# 38 gallon update 1/21 no 56k!



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

so i recieved my glosso and ludwigia peruensis today from aquariumplants.com. the ludwigia was in ok condition, but the glosso looks horrible. i don't know if it will come around. i can only hope so. here are some photos of it. can i have your opinion?
















here is the peruensis. for some reason, it looks A LOT like hygrophila corymbosa or alternanthera reineckii. what to you experts think?? did i get ripped?
















again, here are the new additions with their positions in the tank, and then a photo without the horrible circles:


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

With the glosso, spread it out. You need to plant each stem about a 1/4" apart. It is a royal PITA and you will need tweezers! But it dose look great when it fills in


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i don't think i can, given the crappy condition the glosso is in.. it's so fragile and lifeless. maybe i will be able to once it revives. what do you think?


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

I would send an email/phone call to the vendor and let them know the condition of plants if you havent, I dont know what the glosso will do planted like that.


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## conduct (Mar 25, 2005)

That glosso does not look so hot. Is it just the picture or it sort of a lime green / yellow looking? 
I am no expert but I thinkk your glosso started to melt in the box.

On a lighter note the tank will look real good given some time to grow out.
But in the journal the 2nd photo the neon anus is a little disturbing :icon_redf


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## conduct (Mar 25, 2005)

sorry double post.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

obviously? i mentioned that it was in horrible condition. :icon_conf


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## conduct (Mar 25, 2005)

danepatrick said:


> so i recieved my glosso and ludwigia peruensis today from aquariumplants.com. the ludwigia was in ok condition, but the glosso looks horrible. i don't know if it will come around. i can only hope so. here are some photos of it. can i have your opinion?


That is what I gave was my opinion :icon_wink


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

some people are such smart arses.:icon_roll


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## nellis (Oct 27, 2005)

that "perunsis" looks a lot like the "peruvian ludwigia" we sell in the store, i'm not sure of the latin, but it looks right judging by the name.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

nellis said:


> that "perunsis" looks a lot like the "peruvian ludwigia" we sell in the store, i'm not sure of the latin, but it looks right judging by the name.


thanks for your opinion nellis.


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## Clone (Feb 29, 2004)

> nellis: that "perunsis" looks a lot like the "peruvian ludwigia" we sell in the store, i'm not sure of the latin, but it looks right judging by the name.


 Yes it does. I bought some from the Fish Place and it is has turned deep red. So much so that it make the red temple in the tank look pale and washed out. IME the plant leans a little and doesn't produce side shoots.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

alright, well i pulled all the glosso as i should be receiving some on 8/16 from snailpoo. i re-arranged my tank as well as i felt there was a lack of aquascape. who knows. the tank is pretty cloudy, but that's from re-arranging.








a lot of the leaves from the peruensis have fallen off. hopefully it will come back. i moved the crypts behind the driftwood and on the right side. you can't really see them because they're still so tiny. this is SUCH a baby tank.


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## organic sideburns (Dec 22, 2005)

I like the current look and once the glosso arrvies and gets established it should be even better. I wouldnt move those crypts around too much right now. I have learned that certain crypts might not do too well if they are moved. They could 'melt'.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

a question for you guys out there..
i have a little bit of green spot algae growing on the glass and some on some leaves. i've heard before that it was because of *too much* phosphate, but recently i've heard it was from a lack of phosphate. my phosphates are about 4 ppm (which i know is higher than what it should be). so therefore, i'm thinking what i've recently been told is incorrect. also, i _think_ i read somewhere that excess iron will also intise this?
what do you guys think?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

alright.. so im looking for opinions (gentle ones).. i've been dosing the ei method pretty strictly..
i've been dosing 1/2 tsp nitrates instead of 1/4. so.. my schedule looks like this..
1/2 tsp nitrate
1/24 tsp potassium
1/24 tsp phosphate
mind you, i have 2.5 wpg so i'm probably not growing fast enough to keep up with all the dosing.
i think my nitrates are high as they are dark red on the API test kit. def more than the 20ppm mark. so i think i'm going to dose 1/2 tsp from now on.
my phosphate is somewhere in between the 2.0 and 5.0ppm colors on the API test, so i think i'm a little high there as well. i'm dosing macros on m,w,f and micros (csm+b and iron) t,th,sat. i think what i am going to start doing is cutting down my dosing to only twice a week. macros on mondays, and thursdays. micros on tuesdays and fridays. wc on mondays (same as now). so how does this new schedule sound? i'm trying to get my parameters in check. do you guys think cutting it down to twice a week help with the green spot algae and readings?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

new moonlight picture.. (since i moved things around)


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## Y0uH0 (Dec 19, 2005)

The moonlight shot is really nice,gave me the "under the sea" feel.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

alright. updated pic. the rotala indica has really taken off and so has the baby tears. the one stem of bacopa caroliniana has become an inch taller and i'm looking forward to making a bunch out of it. the glosso should be coming in on wednesday. however, i'm thinking about laying it ONLY in the front and putting maybe some dwarf sag on the left in front of the spiralis and peruensis. speaking of the peruensis, all of the leaves have totally come off. that's why there's just ugly stalks in the picture. sorry.








what the rotala used to be:


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Looking much better. What you are calling indica is more likely Rotala rotundifolia


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

yea? oh well.. i've been calling it that because that's what it came into the store as.. thanks for the heads up though.


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## Y0uH0 (Dec 19, 2005)

Is that some water lily i see in the far right of your tank? Seems to me that they are starting to grow some floating leaves.You may want to trim those off beause the plants will start to grow floating leaves rather than submerged ones.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

Y0uH0 said:


> Is that some water lily i see in the far right of your tank? Seems to me that they are starting to grow some floating leaves.You may want to trim those off beause the plants will start to grow floating leaves rather than submerged ones.


it's actually tiger lotus. yea.. i know you can "train" them. i've just been letting them grow to the surface because i've been too lazy to trim them when they get the length i should cut them. ahhh well..


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

nice tank!

one little suggetion tho... you dont even really need to change it but it will probably look better...

the driftwood on the right seems to be pointing to the right with its " branches" if you face those in it will usually look better.... and heck it only takes a second to move it around and if you dont like it to move it back.

good luck with the tank!

- fish newb -


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

Fish Newb said:


> nice tank!
> 
> one little suggetion tho... you dont even really need to change it but it will probably look better...
> 
> ...


yea, i'm sure you're right. the reason i have it like that is because its growing on the top, this side of the wood and if i turned it around, i wouldn't be able to see much of the moss and monitor when i need to spread it out some. when it grows out a little more, i will defenately put that suggestion into play. thanks for the advice.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

alrighty..
tonight, i added the glosso that i received from snailpoo. i tried to plant it the best i could. so, did i do it right?
(left side. the little patch, is marsilea quadrifolia)
















(right side)








fish newb, i took your advice and switched the driftwood around.. how's it look?
and here is an overall tank shot..


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## Nightshop (May 12, 2006)

Wow, looks very nice! Good luck with the glosso!


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

When you are planting gloss, push it all the way in intil you just see the top of the leaves. You shouldn't see any stem. I have even planted glosso with only 1 leaf and it does fine. The plant is very resiliant. If you plant it as deep as I have indicated, it has almost no chance of being uprooted.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

alright, so here's an update. i added some red jungle val,regular jungle val, and a couple pieces of java fern. cut the bacopa caroliniana down into two pieces and moved to back, cut some rotala and moved a little, and cut some wisteria and moved to the other side of the tank. the val doesn't look the best. it looks like some of the leaves were cut :icon_conf do you think it will be ok? how will it grow? i have a feeling it will melt down and then re-grow. the glosso keeps floating up, but a few pieces _do_ look like they are growing. i finally got another light as my old one's ballast went out and i wouldn't be able to get another until september. so i had to pay for a brand new one. that sucked.. anyway, here is the picture:


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

bump (looking for some comments and answers to question)


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## Y0uH0 (Dec 19, 2005)

Yes,your val does look like it has been cut as i have done so before during my previous experience with them. Do not worry,it will be fine,i don't think the leaves will melt off. Since vals are known to grow leaves there are up to several feet long,the cut off part may just be the tip of the iceberg. What will happen in due time is that the val will just continue growing its stap-like leaves. there will be new leaves sprouting out while at the same time,the existing leaves will grow longer,only difference is,these old leaves have a cut look.No worries=)


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

so the val doesn't grow "thicker", just longer? so when they reach the top and start getting long, i just snip them at an angle like that?


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## Y0uH0 (Dec 19, 2005)

they won't really get thicker. They'll just end up with a few more of those straps.Also,they will send out numerous runners so before you know it,you'll have a very dense growth of vals. Yep,you can just snip it off when it gets too long. At least that was what i did


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

*update and i need some answers to questions, PLEASE.*

ok, so tonight i did a little grooming and a little moving of the marsilea as i didn't have luck with glosso. apparently my light just doesn't cut it. afterall, i only have 2.5 wpg.
here are some tank photos:

























ok, and here is my problem. first i will give the specs of my tank and info in order for you guys to help answer my questions.
38 gallon
2.5wpg
lights on for 12 hours a day
pressurized co2 24/7 at about 1.5 bps and co2 exceeding 30ppm.
i WAS dosing 3x/wk = 1/4 tsp nitrate, 1/24 tsp potassium, 1/24 tsp phosphate M,W,F and 5ml csm+b, and 3ml flourish iron on T,TH.
currently, i am dosing 2x/wk.
both then AND now, i am still exceeding 20ppm of nitrate, and about 3.0-4.0ppm of phosphate. 
i changed how often i was dosing because i was getting a lot of GSA.
50% water changes on mondays.
since the addition of the glosso, i started noticing my plants to me what looks like they are dying, or are lacking something. i even lost all of my ludwigia repens. now, even after switching to 2x a week, i am really getting some GSA and what either looks to me like brown algae, or decaying of my plants. if there's any info that i'm lacking for you guys to help answer, please ask. here are some photos so that maybe you can tell me what this looks like. also, check the photo of the entire tank to see if you can give me any hints or tips.

















































personally, it looks like brown algae AND like i'm having a defeciency of some sort.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

bumpy. help me please.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

another bump.


