# Sulawesi cardinal shrimps



## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

All I know is they sure are pretty little buggers. Would love to see some more solid info on keeping them.


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## HOLLYWOOD (May 12, 2007)

Use da ---> Sulawesi Search BAM!

You tell 'em, SpongeBob! - Patrick


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## dr.tran (Oct 8, 2007)

HOLLYWOOD said:


> Use da ---> Sulawesi Search BAM!


+ over 9000


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

yeah, that search is not relevant to this thread. I'll submit my parameters and tank info when I get home from work tonight. Great idea, guppies!


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

I have a small colony of wild caught Cardinals that I got earlier this year.
I have had 2 births from them with maybe 3 or 4 babies. I just saw another baby yesterday, so someone is producing in my tank. roud:

My water parameters are PH 8+ temp is 27-29C, crushed coral substrate with lava rocks for them to hide in, they climb all over this rock which I believe has some form of micro-organisms growing on it that they like to eat! They share the 12 gallon tank with yellow shrimps, and eat algae wafers, flake food etc with the yellows, and orange poso snails.

I do a 20% water change every other week, and top up regularly with straight tap water with Amquel+ added.....that's it. PS I do not clean or syphon the bottom at all, snails do all the cleaning for me.

I started with 5 and have around 12 of them now, not a huge lot, but enought to keep me happy. :icon_lol:


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Wow, janftica that is great to start with 5 and growing them to 12. I also used 100% TAP water to start. with Aragonite mixed with sand as my substrate, lace rocks in a 47 gallon tank. Also added a lot of leaf litter for them to hide. My water is 26-27 C, TDS = 475, I have not been monitoring my pH for the last 3 months. It's used to be around 8. WC is every two weeks, about 10-15% with various ratio RO and TAP to keep tds between 400-500. Food are shrimp cuisine, flakes (w/o copper), carrot, ken's veggies sticks, spirulina and shirakura powder.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

The supplier also sent me some water samples (separately from the bags with shrimps), I checked the pH was 7.7-7.8, TDS between 250-320. I can't remember what the exact reading for gH and kH but approx. 6-8. They told me they keep the shrimps at 24-27C.


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

Ive actually put cooler water in with their water changes a couple of times and they don't react at all....I was told they needed 82F at least so try to keep it around 80-82F, seems to work. The funniest thing is when I am adding the new water, sometimes it stirs up the bottom and then there is a cloud of particles floating around the tank...Well, they are ALL out then, babies and adults...must be some food in the substrate that gets stirred up that they like...they are all over the rocks for hours after that, then go back to just hiding. They have become used to me though, as they do come right down to the front of the tank and I have put my finger on the glass and they don't move away...it took a while though. First couple of months I didn't know IF I had any alive, then gradually I'd see one, then 2, then 3....then when I put the yellow shrimps in with them, I guess they felt it was safe to come out....they started competing for the food LOL.

I want more though, I like them sooo much!


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## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

janftica said:


> I
> 
> My water parameters are PH 8+ temp is 27-29C, crushed coral substrate with lava rocks for them to hide in......
> 
> I do a 20% water change every other week.....


What is the hardness of you water?


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> yeah, that search is not relevant to this thread. I'll submit my parameters and tank info when I get home from work tonight. Great idea, guppies!


QFT! Awesome thread guppies, great contributions so far  (sticky in the making right here)


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks Dirtyhermit.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Has anyone tried to grow diatoms as a food source for baby shrimps? I ordered fritz/2 solutions A and B with sodium silicate and they arrived a few days ago.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

my sulawesi tank has diatoms I think... Brown algae-like stuff.

not on purpose, I just over-light the tank for algae growth


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

great stuff sulawesi baby shrimps need them to survive. I believe harlequin shrimps eat these too but that will be another topic.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> my sulawesi tank has diatoms I think... Brown algae-like stuff.
> 
> not on purpose, I just over-light the tank for algae growth


Mine does as well, on the rocks.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

This is why you guys are doing so well.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

I really don't know how I got it, but it just grows on this rock I got off of ebay


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

I am making the solution and put leaves in there to grow them. I think they will be ready in 2 or 3 days.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

guppies said:


> This is why you guys are doing so well.


