# highly pregnant amano shrimp... HELP



## fishsandwitch (Apr 20, 2008)

you will need a LOT more that a tupperware...you need a real tank and micro foods. It is tons of effort and you really need a fishroom and a ton of time


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

You can actually raise the larvae in a one gallon tank. Just transfer the mom when she's expected to give birth soon. Once she releases all the eggs, remove her and change that water into brackish water instantly. Aim for a 30ppm salinity. No acclimation is required when changing water from fresh to brackish. They can live up to about a week at the most in Freshwater. 
Foods need to be extremely micro. Green water is a part of their diet. 

The process is long and hard, most people don't bother. I, for one, have a pregnant amano and I'm not even gonna bother. At least, I don't really feel like it right now. However, if you do step up to the challenge, it can be rewarding 

Whatever you do, good luck with her! 

P.S. I packed the snails up for tomorrow's shipping. There's a total of 12 so that allows about 4 per tank


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

thanks ebichua,
i cant wait to see the snails!!

i was refferring to a big tuperware, probably half gallon.

but i do have an empty 10 gallon that i busted an inch of glass off part of the top section while i was trying to make it rimless.
i got another and finished with sucess, but kept the broken one...

and times like this it could come in handy.

i could fill it halfway and stick her in there tommorrow.
i really have no idea how far along she is or how long till she lets go. but there are so many eggs it looks ridiculous, and i think it should go soon.

so, how do we estimate 30 ppm salinity using teaspoons or grams?
how much of what kind of salt do i add to about 5 gallons water?
can i use plain sea salt from the kitchen? non iodized salt? or do i actually need to buy some at the lfs?

what kind of "micro foods?" i heard a rumor they can use anarchis for this? am i just hearing things?



shrimp are so awesome....


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

how can we "grow" green water in a cup?
is putting fish food in a cup of water under a light going to do anything?


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

put some ferts in a cup of water in bright sun. or you could order some euglena from a lab company, but I dont know if that would work


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

Double dose on ferts in a bucket of water. Let it sit outside in direct sunlight and put a very fine mesh over it. Make sure no insects or pests can go in. This will create a constant source of green water for you. Suck a small amount of green water up and squirt it into your larvae tank. 

Here's an amazing link for you to read up on, if you decide to attempt this breeding method.
http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/breeding_yamato.htm


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

I am actually doing this now and have just removed my shrimp from salinity.

There are many methods to "feed" the zoes. I personally used a commercial marine phytoplankton and just dosed as I went. Water never went "green" but they grew and went through their first metamorphosis. I only have a few that survived the full cycle in the salt tank, but its worth the experiment if you have some time.

The key to the whole thing, the lights must remain on 24/7!!! 

Don't just think that you can just throw them in a bucket of slt water and come back in a month. 

BTW, the little hatchlings can take a while to catch because they are so small. I used a syringe and just sucked them up, added directly to salt water.

To measure salinity, use a hydrometer to measure specific gravity (their is no direct way to measure "actual" salinity", only the specific gravity of the solution at a specified temperature.

You can tell when the zoes are about to hatch by a the appearance of a very dark shadow under the shrimps belly. It gets darker right towards the end.
Good luck.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

gmccreedy said:


> I am actually doing this now and have just removed my shrimp from salinity.
> 
> There are many methods to "feed" the zoes. I personally used a commercial marine phytoplankton and just dosed as I went. Water never went "green" but they grew and went through their first metamorphosis. I only have a few that survived the full cycle in the salt tank, but its worth the experiment if you have some time.
> 
> ...


You can also use a refractometer that measures the refraction of light by differing concentrations of salt water. They're a bit pricier though, so if an exact salinity level isn't crucial, go for the hydrometer. 

Good luck, post pictures, and detail your progress! I've had berried amanos before but thought it'd be too much work. Maybe I was wrong.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

I wouldn't say its difficult persay, but volatile seems the best way to put it. One slight misstep and its finished.

