# What is everyone's understanding of how to control algae in planted tanks?



## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

When I first started planted tanks I always heard that the key to the planted tank is "balance", that you need to balance the light, co2, and fertilizer to make it so algae doesn't become a problem. Well I always never understood how to "balance" the planted tank because of all the conflicting views on what "balance" is. 

When I thought balance I thought that you had to have everything exact and not have too much of one thing without getting more of the other while the EI method of dosing puts in enough liquid ferts to last a few days! So that completely threw me off because I thought too much nutrients grows algae. 

And with the co2 I always understood to just keep it around 20-30 ppm so it's not like you have to change that and "balance" that with the others. 

Then I finally found something that actually made sense and gave an actual reason why adding lots of ferts doesn't CAUSE algae. It said that algae spores are triggered by light and ammonia and only that, then that's when the spores transform into flagellates (I think that's what there called but tell me if I'm wrong) which are the stuff that we don't want and that we see grow. So it explained that keeping healthy and growing plants will make sure you don't have ammonia spikes from decaying plant matter. After finding out this information it became so much more clear as to why we do the things we do to keep algae at bay instead of just saying "oh we just need to keep the tank in balance because that's what everyone says you need to do to fight algae".

So I just want to hear what everyone understands about how to keep algae from taking over their tanks and why, thanks!


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

my cure for algae is two words...
Amano
Shrimp


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## huhu89151734 (Jun 29, 2010)

My cure for algae is two words... 

Water 

Change


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## MCHRKiller (Jul 25, 2008)

My cure is....stop obsessing. 

When I did high tech/CO2/EI I obsessed about algae constantly and ya know always had some of some sort. Now Ive switched all of my tanks to low light/no CO2/Flourish dosing and sure I have some green spot and brush algae but that is it. Obsessing for me...only made me not enjoy my tanks; when I stopped the madness I enjoy the tanks more and I have come to accept algae as part of a natural ecosystem.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

Algae isn't what bothers me, it's when algae is out of control. I'm fine with some algae because algae does make the tank look a little more natural but when algae becomes out of control then that's a problem. I don't obsess over stopping algae now but I used to and that was until I understood how things work and now it's not a problem and it actually for me it takes almost the same amount of work to run my high tech tanks as it does my low tech tanks. Of course just more trimming and more doing. That's all.


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## MCHRKiller (Jul 25, 2008)

Out of control algae is usually caused by too much lighting....even with high levels of CO2 and dosing too much light is usually the problem. This is especially a problem with LEDs and T5HOs....those types of lighting is very intense and folks typically put too much of them on a tank.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

I don't have too much lighting on my high tech, the reason I used to get algae was because I was still learning and my tank was newly set up so it wasn't as established as it is now. Algae really started getting out of control when I got ick and I had to dose ick attach which is an herbal treatment so there was a little bit more ammonia than my filter was used to so more algae popped up and so I just took away one of my led bars for the duration of the treatment plus 2 weeks and soon after that I got the hang of it and algae is no longer a problem. And t5 and led is what most people use with no problems. 


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

I'm of the opinion that algae often times is opportunistic and gets a beachhead because things haven't quite biologically settled in. If your tank is under constant change of water chemistry because you're throwing a lot of different attempts to rectify the algae issue. Sometimes, ( not always..) the best approach is to go back a few steps or to slow down. Cut back the light, remove a few fish, let the tank stabilize, introduce some gentle algae cleaner crews. Etc.

The advantage that algae has over vascular plants is that it can quickly optimize fertilizer sources and light, while plants often don't have the quickness and flexibility to handle water that is changing in chemical make-up and begin growing quickly.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

Yeah that makes sense, I had the same thought when I was trying to fight algae because it seemed everything I do wasn't helping and then like you said I just stepped back and let things settle more and over time things got better!


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## ed.junior (Feb 2, 2017)

If you start the discussion from the "algae combat" perspective, you are already in trouble. It is a valid point, but not the focus. 

The point is growing plants. Tom Barr is known mostly for the ferts, but he researched a lot more than that. One key point I learned from him is that light is the driver of growth speed. It is very easy to use so much light that the other elements cannot keep up.

