# 55G on a budget



## KurtG (Dec 10, 2007)

Good Start. I think you will need to go ahead and overdrive your lights 2x to get enough output for your tank. What other plants do you have coming in?


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## da1001 (Jan 9, 2008)

Good luck! I really like the little stump with the moss on top, but are you going to keep those pots in there? I think they detract from it all imo. Also, make sure to get a bunch more plants in there in order to keep algae down. And with 68 watts of lighting, you might need just a little more. Maybe a cheap 24 watt tossed over it somewhere? That would get you to around 1.5 wpg. Cheers!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

If you're sticking with low light plants I think you'll be OK since you say you've got good reflectors. If you have room in your canopy one more bulb wouldn't hurt, though.

Prime only locks up ammonia for 24 hours; after that it's released back into its toxic form. 

Continually dosing Prime isn't your answer- a new tank will produce tons of ammonia until the N-bacteria colony have established and are able to convert it all into nitrites and then nitrates.

How are you cycling this tank? I'd encourage you to do a fishless cycle before adding any fish. Personally, I'd put your current Endler back into the 10gal until this tank is safe, in an uncycled tank you're risking it's life ATM.

Here's an article on fishless cycling in case it's helpful:

http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article14.html


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## markopolo (Jun 2, 2008)

are those pipes in the last two pics little caves that you can see into? if so thats an awesome idea! :icon_bigg


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

markopolo said:


> are those pipes in the last two pics little caves that you can see into? if so thats an awesome idea! :icon_bigg


Yes indeed!! Many of the fish I was looking into seem to like caves/hiding spots to spawn, Mainly *Tateurndina ocellicauda - Peacock Goby.

*Anyway I was planning on a silent cycle, but I added this Endler before I tested my water. He has been in there for over 1 week and acting normal, but my ammonia reads 4.0ppm+ like I said I'm still confused on the source(hope to do a large WC and some investigation today).

I dont care for the clay pots either, with my substrate they kind of blend in , I'm hoping I can leave them and have plants grow to cover them.

I'm just a noob so I'm already getting green fuzz algae on the driftwood so I'm worried about adding more light. I'm going to pickup a ballast and my soldering iron now to ODNO.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You'll have to absolutely stuff that tank with plants to get a silent cycle- probably about 10-20x what you have in there right now, and you've got hardly any stem plants at all. Stems are the quick-growing nutrient hogs that you need to try for a Silent Cycle.

Did you pull over mulm from your other tank? That would also help.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

No mulm, just got the plants today, mostly stem that filled the 55G and 10G.

By silent cycle I mean put 1 fish at a time in the tank. Then wait 2 weeks and add another. For now just using male endlers that I have. I dont think I have to stuff it full to support 1 Endler at a time. Anyway its stuffed right now so doesn't matter.

I'm modding the light right now to 2x ODNO


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## jerrybforl (Aug 19, 2008)

well its nice to see your getting into the hobby. for starters what are the plants you are getting? second how many? if you dont have a lot you should be ok with the CO2 level but if you have a lot need some CO2 in there as the plants will die off. also if you have low light plants your ok as well. but if you have plants that require bright lighting your way off and need between 2 and 3 watts for about 10-12 hours a day. make sure to keep phosphates down as this will make the algae grow. anymore questions just ask.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Ok some new pics, the camera sucks(maybe the operator also), Most of these plants are not settled as I just moved/trimed many. Also a couple I'm not sure they like the hard water or I dont have enough light, only time will tell. They came from higher lighting and Co2 tank so they also need time to get used to the new situation.


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## BichirAddict (Aug 19, 2008)

Looking good but, the fake stump is killing I think


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## Kolkri (Dec 9, 2006)

Wow looks great. When do you plan to add the fish? I really like the fake stump. When the moss grows it well be very cool looking.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Well not for a couple weeks. So far I had lots of ammonia from some source which logically must be from the Schults substrate. So I added filter media from my 10G. Currently My ammonia is down to 0 or .25(test kit has been funky for me since shortly after I got it), been there for 2 days and my Nitrite is pegged off the chart also. Nitrate is 10 but I did dose some at the start. I double dosed Prime and did a couple large water changes in the mean time, the single male endler is still doing just fine, he likes to play in the current but still does his up and down the glass routine. I also made the decission to go with Excel on this tank with moderate dosing, then I'll have some extra to spot treat algae issues.