This is the furthest I have ever made it and I have tried quite a few times. I did have one misstep in this current process and lost almost all of them within a few hours. Only a few survived.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

i think il go with a hyrometer.
i cam across that mikes machine link last night before you posted and read it from top to bottom.

i will follow his method and see where it lands me.

and for the ease i am going to seperate the female into her own freshwater tank, wait til she drops the eggs, scoop her out, then get that water at marine salinity.


i wonder for what purpose the light needs to be on 24 hours a day. in the wild it is not like this...?

anyway, if i get even a few shrimp out of this it would be worth it.
next time they decide to mate i wanna watch:flick:


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

Come to SJ and pick up my pregnant amano so you can raise her babies too :-D I feel like I'm wasting her eggs because I don't really want to go out and buy a new tank and equip for her larvae.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Those eggs aren't a waste. Fish will eat them.

Discus, I have wondered about the light thing myself, but that is what happened to me this time around, I burnt a bulb out on the fixture I was using and sure enough, wammo...almost everything was dead.


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## Ebichua (May 13, 2008)

Yeah, I know my fish will eat them :-( I love inverts though, so I feel kinda sad.

As for the light, I believe it's to keep them moving. The larvae are attracted to light, similarly to BBS. Maybe they burn a lot of energy, therefore, requiring them to constantly be feeding. And with light, they'll be always moving and as a result, constantly eating as well. I'm just pulling this out of my arse, but it would be a possibility, no?

Discus, please keep us updated if you follow through on this! I'd love to hear your outcomes and experiences. perhaps it will sway me to raise my pregnant amano's larvae too!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Ebichua said:


> Double dose on ferts in a bucket of water. Let it sit outside in direct sunlight and put a very fine mesh over it. Make sure no insects or pests can go in. This will create a constant source of green water for you. Suck a small amount of green water up and squirt it into your larvae tank.
> 
> Here's an amazing link for you to read up on, if you decide to attempt this breeding method.
> http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/breeding_yamato.htm


Great link, I've been looking for something like that! :thumbsup:


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Laura, this one is a bit more informative IMO.

http://caridina.japonica.online.fr/English/


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

DT's is a great Phytoplankton (Green Water) MOST larger pet stores carry it. Your gonna want a GOOD salt mix, I recommend for Ease of use you go to like a Petco Or Petsmart Or Pet Supplies Plus Most of them carry A Liquid Saltwater (NSW is one brand) No mixing needed you just dump it in! Its to costly for Big tanks(anything over about 20g) BUT for this project i think it would be perfect! it comes in 4g Jugs. and they run around 11.99 Or so. I also Agree you should use like DT's Or some other commercial grade Phytoplankton, its easier and Less hassle. And Its ALIVE(well DT's IS anyways).


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

today i went to the lfs and looked at salt mixes.
i saw big blue jugs and things.


then i just asked for water from one of the reef tanks.
i got 2 big bags full with no charge. probably a gallon plus a little more.
this way there is no work/guessing/measuring/buying anything....

the problem i am seeing now is this would be only be about an inch deep in a 10 gallon tank. i think il just prop up one side so the water gets to be deeper.
do i need to be doing water changes on the salt larve water?
so i might construct a larve factory tank out of something unheard of, or i may just go ahead and figure out how to buy/mix/borrow some more saltwater and go full into this thing.
oh well, we will see.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

ahh
i just remember i have a nice 3 gal eclipse...
it looks like crap but that is our new amano breeding tank


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR said:


> today i went to the lfs and looked at salt mixes.
> i saw big blue jugs and things.
> 
> 
> ...



You got water from their reef tanks (with fish, corals, etc...) or you got their premixed SW?


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

water from their reef tanks...


is that a bad idea?


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR said:


> water from their reef tanks...
> 
> 
> is that a bad idea?


Corals do release certain toxins (ie: palytoxin, etc..) as means of chemical warfare against other corals and predators. I'm not saying your water has some since some of the toxin does get removed by protein skimming and I'm quite sure it breaks down over time, but I just wanted to let you know that water from reef tanks may contain toxins.

