# ADA Mini-M. Codename: Wet Monument Valley



## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

Looks good man


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## connordude27 (Jun 14, 2008)

i've always wondered what does hc stand for and what kind of lighting does it need?

great looking tank so far


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

connordude27 said:


> i've always wondered what does hc stand for and what kind of lighting does it need?
> 
> great looking tank so far



HC stands for Hemianthus callitrichoides. Technically what I have is dwarf HC, or some variant. 

http://www.tropica.com/go.asp?plant=048B

The MM I refer to is Marsilea Minutia...although it has grown quite differently emersed than it does submerged in my other tank. It is a variant of Marsilea hirsuta or similar (I am by no means a plant expert). 




Here's a great link for reference on plants:

http://www.tropica.com/default.asp


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Looks like a good start, but why would you hot glue a heater to the bottom of the tank?


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Here's a better shot of the tank showing some recent growth. HC is slowly but surely forming a nice carpet!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Looks like a good start, but why would you hot glue a heater to the bottom of the tank?


The heater I chose is flat and is designed to be placed under the substrate. I hot glued it so I wouldn't have to deal with it moving around/towards the surface. It is definitely helping keep it in place but I don't think it's an irreversible action.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

(image difficulties fixed)


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## luckydud13 (Jun 21, 2008)

Loos great! Cant wait to set up a emersed set up. Looking to strat an hc carpet, now to find some.......


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## ddtran46 (Jul 8, 2008)

looking good


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Starting to fill it with water, super-slowly so as not to disturb the substrate and also to look for any potential 'melt' that we all hear/talk about so much here. So far so good...both the HC and MM seem to be adjusting quite well to the submerged setup.

Attached are two shots of the HC spreading and the tank semi-filled.
(Does anyone know why the embed image feature isn't working??)

How does everyone feel about the petrified wood? I thought it'd look a lot darker than it does when wet, but oh well.

Another question: Will the MM growth start being lower-lying when submerged? I've been very happy with the growth I've seen while it's been immersed, but my goodness it looks weird and far too uppity!


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

All of the emersed growth on your MM will die off (according to Tropica, it should be trimmed off...) and will be replaced by new, more compact submersed growth.

http://www.tropica.com/default.asp
http://www.aquabotanicstore.com/Fourleaf_clover_p/specimarsel.htm


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

as long as the root system remains intact and i come out ahead of where i'd be if i didn't grow it immersed, i'll be happy.

my MM is currently pearling however...wouldn't this bode well for limited dieoff?


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

From the FTS a few posts up, you can tell that this tank is going to look phenomenal filled in.

Like roybot said, the MM should loose the four-leaf shaped stems and become what looks like a half of sprig of Glosso.

I like the petrified wood. So much so that I wish you had more of it in there, but it looks great the way you have it.

Lemme see if the embedded image is working for me here.








