# Ferts for Low Tech Aquarium?



## Daisy Mae (Jun 21, 2015)

There's certainly lots of options for these, from purchased to DIY. 

I went with purchased, just because I wanted to start with a small amount and my tanks are small. Fluorish comprehensive drops after a water change, and Fluorish root tabs for my gravel/sand tanks. 

I could definitely tell the root tabs made a difference. 

Other people use Osmocote plus put into gelcaps as root tabs. 
There's also dry fert options that you mix yourself into water, much cheaper than buying liquid ferts esp with larger tanks. Apparently there's a forum member who sells them, *nilocg*.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

For a low tech tank, something simple like tablets under the substrate are good. In a gravel substrate, I would go with very few of them, and make sure they are all the way to the bottom. Then monitor the water. Tablets tend to release their fertilizer faster with more water movement, and gravel allows a lot more water movement than finer substrates.
Osmocote or similar product could be used. Not very many, and watch for ammonia.


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## niza (Aug 28, 2015)

Purchased ferts can get expensive, it depends how big your tank is. 

Root tabs are great unless you have a carpet in which case it will make it difficult to insert the tabs into the substrate without ruining the carpet. Also, I have seen and read about people using root tabs and the plants still got nutrient deficiencies. 

I have a low tech 10G. I decided to use the EI method, dosing 1/4 of the recommended dose + Flourish every other day or so. I will start on Sunday.


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## Clear Water (Sep 20, 2014)

It really more about what plants you have in the tank. Swords will benefit from root tabs and probably won't grow without them. Bunch plants or floating plants will need a liquid fertilizer. One thing to note is how much fish load you have, they add fertilizer to. For me I am at the low end and only add liquid fertilizer once a week and at about half of what the manufacture calls for. I still get some algae but it not out of control.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Your Tank*

Hello Naz...

You don't need to use commercial fertilizers. You have three natural sources, the dissolved fish waste, the dissolved food the fish doesn't eat and changing half the tank water every few days. This combination provides nutrients and maintains high mineral levels for your plants.

You'll save money and time not dosing the ferts and one less step to remember.

Pretty easy.

B


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## niza (Aug 28, 2015)

I have tried this and my plants are showing sings of deficiencies...leafs turning yellow and brown, holes in the leafs, leafs dropping etc...I have a 10G with 3 mollies. Maybe I should add some more fish?




BBradbury said:


> Hello Naz...
> 
> You don't need to use commercial fertilizers. You have three natural sources, the dissolved fish waste, the dissolved food the fish doesn't eat and changing half the tank water every few days. This combination provides nutrients and maintains high mineral levels for your plants.
> 
> ...


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Your Plants*

Hello niz...

A few Mollies in a 10 G will provide enough natural fertilizer. Just feed them a balanced diet of flakes, freeze dried and frozen foods. And, change half the tank water about every 3 to 4 days.

Have you checked the light requirements for your plants? Lighting is the most important thing for plant growth. It's their energy source. If you're using the light that came with the tank, then you'll need to improve on it.

Florescent lighting is simple, inexpensive and effective. Check the watts and make an effort to increase the watts to at least 20 for a 10 gallon tank.

Keep working. You'll get it. Think seriously about a larger tank. At least 30 gallons. Larger tanks are easier to keep and your Mollies will appreciate the bigger home, especially at breeding time.

B


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## niza (Aug 28, 2015)

Thanks for the advice. I have 26 wpg (2 cfo bulbs). Plants are amazon sword, ludwigia, s. repens and dwarf hairgrass. I am a bit impatient so I will start dosing 1/4 EI recommended dose once a week. Hopefully this will make my plants look better


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## Nazasaki (Sep 10, 2015)

The plants I have in my tank are anubias and marimo balls. The only fish I have is a betta, with two nerite snails. So just skip the ferts?


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## Jcstank (Jan 3, 2015)

Nazasaki said:


> I just started my first planted tank for my betta and his two nerite snail friends. I'm doing a low tech setup. Basic gravel, hardy low light plants, no CO2, etc. What fertilizers, if any, should I be using? Tablets? A liquid? What have you used with success?


