# How do you replace substrate that has expired in your shrimp tanks?



## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

Start a second tank and cycle it, then break down the first tank.


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## shrimpzoo (Sep 27, 2011)

oh god that sounds like so much work and such a pain lol ):


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## shrimpnmoss (Apr 8, 2011)

or put the shrimps in a big bucket with the current filter and let them live there a month while you're cycling the old tank....if you're keeping shrimps it is inevitable that you will be needing more than one tank...


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## Alpha Pro Breeders (Jan 26, 2010)

I would net the shrimp out, save as much water as possible. Replace the soil with new add your water and shrimp back in and you should be good to go. This wouldn't work very well if your using undergravel filtration, but if your using sponge filters or canisters you should be fine.


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## shrimpzoo (Sep 27, 2011)

I do have my old 10 gallon still... So I guess I'll use that as a temporary home when I do replace the old substrate in the future with the new.

I guess there is no way to do it the lazy way lol. I just hope I net 95% of the shrimp out and don't miss any. And I don't have an UGF so I guess it isn't all too bad.

Thanks for the replies


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## Overgrowth (Feb 19, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb_k2Wg9ayI

What about this instead of netting out the shrimp?


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

First, you just started your tank and don't have any shrimp yet, don't worry about going down that route till you actually have shrimp in there for a start and it will be AT LEAST a year with Netlea. My oldest Netlea is 18 months and still going strong. I moved some from one tank, so it's been rinsed and I topped it with new soil just a little while ago, added in UGF, and still going good, not breaking down or anything.

APB, Netlea leeches ammonia for a good 1-2 months, so you can't just add the shrimp back the same day. When you get to the stage, 1-2 years+ down the road, you can get some new soil, put it in panty hose (easier to move around) and just put it in the 10gal, throw a sponge filter in and let it leech till ammonia is 0 (I just cycled my last bag this way). Then you can either cap off your existing substrate (not a great idea), or net the shrimp out, remove the old soil, add the new soil, refill (can keep some of your water even since it's a 40gal, that's a lot of RO plus the shrimp will be used to it) and then put the shrimp back in as APB said, you just need to cycle and let the ammonia leech first in another tank, bucket, whatever. You can take out small amounts of your old soil (with a gravel vac cause it's going to be full of crap and add new amounts back in, bit by bit, lots of ways to do it with the shrimp in, but really, a good breakdown every year or two is good in the long run just to get some of the mulm out, rinse off driftwood and other stuff a bit, etc. It's part of the hobby. lol.

First though, get some shrimp and then worry about the soil road when you get there. In 2 years, which I think netlea should last 1.5-2yr + (ignore the site that says 1 year), you may either have 9 more shrimp tanks setup or be at the point to get out of the hobby anyways and not bother.

Not trying to sound mean about it and sorry if it came off that way, just start with your shrimp and get them happy and worry about other stuff later. lol.


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Overgrowth said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb_k2Wg9ayI
> 
> What about this instead of netting out the shrimp?


Those work best if you starve your shrimp for a while, then bait with something really tasty like bloodworm or something they go nuts for.

Also, don't try that with tiger shrimp, they're smart and don't fall for it. Confirmed by many. lol. My tigers, got together in a little huddle, picked out the smallest, strongest shrimp and sent it in to get food and bring it out. Other bottle traps had trapped most of the shrimp, but the tigers were all sitting outside the bottle eating all the food I put in. 

In reality though, it's not going to get 100%, or the babies usually, so it's still net time. No easy way to do it. Start taking out decorations, moss, etc, shaking well and putting into a container with tank water for stow-a-way babies, then sit there and watch and wait and net and watch and wait and net. I'm in the process of moving my PFR's over and I've done about 70 in the past 2 days and there is still lots to go. Tried the bottle trap, they weren't biting tonight and got about 30 snails though. lol. There is still probably another 50+ to go, and then who knows how many babies. I just have loose moss in that tank too, so the moss is probably full of them. One of the perils of the job, lol. Lots of time netting to move a population.


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## shrimpzoo (Sep 27, 2011)

Don't worry you didn't come off as mean at all lol. Your advice is always awesome for me 

and I was just thinking far down the line from now because I tried to ask the petstore from SQ1 for CRS/CBS for 2 months now but they haven't gotten them on their order sheet... so I just started planning for the future lol

I'm going to call Big Al's tomorrow and ask when they are going to restock on CRS and try ask them to reserve 10 or 13 of them for me. Because last time I checked they only had like 2 CRS in the tank without any white on them (literally clear). So that was why I aimmed towards the petstore in SQ1 for CRS.

I shall make getting CRS my main priority now then! thanks for keeping me on track lol


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

Frank at Kim's Nature has nice CRS/CBS. They cost a bit more but they quality is 10x over what you'd get from Big Al's anyways. It's in Markham.


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## shrimpzoo (Sep 27, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up.