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## riverrat (Jul 14, 2005)

I would dose this

M-W-F

1/4 kno3
1/16 phosphate
1/16 potassium

T-TH-S
7ml micro
maybe 1ml or 2 of iron.

Sunday nothing 
w/c MON

You might have been light on your dosing. Put your tests away for now. Trust the EI method. I would also suggest you push the co2 up. I don't trust any method to find the ppm of co2. If I did all my fish and shrimp would surely be dead. But they are not. Go by what your eyes see.

If you dose the above, push your co2 up you should see some good pearling later in the day. Then you will know that you are heading in the right direction.

By the way ... GSA is usually the result of low phosphate or low Co2


Good luck. 

river

P.S. Dont' worry so much about scaping right now. Take it easy on the trimming and let you tank turn into a jungle. It will then start to balance and you can make your changes slowly. Slow changes are very important until you gain some balance.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well, this past monday i upped to 3x/wk on kn03 and potassium.
being that i have a good amount of phosphate coming out of the tap, i'm only adding it on mondays. 1/4 tsp kno3, 1/24 tsp potassium, 1/24 tsp phosphates
on t,th,s 5ml csm+b, and 3ml iron.

i don't think i should up the co2 as my ph is already a low 6.5 and i'm pushing 2 bps. won't the ph drop even more if i increase the co2? i don't want to take a shot at losing all my fish.

my phosphates are NOT low. that's what's odd. they're reading 3-5 ppm. TOO HIGH actually. so the gsa i have is not from low phos, or low co2 i believe. it has GOT to be coming from elsewhere.

i'm just trying to find answers.

the edges of the leaves are turning brown. i know that's a deficiency. from what though?


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## wolfy80 (Feb 15, 2006)

Hey there!

I'm currently running an almost identical setup just like yours. (Same size, wpg, etc..)

I also ran into the same problems as you lol (GSA, stunted growth, spots..)

First of all, you have to be aware that constantly moving plants around and trimming them will send them into a temporaly "shock" and will delay nice new growth for a few days.. 

IMO:

- Increase your Co2 gradually! Don't trust Co2 charts too much.. 

- cut back lighting to 8 - 10 hours until GSA goes away.

- trust Tom Barr's EI methode and stick to it for a few weeks. You will see improvement!
Tank's (1)
20~40gal
50%H20 change-weekly
+/-1/4Tsp-KN03 3x a week
+/-1/16+Tsp-KH2P04 3x aweek
+/-1/16+Tsp K2S04 3x a week
+/-5ml Trace 3x a week
+/-1-2ml Fe/Iron 3x a week

- watch Seachem Iron! It's very potent stuff IMO. (I only dose iron 2mk twice a week @ same tank size and with much more bioload.)

- Get some young ottos and a few shrimp to help with your algae. Shrimp work "wonders" once the lights go out.

Here's some pics of my tank at almost exactly the same tank specs (except DIY co2..)

Hope that helped. 
Cheers.


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## riverrat (Jul 14, 2005)

Let me ask you this. How are you testing for ph? test kit .... monitor?
What is your kh? How are you coming up with you co2 ppm? Kh ph chart or degassed tank water?

I can't stress to you how much I believe co2 has to eyeballed. Bubbles per second IMHO mean nothing. Bubble size can be different. Diffusion rate can differ ect.... 


If you think you are dosing enough ferts then all that is left is co2. 
I know that I am sounding like a Tom Barr drum beat. But time and time again when I have had problems it has always been co2. 

co2, If a limiting factor can result in plant growth that looks like a fert deficiency. Stunting ....tips dying....melting.... ect.


Anyhoo... You have gone back to good fert regime. See what happens after 2 weeks then possibly look at the co2. 

Go slow with your changes. One thing at a time and wait and see what happens. Then once you make the right change and see the difference you will be sure what it was.

again, good luck
riverrat


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

riverrat said:


> Let me ask you this. How are you testing for ph? test kit .... monitor?
> What is your kh? How are you coming up with you co2 ppm? Kh ph chart or degassed tank water?
> 
> I can't stress to you how much I believe co2 has to eyeballed. Bubbles per second IMHO mean nothing. Bubble size can be different. Diffusion rate can differ ect....


i've been testing my ph with the api test kit. kh is like 11-13. it fluctuates a little. i WAS using the chart to get co2, but i haven't done that in a while. and i don't go by BPS, because i too realize that several factors play in to exactly how much co2 is being entered in the tank.



wolfy80 said:


> First of all, you have to be aware that constantly moving plants around and trimming them will send them into a temporaly "shock" and will delay nice new growth for a few days..


alright, i will stop trimming for a little while and see if thing gets stable.

i tested parameters this afternoon and this is what i got:
ph 6.4
kh 12
phosphate 2.0ppm. (mind you, i only dosed ONCE this week and topped off my tank) so apparently only dosing ONCE in a week is where i should be.
so according to that stupid chart, i have 143.3ppm of co2.
i didn't bother testing nitrates, because i ALWAYS exceed 20ppm. it always reads about 40ppm.
i have yet to get an iron test. i will this coming week though.

let me ask you guys this: can *TOO* much nutrients (other than too high of kno3) be _BAD_ for the aquarium?


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## riverrat (Jul 14, 2005)

I am with ya on the co2 chart. My readings would be at that level or slightly higher. Another way to test it is to degas your tank water. Put some tank water in a container. The container should have a large surface area. Let it set somewhere for 24 to 48 hours and maybe stir it up a couple times during that period. Then test its ph. 

At the moment I wouldnt be to worried about ferts going way to high as long as you are doing a 50 percent or larger water change every week. 

I can not remember if you are using pressurized co2 on a timer or not. But if you are try testing the water early, right before your lights come on. Its not always that you don't have enough co2 but that you don't consistently have enough during your lighting period. I have my co2 come on about two hours before my lights come on. My diffusion method isn't fast enough to drop my ph much quicker. 

Just an idea.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i've been running it 24/7.

-edit-

about 30 mins ago, i turned up the co2 to where it is now just a constant stream of bubbles. i'm scared my pH is going to drop too low and my fish are going to pay. i will let my water sit out for 24 hours and test the pH and kh of the water. will this give me a more accurate co2 reading?

-edit again-

so if i add another 96 watts to the tank, do you think the algae problem will go away as the plants will be taking in more nutrients?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

b u m p. looking for some replies.


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## riverrat (Jul 14, 2005)

2.5 watts per gallon is plenty. More light will only help the algae. Test your degassed water tomarrow and post the results. Stay steady on your ferts for now and wait. I know its tough to sit it out but hang in there.

Is this a new setup. Recently planted?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

eh.. new as about say... 2 months.
ha. i know i'm probably a pest for bumping up my own album, but hey, i like replies. i LOVE learning and advice.
i will post the results of the water tomorrow about this time.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well i couldn't wait til midnight, so i tested the degassed or "semi" degassed water early and found my pH to be at 8.0 and kH at 15. so whatcha think riverrat?


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## riverrat (Jul 14, 2005)

I would imagine that your co2 level is okay then. If your fish have never flinched at your co2 levels now you might be able to go a tad lower. But that is up to you.

So for a plan of action if I were you. 
Stay steady on the ferts for now. Your tank is still really new and lacks balance. Give the fert regime at least 3 to 4 weeks of steady dosing and not a lot of messing around with moving stuff. Maybe trim on portion of the tank during the first week w/c and the another during the 2nd w/c. That way you are doing nothing drastic and are left with a good portion of biomass in the tank at all times.

Some people can start a new tank and in 3 months have a nice aquascape with lush growth. They know what the heck they are doing. For us plant killing beginners it takes time. I was also very excited when I first started a planted tank and wanted to harvest a photo perfect tank. I am just about to start my first real attempt at an aquascape and have had a planted tank for a year. I can grow plants well now and have learned many lessons of the last year. The hardest learned lesson is to be patient. Slow changes are key. I have also learned to beat almost every major kind of algae. The only kind I haven't had is bga. Take this time while your tank balances and try a few new plants in small quantities. That way you find plants that will grow well in your water conditions. Learn to trim different species. When your tank finally finds balance, you will have a better idea of what plants you may like to incorporate into a scape.

Stick with a steady regime. Give it a little time and post back with your results. I will be curious to know how it is going. The key to keeping planted tanks are time. tictoctictoc .... let some pass and keep an even keel for a while. 

riverrat


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

so does having a kH of 14 mean that my water is really hard, or really soft? if it's hard, does that mean that it's too high for good plant growth? should i be adding something to soften the water? would that help with everything?


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## riverrat (Jul 14, 2005)

Hmmm good question ...now that you ask. Is your reading in ppm or degrees. If its in ppm you co2 is not low enough. But I assumed it is in degrees because of you 8.0 ph. If my assumption is right ....yes you have hard water. I would not worry to much about it though. To make your water softer you would have to consider a RO unit. I would not be to concerned about your water hardness right now though. Put your concern on steady ferts! :thumbsup:


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

wood looks much better turned around!

tank is shaping up nice!

- fish newb -


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

riverrat - the kH is in degrees where as hte pH is in ppm. so if the water is indeed hard, then i will need something to soften is such as peat or as you mentioned, RO water. now, it's VERY odd, because before i new hardly ANYthing, i had a 20 gallon with 1.5 wpg, no ferts, and little plants, and i had NO algae problem, and great growth. it's so odd. the only thing i was adding to my water was blackwater expert.
















THAT probably made a difference in my plant growth as it softens the water tremendously because of it's tannins. i bet that is my problem.

i just tested the degasses water again and it's reading at ph ~8.4ppm and kH ~ 15 degree. it's been almost 48hrs that it's been sittting out.
so i'm thinking now, that i want to totally redo the tank. i think i should take all the fish out, put them in holding. then sprinkle some peat down and then place 100% eco complete substrate.

fish newb - thanks. i'm actually going to move the stones to the left side of the tank pretty soon.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

bummmmmmmp


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

ok guys. i totally broke everything down, removed as much of the standard gravel as i could, so now i have about 100% eco complete. i aquascaped, which i'm sure was a waste of time since i'm sure i'll have complications in a few weeks. my question though, is how long do i wait before i start adding ferts? should i start tomorrow, or once roots start getting settled? when should i start adding co2? which one do i start adding first?? i'll have a picture up asap. til then, HEEEELLLLPPPP!!!!!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

can someone give me some advice?


