# Neon Tetra turning white?



## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

May be columnaris. It presents itself like that quite often. It's referred to as saddleback for that reason you're seeing.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Whatever it is, it literally popped up over the course of 8 hours, so I guess i'll be treating with Kanaplex.


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## crazy barb (Jul 6, 2014)

keep away from other fish


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

I placed him in a QT where he died after 3 hours. When I removed him, I treated the whole 55 gallon with Kanaplex. If another neon starts to show signs, should I remove him also or keep everyone where they are since medication is circulating?

Unreal, man. This is what I get for wanting to support a LFS instead of a big chain.


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## JenniferL (Jul 13, 2014)

I'd treat the entire tank. All your fish have now been exposed. I'd also check your water parameters. Tetras can be very good indicators of bad water quality, and they stress out pretty easily. So it could be they got stressed going into your tank ... I'm not saying that's the case, but it's a possibility so you should check your system. Simply being moved from the LFS to your home could have stressed them as well.

Anything is possible.


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## GuppyGuppyGuppyGuppyGuppy (Feb 11, 2012)

StrangeDejavu said:


> I placed him in a QT where he died after 3 hours. When I removed him, I treated the whole 55 gallon with Kanaplex. If another neon starts to show signs, should I remove him also or keep everyone where they are since medication is circulating?
> 
> Unreal, man. This is what I get for wanting to support a LFS instead of a big chain.


LFS probably import wild because it is cheaper for them, while Petsmart probably has a deal with a breeder or something. Petsmart isn't bad quality.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

Do you have a Quarantine and didn't use it or did you not have one? I think I misread that part. I lost 30 fish to columnaris, it sucks. I always always ALWAYS quarantine now. Its not worth all the fish and equipment you have to throwout. I lost my entire breeding colony of Galaxy rasboras. I always have a 3 week Quarantine, then if they are small enough. A round in a new maturing shrimp tank, that is cycled just waiting for Biofilm and maturity for 2 more weeks. Think about it being most cost effective.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Oh man Oceangirl, that really sucks. How fast did it happen? In this case, I went to bed at 2:00am and everything looked good. 10:00am rolls around and he's at the surface away from the school. I netted him and placed him in a half-gallon that I use as a treatment tank. Added some Kanaplex to the 55 gallon and his little bowl and the white area almost doubled in under 4 hours. Once he started bobbing around I added ice to the bowl to put him out of his misery, time was about 2:15pm. It's now 6:00pm and no more signs, symptoms or deaths in the main tank. Also, this is a brand new tank. Few weekends ago Petco was doing the 1 gallon for $1 sale and I picked up a 55 gallon. I did a fish-in cycle with 5 Cory's using Prime and doing water changes when the nitrites spiked. Once the tank cycled, I added the Neons.

I've learned my lesson, though. I still had more stock to add (Harlequin Rasboras and Bolivian Rams) but i'll be holding out until things stabilize, and even then they'll be quarantined first.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

There are actually 3 strains of columnaris I had 2 of the strains. The first strain is fast and will kill in 24-72 hours either with symptoms showing and then poof dead or no symptoms and just death. The next takes a longer time, I think a week. I made sure to keep them cool, (heat makes it worse, which is why if I buy in the summer they get salt baths, and kanaplex in Q), I torn up my planted tank, most plants didn't survive. I had to throw out all the brand new filter media (didn't replace all at once) I just bought and replaced the previous week. Columnaris isn't fun and make sure to BLEACH anything that comes into contact with water, your nets, and keep the infected water away from other tanks. o make my tank even remotely sterile I bleached it 2 times, then sun baked for 3 months. It transmits in the blink of an eye. I had 2 ottos survive and that is it.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Did it look anything like this? These pictures are 4 hours apart, and he died just after the second photo. There wasn't anything fuzzy, nothing on the mouth, just a total loss of pigmentation in the scales then he was gone.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

Hmm, was it fuzzy or slimey? I am not sure from the photos.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

No fuzzy or slime, it was like the pigmentation was all drained in that area. It grew to the size of the second picture before he began swimming sideways, bobbing around and finally landed on his side on the bottom of the bowl, gasping... this is when I euthanized him. I flushed the body, so unfortunately I can't go back and check.

It's been 10 hours since i've discovered him, and 6 hours since he died and the main tank still looks good. Everyone's eating and swimming around. Could this be NTD and not Saddleback? There were no lesions or cottony growths, just a growing area on the fish that lacked color before he kicked the bucket.