This may or may not affect the shrimp larvae, I don't know. I would just buy their pre-mixed SW. Costs around 50-70 cents per gallon and it's clean.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

il try it this first time with the lfs reef water for the heck of it.

i was spying on the shrimp in the dark. there was one that kept advancing at the female and they lunged at eachother until he was forced away...
i think out of the four amano shrimp i have in this tank ive gotten lucky to have some that like to breed. i am thinking of pulling these out of their 29g pleco tank and throwing them in the 10g to breed with rcs and spixi snails after i deal with this batch of eggs.

that way they are in closer quarters and i can better keep an eye on them, ect. i hope to make breeding these a habit. i wouldnt mind having hundreds of these, if i can get the process down it wouldnt be too much work either.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

WOW!!
i found another pregnant amano shrimp in my 55 gallon!!
now i have 2 pregnant amanos to work with!!


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Congrats!!!


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR said:


> water from their reef tanks...
> 
> 
> is that a bad idea?


I would Seriously caution against this. As most of my Fish endeavors recently were in SW i got to say IT IS TOUCHY! If you have One Parameter off you have a tank of dead fish and inverts!Water from a LFS reef tank is a BAD idea, On top of the Toxins that Coral release you have Whatever Cheap salt mix they used, No guarantee it was mixed right could be deficient in Calcium Mag,Iodine or any number of other things Not to mention it could have Pathogens that could just outright kill your shrimp!If its worth Doing its worth Doing right and with SW even if its just to raise these shrimp it HAS to be done right!
If you don't want to buy the Pre mixed At least get a Box of Instant Ocean and Buy Distilled water at the Store, if your useing a 3g tank it will be cheap. 7.99 for the IO and 3 bucks will get you about 6g of distilled water . 10.99 total to do it right!


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

okay guys...
i have THREE amano shrimp carrying eggs at this moment!
i noticed another this morning.

ive got to do something fast. im about to catch all these suckers and throw them in the eclipse plastic prison til they drop all their eggs. 

now im trying to figure out how i can syphon off all but the last bit of water and pour salt water into the eclipse...i cant think of any good ways that wont pull the shrimp out with the water.

i might do this a better way and go out and grab a good marine salt mix, that way i can add it to the existing water.
eh..
and i have to get te green water, i still havent made that. 
i get sidetracked


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Yep, get a small box of marine salt mix.

Small box like this would be enough, and it's less than $15 at the LFS. http://www.petoddity.com/-10-Gallon-/P.do/PID/51378016001.1.0.html


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR said:


> okay guys...
> i have THREE amano shrimp carrying eggs at this moment!
> i noticed another this morning.
> 
> ...


I would Get Instant Ocean Or better yet Reef Crystals. Distilled Water mix it up Ahead of time in a bucket with a Power head and a heater the longer you "age" the water this way the better.

You don't have to Siphon off all of the water, just leave an inch or so and fill with SW once the mommy's are out.If you Don't have a Refractometer i would get one(bout 30 to 60 bucks) If you don't want to buy one a Hydrometer would work but they aren't as accurate.You are going for 1.025 Salinity for Full Salt Water and 1.010 if you are aiming for Brackish.

Since you don't have a Cycled SW tank for this you will more than likely want to do a water change every other day, At least 1g on a tank this size, so i would buy a mid size box of salt and a BUNCH of distilled water.

As far as Green water DON'T make your own TOO much risk of contamination, DT's Brand Phytoplankton is the best most stores that carry SW fish carry it and i have yet to see a Pet supplies plus or Petco that doesnt have it!


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

IME amanos take a few weeks to drop their eggs. How far along yours are is a different story.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

so tomorrow im rollin off to petco to buy shrimplet supplies.
phytoplankton and marine mix.


do i really need to use distilled water? what's wrong with tap water?
RO water???? i can get small quantities of RO water, but would rather use it from the tap out of ease/laze.


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR said:


> so tomorrow im rollin off to petco to buy shrimplet supplies.
> phytoplankton and marine mix.
> 
> 
> ...


Short answer can you use tap... yes do you want to...heck no. Distilled,RO,Bottled drinking water all are better choices.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Nah, nothing wrong with tap water for rearing shrimp.


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

gmccreedy said:


> Nah, nothing wrong with tap water for rearing shrimp.


+1.

