# Tips to make my aquarium plants "greener"



## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

Are you able to test for nitrate and phosphate?

The tank also looks cloudy? Is it usually this cloudy?

The algae I see on the wood is definitely blue-green algae. This is actually a type of photosynthetic bacteria and is brought on amongst other things: bad flow, and low nitrates.


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## fishyfishy101 (Nov 12, 2014)

Leave your lights on for a shorter period of time and add LOTS more plants. That should take care of algae/cloudy water


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## houbanna (Nov 29, 2013)

Blue green algea! Get rid of it. A lot of videos on how. Could be caused by lack of circulation and or nutrients or something else.


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## Ceveji (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks all!

Positron, I will test nitrate and tell you asap. Also, the cloudy water has been going for about a week now. It was not like that before a week ago. I also just did a water change, so that might be partly responsible... What creates that cloudy look, I wonder?

Fishyfishy101: how long should the bright lights be on? You think more plants would help? Okay! Great idea.

Houbanna: Whew, ok. I will get rid of it. It was definitely a circulation issue. In fact, it just so happens I bought a powerhead today! Do you think that will help with algae?


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

Creating a planted show tank is going to be difficult with discus. These fish usually do best at temperatures that kill many aquatic plant species, are fed very rich organic diets (blood worms, beef heart etc) which promote algae growth and can harm plants. This is why there are very few planted discus tanks.

What temperature is your tank now?


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## fishyfishy101 (Nov 12, 2014)

Ceveji said:


> Fishyfishy101: how long should the bright lights be on? You think more plants would help? Okay! Great idea.



I would cut it back by a hour or so to make it harder on the algae. Adding more plants will help cuz they will outcompete the algae for light and nutrients.
Ps the cloudy water is probably floating algae


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## houbanna (Nov 29, 2013)

Ceveji said:


> Thanks all!
> 
> Positron, I will test nitrate and tell you asap. Also, the cloudy water has been going for about a week now. It was not like that before a week ago. I also just did a water change, so that might be partly responsible... What creates that cloudy look, I wonder?
> 
> ...


Betters circulation has made a world of difference for me and helps with the overall health of your tank.


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## kwheeler91 (May 26, 2009)

Maybe look into Estimative Index dosing. Circulation is important as suggested. Adequate co2, and consistency of nutrient levels including co2, all balanced with the proper amount of light. Growing plants is all about balance. Particular the case with aquatic plants where algae is lurking around every corner. By maintaining adequate nutrient levels and being consistent you allow the plants to grow in an optimal state. Think about it this way: plants can grow a little differently depending on the conditions that they are in at any given time, allowing them to survive through changing conditions such as a wet/dry season, relocation etc... while the conditions are the same and it has everything it needs each leaf it sends out can grow algae free, like its immune system is intact if you will. If conditions change or the leaf gets damaged or maybe the leaf has reached its predetermined useful life for the plant, its "immune system" becomes compromised whether it be because the plants cuts off support to the leaf or the conditions for which that part of the plant was tailored to function in have changed, thus it is more susceptible to attacks from pathogens and algae. In a nutshell, that's my two cents


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Ceveji said:


> Dear Planted Tank colleagues,
> 
> I have been contemplating asking some of my nagging questions for some time but wasn't sure how long my planted tank had to be up & running before my questions were justified. It's been about 7 months of planted tank & 1 year of the tank in general, so here goes!
> 
> ...


Follow this link http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/PAM_Discus.htm
What do you observe in all of the photos compared to your tank? When you discover what that difference is, that discovery should be applied to any future tanks you set up. I know what I've written is cryptic that's on purpose. Once you learn it you'll never forget it. It's so simple you'll ask yourself why you didn't see it before.


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## Ceveji (Apr 7, 2014)

Hello again,

Okay, some answers!

Positron: My tank is still a wee-bit cloudy. What does this mean? It has been clear for months. I just switched to a new discus food --- perhaps the culprit? Also, I checked my nitrates and got 0 ppm (bright yellow). I have a feeling there's supposed to be a low nitrate level, but not that low... Right? Why are my nitrates so low? 

