# 120 gallon project



## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

welcome to the site!


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Good evening, firstly I suggest joining us over on UKaps, the uks sole planted tank forum.
Secondly I would like to point out that you can make _vast_ savings just by buying non branded euro stock.
For example I got a co2 kit for £80 including diffuser and solenoid. 
Eco complete isn't as good as columbo flora grow base layer or oliver knotts product.

Lighting wise you could (and in my opinion should) drop the blue tubes, we're not making a reef here. 
You could drop a halide comfortably too, or LEDs from tmc, half the electricity costs straight away.
Filters wise the fx5's are good but will need the filter tubes changing, I've got one that I don't use and you can gain 500lph just by getting rid of the ribbed tubing. 
Unless the room gets very very cold you could probably use one heater. 
Without checking I think you might actually need an extra powerhead, with big tanks aiming for 15x turnover is a good idea, if not better, the more flow we throw at tanks the better our plant growth tends to be, just like reefs we're realising the significance of flow in the tank. I've had 30x turnover on one tank and it was easily the best behaved, and I never once had the ridiculous statement people often say where they say "oh 10x turnover is way too much it keeps pulling my plants up". It just means they didn't do a good job of planting 

The biggest thing I read that sends alarm bells ringing is your avoidence of stems, with so much light you're asking for algae trouble, stems are fantastic because they strip the water quickly, crpyts ferns etc dont need such light and grow slowly and you will always struggle to maintain them with such light because you'll be walking on a knifes edge where if you don't have enough co2 or ferts you'll get nuked, especially as you'll be mixing you gravel with an already less than equal base, I'd be wanting to get as much nutrients into the base to help give you extra wiggle room while you're getting used to everything. 

I'm sure there's more but I don't want to swamp you. I'll read and think but I'd strongly recommend joining UKaps.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Here's two inspirational threads to whet your whistle. And give you insights into other peoples experiences with similarly huge tanks. 
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4593&hilit=james+discus+tank
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=571


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Welcome to TPT!

I agree, that's an awful lot of light for this tank. I'm guessing you're trying to avoid stems b/c they will be so much work to trim? But I agree with Garuf that you'll probably struggle to balance out the tank that way since the lighting is so high. You might incorporate some floating plants instead; that should still leave the tank on the lower maintenance side yet provide light control for the tank.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

thanks for that garuf
i will look into the other substrates for sure

the blue light came built into the halide rig but i presumed they were there to add the blue spectrum lacking in the halides?

the blues are seperately switchable so i could leave them switched off if they arent giving any specific benefits to the plants

with regards ton the stems i was talking more about the serious prune hungry varieties like ludwigia and cobombas etc im am adding some other stems but i havnt really set out any for sure 

the set list on order now are

10 wisteria
20 hygrophila polysperma
20 java fern to grow in and between the bogwood in the shady areas
35 hairgrass bunches to form a carpet throughout all the open areas
10 anubias also for the shady areas beneath the midforground plants and the bogwood
and some anubias nana which im planning on securing within the cracks and crevices of the bogwood.

some other stems im interested in are 

background behind the bogwood:

alternanthera rieneckii (red hygrophila)
echinodorus bleheri (broadleaf amazon sword)
rotala indica (dwarf rotala)
heteranthera zosterifolia (stargrass)

forground with the hairgrass:

echinodorus tenellus (pigmy chain sword)
sagittaria platyplylla (giant sagittaria)
several crypt varieties for mid forground beneath and around the bogwood


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Where are you ordering from?
The most rampant plants are some of the ones you've just bought.
I'm guessing by your plant list you're buying from plantsalive or java plants? My advice, forget it.
by my merits you're still lacking some plants, I used 35 on a 2footx1foot tank, that times 6 is some crazy number of pots.

I personally would wait and read more, get a scape sorted and then go back to your plants, the few species the better initially. Get a good grasp on things then work back in. 

You sounds very serious and your equipment suggests similarly, the best thing you can do is research an aesthetic, look back into it and at the same time always be looking at what is good and people recommend, get to grips with co2 the science of fertilising and light. It's a lot to digest and anything set up while learning will inevitably suffer.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

hi laura 
yes its really the maintainace thing with the super fast growers.
because the tank will be so bare above the bogwood i do want a stem wall but im really after some manageable foliage

i presumed the polysperma would create a good bush behind the wood along with the wisteria as they will not get the full light until they are up above the bogwood which in some places is 20" high 

so i was thinking if polysperma will grow in almost any condition it should easily thrive behind the wood where it will be getting about half the open areas light.

there will be several areas in the tank where there will be very thick planting so im hoping to outpace the algae but im open to any good nutrient filtering species that will keep things in check


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Hmm, the idea of out pacing algae is very out dated, it holds weight but it really is outmoded. Really, the key thing to understand is limiting of ammonia, the importance of flow and co2. And realising you don't need a tonne of light. 

polysperma is the fastest growing plant so much so that it's often used as a way of seeing difficiencies early on before other less telling plants show because the growth and up take is so fast that it shows things first.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

yes garuf i agree completely
thats why i have only initially ordered the hardy foliage just now and i will bring more in as i go

aquascape wise ive already figured things out but its really just the backgound planting im more wary of as it could end up as a wilderness while all the mid forground struggles to catch up

alot of the wisteria and swords are being transfered from my 4ft so im treating that as a rooting tank at the moment along with most of the anubias and some of the java ferns


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

Filters wise the fx5's are good but will need the filter tubes changing, I've got one that I don't use and you can gain 500lph just by getting rid of the ribbed tubing. 
Unless the room gets very very cold you could probably use one heater. 
Without checking I think you might actually need an extra powerhead, 


1 
yes i have ordered new 25mm hose to replace the ribbed stuff and ive worked a y connection into the outlet to allow 2 16mm hoses from the one 25mm this way i can setup the inline heaters without ristricting the flow from the output hose and i will probably use the 2 seperately to create different flow paths in the tank

2
i was told that i would definately need 2 300w heaters for the tank as its 512 ltrs?

i can always send one back but i presumed the pair would be needed


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## Rivermud (Jan 2, 2010)

The pair is only needed for redundancy. I'd keep the second heater.


