# Red gills on zebra danio's



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

I have Zebra Danio in my new 30g tank. Into week 2 of cycling. Just added some Dwarf sag's & another plant last night. Just noticed 3 Zebra have the start of Red Gills it looks like. How can I treat them? I added an airstone to the tank. Maybe it will help. I read somewhere to use Melafix & or Salt? Please help. Thanks, Brian


----------



## Imaginary1226 (Jul 27, 2010)

Toxins in the water from cycling. Do a water change. Small frequent water changes will help the fish be less stressed by the whole process, although it does take longer this way. Fishless cycling probably would have been a better option.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Probably would have been better but I'm brand new to the fish scene especially planted & didn't hear about fishless cycling until I had already bought the 10 Zebra's. My water does not warrant any water changes. Everything is at good levels from what I can tell & have been told. See below.

NITRITE LEVEL	10
NITRATE LEVEL	0
HARDNESS LEVEL	75 SOFT
CHLORINE LEVEL	0
ALKALINITY LEVEL	80 MODERATE
PH LEVEL	7.2 ALKALINE


----------



## Imaginary1226 (Jul 27, 2010)

any ammonia and any nitrite will stress fish. Higher levels of either will eventually kill or damage the gills. The best thing to do when fish aren't acting or looking right is to change the water asap. So go from the behavior of your fish, let your fish guide your actions. They are telling you help me it burns, give me some fresh water. So do it. Water changes will not hurt anything and fish enjoy them very much.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

I understand what your saying but my LFS told me not to do water changes until the tank cycles. All water conditions seem normal by test. Thanks for your advice.


----------



## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

Disregard what the LFS told you. You need to lower ammonia levels to protect your fish. The tank will still cycle with water changes. Having the fish in the tank means there will be a continuous influx of amines to feed the nitrifying bacteria.

That seems like some really bad advice. I don't undanderstand what logic could be behind nixing the water changes when you are doing livestock cycling.


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Do your own research, never belive what a local fish store employee tells you right off the bat. Over time, you will build a relationship with them and will know when to and when not to listen to what they are saying. Water changes are ALWAYS a good thing, especially when you have live fish in a tank that is not fully cycled, the focus should be on keeping the fish you have alive, and not letting them have a slow painful burning death. Nitrite and ammonia burn the poor little guys. This advice you were given is why so many new people to the hobby quickly leave it. Zebra Danios are tough as nails, but they can only take soo much.
You are also missing one vital chem test as well, grab an ammonia test. 

Ask away on the forum though, there are many many knowledgeable people here that are more than willing to share their expertise and stories.


----------



## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

You didn't post your ammonia level but I would assume it's pretty high, and your nitrites are definatly high for a tank with livestock in it - your water does warrant a water change unless you want the fish to die. Please do some research on cycling as you are going to have to do numerous water changes while the tank is cycling to keep your fish alive. It sounds like you probably haven't done any and that your fish are suffering from ammonia and nitrite poisoning.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yes add salt to your water ASAP to reduce the toxicity of those nitrites. You are burning the gills of your danios, they absolutely have nitrite poisoning with 10ppm nitrites. And if you've got 10ppm nitrites, the ammonia is probably off the charts. Your tank is currently the equivalent of swimming in raw sewage for those fish.

If your LFS doesn't know that or doesn't care, then their interest is only in selling you more fish to replace the ones that are being killed.

So yes- your water may be "normal" for a cycling tank, but that does NOT mean that it is SAFE for fish!

First do a large water change, at least 75% to try and get the ammonia and nitrites down. Then dose salt, 1 tsp per gallon.

*You're going to keep needing to do frequent large water changes to bring both the ammonia and nitrite down under 0.25ppm and keep them there for the duration of the cycle for the safety of the fish.* If you do 50% water changes, the math should be easy to figure out how much salt to add back after each water change.

Yes, it will take longer to cycle the tank doing water changes. But at this point, that bridge is already crossed if you want to keep your zebra danios alive.

Or you can take back the zebra danios and do a fishless cycle on the tank. That would be the easier option, IMO. Also it wouldn't subject your plants to salt treatments, which can be rough on plants. At this point, though, I personally would prioritize the health of the fish over that of the plants. Plants can grow back, fish only die and are gone.


----------



## EntoCraig (Jun 7, 2010)

+1 on the ammonia and Nitrates. If i ever see red gills on fish, i know something has gone wrong, like a filter went out, etc. Its a sure sign of toxic water. Small water changes FTW! Good luck! Danios are pretty tough and should rebound once the water quality improves.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll do a water change today. Is there anything I should add to the water to get the levels down or any medication for the fishs?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Just salt. 