I figured this had to be key too. Some kind of micro living on algae, diatoms. Obviously though with the neurotic picking. 
They remind me of SW shrimp a lot doing that, & they're picking micros. Maybe if we had some of the tiny things from the Sulawesi lakes it would help a lot:icon_mrgr

I used IAL's to success too. Guppies I need 1 of those leaves!


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

I haven't tried that solution myself. Frank gave me a bottle of stuff that you can add to your tank, and it covers the tank in algae in 24 hours. It's pretty nuts. I had what i think is diatoms before, and some algae covering. But now, the tank is being covered in a haze of algae, even the crushed coral. It's pretty nutty.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

msnikkistar said:


> I haven't tried that solution myself. Frank gave me a bottle of stuff that you can add to your tank, and it covers the tank in algae in 24 hours. It's pretty nuts. I had what i think is diatoms before, and some algae covering. But now, the tank is being covered in a haze of algae, even the crushed coral. It's pretty nutty.


Nutty but goodroud:


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Definitely good for my Cardinals lol


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Dirt, I will send you a leaf. 
Nikki, Frank's stuff is probably a premix solution. I am putting my 3 gallon bucket of solution out in the sun with lots of leaves.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

It most definitely is, but he makes it and it is not for commercial sale. I was just surprised that it made algae like that. lol


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

My tank:

pH 8.0-8.4; gH 6-8; kH 4-6; temp 82-85


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

He should sell it.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

snausage said:


> My tank:
> 
> pH 8.0-8.4; gH 6-8; kH 4-6; temp 82-85


 Hi snausage, what types of sulawesi do you have?


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## TurtleBoyPW5 (Jan 17, 2007)

With my 30" t5no double over my 20g long I have a nice layer of algae over all my rocks. Did not take long at all. roud:

Specs

Aged Tap Water
Temp 82-84
PH 8.0
KH 5
GH 8


I have noticed however that in the morning when I turn on the light I will see 4-5 out of 9 of my cardinals, but as soon as the light has been on for a minute I'd be lucky to see one. Maybe they prefer dimmer darker areas or are they just that timid?


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## plamski (Sep 25, 2009)

May I have link for this stuff too. I just started with some cardinals.
I have 10gal tank with sponge filter and Aquaclear 30.Substrate is regular black gravel from Petco. Tap water + prime+ GH and KH buster for PH-8.2, GH-7, Kh-5, TDS-320, 81-82F
Almost no food added.
When I set up the tank I added 2-3 spoons of BACTER 100.I spreaded substrate in very thin layer. Now I can see yellow bacter 100 between the gravel. Looks like cardinal are feeding on it or it grows a lot of bacteria. I have some lava rocks covered with diatoms etc but shrimps prefer to graze between the gravel. Any idea can this be a good food source?


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

Well I had a good start with mine that were imports. Lost a few at first. After 6 months I decided to get more. I added them to the tank that already had the first batch. Big mistake. Not sure if they got a bug or just to much bio load on the tank all at once. There are Tylo snails in there all small F1's but about 15 or so. Tank is only a 10 gallon. After the first of the year I am going to try again and import some more. This time I will have a tank just for them and nothing else. The first set I had produces about 12 cubs at first and then I got another batch of 6. All died and the tank crashed after I got the second batch. The snails made it... I believe water changes are key. small ones weekly to help keep the water quality good. Where they come from the water is almost perfect..


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Zid, I ran into the same problems with bio load. Apparently the tylo snails released a lot of waste into the tank, so I took most of them out and kept only two adults and their babies in my 47 gallons, also added a HOB filter. 