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## FISHSHROD (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up on the FX5 hose garuf.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

aquascape ebay said:


> 1
> yes i have ordered new 25mm hose to replace the ribbed stuff and ive worked a y connection into the outlet to allow 2 16mm hoses from the one 25mm this way i can setup the inline heaters without ristricting the flow from the output hose and i will probably use the 2 seperately to create different flow paths in the tank
> 
> 2
> ...


I'm with you, it's a very sensible move, something that I simply don't understand why fluval don't do. Regarding the outlet it was something I intended to do but never got around to, the only issue I can imagine would be the pipes would have to have the same lengths and resistances to prevent all the water shooting down one and a trickle going down the other. 
I don't have the flow rates for a Fx5 on hand and I can't remember but will two reach the magic base line of 10x the volume every hour, ie, 15200lph? Hydor internal powerheads or external pumps would be what you'd need to up the flow to meet this magic recommended base line, but even then the more the better, especially in bigger tanks where dead spots and low flow accross the substrate can become a real issue. 

It really depends on the ambient temperature of your house in the depths of winter, because of the super high turnover of the pumps and the efficiency of the heaters I would imagine you would only need the one, it's better to have two however as a back up but I personally think if your house is kept at around 20degrees c then one filter should easily cope with the 4c increase in temperature, I can heat 60l with a 1200lph filter from 14c to 24c in 3 minutes so I imagine it's enough. If you've already got it it's best to use it though, makes perfect sense to have a back up.


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## fishscale (May 29, 2007)

Fishscale demands the posting of pictures of said awesome tank.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

fishscale said:


> Fishscale demands the posting of pictures of said awesome tank.


 
i know im dying to get things rockin too but the tanks not arriving for a few days yet and i cant start doin anything until ive got the beast:icon_smil


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

the fx5s arrived today!
crikey they are huge! should just about work round the tank stand.
obviously they came with no media so i am looking for a cheap but effective solution?
im guessing ceramic rings would be the best all rounder but is there a low cost version?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Fluvals are designed to be used with predominately sponge media, that meant for ponds is the best and most cost effective way of doing it. 

If you stock very lightly for the tank size (not the most desirable thing, but good in terms of the aesthetics of a scape) You can get away with using a very very pourous sintered glass media (the best available) in just one filter.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

just found 4kg of ceramic rings for 24 quid on ebay so there on their way to me now i will probably add different media to the seperate baskets :icon_lol:

is it truly useful to add carbon with this setup?
i am more than willing to buy some but constantly replacing it does eat into your pocket in the longrun


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

I tried carbon in my FX5. Its purpose was to remove tannins. I have since then switched to Purigen in my tanks using carbon. It's rechargeable and more effective and is supposed to not remove trace minerals in any significant amount. The bonus is that your water will be clearer than you have ever seen. In a big tank with a lot of depth, that's important.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> I tried carbon in my FX5. Its purpose was to remove tannins. I have since then switched to Purigen in my tanks using carbon. It's rechargeable and more effective and is supposed to not remove trace minerals in any significant amount. The bonus is that your water will be clearer than you have ever seen. In a big tank with a lot of depth, that's important.


have you got that bagged up in the fx5 then and are you using one whole basket for it? or more?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

aquascape ebay said:


> have you got that bagged up in the fx5 then and are you using one whole basket for it? or more?


You have to use Seachem's "The Bag" with it as the media very very fine. I run the following in my FX5:

Lower basket: 6 -7 potscrubbers (yes, those plastic multi colour thingies)
Middle basket: 1 bag Seachem Matrix and small bag PurigenTop
Upper basket: 1 bag Seachem Matrix and 1 small bag Coral gravel (soon to be replaced with crushed coral - for buffering since my local water source is very soft).


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Just a heads up that in almost every Uk application coral sand is a massive no no, ever where waters soft it's pretty hard. 
Purigen is fantastic stuff, carbon strips ferts and is expensive. 
Dependent on your stocking you can't go wrong with sintered glass, I don't mean to push it but it really is the best stuff for a large turnover filter because of it's structure. 

Where in the Uk are you by the way?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

garuf said:


> Just a heads up that in almost every Uk application coral sand is a massive no no, ever where waters soft it's pretty hard.


yeah, I should have added that caveat. My local water source is rainfall/snowmelt (Home of the 2010 Olympics!) so GH and KH is generally 1 degree, so you will probably want to skip the coral sand.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf said:


> Just a heads up that in almost every Uk application coral sand is a massive no no, ever where waters soft it's pretty hard.
> Purigen is fantastic stuff, carbon strips ferts and is expensive.
> Dependent on your stocking you can't go wrong with sintered glass, I don't mean to push it but it really is the best stuff for a large turnover filter because of it's structure.
> 
> Where in the Uk are you by the way?


north wales

i havnt personally had real issues with water hardness although it is on the slightly hard side (7.4) from the tap
i added peat to the trickle filter in my 4ft but it only reduces my water by .2

i have heard good things about r/o units but havnt had any experience with them myself
i was reading a thread in the forum from a discus keeper whos r/o unit failed without him noticing and he added an 8.4 30% water change into his discus community the shock killed almost all the fish within 10 minutes and soon lost 3/4 of his plantwork :icon_cry:
ironically the only fish that survived were the discus

the only thing with the sintered glass is that you say about stock levels and im hoping to keep a good stock as its my main display tank

i am definately going for the purigen though:icon_cool
does it act in the same way as carbon with regards to fish medications and rendering them useless
i only ask as i plan to store a hospital setup underneath my main tank but if for some reason i end up needing to dose the whole tank would i need to remove the purigen?


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

aquascape ebay said:


> i am definately going for the purigen though:icon_cool
> does it act in the same way as carbon with regards to fish medications and rendering them useless
> i only ask as i plan to store a hospital setup underneath my main tank but if for some reason i end up needing to dose the whole tank would i need to remove the purigen?


