# Multiple Blue Rams Decrease agression



## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I just had around 80 in my 55g and they were fine!
All 1"+ juvis.
Some paired and laying eggs on the sponge filters,heater and even just corner of the tank.
Not one has killed another or caused a disease issue for me.
Just traded in 40 today so time to move fry around tomorrow!
I also have had upto 27 in a 40B that were my "keepers" and "imports" to mix my lines.
As they pair up I pull them to breeding tanks.
Even in there I have had 3-4 pairs tending eggs and free swimming fry at the same time.
Never not one other type of fish in any of my ram tanks!
All species or breeding only.
The females are pretty tough when they are with their man.


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## DrewWoodside (Apr 1, 2008)

So essentially from your experience this Does work out. Assuming you balance a good # with the right amount of WCs and filtration. It's strange to me than whenever anyone speaks about them they seem to act as though this isn't possible. I imagine multiple blue rams would actually create a nice aesthetic.

Have you found that the electric blues mix in the same as standard german blue rams?




Coralbandit said:


> I just had around 80 in my 55g and they were fine!
> All 1"+ juvis.
> Some paired and laying eggs on the sponge filters,heater and even just corner of the tank.
> Not one has killed another or caused a disease issue for me.
> ...


Bump:


Coralbandit said:


> I just had around 80 in my 55g and they were fine!
> All 1"+ juvis.
> Some paired and laying eggs on the sponge filters,heater and even just corner of the tank.
> Not one has killed another or caused a disease issue for me.
> ...


^^ And this is why I think a group of rams could actually be even more harmonious with zero females involved.. Do you have any thoughts on that as a possibility?


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## agro (Nov 29, 2013)

Work at a petstore, rarely see aggression when there's a bunch in a small tank. Currently keep bout 20+ blue/gold rams 2"+ in a size similiar to 10g , u see some chasing but not as territorial as Africans so it works.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I haven't kept or bred any other then "German Blues".
That being said they are all they same fish with different colors(like swordtails,mollies..).
I don't scape these tanks but have considered it.
If you have access to a good number of rams I would try out a "all male" or atleast species style tank.
If I am actually getting better at breeding as opposed to still getting lucky a large(75g min) species tank is in my future.
IMO rams can be pretty tough to keep and short lived even if healthy/happy.


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

I was nervous when whether to buy some or not and how much to get since I read about the aggression but I've had no problem which I only have two so this is great to hear.


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## jeepguy (Jul 24, 2013)

I think a lot of the aggression seen is when there are too few extra. For example 3 can be a bad number in a smaller tank. When two pair up the third wheel will be the only ram to harass and if the footprint of the tank is too small then there will be nowhere the third wheel can go where he won't be harassed. 
With more, the harassment will be spread around. Not much different from other schooling species that require large numbers to avoid the harassment and eventual death due to constant attacks on the same fish. Spread the love around I guess you could say.


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## DrewWoodside (Apr 1, 2008)

I think the profiles for blue rams should offer this sort of option for maintaining aggression. Because I'd never read about it before just having observed how these fish interact, it just seems to make sense. I've had a single blue ram for about 2 years. He'll probably be going soon but he's been surprisingly hardy. 

I plan on exploring possibilities with this sort of set up. I'll proceed carefully.


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

I can't speak for rams but apistogramma which are another type of dwarf cichlid definitely reduce aggression in numbers. I had 5 males(1 fully grown and 4 of his kids approx 1") all in a heavily decorated tank that was ONLY 12" x 12" footprint. THAT'S SMALL! And never had aggression. Slowly I sold off the males as they colored up and the less I had the worst it became, when it got down to 3 total I had to move them into a 46 bowfront. Now there is only 2 in the 46 and they bicker all the time even though they never used to. It's very mild aggression mostly the big guy just wants his son to know who's boss, but it's more then it used to be and obviously escalated as numbers decreased. 

One thing to note I NEVER keep more then one male in a tank if a female is around. You do that your begging for a mortality.

That's just my experience with breeding apistogramma, I can't say how it translates into GBRs


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

The saddest part is the fish is fairly expensive ,so "overstocking" is a diffacult($$$) task!
An order from a good breeder may not be all bad,as I got 10 @1" shipped from CA for $60!
You won't find decent stock for $6 anywhere.I get 3 from my lfs who in turn sells them for 24 a pair.
If you can breed them then a species tank sounds very interesting and more affordable.


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## Oceangirl (Feb 5, 2013)

Not to hijack the thread, I too have a question on aggression. I was wondering how many you think would be a good number, I am having issues with aggression. 
I started with 4 "females" sexed they the best I could, Pink bellies Though they were stressed. 

1 started being bossy in Quarantine, added more plants and tried to monitor for fighting. Out of the blue I wake up and 1 is dead. Looks like the bossy one may have killed it.

I took the bossy B back to the store, looks liek it was a female. 

I want to add them to add them to the following tank:
55G 
Fluval 305 
Plants are growing in still (6-8 large swords, Madagascar lace, Too many crypts to count, Val, balasane, more plants than I should have.  )
3 Angels That are still growing 
18 cories (Sterbai, Green/albino, and panda) 
Hagen DIY c02 canister (I love it) 
How many Rams should I have? I have 2 (now I am not sure they are females) 
I was trying for all females or all males, so that way they wouldn't fight

I do 50% or more each week (much to the chagrin of the angels because that water gets LOW)


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

I would want 8-10 in a 55 at least.
I find sexing them in pet stores nearly impossible.Even my own.
I just separated a pair that both have pink bellies?They were in my 55 with around 40 others so "he" may have been hiding from some of the larger males.
Make sure to move stuff around(maybe even pull you existing rams) before you add .
"Newcomer run over by welcome wagon" is not the headline anyone wants to read!


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## strat_guy (Dec 29, 2014)

I've never kept them personally but I have kept geophagus and some geo keepers refer to rams as pseudogeophagus. Rams, like geos, are low aggression but still cichlids. They will fight, there is no way around that. However, they're not like Africans. Africans like to be packed, South Americans like space. You have to find and equilibrium between having enough conspecifics to even out the pecking order without having so many that they get stressed from lack of space. So you want more than you would with say a tank of Severum, but not like keeping a bunch of pseudotreopheus. Rules for Geophagus is the way to go.


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## Coralbandit (Feb 25, 2013)

strat_guy said:


> I've never kept them personally but I have kept geophysics and some geo keepers refer to rams as pseudogeophagus. Rams, like goes, are low aggression but still cichlids. They will fight, there is no way around that. You have to find and equilibrium between having enough conspecifics to even out the pecking order with out having so many that they get stressed from lack of space. Rules for Geophagus is the way to go.


 GBR-Mikrogeophagus Ramirezi
Geophagus rules sound perfect?
Now I just need to look them up!


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## strat_guy (Dec 29, 2014)

The last group of Geos I had were Geophagus 'Red head Tapajos' and they fought incessantly but were technically a schooling fish. On top of that, when there are more than one male present they will form dominant and subdominant males that actually vary in appearance. I would guess the Rams would be similar in behavior.


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