I looked for you at scape meet yesterday, but people said you left, say hi to me next time.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

15g with inert flourite black substrate and yamaya stontes piled up (makes nice caves for them). dont keep coral chips under the gravel (had bad luck on previous attemps), i just keep half dollar sized chunks under the filter floss in my 2 HOB filters that i run along with a dual sponge filter. started with 3 (all that was left after a previous attempt that began with over 50) and dont know really how many i have now. they have slowly bred, and i am pretty sure i am at least F3 for 4. colony has been running for almost 3 years now. i change 15% of the water every month, and refill/top off evap with pure RO. i feed ocean nutrition wafers, hikari shrimp food, and a small amount of fry food (very small amount). i forgot the name but its the globe type. its almost a powder that they pick off. i had assumed those last 3 would just die like the rest and moved them to this cycled but empty tank to free up space and pretty much ignored them. The key for me is stability, water parameters dont move at all. i use a wall mounted digital ph meter, and multiple independent thermometers to monitor the water. temp is maintained via 2 small eheim heaters. i use 2 undersized heaters so that if one fails on or off, it cant by itself overheat or let the temp drop too much before i notice it.

PH: 7.8-8.0
temp: 81-82.5F 
TDS ~160
GH 4.5
KH 4.0

only other inhabitants are rabbit snails (black headed ones). fauna is standard mosses, java fern, and a pale sickly looking anubias petite that doesnt seem to like the water but survives anyway.

the newer generations come out more but most still tend to hide. they have VERY good sight and seem to be able to sense when i am watching them from my office desk, they will stop feeding and just look back at me when i look at them. nice shrimp, man did it cost me big time (dead shrimp etc) just to get this small stable colony.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

TurtleBoyPW5 said:


> With my 30" t5no double over my 20g long I have a nice layer of algae over all my rocks. Did not take long at all. roud:
> 
> Specs
> 
> ...


I think all the shrimps prefer dimmer light, adding more leaves and rocks will make them feel safe.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

Ok, so I figured I will tell you guys what I do with my 5G.

I am not sure the whole bioload truly applies as I have 3 tylos in my tank (I do plan on upgrading, so do not worry) and a host of mini posos that I just received from Frank. I have anywhere between 14-20 Cardinals, and 2 blue legged posos in this tank. I started out with a mattenfilter, but have since changed to a Tom Rapid's Mini Internal with spray bar due to flow being excessive. I have no issues with deaths in my Cardinals, cept the 3 I lost in the first week of having them. They are breeding for me, and no matter how much light I have, they are out and about 80% of the time picking at the rocks, and sometimes even swim around the tank for me. From what I hear, this occurs when they are very comfortable with the tank.

I use a combination of some mineral, holey rock I obtained on ebay and some regular lava rock. In one part of hte tank, the substrate is crushed coral, and the other part is just some white sand. Flora is just some java fern, micro-sword, and java moss. 

My regimen consists of doing bi-weekly water changes of about 10%. I dose amquel+ every other day, to keep any nitrates (which seem to be big issues in Sulawesi tanks, since most are sparsely planted. Therefore making nitrates an issue) in check.

pH is 8.2-8.4
gH 6-8
Temp is 82

Honestly, I don't test my parameters but once a month if that. I use 100% tap, eyeball some baking soda, a cap full of Mosura Mineral Plus, and a half cap of Amquel+ for top offs and water changes. But, my shrimp are tank raised.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

guppies said:


> Hi snausage, what types of sulawesi do you have?


I've had 22 cardinals for about 1 month. No deaths thus far despite having sky high nitrates at the beginning.

I'm using an aquaclear 20 hob and a large sponge filter. The substrate is Tahitian Moon sand. Lighting is 20-35 watts t-8, one grow light and one sunshine. Planted with java fern, downoi, bolbitis, pelia, subwassertang, and assorted mosses. I've got a huge pile of lava rocks in there, as well as some thin slivers of driftwood. 

Minimal water changes; 10% weekly at the very most. I've read that they suffer when regular large water changes are instituted. Food is primarily a copious supply of algae, almond leaves and barley straw pellets, which I supplement with a couple Mosura foods from time to time. I've also got some male rcs in there and tag-a-long type snails for cleanup. I wanted to get some tylo snails, but I didn't because I figured they'd dirty up the water too fast with their non stop eating and pooping. I also didn't want them devouring my plants and any biofilm/algae the shrimp can get their paws on.

Mine don't seem mind bright light, perhaps because they're tank bred. In fact, they don't seem to come out until after the lights have been on for a bit. 

