# In need to an inexpensive substrate solution



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

For my 100 gal tank, I used a covering layer of pea gravel (100 lb ~ $5) and profile underneath (25 lb ~ $15). If I had known that "special kitty" litter looks exactly like profile and doesn't get mushy at all when rinsing I would have thrown some in there (25 lb ~ $2). That would have been the cheapest solution, with a whopping $8 incl tax. Pea gravel is a little on the coarse side, more difficult to plant stem plants. 

I added some local reddish loam to the bottom layer (~10 lbs, free). You could also add laterite, peat, soil or whatever which still keeps it cheap.

The substrate goes gradually up from the front to the back.


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

Thanks for the advice Wasser. I'd like to avoid gravel due to the detritus that gets caught between the pieces, sand would be the route that I'd like to take. But for the lower portion, why would you have used kitty litter instad of profile? I thought kitty litter was an inert material whereas profile is a fertilizer.


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

For inexpensive, I like either a kitty litter/brown sand/gravel mix or black silica sand/potting soil. It's harder to find black silica sand, but I shopped around at a few Local Fish Stores before finding a store selling it for $9.99 for a 20lb bag. 
Some landscaping yards also sell black sand to mix in for paving bricks.


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

OK, I'll have to find some landscaping places around here. Surprisingly, my local Home Depot doesn't sell the run-of-the-mill playsand. They sell a crushed marble sand that's blinding white and, surprisingly, quite sharp looting.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

aeternum23 said:


> Thanks for the advice Wasser. I'd like to avoid gravel due to the detritus that gets caught between the pieces, sand would be the route that I'd like to take. But for the lower portion, why would you have used kitty litter instad of profile? I thought kitty litter was an inert material whereas profile is a fertilizer.


Detritus = Plant food???

I read a scientific comparison of different substrates, I don't recall the link anymore, maybe someone has it somewhere. It was showing a chemical analysis and surprisingly Kitty Litter had some amazing amounts of nutrients, if I recall correctly it contained more iron than flourite :lol: but of course the problem is that there are many different kitty piss absorbents out there and you don't know exactly what you get. But the one they tested is very similar to laterite, and has a good CEC which to me is even more important than a certain level of a certain micro nutrient which is exhausted after whoknows how long.

In some sense profile is more inert than kitty litter, definitely not a fertilizer.

For my brand new 10 gal mountain-scape I bought some pitch-black substrate at my LFS, very sharp, almost like broken glass. I hope it is inert... of course, it was cheap too... 60 cents per pound. Underneath of course, kitty litter :wink:


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Heh.. I'm still a "dirt" advocate.. I'm watching my 90 gallon develop more and more every day and I am thrilled. Now, I'm a lazy SOB and havent done any pruning in FOREVER in that tank so the old leaves are looking ratty....

Regardless.. Many "alternative" substrates like KL and Soil are very effective...


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Chelated Iron is what is needed, not all Iron is useful. Just because the package on Kitty Poop Destinker says it has Iron dont make it useful to the plants...

If that were the case then why not just drop a couple pieces of rebar in the substrate or even common 16D nails... :roll: 

There is a reason that the "quality" substrates comes with a price tag fella's... my suggestion would be to wait till you have the money stuck away to do it the way you will want it done. Especially on a large tank like a 100 gallon. :shock: 

When the plants are not doing what you expect you will be posting again very soon saying " I dont understand what is happening, why dont my plants look like that" ?

The 2 things that you do not cut corners on in a planted tank are *Lighting* and *Substrate*... unless you want to grow java moss and J. Ferns then its no big deal... :wink: 

Just my 2 cents.


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

Wasser - Detritus as in uneaten food, solid fish waste, etc. Sometimes the stuff gets stuck under the gravel pieces and it becomes a nitrate factory. Not to mention that larger pieces usually can and do become laden w/ mold...yeach.

GDominy - I would love to use dirt, i.e. very fine sand from a river. The only thing is, here in Southern California, pretty much ever river, creek, pool, is contaminated


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

I felt the same way about soil till I broke down my nano 2 months ago and saw what was happening "behind the scenes".... :shock:


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## GDominy (Jul 30, 2002)

Buck I tore down my nano last week after running it for as long as my 90 gallon (I wanted a comparison) and I had no problems like you had described. I suspect a lot of it comes down to the actual composition of the soil being used (organic compounds, particle density, etc).

Don't forget that I make a mix of Vermiculite and Soil to prevent anearobic pockets from forming... My soils stay light and uncompressed. With the vermiculite mix I can actually compress the substrate, and it will puff back up into place like a sponge.


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## HawkEye_Pierce (Sep 28, 2003)

If I remember correctly I read on another forum that places like Home Depot and Lowes carry something called Aquatic Soil by Scott's (not all of there stores carry it and it's not in thier online database) but it's $7 dollars/bag (I believe 25lb)...worth a look


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

aeternum23 said:


> Wasser - Detritus as in uneaten food, solid fish waste, etc. Sometimes the stuff gets stuck under the gravel pieces and it becomes a nitrate factory. Not to mention that larger pieces usually can and do become laden w/ mold...yeach.


There is no uneaten food in my tank... sounds weird, but no. Solid fish waste... great. Nitrate factory... I love it! I have to throw a bunch of chemicals into my tank each week because my NO3 keeps slipping down to zero! Larger pieces... that fit in between the gravel? Dead fish? Sword leaves? Nope. I do some vacuuming every week, but not really religiously and not too close to larger plants. To me, fish poop is good. Maybe with a more heavily stocked tank it is different.

