# Help! What substrate?



## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Hey, I am going to be setting up a 75 gallon low light low tech low maintenance planted community tank soon, and I was wondering about what substrate I should use. I will have 10 panda corys, so the substrate needs to be soft and not sharp. I will have anubias, water wisteria, nana val. Maybe cryptocorene wendtii, java fern amazon swords, pygmy chain swords. What substrate would be good for this? Eco-complete? Pool filter sand? Dirt?


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Start with base layer of safeTsorb, 1-1.5" deep, dirt cheap and has high CEC value, use it if you want to build up slightly higher areas. Bevel it away from edges of tank a bit so you won't see layers after top gravel is put in, sprinkle top of that with about 1/16" of coco peat.

Then top it all with 1-1.5" of Peace River gravel, its a nice gravel, nice 1-3mm sand, not to dark, not to light. Super easy to plant and to me one of best looking. It will be a viable substrate bed for decades with just some mild water column dosing. Even if some of safeTsorb does get unearthed during re-planting you won't notice because their of similar color.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

DaveKS said:


> Start with base layer of safeTsorb, 1-1.5" deep, dirt cheap and has high CEC value, use it if you want to build up slightly higher areas. Bevel it away from edges of tank a bit so you won't see layers after top gravel is put in, sprinkle top of that with about 1/16" of coco peat.
> 
> Then top it all with 1-1.5" of Peace River gravel, its a nice gravel, nice 1-3mm sand, not to dark, not to light. Super easy to plant and to me one of best looking. It will be a viable substrate bed for decades with just some mild water column dosing. Even if some of safeTsorb does get unearthed during re-planting you won't notice because their of similar color.


 I love Caribsea substrates--
I haven't tried that one- its really attractive.


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## Ryan.Waite (Jun 20, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> Start with base layer of safeTsorb, 1-1.5" deep, dirt cheap and has high CEC value, use it if you want to build up slightly higher areas. Bevel it away from edges of tank a bit so you won't see layers after top gravel is put in, sprinkle top of that with about 1/16" of coco peat.
> 
> Then top it all with 1-1.5" of Peace River gravel, its a nice gravel, nice 1-3mm sand, not to dark, not to light. Super easy to plant and to me one of best looking. It will be a viable substrate bed for decades with just some mild water column dosing. Even if some of safeTsorb does get unearthed during re-planting you won't notice because their of similar color.


This looks super nice, I was going to do PFS but I may do this instead.


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

Ryan.Waite said:


> This looks super nice, I was going to do PFS but I may do this instead.


Only down side to peace river is cost, so doing a big tank it can be a considerable investment. Up side is they do properly size and grade it so it works well in aquarium. Pool sand can work too, but your not going to get properly graded stuff for $6 a bag. The $12 50lb bag of properly graded stuff on left vs cheap crap on right. I would never use stuff on right anymore than 1” thick in a aquarium, it’s to small and will compact to tight, it will be nothing but a problem in long run. The stuff on left it will have proper grading/pore size in between, it will breath and let oxygen/currents flow into substrate, roots have a easier time also making way through substrate.










If doing a big tank using 1/3 peace river and 2/3 good pool sand will give you a nice medium light substrate and save you a bunch of cash. Save a few handfuls of PR and get some bigger pea gravel and small stones to strew around top and scratch it in and it will look wonderful.


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

DaveKS said:


> Start with base layer of safeTsorb, 1-1.5" deep, dirt cheap and has high CEC value, use it if you want to build up slightly higher areas. Bevel it away from edges of tank a bit so you won't see layers after top gravel is put in, sprinkle top of that with about 1/16" of coco peat.
> 
> Then top it all with 1-1.5" of Peace River gravel, its a nice gravel, nice 1-3mm sand, not to dark, not to light. Super easy to plant and to me one of best looking. It will be a viable substrate bed for decades with just some mild water column dosing. Even if some of safeTsorb does get unearthed during re-planting you won't notice because their of similar color.


