# Need 75 gal Lighting Suggestions



## m.lemay (Jul 28, 2002)

220 watts over 75 gals will give you about 2.9WPG which is real good. You can get a 4x55watt kit at AH supply This will get you the best reflectors in the hobby IMO at a price thats easy to swallow.

Marcel


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Cobra, I sorry to get confused so easily but what exactly is a canopied AGA 75 gallon tank, I got the 75 gallon tank part but I'm unfamiliar with the AGA canopy. Do you have pics or a link?


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## cobra (Feb 4, 2005)

Thanks for the Replies!

If you take a look at AGA's website products you can view the canopies there. The reason I mentioned this tank has a canopy is because I have noticed that certain type(s) of fixtures supposedly won't fit with this type of arrangement. What _I don't know about all this stuff can fill many books!_. Hence, the reason to visiting plantedtank.net. Additionally, can anybody school me abit on T5 lighting and the benefits of using this type of bulb? Can anyone recommend any online stores?

Thank You,

Greg


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

Lighting is a big "debate" issue. The AGA (Aquatic Gardeners Association) has debated this issue for a long time.

Having exeprience with both the AGA 65G and the 90G (under planning now), I would recomend an AGA 2x55W CF fixture and a Coralife 2x96W CF fixture. This will give you a total of approx 4 Watts / G which would be perfect with the understanding that you will be going to install CO2.

4 Watts / Gallon for the 75G AGA tank is perfect because:

1. The tank is a high one, and light intensity will drop. Esspecially if you go with "carpet" style plants (glosso, riccia, etc).

2. It allows you growth. You may start with a few plants, but you WILL be adding. Trust me on this one. I always believe in having some wiggle room, and its better to buy equipment once, rather than twice.

3. The coralife fixture as sepearte switches for each 96 watt CF, so if you do not have the CO2 in place, you can shut one light bank off, and that will bring you to 2.7 W / gallon, which is good for a tank like the 75G until the CO2 shows up.

I hope this helps.

Nick


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Jackfrost said:


> 4 Watts / Gallon for the 75G AGA tank is perfect because:
> 
> 1. The tank is a high one, and light intensity will drop. Esspecially if you go with "carpet" style plants (glosso, riccia, etc).
> 
> ...


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## badmatt (Nov 19, 2003)

2x54 watt T5 HO's will be all you need and uses less energy than a 4x55 watt kit and put out more light, ALOT more its liek having 2 110 watt VHO's over your tank, but uses alot less energy. lowerign electric bills. long bulbs life too T5HO bulbs can last upto 2 years before needing replacement.


www.happyreefing.com

they sell full retro fit kits balast, waterproof endcaps, wirering T5 SPECIFIC reflectors, and screws 
a 2 lamp system runs about 115 bucks with out bulbs.


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## BOTIA (Dec 23, 2003)

*T5*

Hi I have been using T5 for for awhile now. I have to say it is very efficient at growing plants. I have red loving plants doing very well and I using inert pool filter sand substrate.
The options for T5 are limited but can economical. The ge starcoat 54 watt HO 65k bulbs are 46.5 inches long and put out 4700 lumens after burn in a, and cost about 10.00 each. They have 20000hour lifespan with drop off at 10000 hours. 
If you were only using T5 bulbs I would use two fulham workhorse 5's to run 4 54 watt tubes for 216 watts at 18800 lumens which is some serious light.
By using two ballast on seperate timers you could stagger the lights on time to help alleviate your fish from freaked when the lights come on.
I would also get the parabolic 3 inch reflectors at 20$$ ea for each bulb from sunlight supply.
If the hood is fully enclosed I would also ad computer case fan to help with heat build up.
Here is some T5 tech info for you.
Regards Botia






















cobra said:


> Thanks for the Replies!
> 
> If you take a look at AGA's website products you can view the canopies there. The reason I mentioned this tank has a canopy is because I have noticed that certain type(s) of fixtures supposedly won't fit with this type of arrangement. What _I don't know about all this stuff can fill many books!_. Hence, the reason to visiting plantedtank.net. Additionally, can anybody school me abit on T5 lighting and the benefits of using this type of bulb? Can anyone recommend any online stores?
> 
> ...


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

My tanks 30 inches tall and I have 4.25 wpg, I have always had some problems with low plants that require high light. I don't think it's a huge issue but I think it does help to have a little extra in a deep tank.

Oh, I still need some better directions on finding these AGA tank set ups. The only AGA I know is the Aquatic Gardeners Association and I couldn't find anything, do you have to be a member?


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## BOTIA (Dec 23, 2003)

*happyreefing?*

I just check out that site . If you are a handy person you could source the parts cheaper BUT they have all the bases covered and are using fulham ballasts which are very energy efficient so it looks like a good deal to me.
Botia


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## glass-gardens.com (Apr 14, 2004)

I use 6 - 40 watt NO tubes over my 75, more than sufficient and a substantially cheaper alternative to CFs. They also fit nicely inside the canopy, which was custom built.