They're not as sensitive to TDS/other dissolved metals as marine species.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

petco today:
bought a box of petco brand marine salt that makes around 25 gallons, a hydrometer/thermometer. it was 4 dollars, im not sure how accurate it is but i dont know of any good way to test it. help?

-Can i feed the shrimp larvae spirulina powder? it is easily found in capsules at vitamin stores and i could just pop the capsules open and dump the powder into the tank. if this works it would be my method of choice, as it is easier and cheaper to obtain than the phytoplankton and it is easier than making green water, not to mention the capsules can last forever. 

i found one last container on the shelf of two fish brand marine phytoplankton, inspected it... there was powder around the lid, opened it and the friggin seal was opened already!! i dont know if somebody bought it and used it, then returned it or what... i really wasnt too happy with the petco store today, for instance i looked in their freezer for frozen foods and found a half drank pepsi bottle crammed in the back... some of the food packs were busted open and some looked like they had been thawed out and refrozen... and i wasnt gonna be having none of that. 

However, lets not turn this into a chain store bashing thread.

i have everything i need now to raise these critters except for a definetive food source. i could make green water but i dont like the risk of contamination, and dont feel like explaining to the gardener not to throw away the red cup full that's been there for weeks full of green sludge water because i feed it to shrimp larve, like, "senor la agua verde afuera es por mi crevetes y no es basura!!" I would just rather not have to explain that one to anybody.

so i think i can float a small container at the top of the tank and fill it with fertilizer rich water and hope some GW grows in there, which it probably will,
or ideally i can get my hands on some spirulina caps.

i talked to a friend at the lfs that said daphnia would probably work, but i worry the daphnia are too big. i have a fine ground frozen cyclops, but again i dont think this will work. there is freeze dried plankton i would like to crush up into a fine powder, but again i dont know if that will work.

has anybody tried, or have an idea if any of these will work?


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

This is what I use.

http://www.kentmarine.com/saltwater/invert-foods/phytoplex.htm


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## bulrush (May 7, 2007)

> i found one last container on the shelf of two fish brand marine phytoplankton, inspected it... there was powder around the lid, opened it and the friggin seal was opened already!! i dont know if somebody bought it and used it, then returned it or what... i really wasnt too happy with the petco store today, for instance i looked in their freezer for frozen foods and found a half drank pepsi bottle crammed in the back... some of the food packs were busted open and some looked like they had been thawed out and refrozen... and i wasnt gonna be having none of that.


I am disinclined to think that kids paid minimum wage to earn gas money for their beater mobile will have much inclination to thoroughly check returned items for damage or to see if they were opened.

Discus,
My biggest problem with baby fish and daphnia, was keeping the food in the water column. Most of it sank to the bottom to be eaten by adult shrimp or to rot. So, regardless of the food you use, you still have to swirl the tank water to keep it in the middle of the tank, where floating shrimp larva will find it.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Why not spirulina powder? It should float for a bit before it gets waterlogged.

How's the project coming?

I've heard several people say they wanted to try this, but never personally known anyone who has been successful yet, and I'd really like to see it happen! :thumbsup:


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewI...Food-Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies~vendor~.html

that is what i would personally use for food, yes it cost a bit more but it is a VERY respected name among marine keepers and is a high quality product.


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

gmccreedy said:


> This is what I use.
> 
> http://www.kentmarine.com/saltwater/invert-foods/phytoplex.htm


also a very good choice and a very respected name in the marine community.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

okay, i wanted everyone to know that our shrimp operation is now in full swing.


the highly pregnant shrimp rests alone tonight in a beat up eclipse 3 with packing tape sealing it's leaky cracks, naturally stashed in a closet with an airstone, a bio sponge and a 24" allglass light hood resting on top.

it isnt pretty, but we have a potentially effective shrimp hatchery.

her eggs are translucent now with little tiny black dots visible, these are apparently shrimp egg eyeballs. so i predict it shouldnt be too much longer until she starts dropping the eggs. then out she goes and in goes a load of marine salt mix. 

ive got all the components in line except for a food for the baby shrimp.
i really wish somebody could give me an answer as to if i could be feeding them just spirulina powder. it's just easy for me because i have had no luck in finding any phytoplankton locally... except for the last lonely preopened jar at petco or a half gallon for 60 dollars at my lfs..
and i just dont feel like ordering something online unless it is the last option.

i want to give them spirulina powder. can they eat it?
can i just grind up flakes with a mortar and pestle? or is it not that simple...?