According to Seachem, it only removes organics: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Purigen.html

But I'm sure others can speak up. I've not used any medication since I started using Purigen a year ago, so I don't have any first hand experience in that aspect.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

I'd remove the Purigen if medicating a tank.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I wouldn't ever recommend meidcating your main tank. But then that's personal preference. 
If you're in North wales it's well worth a visit to the green machine. 
Just don't buy anything why you're there unless you know you actually need/want it it's VERY expensive and you can easily get overwhelmed into buying stuff you don't need/want/can buy for half as much from ebay elsewhere. 
Sintered really is the best option, fx5's are big filters and use lots of foam so you really need a biological media with lots of room for bacteria colonising. 
I personally would half stock your tank initially, but only once the plants are well on the way and there's no algae, fish cause a lot of problems when fighting algae. 
It's always a good idea to to for the lower end of a tanks stocking, it just makes things easier, a good fish selection lowly stocked can be 10x more awe inspiring than a mixed bag where it looks like a mbuna.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf said:


> I wouldn't ever recommend meidcating your main tank. But then that's personal preference.
> If you're in North wales it's well worth a visit to the green machine.
> Just don't buy anything why you're there unless you know you actually need/want it it's VERY expensive and you can easily get overwhelmed into buying stuff you don't need/want/can buy for half as much from ebay elsewhere.
> Sintered really is the best option, fx5's are big filters and use lots of foam so you really need a biological media with lots of room for bacteria colonising.
> ...


yes i have been meaning to go there for a while
like you say the cost of goods from there is pretty serious
i got a quote for the co2 system from there it worked out £380 for a full setup with inline reactor 
i get almost all my plants from ebay. because i run an ebay shop i just use paypal to fund my aqaurium goods which works out well.
i have bought the 2 fx5s the halide rig i got for £103 on bids 
the guy is selling the same unit buy it now for £479 i couldnt believe my luck when i won it!

i have a 4ft tank running now with embers some rams keyhole harlequins etc in, im planning on transfering that stock in first over a couple of weeks and then very gradually introducing some new fish.

so it doesnt look like a mess im gonna stick mainly with the species ive got but just bulk up the numbers of tetras to very large shoals

and hopefully introduce some discus after around 5-6 months

would my 7.4ph be a tall order with the discus?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

aquascape ebay said:


> would my 7.4ph be a tall order with the discus?


Not if you can find some locally-bred.

That's actually the pH on Jack Wattley's discus farm over in Miami. He uses RO water when breeding/raising fry, but the adults are acclimated to harder water.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

lauraleellbp said:


> Not if you can find some locally-bred.
> 
> That's actually the pH on Jack Wattley's discus farm over in Miami. He uses RO water when breeding/raising fry, but the adults are acclimated to harder water.


would it be worth adding an r/o unit to my setup?
also does it remove chlorine or just neutralise the water?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Ro isn't essentially vital these days, it's only really a wild fish thing.
Yeah TGM is a massive rip off but then all the stuff in fish keeping is, hunt round and bargains are to be had. 
Their advice sucks too, they don't believe in EI and will try and make you buy ADA stuff every single time, which makes me very angry when ever I go but you know...
Did you join Ukaps? We've got some discus keepers on there that'd help you much better than I ever could 2 or 3 local hobbyists to you too who'll help no end with scaping. 
I've never had any luck with ebay plants, the quality always sucks and I can never get the plants I want/need in large enough quantities and always feel let down when they arrive. Planted box are the best and cheapest plants you can get these days, fluidsensor are very good too. Aquaessentials and TGM priced themselves out of the market years ago.
The inline reactors from Germany are the best ones, the aquaversiansd ones, the far eastern inline diffusers are really really very good too because they produce loads of co2 mist which is brilliant for plants. All about the science for me. 
The cheapest equipment from the continent is almost always superior to what we can buy, the cost is the biggest sway for me. Regulator solenoid tubing... everything but some nice glass diffuser for £70 a 5th of the price of something branded over here is amazing.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

For the fish you intend to keep I'd say no, extra cost and when doing 75gallon water changes is soon adds up. It makes no difference to almost all plants.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

RO water is usually only necessary if you've got REALLY bad tap water or if you're wanting to keep/breed sensitive, specialized fish or plants.

You probably don't need it.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Tonias are the only plants that would require RO to the best of my knowledge, they're non existant on this side of the pond so I don't suppose it'd matter.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf said:


> Ro isn't essentially vital these days, it's only really a wild fish thing.
> Yeah TGM is a massive rip off but then all the stuff in fish keeping is, hunt round and bargains are to be had.
> Their advice sucks too, they don't believe in EI and will try and make you buy ADA stuff every single time, which makes me very angry when ever I go but you know...
> Did you join Ukaps? We've got some discus keepers on there that'd help you much better than I ever could 2 or 3 local hobbyists to you too who'll help no end with scaping.
> ...


i did join the forum but i still havnt had the confirmation email?
i joined the night you mensioned it

i will try again later


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

just a quick update to say that the wooden stand and hood are almost built including fixture of the metal halide rig within the hood roud:

should be collecting the tank shortly so almost ready to set things up

both the fx5s have arrived and all the new pipework ready to convert the ribbed piping to the smooth pvc hose 

just a quick question

if i set up the tank with all the stem plants will i need to immediately set up the co2 or could i set that up within the following 2 weeks?

i have 60 polysperma stems going in
40 red variety polyspema stems
several huge java fern 
15 wisteria stems

i have all the eco complete (black) 50kgs and 40kgs of black gravel to mix in.

the 2 hydors are here too but i may only plumb 1 in as i think there will be a noticable heat increase from the halides

also will it matter if i soak and cycle the bogwood within the tank while the plants are in there?

im in no hurry to add livestock so the tannins wont matter from that respect bu i wondered if they will harm any plants


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

All the plants you mentioned are pretty hardy and I think will do OK if you go ahead and add them before you get CO2. Just keep your lighting and/or photoperiod low till you do.

If your wood throws off tons of tannins while you're soaking it, keep in mind that those will block light from the plants, though. Some options would be to keep up water changes, throw carbon/purigen in your filter to absorb the tannins, or just float the plants so they're closer to the light.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I personally would use a spare tank with your co2 and ferts and some lights on to grow out the stems then I'd use the big tank to soak the wood without interupting anything. 
The one thing I would say is the number of stems you have probably isn't even enough for a 10gallon tank. Providing you have the spare parts to treat your plants like this to give yourself time you'll be fine. 
I'd be so very worried about halides in a hood but that's because I'm so used to open topped tanks. 