That's the best thing for nitrite poisoning.

Salt also has antifungal and antibiotic properties, so can help ward off 2ndary infections and so kills several birds with one stone.

Seachem's Prime or API's Amquel+ would be the best water conditioner product, since they also help detox ammonia and nitrites along with removing chlorine and chloramines. That detoxing effect lasts only about 24 hours, however, so just buys you a little time between water changes.

Nothing substitutes for water changes. Avoid "ammo-lock" products at all costs- at best they're worthless, and at worst they'll short-circuit your tank's cycle and turn your tank into a chemical soup.

Adding some zeolite or Purigen chemical media to your filter is another option that also can help bring down the ammonia levels in the tank. But you don't want to totally remove ALL the ammonia, since you want the tank to keep cycling.


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

do you have any plants in the tank yet? You can add some Anacharis (most big box pet stores have this in stock) It is a sponge for many of the chemicals you are trying to rid yourself of. It does not have to be planted in the substrate, you can just float it in the tank. This might also help get your cycle going a bit faster as well, the plant will use some of the ammonia, and nitrites in its growth, which will pull it out of the water.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Took a water sample to my LFS, they checked everything plus ammonia level. Everything was good, ammonia level is at .025. The fish store person said my tank is at the right level for being two weeks old. He said I can do a partial wc but it would only set the cycle back. They said to just let it do it's thing. No wc & don't add anything to tank. I'm going to add some iodized table salt, just not sure how much for 30G. Let me know if anyone knows. I'll seach around also. Thanks

P.S. Yes I have plants. 10 Dwarf Sag 1 Hornwort & 1 some type of fern. Just added them to tank last couple days.


----------



## Cuchulainn (Nov 2, 2010)

Maybe U can get some seeded media like filter floss from a friend with an established tank or from the LFS(they hopefully will just give u some)-squeeze this into the tank after U have done a partial w/c as previous posters stated.
Oh and of course add your dechlorinator everytyme.Some products like"prime" tell U how U can use up to 5 tymes the amount in an emergency


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

0.25ppm ammonia is acceptable, but you will have to do water changes to maintain it at that level.

What were your nitrate and nitrite levels, exactly? If your nitrites were still high, those are still deadly for fish.

Your LFS is giving you advice that basically considers the danios disposable. It's common, but personally, I consider that cruel. The symptoms your danios are displaying indicates they are already suffering gill damage.

1 tsp per gallon on the salt- so 30 tsp.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

AMMONIA 0.25
NITRITE LEVEL 10
NITRATE LEVEL 0
HARDNESS LEVEL 75 SOFT
CHLORINE LEVEL 0
ALKALINITY LEVEL 80 MODERATE
PH LEVEL 7.2 ALKALINE

As of 11/05/10

What about adding salt? How much to add to a 30 gallon tank?


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Yep, those nitrite levels are through the roof. They need to be down under 0.25 for the sake of the fish.

Keep in mind that even a 75% water change will only bring them down to about 2.5 ppm. A 50% change at that point will bring them down to 1.25 ppm... and so on.

So you've got quite a few big water changes in your future if you want to save the danios.

Or take them back and then you can do a fishless cycle and avoid doing water changes all together.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Here's a few articles on nitrite poisoning:

http://theaquariumwiki.com/Nitrite_Poisoning

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/nitritepoison.htm

Keep in mind that the damage done to gills by nitrite poisoning can be permanent even if it doesn't kill the fish outright. It's the equivalent of serious lung damage to a human.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

I tested my tank again. Please check my levels I've posted. Nitrate level is appx. 10 on the dip test, not Nitrite. Nitrite is at 0. I got the names confused.


Thanks for the links. I'm reading them now.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

OK, let's triple check this, because nitrAtes at 10ppm is an entirely different story from nitrItes at 10ppm.

NitrAtes at 10ppm isn't a problem. NitrAtes are much less toxic than ammonia or nitrites, and I generally advise people to not worry about nitrates till they start exceeding 40ppm or so.

If those parameters are correct, then suspect that since you're 2 weeks into cycling, the danios' red gills are still a result of damage done by ammonia and nitrite spikes- but the damage is already done since the levels have fallen back down.

You may still want to dose salt to see if it helps, however.

And I'd advise you keep checking the water parameters daily until the cycle is over to keep an eye out for any more ammonia or nitrite spikes.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

I guess I was typing this when you were typing above Laura Lee. I did another check just to be sure & the above Test Results are accuate, THe NitrItes are at 0 & the NitrAtes are are between 0 & 20 so I'm calling it 10. I added 30 tsp to my tank. Looks all white now. I hope it helps & doesn't kill fish & or plants. I'll check water each day to keep an eye on things. I have a API Master kit on it's way to me. $19.80 from Linens n Things. Thanks for the help. Brian


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Just keep an eye on things for a few days. If the fish start looking better, and the ammonia and nitrites stay in safe ranges, you might start doing water changes in 2-3 days to start pulling the salt back out.

