# Complete substrate change in established DIRTED tank



## digitalqueso676 (Dec 29, 2013)

Hi everybody! (Hi Dr. digitalqueso!) Simpsons anyone? Anyway. After a battle with PH for the entire time this tank has been set up, I have finnaly figured out the culprit I think is at least in part to my gravel. Dang ole diddly pea gravel. My ph would get as high as 8.4. And every time I do a water change I worry its a large ph swing. So I have decided its gotta go. I have a good place to get native creek bed sand so I am going to just go with that. Not to big not to small. (After a sanitation I know.) So I imagine the nitrogen cycle is screwed after I remove ALL the gravel and put in sterile sand. So I would then need to keep ALL my fish in another established tank for a while correct? While I wait for the cycle to build back up. Or am I missing something that could make my life and this process much easier?


----------



## danellis1229 (Jan 24, 2013)

put a sponge filter in the existing tank when you re do the other tank put the seasoned sponge filter in that tank will speed things up or if same filter put the older filter in the new set up

Bump: i just saw your picture i could be right i could be wrong but i would take a closer look at the bigger rocks for your ph issues


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

No, it won't help to move the fish to another tank. You still need a population of bacteria for the fish, no matter where they are. If you add them to an already established tank that tank has only enough bacteria for its current population. You would be over stocking the tank by adding too many fish all at once. 

Since you are throwing away bacteria (on the gravel) you need a replacement population of bacteria. 

Start a fishless cycle in a bucket before you start anything else. Jump start it with some media from an established tank. 
You will be growing a big population of bacteria so that when you do the change you can throw away all the gravel (with all the bacteria) and have this back up supply of bacteria to add to the tank. 
If your filter will not hold more media it would work just fine to add the fishless cycled media in 6-8 mesh bags and hang them from the sides of the tank. 
Each week remove a bag so the new substrate has a chance to grow bacteria gradually, but the fish have the protection of a big population from the start. 

Alternate:
Add a product with the right species of bacteria. Read the label and get Nitrospira. 
These can be found in Dr. Tim's One and Only, and Tetra Safe Start. Perhaps others. Do not waste money on anything that does not specify Nitrospira. 

Here is the fishless cycle. I have done it in a bucket with a fountain pump, a storage container with HOB, and a bucket with a canister filter (splashed a lot!). 
If you have a spare tank you could do it on that tank with ANY filter media, ANY filter/pump/powerhead... to circulate the water. 

Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details. 

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium. 

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks. 

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water. 
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine. 
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine. 
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated. 
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful. 
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation. 
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort. 
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required. 
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different. 

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else. 
At the time this was written the right species could be found in: 
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others. 
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast. 

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though. 
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below. 

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm. 

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm. 

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm. 

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours. 

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high! 
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
__________________________

Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1b) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off. 
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better. 
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen. 
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well. 
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations. 

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.


----------



## digitalqueso676 (Dec 29, 2013)

Whoa! Quite an informative response! Thank you. I figured the removing the gravel would be bacteria genocide. Now, to fill lots of socks with hydroton and hang them all over my tank. Keepin it classy.


----------



## HybridHerp (May 24, 2012)

why not just place the filters on the current tank into the tank you've moving the fish too? since they can already handle that bio-load


----------



## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Because the filter alone is not all the bacteria population. There is a significant population of bacteria on all the other surfaces of the tank, including the parts of the substrate with good water flow. 

When I would do anything similar to a non-planted tank I would make the following assumption, and usually follow up testing proved it right:
The filter holds roughly half the bacteria. 
The substrate (top layer or so, where the best water movement is) holds about 25% of the bacteria. 
The remaining 25% of the population is on all the other surfaces.

So I would divide a tank like this:
The filter goes to the new tank, (new substrate, new decor, some plants, but nowhere near enough) with half the fish mass. 
The old tank (substrate, decor, some plants...) keeps half the fish, and gets a new filter. 

No jump starting the bacteria population, no bacteria in a bottle, no 'run the new filter on an old tank' or anything else. (Reminder: In those tanks the plants were low tech, and not very many. They really did not count as bio filter)

Split up the bacteria 50/50, split up the fish 50/50. 

So, when digitalqueso wants to throw away about 25% of the ammonia removers, but keep the same amount of ammonia producers, there needs to be additional bacteria added to the system to boost the population. 

My suggestions are different ways to boost the bacteria population:
Buy a bottle or grow your own.


----------