I got the dry fertilizers from nilocg and dose 1/3 EI with Excel and my plants are so successfully growing well that I will never change this. I've tried many many other methods with liquid fertilizers and nothing even comes as close as good as this.


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## BBradbury (Nov 8, 2010)

*Your Tank*



Nazasaki said:


> The plants I have in my tank are anubias and marimo balls. The only fish I have is a betta, with two nerite snails. So just skip the ferts?


Hello again Naz...

Yes. I'd say skip the ferts. The moss ball and other very slow growing plants will be fine. Feed your fish well and make sure to remove and replace at least half the tank water every few days. Water that stays in the tank too long does a poor job of keeping the fish and plants healthy.

B


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## Casxl (Jul 20, 2015)

How big of a tank and how many more plants are you going to add? I personally wouldn't change 50% of the water every few days, partly cause I'm lazy and I've been EI dosing lately. Even when I wasn't I found 20-30% once a week was fine.


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## niza (Aug 28, 2015)

I am going to start EI dosing. Aren't you supposed to do a 50% water every week with EI dosing to remove the excess nutrients?




Casxl said:


> How big of a tank and how many more plants are you going to add? I personally wouldn't change 50% of the water every few days, partly cause I'm lazy and I've been EI dosing lately. Even when I wasn't I found 20-30% once a week was fine.


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## turbosaurus (Nov 19, 2005)

BBradbury said:


> Hello again Naz...
> 
> Yes. I'd say skip the ferts. The moss ball and other very slow growing plants will be fine. Feed your fish well and make sure to remove and replace at least half the tank water every few days. Water that stays in the tank too long does a poor job of keeping the fish and plants healthy.
> 
> B


50% water change every couple days? on a 10 gallon with 3 mollies?? :hihi:
That's going to give your plants all the nitrate and phosphate they need? Preposterous. 


you can do 50% once every 2-4 weeks if you're feeding them reasonably.

None of your plants need anything special, they're all slow growers, and its more than likely you don't have enough light for them to take up more fertilizers, you would just be gunking up your water for no reason. What type of lighting do you have?


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Fish food is low in potassium, iron and calcium. Also a bit low in magnesium, but plants use less, so fish food usually is enough. 
It does not matter if the fish have eaten it and produced ammonia, CO2 and solid waste (which is then decomposed by microorganisms into its component minerals) 
... or if the food falls to the floor of the tank and is decomposed by microorganisms, producing ammonia, CO2 and other minerals. 

In a low tech tank, at a certain level of light, and depending on the plants, the first deficiencies that will show up are K, Fe, and C. You can supply K and Fe with fertilizer tablets. You can supply C with Excel, or a yeast and sugar DIY system. 
Calcium and perhaps magnesium deficiencies can be averted with water changes with water that has GH>3 degrees. 

There is a low level of K, Fe, Ca, and C in fish food. Very slow growing plants in the lowest possible light that will still grow the plant should not show a deficiency. 

In most tanks, though, even slow growing plants will show K deficiency. (most common symptom is holes in leaves). 
Tap water rarely has potassium. Water changes will not help. 

Best way to handle a low tech tank is to supply the nutrients that are in shortest supply. (K, Fe from fertilizers. Ca from water. Carbon from Excel or similar)

If some other problem shows up, figure it out. 
For example, tap water might not have the right minerals. Very soft water might have a GH under 3 degrees, so the supply of Ca and Mg might not be there. Or, the GH of the water might be from a high level of just one mineral, either Ca or Mg, and the other is missing.

As you add more light to a system the plants will need more of all the elements. 
They will start showing deficiencies of whatever is in shortest supply. When you correct that deficiency the plants will then grow to the limits of some other element, and show a deficiency in that one. 
To avoid most of this it is better simply to supply all the nutrients that plants need. They do not use fertilizers very fast when the light is low, so slow release tablets in the substrate will supply the ferts in enough quantity for a low tech tank.


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## Maverick2015 (Aug 8, 2015)

Dry dose using EI method. It is simple and very inexpensive. You can get away with dosing once or twice a week (do macros and micros different days so really 2 or 4 days a week). You can do water changes every weekly, every other week, or monthly depending on your dosing and desires.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

I only have low light, low tech, low maintenance tanks and find that Crypts, java ferns, anubias, bolbitis, and subwassertang flourish in my tanks. I have had some luck with mosses and lower light stem plants but this success has varied heavily depending on where I was living, must have been something in the water. Floaters (duckweed and the like) always do well too if you like them. 

