# Rhizoclonium / Hair Algae .. again..



## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

Well I've noticed on my substrate again I have some sort of Rhizoclonium starting back up. And its only in the area of my tank where I have some substrate showing. Only a couple more days before it goes to the plants as I have seen before.

I haven't had much luck figuring out what the cause is, I dose according to the Seachem Schedule, I have 2x18W T5 6700K fixture, 15W 6500K T8 Fixture, and a 20W 6500K T12 Fixture that I currently have turned off. Two HOB Whisper Power filters hang on each corner, and right now I am seeding my Magnum C-220 Canister filter so I don't think filtration is an issue. I even have a small powerhead that I use to distribute my CO2 (DIY) throughout the tank. My drop checker is yellow, indicating my CO2 is above 30ppm. Which for all the Algaes I see it mentions low CO2 level...  I have a small outbreak of hair algae which leads me to believe its the same thing on the substrate.. except darker colored. I can't seem to get rid of this Rhizolclonium. It looks like dark green / brown hair algae.

Flourite Substrate, Water levels are in check: Ammonia 0 / NitrIte: 0 / NitrAte:10-20 / Phosphate 1-2


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

I heard it was from a potassium or iron overdose. But I have been dosing the same since I have had the tank, and didn't have any problems when I set it up.

Here are some pictures.


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

No input? 

I thought it was excess iron but I stopped for a week and didn't see an improvement. Even throughly cleaned filters ( kept bio media in tact )


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## zergling (May 16, 2007)

actually IME, I get this when I have K+ deficiency, so I increase K2SO4 dosing -- *well, I use GH booster now instead of K2SO4*.

Are you dosing macros and micros for this tank?

EDIT: saw your thread and you said you use Seachem's line. Try increasing dose of Flourish Potassium, or save yourself lots of money by using dry ferts.

Manually remove all that you can, start/increase dosing of K2SO4 or GH Booster.


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

Thanks for the reply. Yes I dose the full line of Seachem, and yes when I run out I am turning to dry ferts for sure!

I will double(?) the potassium dose and see if I notice a difference and keep everything else the same? Or should I still lay off iron?


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## efish (Apr 23, 2006)

not to jack the thread but is the K/gH booster dosing for the hair algae? I've got a very mild case, but don't want it to continue to grow.

TIA.


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

Well I've been dosing Potassium double and still have the Rhizoclonium accumulating on the bottom substrate and a couple plants.

Any other ideas? I've just been dosing the Seachem schedule to exact measurements..


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## limnidi (May 2, 2007)

I remember reading something about how organic waste accumulation might cause hair algae. You might want to do a thorough gravel vacuuming and do a water change.


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

I've actually done numerous water changes, and throughly vac'd the substrate. The only way to remove the algae, both the Rhizoclonium and Hair Algae - is to brush the leaves with my fingers and then just vac the water and remove the Rhizoclonium from the substrate....


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## FacePlanted (Jul 27, 2007)

I had a case of the rhizo. forming on my substrate when I first set up my aquasoil tank, and have seen other threads where this occurs in newly setup tanks. Is this a new tank? I think mine was caused by a high level of dissolved organics and possibly ammonia, both of which were being leached by the new aquasoil. I'm not sure exactly what got rid of it in my tank, but I did frequent waterchanges, blasted co2, kept up w/ the ferts, and siphoned out whatever I could. Keep everything clean, keep at it, and dont get discouraged. Eventually, after a couple of weeks, the tank stabilized and the rhizo. went away. Maybe even lowering the light intensity would help some.

Either way, good luck!


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

The tank is nearly 3 months old. And I am getting no reading on ammonia or anything. I've kept up with the ferts to the exact measurements, and keep doing water changes however its getting really frustrating as I can't get rid of it. 

I wanted to setup my 55gal but I am having doubts now.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

algae eaters?


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

That doesn't solve the problem, that would only solve it temporarily. I would like to know what the problem is, so that when I setup my 55 I know how to conquer the algae without having to buy more algae eaters.