They're much more territorially than crs or cherries and they seem very graceful. I think they're actually quite hardy, so long as the parameters are pretty stable and the tank stays warm.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

guppies said:


> Zid, I ran into the same problems with bio load. Apparently the tylo snails released a lot of waste into the tank, so I took most of them out and kept only two adults and their babies in my 47 gallons, also added a HOB filter.
> 
> I looked for you at scape meet yesterday, but people said you left, say hi to me next time.


That must be the case, just like when people try to cram 5 mystery snails into a small tank and everything starts dying, except for the snails, which keep plowing right along.


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## ZID ZULANDER (Apr 15, 2008)

I had some people that ordered some stuff and I wanted to drop off the group buy of nerites. I didnt have any raffle tickets and it was taking so long to do it that I just took off. It takes about an hour to get home. I will make it a point to say hi next time.



guppies said:


> Zid, I ran into the same problems with bio load. Apparently the tylo snails released a lot of waste into the tank, so I took most of them out and kept only two adults and their babies in my 47 gallons, also added a HOB filter.
> 
> I looked for you at scape meet yesterday, but people said you left, say hi to me next time.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

> I wanted to get some tylo snails, but I didn't because I figured they'd dirty up the water too fast with their non stop eating and pooping.


Cardinals eat tylo poop, it's part of their symbiotic relationship. I've never had a problem with snails doing anything bad to my tank. Sure they'll eat really soft plants, but they're not super dirty... I don't know where this myth is coming from? They're not like mystery snails which grow very fast... They grow extremely slow and although they poop little pellets of poop, once they're full they breed and go into a sort of hibernation until gestation is complete. I have 14 adult tylos in my tank, and probably 50 baby-juvie babies, and they are great! If you put some veggies in the tank once in a while, or algae wafers (neither of which my cardinals will eat), they wont even bother trying to eat algae or biofilm. They'll just eat their fill and close up until it's baby time!

I think tylo's are great, and the cardinals _LOVE_ eating tylo crap.

BTW, my parameters are:

pH 7.8-8.2 (7.8 right after water change, 8.2 right before water change), temp 80-84, GH 8, KH 6, TDS 280 ppm


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)




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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Awesome, I didn't think to put maple leaves in my tank. I usually will stick some indian almond leaves in there for the tylos to eat, but that looks nice. I think the maple leaves would have less tannins as well. Good idea, thanks!


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

just catch a couple of babies coming out, they are at the black center of the wood.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Awesome, I didn't think to put maple leaves in my tank. I usually will stick some indian almond leaves in there for the tylos to eat, but that looks nice. I think the maple leaves would have less tannins as well. Good idea, thanks!


You want a good mix of fast and slow decaying leaves. Oak leaves are also very good choice. Apple, peach, mullberry leaves can melt in a week or less, good as a secondary food source.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

mordalphus said:


> Cardinals eat tylo poop, it's part of their symbiotic relationship.


I think you are right, the cardinals always seem to attach to the typo snails. I've never thought they eat poop but it makes sense now.


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## antbug (May 28, 2010)

guppies ~ beautiful shrimp.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

guppies said:


> I think you are right, the cardinals always seem to attach to the typo snails. I've never thought they eat poop but it makes sense now.


I don't think it's specific to tylo snails. Shrimp pick at the bacteria that colonizes on poop, but perhaps there's some special ingredients in tylo poop, idk. I had also read some posts about tylo snails being beneficial to sulawesi shrimp, but I don't think it would really make a difference in a well cycled tank. 

@guppies: your tank looks great. I'd watch your pH though since you have so much driftwood and a ton of leaves.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

Snausage: As mentioned the leaves don't have as much tannins as IAL for instance, & the wood looks pretty aged. he also keeps aragonite in his sand, so maybe that helps keep PH up. FWIW I had more success with leaf litter than without. I think others have too.