If things are out of balance (e.g. not enough CO2 for the light amount, not enough ferts) you will get algae.
But when plants thrive, algae does not. Easier said than done. You have to learn to grow your plants, and get good at it. When you can grow them, algae will not be an issue.

I have a small 60l tank, with more than 7000 lumens of light, and no algae. To be honest: a couple dots of GSA on the glass, but that's it. Nothing anywhere else. EI dosing (10 NO3, 10 K, 4 PO4, 0,2 Fe-EDTA 3× Week) and high levels of CO2 (1,4 pH drop). 75% weekly Water Change. Trimming is almost a daily task.Some fishes do not enjoy these CO2 levels, even with a lot of surface agitation (~500l/h).










The moss wall will take a while to fill...

Had I less light everything would be less extreme (e.g. Lots of light = lots of everything). A lot of light will just show the imbalance. You can get away with a lot of things by just dimming the lights down or putting them higher.

Plants have a big ideal range for ferts; CO2 gets way easier to adjust with a "normal" light intensity (~80 PAR, maybe less?). Start with light, add CO2 if you want (and make sure it is dissolved in the water) and add enough ferts. Keep filters clean and a decent circulation. Trim things now and them to avoid water getting "stagnated".


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## jmccullough108 (Nov 25, 2016)

No expert by any means, but I tend to have success with more frequent water changes, and a slight increase of the co2 (if the fish are handling it). I still struggle with some black beard, which I added a wave maker to help cure. Trying to be patient but otherwise, co2 has eliminated all other types of algae for me. 


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

Light. Always light. If you do regular water changes to keep your nitrates between 10 and 40ppm, light will limit your algae growth. CO2 is a variable that increased the amount of light you can have without algae growth. Limiting light will always limit algae growth. Dosing ferts and all that jazz is up to you. I've had great luck in plain tap water, weekly water changes (30-50% depending on tank to keep nitrates at 20ppm post water change), and low lighting. I always start lower and increase my photo period until I reach my desired photo period (approx. 8 hours is what I enjoy). If I see algae, I raise the lights to compensate. 

I see people dump way too much par into tanks on a regular basic. The high tech aspect of planted tanks has never really been my thing. I periodically look into it again from time to time, but never jumped into pressurized CO2 and more than medium light. The growth rate of high tech tanks are a big turn off for me. I prefer less maintenance and more enjoyment. I just like watching the fish swim around.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

ed.junior said:


> If you start the discussion from the "algae combat" perspective, you are already in trouble. It is a valid point, but not the focus.
> 
> The point is growing plants. Tom Barr is known mostly for the ferts, but he researched a lot more than that. One key point I learned from him is that light is the driver of growth speed. It is very easy to use so much light that the other elements cannot keep up.
> 
> ...




If I sounded like I was discussing in the algae combat perspective then that's not what I was aiming for. I used to think of planted tanks as an algae combat zone lol but that's not until after I got the hang of things and like you said just getting good at growing plants and then I algae hasn't been an issue since, not one spec on the glass or on any plants and that's all I are about.


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## ed.junior (Feb 2, 2017)

BROMLaar said:


> If I sounded like I was discussing in the algae combat perspective then that's not what I was aiming for.


Not my intention to point a finger. I spent so much time fighting algae that it took me years to realise that I did not really know how to grow plants. Kind of stupid, but yeah. Funny thing is that when I started aiming at growing them the algae just died out. For the sake of learning, I used a lot of light, so I could learn faster, and see the results faster. I have to dose around 12ppm of phosphates weekly to keep GSA at bay, with 150+PAR at substrate.


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

ed.junior said:


> ...with 150+PAR at substrate.




I see stuff like this a lot and people wonder why they have algae. :grin2: Not particularly you, but people often underestimate the demands of the lighting they have picked out. I just found this quite amusing. You're way over the necessary lighting demands for any plant. You will likely see faster growth though.