Stems are the most hungry of plants and leaving them without co2 will leave them unhealthy and put you on a back foot instantly, it'd be like asking for algae. :/


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf said:


> I personally would use a spare tank with your co2 and ferts and some lights on to grow out the stems then I'd use the big tank to soak the wood without interupting anything.
> The one thing I would say is the number of stems you have probably isn't even enough for a 10gallon tank. Providing you have the spare parts to treat your plants like this to give yourself time you'll be fine.
> I'd be so very worried about halides in a hood but that's because I'm so used to open topped tanks.
> 
> Stems are the most hungry of plants and leaving them without co2 will leave them unhealthy and put you on a back foot instantly, it'd be like asking for algae. :/


yeah i did think about the co2 being an issue i will get it running prior to putting the tank up 

you said about the stems and the amount?

how many are we talking here to setup the first stock

i make my current count at 135 stems

are we talking 300-400 stems?

also what should i be doing ferts wise, as its gonna need some severe supplementation for such a hungry forest of stems


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

the plan with the hood is to have the front and ssides in wood and the back in meshed mdf with large holed grid type effect (radiator cover from B&Q) and a 2" gap in the top of the hood and the whole width of the tank i think this should be adequate but i will wire a bathroom extractor just to make doubly sure


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I would recommend you read and get your head fully around these two articles.
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13
And
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=467&start=0
and also useful but covering the same ground (I find this article easier to digest than the first, others find the first easier).
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1211&start=0

I don't and have never really worked on the stem principle, I've always gone by the pot, for example last time I rescaped my 60cm I used 36 pots of plants and could have found room for another 10 without effort. It really is very important to cover 80% of the substrate from the off so that the biomass can cope with any spikes. 

You may also find this article very useful as it's very much a dummys guide style article. 
http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1275


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf said:


> I would recommend you read and get your head fully around these two articles.
> http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=13
> And
> http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=467&start=0
> ...


just read the first and the last "dummys" guide really excellent guides and certainly the second one was perfect for my level in planted aquascapes
i will definately be getting more into the chemistry side of the hobby over the next few months and this is a great start point thanks garuf


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Any time mate, Big tanks are very rare on this side of the pond because they cost double what something identical would "over there" and I'd very much like to see someone do it right. I've been there and I know how disheartening it can all be when you get it all messed up by rushing my first nano not once didn't have algae because I rushed and didn't read into anything I just took spurious advice and didn't invest in proper equipment from the start, it took a good 3 attempts before I cracked it and really enjoyed it all, how that could be a very very expensive learning experience in such a big tank.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf said:


> Any time mate, Big tanks are very rare on this side of the pond because they cost double what something identical would "over there" and I'd very much like to see someone do it right. I've been there and I know how disheartening it can all be when you get it all messed up by rushing my first nano not once didn't have algae because I rushed and didn't read into anything I just took spurious advice and didn't invest in proper equipment from the start, it took a good 3 attempts before I cracked it and really enjoyed it all, how that could be a very very expensive learning experience in such a big tank.


yeah defo and its been something that ive wanted to build to the highest standard with regards to tech and the actual plant quality and obviously to still be able to look at it and just enjoy the scape itself.

im not in any hurry to blow all the hard work to have it running 2 weeks early roud:

one thing i wanted to ask 

i got the plumbing bits for the Y section split for the inline heater conversion onto the fx5 and the actual Y connector is very slightly smaller than the pvc hose i have (only by 1-2 millimeters) but it is a little loose,
i always intended to put jubilee clips around all of the connections but will the clips actually create a tight fit with there being that bit of loose?

im not sure what i could do with it and whether ptfe or similar might help to fininsh the connection off snug


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Not sure, you'd have to suck it and see so to speak. Not really sure as I've never needed to use jubilee clips with my pipe work.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf i think i may have found a much cheaper alternative to the proflora at £250 its on ebay and is £130 from germany

heres the spec

*CO2-Complete System incl. magnetic valve, 
CO2-Pressure Reactor and 500g bottle
*​ The CO2 system for your aquarium up to 500 litres volume​ *Factory-new merchandise in original packaging*​ CO2 is the structural substance of your aquatic plants. Almost half of the dry matter of plants is carbon which aquatic plants draw from dissolved CO2 in the water. In aquariums there is hardly a natural replenishment of this important structural substance therefore you should fertilise with CO2 to ensure opulent plant growth.​ *This CO2 system is the ideal solution for aquariums up to 500 l volume.*​ *The CO2 pressure reduce*r serves the purpose of reducing the CO2 bottle pressure of your CO2 system from approx. 53-60 bar (at room temperature) to a value of 1-1,5 bar. The high pressure manometer (0 - 250 bar) enables the metering of the existing bottle pressure.
The working pressure manometer (0 - 4 Bar) enables metering of the adjusted working pressure. The working pressure is adjusted directly on the pressure reducer by means of the knob.The exact amount of bubbles required can be adjusted by means of the built-in needle valve. Due to the ideal composition of the components we conducted for this pressure reducer device an ideal functioning is guaranteed especially in the area of demanding aquaristics. ​ *Our CO2-Active-Pressure Reactor* is the uncompromising solution in regard to effectiveness and guarantees a consistent maximum enrichment of the aquarium's water with CO2 for basins with a volume up to 500 l with only marginal required space.
The pressure reactor is operated with the filter outlet or an additional pump. A part of the effluent water is transmitted to the reactor via an adjustable branch where it washes round the upwards striving CO2 gas in the constant current and therefore enables the highest CO2 enrichtment of the aquarium's water.​  *The bubble counter* is inserted between the pressure reducer and the reactor in the CO2 tube and allows an exact count of the CO2 bubbles and therefore enables an ideally regulated CO2 supply in the aquarium.​  Our *check valve* is qualitatively high-grade and especially designed for long-term use in aquaristics. The plastic housing is non-ageing and the built-in lip diaphragm is extemely resistant and even satisfies medical technical requirements.​  The quality of the *CO2 tube* is significantly jointly responsible for the economic operation of your CO2 system. Silicone tubes which are often used have the disadvantage that up to 30% of the CO2 gas does not reach the reactor because it already diffuses through the tube beforehand. Many other materials have the same weaknesses and furthermore also tend to embrittle. The tube we use on the other hand is highly CO2 impermeable and very non-ageing.​  *The CO2 bottle:*
The CO2 supply bottel in this set is a steel-plate gas bottle. Our bottles have a 10-year Technical Inspection Agency approval.​ Contents: 500 g CO2
Filling pressure: 54 bar
Colour: grey
Valve: W 21.8x1/14"
Carrying handle: welded metal handle
Height with handle: max. 44 cm
Diameter: 6 cm
Gross weight: approx. 2.000g
Technical Inspection Agency: 10 years​ *CO2 magnetic valve* (solenoid valve)
Due to the fact that plants do not require CO2 when it is dark it makes sense to equip the CO2 fertilising system with a night time cut off. The night time cut off should at the same time be connected to the lighting. If the power is turned off then the valve closes and no CO2 gas flows into the aquarium. The night time cut off therefore contributes to the economical handling of the plant nutrient CO2. ​  *ATTENTION!*
Magnetic valves are supplied by many manufacturers. However in most cases the valves offered are ones which do their work in industrial machines such as dosing systmes, bottling plants or simply only in pneumatic (air clutching) controls for example. They are fully developed precision parts which are however, due to the construction, afflicted with deficits which we as aquarium lovers cannot accept. A slight hum accompanies their work. In industrial surroundings this is not disturbing. In a living room however we can do without it. ​ The valve we offer here was therefore further enhanced. Due to a special loop connection on the magnet a humming is effectively avoided.
The exceptionally low power consumption (2 watts) guarantees that the valve only gets lukewarm.
All tube connections are made of nickel-plated brass; the valve seal is made of high performance FPM (Viton).​ *Included in delivery of the CO2 night time cut off:*​ 