If the CRS is horrendous at Big Als then I'll plan a trip to Markham. It'll be my birthday on Sept 27th so it won't be hard to get someone to gimme a trip to Markham as a present next week =p


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

shrimpzoo said:


> Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> If the CRS is horrendous at Big Als then I'll plan a trip to Markham. It'll be my birthday on Sept 27th so it won't be hard to get someone to gimme a trip to Markham as a present next week =p


Big Al's CRS are usually B-C, sometimes A grade at the most. Kim's and AI have way better quality stock. Wish I had some to sell but just getting my population going again.


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## shrimpzoo (Sep 27, 2011)

No worries  when you get your population going again just give me a heads up and I'll buy come CBS from you for genetic diversity and for the sake of having CBS too (in addition to CRS) =p


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Expiring substrate? Sounds like a marketing gimmick to get you to buy more, just insert osmocote tabs.

If its main purpose was to buffer pH there are additives for that too.


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## jkan0228 (Feb 6, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Expiring substrate? Sounds like a marketing gimmick to get you to buy more, just insert osmocote tabs.
> 
> If its main purpose was to buffer pH there are additives for that too.


You clearly didn't read the OP... Adding additives just creates something to remember to do. Once these things like up, it's easy to forget. 

You can restart your tank with a substrate that doesn't leach ammonia like Up Aqua Shrimp Sand or Shirakura substrate.


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

Once your substrate expires, your shrimp will start dying, starting with babies, so it will be easier to net them all out and change them into a new tank.


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## shrimpzoo (Sep 27, 2011)

mordalphus said:


> Once your substrate expires, your shrimp will start dying, starting with babies, so it will be easier to net them all out and change them into a new tank.


holy god why?


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## ravensgate (May 24, 2012)

xenxes said:


> Expiring substrate? Sounds like a marketing gimmick to get you to buy more, just insert osmocote tabs.
> 
> If its main purpose was to buffer pH there are additives for that too.


All buffering substrates have a lifespan on them AFAIK. 12-18 months seems to be the norm. The shrimpkeeping site has the lifespans listed on the substrates they have on the page (which isn't all of them by any means). Certainly I think you can get much longer out of them because yes, it is likely noted 'too soon' in order to sell more. But that doesn't mean it last forever either. Heck some of them are known to breakdown before the time frames listed on the bags. Also depends on the type of water you are using as well. Liquid rock is more likely to break down all the buffering capabilities much more rapidly from what I've read.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Well... another reason to use dirt. 

And as for additives, I don't mean water dosing, I mean something that lasts many months, like running spaghnum moss in your filter box, effectively gets it down to the 6 range.

Or for buffering up, use calcium sand or crushed corals.

I think Liam means gradual pH range outside of the shrimps' tolerance, eventually leads to shrimp deaths.


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## shrimpzoo (Sep 27, 2011)

YES! I found someone to sell me CRS in my area (15 minute drive). 10 for $42.00 (A-S Grade) so I'm pretty happy now


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## mordalphus (Jun 23, 2010)

xenxes said:


> Well... another reason to use dirt.
> 
> And as for additives, I don't mean water dosing, I mean something that lasts many months, like running spaghnum moss in your filter box, effectively gets it down to the 6 range.
> 
> ...


Using peat or coral is way more work keeping pH at 6.5 using an aquasoil. Coral disintigrates after a while making it very difficult to rely on the amoubt you have to adjust, then what? Do you add some peat AND coral? It's a huge hassle. Also, coral adds hardness to the water as well, raising gh and kh. Peat floods the tank with tannic acid, and when the tannins are removed, some of the pH buffering is also removed. 

It's way more work than its worth to try to use these things over just replacing your substrate every year or two.

And when I mentioned your shrimp start dying, its from a change in pH, hardness and a release of stored toxins and nutrients that the high CEC substrates release when spent.


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## jczernia (Apr 16, 2010)

How long can we expect Double Red Line Akadama to last and lower pH??


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## GeToChKn (Apr 15, 2011)

xenxes said:


> Well... another reason to use dirt.
> 
> And as for additives, I don't mean water dosing, I mean something that lasts many months, like running spaghnum moss in your filter box, effectively gets it down to the 6 range.
> 
> ...


peat moss can be dangerous as it can lower ph down to 3-4 range, buffering substrates lower to a certain level and stay there. Also, peat wears out and unless you check your ph daily, you don't know when it wheres out and then ph rises, then you add more, then it drops and you play games.

Part of keeping high end shrimp is the right water and the right substrate. If you have a tank with a $1000 worth of TB/CRS, PRL's in it, $50 in substrate every 1-2 years is part of the job.


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## xenxes (Dec 22, 2011)

Really? I got these long fiber spaghnum mosses and they buffer down to 6.4 (tap at 7). Been running some in a quarantine tank for a couple weeks, but just like the substrate they have an expiration. I just can't imagine breaking down a tank every year and redo the substrate, guess I can't stray too far from pH 7 shrimp.


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