So I'm waiting for the plants to settle and the water to even out. Then I'll go for some fish. Still not sure what to get 1st. I'm thinking about adding some RCS when the water is in check, then some Oto's, then some Peacock Gudgeons. 

All of these will be added slowly. I's still not sure what other fish I want to get. Either some small rainbows or another schooling fish, then Either some Bosemian Rainbows or Angels. Too many choices, lol.

Oh theres also 1 small snail in there now as it came w/ the new plants, I'm told it should be a ramshorn and I found 1 in my 10G also. I plan to let them do there thing as last time I got some snails I easily defeated them in a couple weeks in my 10G. I also thought about getting some larger colorful snails for this tank but not sure as I did consider getting loaches of some kind also, again too many choices.

So far I've been growing green hair algae on the driftwood and since its in the middle w/ good lighting that stuff is pearling like crazy all day every day, lol. Thats why I moved that red tiger lotus over there to hopefully shade it. I need to get this water in check and get some Otos in there and the shrimp to eat some but it doesn't bother me as it looks natural.


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## CaffeinatedCake (Jun 19, 2008)

Looking nice !

I recently used Schultz AS and I didn't get a spike, but then again that tank has a filter going that's been running for months in my community tank before I changed it to a planted tank, so I guess that's why I didn't get a spike..

I think a medium sized school of fish [or two different schools] always look really great in larger tanks :].

Either way good luck and keep us posted .


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Hey CaffeinatedCake, did your Schults have small blue round capsules in it? Mines does and I squeezed a couple so I think it may have saturated the water column instead of being more of a time release .

Anyway I thought I would also post pics of this shoplight I'm using b/c its the best one I've seen as far as reflectors go, LMK what you think I'd say its a good average reflector.


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## CaffeinatedCake (Jun 19, 2008)

Actually I've only seen one little blue thing that came in my AS, But I wasn't paying all that much attention to it while filling up my tank, but it's sitting atop all the other AS at the moment.

Are you having trouble keeping your plants .. planted?

It took me a few tries to keep mine grounded >_< Shultz AS is so light, lol. I'm definitely going with something different in my upcoming 20g @[email protected];.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Yeah the Schultz is light, its hard to replant things with the water moving, but not bad at all. It should get heavier after awhile of being in the tank.


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## BichirAddict (Aug 19, 2008)

I would change the blue background to a black one.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

BichirAddict said:


> I would change the blue background to a black one.


yes...
it looks cheesy.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Well I had a massive algae outbreak, the frustrating one was *Rhizoclonium. *But I also had some BBA from plants that came from my 10G and GBA/thread/hair algae. I resisted many pleas to switch to CO2, as I want to work through my issues and learn.

I started using Excel on 8/28, it deff kills BBA especially using spot treatment. Mainly I have been doing 2x daily dosing but 1/2 of that was spot dosing. I plan to continue using Excel for awhile(have 2 liters) but in a yr or so i may try to ween off it.

I think the algae came from a combination of things, like getting plants from a CO2 tank and having high ammonia, then I did not dose enough N at 1st. I also have found that I have high phosphates in my tap so I have not been dosing that currently. Also I did large water changes w/o letting the water off gas which in my limited experience causes the BBA to emerge. I had added a couple root tabs, then replanted a couple times and think that they got dissoleved and distributed around the tank possibly adding to the issue?

Anyway I believe after some work on my part of cleaning, then reducing light intensity by raising ~3"(15-20% reduction in wpg) and reducing the lighting period to 6hrs for a week, getting my dosing on track, I am finally seeing light at the end of the tunnel. I also did a couple swaps, taking plants that had algae and putting them in my 10G for a couple days, where the RCS would clean them good, then replanted in the 55G. I then bumped the lighting back to 8hrs after reading some smart people talk about limiting intensity instead of period to keep the plants happy.


I also modded my Fluval 304 to use 3/4" smooth hose on the inlet side. I took the hint from Eheim(and some parts) and my mechanical knowledge. I used the Eheim inlet for 400594 tubing and a Filter Max III sponge pre-filter. Basically the pump is gravity/siphon feed so the larger the inlet, you get slightly more flow(kinda like ram air on a car, not really), more like using a gravel vac with larger dia hose, flows more water and pumps like to push fluid rather then pull. Also the ribbed tubing is known to clog fast and the added surface roughness reduces flow. After the mod I can now move the outlet back into the very corner and slightly lower and get a good circular motion(before if would become stagnate in the far end after a couple hours, so I had to move it out of the corner a couple inches).