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Get everything going RIGHT NOW!!!!  
Start the CO2 up, then add the ferts, NPK, tomorrow add the trace


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

at least _someone_ replies. geeze. no love in this place.


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## tha_beeg (May 16, 2006)

i do believe i saw some java ferns planted in subsrate in some of your pics. i would either get rid of them or attach them to some driftwood because after awhile their roots and base will rot away even though the leaves seem to be doing fine.

-ps you wouldnt happen to work at petland would you?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

so after a week and a half of re-doing the tank, this is what it looks like tonight after a WC. i know it's a little empty, but i'm getitng THREE packages with plants on wednesday to help fill some of this in. i'm having a little issue with some brown algae on some leaves. i have a few otos, but every time i try to add some more, they never make it. i'm thinking about adding a bristle nose as well. do you guys think that would make a good addition without destroying the plants? i also, recently split the co2 line with one part going through the reactor (still) and added a diffuser under a zoo med powerhead which sprays co2 mist back and forth around the tank. i haven't found it to be more efficient, but i'm using a wooden diffuser right now. i should recieve a glass diffuser sometime this week and hopefully i will see better results in the future.

*FULL TANK SHOT*









*R. ROUNDFOLIA PEARLING*: notice the brown algae on the leaves









everywhere i read, brown algae is caused by not _enough_ light and/or a new tank, excess nutrients. so i assume i'm getting this because 1) this is still a new tank 2) i haven't filled in the tank fully with plants yet. do you guys agree? i'm going to wait about a month before i trim any plants back. so let me ask this: when i DO trim the plants down after a month, should i trim them really low as to let new growth fill the stem, or only trim a certain amount off? if so, how much?

i also believe the red melon sword was grown emersed before i recieved it. it's acclimated pretty well. the new growth is really red and longer leaves. to remove the old leaves, do i just pull them off at the base? that's what i read in a book once. i pulled some off tonight without asking first (just to see), so i'm hoping it survives.


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## Lil boy blue (Jan 26, 2006)

Your tank is looking great, good start.....and i think a bristle nose would be great they dont touch plants and i love them....


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

lil boy blue - thanks for the input.

anyone else have any advice on the algae?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Well I would tend to agree with the general consensus here concerning most of what has been said...the weekly 50% H20 change is good. We both have the same H20 and I agree totally about the phosphates (Baton Rouge water!) but I also do not dose nitrates hardly ever and when I do very little. I would agree that reducing the light duration to maybe 10 hours a day is a good idea until you've achieved some balance...I also would suggest some Excel which couldn't hurt. I am in a constant battle with Brown diatom algae but nothing else, but I too keep my CO2 very high...of course our water is already around 7.5 to begin with for a Ph level and high buffer capacity so the CO2 shouldn't be much of a factor in that regard...you don't have a deficiency in your plants, that is brown diatom algea...wip the leaves between your fingers and i'll bet that it will come right off...I've got the same problem but the high CO2 is keeping it in check. Let me guess, new leaves have been growing well, come out bright green and beautiful and then BAM!!...eventually look like the ones you've pointed out...that's not a deficiency that I've heard of...some might suggest chlorosis but if the brown discoloration comes off with a wipe of your fingers that's BDA...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*Agreed*

I agree totally with Riverrat...it was very difficult for me in the beginning to be patient...it seemed like it took _*forever*_ for anything to happen and that my plants aren't growing! But now I know better...another suggestion I would make is to increase your biomass...a regular mistake people make (I speak from experience) is to plant too lightly in the beginning...I didn't plant enough in my first 10G and it took forever to grow out and balance and then it took OFF...I had plants pearling like crazy and for some strange reason I can grow glosso in another 10G w/ no CO2 and 2.5wpg but I imagine it's because the tank is so well balanced and filled with plants...I think that the Eco-complete is a much better choice for long term growth and for asethic value as well...as for the swords I usually clip them as close to the base as possible which sometimes requires a little finess but makes the plant seem to grow new leaves better...

Riverrat - our H20 is naturally high in the Ph range usually around 8.0; but I'm surprised his reading for his hardness is totally opposite from mine...my readings are always like 300ppm which is ridiculous but true...I tend to agree with all your advice, it took me forever to really appreciate the time it took to see the changes...oh those were the days! lol!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

I agree totally with Riverrat...it was very difficult for me in the beginning to be patient...it seemed like it took _*forever*_ for anything to happen and that my plants aren't growing! But now I know better...another suggestion I would make is to increase your biomass...a regular mistake people make (I speak from experience) is to plant too lightly in the beginning...I didn't plant enough in my first 10G and it took forever to grow out and balance and then it took OFF...I had plants pearling like crazy and for some strange reason I can grow glosso in another 10G w/ no CO2 and 2.5wpg but I imagine it's because the tank is so well balanced and filled with plants...I think that the Eco-complete is a much better choice for long term growth and for asethic value as well...as for the swords I usually clip them as close to the base as possible which sometimes requires a little finess but makes the plant seem to grow new leaves better...

Riverrat - our H20 is naturally high in the Ph range usually around 8.0; but I'm surprised his reading for his hardness is totally opposite from mine...my readings are always like 300ppm which is ridiculous but true...I tend to agree with all your advice, it took me forever to really appreciate the time it took to see the changes...oh those were the days! lol!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

thanks for the input styxx.

BUMPING TO EVERYTHING ELSE...

so about the red melon sword - i "plucked" the old leaves in an attempt to create new growth. the NEW leaves are very long and RED. i can't wait til it fills in more. but my question is that *do you think what i had was grown emersed?*

*should i just let everything grow in like crazy and stabilize before trimming?*

*will excess iron aid in causing GSA?*


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Well I don't know about excess Iron but I suspect that it will increase the likelihood of algea growth substantially; I've noticed over the past few days that inceasing the CO2 and backing off the ferts has eliminated my BDA pretty well. Of course I also added some plants so that might have something to do with it as well...my suggestion would be to let everything grow in until it looks like a complete jungle. Pruning now only inhibits the plants growth and lengthens the time necessary to achieve some balance in the tank. When you have a large plant biomass you can begin dosing ferts more agressively but in the beginning I would advise caution and do so minimally until such time as you have more plants to absorb the additional nutrients (that is unless you want to go and buy a lot more to put in there already!) Just some thoughts...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

update time. serious growth has been happening with everything.
kotoeloncat - your c. furcata has exploded!! hahaha.
the macrandra has been growing really well also.
not much algae besides what is on the glass. here are some photos.

i'm trying to let it grow into a jungle.
full tank shot









left side









right side









center


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## organic sideburns (Dec 22, 2005)

this tank has quite alot of depth, very nice. Let it grow in some more but for now it looks great, gj.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

believe it or not, it's only 12 inches wide. i don't plan on trimming until i can't see any light coming through. lol.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Sounds like a good plan...keep up the good work!


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## the_noobinator (Jun 10, 2006)

sometimes it's more fun to let your plants get out of control, so you can trim and make it look just how you want, replanting trimmed stems if you have room.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

so just an update on parameters for anyone who cares.. :icon_roll :icon_roll 
ph ~6.4ppm
ammonia = 0ppm
nitrite = 0ppm
nitrate = ~20ppm (end of the week)
phosphate = 4~5ppm
kH = ~13 degrees

10/03/06

degassed water = ~15 degrees
ph = ~8.4-8.8ppm


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

update with pictures and a trim.

*left side*









*right side*









*full tank shot*


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## A Hill (Jul 25, 2005)

tank is looking nice and full(er) what happened to the moss on that wood? was it those damm SAEs?

- fish newb -


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## xcooperx (Jun 21, 2006)

Looking Good Patrick, what is the grass plant on the foreground, and you raotala macranda is really growing well :thumbsup:


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

the moss was turning brown. i think i laid it out too think when i tied it on. maybe i'll try some moss in the future. the foreground is marsilea and dwarf sag. i'm not sure which you are referring to.


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## JustOneMore21 (May 23, 2006)

I'm guessing that cooper is talking about the Dwarf Sag, since its more grassy than the marsilea.

Your tank looks very nice! I've been looking through all the pages of your journal/log because I'm going to setup a 38g planted soon. I have been trying to decide how much light I want over the tank. I want high light, around 3wpg, but its almost impossible to find that range of light.

Are you using DIY or pressurized CO2? I'm sure its in the log somewhere, but I must have missed it.

Also what fish are in the tank?

It looks great!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

Love4Animals20 said:


> I'm guessing that cooper is talking about the Dwarf Sag, since its more grassy than the marsilea.
> 
> Your tank looks very nice! I've been looking through all the pages of your journal/log because I'm going to setup a 38g planted soon. I have been trying to decide how much light I want over the tank. I want high light, around 3wpg, but its almost impossible to find that range of light.
> 
> ...


pressurized. i have 2.5 wpg over it. from my own experience and from what others tell me, i wouldn't want anymore light. i have enough problems with staghorn, GSA, and GDA. i don't need more light to throw everything out of wack. i have one of the current 96watt fixtures over my tank. i am quite pleased. my tank is overcrowded. i have rainbows, neons, black neons, peacock gudgeons, black phantom tetras, german rams, a pearl gourami, cories, otos, and amanos.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Danepatrick,
Do you guys have any ottos @ work and if so how much?? I never have had much success with keepting them, they're so difficult to keep alive and I can't for the life of me figure out why...I bought 4 intially now I can only find maybe 1 or two and the others died a few days later...typical...if you don't where do you think I can get some b/c [email protected] doesn't ever have any...