 a further enhanced magnetic valve for aquaristics with cable and schuko plug
 adapter for direct assembly onto the pressure reducer
 detailed assembly and instruction manual
pre-assembled ready for connection
 *Included in delivery of the complete CO2 system:*​ 

 complete CO2 system for aquariums up to 500 l volume as described above ready for connection
 detailed assembly and instruction manuals here: Download
 24-month guarantee and invoice with VAT indicated
complete scope of delivery of the night time cut off (see above)
let me know if this seems like a good alternative and i might end up getting this one instead
the reactor looks almost identicle to the proflora one and all the kit looks just the same and theres a 2 year guarantee so seems a steal​


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Pm me the link. It sounds like the one I use.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

That's the one, it's an inferior style diffuser though. I'll pm you back with a superior one.

I can assure you that my 2 year old system is still amazingly reliable and I personally think it's superior to JBLs, which I also own.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

just sent it now 

got all my plants rooting up in my 4ft ready to go in the beast
i cant believe how many plants are in there theres literally no substrate at all and ive still got 60 java fern coming!

i will have to set up my 3ft again just to house the fern

will get some pics up this weekend of the story so far!


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

from garuf:

For a tank as large as yours you really need one of the external diffusers, the one listed in your auction is actually crap. Ugly, and crap. 

Also, email the seller and request the kit without the co2 bottle, my post man went mental when it arrived labeled as compressed gas. Also, it's only 500g and it's money you don't need to spend, buy a fire extinguisher instead. 

This is the one with the better diffuser/reactor, extra cost but must better suited to your tank size, you'd have only ended up having to buy a new diffuser with the other one.


you didnt send me the link :icon_roll

will a valve set fit straight onto an extinguisher?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

All co2 systems are universally fitted as it's dangerous otherwise. 
Sorry about that, I copied it out but didn't paste.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CO2-Anlage-Ma...arf_fische?hash=item20acf55e8d#ht_3810wt_1167


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

looks real nice! 

have just sent a question for that kit - the bottle

be interesting to see how much as the postage shouldnt be bad without the 2kg bottle


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I'm pretty sure it comes as a standard DHL package which is like £7, though it was a long time ago when I bought mine. If you have space, 5kg bottles are available which would be even cheaper still in the long run.


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## blackandyellow (Jul 1, 2009)

Have you tested the two Fx-5s working together, I don´t have the exact data but I remember that my Fx-5 was rated for tanks of up to 800 liters. I have a 100 gal (400 liter) tank and the Fx-5 has plenty strength for the tank, I don´t need anything else for this tank (no powerheads or suplementary filters). The basket is huuuge. It should have come with sponges surrounding each of the three internal baskets. Besides the sponges I have two baskets full of ceramic rings and the top basket has zeolite, a bit of carbon and a water softener.

Let me check on the Fx-5 box the capacity, but for a 500 liter tank 2 Fx-5s could be too much


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## blackandyellow (Jul 1, 2009)

Here´s a link with the FX-5 description

http://www.hagen.com/pdf/aquatic/FX5_catalogue.pdf

It is rated for tanks up to 1500 liters and flow is up to 3500 liters / hours which is a ton for a 500 liter tank. As I said I have one in my 400 liter and it has plenty capacity to work on its own. The flow of two would probably be too much


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

There's no such thing as too much. 10x time turn over as a minimum, the more the better. Huge turnovers help avoid algae by avoiding dead spots and good flow helps to increase the uptake of co2 by overcoming the barrier effect which forms on leaves. I've stopped aiming for 10 in favor of 20, it really helps. Low flow rates are a hangover of uninformed fish keeping and will hinder not help.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I look at it this way, poor flow= poor plant health and algae. Good flow = good co2 distribution, minimal algae healthy plants. I can't stress it enough, low flow will only hinder you high low pressure, high rate flow just like a river is the goal and high turn overs go some way to achieving it.


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Oh yeah, I meant to ask, are you still planning on adding the halides inside the hood? I've been talking with some hobbyists and we came to the conclusion that the only way halide can be used successfuly without light pooling and getting useable levels of light is if they can be suspended and raised a foot or so above the tanks rim. Higher if you find it's too much. I was planning on moving to halide and instead have settle for LED as it's cheaper but has the same benefits of can be dimmed by turning strings of without having to raise them.


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## blackandyellow (Jul 1, 2009)

garuf said:


> There's no such thing as too much. 10x time turn over as a minimum, the more the better. Huge turnovers help avoid algae by avoiding dead spots and good flow helps to increase the uptake of co2 by overcoming the barrier effect which forms on leaves. I've stopped aiming for 10 in favor of 20, it really helps. Low flow rates are a hangover of uninformed fish keeping and will hinder not help.


Couldn´t the fish be affected (as well as the plants) with such a strong current, or plants moving all around? just curious because on my other tank (60 gal) I added a large powerhead and ended up getting rid of it because the fish were altered with the strong current, and I have Silver Dollars there who are not wimpy at all about strong currents


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

The plants benefit because they're getting more nutrients. The fish benefit because they're living in a more natural environ, better apitiets, better activity, stronger fish. I'll consceed some fish, angels for example struggle when the flow rate is higher pressure but most rivine fish don't mind at all, most love it.
The key thing is that it's low pressure flow and not high pressure.