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## GIO590 (Jun 25, 2007)

Hair algae is pretty easy and cheap to deal with. Just buy about a dozen or so "feeder shrimp" (ghost shrimp). They will gladly eat hair algae and they are cheap and easy to find.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Gundy said:


> I heard it was from a potassium or iron overdose. But I have been dosing the same since I have had the tank, and didn't have any problems when I set it up.


I am speaking from personal experience here. I have only had hair algae once, and I got it from overdosing iron into the tank. I have overdosed potassium for somewhat extended periods of time and it has never led to hair algae (for me).

Currently, I don't dose pure iron into the tank. I just use Flourish micros which has Iron in it. My red plants and green plants alike look fine. 

When I stopped dosing Iron into the tank I stopped gettning new algae, but the old stuff didn't dissappear until I got a couple of ottos.


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## Johnnnn_h (Apr 14, 2007)

That is the algae that started growing in my tank. 
The tank had plants first put in 4 days ago, and I was messing around with some iorn tests and checking out the test kit with some liquid fert concentration I made up. Hit about .15 ppm,,, I guess that is a no no.

And well, I did the same with the phosphate....ops.
I was playing around with a 13 year old Lamotte Phosphate test, used a calculator and dry dosed and the test was dead on,,, wow. 

NO3 is at 10 ppm

I would really like to know what the K is at.


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## oshawa_aaron (Dec 15, 2007)

it cant be the iron cuz i had the same problem and and i was even dosing iron


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

Its back, even after a 5 day blackout thanks to the kansas ice storm that just hit. Turned on my lights for the aquarium and started my dosing regium, and a day later had a huge outbreak. Stopped dosing phosphates and nitrogen.

Clueless....


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

I think you guys are under filtered and suffer from lack of water movement. Increase flow or install a LGPH power head to get more water motion in tank as things looks stagnant there. Add more bio media to your filter if possible or upgrade if that is an option....you can never have too much filtration. 

Neither Potassium or Iron excess causes these algae....as a matter of fact I prolly dose more Iron than all of you put together...we'll maybe not all but you get the drift  and I don't not have algae issues.

Good luck!


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

Lack of filtration?

I've got two 10gal HOB filters for surface movement each packed with ceramic cylinders, and a Magnum C-220 canister stuffed full of bio-stars. Also have a powerhead that i use for additional water movement and to diffuse my CO2. Any more water movement and I will blow the substrate out of my tank.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

> Any more water movement and I will blow the substrate out of my tank.


hahahahaha!! This had me on the floor :hihi:

Did you have 2 HOB from startup?


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

Originally I had planned on using JUST the magnum c-220 canister. But I was seeding the filter along side my 2x10gal HOB filters. 

So yes I had it setup from the get go. Along with the powerhead to diffuse CO2. To be honest, anymore water movement and I really will need a damn trout to swim up stream!


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## Gilmith (Dec 29, 2005)

*Rhizo blues*

I restarted my 100 g tank about 45 days ago and have been fighting the same stuff. I made the mistake of taking a rock from and old tank (dry) that had been covered in it, and adding it to the tank with out cleaning it up too well.

I have broken down and cleaned things 2x's now. It still comes back. Have done excel, bleach, and lights out. 6 SAE's and my 20 +Otto's leave it alone. I have read Amano shrimp love it - but mail order is risky with the weather here. Maybe spring...

CO2 injection has been upped, my water quality is good. Adding ferts daily -added a lot of cheap bunch plants- they are growing great. 

With 4 96w Cf's - everything pearls within an hour or so of the lights clicking on. Photo peroid is down to 6 hours. I have about 1/4 of the rhizo (12 days after a tear down) vs last time.

I'm still playing with co2/light.