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR said:


> okay, i wanted everyone to know that our shrimp operation is now in full swing.
> 
> 
> the highly pregnant shrimp rests alone tonight in a beat up eclipse 3 with packing tape sealing it's leaky cracks, naturally stashed in a closet with an airstone, a bio sponge and a 24" allglass light hood resting on top.
> ...


Im assuming they filter feed as young so the powder wouldn't work all that well, it may but i would look for the Phyto.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

I guess my response was no good....

but I will try again. Feed them something like this, this is what I use (successfully!)

http://www.kentmarine.com/saltwater/.../phytoplex.htm


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

gmccreedy said:


> I guess my response was no good....
> 
> but I will try again. Feed them something like this, this is what I use (successfully!)
> 
> http://www.kentmarine.com/saltwater/.../phytoplex.htm


Again i will agree this is a very good product from a very respected name in the SW end of our hobby.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

gmccreedy said:


> I guess my response was no good....
> 
> but I will try again. Feed them something like this, this is what I use (successfully!)
> 
> http://www.kentmarine.com/saltwater/.../phytoplex.htm


 

i went to petsmart today to buy some fish food. and i bought kent phytoplex 
im glad now. i grabbed a coralife deep six hydrometer. it should be a little more accurate and a whole lot easier to read than the glass floating thermometer combo type i got a while ago. 

mccreedy, vance, thanks guys.
i was not ignoring your advice, i just didnt know if i could find the phytoplex locally and would rather substitute with something else than order online, pay shipping, ect. thinking in my mind last night i did remember that there is a very good shop in my area that is exclusive to saltwater, and i would have gone there to get some phytoplankton had i not stumbled across it today.


one thing i did notice at petsmart today, the kent phytoplex did not have a seal on the bottle. none of the kent bottles did. im not worried, but it seems strange.

also, there was a thick dust layer on the bottle. it looks to have been sitting on that shelf for at least a year. does anything happen to the stuff over time?


and another: could any harm be done by adding the salt mix to the tank while the larvae are inside?


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Nah, your fine. A bit of dust on the bottle, you probably could have complained and got discount...lol.

Now, you want the salt water tank setup WELL in advance of the shrimp being added. You do not want to "mix" the shrimp with the salt additive.

Once setup, get light going on it, add some of the algae stuff and let it "get nasty".

Add shrimp as the hatch. You will get a few hundred zoes right off the bat. Expect to loose about 50% within a week, probably another 10 to 25 percent as time progresses to first molt.

The trick from my experience to date is knowing when and how to get them back to freshwater. This is where I suffer the most right now, but I think I have some ideas on my next go.

Good luck. Be patient.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

O yea, siphoning out the zoes can take a while, but its not hard. Use a flashlight!!! They are attracted to light...


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

all eggs are gone as of this morning there are tons (okay, maybe grams) of tiny larvae swimming around. i cant mix the salt right now but will have the time later on today, using a seperate bucket, and a pipette. 


is it going to take hours to catch them all?? 
 
this is crazy


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

Congrats! I can wait to hear more news


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

time to get these shrimps into the saltwater.

im cooking up a batch right now. 
mccreedy, when you say "Once setup, get light going on it, add some of the algae stuff and let it "get nasty".

what do you mean?? algae stuff like from one of the planted tanks?
would it be better to use some nice tank water from one of my planted tanks to add the salt mix to?

and am i supposed to be doing water changes in this shrimp tank???
that would be painful because that means everytime i have to go through a bucket and look for the zoes....

thanks!


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

I think "let it get nasty" may refer to purposely growing green water for the zoes/shrimplets to eat.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

epicfish said:


> I think "let it get nasty" may refer to purposely growing green water for the zoes/shrimplets to eat.


Yep! Thanks Epic.