Zapins: That makes sense. Yeah, the stuff I feed both the discus & the elephant nose is very rich indeed. I only feed them once a day to minimize the impact on the tank though... As for temp, I keep it around 82.5. I've also tried to buy plants that like warmer temperatures. 

KWheeler91: Will look into it! Thanks!

Houbanna: How many powerheads would you put in a 90 gal tank? I have only one at the moment. 

Thanks everyone!


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## Fishly (Jan 8, 2010)

If you're only dosing flourish, iron, and potassium, you're missing micros, nitrogen, and phosphorus. Start adding those for six weeks and see what happens. (Don't let anyone convince you that phosphorus causes algae. It's actually the second most important nutrient, after nitrogen.) How much iron and potassium are you adding? Check your levels against this calculator. Note that for a tank your size, you'll be best off investing in dry ferts. 

It's hard to determine how many powerheads you need. You want enough water movement to keep most of the plants swaying, but not so much that the fish get blown around. Generally, two weaker powerheads are better than one really strong one. You'll get better results if you use some PVC pipe or flexible tubing to point the flow in several directions.

If fixing the ferts and water flow doesn't do the trick, you probably need lower light or more CO2.

For plants, I suggest trying anything that strikes your fancy and seeing if it survives. High temps may not be as big of a deal as you think. If you're worried, search "[plant's name] discus tank" to see if someone else has tried it before. Steve001's link says not to use fast growing plants, but in a tank your size, I think you could get away with a few. Just do your trimming at the same time as your water changes and you'll be fine.

Remember that most of the pictures you see online have been doctored a bit. My camera doesn't take good photos in low light, so I usually increase the contrast and lightness by 20-50% to make the picture less dark. As a side effect, it makes the plants look like they're glowing. Keep that in mind when you compare your tank to pics you see online.


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## rrattani (Sep 3, 2014)

Ceveji said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Okay, some answers!
> 
> ...


ZERO nitrates...if you are using API freshwater kit, their NITRATE bottle#2 solution tend to separate out and some of the constituents solidifies against the bottom of the bottle. HIT the bottle against a hard surface a couple of times to loosen the hardened stuff and shake the bottle for about 2 MINUTES to mix it, before testing.


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

Ceveji said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Okay, some answers!
> 
> ...


 Hey Ceveji, thanks for doing the nitrate test. 

Your plants don't look good because they are starved for food. Like your discus eat fish food and breathe oxygen, plants eat nitrate and breathe carbon dioxide. 

Why is the nitrate so low? It's because your plants are using it all or you have some kind of funky anaerobic situation going on that is consuming it.

At the very least try to get a form of plant fertilizer like KNO3 and KH2PO4. Atleast get seachem nitrogen and try that. It's much more expensive in the long haul, though. Once you start using those though you might need trace elements. 

Why is your water murky? Most likely a bacterial bloom of some sort, or fine particles of dust from sand. Usually the dust will get trapped by a filter filled with floss over time, and the bacterial bloom is normal after setting up a tank or a large change. I would also use a good amount of carbon for a week and then take it out. It should help trap stuff in the water and clear it up a bit.

Also the blue-green algae you have there. That is most definitely being caused by the lack of nitrate. You need to get it to 5ppm atleast a bit of orange on the test kit. I know discus are a bit more sensitive to nitrate, but I hear they are fine up to 10 ppm. If the BGA doesn't go away after the addition of nitrate and manual removal, you can dose Maracyn (euthromycin) at half dose for 5 days. That has killed it for me the two times I got it. 

How much are you feeding? Does a lot of unused food fall to the bottom of the tank? Do you have any catfish to clean things up?

EDIT: Also as another member suggested if you are keeping your tank warm for the discus (above 82 degrees) it may have a bad effect on the plants.


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## Ceveji (Apr 7, 2014)

Wow, such great advice. To work! (also, some brief follow-up questions)

Fishly: I did not know about those other things (micros, nitrogen, phosphorus, and dry ferts) I should be dosing. Can you tell me where (and in what form) I could find these things? I doubt my local fish store sells 'em... Also, I will look into a second powerhead.