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## klibs (May 1, 2014)

ed.junior said:


> If you start the discussion from the "algae combat" perspective, you are already in trouble. It is a valid point, but not the focus.
> 
> The point is growing plants. Tom Barr is known mostly for the ferts, but he researched a lot more than that. One key point I learned from him is that light is the driver of growth speed. It is very easy to use so much light that the other elements cannot keep up.
> 
> ...


ding ding ding, thank you. great post here

know why this guy can run that much light and see 0 algae? look how densely planted that tank is. this tank is clearly in balance, there is no 'battling' algae. it simply does not grow in those conditions. if algae is invading your tank then you are NOT meeting these conditions. you should never have to 'fight' algae.

large volume / high density of healthy plants and good light (not too much...) is the key. that's really it.


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## ed.junior (Feb 2, 2017)

klibs said:


> ding ding ding, thank you. great post here
> 
> know why this guy can run that much light and see 0 algae? look how densely planted that tank is. this tank is clearly in balance, there is no 'battling' algae. it simply does not grow in those conditions. if algae is invading your tank then you are NOT meeting these conditions. you should never have to 'fight' algae.
> 
> large volume / high density of healthy plants and good light (not too much...) is the key. that's really it.


Thanks for the kind words, really.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

ed.junior said:


>




That picture didn't show up before on my phone so I didn't see it till now, but that is a BEAUTIFUL tank! Nice job! Is that Dutch style?


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## ed.junior (Feb 2, 2017)

BROMLaar said:


> That picture didn't show up before on my phone so I didn't see it till now, but that is a BEAUTIFUL tank! Nice job! Is that Dutch style?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No man, it is noob style. It is the best I could so far. Thanks 

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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

Lol what equipment are you using for that tank?


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## ed.junior (Feb 2, 2017)

BROMLaar said:


> Lol what equipment are you using for that tank?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tank is 60l. Filter is an Eheim 2075, 1250l/h, but after going through an JBL CO2 atomizer, then a Sera 1000 CO2 diffusor and finally through a spray bar, actual water throughput is 450l/h.
Lighting is 4x24w T5HO plus a 39w A601 Chihiros Led, something like 7000 lumens.

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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

Wow that's a lot of light! Can't imagine how fast those plants grow.


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## ed.junior (Feb 2, 2017)

Water looks like it is boiling 
When plants get to where I want it, I will really slow it down, back to only 2x24w.
But until there I want to try lots of things, and the high intensity will make things happen faster.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

Yeah that's what I was doing to get my carpet to grow faster, I had 50 watts of LED on my 20 gallon and now I have 34, trying to get some bushy rotala and so far so good!


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

Regardless of what causes it, we for sure know that light is the main factor in its growth. I'm sure many of us have kept tanks that were fish only and the light was barely ever on and we saw almost no algae. But that one week you let your roommate take care of the tank they left the light on 24/7 and you came back to an algae explosion lol.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

Especially brown algae (diatoms)


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## MCHRKiller (Jul 25, 2008)

BROMLaar said:


> I don't have too much lighting on my high tech, the reason I used to get algae was because I was still learning and my tank was newly set up so it wasn't as established as it is now. Algae really started getting out of control when I got ick and I had to dose ick attach which is an herbal treatment so there was a little bit more ammonia than my filter was used to so more algae popped up and so I just took away one of my led bars for the duration of the treatment plus 2 weeks and soon after that I got the hang of it and algae is no longer a problem. And t5 and led is what most people use with no problems.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Newly established as in less than 6 months old is a rocky phase for many tanks...further compounded by a lot of substrate types. 

A lot of people DO have problems using LED and T5 because they do not understand how much the tank really needs. Lighting is the catalyst for algae growth when CO2 and nutrients are not also represented in high levels. It is honestly easier for people to manage lighting than it is to balance things out with plant volume, CO2, and nutrients. The honest truth is for most people they would see a benefit to go back to "old tech" lighting. With my current setups I ditched my high end fixtures for some T8 shoplights and my growth is better now than before. 