I plan to replace the outlet side also with 5/8" smooth hose and a new outlet, actually have the Eheim outlet for "400594" but it was not available in "wide outlet" like the smaller one is, so I'm not sure how well it will work? I really considered using 1/2" tubing and that wide eheim outlet but decided to stick w/ 5/8" hose. I dont have suction cups for it so I will buy those and also a different outlet setup in case I dont like it. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10090+14680&pcatid=14680

With these mods(including reduced angle on the over the rim parts) I should get better flow and still keep the fabulous 12w power consumption. I hope its enough(when the plants fill in) but if not then I will be getting Koralia Nano(or 1, but think that will be too much? and larger) and changing the outlet placement. That should be plenty of flow and keep me below the 25w power consumption of the 404 and Eheim pumps with more flow:thumbsup:.

The current stocking is:
5 Oto's
5 baby BN Plecos(largest is 1"), eventually I will just have 1, but may try breeding them 1st?
3 Male Endlers
5 RCS
5 Blue Apple snails, and a couple ramshorn.

I have lots of algae eaters and they are doing a great job, so I have now put the lights back directly on top of the tank(8hrs). I will leave it this way for 2 weeks and watch, then hopefully raise the lighting period gradually.

I am trying to get a hold of some more fish. I really would like to wait a bit for the RCS population to grow and let the plants grow so I can rescape more final(as now they are all over the place), but with colder weather coming up I think I want them before winter for shipping reasons. Anyway if I can get some Peacock Gudgeons soon I will get them(5) and locally there is a breeder for Bosemani Rainbow's so I may pickup 6 of those also.


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

Hey, tank's looking great! I see you abandoned your very slow stocking plan though? Just make sure you keep an extra close eye on Ammonia and nitrIte levels then, but it sounds like you're on top of that kind of thing. As for your snails though, be careful and keep a close eye on the "apple snails" there are a couple different kinds of snail sold as "apple" or "mystery" snails and some of them are definitely plant eaters, so keep an eye on your plants for signs of damage due to eating. I had that problem, so i know, and after researching learned it's a common issue. Just thought I'd pass on the info. 

Can't wait to see updated tank shots and those peacock gudgeons, I've been thinking about getting some if I can get my hands on them.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Yeah these snails are Brigs


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Ok thought I would update, I have been adding more RCS every week or so. My center brace broke so I got a new top frame and replaced it. So the water was 1/2 for like 2 weeks during that process. The fish seemed stressed during that time, I know some crap dropped in the tank during the removal of the old silicone/frame so I was hoping I didnt have a massive die off. Any way the algae is all gone now and things are looking better. The tank seems to be maturing in that aspect.

I did have 1 Oto die and another that that had a red budging belly. So far the redness is going away and its looking better, but the fish is still a little timid. I saw only 2 BN plecos after the repair was complete, now I am not seeing any, they didnt see realy active like the Otos but I still could spot most of them, so not sure, I have not seen one for the last 3 days or so.

I got 6 new Bosemani Rainbows yesterday and they are nice and active. They color'd up some yesterday and more today. 

So the stocking as of now is:
5 Male Endlers(all the adult males I have)
~10 RCS
5 Briiggs snails
4 Otos
6 Bosemani Rainbows
Some other snails, mostly ramshorn, but I think some are pond snails and I am killing them off.


I tried and tried to get peacock gudgeons but kept getting messed around it seems, so I guess in a couple weeks I will be getting some fish, just not sure exactly what yet. I'm still holding out that I may get some gudgeons but if not I will be removing the PVC and prob 2 of the large clay pots. Thinking a pair of rams(bolivian or GBR) and a pair of Angels. Or maybe something else? Like a schooling fish.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

What is your substrate?

You might want to add some cheap floating plants, hornwort, to get rid of the ammonia. I would tie it to some plastic, crossstick, and tie to substrate so that it doesn't block the light to the plants.


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

SpeedEuphoria said:


> I double dosed Prime and did a couple large water changes in the mean time


Sorry for the stupid question but when you say "dosed" do you mean you put
the Prime directly into the tank or are you correctly pre-mixing the prime
into your water 24 hours before adding it to the tank?