You cap your STS? Shoot, I've been doing it wrong for 3 years. Don't tell my plants! :wink2: It's good stuff regardless whether you like it on the top or bottom.

To the OP:
The plants you listed will do just fine with whatever substrate you choose. Honestly, an inert gravel (like what was previously mentioned) by itself that's brown will be the least maintenance over time. (diatoms, mulm, fish poop, decayed plant material, etc. are all brown) All the nutrients for the plants would come from water dosing and root tabs. Dark brown -> Black would be my next color preference, and I would personally never choose white or tan for a low-tech, low maintenance planted tank. 

I have 10 tanks, all planted with 5 different substrates and they all grow the plants you want to use. EcoComplete/FloraMax are sharper and it's a mixed bag with reviews about having cory cats with that substrate.


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## Blue Ridge Reef (Feb 10, 2008)

A lot of ways to go right here. I have tanks (all planted) with Eco Complete, Flourite, Estes gravel, and Aqua Soil. All do great. I've given up on sand and will never use it again, but people have beautiful tanks here and elsewhere using it. I could say the same for dirtied tanks.


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## minorhero (Mar 28, 2019)

DaveKS said:


> Only down side to peace river is cost, so doing a big tank it can be a considerable investment. Up side is they do properly size and grade it so it works well in aquarium. Pool sand can work too, but your not going to get properly graded stuff for $6 a bag. The $12 50lb bag of properly graded stuff on left vs cheap crap on right. I would never use stuff on right anymore than 1” thick in a aquarium, it’s to small and will compact to tight, it will be nothing but a problem in long run. The stuff on left it will have proper grading/pore size in between, it will breath and let oxygen/currents flow into substrate, roots have a easier time also making way through substrate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What do you look for to get the "properly graded" pool filter sand? Is there a specific brand you look for or a keyword?


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

grizzly_a said:


> You cap your STS? Shoot, I've been doing it wrong for 3 years. Don't tell my plants! :wink2: It's good stuff regardless whether you like it on the top or bottom.
> 
> To the OP:
> The plants you listed will do just fine with whatever substrate you choose. Honestly, an inert gravel (like what was previously mentioned) by itself that's brown will be the least maintenance over time. (diatoms, mulm, fish poop, decayed plant material, etc. are all brown) All the nutrients for the plants would come from water dosing and root tabs. Dark brown -> Black would be my next color preference, and I would personally never choose white or tan for a low-tech, low maintenance planted tank.
> ...


I have no problem with safetsorb as top or only layers, it’s actually very attractive I think, but with Cory or other bottom rooters that OP stated they want, the softer, less abrasive texture of a silica based top layer is always preferable IMHO.

Bump:


minorhero said:


> What do you look for to get the "properly graded" pool filter sand? Is there a specific brand you look for or a keyword?


HTH brand $12 left, Quickcrete brand $6 right.


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## Quesenek (Sep 26, 2008)

Blue Ridge Reef said:


> A lot of ways to go right here. I have tanks (all planted) with Eco Complete, Flourite, Estes gravel, and Aqua Soil. All do great. I've given up on sand and will never use it again, but people have beautiful tanks here and elsewhere using it. I could say the same for dirtied tanks.


I do believe I'm also going away from sand substrate. 
I've always had good luck with sand in the past, but since I've come back and really pushed "High tech" I believe it is hurting some of my plants by killing them at the base of the stems, where tests with straight gravel the plants don't exhibit any of these issues.

I'm very interested in changing out my substrate to safeTsorb.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Would the peace river be safe for panda corys?

Bump: where would I find coco peat?

Bump: I found this.
https://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Plan...t&qid=1563214391&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

How much coco peat would I need?

Bump: A added the prices up and it is WAY outside of my budget. Sorry, but I can't spend any more than about $80 on substrate. I think eco complete might work. I need CHEAP substrate ideas.