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## skiboarder72 (Oct 13, 2006)

that lud peru looks about right, i just bought a bunch of that stuff for my tank and it looks similar (though it has some whitish string roots? coming off of the joints) it turns red in high lighting


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

the peruensis is from a long time ago. the tank doesn't even look like that anymore. :icon_conf


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/water-parameters/37273-my-battle-against-algae-updated-10-a.html
currently, this is what i'm dealing with. _SIGH..._ :icon_cry: :icon_cry: :icon_cry: :help:


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

after all that trouble, this is as of tonight:


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

hopefully some of those plants were mine! Looking good Dane!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

of course they are lynn! congrats on the tigers' win this past saturday.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

looking good so far!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

alright.
update everyone.
i added a 24", 20W fluorescent bulb to my tank. 3 hours with 20W, 4 hours with 116W, then 3 more hours 20W. so, a 4 hour photoperiod.
i've also put the co2 on a timer. 3 hours before the photoperiod, and 3 hours after.
the GDA has been in check. i noticed a small area today, but for the most part, it's been controlled. plants are looking nice. no algae on them either. unfortunately, the glosso didn't work out. it kept growing upwards. there are still 2 or 3 little pieces still tucked in the gravel, so we'll see how that works.
so here are some photos:





and i FINALLY got a madagascar lace plant. it was just a bulb a week ago, now it's looking quite pretty. :hihi:


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## tha_beeg (May 16, 2006)

lookin good dane!:hihi: thanks for all the japonica it looks great and it did just the trick in filling in the holes in my 20 gal!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Dane, 
Since you asked for some pics...I guess that I should post some new ones but there's not been a lot of interest I guess in the thread! lol...

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/35248-starting-new-60g-tank.html


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

thanks michael!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

When December get's here you're going to have to give us an update!!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well michael, you asked for it. it's still december first for a few more minutes (11:55 right now) and i'm going to give an update! i added some jungle val at the left.. i just felt like i needed something tall there. the hair grass was working for me so i decided to make a "field" of it. i think it would be interesting for this stuff to fill in to the left and create some sort of "field" where the fish can hang out. anyway... here it is:


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

looking good so far!!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well, here's an update. red temple and anubias to come. just made some dwarf riccia sandwiches. LOL. (thanks lynn).









(damn riccia fell off petrified wood for some reason) GRR.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

looking GREAT!!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

alright. added plants:

Pogostemon stellatus
Anubias Nana
Anubia Quadrifolia
Alternanthera reineckii (behind the rocks. it hasn't made it's way up yet.)
Vesicularia dubyana (tied to a mesh slab in front of the blyxa.)










Soon to come:

changing out the jungle vals for corkscrews
adding tiny piece of driftwood under coffefolia so it doesn't have to sit on gravel


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## Nightshop (May 12, 2006)

Make that val change quick! When they say Jungle they aren't kidding, those things propagate like mad! I have to throw away so many baby plantlets it's not even funny!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well i think they took a pretty hard hit when i got them, because i've yet to see runners. i think it's stunted for a bit. oh, but don't worry. i've had them before and i'm NOT complaining now! lol.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i guess i do good with madagascars?:icon_bigg


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## ianmoede (Oct 1, 2004)

Nice leaves? HAH. How is your riccia doing attaching to your petrified wood?


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Dane, nice job. It really is looking great. So did you place the mini riccia sandwiches on top of the wood? Is that how you did it? Your lace is loving your tank. Nice job~


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well guys, i actually pulled all my riccia up and sold it. it was becoming too big of a PITA to scoop all of that crap out every day and my angels would end up nocking some pieces off. it just didn't work out. i still have one patch of riccia laying on the substrate and i still have 2 little mini sandwiches of dwarf riccia laying next to the bigger one. i think that's enough riccia for me.  maybe later, i'll get ballsy and try some moss. i've never had any luck with that stuff.


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## ianmoede (Oct 1, 2004)

I think most people come to that conclusion. Dwarf sag and riccia are neat for a bit, then turn into pains.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Dane, PM me with your email address...school is crazy here now, but I want to keep in touch! And where is the update damn it?!?! ...need....pics...badly....lol!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

haha. they're coming guys! i promise! PMing you now mike.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

ok, so no photos just yet as i'm letting things fill in.
a couple of weeks ago, i slacked off tremendously on ferts as i got extremely tied up and couldn't remember to do it. as of today, i'm having issues with BBA, and diatom algae. i don't know why the BBA is arrising as my co2 has not changed. i previously had it runnning for 10 hours a day. 


> i added a 24", 20W fluorescent bulb to my tank. 3 hours with 20W, 4 hours with 116W, then 3 more hours 20W. so, a 4 hour photoperiod.
> i've also put the co2 on a timer. 3 hours before the photoperiod, and 3 hours after.


it was fine for the longest time, and now the BBA has started to appear.
any ideas where it is coming from? for now i've lowered the co2, instead running it 24/7 again. advice on fixing this problem?

i'm guessing that the diatom algae is from neglecting the tank and from doing larger sized water changes. i've shortened the photoperiod by 30 minutes since noticing the diatoms. i have 4 otos and tons of snails, but it's covering my anubias, hairgrass, and b. caroliniana. any ideas why this is showing up and what i can do to fix it?

currently, my dosing schedule is:
a hair less than 1/4 tsp KNO3
a hair less than 1/8 tsp PO4
a hair less than 1/8 tsp K2SO4

is this too much for 3 wpg over a 38 gallon? the PO4 i have to keep high in order to keep the GSA away.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

Bumping Bumping.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

I'm not sure why you have such a short photoperiod :icon_conf 

Why not run the 20w for a dawn-dusk light, but keep the main light on for at least 6 hours? You're not giving your plants a chance to utilize the nutrients in the water. 

The bba: you can spot treat it if possible...its just darn nasty to pick off. I suppose the excel spot treatment or peroxide treatment could work. You can dip the plants in peroxide for about 20 seconds (sometimes longer--sometimes less) until the bba turns orange--dead. The plants should recover. This method is much safer than a 20% bleach dip. 

The diatom algae...up your photoperiod...ever notice at crappy LFS's that their plants are covered with diatom algae because they don't get enough light  Some otos will help with that too. 

The EI dosing seems fine...but you'll have to manually remove that bba for quicker (immediate) results. I'm not one to wait for things to work out on its own either so I can commiserate.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i have such a short photoperiod because if anything longer, the GDA goes INSANE! i've had my tank like this forever and everything was perfect. all of a sudden, a little skipping on ferts and WHAM! diatoms and BBA. i've been overdosing excel and the BBA has gone away, but the diatoms are still there. the 4 otos i have do not touch the diatom algae. i'm thinking about getting either a rubber pleco or a CAE for a short time period (i am aware of them).


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

wait...is it green spot algae or brown diatom algae? GSA is really really hard to get rid of and you really can't count on plecos "targeting" algae...it might be better to trim and regrow/replant. If its brown diatom algae (rubs off easily), then otos will take care of it--or your fingers :icon_mrgr


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

see, that's where actually reading comes in. i never said GSA. i said GDA. the PITA kind. i haven't had the SPOT algae since the first week i started. that's fixed by upping the PO4. yes, BROWN diatom algae is my problem. otos are fat and lazy. don't do their job for me.  fingers = royal PITA!!!


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

danepatrick said:


> see, that's where actually reading comes in. i never said GSA. i said GDA. the PITA kind. i haven't had the SPOT algae since the first week i started. that's fixed by upping the PO4. yes, BROWN diatom algae is my problem. otos are fat and lazy. don't do their job for me.  fingers = royal PITA!!!


I don't apologize for not reading your entire thread, but being a bit more concise could help. Just trying to help out. good luck. Green dot...manually remove it.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

danepatrick said:


> i have such a short photoperiod because if anything longer, the *GDA* goes INSANE! i've had my tank like this forever and everything was perfect. all of a sudden, a little skipping on ferts and WHAM! diatoms and BBA. i've been overdosing excel and the BBA has gone away, but the *diatoms* are still there. the 4 otos i have do not touch the diatom algae. i'm thinking about getting either a rubber pleco or a CAE for a short time period (i am aware of them).


the whole thread didn't have to be read. just that particular post.

anyays. i apologize for the testiness.

i'd still appreciate some more advice anyone.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

as of now, this is a grow out tank as i am going to be swapping out the substrate to aqua soil. 



















the more i get into this thing, the more i hate my current layout and want to go to something simple. i like the many different species in a tank, yet i kind of want something simple with maybe 5-8 instead of 15.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Dane looks healthy though


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Dane,
I can tell personally that I really like the Aquasoil Amazonia. Whenever I get a chance I'm going to start to take some pics and post on a thread, but in the mean time I thought I would share some thoughts with you about your tank. I love watching how a person's tank will evolve with them over time and see the both the development of their layout and their development as an aquatic gardener. It is revealing and nice to see how people become acclimatized to the demands of the hobby. Of course, my friend, I wholeheartedly support your decision to change substrate. As you know I've (until now) always used Fluorite but there is no way that I will go back to that after using Aquasoil. The downside, cost to put it simply. It is not cheap and when you use it does affect your H2O chemistry (but I'm told it is only in the beginning) I've yet to see how long this phenomenon will last. Additionally, there is no question that you know how to successfully grow aquatic plants now...experience is the process of learning from your mistakes. I hope that you don't get frustrated with the hobby. Persistence with patience is the key!! I look forward to the next step in your tank's journey! Keep up the good work!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

*Time for an update...*

i will post pics when i get the nasty r. macrandra that i have growing out trimmed down and replanted. until then, here is a teaser of the old blackwood pieces that i got from jeff at adg. there are originally 6 or so pieces that i have epoxied together. i think it came out nice. the moss is some that arrived today from mecgeorgeneo. thanks denise!









i have a couple of Laetacara curviceps in the tank and i have to say, i have fallen in love with these little guys. they have so much personality. they're always so curious to see what's going on, but as soon as you get too close or make a fast move, they dart.









i am loving the aquasoil even after the meltdowns, hundreds of water changes, and losses of fish that it has cast upon me. i hope you guys look forward to the journey of this tank as it has just begun! :thumbsup:


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## PeteyPob (Apr 26, 2004)

Tanks looks great!
Your plants went out today, I also put in some taiwan moss, hope you have room!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Dane,
I love that moss...really nice! What is that plant in the back right hand corner? I'd love to try it out, it looks like that plant in Wood's 10G masterpiece, is it the same plant? What is up w/the blue light, actinic? That could be contributing to the algae problem you're having...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

*mike* - i think the moss will fill in well. the plant in the back right corner is just some green r. rotun. it usually grows like crazy in my tank, so when it start hitting the top, i'll send you some! yes, i do have a 50/50 bulb on the tank. i actually have had better results with it. it's half 10,000k/460nm. the algae problems were in the tank prior to this one mike. this is a whole new aquarium. don't go bringing up old stuff now!  lol. i've had better results with growth, pearling, and less algae with this bulb. i actually used it on the tank as things were growing out and was quite impressed. there is actually a thread that originally stimulated the thought to use it. i think if you do a little research, you'll find that actinics do not hurt the planted aquarium, but the 400-600 (roughly. i don't know for sure) nm range is where photosynthesis is at it's peak. if i'm wrong, correct me.