When I 1st started with Cardinals (these were wild-caught) I had no Tylos. The shrimp hid. I got some Tylos, the shrimp immediately came out of hiding, following/riding the rabbits around the tank. I think it's good for their mental well-being.:red_mouth

@ guppies: Awesome pics, I really love these shrimp they're just stunning. 
What are the dimensions on your tank? Nice set-up. I think I'll set my Sulawesi up in a 48 rimless when we finally get into our new home. I have a nice 48x18 stand already. I only wish the Tylos wouldn't eat all the E tenellus etc I put in. I keep them well-fed but...
Wood will help be able to grow some plants the rabbits can't get to, good idea:thumbsup:
Do your Cardinals actually go to & eat the foods you put in instead of just picking through algae?? (shrimp cuisine, flakes (w/o copper), carrot, ken's veggies sticks, spirulina and shirakura powder.) I figure the carrots are for the rabbits, but what about the rest?

Anyone else want to share pictures of their Cardinal tank(s)?:icon_mrgr


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

@Antbug - thanks
@snausage - I measure pH sometimes but not as frequent as TDS and temp. This tank has been set up for about 6 months, the pH is very stable 7.8-8.1. Beside aragonite in the substrate, I also has a huge piece of lace rock.
@Dirt - the tank is ADA 90-P 36x18x18 47 gallons, the shrimps do come out and eat food, they love the spirulina powder (capsules at the health/herbal store) and shrimp cuisine pellets, but the snails usually finish what I put in. The shirakura powder is for baby shrimps and growing microorganisms.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

my cardinals don't eat anything but the diatoms. Maybe if there were no algae in my tank, they would eat other food, but so far nothing has piqued their appetite


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Mordalphus, have you tried different kinds of food for them? I put a few cherry shrimps (all females so they won't multiply) and feed them some regular food, the cardinals will slowly learn to eat. It may take a few weeks.


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## AoxomoxoA (Apr 22, 2010)

guppies said:


> Mordalphus, have you tried different kinds of food for them? I put a few cherry shrimps (all females so they won't multiply) and feed them some regular food, the cardinals will slowly learn to eat. It may take a few weeks.


:thumbsup:I have 3 not very red females I wanted to separate from the 1 extremely red & a couple (decent but young) males I have with me after moving again. 
I was wondering where I was gonna put them till just now.

<<<runs off with little net to get "dither shrimp"


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

I had cereulae's in there with them that would eat like monsters, didn't seem to encourage them at all.

it's fine though, they aren't starving. They are breeding like rabbits


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Cardinals will eat regular fish food if you train it.


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## Unchin (Oct 28, 2003)

I have had cardinals succesfully without tylos for almost a a year now, but I recently got tylos and I think that they do complement the shrimp.

I was able to feed my cardinals fish food as well.


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

So, I thought since I talked about the solution Frank gave me that covered my tank in algae, I would post pictures.

The first picture is right before adding the solution. The second is 72 hours after introducing the solution, and keeping the lights on in the tank for 48 hours straight. I moved the rocks so that they would be directly under the lights as well. The red lava rock in my tank is now also covered in the algae as well.



















The rocks have now turned completely green.

Here is a picture of a rock, that had another rock on and you can see the defined lines of where the rock did not have any light, versus the area that did.


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

Thanks Nikki ... for the demo. This is great stuff !!


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## janftica (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi Nikki, I also had the stuff that Frank sent for the tanks, but nothing happened with mine...absolutely NADA. Had 3 bottles of it, and it didn't do anything for my tank, still stayed the same. I had the lights on and everything. Maybe I got a bad batch of stuff or whatever is in it died???


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## msnikkistar (Mar 23, 2010)

I have no idea, Anna. Mine worked out great. But then again, I had a 10K bulb and a 6700K bulb from two different light fixtures working on mine. lol


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## guppies (Jan 16, 2010)

I am working on the green algae, but I grow mine outside and then pour it in as needed. I think both brown and green algae are good for small/baby shrimps.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

guppies said:


> I am working on the green algae, but I grow mine outside and then pour it in as needed. I think both brown and green algae are good for small/baby shrimps.


I just dose iron and leave the light on for like 24 hours straight, which seems to algaefy the tank pretty well.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

no joke when i left my 2 bulb t5 ho light fixture on for 24 hours on my 40 breeder tank i would get nice brown algae growth everywhere. so i guess i will have success with these guys after all!


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## Warlock (Feb 28, 2012)

i got mine last week.. 

they seem very shy 

i hope they are just settling in.. 

can't take pics.. they hide in shadows..


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