My last reef was a very lush polyp setup....I only used a 2xT5HO on a 20" tall 3ft tank if that says anything for the intensity. I see people use 6-8 bulbs on a a FW planted with only moderate CO2 and hap hazard ferts and wonder why they have algae problems.Excess dosing is not the problem....excess light is most peoples problem.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

MCHRKiller said:


> Newly established as in less than 6 months old is a rocky phase for many tanks...further compounded by a lot of substrate types.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I never said people don't have problems with putting too much light on their tanks, I like high tech and low tech, I am doing high tech to get my plants to grow faster and more bushy and also you can not keep the same plants in a low tech that you can in a high tech, so there are benefits. And when you get the hang of it and know what your doing then the ONLY difference is more trimming and more dosing, and in some cases that is a benefit. Using shop lights and t8 is a great way to grow plants but for higher tech tanks they take up too much space to get the amount of light that some people might want but it's still possible.


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## Tom Barr (Nov 16, 2012)

Grow plants, then algae not a big issue. 

Problem is, many have trouble growing plants, thus they think it's an algae issue, it is not.

They put the cart before the horse. 

Still, good basic care helps a lot. Also, what is your goal? Some neglect tanks and cannot tend the tank much, non CO2 methods likely the best, or if you have many tanks and not much time for each. You do NOT want 20 dutch style tanks with high light. Then it does not matter who you are or your skills. It will get away from you.

Common issues: lack of water changes, poor CO2 use, and too much light. Ferts can be over a pretty wide range since they are dependent on the light and CO2. 
They are easy to add also, CO2, not so much.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

Tom Barr said:


> Grow plants, then algae not a big issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My goal is to get some more stem plants eventually and cut away like half of my Monte Carlo carpet to get some more stem plants in the background and make them really bushy, for now I'm just letting my carpet fill out on the sides a little better and get the rotala, bacopa, and I can't remember the other stem plant in the back really busy. And lol yeah 20 Dutch style tanks would be a full time job!! I only have 1 high tech 20 gallon long and the rest are low light so it's not too much of a hassle for me. And eventually I really want to get a 40 gallon breeder and do a Dutch style tank, I think they look so pretty!


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## MCHRKiller (Jul 25, 2008)

BROMLaar said:


> I never said people don't have problems with putting too much light on their tanks, I like high tech and low tech, I am doing high tech to get my plants to grow faster and more bushy and also you can not keep the same plants in a low tech that you can in a high tech, so there are benefits. And when you get the hang of it and know what your doing then the ONLY difference is more trimming and more dosing, and in some cases that is a benefit. Using shop lights and t8 is a great way to grow plants but for higher tech tanks they take up too much space to get the amount of light that some people might want but it's still possible.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are certainly many great uses for LEDs and T5HO; never said that there wasn't. High tech isnt hard I agree it just requires a commitment to daily dosing and frequent trimming...which over time most folks get tired of doing. Not arguing that point at all; high tech is awesome and I will probably do it again when I have more time. However as your original post was about controlling algae my point was that limiting the catalyst is probably the easiest solution to prevent/decrease problematic algae and give the plants an opportunity to grow with the available nutrients/CO2 as most of the time those are deficient compared to the amount of light on an aquarium. 

I also think using too much actinic promotes algae growth. I have a fairly decent LED on my Jag's tank which is about 50/50 spectrum and it is making some very nice brush algae on his wood and some green algae on the rocks. Given this tank is not planted and a hardscape only...the effects are quite desirable.


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

Yeah I agree with you on all of that, and personally I don't like so much blue in my tanks.


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

This is actually is a decent thread and I hope some newer folks see it. I am also glad that at the end of it somebody mentioned something that I consider to be very important in fighting algae which is plant mass. I think it was referred to "how densely the plants were planted next to each other ". If you're new and reading this keep in mind it's a balance of the amount of plants you have in the tank or plant mass in relationship to the amount of growth you have of those plants. So if you have very highlighting and a tank full of anubias and Java fern you may still suffer from algae because you're missing the factor of plant growth even though you have plant mass. Whereas if you replace that same plant mass with plants that grow much faster, such as most stem plants, you won't have algae as long as you are properly feeding them fertilizers and carbon. Light is the gas pedal, carbon and ferts are the fuel to plant growth. 


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## BROMLaar (Sep 11, 2016)

Willcooper said:


> Light is the gas pedal, carbon and ferts are the fuel to plant growth.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




That's a really good saying!


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