*Bottom line* things had been improving but I was not 100% happy- So I added 6 $.99 mollies about 45 minutes ago they are going to town on the Rhizo. I'm going to spot remove as needed and see how they do.
:fish: :fish: :fish:


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Gundy said:


> Originally I had planned on using JUST the magnum c-220 canister. But I was seeding the filter along side my 2x10gal HOB filters.
> 
> So yes I had it setup from the get go. Along with the powerhead to diffuse CO2. To be honest, anymore water movement and I really will need a damn trout to swim up stream!


I t would seem as though flow is prolly too much but your filter HOB's to filter water is still in question. How old is the setup? I


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

Gundy said:


> The tank is nearly 3 months old. And I am getting no reading on ammonia or anything. I've kept up with the ferts to the exact measurements, and keep doing water changes however its getting really frustrating as I can't get rid of it.
> 
> I wanted to setup my 55gal but I am having doubts now.


On first page... now this month would count as 4 months.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

ooops...missed that :hihi:

You seem to have everthing in order but obviously something is being overlooked....good luck in getting tid of it


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## DBenz (Dec 2, 2007)

Take a small piece of the algae out of the water, hold it in front of the tank and light it on fire, so the other crap sees what it's future will be....

Honestly, could it be those old **** fertilizers you got from work? How old were those? Do they go bad? I noticed using some for the salt water tank and they had gummed up and didn't seem effective (dead polyps)


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

Thats what I was thinking, I never did get an answer about that though when I posted on some other board.

I might break down and buy some dry ferts and give that a shot after christmas.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

mrkookm said:


> I think you guys are under filtered and suffer from lack of water movement. Increase flow or install a LGPH power head to get more water motion in tank as things looks stagnant there. Add more bio media to your filter if possible or upgrade if that is an option....you can never have too much filtration.
> 
> Neither Potassium or Iron excess causes these algae....as a matter of fact I prolly dose more Iron than all of you put together...we'll maybe not all but you get the drift  and I don't not have algae issues.
> 
> Good luck!


I disagree. I dosed too much iron into my tank and saw a direct cause and effect result with the algae popping up. Maybe there was something wrong with the Seachem iron mixture, maybe there wasn't. Maybe I dosed so much that it caused the issue, I don't remember.

Unfortuantely I don't have another tank running just for testing purposes or I would try it.


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## mrkookm (Apr 4, 2007)

Biscuit,

how many ppm's do you dose a daily...i?


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

Now? I just use the Flourish micros every other day. 29 gal tank and I am dosing a capful. I haven't used the Seachem Iron since my hair algae outbreak a couple of years ago.

I do admit that I am pretty sure that I dosed too much into my tank. I just don't remember how much that was. Also had another weird issue when I mixed the micros and iron together or dosed them too close together. Got a milky reaction in the water.


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## Gundy (Oct 31, 2007)

The green hair algae has came to a halt, although still there it doesn't look like its getting worse.

As for the Rhizo, well even after a complete re-scape and cleaning of entire tank the crap is back within a day. This is so irritating.


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## shoteh (Nov 13, 2007)

Any updates as I have a bunch as well.


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## ER9 (Aug 2, 2008)

shoteh said:


> Any updates as I have a bunch as well.


yeah i'd love an update as well. iv'e had every algae known and beat them all so far except this one. its overrun my tank as well.


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## manifresh006 (May 8, 2007)

Its has to be too much iron having same problem my self my aquarium was just fine but one single plant had bad leaves breaking and holes in them just added a few ...welll a bunch of iron tabs and the same thing happen to me


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

well I don't dose much iron except for the little in my micros and I have had it for 3 weeks now. The tank is almost 2 months old...no ammonia and the ottos and Amanos aren't touching it.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

mrkookm said:


> I think you guys are under filtered and suffer from lack of water movement. Increase flow or install a LGPH power head to get more water motion in tank as things looks stagnant there. Add more bio media to your filter if possible or upgrade if that is an option....you can never have too much filtration.
> 
> Neither Potassium or Iron excess causes these algae....as a matter of fact I prolly dose more Iron than all of you put together...we'll maybe not all but you get the drift  and I don't not have algae issues.
> 
> Good luck!


