# My new German Blue Rams.



## depthC (Oct 9, 2003)

Please do im very interested in your setup. I also have 2 blue rams but i bought them locally so im sure if they are inbred or not. Its a bummer i have both males but in the future when i get a r/o system ill definately be ordering a few pairs and try to breed them. I got a picture of one of the more colorful males. 

- depthC


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## ljezuit (Jan 15, 2003)

My lfs store got some in and I wanted to buy some but I don’t know a lot about them.

I would like to add them to my community tank which has 2 Silver angels, 4 Zebra Danios, and a few hatchet fish. Would they be ok in this tank? Also my PH is around 7.4 – 7.6….is this ok?


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

I also picked up a pair of German Rams last night. They are nowhere near as colorful as the fish in the pic, but they are juveniles so hopefully they will show more color as they age.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

About 4 weeks ago I added a male GBR to the two females I already had. He was a little shy and although he ate alright he got thinner and thinner and expired last night. I would _assume_ internal parasites...


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

I have German Blue rams and they lay eggs like no ones business...here is a good link about them that you can read up on. As far as being good in your community tank you should have no problems ( although I have a 100 gallon that I run mine in ).

http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_Web/blue rams.html

Hope that helps....I love them fishies!

Mike


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I bookmarked that link for the rams. But always being the curious one, I went to the Home page and there were several more well written articles. One that caught my attention was using peat to induce spawning. I'm very fortunate to have soft water here(kh-2, GH-2). I put a little peat in my Ram tank to see what affect it has on ph, and I will be monitoring ph, gh, kh closely and also the Rams behaviors. I'm so caught up on this Ram tank that my 75Gal is getting a little neglected.  

Marcel


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## DizBjOhN104 (Oct 11, 2003)

wow these german blue rams looks awesome, i mite get some for my 20g tank once i get it set up


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## depthC (Oct 9, 2003)

So m.lemay when can we expect pics of your rams and breeding setup?

- depthC


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Heres a picture of the breeder setup. It's 2-10g tanks and a 10 gal steel tank stand , all from walmart. The upper tank is housing the 4 blue rams, the lower tank is housing guppies. I had the upper tank stocked with the guppies, so it was already cycled. The lower tank has a kitty litter/peat/gravel substrate. I put the guppies in that one because I figured guppies are cheaper to lose than Blue Rams. The guppies will eventually be getting a new home and the lower tank will be for ram fry.

Marcel


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Here's a picture of 3 of the blue rams, 1 of them was hiding


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Those are beauties Marcel  

When you get them to spawn I am first in line for a litter ! :wink: 

I really like the looks of them buggers !


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

You got it  

Marcel


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## E. Simpson (Oct 18, 2003)

I was just looking at a couple of those fish today.Could you tell me how would they be in a community tank with a few shrimp and some cory's.Are they to agressive or would they be ok for that setup.Thanks for any info.




E. Simpson


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## Pooky125 (Jul 30, 2002)

*drool* Soo beautiful. I lost my trio of rams last august when my tank crashed. They were almost breeding size to... Awesome looking rams m.lemay, good luck with them!
E.Simpson, rams are generally pretty easy going, except for when there breeding, then they can get territorial. They should be fine for your setup, but they tend to be rather picky about water conditions, so buy from a breeder, instead of a local shop. Your chances will be greatly improved by doing so.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I've been watching my 2 mating pairs of rams get a little territorial and they paired up. One pair just spawned and the male and female take turns guarding them from the other pair. This is soooo cool.  

I've been doing a lot of reading on water conditions and I think I got the tank where its supposed to be for success. Ph of 6.0, TDS around 80ppm, and kh 1, GH 1. I have naturally soft water with kh 1 gh 2 and TDS around 120. I managed to bring it down further with some peat in the filter. I'm hatching some brine shrimp now for when the babys hatch. 

I'd like to move the other pair into thier own tank but that ones still cycling with a bunch of guppies. 

Does anybody know if the other pair will jeapordize the frys success. :?: 

Any other tips you guys can give me will be greatly appreciated.