-edit- here is the thread i was referring to mike http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/41116-do-i-need-actinic-light-planted.html?highlight=actinic


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*wow*

I'll be damned. Who would have thought that a 50/50 would help inhibit algae growth! Oh I'm not binging up any old news don't worry! :wink: BTW - How is your water now that you've got the Purigen in there?? Did you keep the carbon with it or no? Let me know what you can send some of that green r. rotun too...email me. I think this tank is going to be (*^@#$)^ awesome...I love that moss you did an excellent job with that; I never have the patience to tie it all on there and it is so fragile. The HC that I've got is doing ok but I don't dare touch it! It's so tiny that I am scared to let the water flow be too high lest it get blown around...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

AHA!!!!!!!! I found this info regarding Aquasoil, thanks to Scolley's amazing powers of recollection:

http://www.adana.co.jp/_e_Aqua_Soil/


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i think it's been about 2 weeks now. things are starting to look a little better filling in and such. i think this layout will look much better than previous layouts. now that i have aquasoil, things are growing so well. the water is a lot softer and i can tell that the plants appreciate it more. i just recently trimmed the riccia and separated it into three pieces. i got some hc growing next to it. i'll see how it goes and if it does well, i'll do away with the riccia and keep a nice size area.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

very nice beginning!!!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

just another photo of one of the Laetacara curviceps. they're very shy and hart to get photos of. 










the crypts in the front went through melting, growing, and now deteriorating. i don't understand why they can't make up their mind. if they dont do well, i will pull them and try something else. any ideas on making them better? maybe some root tabs?










and finally.. 5 days later, you can see good growth in the rotala wallichi and rotala rotundfolia 'green'. the ludwigia repens is growing well, but not as quick. riccia is filling in the mesh nicely. i can't get the HC to fill in. i'm not sure what the trick is.


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## vollphann (Jun 3, 2005)

Hi Dane, tank looks good! I like the layout. My LFS, you know, the one that got the argument going, has a 50/50 bulb over their show tank, and I have to say they have never had an algae prob. That's about 2 yrs now , and since I'm in there at least 2x /wk, it's been very compeling evidence for me. God bless, and great growing!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

before the photo before last, i actually pulled the 50/50 bulb and replaced it with a 10,000k.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

the ludwigia needs to be trimmed. i recently hacked some plants down and sold some stems. i randomly had a big patch of the marsilea melt. weird?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

did a water change this morning and trimmed up some the ludwigia and dwarf riccia. this is before the lights go out and the lights are a little dim.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

a little change...

i took out the other piece(s) of driftwood and re-tied the moss to these two pieces. the other piece was just bugging me. things are finally starting to grow back in after the trim. the riccia is filling in well and the dwarf riccia is taking forever to grow through the mesh after it's trim. 

here you go..


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Jesus you think you got enough CO2 going look at that water surface! I didn't even realize until the last pic that its a 38G tank...so what kind of Discus is that?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

yea, i know there's a lot of co2. i have to have a lot in order to keep the BBA down. my moss seems to be prone to it. it gets this really nasty red BBA. it was sold to me as a turquoise blue discus. i've had it for 2 weeks now and it's colored up some, but it isn't eating much, so it hasn't had very much nutrition either. i bought some garlic tonight in hopes of getting it to eat. the dimensions of the tank are 36x12x20 if you're curious.


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## Anthony (Jan 11, 2005)

He might have a light film on the surface preventing the co2 or o2 bubbles from popping. The same thing occurs in my tank. Hey Dane, how is that discus doing in your tank. I had almost picked up a pair yesterday for my 40 gallon, but will wait to find a place for 4 rainbows to go.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i'm honestly not quite sure why, or what the film is. lol. the discus is.. "ehh.." he swims around, but doesn't eat very well. i plan on purchasing another one, but if this one keeps going at the rate it is, it will die a slow death. therefore i know they're not for me and will not get a second.


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## fresh_lynny (Mar 9, 2006)

Dne...it is looking good...I am so proud :icon_redf


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## LondonDragon (Mar 15, 2007)

Looking good  Shame I never started with nice gravel.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

FYI, if you remember our last conversation about HC, I heard from Elikewhoa that ADA ECA really gets it going...so I'm going to try it and report back...this is going to be my last ditch effort with this d*mn plant...I swear!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

******* thread algae is killing me! How do I get rid of this crap. I miss dosing some Excel and Potassium for a few days and BAM, there it is...ugh...so how is your tank coming along? Anything new to report??


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well mike, you asked for it. today, i pulled all of the dwarf hairgrass, decided riccia was doing really well for me and now i'm going to try a small "lawn" of it. so i now have 5 riccia mats + the one mat of dwaf riccia. i added a piece of driftwood with moss that i used to have in there. got some Limnophila aromatica from someone and trimmed the nasty l. repens. this week, i will trim the r. wallichi and make what i have fuller. only a few stims of l. arcuata have survived. well..


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

left side of the tank...
this side needs a lot of help.. 
i left the middle open in hopes that the glosso will fill out with 5 wpg.









right side...
not as bad, but some growing in to do.









the l. aromatica started melting, so all i have left are a couple of stems. the tops are starting to grow nicely and i'll trim and replant.









whole tank shot


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## macclellan (Dec 22, 2006)

Gorgous Acara. Is yours mischevious? Mine doesn't eat any plants, but just loves to rip off riccia and mosse chunks, and uproot foreground plants.

Do you know how to sex these?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

macclellan said:


> Gorgous Acara. Is yours mischevious? Mine doesn't eat any plants, but just loves to rip off riccia and mosse chunks, and uproot foreground plants.
> 
> Do you know how to sex these?


thanks! all three of mine are mischevious. i see them pulling on the riccia and wallichi every now and then but nothing major. i couldn't tell the sex of mine until they started maturing a little. i put in a third after having two for a while and found out that i now had 2 males and 1 female. when i introduced the third one, it (was a he) starting flaring out with the male that was already in the tank. i've since noticed the males fins getting longer and getting more colorful.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Ok, so how about an update?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well mike, no update but i'll put up some teasers.  i'll update when i get some plants in in the next week or two.
sorry for the glares.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

What a tease...now you know I need more than that! Give me more...I want to see the whole thing...btw, how is that glosso and riccia growing?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

glosso is green green. riccia is growing superb. i think i almost have enough to make a dividing "space" between the background and foreground. pretty soon i will be selling it regularly.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

no photos yet, but what i recently did was ditched the external reactor and am now using a rhinox 5000. by cutting out the reactor, the flow has increased dramatically, improving the circulation which i'm pretty sure i was lacking and what has been my problem.

this is the previous distribution method:









now, nothing complicated..
filter > uv sterilizer > rhinox in tank under spray bar.

i have noticed little tufts of bba here and there, but nothing serious. only time will tell if this will make a difference. i know one thing... i can actually see the co2 getting around the tank. i think if i have enough time tomorrow, i might do a little re-arranging in the tank.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

since that last update, things went to hell and now i'm starting over. new hardscape, new plants. 

new hardscape...









filling up the tank the FIRST time... EW









aquasoil milk shake...









after draining it once and filling it up for the SECOND time...









after second water change...









meanwhile, all of my fish and some left over plants hanging out...









already in the tank:
HC
blyxa japonica

plants to arrive tomorrow:
Ammannia Senegalensis
Hemianthus micranthemoides
(Glossostigma elatinoides
Heteranthera zosterfolia)
Rotala roundifolia
(Rotala macrandra v. 'narrow leaf'

light has been reduced to a 6 hour photoperiod with a 2 hour burst. = 96w(2hrs)+192w(2hrs)+96w(2hrs)
i reduced it to 6 because even 8 hours at that much light, seemed to be a li
ttle too much.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*hmmm*

This better be good. 4 pages and counting...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

woo hoo! plants arrived today!









i did have extras, so if you want to buy what's left go here

after the third water change, a little clearer...









a little closer...









i have never piled a tank with this much foliage on the initial setup! HOLY MOLY! the supplier forgot to send me the HM and glosso so i should be receiving that on tuesday. the plan is for the glosso to fill the left, while the HC fills in the right and when the HC gets full enough (if it even does), i will eventually tear out the glosso and convert the entire foreground to HC. HM will either go completely to the right, or in front of the rotundfolia, all the way to the left. suggestions please?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Now that is how you are supposed to start! I usually try and use a little more than what you have @ the beginning b/c I like the lattitude that give you in terms of fert flexibility. It looks awesome. I'm not too keen on the petrified wood/rock but the plants are really nice and healthy and finally the water has cleared up a bit. I can't wait until you see that HC take off...aquasoil is amazing. Let the fun begin!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

yea, i ordered extra, so i wouldn't have to worry about stems growing and having to replant them in order to make a full bush of plants. i looked back on old photos when i had the petrified wood, and i think that was the best my tank ever looked. the plants did come in nice. i'm sure some will melt and i'll lose something. i think i had another damn leak on my bottle, so i have to get that checked out on monday. i'm so pissed. i hope just adding excel will hold the algae off until then.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

after the FIFTH water change. phew.









i hope this scape produces a blend of nice color.









the HC seems to be browning. hopefully it will recover.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Well finally I can see! (no I wasn't blind) but I don't know what is up with that HC. I'm sure that if you leave it alone it will bounce back but it just might take a little time. Believe me it *loves* aquasoil and Excel, just be patient and you'll be fine. I can't wait to see how this looks in about a month. You're going to look back at this tank and say "I can't believed it looked like that"...lol. Tuesday I'm going to post some pics and you won't believe what my HC has done Dane. Just be patient, keep that CO2 up and the Excel coming every single day.