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

No worries glad you found it locally! No worries on Kent it isn't Live Phytoplankton,so it will keep FAR longer!Easy way to do water change and not suck them up, take a piece of Panty hose and put it over the end of the hose that is going in the tank and then rubber band it in place, DO NOT USE THE WIFE'S!!!(just trust me on this one!) they sell them at wal mart for .33!


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Vance... panty hose won't even do it. They are so small, they will go right through.

FWIW, I only topoff, no real water changes persay.


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

gmccreedy said:


> Vance... panty hose won't even do it. They are so small, they will go right through.
> 
> FWIW, I only topoff, no real water changes persay.


Wow didnt know they were that Small, in that case i agree with McCreedy, top off but no real changes, but do change in between batches of shrimp lol


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

okay, heres an update....
first i tried using a small pipette with very minimal success, then i tossed it aside.
i used a plastic marinade injector syringe to catch all the zoes. they are extremely inclined to go towards light as gmccreedy said, making it fairly easy to catch them by luring them into a corner and then sucking them up the syringe quickly, and repeating many times. i think it took around 15 minutes before it was all done and there were no more left that i could see. also, i managed to get them all within only a half cup of water. this is good so that when i dump it into the SW it wont throw off the salinity much, and i mixed the salt just a hair on the heavy side to compensate for this, because afterall the tank in use for this is only 3 gallons. i used a bucket for the mixing that has handy measurements on the inside so i knew exactly how much water i needed to make to fill the three gal tank.

the salt water was mixed up about 30 minutes before i added the shrimp. i would have waited longer but it just isnt going to happen this time around.
i used part new tap water (dechlored..) and some good planted tank water that was about 3 day old. hopefully this is okay and will give a head start for the SW to "get nasty.."  because of the little bits of ferts and stuff in there. 

these things are extremely tiny. 

thanks for all the help guys!!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

How long were your females berried?

Seems like several of mine have been berried for months... and are still carrying... and the eggs have been very dark for weeks.


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## CL (Mar 13, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> How long were your females berried?
> 
> Seems like several of mine have been berried for months... and are still carrying... and the eggs have been very dark for weeks.


Same thing here. I think that they hatch in the tank, then the fish say "Yay, its just like Golden Corral" when the shrimp molts or it just drops the eggs and the fish say "Yay, caviar!" lol


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> How long were your females berried?
> 
> Seems like several of mine have been berried for months... and are still carrying... and the eggs have been very dark for weeks.


laura,
i really dont know for sure how long they were berried before i noticed.
possibly that shrimp was already preg when i bought it maybe a month and a half ago. but i like to think i would have noticed it at the time. i really think this was only a matter of maybe a month but i cant be sure. someone once said that when the eggs are fresh they have a dark green color like java moss. i never saw this color in mine.

the eggs were a lime greenish color when i first noticed, and that was when i started this thread. the eggs werent really dark at the end a couple days ago or the night before they were dropped

instead they were clear, with tiny black specks in them. when i noticed this is when i yanked the shrimp from the tank and stuck her in her own, and then within a matter of one or two nights the eggs were gone and the zoes were free swimming.

one thing that is a little bit of a bummer is that in my 55 gal i know there is another pregnant shrimp, i just dont know how far along it is, let alone if i would be able to catch it, or even spot it. that is why whenever the time is right im going to move a number of amanos into my 10 gal rcs breeding tank so i can keep a close eye on them and easily yank the preg. ones when there time comes so i can repeat this experiment, this is actually not as hard as some will try to have you believe.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR said:


> this is actually not as hard as some will try to have you believe.


LOL....you just started...


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

gmccreedy said:


> LOL....you just started...


starting was the easy part. 
when you wake up and find out everything is dead on the bottom that brings it to a whole new perspective.


where do you think i went wrong?
the salinity was okay, the light was on, the water temp was about 73, i put in a few drops of the kent phytoplex after adding the shrimp....

do you think it was a bad idea to use some of the planted tank water? 


i wonder if they may have been injured from being sucked through a ~2mm hole on the syringe? but they were moving and responding to light while they were in their container before being dumped in the SW. even after being placed in the SW they were anging towards the light at the surface.

the airstone was running and producing a lot of surface movement. is it possible to have too much?


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

This is the reason that alot of people don't bother doing this. Very volatile....