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## ursamajor (Oct 6, 2015)

For such a tight budget, maybe try dirt capped with sand. Almost all the low-tech "I just throw plants in and they grow" tanks I've seen have some sort of soil substrate. Other inert substrates can work of course, but then you have to pay more attention to fertilization and water quality.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I would use dirt but I am having a hard time finding any that doesn't have added miracle grow or whatever. I am assuming the ferts in the dirt would kill my fish?

Bump: I suppose flourite might be an option if capped with sand. Not sure though. The plants will be anubias(Many varieties), java fern, cryptocorene wendtii, java moss. Do I need a nutrient rich soil? Why not sand? Could I top eco-complete with sand?


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

get safetsorb as base and top with the HTH pool sand posted above. $12 for 50lb bag.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Would the safe T sorb end up at the top and the sand at the bottom?


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

And am using Fairmount Minerals PFS. Is this good stuff?


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

aquanerd13 said:


> And am using Fairmount Minerals PFS. Is this good stuff?


Aqua Quartz, right? It is reportedly good stuff.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Good, i read its fine for corys.


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

aquanerd13 said:


> Good, i read its fine for corys.


Yes, great for corydoras. Good, responsible choice.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I decided just sand. Thanks though!


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## varanidguy (Sep 8, 2017)

aquanerd13 said:


> Good, i read its fine for corys.




Given the plethora of people using it successfully, I’d say it’s safe to say that it’s absolutely good to use for cories. I’m probably going to use this type of sand in an upcoming 75 gallon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Discusluv (Dec 24, 2017)

Just be aware that outside this forum, there are many cases where this experience has been quite different.

Bump:


varanidguy said:


> Given the plethora of people using it successfully, I’d say it’s safe to say that it’s absolutely good to use for cories. I’m probably going to use this type of sand in an upcoming 75 gallon.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 "Plethora?" I think that's a bit too optimistic. 

But, nice word. :wink2:


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

aquanerd13 said:


> I would use dirt but I am having a hard time finding any that doesn't have added miracle grow or whatever. I am assuming the ferts in the dirt would kill my fish?


Scott's Premium Topsoil is a good choice to avoid the Miracle-Gro additives.
Still needs to be sifted for rocks and anything that can float but a good choice none the less!


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I am afraid the corys would create a mess if they rooted around in soil.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Capped with about 1-1/4 - 1-1/2" of sand should be no worries.
Pulling plants must be done delicately!


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Ok thank you!

Bump: How many bags should I get?


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## DaveKS (Apr 2, 2019)

https://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

I am now debating on doing eco complete with a substrate barrier and then sand on top, so the corys only get to the sand but the plants can get to good substrate.

Is that even neccessary? I will have brazilian pennywort, dwarf 4 leaf clover, crytpocorene wendtii, and temple plants. Do they need eco-complete?


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## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

aquanerd13 said:


> I am now debating on doing eco complete with a substrate barrier and then sand on top, so the corys only get to the sand but the plants can get to good substrate.
> 
> Is that even neccessary? I will have brazilian pennywort, dwarf 4 leaf clover, crytpocorene wendtii, and temple plants. Do they need eco-complete?


No it's not necessary, sand is fine as only substrate. EcoComplete is just crushed lava rock. Uprooting plants will bring Eco to the top, and sand will filter down to the bottom. Keep it simple, stay with one substrate and work within it.


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

sand it is then. Thanks!


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## CarissaT (Jul 1, 2019)

I just set up my 75g with fairmount PFS but decided to top it with a thin layer of natural gravel because I wasn’t really fussy with the plain sand look. There was very little cloudiness from the sand and it’s good to work with. The gravel was much dirtier and required far more rinsing than the sand. If I did it over I would have just put in the sand first, then a day or so later added the gravel, because it got somewhat mixed up with all the commotion in the tank. I just went through parts of the tank with a very coarse sieve and separated the gravel where it got mixed up to bring it back to the top. I used three bags of sand and one of gravel, but think I need another bag of gravel. I’m quite happy with it. 


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## aquanerd13 (Jun 22, 2019)

Ok. Good to know that it is quality stuff. Thank you.


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