Anyway, this is what I do and for the past 8 or so years I have had lots of growth in my tanks:

For "fertilizer" I depend mostly on the fish, I tend to slightly overstock. In addition, I do use root tabs, they help the crypts enormously, and do seem to make a difference for the anubias, bolbitis, and java ferns as well, all will grow their roots into the substrate eventually. Finally, I use air stones (or bubble walls) in all of my tanks, I am not sure why, but it makes a huge difference (when they stop working or I haven't put one in those tanks haven't done as well) the best I can figure is that it helps maintain the levels of CO2 at atmospheric levels so there is a consistent (though low) supply of CO2 for the plants. 

Hope that helps!!!


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## Caliban07 (Aug 19, 2015)

Personally (if it's not too much of a pain) I would look at swapping out the gravel for a better substrate, preferably soil, then cap over it with the gravel. That would eliminate the need to add tablets (which can provide unpredictable release if not located properly) and column fertilisers. The fish and fish food would then do a better job at complimenting the substrate fertiliser and you can do less water changes. Increasing light intensity when plants show mineral deficiencies is only going to make things worse. The soil will also help provide much needed carbon and the soil microorganisms will help break down any organic matter to further provide carbon. I also recommend a siesta period during they say to allow carbon levels to replenish through fish and bacterial respiration. This would lessen the burden on the soil. This way you should have all elements covered to grant low tech success.

I've just set up a mineralises soil substrate capped with gravel. I added red clay and powered coral in with the soil mainly to help with cation exchange. Looking forward to seeing the results.


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## rragan (Jun 2, 2015)

Maverick2015 said:


> Dry dose using EI method. It is simple and very inexpensive. You can get away with dosing once or twice a week (do macros and micros different days so really 2 or 4 days a week). You can do water changes every weekly, every other week, or monthly depending on your dosing and desires.


Agreed, This is a very cheap method and makes plants thrive, and keeps away a lot of algae. depending on size of tank, 1 order (around $20-$30) of the essential dry ferts could last maybe a year or more.


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## Maverick2015 (Aug 8, 2015)

rragan said:


> Agreed, This is a very cheap method and makes plants thrive, and keeps away a lot of algae. depending on size of tank, 1 order (around $20-$30) of the essential dry ferts could last maybe a year or more.


Yeah, I was surprised at how long the ferts would last in low tech setups. I don't know why anyone would bother with the premade stuff. I can understand making your own solution if you had dosing pumps, but even that would be better done with dry ferts. But spooning in dry ferts is very easy and seems to be working well.


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## turbosaurus (Nov 19, 2005)

DO NOT EI your tank. It is a total waste of your money and more importantly your time and energy. You do not need to change your substrate. 

Your limiting factor is light. If you increased your light, your limiting factor would be CO2- what I mean by this is that each plant will have a similar formula- x amount of light + x amount of carbon + smaller specific amounts of nitrogen, phosphate, potassium and minerals (micros)- this recipe has to be exactly right, and the least common denominator will be your limiting factor. If there is no more light, your plants can't use more phosphate or minerals- 

Its like making waffles. Your recipe calls for 2 eggs, and you only have one. Eggs are your limiting factor- adding more of everything else will not make up for the missing egg, you're just gonna have to have half as many waffles (in this case plant growth) or throw in more of everything else and have a complete Eff-up on your hands. 

You're bubble wand makes a difference becasue it increases water flow and therefor exchange of gasses and nutrients on leaf surfaces- just like in a human body blood flow is necessary for healthy cells. It "makes sense" to assume pumping atmospheric air into the tank would replace CO2 your plants use to atmospheric levels, but it doesn't. Carbon dioxide and Oxygen do not dissolve at the same rate in water- there's a very different chemistry under water than above.