Apparently it is. You're using the below tags, right?

```
[IMG]photo url[/IMG]
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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

I think I need to just start typing the tags instead of using the picture-frame tool button. I'm having problems with this feature in other forums too. Maybe a Firefox 3.0 issue? Hmm who knows.

Tank is looking pretty sweet filled, but I'm having some clouding issues with my substrate. I stir up the water a few times a day and am filtering out the smallest and dustiest of material, but this is only somewhat effect and an end to this procedure does not seem to be in sight. 

I am considering trying a layer of eco-complete (taken from my main tank) in an attempt to hold down the pond soil. It would be a nice clean look of black and brown if it worked, but the eco-complete grain size might not be large enough to stay positioned on top of my soil. 

New picts coming soon!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Sorry everybody, been a busy weekend. Here are the latest shots:



















I'm having some serious problems with my substrate mucking up my plants and settling everywhere other than at the bottom. I think what I need to do is continue to filter out the lightest materials, while continually stirring up the bottom. Once I start seeing a little less to stir up, I'm going to try a thin layer of Eco-Complete to hold down my soil-like substrate. Very far from getting anything living into it, but that's ok - I'm enjoying seeing the plants grow and spread. 

The next shots you see will be much clearer and with any luck, the tank will start looking crisp and professional. While you can't see much in my latest shots, the plants are all still going great. Dwarf HC is spreading and the HC die-off I'm seeing is certainly limited thus far, with lower-lying new growth coming in at a steady pace.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

i love those rocks


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

WOW that HC looks awesomeroud:

But the water looks kind of yellow...did you take the picture with the flash on? If you did, try turning the flash off - it'll show the natural colors of the tank


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Yeah from now on no more flash. 

I love the rocks too - they are petrified wood. Loved them at the store but MAN they are heavy...not good for something that is sold by the pound!!

Although it's tough to see, there's a third piece nearly the size of the piece in the front right, just to the right of the largest piece. I was thinking that once I submerged everything that it would stick out more above the substrate, but so far it's just staying kinda lost back there. Might move it upwards and outwards down the line.


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

Its looking good! That last shot though... need to level that baby up a bit front to back.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

i need to level off my building but there's not too much i can do about that. a bit annoying but oh well.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Whoo finally some progress on getting my dusty substrate to settle down!

First here's a recent shot from a few days ago. Eco-Complete layer has been added and carefully maneuvered with a turkey baster:











Annnnd finally the water quality is shaping up!










Thus far I've seen VERY limited die-off of my MM. Anyone have any ideas why this is? From what I've read on here, I thought it was going to die almost instantly when I transferred the tank to a submerged setup.


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## oldpunk78 (Nov 1, 2008)

oh, i see the 3rd rock(petrified wood) now. for the camera's eye, it doesn't ad much. i would would remove it and plant something back there instead.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

The Four Leaf Clover looks fabulous, and rather than wonder why it hasn't died off, let's just appreciate it for how much it adds to the 'scape right here and now. 

In this sense, this tank is true _wabi-sabi_ in that everything that has a beginning has an end and it's not really either of those that matter so much as what lies between them.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

oldpunk78 said:


> oh, i see the 3rd rock(petrified wood) now. for the camera's eye, it doesn't ad much. i would would remove it and plant something back there instead.


When I started the tank immersed, I thought the substrate would compact more over time and reveal the third piece of petrified wood - especially once the water was added. Never did though! I will move it at some point but for now I'm happy just enjoying my (finally) successful carpet of dwarf HC.


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## hyphination (Sep 25, 2008)

i like the look of the petrified wood. the big one on the left reminds me of the grand canyon.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Monument Valley?


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Tank is looking pretty sweet! New pict coming soon.

Up next, buying a 50 Watt Hydor Theo Shatter-Proof Submersible Heater and then probably 4-5 Harlequin Rasboras or similar.

What are everyone's suggestions on fish?


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

new shot!


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## FrostyNYC (Nov 5, 2007)

Really great scape.


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## SeaSerpant (Feb 20, 2008)

Looks really great. Personally i would put a big bushy plants a bit in front of the plant in the back so you can't see the stems as much. Otherwise it looks Awesome.

Good Job
SeaSerpant


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## gamexeater (Sep 20, 2008)

If you scroll down to the point where the top of the water can't be seen it almost looks like there isn't water in there at all. Looking really awesome!!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

SeaSerpant said:


> Looks really great. Personally i would put a big bushy plants a bit in front of the plant in the back so you can't see the stems as much. Otherwise it looks Awesome.