Marcel


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Holy crap :!: The other pair just spawned in the same tank. Now I got 2 pairs of rams protecting 2 territories in a 10 gal tank. What should I do? Help :shock: 

Marcel


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Wow... I didn't think two pairs would fit in a 10 gal tank... isn't there some overlapping?
I just moved my male Ram into the 100g tank, and he is quite happy with the two beautiful ladies in there. As soon as he comes near, they start nervously cleaning whatever surface is close to impress him...
Unfortunately my water is too hard to expect any success. But watching them in their most amazing colors since I had them is quite rewarding. About to pull out my camera... hope you can post some pics too!


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## Synapse (Sep 9, 2003)

I really envy you all, here the Rams we get don't usually live over one month...recently bought 4 and only one survived :? 

mysterious sickness? over breeding? 

if anyone could suggest a good source above the border i'd realy like to know!


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I lost one ram, although he was eating some he got thinner and thinner and finally died. Two others I have for a couple of months now and they are doing fine, the third one as well. Looks like some are already sick when they are sold... 2la mentioned lymphocystis, I think internal parasites could play a role too.
Of course... they like clean water, nice and warm temperatures, and a variety of food, so that helps too :wink:


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Thats awesome Marcel !  

Well either let nature take its course or get ya butt down to the LFS and get a 10 gallon divider for that tank. They have them with the small holes that will allow water flow. It might save you from some fierce battles. 

I sure hope you have a place to keep the young if they are successful ... but remember, if you need space, I might have room for a few... :wink: 

Good luck bro, keep us posted.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I got rid of the guppies that were in the second tank. 

I'm debating wether I should move just both sets of eggs to the extra tank or move one set of parents with thier respective eggs? Any suggestions?

Marcel


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Wasserpest said:


> I lost one ram, although he was eating some he got thinner and thinner and finally died. Two others I have for a couple of months now and they are doing fine, the third one as well. Looks like some are already sick when they are sold... 2la mentioned lymphocystis, I think internal parasites could play a role too.


In your case it was almost certainly an internal parasite. Lymphocystis manifests externally as little white lesions on the fins and skin.


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

Marcel,

Welcome to the world of RAM SPAWNING!!!!!!!

Good luck with your fry and let me know if you can get any of them to get a bit older. I have my Q tank fully cycled and ready for new spawn eggs once it happens...if the calendar is any indication I should have some here shortly within the next two days.

mike


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

> ...if the calendar is any indication I should have some here shortly within the next two days.


How often can I expect a pair to spawn based on your experience?This is my first spawn , I'm wondering when the next chance will be if this one doesn't work out.

Marcel


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

Marcel,

My Rams spawn every 8 days or so. I have one male and two females. The only change I have made in the tank between this schedule of spawning is now I have reduced my temps back down to 80 degrees to see how that goes. Ill keep ya posted.

BTW...you will have the eggs for 24-36 hours IME then it will seem as though they disappear. They havent...its just that the fry have hatched...they are IMMOBILE! Remember they will just sit there and wiggle til they get strong enough. THEY ARE TINY!

Are you moving them somewhere you can watch like a net breeder or tiny tank? IME it is tough to watch in anything but something small.

Good Luck!

Mike


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I'm not sure if this batch is gonna make it. A spawn every 8 days, is encouraging. I'll get plenty of opportunities to get it right.  

Thanks


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## Guttboy (Jul 19, 2003)

Marcel,

Thats 8 days for 1 male with 2 females. So if your active males hit up your females you could get the same results!

Mike


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

The eggs are starting to hatch :!: Pretty cool 8) 
A lot of the eggs are getting fungus, even with the low PH of 6.0.

Next spawning, I got it all figured out. :wink: 
I'm gonna get a 1 gallon glass jar with an aerator, some methylene blue to keep the fungus off the eggs in the fry hatching jar, and some of that low ph water from the ram tank . I'll be able to watch the eggs hatch and not have to worry about them falling into the gravel. 

I got a tank divider in the love tank to keep the 2 pairs seperated along with a piece of love slate in each section for them to do thier thing. Once they spawn I move the slate into the incubating jar. Once they become free swimming I'll move them into the other 10 gal tank to be raised.

I'm now in the process of obtaining the stuff I'm gonna need to get this operation underway.  