Rratani: I will shake. Thank you!

Positron: Yes, I figured there was something wrong with my "balance." So, is seachem nitrogen something I should dose 1x weekly, keeping NO3s around 5ppm? That's the brand, I surmise... Also, on food, I am going to decrease feeding a bit. I just added some clean-up crew members to my tank in hopes of tidying things up a bit too.

Thanks all. Ceveji


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

Yes it's called flourish nitrogen. It's made by seachem. You can follow the directions on the bottle, or if you are concerned about how much you put in use this site and shoot for 10ppm weekly at first with a 50% water change each week.

http://calc.petalphile.com/

The flourish nitrogen is under pre-mixed ferts. So yes I'd add 5 ppm when you get it, and then a few ppm every other day.


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## Ceveji (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks Positron. I think I have a better handle on what I'm missing now: trace elements (micros), phosphorus (just bought seachem's phosphorus), and the seachem nitrogen that you told me about. Anything else, aside from my usual regimen?


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## Zapins (Jan 7, 2006)

I find it a bit strange that the nitrates are 0 in a discus tank. Do you do a lot of water changes? Can you double check that with another test kit? Local pet stores usually do it for free.


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## fish jihad (Mar 1, 2014)

I re-read the OPs first post to make sure... he said he changes almost ALL the water twice a week. I will assume he means 70-80%. Thats too much, especially if your not EI dosing. 50% once a week is the norm. These massive water changes could be the reason nitrates are so low. ( sorry if others pointed it out already)
Also Steve posted a link and asked whats different about those other discus tanks. Im going to guess they are HEAVILY planted. If a tank is heavily planted from the start then the plants outcompete the algae. So my humble advice is get more plants and start EI dosing and slow down those water changes.


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## secuono (Nov 19, 2009)

I keep most of the same plants from my tropical tank as I do in the Discus tank. Temp in tropical tank is 74-76F. Temp in Discus tank is 83-85F. No issues with plants melting, all are growing well. Though, they did need the temp to go up slowly and some did melt a bit at first, but bounced back and growing great now. 
Point would be, not too hard to keep Discus and plants.


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

Hes doing those massive changes because of the discus. It's a pretty normal thing for discus people to do. The reason why is to lower the nitrates and other "bad" things to sensitive fish like discus. 

But plants need nitrates so you might not be able to do discus + plants. I don't know. Haha. I have heard low levels of nitrates are fine with discus, but others will argue that even a little bit (5ppm) will stunt growth.


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## Ceveji (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for reading. Yes, I've been doing about 60% twice a week. That is what the discus folk recommend. But (whew!) I sure am going through a lot of liquid additives for my water. 

I have an additional Q about Nitrogen Flourish if y'all don't mind. I just received some in the mail and want to check my math with y'all, as per the instructions on the back of the bottle. It seems like a lot of milliliters to me and I don't want to hurt any fishies! 

So, 90 g x .05 (factor for nitrate) x 5 (ppm) = 22.5 ml (which equals more than 4 capfuls). This sounds like A LOT! What to do please?

I also got the phosphate. What are ideal phosphate levels, in mg/L?

Thanks! 
Ceveji (I'm a woman ;-)


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## Positron (Jul 22, 2013)

Here are the exact amounts for 5 ppm of NO2. 

To reach your target of 5.0 ppm NO3 you will need to add 25 mL Flourish Nitrogen to your 90.0 US gal aquarium to yield 

Element

ppm/degree

K 1.26 
K2O 1.52 
N 1.14 
NO3 5.00 


This product has some unknown percentage of N as Urea and as NO3. The calculation and chart below works with NO3 equivalents.

If you are doing 2x 60% water changes a week I would just dose 5 ppm after each water change. Inputting that data onto the pedalphile site you should have no more than 8.3ppm of nitrogen in your tank, and that's with NO plant uptake.

