# Picking fish & plants for hard water high ph



## GaFishman1181

Out of the tap my water has a ph of 8.2 and is very hard. I have found a few plants that could work well in hard water; most of them are some type of Cryptocoryne. I was wondering if anyone had suggestions or had a link to plants for hard water. I did a search and came up with no results. 

I am also having trouble finding fish that will not eat the plants but dont mind a high ph. so far i am going to get either 1 or 2 albino bristlenoses but beyond that i am not sure(my tank is 30 gallons 36" long). With my hard water and high ph i have thought about something from lake victoria but alot of those fish get to big and like to dig. i also have thought about tanganyika but i do not want shell dwellers and dont know what else i could get. 

Does anyone have any suggestions on fish that are hardier and can take hard high ph water? My malawi mbuna love my water but i think they would also love my plants.

i do not want to use chemicals to alter the ph and do not really want to use buffers. if i could find something to work with my water it will make things easier. and i am all about K.I.S.S.


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## fishstoregirl

I live in an area with hard water and a high Ph as well. My Ph is a bit lower, at around 8.0, but I have found that most plants and fish still do well. I don't use any buffers and I think stability is the key to making it work. Things I have discovered it is best to stay away from are all Hygro species of plants as well as most Amazonian fish, such as tetras, rams, etc. Angelfish that have been tank bred, preferably in your area or another area with similar water parameters, will still do great in hard water. There are several people around here that have bred them with great success using no buffers. 

For plants in my own tanks I currently have Anubias, Java Fern, Tiger Lotus, Willow Moss, Apogentons, Crypts, Java Moss, Sagittaria subulata (Dwarf Sag), Lysimachia nummularia (Creeping Jenny/Moneywort), Susswassertang (Round Pelia), Riccia, Blyxa Japonica, Vallisneria asiatica (Corkscrew Val), Hemianthus micranthemoides (HM/ Babytear), Brazilian Pennywort, and perhaps something I am forgetting. I have also had various swords as well as Elodia/Anacharis successfully in the past. All of these plants are currently doing very well and I have had most of them for somewhere between 1-3yrs. Two of my tanks do have DIY CO2 but not on the third tank, which I dose with Excel. 

As for fish, I have Kribensis and Zebra danios in one tank, Guppies, a Rainbow Gudgeon, Bumblebee Gobies, Otos, and albino Corydoras in the second, and female Bettas in the third. I have also sucessfully had in the past: an angelfish (did excellent until she got too big and I traded her), a redtailed blackshark (did well until it jumped out of my tank after about a year), an SAE, a flying fox, a hillstream loach, a clown pleco, and a skunk loach. Fish that did not do well include: Neon tetras, Cardinal tetras, Rummynose tetras, glow-light tetras, and German Blue Rams. Hope this helps you!


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## Wasserpest

Great reply Fishstoregirl.

Don't have much to add, just that regarding plants, adding CO2 makes things much better in high pH waters (not sure if you do).

WRT fish, many livebearers like hard water, and don't damage any plants.


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## GaFishman1181

fishstoregirl thank you very much for the plant suggestions. I will look into some of those. 

I dont have any rocks or wood in my tank and really just wanted alot of plants. Will i be able to plant java fern or do plants like that need to be tied to something?

wasserpest- i do not have co2 and really didnt want to get into that as of right now.

I guess i will figure out what plants i am getting and get that running before i pick my fish. 

anyone else have plant suggestions for hard water and high ph with low to moderate light requirements.


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## Axelrodi202

You also might want to try Bolbitis. My water is around 7.4, but leaves mineral deposits and Bolbitis does pretty good.


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## hydrophyte

there are many fantastic livebearers that you could try. look for stuff in families Poecilidae and Goodeidae. 

here's a really cool organization.

American Livebearers Association

i have some goodeids and also mollies that i collected (legally) in Mexico and i think that they are fascinating.


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## hydrophyte

i also put together a Web journal describing one of my trips to Mexico.

http://entomology.wisc.edu/~dbiggs/pesca/index.html


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## idontknow

I have same tank as you 30 gallon 36 inch long. My ph is 8.2 and also pretty hard. 

I run pressurized co2 med lighting and dose EI, I know you mentioned you didnt want to get into the co2 but in case you change your mind heres my list.

As far as plants go I keep anubias plants, and a variety of different swords plants as well as a couple crypts and Limno A. I also have grown Downoi, a few different hygros, pearl weed, marsilea m, water sprite, Val nana. I never had any luck with Rotalias. Kept rotting at the stems.
Be careful if picking out swords as a lot will outgrow the tank. I keep a Kleiner Bar sword that is the perfect size for that tank and is a great looking sword.

Fish I currently keep Tiger Barbs, a gold nugget pleco (still tiny) and a few clown loaches (also small) I have had Peacock and Black bar Endlers (took over my tank so gave them away) As well as Red cherry shrimp which got eaten by my tiger barbs.

The pleco and clowns will outgrow the 30 gallon but I am moving them over to my 125 when I get it setup this summer. I love the tiger barbs, great fish to watch and come in a few different colors.


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## jelisoner

my ph comes out of the tap at 8.0 real hard water. adding peat under the substrate will help ,and co2 will help also. ive kept everything just fine haven't had anything that haven't been able to keep alive. my hygro speices actually thrive very well if you do end up having problems you could always add partial ro water.


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## GaFishman1181

thanks for all the good suggestions on plants. i like the way anubias look and they also seem like good beginner plants. 

do i have this right that plants like the anubias can be planted in substrate if you leave part of the plant out of the ground??