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## blackandyellow (Jul 1, 2009)

Thanks a lot. Is there a recommended setup for the outflows (i.e. one on each extreme of the tank vs the two flowing on the same direction?)


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Every tank is different, use a drop checker to find any possible dead spots by moving it around your tank and ensuring it stays a uniform lime green throughout the tank and alter your flow to suit. Massive turn overs go someway to helping avoid having to do this extra work but in any system there is room for tweeking with outlet positions or angling. 
Depending on you tank spray bars work the best, I personally don't like them from an aesthic stand point because I feel they detract, I will use them if plant heath suffers because of my lily pipes though. Tom bar recently pointed me to lock line which is a product unavailable in the uk but is brilliant for custom flows where here we'd be forced to use what ever fluval, hagen, et al produce to alter flows. Tanks are small here though, they cost on average twice what a tank of the same size would in the US so most people use over powered filters and rely on lily pipes and experimentation.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf said:


> Oh yeah, I meant to ask, are you still planning on adding the halides inside the hood? I've been talking with some hobbyists and we came to the conclusion that the only way halide can be used successfuly without light pooling and getting useable levels of light is if they can be suspended and raised a foot or so above the tanks rim. Higher if you find it's too much. I was planning on moving to halide and instead have settle for LED as it's cheaper but has the same benefits of can be dimmed by turning strings of without having to raise them.



yep still going with the halides they will be 9-10" above the surface and im installing 2 sets of aquarium fans which are banks of 6 propellers so there will be no heat issue

i am still a little concerned about the aggressive lighting but im willing to have a go with it and see what arises

theres a thread in the general section called an experiment with light and he is pulling off an absolute flooding of wattage into the tank and has fantastic growth and form:icon_smil

as you said when i first posted it may be a good idea to drop one halide and i definately will if needs be
i have dropped the 54w tubes so there will be less intensity but i will be closely monitoring the levels of light and algae


also meant to tell you that ebay setup £139 delivered without the bottle:smile:

and i found another ebayer selling a full 4.8kg for £40 delivered so thats a saving of £60 on the proflora 602 



i


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I think you would be better to use the t5's rather than the halides, at least till the tank is mature. The first two months are what make or break a tank in my experience. It's a double saving really because you'll be able to get refills for a fraction of what JBL reps would charge, just take it to the industrial depot and get it filled. And infact a tripple saving as you've got an infineately superior reactor that will avoid prospective issues caused by the poor diffuser you would have otherwise used.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

ok so i now have the tank and have half bulit the finishing around the stand etc all the pipework is done bar some little tweaks

need to know garuf
i got the co2 from germany today and have set it up to how i imagen it would go but i cant work out the dodgy looking bubble counter?

it looks like a test tube with 2 outlets in the top but it comes with a suction cup?
as i understand with an external reactor wouldnt you need a bubble counter just before the reactor?

any advice on a semi good one to replace this piece of poo:icon_lol:


one other thing cleaned the tank out as it was used and there were some almighty scratches in the front and side :icon_mad:
ive had to turn the tank round the other way, the side that faces now still has some scratches so im pretty gutted really but it will have to do for now as i dont have the funds to replace it!

ive changed the 2 54w tubes that came with the unit for 2 arcadia plant pro bulbs so my plan is to settle the tank for 6-8 weeks and then start a 6 hour halide interval during the day to create a midday effect


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

It looks like you are well on your way with more advice than one can handle. My experience with my 125 was that it wasn't really that big once the plants started growing. I can't wait for the day when I can go bigger. 

I read through the thread pretty quickly, but I don't remember reading about what you are planning for ferts. Hopefully you are going to dry dose. With your lights and co2, the ferts are going to be a must. 

Those halides are going to be a handful. Personally, I would look for a way to suspend those and have an open top tank with some riparium plants. With those halides you could get the fixture up high enough for plants above the water, and still have the light to grow you plants under the water.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

yikesjason said:


> It looks like you are well on your way with more advice than one can handle. My experience with my 125 was that it wasn't really that big once the plants started growing. I can't wait for the day when I can go bigger.
> 
> I read through the thread pretty quickly, but I don't remember reading about what you are planning for ferts. Hopefully you are going to dry dose. With your lights and co2, the ferts are going to be a must.
> 
> Those halides are going to be a handful. Personally, I would look for a way to suspend those and have an open top tank with some riparium plants. With those halides you could get the fixture up high enough for plants above the water, and still have the light to grow you plants under the water.



yes im planning on EI dosing but i still need to do a little research as to where i can aquire the ferts from and a good dosing schedule

with regards to the halides im planning on heavy floater cover including duckweed and additional cover from a large group of rubra pads on the surface

plus the halides will only be on for a (midday) effect so will maybe only be on for 4-6 hours depending on how tricky the upkeep gets

not sure if just 2 54w t5s will be suitable during the rest periods for the halides?


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

I'll save you the hassle, buy from fluid sensor and ask for them to sort out the mixes. They have the best traces and cheapest rates. Tell them Garuf sent you. 
I personally find ripariums that started as a proper aquarium ugly so I wouldn't send you down that route. I would strongly suggest raising the halides as high as you can comfortably till the tank is grown in strongly. The t5's are more than enough on their own. If you're going to go down the mid day burt you co2 management has to be exceptional otherwise the instibility of having more uptake while the injection stays the same will play havok. 

The bubble counter is actually one of the better ones, half fill it with water, attach the co2 side of the tube to the long leg attach the tank side to the top. Magic. I've only ever used a bubble counter as a basic gauge mainly to see if it's consistant. Use the drop checker and watch the fish to make sure that you have enough co2. keep it as high as you can without the fish gasping, it'll encourage faster growth and give you a stronger head start. Don't forget to increase it upwards as the tank grows in and reduce it when you do a huge trim. 