You will find that you will be going through that flourish nitrogen like crazy. It's far cheaper to get some KNO3 and KH2PO4 from a good dealer like GLA. They will send you the fertilizers and then I would strongly suggest going onto amazon and getting a 10 dollar gram scale so you can measure 5 ppm of NO2 from the KNO3 using the calculator I mentioned in my last post.


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Ceveji said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thanks again for reading. Yes, I've been doing about 60% twice a week. That is what the discus folk recommend. But (whew!) I sure am going through a lot of liquid additives for my water.
> 
> ...


You didn't do what I asked. Remember this


> What do you observe in all of the photos compared to your tank? This goes for any heavily planted tank photo.
> http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/PAM_Discus.htm


I'll help a little bit more by saying it isn't the lack of nutrients. Even when you have all the nutrients you'd still have the same problem


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## Ceveji (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi all,

Positron: Thanks, very helpful. 

Steve001: I read through the link you sent but could not figure out what looked so different between my pics and those pics (aside, of course, from the gorgeous greenery in the online pics versus my pathetic plants...). Could you be more precise, please?


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## Steve001 (Feb 26, 2011)

Ceveji said:


> Dear Planted Tank colleagues,
> 
> I have been contemplating asking some of my nagging questions for some time but wasn't sure how long my planted tank had to be up & running before my questions were justified. It's been about 7 months of planted tank & 1 year of the tank in general, so here goes!
> 
> ...





Ceveji said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Positron: Thanks, very helpful.
> 
> Steve001: I read through the link you sent but could not figure out what looked so different between my pics and those pics (aside, of course, from the gorgeous greenery in the online pics versus my pathetic plants...). Could you be more precise, please?


You are growing plants (algae), but it's not the kind of plants you want. Forget about how lush (forested) those tanks you desire look. In other words don't look at the forest, instead count the number of trees in the forest. In your tank according to those photos you planted a small wooded patch so to speak. You want to plant a lot of trees from the start too end up with a forest in the end. In practical terms plant a least 80% of the substrate. Attach plants to the hardscape where practical. This video illustrates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDh-LzpCB24 Add floating plants ( optional)
If you are new to this hobby this mistake it appears is one I see often. 

Something I'd like to add. Heavily planted tanks only need external filtration if the fauna population is high. You see plants excel at keeping the water clean. No filter is one less thing to worry about. If you can place this tank near a east-southeast facing window you don't have to worry as much about lighting too.


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## Ceveji (Apr 7, 2014)

*Picture update*

Hi all,

Since "we last spoke," I have been dosing 2x a week with the following liquids: Flourish comprehensive, Flourish trace elements, phosphorus, iron, & nitrogen. Dosing as per the instructions on the back of the bottles and still doing 2 water changes a week, I have very sadly had two fish deaths :-(... I am quite sure nothing else had changed in my water parameters, so I can only imagine the two discus died from some sort of fertilizer poisoning. Has anyone experienced this same issue? Should I dose less, or less often? Or might there be certain combinations of the liquids mentioned above that would be toxic to fish or lead to some kind of metal poisoning? When they died, beforehand they clearly looked "tortured" :-(. I DEFINITELY prioritize my fish over my plants but, when I realized what was about to happen, it seems it was already too late. 

So, advice on those fronts is welcome. Secondly, can anyone tell me what the brown algae collecting on the bottom of my tank is? It accumulates so rapidly, even with this new ferts regimen. Check it out in the pics. 

The only good news is I've had some new plant growth, and it looks greener for sure. Steve001, as per your advice, I bought some new plants and tried to cover more surface. I think though that many of the carpeting plants can't handle the regular temp in my tank (82). I spent HOURS placing baby dwarf tears into the substrate one-by-one, only to watch them ALL melt away... Any recs on high-temp plants that look nice?

Thanks all!!!


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## leemacnyc (Dec 28, 2005)

Hey Cev, You may want to look into these ferts, the liquid regime will get expensive quick 
http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizers-supplements/micro-macro-fertilizers.html


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

^^ This. Get on the EI Fert bandwagon, and stop wasting tons of money on SeaChem liquid ferts (which are basically watered down powder ferts sold at a tremendous markup). Especially with such a large tank, you're going to be tearing through liquid (at $10/jar) like crazy. Buy comparison, that $15 set linked above will last a YEAR or more.