Also is it better to do alot of different types of plants or a couple different types just a lot of them? (hope that made sense)

I didnt realize that tiger barbs were a good choice for my tank. those fish are cool and come in many different types. What are good numbers for tiger barbs in a 30g 36". Also can you mix different types? Any types you wouldn't recommend. (obviously the tin foil barb will get to big; but are there any others)

thanks again for your help


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## fishstoregirl

GaFishman1181 said:


> fishstoregirl thank you very much for the plant suggestions. I will look into some of those.
> 
> I dont have any rocks or wood in my tank and really just wanted alot of plants. Will i be able to plant java fern or do plants like that need to be tied to something?
> 
> wasserpest- i do not have co2 and really didnt want to get into that as of right now.
> 
> I guess i will figure out what plants i am getting and get that running before i pick my fish.
> 
> anyone else have plant suggestions for hard water and high ph with low to moderate light requirements.


Both Anubias and Java fern do well tied to rocks and driftwood or planted directly into the substrate. Just be sure to leave the rhizome out of the substrate (it looks like a horizontal stem or root that all of the roots come out of) or the entire plant will rot. I would strongly recommend using at least some driftwood in the tank as it can act as a natural water softener. Also, I was reluctant to use CO2 at first as well because I thought it would be an unneeded cost and labor intensive, but I am currently using DIY on two of my tanks and I love it. I do have one tank with no CO2 and it is heavily planted and doing well.

All you need is a basic bakers' or breadmachine yeast, sugar, water, a two liter bottle, airline tubing, a check valve if you want, and perhaps an airstone. Clean out the bottle, poke a hole in the cap large enough for the airline, poke it through and glue around it (I used epoxy, you could also use silicone or another strong waterproof glue), attach the checkvalve in the middle if you want one (I have about 6in of airline coming from the bottle, then checkline, then the rest of the airline so that I can detach the bottle easily without removing the cap), and feed the line into the tank. In one tank I have an airstone sitting inside the powerfilter near the impeller, in the other I have no airstone and the line is fed into the filter intake. There are also several other methods available. Next poor about 1.5 to 2 cups of sugar into the bottle. Then take about 1.5 to 2 teaspoons of yeast and add it to the bottle and a pinch of baking soda if you want (helps stabilize the Ph, but not necessary just helps it last longer). Then fill the bottle with lukewarm water to the point where it begins to narrow at the top, or roughly 3/4 full. Shake it up a little, and attach it to the tank! It should start producing gas within a day, and it should last 2-3 weeks or so. Just dump it out and start over!


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## GaFishman1181

wow, that sounds awsome. i have heard about DIY co2 but didnt know how they did it. I still do not want to use it right now. if i eventually find out i need it then i will read back on this post to see how to build one. THat is really cool though. I have also seen some awsome glass pieces that have colored water in them. guessin this is something to do with co2.

as far as fish go i am really diggin the tiger barb idea. i just did some research on them and figure 9-10 would be good for my tank. I would like to do 3 albino, 3 regular, and 3 green. Would this work?

also i have some bristlenoses from my malawi tanks. i was thinking about putting an albino bristlenose in my planted tank.

so far stock list is

3 green barb
3 reg. tiger barb
3 albino tiger barb
1 albino bristlenose plec

would this make my tank fully stocked or could i add more fish?


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## idontknow

Seeing how your tank is longer, the tiger barbs dont really need the height you could easily add more. The barbs you picked are good you could easily get away with 5 of each. Also they really enjoy a decent current of water. I would highly recommend a Koralia 1 powerhead to run across the length of the tank, PERFECT ammount of flow.


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## GaFishman1181

idontknow said:


> Seeing how your tank is longer, the tiger barbs dont really need the height you could easily add more. The barbs you picked are good you could easily get away with 5 of each. Also they really enjoy a decent current of water. I would highly recommend a Koralia 1 powerhead to run across the length of the tank, PERFECT ammount of flow.


does the koralia make any noise. this tank is in my bedroom and i am trying to keep it as silent as possible. If it doesnt make any noise than i would definitly be interested in putting one of those in my tank. 

I change what type of fish i want in my tank every day but tiger barbs are still in the top 3. If i do go for them i will take your advice and get 5 of each. 

thanks


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## speedie408

I've got very hard water in my area (well over 8.2pH) as well and I'm able to grow: L. Aromatica, Bocopa Caroliniana, pearl weed, Fissidens Fontanis, E. Tennellus, Ludwigia Repens, Anubia nanas, Cryptocoryne lutea, Stargrass, L. Inclinata Cuba, Ludwigia palustris, Ludwiga Repens, & Tiger Lotus'. Although, I do have pressurized CO2 which helped eliminate all my algae woes. 

Give the DIY CO2 concoctions a try and keep learning. If you're serious about the hobby, you'll end up going pressurized CO2 later on. 

As for fish, I currently have: German Blue Rams, Neon Tetras, Bloodfin Tetras, BN Plecos, H. Rasboras, Otos, Guppies, & Lamprologus Ocellatus

Hope that helps.


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## idontknow

GaFishman1181 said:


> does the koralia make any noise. this tank is in my bedroom and i am trying to keep it as silent as possible. If it doesnt make any noise than i would definitly be interested in putting one of those in my tank.
> 
> I change what type of fish i want in my tank every day but tiger barbs are still in the top 3. If i do go for them i will take your advice and get 5 of each.
> 
> thanks


Koralia is silent. My tank is in my bedroom and the only sound I hear is from my Rena XP3 which I actually like to hear the humming sound.


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