- Brad


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You wait 24 hours after dosing Prime? Why?

I wait the length of time it takes to carry a bucket from my sink to my tank.

(One of these days I'm buying a new faucet just so I can start using my Python again...)


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Yeah I just add prime to a bucket of water that I'm going to add, then pour it in, no waiting.

My tank is doing good now, except the 5 small BN pleco's are missing in action, I believe they died.

The 1 Oto that was looking bad, is recovered and doing well. The 6 Rainbows are colored up and doing well also.

I purchased 9 Serpae Tetras, then ended up giving them back ad they were trouble.

I keep adding RCS, when I net them from my 10G


I have added 1 small Angel, who is doing good also.

I finally got good communication on the Peacock Gudgeons, I have 2M/4F shipping Tuesday so I'm looking forward to that.

Then I'm not sure how close to fully stocked I am? I want at least 1 more Angel maybe 2. Then would like a pair of Rams but not sure if thats pushing it?

Any insight?

The plants, some are good and some are still just at a standstill, algae is not an issue.

I have purchased a CO2 regulator and bubble counter, so at some point in the future when I piece it together and get a 10# tank, I wont be low tech any longer:redface:


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> You wait 24 hours after dosing Prime? Why?
> 
> I wait the length of time it takes to carry a bucket from my sink to my tank.
> 
> (One of these days I'm buying a new faucet just so I can start using my Python again...)



It's called aging your pre-mix water and while every conditioning product
out there says it's "instantaneous" there's no way that's true. Can you
guarantee twenty to thirty gallons of water has fully mixed from your 
facet to your tanks?

Secondly if your adding cold water directly into your tank your stressing
your fish by fluctuating there environment (adding cold water lowers the 
temp then the heater kicks in and raises it).

I must be crazy since I never add water straight from my tap. I have a 
55gal water bucket that I've plumbed at the top (incoming water) and
bottom (outgoing water) that I add my conditioner to. Then I let it set
for 24 hours while my submersible heaters raise the temp up to my tanks
normal range and then I add it to my tanks.

I will note that I've never lost a fish to setting up a new tank or doing
massive water changes ever.

- Brad


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

there is virtually no need to "age" water, now yes the temp should be close but thats a different matter

It used to be, it was used to get rid of chlorine by off gassing

Now with many water treatment places using chloramines, that will not off gas, hence the need for a water treatment/dechlor product

Just look at the "python", there are thousands of people using them and adding water straight from the tap to there tank with zero issues


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## bradac56 (Feb 18, 2008)

SpeedEuphoria said:


> there is virtually no need to "age" water, now yes the temp should be close but thats a different matter
> 
> It used to be, it was used to get rid of chlorine by off gassing
> 
> ...



I'll have to completely disagree with you and leave it at that as the only safe
way to de-chlorinate water is to age it 24 hours and I still add a
water conditioner just to be safe. And just because "thousands" of people
do something doesn't make it right.

I'll leave you on this note I read allot of posts where people have lost fish 
early in the tank setup or during large WC's which has puzzled me but now
I know why. I have never lost a fish to those two reasons, I have lost fish
to my own stupidity on other things but not because of water treatment issues.

- Brad


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I won't disagree that your method works, but IMO aging 24 hours is not necessary and certainly not the "ONLY" safe way. :wink: And it should be noted that aging water for 24 hours alone will not remove chloramines from water, just chlorine.

With FW fish as long as you equalize water parameters (and IME it's pretty easy to do this at the tap unless tank parameters are significantly different than tap parameters) then it's safe to add in water within seconds of thoroughly mixing in a dechlor product. I add mine to the bucket as it's filling, so yes, I'm positive it's thoroughly mixed by the time the bucket is full.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Got this Unit in the mail today:









Got it on Ebay, its a Victor medical grade CO2 regulator


I also took some horrible pics with my horrible camera, just to share with others. They are bad pics but just to get an idea. I plan actually clean the tank and use a better camera this weekend to take new pics, and some pics of my Gudgeons that should be here by then.

Don't laugh!

























Still need to put a background on, I took it off when I redid the top frame, plan on going with a black one this time.

Oh and yes, I'm lazy the tiger lotus got uprooted and I didn't replant it before taking pics.