Hawk, in HD there is an Aquatic Soil by Schultz which is really the same as Profile, for $7 per 10 lbs.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

The next time I try the soil Gareth it will be a thin layer at the bottom covered by another substrate...but that is the particular soil I used straight from a pond bottom. I have never tried any of the commercial soils as of yet...


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

The way I see it the plants thrive in an "iron" enriched substrate and the "nutrients" in the substrate... the iron I have no control over with soil nor can I really test for it... but I can always add the nutrients easily...

At least with Flourite and Eco-Comp, you know you are Iron enriched and have a steady base to work with.

I would only suggest trying soil to a very experienced aqua-gardener, not anyone like myself... :lol: I couldnt believe what I was seeing in that soil and the smell ! :roll: 

But the plants loved it !


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

Ok gotta chime in on this one....

I am running 3 tanks...100 gallon with flourite and gravel; 15 gallon with sand and Schultz aquatic plant soil; and 10 gallon with peat, kitty litter, and playsand.

As far as roots go the 10 gallon is doing the best with TONS of em. 

As far as plant health goes...all are doing equally well.

As far as EASE of replanting....the 15 gallon and the 100 gallon are the easiest.

The "cheapo" kitty litter mixture 10 gallon is a PAIN IN THE ARSE to move plants around...they do great but the roots and the fine substrate just make the water a mess...which means water change galore and unsightly sand top!

Just my observations though....

Mike  

PS if you like moving plants alot I would stick with the gravel, sand, flourite, schultz, and the others recommended...just makes the job that much easier.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

It seems to me that if I take the same plant in two different tanks with two different substrates and that in one tank the plant grows a huge root system and that will everything else being equal, it shows me that the substrate with the huge root system is actually poorer in nutrients.


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

Last night I vacuumed my quarintine tank, the substrate is Schultz aquatic plant soil. The stuff is so light, that a good deal of it went right up the siphon. I'm also using this in a 10 gallon and a 20 gallon which I never vacuum so not problems there. I'm not sure I'd recommend this substrate to anyone who likes to keep the bottom supurbly clean.


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

I think I'll give the gravel on top of Schultz a try. Would 1.5" of Schultz beneath 1" of gravel be all right?


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

That should work great. the schults is a reddish tan color though, it may look odd when it gets on top of the gravel. It might look better if you just mixed the 2 together.


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

Hmmmm...reddish brown, eh? I'll try to find a gravel mix that fits it. BTW Buck, what was it that grossed you out when you tore down the nano?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

In mixed substrates that are vacuumed/moved, there is a tendency of finer particles to move downward, and coarser ones to come to the surface.

I am using fairly coarse pea gravel over Schultz/Profile or KL. Even though the Profile is lighter and gets sucked up a little when cleaning or replanting, there isn't any visible on the surface of my substrate, because it just moves down again, and the gravel stays on top.

So mixing or finding a matching color might not be an issue, depending on the grade of your gravel.

I am with Buck re using soil... I did that for my water lilies, and when I took them out after a few months... eeewwww. No organic substrates for me...


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

LOL, what happened with the soil? When I pulled it out of my 29, it just smelled pretty bad. Was that the problem?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Yeah. H2S. :aah:


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

Ahhh. Well, except for the horrid and nauseating smell of H2S, soil is ok.


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## orktank (Dec 17, 2009)

*cloudy tank*



GDominy said:


> Heh.. I'm still a "dirt" advocate.. I'm watching my 90 gallon develop more and more every day and I am thrilled. Now, I'm a lazy SOB and havent done any pruning in FOREVER in that tank so the old leaves are looking ratty....
> 
> Regardless.. Many "alternative" substrates like KL and Soil are very effective...


have just begun a tank with thr KL, what a mess! is it supposed to be so cloudy, the water, when you start up a new planted aquarium? Is laterite a better medium than the kitty litter??:icon_eek:


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## kid creole (Dec 25, 2008)

You're doing the right thing by searching, and you are to be commended, but this is a really old thread. If you found this thread because you were looking for kitty litter or cheap substrate, there is more up to date info available here.

I also recommend you check out the terms MTS (mineralized top soil) and Turface (a brand name of a gravel used on baseball fields).


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Nothing is wrong with using soils, clays etc.
Roots should add plenty of O2 to those soils, provided there's not too much organic matter.

Worm castings using the method described by Vladimer works well, same for the MTS, but I prefer to use less rich non nursery bought soil, mostly froma nice river, delta area where aquatic plants are present, not everyone has such access, but many sure do.

You can boil the soil, rinse it, allow it to sit in a shallow pan of water for a few weeks prior to use. This oxidizes the organic matter and converts a lot of the NH4 to NO3 which is rinsed away/does not bind.

You can also dilute the soil sediment by adding 3; parts sand to 1 part soil, this reduces the % organic matter and also allows a bit more circulation before the plant roots start really growing in.

Obviously if light, CO2, and other dosing of nutrients are not addressed, the plant will not produce much roots, and you end up with stinky soil.

So a holistic approach should be used and chose plants that typically produce strong root systems. You may also add only a 1/4-1/2 layer of soil under the sand etc, instead of more typical 1" or more layers.




Regards, 
Tom Barr


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