# Black Diamond over Miracle Gro, or Eco complete?



## JJVanier (Feb 4, 2014)

Well, miracle gro organic potting soil is great for plants, so is eco-complete.

Black diamond looks nice but is not really a suitable plant substrate.

Miracle gro can be messy, if you like to rescape and replant often.

I would suggest you use a good plant substrate, whether it be miracle grow, or eco complete, to get about an inch or so covering the bottom of the tank, then put a cap of whatever cosmetically nice gravel, or sand that you like on top, about 5/8-1 inch


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

Black diamond over dirt is cheaper than the eco-complete. If you're rescaping just pull the plants up slowly then siphon any dirt that pops up during a water change.


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

probably wont have fish in the tank for a long time , at least I dont plan to


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## Klinckman (Dec 1, 2013)

Safe T Sorb at tractor supply company is a clay based substrate similar to eco-complete, only $6/bag and 1 bag is enough for a 40B.


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

isnt saf -t sorb an ugly color though? And super dirty? Id rather spend 10 bucks more a bag on eco complete


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## Klinckman (Dec 1, 2013)

It is a natural, red-brown-gray.


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## zetvi (Jun 12, 2013)

Borsig said:


> isnt saf -t sorb an ugly color though? And super dirty? Id rather spend 10 bucks more a bag on eco complete


Actually it will be about 2 bags of eco to get 1 inch in the 40b so it'd be $30 more assuming that you get 1 bag of eco 20lbs at $18 each.

Like said above, go for eco if you are going to move and uproot plants later on ( esp you dont want to pull out an amazon sword with 2 months old in the dirt. If you do, i rather rescape the whole tank as the cost still stay cheaper with dirt+ BDS).

I prefer dirt subtrate and adding clay as it contains more nutritions than eco but its for tank that you are already have the scape right at the beginning. 

I now debating on going for eco as i find my self changing and moving plants lots and dirt is not a good idea no matter how careful you are. And those temporary gas though :fish:


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## wicca27 (May 3, 2009)

you could go with mgo with a black diamond cap over it. i always put sand over my miracle gro soil in my tanks much easier to clean the tank that way


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

Im leaning toward eco as its my first tank, and I have a feeling I will be moving things, but it seems mricale gro under black diamond would give me a better growing platform?


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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

For me i'd rather just stick with one substrate, cause even if you have it all master planned from the beginning, and have it all planted, capped it for me anyways it's just inevitable i'm going to replant, redo the scape at some point down the road, and the top layer is always going to mix with the bottom later. Sooner or later its a mix. 

Maybe not as noticeable in a smaller tank, but the 40b has a decent sized footprint.

From the tanks i've seen some friends setup with safety sorb or some other clay based substrate, a year into it or even sooner it's just a big ole dusty cloud with any kind of replanting. It breaks down to such a fine degree. 

Just my 2 cent input


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## Klinckman (Dec 1, 2013)

I've used fluorite for over 5 years and no dust cloud. Fluorite is clay based, very similar to saf t sorb. Fluorite is harder.

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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

flourite seems about the same price as the eco


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

If I do black diamond over MGO, will my water not be clear? I dont want murky, dirty water. I want it clear, and I want alot of moss/ cover in this tank


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Any substrate can cloud the water when it is new, but there are tricks to get the least clouding to start with. 

Any substrate can cloud the water when you move plants. 

I like the look of EC, so if it was my choice, I would use that. 

To minimize clouding on set up:
Put the substrate in the tank damp to wet. 
Arrange hills and valleys, rocks and driftwood. 
Plant, misting often. 
Put a plate or plastic bag over the substrate and fill the tank by running the water in slowly so it seeps over the edge of the plate. In a larger tank you can run the water faster after it is about 1/2 full, but aim the water horizontally so it does not plow a hole in the substrate.


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## NanoDave (Feb 25, 2013)

I personaly don't care for Eco-Complete as it's highly un uniform in color and size. After a year of use with mine the top has become a bunch of miscolored black to red colored "rocks" and the bottom is fine silt/sand that has settled. It makes water changes a nightmare... well for me at least as all the fish "waste" sinkes into the substrate which in turns leave me gravel vacing every few weeks (no fun with plants). I persoanlly redid all my Eco-Compelete tanks (12 total) with ActivFlora. Ever since I haven't had to add any root tabs and the plants are doing emensly better. Maybe I'm just a stickler for a clean and unifrom looking tank and unfortunately Eco-Complete did neither for me. I actually just recently purcahsed some Black Diamond Blasting sand to try on a plant grow out tank. I added a little laterite to the bottom 1/4" sub and some root tabs and I've seen growth far better than Eco-Complete and almost as good as ActivFlora. 

Please take into note ALL rock/sand substrate (Eco-Complete, ActivFlora, FloraMax) is inert and is simply nutrients in a bag of sand/rock. Porvided some nutrients in some substrates may last longer but after some time they will all be the same and will all need root tabs. Go with personal looks over what the bag tells you at thats inevitably what your buying.