Floaters are great for stability in the start up, don't use duck weed you'll never get rid. The only downside is that they are very ugly as they mature and prevent gaseous exchange so that co2 levels can rocket while o2 levels plummet. Make sure you have good surface aggitation from the start to keep o2 levels high so that the bacteria in the tank can boom till the plants are at max health so that the tank isn't becoming o2 defficient during cycling.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf said:


> I'll save you the hassle, buy from fluid sensor and ask for them to sort out the mixes. They have the best traces and cheapest rates. Tell them Garuf sent you.
> I personally find ripariums that started as a proper aquarium ugly so I wouldn't send you down that route. I would strongly suggest raising the halides as high as you can comfortably till the tank is grown in strongly. The t5's are more than enough on their own. If you're going to go down the mid day burt you co2 management has to be exceptional otherwise the instibility of having more uptake while the injection stays the same will play havok.
> 
> The bubble counter is actually one of the better ones, half fill it with water, attach the co2 side of the tube to the long leg attach the tank side to the top. Magic. I've only ever used a bubble counter as a basic gauge mainly to see if it's consistant. Use the drop checker and watch the fish to make sure that you have enough co2. keep it as high as you can without the fish gasping, it'll encourage faster growth and give you a stronger head start. Don't forget to increase it upwards as the tank grows in and reduce it when you do a huge trim.
> ...


ok so ihave set up the co2 system as follows

reg - solenoid
solenoid - non return valve
non return - bubble counter
bubble counter - 2nd non return valve
non return - reactor

i was thinking about previous posts and was wondering if i could just time the co2 with the halides and have it off during the low light period of the day?

also would i need to run the co2 from the start and if so what should i be aiming for with bubbles per second

my planting is as follows

70 java large (12" plus ) approx 4 leaves per plant
40 medium (6" plus) approx 6 leaves
30 small (3" plus) approx 6 leaves

200 polysperma stems green
50 polysprema stems red

20 wisteria stems

3 large rubra + pads on the surface
2 small rubra with pads
3 rubra bulbs

20 2" pots of dwarf hair grass


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

you want you're light to come about an hour before your lights more i'd imagine for your tank. The co2 need sto be constant and stable throughout so that when your first lights come on it's fine. Your co2 injection rate has to be set for the highest your light setting will be. Did you get your drop checker ready for it to be set up? How's the whole thing comming together?

Bubbles it a pretty bad measurment as the sizes vary loads and it's no measure of how much co2 is actually in the water. 

If there's no fish in the tank just keep adding the stuff you can run your DC so yellow it looks like a lemon and it'd be fine. Just back off so that it's green when you add the fish, then up your co2 and watch your fish, with it being such high light you might find your drop checker is super yellow without the fish even noticing the levels. I've known it on my own tank when I'd played with super high light.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

ok so i have completed all the stand and hood

the bogwood i added still hasnt sunk and its been 2 weeks
co2 is ready to fire up complete with chameleon drop checker
the hardscape is all over the place at the moment as everything floated and i wont be adding plants just yet so the plants dont get crushed 

the tanks been running for 2 weeks now and everything is fine 
as you can see from the photos the rear of the tank has a large vented area in the hood to allow warm air to escape from the lighting and i have installed to 6x banks of pc fans to push the warm air out the back

ive had trouble uploading the images so i have attached them instead


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

and some more images from the rear and side view


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Oooo...I really like the setup as a dividing wall. Will have to put the idea in my wife's head. Thanks for posting all the pics.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

2wheelsx2 said:


> Oooo...I really like the setup as a dividing wall. Will have to put the idea in my wife's head. Thanks for posting all the pics.


yeah notice how my exsisting house walls are so out of level
you cant beat a 120 year old building :icon_wink


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

aquascape ebay said:


> yeah notice how my exsisting house walls are so out of level
> you cant beat a 120 year old building :icon_wink


Well my 58 year old house isn't that much better. There are wobbles in the walls so maybe I need to get a wave front tank.


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## yikesjason (Jul 2, 2008)

That is some impressive wood. I like it.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

yikesjason said:


> That is some impressive wood. I like it.


yeah i was really pleased with it 
when i got it from the shop it was huge i had to cut it into 2 pieces which worked out perfect as the 2 span the whole width of the tank


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

the wood has finally sunk and i have planted in the tank :red_mouth
the co2 is now fully running and i will dose the first set of ferts from monday onwards

im really not convinced by the 2 tubes running on their own the plants at the sides and back of the tank arent getting much light at all so i will either need to add a little more light or i will end up starting a 1 hour period of halides daily

more pictures to follow as soon as i have planted in the remaining hair grass carpet


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

the tank has been running for 18 days now and i have done the third 50% water change tonight 

the plants are adjusting brilliantly and i just dosed my first set of micros

my dosing scedule is as follows:

micros
3 teaspoons of trace
5 teaspoons of potasium sulphate
with 500ml of water
= 1ml per 10 litres

macros
10 teaspoons potassium nitrate
2.5 teaspoons potassium phosphate
with 500ml of water
= 0.5ml per 10 litres

this is my first time with dry ferts so im really just learning as i go and trying to do as much background info as possible 

one thing im a little confused about is the potassium sulphate is in gravel type granular form and it doesnt completely disolve in the mixture?
should i be crushing it into dust or is it fine like this?

obviously i dont want to be adding white granules into my tank as they will look unsightly 

the halides are now running a 1 hour period from 7-8pm along side the normal 2 54w tubes which are on for the remaining 11 hours
i would have purely stuck to the tubes for the first few months but it really is terribly dim in the corners and back of the tank where there is a heavy planting of polysperma, so the halides spread right down to the substrate and dark areas 

during the 1 hour of halides you can literally see tiny bubble pouring in lines from the javas 

the drop checker is on a constant yellow and the fish are still uneffected so all seems well to continue on the same rate 

cheers
stewart


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

try warm water, if that doesn't dissolve it crush it. It could be that you have a nonsoluble form though, did you get it from fluidsensor?

