# Cycling time for Amazonia



## Hamsta (May 28, 2009)

I don't know if this will help but I have Amazonia II in a 7g. I had a bunch of Egeria Densa floating in there with about 10hrs of light a day. It took about 3 weeks for ammonia levels to drop. I did 40% water changes every second day.

I think it's ok to just leave it and don't worry about water changes if you got plants in there (as long as there is no fish).


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## illumnae (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks for sharing your experience  was your filter cycled when you started the tank? I think the presence of beneficial bacteria in the filter could help to reduce/remove ammonia from the outset when coupled with fast growing floating plants?


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## t0p_sh0tta (Jan 24, 2008)

I ran a cycled filter on my 10g and the ammonia spike was gone by the middle of week 2.


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## rbarn (Mar 21, 2009)

Cycled filter will help a lot.

But figure 2-3 weeks. Was getting discouraged on mine ever clearing
and then with-in 2 days in about middle of 3rd week it went from cloudy
to crystal clear.


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## dthb4438 (Nov 12, 2007)

Having tons of plants in there helps alot too. They seem to absorb the ammonia well.


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## Hamsta (May 28, 2009)

My filter was cycled. The water was very cloudy for about 2 to 3 days but then cleared up pretty well. I have about 5L of Amazonia II in a 7g tank.

I guess you could test the water for ammonia to be sure that it has completely cycled before adding any fish.


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## illumnae (Dec 27, 2007)

I don't really trust ammonia test kits as noone knows how long they've been sitting on the store shelf, plus they're expensive 

Thanks everyone for sharing their experiences. My water was clear (no cloudiness at all) from Day 1, and I've been adding daily doses of ammonia remover (it's a commercial product produced/supplied by my tank maker that claims to contain beneficial bacteria, but I know at the very least it removes ammonia). back 1/2 of the tank is chock full of stems, and the foreground has HC planted (3 pots worth) that will hopefully spread. I've got floating plants there too, which are a huge ammonia sponge. And of course, the filter was cycled in my wild discus and pleco tank (lots of poop!) prior to being installed here.

I think I'll follow everyone's advice and wait 2-3 weeks before adding any fish. I will start slowly adding snails first, then hardy shrimp (malayan shrimp) as my algae crew before adding in dithers then finally the king and queen of the tank - a pair of wild apistogramma!

Thanks all


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## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

I started up a tank with Amazonia just over 3 weeks ago and was finally able to add my fish yesterday. Like you, I started with filter media from another tank and packed in a ton of fast growing stems and floaters and while I was a little impatient, it really went by quickly! So, you should be ready to go in just a couple of weeks.


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## ldk59 (Jan 30, 2009)

You will still need to do water changes... no amount of plants or "magick potion" from any aquarium manufacturer is going replace a good old fashioned water change... 

Bad water out... Good water in roud:

Doesn't get any simpler than that.


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## illumnae (Dec 27, 2007)

The rationale for water changes is to "dilute" the ammonia being released. However, if the plants and bb and any chemical filtration (e.g zeolite) is already taking away the ammonia, then they are good "replacements" for good old fashioned water changes, albeit at a potentially slower removal rate than water changes right?

From what I'm reading, the shrimpnow "change 100% water many times a day" method removes the ammonia in 2 weeks. Experiences here show 2-3 weeks ammonia removal using cycled filter + plants, so I'd say both methods are equally effective independent of each other. Of course, together they may be even more effective, unless the water changes have a detrimental effect (e.g. destroying bacteria culture, which reduces effectiveness of the non-waterchange method).

Too many variables! I think I'll stick to the cycled filter + plants method with my usual waterchange regime instead of the daily/multi-daily one.


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## Digsy (Mar 4, 2006)

illumnae said:


> The rationale for water changes is to "dilute" the ammonia being released. However, if the plants and bb and any chemical filtration (e.g zeolite) is already taking away the ammonia, then they are good "replacements" for good old fashioned water changes, albeit at a potentially slower removal rate than water changes right?
> 
> From what I'm reading, the shrimpnow "change 100% water many times a day" method removes the ammonia in 2 weeks. Experiences here show 2-3 weeks ammonia removal using cycled filter + plants, so I'd say both methods are equally effective independent of each other. Of course, together they may be even more effective, unless the water changes have a detrimental effect (e.g. destroying bacteria culture, which reduces effectiveness of the non-waterchange method).
> 
> Too many variables! I think I'll stick to the cycled filter + plants method with my usual waterchange regime instead of the daily/multi-daily one.


It sounds like you've got it down. I too think excessive water changes are completely unnecessary in this case and I had great luck with just a normal partial change once a week. Good luck!


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## ldk59 (Jan 30, 2009)

I was not advocating the "shrimp now" method your referring to... my point was that there are no substitutes for water changes.

Plain & Simple roud:

Your dealing with a closed system inside your aquarium, your plant bio-mass
and potions will serve to detoxify the Ammonium compounds in the water...
but the only way to completely remove them from your system is to perform
periodic water changes. (via dilution as you pointed out).

In reading your initial post, I *mistakenly* assumed you were trying to cycle your tank with no water changes (as I saw no reference to them)... My bad!
Reading your subsequent posts I see that you have a plan that includes
regular partial water changes... 