The rotala on the right, I started with 4-5 stems, now i have at least 2x that. At 1st they looked weak, then took off, now not much. I'm really not sure what's going on with that so I figure the CO2 will help for sure(I'm loosing patience)


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

lauraleellbp said:


> I won't disagree that your method works, but IMO aging 24 hours is not necessary and certainly not the "ONLY" safe way. :wink: .... I add mine to the bucket as it's filling, so yes, I'm positive it's thoroughly mixed by the time the bucket is full.


 ^^gonna have to give a hearty x2 to this!  

SpeedEuphoria - tank is looking good! I'd love to see a full tank shot to see how everything's grown in though too! :biggrin: Looks like you have some pretty fish in there, I can't wait to see the peacock gudgeons, i was looking into getting some of those before, they look like gorgeous fish! So color me jealous! :wink:


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

:iamwithst double posted by accident instead of editing....oops!


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## JoJo727 (Aug 25, 2008)

nice set up


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Karackle said:


> SpeedEuphoria - tank is looking good! I'd love to see a full tank shot to see how everything's grown in though too! :biggrin: Looks like you have some pretty fish in there, I can't wait to see the peacock gudgeons, i was looking into getting some of those before, they look like gorgeous fish! So color me jealous! :wink:


Well so far the Gudgeons are in my 10G, they may stay there forever depending on how large they get and to see if they will breed?

Since I'm running pressurized CO2 now its no longer "Low Tech" I guess.

Should have came around sooner, CO2 is deff worth it!! Plants have taken off! mainly the Hygro is going crazy. Oh I'm still running 1 BPS









I ended up hooking up my CO2 on 10/29, it has been basically 3weeks now and the plants have grown many times more than the 1st 2months w/o CO2. I got a full 15# cylinder for $54 and a 3 way manifold(planning for the future), had some nylon tubing laying around that I'm using.

I still dont have a solenoid so I have been manually turning the co2 on/off( on ~1/2hr before lights on and off ~1hr before lights off) which has not been on time alot so I'm surely hurting things a little. I just purchased a couple solenoids and checkvlves so I will be selling the extras.

I have been running it to the inlet on my canister filter so far with good results. Finally have most of the DIY reactor built.

Still using the T8 shoplight and would not want any more, still on the orig bulbs. Well I may in the future DIY a 2x 54x T5HO setup but will try and see if a single bulb is enough as I have been told that it is fine from others experiences.

I need to do some trimming and replanting, and get some pics.

For dosing ferts, I have been using the EI 20-40G tank amounts, and have to dose ~2x per week so far. Its a lean dosing plan I'm working on, mainly since I dont have awesome lighting and so I dont have to do 50% WC's every week, have been doing ~25% WC's weekly.

That Angel ended up dying, so I have tried 3 angels from petco and all have died, dont plan on getting anything more from them.

I did get 2 prs of longfin GBR's, I was holding off then made the decision to try them. The weather changed and so they were cold during shipping, basically my fault, 1 week prior the weather was warm for MI. The water temp was ~68deg F when I got them. I slowly brought up the temp and acclimated them. I wasn't sure if any were going to make it, they looked shocked. Well the smallest female ended up dying, the remaining 3 are doing great now and are very awesome fish! The 2 males go at it a little daily so I have been watching closely. Not sure what to do at this point for that, I guess I need another female or just hope for the best.

I now have the tank at ~81 deg F, shortly after raising it to that from ~78deg, I had 1 male endler die, not sure about that? The other 6 are doing good


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## Karackle (Dec 11, 2007)

So where are the pics of all of this growth and the pretty fish?! :hihi: 

Sounds like the tank is doing well. Sorry to hear about all the angels though, i've never had good luck with fish from PetSmart or PetCo :icon_roll

Otherwise it sounds like everything is good though!  Glad to hear the GBRs are doing well, it's better they got cold than hot since they tolerate cold a lot better! Sorry about the one you lost though.


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## SpeedEuphoria (Aug 5, 2008)

Karackle said:


> So where are the pics of all of this growth and the pretty fish?! :hihi:



My Camera sucks, I'll try and borrow a better one soon

Forgot to mention that I was having to clean the glass alot before. Now its been 3wks w/ the CO2 going and the glass has not been cleaned yet and looking great!


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