The other thing, is reduce your lighting asap. most tanks need no more than about 8 hours. Start with 6 and slowly, say over two months up the light period. 
I've known polysperma to close it's leaves and say enoughs enough at about 7hours of light, this is a sign that nothing is being taken in by the plant and inviting algae to the buffet. 
Did I give you the EI dosing link from Ukaps? That's the best write up I've ever seen. Good to hear your co2 is high and your fish are unaffected, I found this especially true with highlight tanks.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

garuf said:


> try warm water, if that doesn't dissolve it crush it. It could be that you have a nonsoluble form though, did you get it from fluidsensor?
> 
> The other thing, is reduce your lighting asap. most tanks need no more than about 8 hours. Start with 6 and slowly, say over two months up the light period.
> I've known polysperma to close it's leaves and say enoughs enough at about 7hours of light, this is a sign that nothing is being taken in by the plant and inviting algae to the buffet.
> Did I give you the EI dosing link from Ukaps? That's the best write up I've ever seen. Good to hear your co2 is high and your fish are unaffected, I found this especially true with highlight tanks.


hi garuf good to hear from ya :icon_smil
i used the ie dosing from the dummys guide you gave me on uk aps
seems to be fine at the moment
i will reduce the light period to 9 hours then for the next few weeks

what do you think of the hardscape?
im well pleased with how its turned out i'll post some more shots when the hairgrass carpet is in place


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Less hours the better really on a new tank. I'd be looking at 6 rather than 9, imagine it as a running in period like with a new car. Take it easy for the first 10,000 miles or 2 months. 
Scape wise I think your large wood is much too imposing/heavy for the tank size. Have you had a look at any of the Tom Barr big tanks or any of the green machines. Laying out to the "golden section" will help too, Creative aquascape union have a very good guide on that. That said, I imagine it looking breath taking covered in ferns and anubias and other such ephityles (I think that's the wrong word, it's early). I give it a massive over all very well done! Especially all the plumbing and research.


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

garuf said:


> ... ephityles (I think that's the wrong word, it's early). ...


I believe you're looking for the word epiphytes. And I agree, less light in the beginning until you have control is a good thing.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

ok hi everyone 

the tank is coming on really well 
no signs of the dreaded green stuff and everything is growing nicely
the java are just throwing out fronds everywhere and the roots are really plush with tiny hairs 

the polysperma is staying compact but are sending off many side shoots which is exactly what i'd hoped for

i just adden the hairgrass 2 days ago so have now started upping the halide midday time to 1.5 hours

the fish stock is now

30 serpae tetra
5 khuli loach
4 speckled cory
5 ottos
4 keyhole cichlid
10 ember tetra
8 harlequins

i dont think i will be adding to this list as this looks like a good amount in the tank
i may possibly add another few ottos but im in no hurry

here is some pictures of the planting
im still not 100% about the rubra lillies as there getting really tangled up with the pads im thinking of cutting all the pads off and hopefully they will send out new pads which will find there own route rather than how they had grown in the old tank

all fish are happy and i think all the stock from my 4ft cant belive there luck :icon_mrgr

ive been dosing the ei solutions for 10 days now and i cant say ive noticed a huge change but i guess the lack of algae says something for it 

ive managed to get the 50% changes down to 45 minutes now and im hoping to trim that down to 30 minutes

i will need to do the first small trim on the background polysperma on the next water change and the first substrate hoover as there is a small build up of the odd leaf etc

anyways i will post new shots every few weeks now to keep everyone up to date


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

Wow, it's really start to look good.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

thanks!
im really pleased with how things are going 
the hairgrass is exactly how i had hoped it would look


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## pmd5700 (Oct 27, 2007)

Very nice looking tank. That piece of wood is crazy!


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Was the hairgrass already in it's emerse state? If not wait to see how it goes and if it starts to melt turn off your filter cut it to <1cm tall and watch for the new smaller aquatic growth to kick in. The scape looks marvelous though. Well done. And keep up the good work!


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

thanks guys much appreciated 
yeah the hairgrass was submerged grown and it seems to be staying green at the moment but as said if it starts to yellow i will trim everything right back

theres no way im letting £120 worth of plants wilt away!!!!


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## Tamelesstgr (Jan 11, 2008)

Wow, I really love the layout and plant placement, nice job!


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

An update if you will? It looked like sucha good start, would like to see how it's going.


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

hi there garuf

yeah its been a while and things are going great with the tank :icon_smil

i made my own liquid micro and macro doses with water for the first 2 months but now im dry dosing and it seems to be a lot better.

i realised i was under dosing the tank quite a bit so got hold of tom barr who directed me to a link he made about high light tank dosing with dry ferts which has been a really big help

i lost most of the polysperma probably due to the under dosing of ferts 
so the back section has been replaced by difformis which is growing really nicely

the hairgrass is beginning to grow in now and the javas are just throwing new leaves up like crazy

the halides are on in 2 1.5 hour sections with a 3 hour break between and this has been fine
i have had very minor hair algea growing on the old dying java leaves which i have removed every now and then and trimmed off the old java leaves

and the big thing thats changed is the delightful discus :smile::smile::smile::smile::smile::smile:

im in love .... what can i say these fish are amazing.
i was against the idea of big fish in the setup but i went to a local shop and found 5 cobalt blue juveniles and fell in love with them

i have now had another 2 red melons 2 yellow chrystals 2 red turqs and the stunning large chequerboard pigeon all from chens discus
he actually drove all the way from harrow to north wales personally to deliver the 7 fish and im made up with them
unfortunately the serpae tetra decided to start a fin nipping rampage so i returned them to the local store and they happily changed them for 30 harlequins which are behaving very well and are shoaling nicely

i have also added 2 more keyholes and 5 khulis

in addition to all this im now in the process of buying my own aquatics shop along with a reptile/amphibian section and an arachnids/inverts section so its all go at the moment
if all goes well i will be getting the keys in the next 2 months:icon_smil

anyways hers some new pics 
sorry for the crappy focusing its a rubbish camera


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

can I move to the UK and help run your shop? lol


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## 2wheelsx2 (Jan 27, 2006)

jargonchipmunk said:


> can I move to the UK and help run your shop? lol


Not until you finish your dual tank setup!


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## jargonchipmunk (Dec 8, 2008)

I'll bring it with! wait... then I have to figure out how many liters 120 gallons is... BAH


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

sorry photos to follow shortly the attachment thingy is playing up


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## aquascape ebay (Jan 2, 2010)

ok so here are the new pics guys ive moved the stuff to the right hand side back a little to make some more swimming space for the discus but i dont think its impacted negatively on the scape so all good really


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Beautiful.

IDK what it is but I've always been completely captivated by yellow discus... maybe it's how well they show off in a planted tank. That PB is really nice, too.


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## h2oplant (Mar 2, 2009)

that is a huge block of wood but it is a big tank, looks good


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## garuf (May 30, 2007)

Looks fantastic mate. Keep up the good work. Remember you will need to up your co2 and maybe ferts as growth gets denser. Keep on top of water changes, cleaning the glass/plants pruning and removing dead leaves etc and you'll be onto a winner before long!

It's just a shame you didn't go for wilds.


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## MikeS (Apr 27, 2008)

Awesome!!! That tank rocks!!!


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