> 
> Good Job
> SeaSerpant


That's a good idea - I'm also going to add a black background at some point.

MM is slowly starting to die off and turn into lower-lying growth!


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## fishbguy1 (Feb 29, 2008)

Great looking tank! I"m very jealous.

How's the petrified wood workin for ya? I bought some the other day to use in my 29 once I make some changes to it.

I would defaintly add some shrimp. Maybe some boraras species would look cool in there with the shrimp.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Petrified wood certainly is working out well, although I thought it would look a bit darker when wet. I could never afford to fill a whole tank with it but I thought it was perfect for a nano.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Sorry for anyone and everyone following this thread - it has been too long.

The latest: Moved my third piece of pet. wood upwards and outwards. Clouded the tank substantially but it was definitely worth it. 

Heating: TOTALLY gave up on the lackluster 7.5W Hydor Mini Aquarium Heater. Clearly I got some very bogus information on this heater being capable of heating a 5.5 gallon to 78 degrees. I snipped the power cord and said adios, it being left in a shallow grave underneath my substrate. Got a 50W Whisper heater, and sadly I'm still having issues. Bought it at Walmart out of convenience, rather than going with a 50W Hydor off eBay, annnnd am regretting it. After 5 full days of being powered on, it has yet to get my tank to the 78 degrees the box says it will. I even 'seeded' the tank with hotter water and while I got it to 78 on my own, the best the heater is able to keep it at is 74. Oh well, got the receipt.

On the plus side though, I was able to move my main rock a half inch to make room for a hideaway spot for a heater.


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## MARIMOBALL (Mar 18, 2007)

Whelch those whisper heaters work great. you must have bought a bad one just exchange it. My heater keeps the water on a 5 gal at 78F. BTW most shrimp prefer 74F water. I had a hydor 50w and exchanged it twice because it would not turn off and water was 84Fwhen i noticed. So I got a refund. Although the the inline hydor heaters work great. Get a stealth 50watt and as the infomercial says SET IT AND FORGET IT!:thumbsup: BTW the tank looks great the PW really looks good .


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## Craigthor (Sep 9, 2007)

love the wood...


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

MARIMOBALL said:


> Whelch those whisper heaters work great. you must have bought a bad one just exchange it. My heater keeps the water on a 5 gal at 78F. BTW most shrimp prefer 74F water. I had a hydor 50w and exchanged it twice because it would not turn off and water was 84Fwhen i noticed. So I got a refund. Although the the inline hydor heaters work great. Get a stealth 50watt and as the infomercial says SET IT AND FORGET IT!:thumbsup: BTW the tank looks great the PW really looks good .


Eh I'm not too keen on the idea of trying another Whisper 50-watter. I'm kind of a one strike and you're out kinda guy. Hard for me to believe it was simply my unit that was defective and not the operational design. The only reason I've been looking at the Whispers and the Hydor 50W is because they're quite small, but with the Stealth being 8" I think that is something I can handle (and yes that's what she said). 

I use two Stealths in my 46G and short of some difficulties getting the two to heat harmoniously together, they've been great.

Oh and thanks for the comment on the petrified wood...it's looking better and better every day. New shots coming soon!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

UPDATE! Working on getting some shrimp. Still having heater issues (grrr). More on this soon but let's get to what the people want to see!


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## jinx© (Oct 17, 2007)

Looking great.roud: Moving the 3rd piece of PW out into the open looks better as well.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Another update coming soon (and cherry red shrimp!).


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## dougiefresh (Sep 5, 2006)

Cool tank. Really like those four leaf clovers!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

All those guys are regressing/rotting/transforming into a lower-growing, single-leaf formation of MM. Similar to this:










So enjoy the four leaf clovers while you got em I guess!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Wow well my apologies to anyone who might have been curious to see an update on my nano. Well without further ado...






























The last two show the addition of a second light fixture. Whomever said that I couldn't fit two of these Jebo units on my 5.5 gallon was very wrong...I had about 3 or 4 different configurations to choose from when attaching the two units, and for now am happy with the current one. Another example of don't trust what you read and use common sense!

Bottom line though, the addition of the second light eliminates all shadows and really adds to the professional look of the tank, in my humble opinion. Next up: a new Tom Rapids Mini Canister Filter.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Oh and additional info now that I see my images again - I've had all sorts of clouding the last few weeks due to about three different issues: a bacteria bloom, some (since returned) fish doing TONS of digging around and a recent heater repositioning.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

1/17 update!

Notes: 
Cherry Shrimp now here and proud!
New filter (currently running alongside the old Red Sea Nano): Tom Mini Rapids Canister
Myrio Simulan and one Anubia added to the back right-hand corner


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## roybot73 (Dec 15, 2007)

Nice HC -- how about a full tank shot?


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## Phoenix-cry (Dec 25, 2008)

How long did it take for your HC to get like that?


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Phoenix-cry said:


