# Lower cost substrate



## TheJohnner (Jan 2, 2009)

Has anyone used "AquariumPlants.com's own: Freshwater Planted Aquarium Substrate"? Is this stuff good. I think I read some where in here that it is light and doesn't hold plant roots well. Is this true? Would it be wise to use this with a little ADA Amazonia on top to weigh it down? This stuff is much cheaper.

http://www.aquariumplants.com/product_p/ss.htm

- John


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## fshfanatic (Apr 20, 2006)

want a cheap good substrate? Use SMS. Look up Lesco. I use it and it is great stuff


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## chase127 (Jun 8, 2008)

i think its been determined that aquariumplants.com own subs IS soil master select(SMS) so it'll be even cheaper to find it in your area


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Can't get much cheaper than making your own Mineralized Soil; see the sticky at the top of the fourm. :thumbsup:


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## erijnal (Jun 19, 2006)

Also want to chime in here: it's probably not the best idea to mix substrates. Most of the substrate products that are specifically made for planted aquariums (not talking about materials such as peat and laterite, but about Flourite, AquaSoil, etc) were probably not mined/made for the purpose of mixing with other products.

In fact, the idea of putting a heavier (read: more dense) substrate on top of a light substrate wouldn't pan out because eventually the less dense material would find its way to the top.


That said, there are some VERY successful tanks that use an enriched underlayer with a substrate cap like SoilMaster Select or ColorQuartz. Going that route would probably be the most cost-effective if you're willing to do some research and get your hands dirty.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

erijnal said:


> Also want to chime in here: it's probably not the best idea to mix substrates. Most of the substrate products that are specifically made for planted aquariums (not talking about materials such as peat and laterite, but about Flourite, AquaSoil, etc) were probably not mined/made for the purpose of mixing with other products.
> 
> In fact, the idea of putting a heavier (read: more dense) substrate on top of a light substrate wouldn't pan out because eventually the less dense material would find its way to the top.
> 
> ...


This is so true, mixing substrates will not do any harm and I believe some do it to save on costs. Some people may have a bag of expensive substrate laying around and want to set up another tank but it is insufficient and they may not be able to pay the high cost for another bag. The issue of the less dense substrate migrating to the top only ends up creating an aesthetic issue. I don't believe it negatively effects plant growth, but someone can correct me if I am wrong.

I agree with you that the alternative mineralized soil method is a cost-effective method if you are prepared to be patient before and after creating the substrate. You have to soak and dry the soil several times, and sometimes for much longer, especially if your soil may not be quite the right type. Then when you use it there may be a short/temporary period where you may end up with algae outbreaks or green water which will eventually go away. Some may not be prepared to wait out this period. Sometimes, there may be difficulty in obtaining all the necessary ingredients. Torpedobarb sells pre-made packages of mineralized topsoil, but he does that in season and shipping costs if you live outside US may not make it cost effective.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I don't see any issue at all with mixing substrates, especially if you understand the properties of those substrates (you have a plan!) and the aesthetics don't bother you.

I've got mixed substrates in most of my tanks.


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## TheJohnner (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks for the input.

Johnner


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## Echinodorus (Dec 5, 2008)

Very good topic!:thumbsup:

Is there any regular organic substrate sold at Home Depot or wall Mart that we can use as a substrate for the planted aquarium :icon_ques
Please let me know the brand and name so I can check that out.

Is there any better way to mix substrates:icon_ques

Any excelent on-line articles on the topic:icon_ques

It hurts a lot to give that much money for those ADA Amazonia stuff!

thanks


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Echinodorus said:


> ...
> 
> Any excelent on-line articles on the topic...


Some of the content in these is controversial and debatable but IMHO, these are still excellent articles.

http://www.rexgrigg.com/substrate.htm
http://www.101freshwateraquarium.com/substrate/19
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_substrate.htm
http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/plantcare/a/plantsubstrate.htm


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## 125gallon (Aug 28, 2008)

*AquariumPlants.com's own Substrate*

In my 29 gallon i'm using eco complete, plants are easy to bed because it settles right back around the plant stem. I am using AquariumPlants.com's own: Freshwater Planted Aquarium Substrate in my 125 gallon, and yes it is very light. Plants are a little difficult to bed, but once they have rooted they are fine. I favor eco complete over AquariumPlants.com's own. But, both work, and both are expensive.