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

StrangeDejavu said:


> No fuzzy or slime, it was like the pigmentation was all drained in that area. It grew to the size of the second picture before he began swimming sideways, bobbing around and finally landed on his side on the bottom of the bowl, gasping... this is when I euthanized him. I flushed the body, so unfortunately I can't go back and check.
> 
> It's been 10 hours since i've discovered him, and 6 hours since he died and the main tank still looks good. Everyone's eating and swimming around. Could this be NTD and not Saddleback? There were no lesions or cottony growths, just a growing area on the fish that lacked color before he kicked the bucket.


When my first batch of neons died, I'm 99% certain it was Neon Tetra Disease, and there wasn't too much pigment change like you are showing. One would go seperate itself from the group, and I knew in the morning he'd be dead. The fish was pale, but the gills were very red.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Well, I suppose tomorrow will tell. Only the one fish showed symptoms and he was removed hours before he died. If tomorrow morning rolls around and all appears well, should I be in the clear? At that point, 24 hours will have gone by. I've never dealt with anything more than ich, so i'm unsure about how fast this takes fish out.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

3rd day: Woke up to one dead, laying in the sand. No saddleback, no color loss, no lesions or anything fuzzy... just up and died. I think he may not have responded well to the Kanaplex and the stress of a new tank. That's 2 out of 14 dead in 3 days, pretty good by Neon Tetra standards, IMO. Will be watching the tank for 3-4 weeks before even considering adding more fish. I got a ways to go before my Rams can go in.


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## zzyzx85 (Feb 13, 2008)

looks like Neon Tetra disease. Search it up. IIRC, it's a sporozoan caused issue. 

Recently had a case of it in my tank. Tetras and corys affected. It's quite bad; fish are fine one day and gone the next, if they even make it to the next!


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

A breeder I spoke to said the same thing, zz. Tomorrow will be day 4 with only two deaths out of 19 fish in the aquarium, if things stay like this. I dosed Kanamycin at first sign so if all is well in a few days, I think it may be FNT Disease as it's bacterial. If this is true NTD where there is no cure, and my fish start dropping, then i'll be removing all fish and running bleach through the tank for several days.

This is the part that convinced me:
_
Neon Tetra disease is caused by a sporozoid known as Pleistophora Hyphessobryconis. This forms cysts in the muscles and internal organs of the infected fish, inside the cysts, spores are then formed which spread to healthy tissue until it has taken over the whole fish. The reason that the infection spreads so rapidly in an aquarium is because once a cyst reaches the open water it will burst releasing the spores to infect other fish. This problem also occurs when the host fish has infected kidneys and the spores are passed through the fish waste releasing them into the tank. Once a healthy fish ingests the spores, it will become infected instantly through the intestines. The newly hatched spores burrow through the intestines and the whole cycle is repeated as muscle tissue becomes infected.

Secondary symptoms of the disease as it really takes hold are whitening of the body, particularly along the spinal area. As the disease progresses even further, the whitening will intensify and spread to all of the body. The spine may become twisted or curve upwards and lumps will appear on the body of the fish as the cysts are developing in the body tissue._


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## Little Soprano (Mar 13, 2014)

StrangeDejavu said:


> A breeder I spoke to said the same thing, zz. Tomorrow will be day 4 with only two deaths out of 19 fish in the aquarium, if things stay like this. I dosed Kanamycin at first sign so if all is well in a few days, I think it may be FNT Disease as it's bacterial. If this is true NTD where there is no cure, and my fish start dropping, then i'll be removing all fish and running bleach through the tank for several days.
> 
> This is the part that convinced me:
> _
> ...


If you see any neons start to seperate themselves, get them out immediately. It took about 14 neons for me to realize this, 4 of mine survived after I realized this. I would just take the fish out and put it out of it's misery, mostly due to the fear that the other fish would eat at it. I did lose one zebra, but the rest of my fish are fine.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Thanks for the heads up, Little Soprano. In both cases, everything appears fine during the day, then I wake up to a dead fish. Even now, they are all schooling nicely and all but one is showing great color- his red was faded since I brought them home. I thought for sure he'd be the first to go, but ironically, two have gone and he remains.

I'll post an update in the morning and go from there.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Yay, day 4 and no more die offs. Adding second dose of Kanamycin and crossing my fingers.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Final update for anyone that may stumble on this thread one day: Day 5 and almost done with the Kanamycin treatment. No deaths in well over 48 hours, so it's looking like I dodged the big one. If you suspect FNTD then Kanaplex stomps it out fast.


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

Hi I seem to have a similar issue with a batch of rummy nose Iv just got, one wasn't good right out the bag so I thought stress has done it, had no visible signs and then overnight one had got the white area around the fin then started swimming odd and basically dead.. all happens quite quick! 