Second, still more plants. The temps aren't THAT high.

Third, how much light, do you have, and how long are they on?

Light, ferts, and co2 are the trio that balance a tank. One or more is out of whack.

(circulation is related to both ferts and co2, because dead spots don't get enough of either)


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## Ceveji (Apr 7, 2014)

Hey all,

Leemacnyc: Awesome! Will buy some of those asap (I was wondering how y'all affording this :icon_surp). They are little fert nuggets or...? Do I just stick 'em in the substrate?

Kman: Your post is super helpful. So, more plants. Okay! That's fun! And about the CO2/lights/ferts trio, how can I know which part is out of whack? 

I have a feeling it might be the lights... I got one of those Marineland 36" single-strip LED lights (marketed as for planted tanks) but, for starters, my tank is 48". I've had it for exactly 1 year. Do the lights run out, so to speak? A DIY-light guy told me that was the advantage of DIY lights, is that they last for a long time whereas the store-bought ones don't. SHOULD I INVEST IN SOME SUPER-PRICEY DIY LIGHT???

As for CO2, I have a drop checker in there and CO2 turns it an emeraldy green by mid-day or so. I've got an inline diffuser, so I figure CO2 is alright.

Then ferts, well, seems like my main issue is HOW OFTEN to dose given my water changes (2x weekly). Still no one has any idea about the recommended dosing on those seachem bottles & fish safety? Thanks!!!


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## kman (Dec 11, 2013)

The EI ferts ship as a collection of powders, either in plastic bags or in jars (if you pay for the nice jars). There is a "recipe" included with them, from GLA, as well as many calculators online.

What most people do is premix the various ferts together. It's literally a matter of following the recipe. (1/4 teaspoon of this, 1/2 teaspoon of that, and 1/2 tablespoon of this) You get 3 powders of dried chemicals for macros, and 1 for micros. You dose on alternate days, and skip one day per week for water changes. So dose Macros on Mon-Wed-Fri and Micros on Tues-Thurs-Sat. Just dose the tank when you feed the fish, so it's easy to remember.

Here's what I do: I premix ~4 months (16 weeks) of macro ferts together (so I don't have to measure out 3 things every day). Then add that to 500ml of water. At 3 doses per week, 16 weeks of doses is 48 doses. Divide 500/48 and you get just over 10ml per dose. So I just squirt in 10ml of macro juice (my tank is on the small end of the range, so the fraction of a ml is irrelevant), and alternate days with 10 ml of micro juice (mixed the same way). Assuming you feed your fish every day, it's just part of the routine. I picked up a 12ml syringe on Amazon, you can probably also get them at a pharmacy (ask for one with no needle for dosing liquid medicine, and sometimes they'll give you one for free), so it's super easy. Or, GLA sells little 500ml dosing bottles with measured pour chambers (see the website) that also make it quite easy.

Side note: I recommend adding a few drops of Excel to the premixed liquid, to help prevent mold, and store the liquids in the fridge, for the same reason.

Once you get into the routine of just adding some fert every day when you feed your fish (except on Sunday, or whatever), it becomes a no-brainer that you don't even have to think about. Of course, I took laziness to the next step and built an autodoser that automatically adds the correct amount every day (and skips Sunday), but that's a topic for another thread.


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## Kubla (Jan 5, 2014)

I was looking at your pics. Is that a 48" tank with a 36" light?


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## Ceveji (Apr 7, 2014)

Wow Kman, you're the best! I will follow your advice to a T, as they say. Thanks again...

Kubla: Yeah, silly me bought a 36" light for that length tank and then upgraded/upsized tanks a couple months later w/o buying new light. Is that why I get brown dead plant matter accumulation maybe?


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## jpfish (Feb 14, 2019)

*Update please*

I know this thread is an old thread but I was just curious if you made any progress in fixing your tank issue. Can you provide an update? Thanks.


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