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

Raul-7 said:


> Jackfrost said:
> 
> 
> > 4 Watts / Gallon for the 75G AGA tank is perfect because:
> ...


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Jackfrost said:


> I beg to disagree.
> 
> Raul-7, I would also like you to point to a specific article that shows some data to back up what you just said, because that statement you made, and so many others on this forum like to repeat around :icon_roll, violates several laws of physics. Specifically those laws regarding Maxwell's light equations for non isotropic permiability (gamma not equal to zero for a Gaussian beam characterisation).
> 
> Many people make these statements but fail to back up what they say around here with actual data or facts. That is very misleading to other newer members.


I am not making this up, and I have a topic to back up my findings. http://www.thekrib.com/Lights/depth.html, read the second post by Wright Huntley.


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## Canoe2Can (Oct 31, 2004)

Light intensity simply has to drop off as the tank gets deeper. The farther from the bulb, the more the light spreads out, hence it is less intense. That being said, the water itself will not cause much of a drop off in intensity. Obviously water, even very clear water, reduces the amount of light that passes through it, otherwise the oceans would not be pitch black at 600 meters. But in a 24 inch tank, that's not going to figure in nearly as much as just the distance from the bulbs.

As for the original post, I would think that either an AH Supply kit (4 by 55) or a half dozen T-8 bulbs would work out well. Keep in mind this is supposed to be a "moderately planted" tank, so I would see no good reason to blast it with 4 wpg, unless you want glosso or something. And a 75 gallon really isn't very deep, only 20 inches. 

It seems some people use AGA to refer to the Aquatic Gardener's Association, and others to refer to All-Glass Aquarium.


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## cobra (Feb 4, 2005)

Thanks,

For all the posts! For someone (me) who has alot of disdain for over-usage of acronyms I should have clarified. All Glass Aquariums (AGA), is what I should have spelled out. 

Currently, I am overseas emailing these posts from some serious "indian country". Point being, that as much as I would like to tinker with some DIY lighting, it's not really an option. My wife will be the principle engineer for the time being as far as this project is concerned.

Can anybody suggest an already made T5 light fixture (that could go underneath a canopy fixture)?

Thanks in Advance,
Greg


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

I am aware of Huntley's position, and thank you for posting the link for others !, but his conclusions do not agree with physics.

Probably because no one challenged the light meter (!).

I will explain.

You see, most light meters, only measure Lux within the visible spectrum.

A light wave, is typically modeled as a Gaussian Beam equation, with a specified spectral density. That spectral density is not "limited". 

You see, the values that Huntley, and others, posted are probably correct in establishing the degradation of light intensity as a function of depth, but this only holds true for the visible spectrum of light that Huntley's, and others meters where designed for. In other words, he wasn't looking at the whole picture !

You see plants absorb light over a much larger spectrum, not that which is limited to the human eye and the meter. Most commercial light meters only measure within the visible spectrum.

I challenge one to repeat the experiment Huntley and others did with a laboratory grade spectral photometer, not a photography or office/classroom grade photometer, and one would see that the physics are correct. That indeed, even though the visible spectrum may not decrease as dramatically with depth, the "plant" absorption spectrum does.

I do not doubt that Huntley and the others in the article from 1995 proved the importance of good reflectors and proper light position geometry, but that only addresses "efficiencies" for the lamps and fixtures.

That is why other aquatic gardeners are discovering that the high intensity lighting coupled with high nutrient dosing (Tom Barr's method) are producing exceptional results. Dosing alone will not get photosynthesis going.


Nick


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah, there are some very nice T5 premade which will work great. Sunlight Supply is the manufactorer of one called the Tek light. Its new and comes in 4 bulb, 6 bulb or 8 bulb configurations for four foot tanks with each bulb having its own top of the line parabolic reflector. (4x 54 watts) Very nice rig for around $265.00 shipping included from Reefgeek.com. If you go back a few pages you can find a thread about these lights with pictures if the pictures are still active on the server here. They are very sweet fixtures and look good without a canopy, though some prefer to wire in the same components DIY in a canopy with fans to spread the reflectors out a bit (thus the light as well). Same components are available for DIY but it costs more, if you can believe that. I don't believe the premade fixture has the water resistant endcaps as its not designed to be inside a canopy. The hydroponic link has a slightly better price as it includes all the lamps, not just two with the Reef geek. Reef geek is suppose to be a really solid outfit, I have read.

The only problem is Tek lights are not designed to be put in a canopy such as your AGA (all glass aquar.) so you will need to put in a computer fan or two and outflow vents plus a 12 volt power supply for the fans, as the 12 volt one's are quieter I believe. Here are the links and stay safe! http://www.reefgeek.com/products/categories/lighting/104192.html
http://www.4hydroponics.com/clone/cloneLighting2.asp?ItemNo=tekLt


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

cobra said:


> Thanks,
> 
> For all the posts! For someone (me) who has alot of disdain for over-usage of acronyms I should have clarified. All Glass Aquariums (AGA), is what I should have spelled out.
> 
> ...