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## Caliban07 (Aug 19, 2015)

turbosaurus said:


> DO NOT EI your tank. It is a total waste of your money and more importantly your time and energy. You do not need to change your substrate.
> 
> Your limiting factor is light. If you increased your light, your limiting factor would be CO2- what I mean by this is that each plant will have a similar formula- x amount of light + x amount of carbon + smaller specific amounts of nitrogen, phosphate, potassium and minerals (micros)- this recipe has to be exactly right, and the least common denominator will be your limiting factor. If there is no more light, your plants can't use more phosphate or minerals-
> 
> ...


The op asked for fertilisation recommendations. Why are you talking about eggs and waffles?


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## turbosaurus (Nov 19, 2005)

so I could dumb it down enough so someone who thinks plants get carbon from dirt could understand.


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## Jonas (Nov 30, 2011)

Jcstank said:


> I got the dry fertilizers from nilocg and dose 1/3 EI with Excel and my plants are so successfully growing well that I will never change this. I've tried many many other methods with liquid fertilizers and nothing even comes as close as good as this.


Can you give me some details on this? what size tank with what light? how much NPK do you add? big or small waterchanges etc etc.


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## Caliban07 (Aug 19, 2015)

turbosaurus said:


> so I could dumb it down enough so someone who thinks plants get carbon from dirt could understand.


Jesus. I had to read through some of your other posts to confirm you can be obnoxious 90% of the time so I won't take offence. I guess Diana Walstads might though. Her work is flawed now someone who goes by the name turbosaurus has called her out. All that work she put in to her book, ecology of the planted aquarium, for nothing.....


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## turbosaurus (Nov 19, 2005)

Jonas said:


> Can you give me some details on this? what size tank with what light? how much NPK do you add? big or small waterchanges etc etc


EI is short for Estimative Index, Its very popular in the hobby and, in fairness, has survived at least 10 years of scrutiny. Its so popular there are a ton of results if you look up "EI calculator" that will do the math for you based on tank size. The one thing that is constant with EI is you must do weekly water changes. 

In short, the idea is, although each plant has its own specific recipe, its own ratio of nutrients it will need that varies based on density, photoperiod, etc, BUT you'll never figure it out exactly (and there is no point in trying). So make sure every element your plants need are always sufficient by making sure they're always in excess, a REASONABLE excess, that won't harm your tank and is dosed every day, alternating sets (macros and micros) on alternating days in a one size fits all basis. Any excess gets 'reset' via weekly 50% water changes (if you do the math its an exponential curve, it doesn't really work out- but Im getting too specific).

You dose every day and you remove once a week- the w/c is mandatory. Its downfall is that its pretty labor intensive. 

Since, in a low tech tank, your limiting factors will be light and CO2, EI will have you making a large effort to add things then remove them 6,5,4,3,2,1, days later- but why? Whats the point? EI is to insure your nutrients are not your limiting factor.. I can tell you that in this tank, CO2 and light will limit you. There will probably be eventual potassium and micro deficiencies, but I assure you they do not require daily dosing and weekly water changes to avoid, let it happen, if they do, then come back and we'll help you address them.

As for my attitude, Im here to share my 10+ years w 5-15 display tanks at a time; low tech to everything on it. I was once a rookie and I'd like to slap every dope who read 3 posts and had 10 days in the hobby who sent me running in the wrong direction with nothing but hubris to back them up. There were may times I wish someone would have stepped up and saved me from stupid.


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## Jonas (Nov 30, 2011)

turbosaurus said:


> Jonas said:
> 
> 
> > Can you give me some details on this? what size tank with what light? how much NPK do you add? big or small waterchanges etc etc
> ...


Hoooold up.
I know what The Estimative Index is.

I just wanted to know his/her specific dosing schedule, tank details etc.

But hey! Thanks for explaining it, if I did not know what it was already you would have helped me alot.


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## Maverick2015 (Aug 8, 2015)

EI for low tech is different that for high tech. If you dose the high tech amounts then you will be wasting money. But dry ferts are pretty cheap anyway. I think the problem with the criticism of EI above is that they don't take into account the changes made for low tech. You can dose once a week, or twice a week (separate days for macro and micro though), etc. Even water changes can be done less often in low tech if preferred depending on your dosing schedule and needs. It can be tweaked a bit more than in high tech systems.


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