Yep, plus, what happens to dosign CO2 without risking gassing fish when the tank is underfiltered/low current? You lack O2, so the fish are more sensitive to CO2.

So more good current to bring O2 to the fish, then adding CO2 should be much easier. Once you manage the light and CO2, then ferts are never an issue as long as they in good supply. Been here, done this decades ago.

Good news is that green hair algae are better than BBA, you are close with the CO2, but not quite there.

Adjust CO2 ........Slow and Carefully upwards, wait and watch, add good current and dose good/frequent water changes. Also, reduce the light intensity some, this should make it easier to manage the CO2 as well.
All the monkey business with ferts.........is meaningless unless you master CO2. You will suffer until you realize this last point.


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## wpgtank (Mar 12, 2010)

This thread has given me much to think about with my persistent hair algae. In light of what you are considering regarding water circulation and oxygen mine is clustered on my vals in the area where my hob filter spills into my tank. 

It occurs where I have the greatest circulation and presumably my highest oxygen or at least a high amount of gas exchange. A lot of food flows through here when I feed so it is a high nutrient area that is also directly below my lights. Pretty good digs for algae.

I also add flourish with my water changes and have flouriite in my substrate so I have iron present but it never read to high in tests - essentially trace amounts.


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## firebird69 (Jan 14, 2011)

My tank is 3 months old, I have a 55 corner tank. My issue has been BBA and hair algae similar to the original poster. I do EI (50% water change each week) and have the CO2 cranked. My filtration is a Eheim 2075 cannister and I have a Korrilla in the tank. So water movement seems good to me. My error in setting this tank up seems to be to much light. Originally I had the (2) 24" Current T5 light units with 2 bulbs per unit sitting on top of tank. After reading Tom's (and others on here) posting about light intensity and CO2 levels, I installed the light legs and raised the CO2 slowly. Basically my drop checker is yellow for 5 of the 10 hours the lights are on. I stayed consistent with this set up for 2 weeks and nothing really changed, algae was all over my java moss, BBA was on misc. plant leaves. So I figured the only thing it could be was to much light, since light drives everything (learned that on this site). I removed one of the light units and finally it seems to have slowed the algae down. I am slowly still upping CO2, but I think that is not the issue with my tank. 
Other details on my tank are its heavily planted, lots of fish, 10 Otto's, 12 Amano shrimp and I run the air at night.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Yeah mines been up for three months now, I've been battling Rhizo like crazy but I think it's on the decline. I've got a ADA 90p with 2 x 39 watt t5ho for 8 hours with a burst of another 2 x 39 watt for 3 hours in the middle of the photo period. The lights are suspended 8-9" from the top of the water. I run pressurized CO2 through an aqua-medic inline reactor which comes on 1 1/2 hours before my lights and off about 1 hour before the lights go out. For filtration I have a Cascade 1000 and an Eheim 2217. I have 2 ottos and 6 amano shrimp. I dose Pfertz Macros and Micros 5 times a week as per their instructions. I do 60% water changes every 5 or so days. I have poured over threads for Rhizo for hours and hours these past few weeks and everyone says the solution to Rhizo is something different. Everything from silicates to iron over doses to lack of maintainance to Co2 tweaking to adding ottos/shrimp to just waiting it out. For me, the only thing I've been doing throughout the whole onset of this crap to it's current decline is doing 2 water changes a week and sucking as much stuff out of the tank as I can each time. If it eventually stops growing completely I will post my victory.


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

No victory yet. I'm resorting to a 3 day blackout. I will post results...


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## Dan the Man (Sep 8, 2009)

Ok...so after a 3 day blackout with a double dose of excel, I took of the trash bags and viola! No yucky brown hair algae!!! Where it was the thickest has greatly shrunk and turned green which I assume to mean dead. My plants look great and I've seen no sign of the dreaded brown Rhizo for 4 days now! My glosso is still not carpeting...can't seem to train it so I'm going to go ahead and let the DHG take over.


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