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## JustOneMore21 (May 23, 2006)

The rescape looks like it will grow in nicely.  Is it hard to aquascape that tank? I have a 38g with the same light fixture, but its not setup yet. I've been toying with the idea of getting a 40 breeder instead.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

it is pretty hard to scape it as it is so tall.. if it weren't so tall, i think it would look better. if i could go back in time, i definately would have chosen a 40 breeder.

as far as the HC goes, as of today, it's almost totally gone. mike, when you can get some to me, i would love to maybe buy about a 5x5 piece. :icon_frow


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

unfortunately, the tank is a bit cloudy... 
so the rest of my plants came in. HM, glosso, and some pennywort. the HM and glosso don't look so hot, but i think they will recover. i've seen a lot worse. once the corkscrew vals and pennywort fill in, i think that side will look a lot better. HC will come this week i hope. if i have success with the HC, i will pull the glosso. if i have success with the glosso and not the HC, i will pull the HC. if i have success with both? ha.. i'm sure you can guess which one i'll keep.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Nice, I want to see an update of the HC at least once a week!! You'll notice then how fast it grows w/Amazonia. Get that powerhead out of there!lol.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well.. a few things are just now starting to melt. i'm not sure why. it's rather confusing. i remember what i had before i tore the tank down and i remember what it looked like. if i'm not mistaken, it was clado. what i see now looks like what happened at the very start of the outbreak. maybe someone with better knowledge can tell. what i'm HOPING that it is, is that so many plants are melting that it's beginning to cover some of the other plants. the zosterfolia is what has melted the most.

here it is: 









and here is the blyxa with this "stuff" covering parts of it. it's covering some stems of other plants as well:










some of the glosso has either floated up, has melted, or has floated up because of the cory. i'm glad i'm getting rid of him and i've found him a good home.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

I'm not sure what the hell that is, but I've had that melt off happen to me as well but come back later...I hope it isn't CLADO, b/c that is bad news...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

*ok so i have no life and all i do is post photos of my tank*

:icon_redf 

*Almost 2 week update*









HC to come tomorrow (i think).
the glosso and HM are greener in person. not sure why it's looking so yellow in the photo.

for those that care: i don't think what was all over the plants was clado. i'm almost positive that what was happening is that so many plants were melting at once that the sludge was covering a few of nearby plants. phew! :icon_roll


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

What is the status?


----------



## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i guess it would be close to a months update??

here goes absolutely nothing... 
not sure why the photo looks so blue and dark. :icon_frow 










-edit-

looks a little better after a little photoshop.


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## Burks (May 21, 2006)

Wow. Amazing progress in one month.

I love it.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

just thought i'd post some params.

i haven't dosed at all this week due to the small thread algae problem i've been having. the only thing i have put in my tank had been 20ml of excel daily. talk about overdose huh?

nothing seems to be effected yet. not even the thread algae. 

here are the params:
pH @ 6.4
kh @ 9 degrees
PO4 @ 1ppm
N @ 5ppm

remember, this is all low since i have not dosed.

to alter dosing, i have now decided to dose:
1/8tsp KNO3 x 3
1/16tsp K x 3
1/8tsp PO4 x 3

3ml fluorish x 3
1ml iron x 3

20ml excel x 6 (hopefully i'll go back down to just 10 or 15)


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

looking good! Much improved...


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## Storm_Rider (Sep 30, 2006)

looking b-e-a-utiful. what a lucky betta


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

so what is the status? Haven't posted anything for a while now, so you know I'm dying to see it!!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

status? yuck! i'm happy with this tank, yet i'm so bored with it. after a trim last week, here it is. sorry for all the bubbles as i just did a H20 change.










the blyxa, i have NO problem cultivating. i want to give HC another try! mike, send some over!! :hihi:


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

no problem...check your email! Wow, that tank is looking amazing...I love the background, but your right the foreground does need something!! That Blyxa is crazy!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

Storm_Rider said:


> looking b-e-a-utiful. what a lucky betta


yes, that betta is far better off than 95% of other bettas out there don't ya think?

there's actually a funny story behind him. i got the betta when i bought two females for my sister's little 2.5 gallon. after a few days, we noticed the blue one chasing and nipping on the pink one. as i looked more and more, i noticed the fins were a little longer on the blue one than on the pink. so, i thought to myself that this one must be a VERY immature male. well, it was. he was so small when i purchased him that he looked like a female. today, he is as obvious as a male betta can get.


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## Bill Brasky (Jul 2, 2007)

looks really nice! my 38 gallon is jealous


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

This is looking really nice, and I know you can't wait for that HC!! LOL...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

the current look of the tank. man this thing has gone through some crap. it's getting somewhere though. much lower light, still co2 injected. only dosing PO4 and Excel. ~1ml of trace whenever i think about it.

not bad photo quality if i do say so myself.  probably the best i've done.









2 aponogeton sp.
pennywort
moneywort
ludwigia repens
HC


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Ok, so in 4 days it will have been two weeks since you last posted...what is going on here? Give me an update.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well, i happened to take a photo of the tank tonight and it just so happened my laptop has finally wacked out. it's been giving me hell and now the SOB won't even turn on. time for a new one! i'll be updating as soon as i can get another computer. for now, it will be borrowing the rents and school's comupters.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> well, i happened to take a photo of the tank tonight and it just so happened my laptop has finally wacked out. it's been giving me hell and now the SOB won't even turn on. time for a new one! i'll be updating as soon as i can get another computer. for now, it will be borrowing the rents and school's comupters.


I love it whenever you have technological failures...it makes your excuses so much more believable. lol! Yes, I certainly think you need a new computer. Hell I just bought mine and already I want to buy a new one!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

so i got my laptop back up and running somehow. it wouldn't even turn on and then i suddenly got the urge to try again and it worked. hmph. i'm still going to get a new one regardless. anyhow..

i took this a couple of days ago. i'll fill it in more soon, no worries. i'm just taking my time with this thing.










one new addition however, is the rocks on the right side.

enjoy!


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## Tdon1md (Jun 3, 2007)

So what happened to all of that beautiful Blyxa you had in there? I'm looking for some now. I need something in the left to cover up my filter pick up and was thinking Blyxa would be a perfect choice. What did you do with all of yours?
________
Glass weed pipe


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

If you don't get a foreground in there soon I'm going to come over there and kick your ass...


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

Marsilea is going in the mail tomorrow lol.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

haha. yep.

the blyxa was torn out when i was having algae issues wirh my tank. thankfully, all that has been resolved except for a small amount of GSA which i have never, as long as i have had planted tanks, ever been able to resolve. no matter how much PO4 i dose, it is always around.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> haha. yep.
> 
> the blyxa was torn out when i was having algae issues wirh my tank. thankfully, all that has been resolved except for a small amount of GSA which i have never, as long as i have had planted tanks, ever been able to resolve. no matter how much PO4 i dose, it is always around.


You better get your but on the ball and get some photos posted quick. You don't know how badly I'm suffering...I need some updates quick!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well Mr... here you go. i added some pieces of wood to the tank. i have some Taiwan moss coming in a few days to put on the wood. i buried one of the rocks on the left side deeper. i changed up the outflow of the filter to on the side of the tank like the ada pipes and moved the diffuser to the left. it blows across the tank and really diffuses the CO2 well. the reason i could never put the outflow on the side is because i had originally cut the hose a little short and yesterday i found a little longer piece to be able to do it. :bounce:


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Finally, well it certainly seems to be coming together slowly but surely. I'm glad to see these changes and the driftwood certainly adds something to the entire tank that's for sure...moss would absolutely improve things dramatically if you have enough. You need more plants and I don't know what you are doing with no foreground. I'd also recommend planting something, anything to cover that outflow tube in the back right corner. I love those Rasboras!!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

styxx said:


> You need more plants and I don't know what you are doing with no foreground. I'd also recommend planting something, anything to cover that outflow tube in the back right corner.


more plants are slowly being added. i tolddddddd you it was going to be a slow process with this tank. no rushing! that's how i always tend to screw up!

foreground should be here today. hopefully it survived a really long mail trip. i'll post pics if i plant!

i'm going to put something in front of the tube, just give it time. i'm sure if it were clear, it wouldn't matter riiiiiiiiiiiight?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> more plants are slowly being added. i tolddddddd you it was going to be a slow process with this tank. no rushing! that's how i always tend to screw up!
> 
> foreground should be here today. hopefully it survived a really long mail trip. i'll post pics if i plant!
> 
> i'm going to put something in front of the tube, just give it time. i'm sure if it were clear, it wouldn't matter riiiiiiiiiiiight?