How in the end did this turn out? I'm really hoping these haven't brought NTD into my tank!!!


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

No, not NTD- it is Columnaris=- the quickest moving variant.
Can tell by the location of whiteness around dorsal fin, tattered fins, loss of color, quick death. 

Are any of these Rummy's left that you purchased? Did you quarantine them before adding to your display tank? If added to display tank, did you add them to tank with healthy fish?


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

Yea ffs, I don't have a hospital tank and have never had a issue before where I buy from.. just don't have the space for a another tank.. 

All the others left so far look ok but it's day 2 and yes they have gone in with healthy fish.. it's frustrating because if I thought they was bad at all when buying I'd have not bothered..

Iv put a dose of anti fungle and fin rot in today but I'm thinking that's going to be the wrong Treatment isn't it?


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

This is what I put in today 

http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/interpet-anti-fungus-and-finrot-100ml-treatment


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

The most effective treatment for columnaris is nitrofurazone ( active ingredient in API Furan 2 or Jungle Fungus Tabs) _and_ kanamycin ( active ingredient in Seachem Kanaplex).

What are the active ingredients in the medications you have used?


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

Doesn't really state but says Phenoxyethanol on the packing


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

If I search kanaplex then this stuff comes up.. was right next to what I have in the shelf as well.. in the U.K. I don't see many of the other treatments on the shelf and in gonna want it fast! Do you think this is going to be the one I need? 

https://www.interpet.co.uk/Products/Test-Treat/Fish-Treatments/Anti-Internal-Bacteria-Plus-100ml


If so, my issue will be that the treatment I just used states to wait 7 days before a redose or use of another treatment plus a water change of 30% could I get away with 30%~40% change then add the new treatment?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I am unfamiliar with this drug. 
What is its brand name?
Possibly has oxytetracycline included in its blend- which is a broad-based gram +/- antibiotic. The tetracycline group of medications have been one of the class of drugs the least effective in curing the 4 columnaris strains. 

I dont know, you could continue with it and see how the fish do-- if you see further issues then change to what I recommended. 

I would turn your temperature down 3 degrees, this bacteria's rate of spread is temperature dependent- the higher the temperature the quicker it proliferates to kill fish. Keep water clean.


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

I have dropped the temp already as far as I can for everything in the tank and any fish affected have been removed and will continue to do so if anymore are.. 

The treatment I have already put in is for fungus/mouthrot/finrot but from what I can see about what we now think they have is that it's a bacterial infection is that correct? 

Also what can I use to disinfect my nets and Hoover etc wile this is all going on..


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Not being familiar with drugs from UK, it makes it very difficult to tell you what to use. 
The drug you are treating with currently appears to be for external bacteria/symptoms such as fin rot, skin lesions, etc... ( which is what the nitrofurazone takes care of in the case of columnaris) the Interpret medication looks like it may be for internal bacteria ( like kanamycin) takes care of. 

I would look at these medications side by side to see if they contain the same ingredients or different ones to begin with- I cant find anything on line right off- but, Ill keep looking to see if I can.


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

Both treatments are interpet brand, but like you say I have the fin rot one currently.. so maybe this is of some help? 

I shall go to my local place and have a look side by side tomorrow also.. 

Take it that all these treatments are shrimp and snail safe?


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

A 3% bleach solution will work to disinfect between using equipment between tanks. Make sure rinse well after cleaning with bleach solution and air-dry nets, hose also between using for one tank and the other. 

It is caused by a bacteria- here is some info on it:

Fish Columnaris | Fungus & Saprolegnia | Treatment & Prevention

Bump:


Duffa said:


> Both treatments are interpet brand, but like you say I have the fin rot one currently.. so maybe this is of some help?
> 
> I shall go to my local place and have a look side by side tomorrow also..
> 
> Take it that all these treatments are shrimp and snail safe?


 These drugs may be possible to use together- but, I cant be sure. I think that anything is better than doing nothing. So hope for the best. 



Look on the box to see if they say anything about snails or shrimp. Not knowing what the active ingredients contain I cant say one way or another.


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

yes was no mention of it being bad for shrimp etc


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

I have two tanks running but either are hospital tanks so my thinking is that I will treat both tanks anyway to be on the safe side..


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

I would also try an aquarium forum group from the UK that knows these medications and what can be used together. .


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## Duffa (Feb 3, 2019)

What fish should I expect this to affect? All? And this morning there was no more so far.. is this also something that stress could have brought on and that maybe it won't spread if nipped in the bud and other fish are not stressed?


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