Marcel


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## DLeDeaux (Dec 27, 2002)

Ok, you're having WAY too much fun with this. Where can I get my very own pair of breeding rams? My wife loves the look of the fish and has given me her blessing to buy some. :bounce:


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Aquabid has some for bid all the time. Thats where I got mine. The breeder that sold them to me was awesome and he did a terrific job packing them.

Or you can wait till I got some raised....  

Marcel


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## DLeDeaux (Dec 27, 2002)

Hmm .. how long does it take before they are ready to sell? I have a couple of 10's in a stand but I need to cycle them.

Also, is it ok for fish to be uhm ... inbred?


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## jojomichael (Sep 16, 2003)

m.lemay said:


> Aquabid has some for bid all the time. Thats where I got mine. The breeder that sold them to me was awesome and he did a terrific job packing them...


What's the name of the seller?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Dledeaux: The inbreeding thing doesn't really become an issue for 5-6 generations. After that it's probably a good idea to introduce new stock. Most domestics are very "inbred" for specific color traits. I'm not sure if mine are german or wild. I'm not sure how long before they're ready to sell but I'd have to say 3-4 months at least. I was just kidding about buying them from me. :wink: 

Jojo: the sellers handle is "Praetor" on AquaBid.

Marcel


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## 2la (Aug 18, 2002)

Marcel, yours are a bred strain. "German" or not, I don't know.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

The first pair of rams eggs are hatching and the mom and dad moved all the wigglers to a pit on a piece of driftwood. So far they're doing an awesome job of watching over the eggs. I have some infusoria culture started yesterday, I hope it'll be ready when these guys are. I put the culture in a jar in the window. I also have java moss in that tank for infusorians. From this point forward I'll be leaving the lights on so the parents can watch over the young ones. This sucks I'm leaving this weekend I'll have to coach my girl on what to do. I also have some microworms coming that should be here on friday or saturday. So much to think about. 


Also the second pair just spawned and they're fanning the eggs. 

I'm trying to parent raise this batch because I don't have everything I need yet to seperate everybody. I'm really fascinated by the rearing behavior of the parents. 

Marcel


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

The rams are exhibiting terrific parental instincts, fanning the hatchlings and moving them around the tank. This has got to be the most fun I've had with my fish ever. 
I was looking at a 40 gal breeder tank at the LFS :roll: I'm gonna need something to keep and raise all the babies in. :lol: 

Marcel


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Seems like you are converting from a "Planted Tank Guy" to a fish breeder :fish: Nevermind, I am just envious because my Rams are just looking at each other...


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I'm sorry  ..........NOT. 


I haven't converted.....Now, I'm both.


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## Seamaiden (Nov 3, 2003)

New person here (linked from reefs.org), and I just noticed the above lament regarding the 40 breeder. If you're cash strapped, what about considering something simple and cheap like a Rubbermaid translucent container? We use those things all the time for saltwater q/t, chemically inert, and when not being used you can stack 'em. Just a suggestion (although watch heaters, but a bit of drilled PVC can take care of that right quick).


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Seamaiden: Welcome to the board!
Theres still room in the 2 10 gal tanks till these guys get bigger. The plastic tub is a good idea which is probably what I'll end up doing but I did have my heart set on a grow out tank. Since all this is happening in my office/fish room, I think a glass tank would look a lot better. But in the end it might be a question of economics and a plastic tub is definitelty an option.
I've got about 300 fry free swimming now. The parents are looking after thier fry like pros. 
The real challenge is gonna be feeding these guys. Both 10 gal tanks are well established planted tanks with java moss and lots of plant detritus and algae growing on glass and driftwood. I hope the infusorians in this will keep these guys fed till they get big enough to eat bbs. I also got an infusorian culture going but it aint ready yet. I got a microworm culture going but it'll be a couple days befor I can get enough worms to make a difference. So I'm crossing my fingers and hoping these guys will be big enough and be able to wait till tomorrow for some bbs. I've been feeding the parents and they seem to be chewing the flake food and spitting it back out for the youngens. I'll have an update soon. 


Marcel


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Sorry for whining, but I WANT TO SEE A PICTURE!!! to share the joy.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Heres a pic of the rams with the fry: .


http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/m....t/lst?&.dir=/German+Blue+Rams&.src=ph&.view=t


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## digger (Feb 18, 2003)

Aww, that picture seems to be inaccessable. How about posting it here?