I've seen alot of products the purport to replace the need for WCs 
(and other regular maintainance duties) come and go in the ~42 years
since I started my first aquarium... a few actually even worked to some degree 
(most however are nothing more than snake oil) but none of them could come even close to replicating the benefits of a simple water change.

I'll stop typing now (sound of fat old guy dismounting soap box here)

Be sure to share some pics of your tank with us.. we like pics around here :icon_mrgr

Larry


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## illumnae (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks for all the input, it was my bad not mentioning water changes from the start 

Here's an update. I got impatient and put in some shrimp from another tank that I was decommissioning on Day 7. I figured these shrimp were either going to be altum/heckel food in my community tank, or would have a fighting chance of survival in this one, so I chose the lesser of 2 evils. Shrimp being smaller and more sensitive to bad water conditions, I also figured that they would be the best indicator of ammonia levels in the water, since I don't trust ammonia test kits.

I am happy to say that the shrimp are happily doing well in the tank, with not a single death! I guess the fast growing plants (I see 4 inches of growth in the Rotala wallichii 'long leaf' and 2-3 inches of growth in the Didiplis diandra as well as multiplying floating plants) and the "ammonia remover" and the cycled filter are doing their job! Today I threw in 3 nerite snails. 

I intend to add in rest of the bioload very slowly, with the schooling dithers going in next week (Week 2) and the king/queen of the tank (Apistogramma) going in thereafter. The zebra otos will be going in last!

Here's a picture taken late last week, prior to the great growth I was talking about


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## Hamsta (May 28, 2009)

That looks awesome!

Could you post a pic of it when it grows out?


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## illumnae (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks 

I started a journal here:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/p...allon-planted-office-tank-56k.html#post878428


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## ldk59 (Jan 30, 2009)

Very nice looking tank... I like the scape roud:

Think it's going to be a real winner when it grows out.

Larry


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## illumnae (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks  It seems that amazonia cycling time is overhyped. Shrimp went in on day 7, snails went in on day 8 and fish are in there now (20 cardinal tetras) on day 12. No signs of stress, no deaths at all. I think the fast growing stems and floaters have alot to do with it. In the 12 days, the stems have more than doubled in mass and the floaters have split multiple times.


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## Mr. Fisher (Mar 24, 2009)

I've cycled several Amazonia tanks...just buy an API test kit. If NH3+4 or N02 is readable, then don't add fish, shrimp, fauna. They will die.

Cycling aquasoil has nothing to do with whether or not you use a cycled and established filter. The Aquasoil releases nitrogen in the form of Nh3 for up to 6 weeks.

There is no responsible way around getting a test kit.

Adding shrimp 7 days into a new aquasoil tank is pushing it. Glad you haven't had any losses.

I do not think that using shrimp as a water test kit is humane. API test kits are plenty accurate for this purpose.


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## illumnae (Dec 27, 2007)

Cycling aquasoil has everything to do with a cycled and established filter. A cycled and established filter would contain beneficial bacteria, which in turn creates an established nitrogen cycle. This means that NH3 will be quickly converted by the bacteria to NO2 and subsequently NO3. Whether there's sufficient bacteria to convert all the NH3 released by the aquasoil is another matter altogether, but to say that cycling aquasoil has nothing at all to do with a cycled and established filter is just ignorant. 

Beneficial bacterial can double in numbers in the span of 24 hours. Hence, if there's insufficient bacteria initially to consume all the ammonia released by aquasoil, there'll be double the amount tomorrow, 4 times the amount in 2 days ad infinitum. The 7 days is really to allow whatever bacteria I had (probably a substantial amount in itself since the filter was cycled in a well established and well stocked tank) to increase to up to 64 times the amount initially there. That isn't taking into account water changes and fast growing stems + floaters as well as ammonia removers.

I have had experience setting up soil tanks. This is my first aquasoil tank, but I've set up many Gex soil tanks (it's another japanese brand and the soil is similar to ADA), and my decision to put fauna in after 7 days is borne of experience with the other brand of soil and it isn't "pushing it" nor is it "inhumane". As my experience in this particular tank has shown, it's perfectly feasible to do what I did and still succeed. Perhaps you may like to err on the side of caution, or take a laboratory based test kit approach to everything, but I don't enjoy having my hobbies determined by numbers and nothing else. Logic, experience, knowledge and a dose of caution are better than any test kits to me.

edit: apologies if my response may seem a little too harsh. I was offended by Mr. Fisher's post and my response came out abit stronger than intended.


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## Solid (Jul 19, 2009)

Not to derail this thread but, I have a related question. I want to add Ada amazonia II to an aquarium that is already set up and has fish in it. I have moon sand in it now and don't think my plants like it, so I wanted to put a layer of aqua soil on the bottom. So, is there anyway to leech the nitrogen/ammonia out before putting it in a new tank? Can I soak it in a bucket and change the water every day for a few weeks? I don't have a second aquarium so I need a way to cycle it outside of my aquarium.


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## beedee (Jul 1, 2010)

^ did you ever find out the answer to that question?


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