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

Activ flora seems to reasonably be available from only one vendor. Everyone esle wants beyond full stupid price. 

I'd try that, but....

Im wondering if organic + black diamond isnt the way to go.

I just dont want a murky cloudy mess.


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## green18 (Jan 6, 2014)

I have tanks with all 3 of the substrates in question. My favorite by far is the Activ-flora ONLY because it didn't require rinsing. Otherwise I see very little difference between it and the black diamond…maybe a tiny bit bigger grain size.

I have black diamond over potting mix in one and yeah, it took a while for that thing to clear up but it did.

One of my favorites is a mix of eco and active-flora. You get a lot more coverage with eco complete so I added that on the bottom with Activ-flora on top. Over time the Activ Flora settled down and parts of the eco moved to the top but it looks really neat and natural as you might see in a stream with variable substrates.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

You won't get a murky cloudy mess with MGOC and black diamond blasting unless you start digging through your substrate while there's water in the tank. Pulling out a stem plant won't cause that much harm. Pulling out a sword or a crypt might cause a dustup but that's easily preventable if you do it slowly. Even then, your filter should be able to clear your water for you and water changes will get rid of the rest. Though if you're going to go with just moss, ditch the dirt. The moss won't be able to utilize the dirt sublayer that much compared to a crypt or sword plant or even some stems.


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

not just moss. I want moss on the wood. Ground covers like sag or hairgrass on alot of the floor, then other rooted plants, and anubias etc throughout


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

The dwarf sag will enjoy the dirt. The dwarf hairgrass might take a while to carpet depending on your light and CO2.


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

Somoene in another thread mentioned removing the water before doing rescaping to prevent mess. I never thought of that, duh.


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## Monster Fish (Mar 15, 2011)

I usually wait to do a water change after the rescaping. However that works too.


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## Borsig (Aug 1, 2013)

Its a little intimidating - dirt under sand for your first true planted tank, but due to the cost of the other stuff, and the inavalability of activ-flora at a reasonable price, I think I will try the MGO capped with black diamond. Heck I already have a bunch of diamond lying about.


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## captaineddie (Feb 27, 2014)

I am now getting ready to get back into aquarium-keeping after a long absence, and some of what I read confuses me a little. When Miracle Gro is mentioned, is this the same potting soil sold at places such as Home Depot? And, does oil absporption clay simply not dissolve in a short period of time? I want to set up a nice, well-planted tank and (hopefully) do it right the first time.


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## Klinckman (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes the miracle grow from home depot. The clay is fired, thus it doesn't dissolve

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## CrypticLifeStyle (Jan 16, 2013)

It depends on the oil absorbent brand/type used.


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## barbre44 (Aug 31, 2009)

I just setup my 75g with Black Diamond 20/40. This stuff is astounding. Most impressed I've been with substrate. I didn't even wash the stuff and it looks wonderful. I guess I'll have a better idea after a few weeks but right now I can't say enough good about this. BTW, I bought 3 bags and only needed 1 1/2 to make a nice deep substrate.


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## Matt Clark (Dec 11, 2013)

Out of curiousity, have any of you guys with the Black Diamond had issues with Ph raising with it? I filled my 75g with it, and cannot seem to get it to a neutral level. I'm contemplating switching it out for Petco black sand.


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## barbre44 (Aug 31, 2009)

Mine went in 3 days ago, so i haven't checked yet. I was actually more concerned that the Miracle grow would reduce the ph. I'll have to check tonight.


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## aaronbear (Mar 17, 2013)

I have MGOC capped with EcoComplete in my tank and it has produced nothing but beautiful and easy to maintain results. I suggest mineralizing the dirt first, it has made life a lot easier for me.


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## BRC (Mar 26, 2014)

barbre44 said:


> I just setup my 75g with Black Diamond 20/40. This stuff is astounding. Most impressed I've been with substrate. I didn't even wash the stuff and it looks wonderful. I guess I'll have a better idea after a few weeks but right now I can't say enough good about this. BTW, I bought 3 bags and only needed 1 1/2 to make a nice deep substrate.


Is the Black Diamond a cap over Miracle Grow???


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## barbre44 (Aug 31, 2009)

Yes. BD capped over the Miracle grow. 

BTW, my CO2 regulator died so I've been going a week without CO2 delivery to the tank and the plants are still growing. The substrate and fertz are keeping things going while I wait for the new regulator.


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## BRC (Mar 26, 2014)

barbre44 said:


> Yes. BD capped over the Miracle grow.
> 
> BTW, my CO2 regulator died so I've been going a week without CO2 delivery to the tank and the plants are still growing. The substrate and fertz are keeping things going while I wait for the new regulator.



Thanks...I have been on the fence about it...I have two marine tanks, (coral and fish) and this would be my first stab at fresh...(planted or otherwise)...Not sure if I should attempt this with a 75 gallon or not..!! or just put river rock down, some driftwood and fish....:redface: How much MG...??


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