I see...well I'm certainly going to interested in seeing how the foreground comes along and yes, if the outflow was clear it wouldn't matter a bit!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i picked up some DHG today that i think was previously submersed. there were some runners that had been growing submerged so hopefully it wont give me too hard of a time.
i put it in the mid-ground area of the tank. i still plan on putting in a different foreground. it'll happen. my one stem of l. repens is doing surprisingly well so i'm sure after i snip it i will eventually have a nice place for that.
here are some photos:

*Whole tank*









*Left side*









*Middle*









*Right Side*


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

I can't wait to see this tank a month from now and see what kind of results you'll have with that hairgrass...of course I'm partial to the Giant variety but its a really cool plant in either variety...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

the last time i had hairgrass, i had pretty good luck. the only problem i had with it was a small amount of bba. but believe me, that was then, this is now, i can definitely take care of that if it ever shows up. shouldn't in this tank though. lots of co2 and excel. i have some moss coming for the driftwood too.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Well thank the Gods that you got some moss...that driftwood would look awesome with it.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well... here it is, moss and marsilea added.
i had to use my girlfriend's camera since my batteries are dead. you can definitely tell the difference in the quality. lol.
i tried to get the white balance as close to my other photos as possible.










i also just realized it's hard to see the moss. i guess there is just so much of the same color green that it's hard to see.

edit
i also just realized that i think the driftwood really finished the scape off. the rocks are directing one way and the driftwood piece on the right is directing the opposite and really balances it all out. just thought i would add.


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## esarkipato (Jul 19, 2005)

I can't wait to see the foreground grow in!!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

the marsilea is filling in great Ernie! all old leaves are dying and new ones sprouting up every day. i think if you compare you can tell. 
the hairgrass is also filling in well although it is a little slower. i bothered the hairgrass tonight when i pulled up my huge aponogeton. it was 2 feet long. i wish i would've taken a picture.
i've receieved another couple of specie and the second photo shows the placement. btw, the arcuata is BEHIND the monneri. 
the little stem of L. repens is growing. won't be too long before i'll have to cut and replant!


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## skabooya (Apr 15, 2005)

Hey! where did it go? lol


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Is it me or is that Anubias Nana, simply gigantic? I love it!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

so you like how it's filling in mike? i'm pretty excited. only i get this crap that settles on my leaves. it looks like brown dust. not an algae, believe me. but like a make up powder that girls use. i don't know, i'll try to post a pic of it.

oh, and btw - that nasty stringy brown doo doo stuff that i had a problem with came back whenever i added the marsilea and hairgrass. it got kinda bad and then i removed as much of it as possible and then put some of the forbidden "algae killer liquid stuff" that we planted tankers are never suppose to use. but seriously though, it works. i don't use the recommended dosage, but half and only once, does the trick. whatever that crap is, doesn't like it at all. 
i don't see how it can come around ONLY when i add new plants. and it's regardless of where i get them from too. but what i was going to say is that i add roughly 15ml of excel a day to my tank. i am consistently getting a film on the top of my water, a THICK film and i think it's from the excel. i'm going to stop dosing the excel or so much that is, and see how things turn out. if i get some algae, it's back to drowning the tank in excel!!


----------



## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> so you like how it's filling in mike? i'm pretty excited. only i get this crap that settles on my leaves. it looks like brown dust. not an algae, believe me. but like a make up powder that girls use. i don't know, i'll try to post a pic of it.
> 
> oh, and btw - that nasty stringy brown doo doo stuff that i had a problem with came back whenever i added the marsilea and hairgrass. it got kinda bad and then i removed as much of it as possible and then put some of the forbidden "algae killer liquid stuff" that we planted tankers are never suppose to use. but seriously though, it works. i don't use the recommended dosage, but half and only once, does the trick. whatever that crap is, doesn't like it at all.
> i don't see how it can come around ONLY when i add new plants. and it's regardless of where i get them from too. but what i was going to say is that i add roughly 15ml of excel a day to my tank. i am consistently getting a film on the top of my water, a THICK film and i think it's from the excel. i'm going to stop dosing the excel or so much that is, and see how things turn out. if i get some algae, it's back to drowning the tank in excel!!


yeah, that's brown diatom algae (the dust like stuff)...ottos go *crazy* for it...wow...that's a lot of Excel. No wonder you buy it in Liters! But the film is from a lack of surface agitation. You need to raise the output to agitate the surface. And a little agitation will prevent that film from forming (its from the dust in the air, not from anything in the tank) which occurs only on stagnant water...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

what is your status??


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

styxx said:


> what is your status??


taken, not married








lol. the tank is a disaster right now as i guess i performed too large of WC while cleaning the snot out and removing a lot of plants and now a lot of the pennywort has melted. what started the tank is now being detroyed.:icon_redf


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

lol... well so far so good! Of course I've never used pennywort so I'm not that familiar with it...I've decided to buy myself either a Vortex Freedom Filter or an Spectrapure RO/DI unit. What do you think about that? I'm leaning towards to the Vortex DE filter...because I don't have any fish right now that really needs RO H2O...but possibly in the future...any thoughts?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

the words i want to use to describe what has been going on with my tank and the way that it currently looks, i would be banned for using. so all i'm going to say is that i am disgusted with the tank.
the water is discolored from stirring up the substrate when pulling out all of the pennywort last week. 
anyone want to volunteer to donate background plants?? lol.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i'll also add that this is what i was dealing with:
now it's just a matter of time before things get back to normal.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

that s*** is gross...


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

What's the status with this? Any improvement??


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

ok, ok. i know i need some purigen. i don't know why but as long as this tank has been set up, if i BARELY disturb the substrate, the water becomes brown again. purigen is the only thing to rid it but i currently don't have any in the filter.










i have finally gotten rid of the goo. for some reason, the brown stringy stuff still hasn't gone away. every other day or so, i manually remove as much as i can. the last water change, i removed a good amount but noticed some today. so i grabbed the toothbrush again and took out as much as i could and spot treated with some excel (not like it does any good on this stuff. i've tried so many times) and let sit for about 10 mins. we'll see how well it stays away! i should have some amanos coming this week and maybe, just maybe they'll eat it!

on a positive note, the taiwan moss is growing very well!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

no real change other than i did a WC today and trimmed the hairgrass in order to stimulate growth. also moved the return to the opposite side of the tank in order to increase circulation. i think it may help with the film on top of the water that i get sometimes.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

much improved...


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

It's getting there! 

Is that one lone white cloud I spy?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

JenThePlantGeek said:


> It's getting there!
> 
> Is that one lone white cloud I spy?


yes Jen, slowly but surely it's becoming algae free. :icon_frow i'm just taking my time before upgrading to 2x70w MH and cramming the rear with cyperus helferi. that is my one white cloud that survived all the horrors. by horrors i mean all times i had to uproot algae and goo infested plants that then disturbed the sustrate releasing substantial amounts of ammonia into the water column. having to change the water so often as a result stressed all of my other fish except for that poor little guy.:icon_frow


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

I still have a few cloud juvies (4 +3 fry) left if you're interested for the price of shipping. I don't have any heat packs but I guess there are still a few weeks left before its really too cold to ship.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

today i received some amano shrimp from a member here. they're tiny tiny.










unfortunately, the crap i was dealing with which i thought i was doing a good job of getting rid of it is now creeping back. no one including myself has ever been able to figure out what this is. i figured i post some more photos since i have a few macro lenses and am able to take better photos of it.


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

Amano's should eat that crap. I don't have time to read your entire thread so could you fill me in please. How much light do you have and what is the photoperiod? Are you dosing ferts?


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## JustOneMore21 (May 23, 2006)

I know this won't help you, but I've had algae like this before and nobody could ID it for me either. I had some people guess, but the pictures of those algaes looked nothing like this one. It was in my 55g planted tank a couple years ago. After I changed the substrate and overhauled the tank, it went away mysteriously (or rather didn't grow back). Maybe the additional plants helped....who knows.

I wish you luck getting rid of it.  Hopefully the Amanos will have a go at it.

The tank looks really good, even without the background plants. I like the driftwood with the moss on it.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

Overfloater said:


> Amano's should eat that crap. I don't have time to read your entire thread so could you fill me in please. How much light do you have and what is the photoperiod? Are you dosing ferts?


should is the key word. light is 96w 8 hours a day. pressurized CO2 cranked up like hell. i dose 1/16 tsp K, 1/4 tsp PO4 (i know this seems like a lot but i have to in order to keep the GSA away), and 1/8 tsp KNO3 all @ 3x a week and i dose about 3ml traces on WC days which is every Monday. i obviously don't have many plants in the tank so this is why i have altered the EI method. i am lacking plants due to funds. what's sad is that if i had to tell a newbie one important thing, it would be that you better have enough cash flow to maintain this hobby. HA!



JustOneMore21 said:


> I know this won't help you, but I've had algae like this before and nobody could ID it for me either. I had some people guess, but the pictures of those algaes looked nothing like this one. It was in my 55g planted tank a couple years ago. After I changed the substrate and overhauled the tank, it went away mysteriously (or rather didn't grow back). Maybe the additional plants helped....who knows.
> 
> I wish you luck getting rid of it.  Hopefully the Amanos will have a go at it.
> 
> The tank looks really good, even without the background plants. I like the driftwood with the moss on it.


thanks. i really hope they can get rid of it for me too. no matter how many times i manually remove it and do WCs it always comes back. partly my reason for not adding background plants as if they were to get covered i wouldn't be able to clean them and would have to toss them which is a waste of money!


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

I would cut your photoperiod back to 5-6 hours and stop dosing ferts. You don't need them. In my experience, GSA is caused by excessive light, not a shortage of P.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i think you may be confused with GDA (dust) where as i tend to have a problem with (GSA) (spot) which is in fact subject to low PO4; or at least that's what many sources have told me. http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/
in regards to the ferts, when i first changed the lighting from 2x96w down to 96w i stopped dosing ferts since i had such an algae issue. i actually only recently started dosing ferts; last week as a matter of fact is when i started. i have always had to dose PO4 though in order to keep the GSA alway as i stated before.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

I think we need to take up a collection and send this man some PLANTS...that should remedy this entire situation...well...at least it always has for me...algae problems? Add *a lot* more plants...turn up co2...BAM! Algae gone.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

oh.. by the way guys... i checked my timer tonight because i was going to reduce the photo period, and i was already running it for only SIX hours. so i turned it down to 5. this algae is getting worse by the day and i can't seem to do anything to get rid of it. not only that but another amano went down today.
i also seem to have the surface film issue going on as well go figure that something else has to be wrong!