> How long did it take for your HC to get like that?


I started growing it emersed, outside of an aquarium back in February or March of 2008. It's been at approximately its present state since October. Although if i hadn't made so many mistakes and had started it directly in my nano tank, I'd say it would have taken about 3 months. 

Sadly about 85% of what I bought for $25 I quickly killed by planting it in far too large of clumps.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

roybot73 said:


> Nice HC -- how about a full tank shot?






















Feedback? Please excuse the wet background and dual-filtration. Going to take care of that once I have the canister filter loaded up with enough healthy bacteria.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Tanks looking great! Your HC is beautiful. This is definitely one of those aquariums that ages well.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Ugly Genius said:


> Tanks looking great! Your HC is beautiful. This is definitely one of those aquariums that ages well.


Dwarf HC isn't nearly as hard to carpet as people seem to imply on this forum. I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if I hadn't started it emersed, but still...it's gotta be one of the nicest looking plants out there and the effort level really is minimal by comparison. 

As I look back through my old shots in this thread, I am happy to see that the VERY high growth of my marsilea minuta has reverted back to a lower-grow, denser carpet. This is something that forum-members were very right about!


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow I love it! Especially the HC. Have you thought about removing all the other plants and making it an only-HC tank?


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

ZooTycoonMaster said:


> Wow I love it! Especially the HC. Have you thought about removing all the other plants and making it an only-HC tank?



Haha nope. I like the HC too but I like variety just as much. Plus I'm trying for the illusion of depth and with HC being so tiny, it just makes sense in the front.


Some new shots coming soon. I have filled my new Tom Rapids Mini with filter floss and the water clarity is now just about perfect. Upgrade on this front.

Downgrade though on my background. After weeks of being frustrated by the small amounts of water that would sneak in between the background and my back wall, I have given up. I think I'm going to paint the background instead, but have not a clue what kind of paint would be best for something like this, if it even makes any sense. I'm going to make a fresh post about this but if anyone has any ideas, feel free to pass them along here!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Well it's been a while since my last update and I plan on updating this thread more often if people are interested...so if you are please simply reply so I know you're out there! 



welchrock said:


> Dwarf HC isn't nearly as hard to carpet as people seem to imply on this forum. I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if I hadn't started it emersed, but still...it's gotta be one of the nicest looking plants out there and the effort level really is minimal by comparison.


Well I put my foot in my mouth on this one. While I still feel that growing HC isn't that difficult, keeping it happy and healthy long-term is a definite struggle. Shortly after my last photos were posted in January, I started noticing that my HC was rooting within itself. Meaning that the original roots that formed were now dying off as HC piled up and roots formed on top of the once-healthy bottom layer of HC. (I guess I should have been pruning instead of patting myself on the back for the nice growth!) The bottom layer began to decay from lack of light. This created a situation where the HC was essentially free-floating, like a toupee resting on the tank bottom.  

I could go on and on but bottom line, HC takes serrrrious time and maintenance and with the roots being finer than an human hair, surgical-like precision is needed to keep a healthy carpet alive and well-rooted. For me, I love the look but do not feel it is worth the time. 

After removing the 'HC toupee' I created for myself and doing my best to re-root the nodes, I began having a problem with algae (likely created by the rotting HC). So I have decided to scrap the HC from my nano and go with something more basic for my foreground.

I've also gone away from the Tom Rapids Mini Canister filter I had...what a leaky joke. From the minute I installed it I was never able to get tight seals with the tubing and had endless water dripping. I planned on replacing the tubing with some from Home Depot but never got around to that low priority project. 

Pictures coming real soon!


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## Outlawboss (Dec 30, 2008)

Wow! How did I miss this tank when browsing through past threads. I love the layout! It's kind of what I had in mind when I started my own nano but I couldn't find the right piece of petrified wood. I'm a big fan of HC as well, and have experienced similar toupee problems, but once I learned that you need to trim it down, I just keep it pruned and it's been happy ever since. 

Would love to see some new pictures!


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## allur3 (May 18, 2009)

wow sick HC. Mind explaining the process you went through to plant it? From what I understand, you grew it emersed in a separate tank first, then replanted it? How long did you grow it emersed and under what conditions?


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

allur3 said:


> wow sick HC. Mind explaining the process you went through to plant it? From what I understand, you grew it emersed in a separate tank first, then replanted it? How long did you grow it emersed and under what conditions?


I grew a lot of it immersed in some leftover chinese food containers with lids, and then replanted it tediously in my nano tank and grew it immersed for another month or so. conditions were pretty simple: tank sealed tight with cling wrap, 10 or so hours of the brightest light i could provide it via daylight CFL's, and once or twice daily spraying with a water. Feel free to PM me with further questions if you have any.