A short-term salt treatment at this dosage should be safe for most hardy plants (which it sounds like you have?)


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Plants are Dwarf Sag, Hornwort & Some kind of Fern I think. Someone sent it to me with the Sag's I bought from him. It's really the Zebras' I'm worried about. Hopefully all will be well. I'll keep posting updates. Funny, since I put the Snow Fall of Salt in the water, the group of Zebra's are all swimming in a school, all together keeping low to the bottom. Thank you for the help Laura Lee. Brian


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Well, I'm going to have lunch & watch my fish for awhile. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Sounds good, like you're doing the best you can for them at this point.

Best of luck and keep us posted!


----------



## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

Most table salt has an anti caking agent in it that I've read is harmful to fish. I'd advise using aquarium salt instead.


----------



## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Bad advice from lfs guy. If he's giving you that kind of advice, especially knowing that your fish are visibly suffering from water conditions, then he clearly cares little for the health of fish. Or he's an idiot. Either way, keep it in mind next time he offers you advice.

P.S. Most bacteria will be on surfaces of substrate, tank walls, equipment, plants, and especially the filter media. Doing water changes will remove a minimal amount of bacteria and shouldn't significantly extend the cycling period.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Laura Lee - Thanks for your advice. I'll keep the update going. I'll see how things are tomorrow afternoon. Hope all keeps getting better as they are now.

Wendyjo - That info is a little late. I read where people have added table salt with good results. My fish are perky & seem happy. They are all back to their normal routines swimming about freely, the white tinge created by salting the tank has deminished. I fed them & they all are eating normal. We'll see what happens over the next few days. Hopefully all will continue getting better.

Kevmo911 - As for my lfs employee not having a clue, I think he does but you're correct, I don't think he has feelings for my fish condition & stress level. I mentioned a few have reddish gills & he basically said that it's normal during a cycle, that's why he sold them to me in the first place, to cycle the tank. He really should have told me I could do a fishless cycle but maybe he took advantage of me being a newbie. Whatever the case, it's kind of too late for that now. I'll go forward & hope for the best. Thanks for your advice everyone. Brian


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Prostock442 said:


> Laura Lee - Thanks for your advice. I'll keep the update going. I'll see how things are tomorrow afternoon. Hope all keeps getting better as they are now.
> 
> Wendyjo - That info is a little late. I read where people have added table salt with good results. My fish are perky & seem happy. They are all back to their normal routines swimming about freely, the white tinge created by salting the tank has deminished. I fed them & they all are eating normal. We'll see what happens over the next few days. Hopefully all will continue getting better.
> 
> Kevmo911 - As for my lfs employee not having a clue, I think he does but you're correct, I don't think he has feelings for my fish condition & stress level. I mentioned a few have reddish gills & he basically said that it's normal during a cycle, that's why he sold them to me in the first place, to cycle the tank. He really should have told me I could do a fishless cycle but maybe he took advantage of me being a newbie. Whatever the case, it's kind of too late for that now. I'll go forward & hope for the best. Thanks for your advice everyone. Brian


some LFS are still stuck in the 70-80's where fishless cycle was not as known. as I know, fishless cycle is a newer thing, and makes much more sense than doing it with fish in. The best thing you could do now going forward is to research anything you plan to do to the tank a week or two before moving forward. This way you will know which fish you can get that are compatible with each other ect. And if in doubt (sometimes websites are wrong too) ask a question in the forums. Once you get the cycle done and over with, the hobby becomes much more enjoyable and less problems seem to crop up.


----------



## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

UPDATE: Everyone is feeling fine, all red gills have cleared up. Gave them a salt bath yesterday. Water is at 0's


----------



## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

Awesome! :biggrin:

And FWIW, I love my LFS, and 9x out of 10 they give great advice, but they don't know much of anything about fishless cycling, either...


----------



## Noahma (Oct 18, 2009)

Prostock442 said:


> UPDATE: Everyone is feeling fine, all red gills have cleared up. Gave them a salt bath yesterday. Water is at 0's


I am glad to hear that, keep up on the tank duty's, and you are on your way \

There are two LFS's around me that have very knowledgeable staff too, and well.... only one of them knows of fish less cycling, and he does not buy into it lol


----------



## wendyjo (Feb 20, 2009)

What is there not to buy into?


----------