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## Echinodorus (Dec 5, 2008)

Homer_Simpson said:


> Some of the content in these is controversial and debatable but IMHO, these are still excellent articles.
> 
> http://www.rexgrigg.com/substrate.htm
> http://www.101freshwateraquarium.com/substrate/19
> ...


Thanks a lot!

What would be the controversial and debatable topics :icon_ques
What articles do we find those topics :icon_ques

cheers.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Echinodorus said:


> Thanks a lot!
> 
> What would be the controversial and debatable topics :icon_ques
> What articles do we find those topics :icon_ques
> ...


You are welcome. The controversial topics in a couple of those articles relates to the use of soil and sand as a substrate. It is ill advised. But the mineralized topsoil method and Diana Walstad's natural planted tank method clearly demonstrate that it is possible to grow beautiful aquarium plants using soil. Tom Barr has also succesfully grown plants using soil. Also, there are many people who have grown absolutely beautiful plants including deep rooting plants using pool filter sand and in some cases play sand. One of my tanks makes use of pool filter sand and it is even a smaller grain size than the recommended 2-3 mm and I have yet to see any compaction issues or hydrogen sulphide pockets. The plants including the deep rooters continue to do well and the tank has been up and running for approximately 8 months.


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## cott (May 26, 2007)

Chris just answered the question I just posted.......this substrate is the same as SMS. Wish they would bother telling people that. I hated SMS and almost got stuck buying this stuff which would have been like getting SMS again.

At Lesco's, I paid $23 for 2-50 lb bags and I really don't need an expensive pail. LOL


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## fishwolfe (Jan 14, 2009)

do you have a part# for lescoe?or could you link the page?i tried searching sms and soil master select,nothing.what about it do you dislike?


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## cott (May 26, 2007)

I found a Lesco dealer about an hour from me and had him order it for me. He ended up having to get a whole pallet of it and hope he was able to sell it to others or would get stuck with the rest of it.

My problem was dust. I mean dust for months. It would settle on top and even corys swimming around would stir it up sending it all over the plants. I've talked with a few that had this problem and others didn't have this problem at all. Go figure.

The vac also easily pulled it up and I had a sink full everytime I cleaned. Maybe mixing it with a fine gravel would work better or topping it off with gravel.


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## TheJohnner (Jan 2, 2009)

*sms and sera??*

So, I'm still looking around and researching substrate. I am thinking of using SMS or something similar and mixing in a nutrient product. Checkout this link. Has anyone heard of this or used it? Could it be mixed in with sms or something similar? http://www.sera-usa.com/product.php?productid=16270&cat=396&page=1

- Johnner


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## Fat Man (Nov 2, 2006)

I stumbled on the AquariumPlants.com substrate and saw I could get free shipping. I searched this forum and found this thread, it's been helpful. It looks like I'll look for SMS around here. I currently have a low tech tank that I switched from a pool sand substrate to Schultz Aquatic Potting soil. I have an 80 gallon I'm going to up-grade to and was looking for a darker substrate.



erijnal said:


> Also want to chime in here:.........
> 
> In fact, the idea of putting a heavier (read: more dense) substrate on top of a light substrate wouldn't pan out because eventually the less dense material would find its way to the top.



Let me chime in here too. Less dense particles don't necessarily migrate to the top. It's the larger particles that will move to the top, look up the _Brazil Nut Effect_, I don't believe density plays a role in this aspect. It does play a role, IMO, in getting the plants situated. My Apistos and BN keep knocking stuff lose in The Schultz's. When I upgrade I think I probably grow things emersed or just let them become more established before I put my favorites in.


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## suebe333 (Feb 17, 2009)

cott said:


> I found a Lesco dealer about an hour from me and had him order it for me. He ended up having to get a whole pallet of it and hope he was able to sell it to others or would get stuck with the rest of it.
> 
> *My problem was dust. I mean dust for months. It would settle on top and even corys swimming around would stir it up sending it all over the plants. I've talked with a few that had this problem and others didn't have this problem at all. Go figure.*
> 
> *The vac also easily pulled it up and I had a sink full everytime I cleaned. Maybe mixing it with a fine gravel would work better or topping it off with gravel*.


 so you had this problem with the SMS ? or with what you were using before? :icon_redf


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