I have yet to see anyone fill in the blanks about alot of the things that goes wrong. My batch finally bit the bucket this morning and thats the furthest I made it... about 42 days. All dead. (and I had some almost all the way converted to freshwater!)

Guess your going to have to fill in the blanks and tell us!


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

maybe the PT water was a poor choice. it is possible that something in that water was no good for the shrimp. or maybe it was the fact that i mixed the salt so soon before adding the zoes. 

i really dont know. 
i would like to know what it was that did it.
the eclipse 3 tht i kept them in had some leaky cracks in it which i sealed off with a few layers of packing tape.. i wouldnt think this could make much of a difference but it is also possible that the adhesive on the tape leached out some chemicals into the water that poisoned the shrimp.

i really dont know, but i am willing to give it another try or three. it's really too bad this didnt work out this time, and it's a kinda wierd that both of our amano shrimp zoe populations ended up dying on the same morning mccreedy 

i still have some other preg shrimp i can try with, i just have to hunt them down before they drop their eggs.

if nothing else comes from this experience i may just construct a 10 gal nano reef:redface:


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## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Mix the SW well beforehand. Aerate it with an airstone and circulate it with a powerhead for a least a day or two before you add the zoes. Basically, you'll need a completely cycled system before adding them.

No one can really tell you what went wrong. You're going to have to eliminate all the things that could've caused the deaths.


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

It may have been a coincidence, but I learned a real lot on this go around (this was my third attempt) and have alot of things I want to try on the next go. I know have four berried amanos waiting in a QT tank... just waiting for them to pop now.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

It doen't make sense to me that the zoes should be plopped right into salt water without acclimation.

I've never done this myself of course, but that's one of the things that just sticks out at me as a red flag, IYKWIM?

What do we know about how Amanos actually do this in the wild? Where do the mothers actually drop their eggs? Do they go all the way to salt water, or brackish, or stop just upstream from an estuary and release their eggs where the currents will carry them?

Either way, in the wild I'd think these little guys would have SOME acclimation time, even if it's still in the egg...


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

The "mother" cannot survive in SW. They are released in SW, get washed out to see until first molt, then make their way back.

I have added them directly to SW with good survival rates. It doesn't seem to matter (this may be because they are naturally washed down to see at probably a fast rate)

The transition back to FW seems to be my big hurdle now. Got a plan though!!!


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

epicfish said:


> Mix the SW well beforehand. Aerate it with an airstone and circulate it with a powerhead for a least a day or two before you add the zoes. Basically, you'll need a completely cycled system before adding them.
> 
> No one can really tell you what went wrong. You're going to have to eliminate all the things that could've caused the deaths.


Completely agree SW is very unstable when first mixed, it needs to sit over night with an air stone and power head and i will further add to it, you should Always use Distilled,Ro,Ro/Di water Etc for mixing salt water, Declor and tap for SW is just a bad idea. You don't use RO/DI to take out clorine you use it to take out TDS, One of which depending on the age of your home could very well be copper, older homes use copper pipes!

Also agree that the next batch of eggs should be Drip accilmated, for about 2 or 3 hours. If they are small enough to go through pantyhose i highly doubt you hurt them by catching with a turkey baster.But if your worried next time use your water change hose to catch them, Once in bucket Start a Sphion with some air line hose in your salt water, and tie a knot in it. Pull it tight enough that you get one or two drops per second and leave it go for 3 hours.
Sorry for your loss and trust me i completely know how you feel i had a SW tank crash, Lost about 30 snails @1.50 each, A Pygmy [email protected],A Clown fish @12.00 And A yellow tailed Blue Damsel @ 5.00 that is just the fish and invert cost, i also lost about 75.00 worth of Coral.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

thanks guys. next go around i may try using ro water to mix the salt.
it may be that my water from the tap has some levels of nasties in it that killed off the shrimp. 

i am a skeptical one when it comes to copper leaching from the pipes.
with the amount of water we run through these pipes in my house it just cant be sitting too long in the pipes, from all the python assisted water changes and compulsive handwashing i do i really dont think the water has enough time to accumulate enough copper to do any harm.

afterall, it may not have been the water from the tap, could have been the water from the tank. could have been a number of different factors. that is why next time i try with RO water and a clean slate. 

this is relatively uncharted territory without very many published successful attempts. afterall there is no amano shrimp hatchling care for dummies book around yet. all i can do is try again and eliminate some of the potential mistakes i may have made along the way.


and i plan to set up a small salt tank just for the purpose of this excersize.
will probably be a 10 gal. and will set up long before (weeks).