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## Overfloater (Jan 12, 2004)

danepatrick said:


> i think you may be confused with GDA (dust) where as i tend to have a problem with (GSA) (spot) which is in fact subject to low PO4; or at least that's what many sources have told me. http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/
> in regards to the ferts, when i first changed the lighting from 2x96w down to 96w i stopped dosing ferts since i had such an algae issue. i actually only recently started dosing ferts; last week as a matter of fact is when i started. i have always had to dose PO4 though in order to keep the GSA alway as i stated before.


I have read a lot of crazy stuff on the internet... everyone has their own opinions, even myself  I am telling you what my experience has taught me over the years. Eliminate your dosing and the algae should come under control. 

As Styxx mentioned, you definitely could use more plants. Especailly stems. Everything you have now is slow growing. Minimal slow growing plants and a short photperiod, I would not dose my tank unless I saw a deficiency (unlikely).


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

Overfloater said:


> I have read a lot of crazy stuff on the internet... everyone has their own opinions, even myself  I am telling you what my experience has taught me over the years. Eliminate your dosing and the algae should come under control.
> 
> As Styxx mentioned, you definitely could use more plants. Especailly stems. Everything you have now is slow growing. Minimal slow growing plants and a short photperiod, I would not dose my tank unless I saw a deficiency (unlikely).


i understand.  my experience with dosing PO4 is going to be different though as water in different areas have concentrations of it in the tap. not only have i had to dose PO4 if nothing else, my old friend has always had the same problem and he lives here in the city too. i'm not sure what it is about our water, but even with a short photo period and very low light, the GSA still appeared in our tanks. after slowly increasy the PO4 until it stopped showing up, well you guessed it.. it stopped. 
i should have some plants coming in by next week i suppose. until then, i only have the lights running for 5 hours and will not be dosing anything. once i get some plants in there, i plan on slowly increasing K and traces. then once i see some growth, i will slowly up the levels of N and P. does this sound like a nice plan??


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

I'm looking forward to seeing these new plants and the changes taking place with this project...


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

ha. it's funny how you're the only one other than myself! lol.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

danepatrick said:


> ha. it's funny how you're the only one other than myself! lol.


Not necessarily...there are a lot of "lurkers" out there who watch threads and don't comment...I know, I'm one of them! lol! People just don't always have the time to contribute in a substantially meaningful way, like they might otherwise want to...look at how many people have viewed your thread compared to those that have posted and where the statistics show who has posted the most (not including myself)...that should tell you something.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

oh i was just messing!!! mainly pointing out the fact that you're the only loser other than myself that comments about this thing! lol.


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## JenThePlantGeek (Mar 27, 2006)

(I'm one of the lurkers)


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

JenThePlantGeek said:


> (I'm one of the lurkers)


lol! I knew thee were some out there! So see Dane I'm not the only one, and where there's Jen there are others!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

a couple of overdue posts. not much change, but i should be getting some plants tomorrow and will definitely post photos afterwards.

out of the 35 cherries i ordered, i lost two that were extremely tiny to my lone white cloud tetra. i guess he got kinda defensive of the tank? 

new cherries. 









12-11-07 - first night of putting Purigen in filter









12-12-07 - second day with Purigen in filter









it looks a little clearer.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

it about time! Wow that moss is really growing well and look at that hairgrass!! nice...crank up that CO2 it doesn't look like anything is coming out!


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

it's nice to see some marsilea with hairgrass background... looks great.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

thanks! i will try to post a photo or two of the tank since i've planted some more plants. i was trying to wait until most of them started standing vertically again as some plants are all curled up from shipping after first planting them. the plants weren't in the very best condition as it took all 3 days of the priority mail service for them to get here. i planted what i could and planted some even though i had my doubts. planting these definately took away from my the little "scape" i had. but that is alright.  i'm glad to finally have an abundance of plants in my tank and something to start sucking up nutrients.

for some reason the cherries i received are dropping like flies. i thought it was my lone white cloud tetra that was eating them but i found two more dead after removing the tetra the day before. no ammonia, no nitrite. i don't understand. i had the same issues with the amanos i received not too long ago as well.


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## tropicalfish (Mar 29, 2007)

Are there any copper sources in the water?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*weird...same problem...different day...*



danepatrick said:


> thanks! i will try to post a photo or two of the tank since i've planted some more plants. i was trying to wait until most of them started standing vertically again as some plants are all curled up from shipping after first planting them. the plants weren't in the very best condition as it took all 3 days of the priority mail service for them to get here. i planted what i could and planted some even though i had my doubts. planting these definately took away from my the little "scape" i had. but that is alright.  i'm glad to finally have an abundance of plants in my tank and something to start sucking up nutrients.
> 
> for some reason the cherries i received are dropping like flies. i thought it was my lone white cloud tetra that was eating them but i found two more dead after removing the tetra the day before. no ammonia, no nitrite. i don't understand. i had the same issues with the amanos i received not too long ago as well.


Bagdahd attacks again! Fortunately you have like 30 of them so it shouldn't be that much of a problem right, unless they'[re ALL dying. The only advice I would give you is to be very cautious when doing water changes; I've noticed shrimp deaths due to this factor alone and I can only attribute it to the inefficiency of dechlorinators or temperature fluctuations...who knows?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

tropicalfish said:


> Are there any copper sources in the water?


definately not! it's mind boggling!


styxx said:


> Bagdahd attacks again! Fortunately you have like 30 of them so it shouldn't be that much of a problem right, unless they'[re ALL dying. The only advice I would give you is to be very cautious when doing water changes; I've noticed shrimp deaths due to this factor alone and I can only attribute it to the inefficiency of dechlorinators or temperature fluctuations...who knows?


you and your bagdahd! you better stay away or i'll blow you up! :icon_roll 
i'm not sure why they've gone down. and they pretty much are ALL going down. :icon_cry: i haven't done a water change since they've been in the tank.


*KABOOM!*


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

i would think the purigen would take any unwanted stuff out of the water.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

bsmith782 said:


> i would think the purigen would take any unwanted stuff out of the water.


yea yea, no doubt. no offense, but what's are you referring to that was stated?


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

*huh?*



danepatrick said:


> yea yea, no doubt. no offense, but what's are you referring to that was stated?


what? You must be drunk again...I know I didn't understand your question to them so they must not either...or am I the one drunk?


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

nope. i sure wasn't drunk. lol. you may be though. anyway.
i did a WC today to remove some more of the crap that i noticed starting to come back. still can't figure it out.
after the WC today i added 2.5ml of flourish and 1/16tsp of K. sorta my plans when i get my ADA ferts. will add 2.5ml of flourish (basicly step 1) and 1 squirt of Brighty K every other day to start. then bump up as needed.

here are a couple of really crappy pictures:


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

well, i made a really bold move and added another 96w to the tank. :icon_eek: :icon_eek: :icon_eek: kind of a bold move when i still have this sickening little algae attacking me every week. unfortunately, this second bulb is 50/50 so i will be ordering another 6,700k this week. (like i have the money for this. :icon_roll )
on a positive note, i got my magic water in today.  maybe it'll "magically" cure my tank. muahaha.
another set of crappy pictures:

the riccia is starting to pass through










the nasty blue reflection. ewww.










for now, i'm going to experiment with:
1 squirt Brighty K every other day
2.5ml per week following water change

should i notice some GSA, i will start adding the Brighty Green Special Lights - 1 squirt every other day. until then, traces and K will be used to stimulate growth. (do i sound smart? HA!)


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

I'm going to want an update sometime after Christmas...maybe you can comment on how the ADA ferts are treating you!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

*Lots of pics!*

the riccia is growing really well. not that it's a hard plant to grow or anything. :icon_roll 









i'm starting to get a little diatom algae on the marsilea and DH.


















great growth on the HM. roots starting to shoot down.









making its way to the substrate.









pride rock? (is that what it was called?) great growth on Taiwan moss.









not sure what kind of moss this is.









is this flame moss? doesn't look thick enough to me.









starting to color up.


















rotala starting to straighten and color up.









monnieri pearling.









from the right side. not the best i've seen.









full tank.









well, the ADA ferts seem to be working their magic as the growth is starting to take off. the only problem(s) i've ran into since, is the small amount of diatom algae on the marsilea and DH. i still keep finding small amounts of that stupid kind of algae i can't completely get rid of. you can probably see some of it on the DH.  other than that, everything seems to be going ok. the addition of the extra 96w is making the plants pearl in the evenings. i've also upped the lighting to about 7 hours from 5. its really shot up the growth on the plants. as you can see the rotala that wasn't in the best condition is now starting to stand taller and color up. so is the sunset hygro.
as far as dosing i add 2.5ml 1x a week after water changes along with 1 squirt of Brighty K every other day. in the next week or two, i will add in the addition of 1 squirt of Brighty Green Special Lights every other day.

of course comments and criticism is welcome.


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

two words: Magic Water.


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## BiscuitSlayer (Apr 1, 2005)

danepatrick - I just read through your thread, and I have to say your tank goes through a lot. Just as one of your setups is starting to take off and fill in there is a gap in your posts and come to find out that you blew away the scape and started over with something completely different...

Repeat cycle. LOL

In any event, I have liked all of the different setups that you have had. I really liked the setup that you had with the petrified wood as the hardscape.

I am very interested in seeing your current setup grow out, so DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING YET!


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

biscuit - yea.. this thing has definitely been through some crap. literally. this layout has by far been my favorite, and most successful despite the stupid algae i have come back every now and then. i don't even know that i would call it algae anymore. it's more like a film that is filled with mulm.

unfortunately, i still don't have any background plants. i've been busy with work and school starting up and i haven't had the money or time to get some stems. the rotala on the right has still yet to turn vertical. it's growing roots but also seems to be staying dorment. who knows. judge for yourself.

here's a long overdue updated photo:


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

I think its looking pretty bangin' now dane and its only going to get better as it fills in.


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## danepatrick (Jul 17, 2006)

i love the word choice. :icon_cool 

i think it would look 10x more amazing with background plants gone wild! lol.
i'll get my hand on some soon!


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## styxx (Jul 2, 2003)

Ok, seriously...you need to do an update. I did mine, now its time for you to do yours...


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