As you can see by my latest posts, I really let the wheels fall off my meticulous project by not trimming the HC once it carpeted to the level shown in the best pictures of it. Life got too busy!!


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## mgdmirage (Mar 30, 2009)

I love this tank, the scape, everything!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Update (let's just call this a rebuilding phase):


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## SvenBoogie (Jul 3, 2009)

I really think you have a really great concept going here... I will be very interested to see if you can pull of the execution once it starts growing in more...

EDIT:

This is just my own aesthetic opinion, but personally, I would prefer a different plant in front of the largest rock, something like riccia or dwarf hairgrass.


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## Ugly Genius (Sep 27, 2003)

Looking good, welchrock.
That's always been my problem with HC. It's a beautiful carpet plant, but a PITA to maintain. Growing it is not difficult; keeping it trimmed is the hard part.
I love the use of Echinodorus Tenellus here. Actually, I think this tank with _only_ that plant would be great. Reminiscent of Amano's earlier works in which he used this plant almost exclusively.

Consider this my vote for you to keep this thread going!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

SvenBoogie said:


> This is just my own aesthetic opinion, but personally, I would prefer a different plant in front of the largest rock, something like riccia or dwarf hairgrass.



Might just do this but for now I think I'm going to wait out the growth on the Echinodorus Tenellus, see how that looks. Can't wait to have minimal amounts of the Eco-Compete showing.


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Ugly Genius said:


> Looking good, welchrock.
> That's always been my problem with HC. It's a beautiful carpet plant, but a PITA to maintain. Growing it is not difficult; keeping it trimmed is the hard part.
> I love the use of Echinodorus Tenellus here. Actually, I think this tank with _only_ that plant would be great. Reminiscent of Amano's earlier works in which he used this plant almost exclusively.
> 
> Consider this my vote for you to keep this thread going!


HC is definitely a PITA to maintain...didn't realize that or give it much thought when I was first growing my carpet. I got somewhat lazy too between starting a new job and moving, so after 2+ months with no water changes and upkeep, I ruined all my hard work and am now at the stage I'm at now. Stinks but hey life happens and now I'm re-energized about getting the tank back up to snuff.

I may even give HC another shot at some point...although I'll be prepared the second time around with those expensive angled scissors and a twice-weekly trimming schedule. Ugh just thinking about microscopic work like that makes me cringe. Thank goodness MM is so easy once it's rooted!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Rebuilding phase is going well...see some new shots (in a new location no less) below!



















Foreground plant is filling in nicely where I had short-lived success with my dwarf HC. Recently moved the tank to my office so once the Betta does his thing in there and re-populates the proper bacteria, I'll reload it with 3-5 tetras or similar.


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## paulrw (Apr 14, 2009)

great layout! don't know why, but its very comforting? it looks inviting to me


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## rrrrramos (Jan 24, 2008)

Odd, I don't usually like blue backgrounds on tank, but on this one, it goes real well!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Glad you like the vivid blue background; it used to be a lot lighter blue that I scraped off and re-painted.










It was a blue that looked cool until you turned on the light and it got very washed out.


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## demosthenes (Aug 23, 2008)

it looks great! i think you should consider adding some more plants to the background though. Maybe some really small hygros, like H. 'kompact' that will grow slowly.

The rock on the left side is cool, it reminds me of Ayers Rock in Australia:


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## ZooTycoonMaster (Jan 2, 2008)

demosthenes said:


> The rock on the left side is cool, it reminds me of Ayers Rock in Australia:


I was thinking the exact same thing


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

demosthenes said:


> it looks great! i think you should consider adding some more plants to the background though. Maybe some really small hygros, like H. 'kompact' that will grow slowly.
> 
> The rock on the left side is cool, it reminds me of Ayers Rock in Australia:


I'll take that as a compliment! I spent 4 months in Australia but never made it to Ayers/Uluru...I guess this is close.


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## trigun808 (May 18, 2008)

im loving that marselea! it looks awesome!


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## Down_Shift (Sep 20, 2008)

WElch how the F did you plant the HC? I've been trying to and it sucks!


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## welchrock (Jun 12, 2008)

Down_Shift said:


> WElch how the F did you plant the HC? I've been trying to and it sucks!


I started with about 5% of what you see and grew it immersed for months. There may be pictures of it earlier on in this thread...let me look...











Ok well from the looks of my own notes, I didn't grow it immersed for all that long....although doing so couldn't hurt. For the most part I'd recommend just time and patience. If you can plant with tweezers and maximize each stem, it spreads very quickly.


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## Aheartlessfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I can never get hc to grow...even under highlighting and pressurized co2 

great looking nano


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