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Anyone having any better success?


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Mine are just shedding the zoes now. Just waiting for them all to come out.


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## CrimsonKeel (Jul 12, 2004)

Could you have used your 3 gallon in the past for a treatment tank? it could be left over chemicals in the tank.
Also it would seem to me that you would want to set up the saltwater tank far in advance to allow it to cycle and grow green water for food.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Gmc, how long do your females typically stay berried before shedding the zoes?

My huge female had to have been berried for almost 2 months first...


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## Gatekeeper (Feb 20, 2007)

Thats about right Laura. I would guess 8 to 10 weeks. Toughto tell exactly, but I try and pull them the minute I see them berried. But who knows how long they are holding until then.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

ive got two berried right now, eggs are still green on one,so i have a few weeks to wait. th other will pop in another week or two, and that batch will probably be wasted because i dont want to mess with the 3 gal eclipse anymore, it is trashed because it liked to leak a bit through the cracks and i was adding another layer of tape every few days to contain the water. hardly the way to go.

i have a 10 gal that is holding a discus that i am treating for intestinal parasites, with jungle labs parasite fizz tabs and a high temp. i still cant get the fish to eat anything and have given it many offerings of different stuff. after a couple days with the fish on the tabs i cranked up the dosage a bit to 1 and 1/2 tabs every day, if after a week and a half i see no results i plan to try two a day. the fish wont eat but is active and still has some thickness to him, so i still have a few weeks to make these worms go away. the fizz tabs have been my first attempt. at medicating this fish. i am sure there are better ways to go about this........ but hopefully this is enough to kill off the worms so i can get him out of there soon, then clean out the tank real well and prepare for the amanos again.

then i can get better stuff, RO water and a new syringe that is a bit bigger so i can collect the zoes faster in one tank to transfer them to the salt. i will set up SW a while in advance this time, and i will give the zoes a sort of drip acclimation to the sw, and hopefully i can have better luck this time around.


thoughts on the drip acclimation:
think about the tiny shrimp larvae. mommy shrimp is in the river, lets them go. then they ride on out to the ocean. wouldnt it make sense that they pass through some estuary or a volume of water where they are gradually, even if short introduced into increasing salinity, rather than dumped instantly from one body of freshwater into another with full marine salinity? i think that they would pass through brackish waters first.
most say that it makes no difference, but i am a bit skeptical. even if it doesnt, it sure wouldnt hurt to give it a try. 


a question for marine folk? for what reason is RO water used in reef tanks? do the marine life care either way, or is this just a way to limit nutrient concentrations in the water for controlling other things like algae growth?


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## CrimsonKeel (Jul 12, 2004)

I still believe that using a tank that has been used as a medication tank is a bad idea.
a new 10 gallon tank is maybe 15 bucks. for all the time and effort your putting in 15 bucks would be a nice peace of mind thing to know your starting with a fresh un contaminated tank.


I do agree on drip acclimation. even something like a 1 gallon tank half full that you splash in some salty water every few mins would work then once they are close they could be transfered to your already set up 10 gallon tank.


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## vance71975 (Jun 4, 2008)

CrimsonKeel said:


> I still believe that using a tank that has been used as a medication tank is a bad idea.
> a new 10 gallon tank is maybe 15 bucks.


Brand New 10g tank 9.87 at wal mart all day every day!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

x3 on a new tank for the shrimp.

Feed the discus raw garlic if you can- great for worms, and most discus seem to take it pretty readily (IDK if yours will or not at this point though...)

SW tankers use RO water in order to completely control and know for sure the base water chemistry since you have to add various components to stabilize the salinity and pH. Also eliminates all the nasties; nutrients, heavy metals, etc.


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