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

Try it now !


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Aaawww a bunch of little cute squiggly worms... thanks, and may they all reach advanced age!


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## aeternum23 (Sep 17, 2003)

Very, very nice  . Hopefully my rams will begin spawning sometime soon. They're still rather small right now, but they're fattening up nicely.


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## depthC (Oct 9, 2003)

Great job on getting them to spawn it didnt take you long. But i have a few questions regarding your whole setup as for future reference to spawn my own rams

1. Are you using r/o water? Also how do you measure your TDS(total dissolved solids)level?
2. What foods are you feeding the parents to condition them?

- depthC


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

My tap water is pretty soft here. 80ppm TDS. I use a TDS meter to measure TDS. Rams like very soft low PH ,6.0 or less, water. I just got the AP "TAP WATER FILTER" which is a carbon/deionizer which is giving me 0 TDS water. I just started using it for water changes and I'm gradually lowering The TDS and I also use peat in the filter. If your tap water is really hard you'll probably have to get an RO unit to get these guys to hatch and survive. The "TAP WATER FILTER" can get costly if your tap water is very hard. Some people also use rain water filtered thru peat to get low TDS water.

As far as food goes, for conditioning them to spawn, nothing special. A good flake food and occasionally some frozen blood worms. I noticed they'll usually spawn after a water change.


Marcel


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## NyCzBuBba (Nov 16, 2003)

How much do the German blue rams go for usually? How do you tell if they are male or female? My LFS sells them for 5$ each


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

$5 is cheap if they come from a local breeder. 
If they come from Asia $5 is too much. They're raised on hormones and medications to amplify thier colors. And most of them are so stressed by the time they get here from Asia that you'd be lucky if they make it 2 weeks in your tank.

Generally speaking, females are smaller and they get a red belly when they're ready to spawn. Thiere are other indicators, none of which were helpful to me when I was trying to sex my rams. If you read this whole thread, you'll see some other indicators. Some of those indicators might be effective for some strains but not all.


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

I got about 25 survivor fry that are growing well. I'm feeding microworms right now and just started the bbs hatchery. I tried feeding bbs a few days ago but the bbs were a little big for them still.

I got another spawn going in another tank and the parents are fanning away. These rams are turning out to be pretty good parents. I've learned, with my rams, that I should remove both parents once the fry become free swimming for 24 hrs. After about 24 hours the parents turn on thier kids and eat em :twisted: These are some horny rams :lol: The breeder sent me 2 mating pairs that had already paired up before they were sent to me. I didn't know which was which when I got them so I threw all 4 in a 10 gal tank and they paired up within a couple of days. Cool stuff.

Marcel


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## E. Simpson (Oct 18, 2003)

I think I might have been buying those asian Rams or something since I had 3 of them die in a row.I finally got a new male to acclimate successfuly though and it has already hooked up with the female I already had.They laid eggs on some rocks the other day but within a couple hours they were all gone.I don't know for sure which fish ate them but I suspect a couple cory's I have might be the ones.The parents didn't seem to be guarding the eggs at all.

Maybe in a few more weeks they will do it again.The next time I will take the eggs out(syphon them?).



Ernie


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## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

If you really want to breed these guys, its best to get a species specific tank just for the rams. Once they get the hang of it the parents will raise the fry on there own with no predators. I've gotten my rams to raise the eggs to free swimming stage, then I just remove the parents from the tank and raise the fry myself. The hard part is keeping the eggs from getting fungused if you try to raise them on your own, but the parents will do that for you by sorting thru the unfertilized eggs and removing them. My rams do a great job of getting them to free swimming stage but after about 48 hours of free swimming they eat the babies. :twisted: So to avoid that I just remove the parents. Raising the fry is fairly straight forward.

Marcel


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

great job Marcel....rams are definately an intriguing fish and to breed them brings it to a whole new level ! 

Ummmm, its a long drive man, how about a photo of the new little Marcel Ram Family for the ole buckster huh ?? :wink: 

Oh yeh and while Im thinkin of it , are our canopies done yet ? Im on my way to Waterbury at the drop of a hat ! :lol:


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