AH Supply has what you want. They make the best reflectors in the market. I think given your canopy this would be your best choice. I would also recommend you go with Compact Fluorescents.

I apologize for the science content to you simple question. :wink: 

Nick


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## manderx (Jan 5, 2004)

> You see, the values that Huntley, and others, posted are probably correct in establishing the degradation of light intensity as a function of depth, but this only holds true for the visible spectrum of light that Huntley's, and others meters where designed for. In other words, he wasn't looking at the whole picture !
> 
> You see plants absorb light over a much larger spectrum, not that which is limited to the human eye and the meter. Most commercial light meters only measure within the visible spectrum.


what 'physics' are you talking about? the standard light measurment for plants- PAR (photosynthetically available radiation) is within visible light, it's 400-700. a lux meter would be perfectly good for measuring the % light loss with depth since all you're measuring is what % is absorbed by the water plus how much it disperses with distance. selective absorbtion by wavelength isn't an issue in our tanks since we're only talking about a relatively narrow band and a difference of a few inches really.



i personally like T5s much better than PCs. the bulbs are more durable and last longer since they are programmed start vs rapid/instant start. much of the wear and tear on bulbs is during starting. the fulham workhorse ballasts are cheap, but don't start them correctly (programmed) and will wear them out much faster. use the triad (35 bucks to run 2 bulbs) or an icecap (much more expensive but also overdrives them a bit- 54w bulbs really run at 80w).

the sunlight retrofit kit is extremely easy to install. the wiring diagram is as clear as can be, completely color coded and you don't even have to cut or strip a wire unless you want to make them shorter. the wiring couldn't be any easier, just push them into the sockets/ballast and they lock in place automatically- no tools. all you have to do is mount the ballast and endcaps really. it uses the triad ballast, which is *very* narrow and easy to fit anywhere.

if you don't want to DIY anything, the TEK fixture doesn't really cost any more than the retro kits, and you can mount it as-is in your canopy as long as there is decent ventilation. the only problem is the bulbs are jammed together as tight as possible, and it's probably nice to be able to spread them out a few inches apart from each other. but it probably won't matter in a tall tank like a 75. different story on a 40breeder. the tek fixture is sexy enough you might even want to reconsider hiding it in a canopy. open-topped tanks are pretty cool.

i'm in the process of building a canopy for my 90 w/ 4 T5s driven by an icecap 660. the polyurethane is drying tonight and the rest of the parts arrive in the mail tomorrow. i would use a tek without a canopy, but it's going to be in the bedroom and i don't want any light spilling out into the room.


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

manderx said:


> what 'physics' are you talking about? the standard light measurment for plants- PAR (photosynthetically available radiation) is within visible light, it's 400-700. a lux meter would be perfectly good for measuring the % light loss with depth since all you're measuring is what % is absorbed by the water plus how much it disperses with distance. selective absorbtion by wavelength isn't an issue in our tanks since we're only talking about a relatively narrow band and a difference of a few inches really.
> .


Wrong. You are measuring part of the spectrum, and you are also making the assumption of a linear attenuation across the "entire" spectrum, which is not true. Light attenuation is an exponential rate, not linear. That is why the Delta % would not be accurate.

Plants photosynthesis uses a much broader spectrum than just visible light.

Once again, almost all commercially available meters measure light only within the visible range.

There is much available on Gaussian Beam equations, and the characterization of light equations on the Internet.. If you are ever in CT, let me know, stop by the University of New Haven where I teach and I can demonstrate this basic principle to you in the lightwave lab.


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

Oops, my manners ...

Welcome to the board manderx

Please join and become a full member. roud: 

Its worth the money !

Nick


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## manderx (Jan 5, 2004)

plants use 400-700. this is visible light. they do not use beyond this range for photosynthesis. it's called PAR, you can buy a meter that measures this. it's actually the pretty much the same range as a lux meter, except that a lux meter weights green heavier than the ends of the range to match our eyes, PAR weights everything the same to match chlorophyll response.

i realize that different wavelengths are absorbed by the water at different rates, i think everyone knows that's the reason everything starts to look blue 30+ feet down. but, we're only talking about the difference between a short tank (12") and a tall tank (30"). it's *completely* insignificant in our discussions of lighting a fish tank.


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Anyone have any idea why the 60" T5 runs at 80watts while the 48" runs at 54 watts? Its only 25% longer but puts out almost 50% more lights. The reason I ask is I'm contemplating going with a 60" tank (if I can find one) and doing a 4x80 watt (60inch) T5 for the light. Are the 54 watts underdriven or what? Thanks, bob


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## cobra (Feb 4, 2005)

Mucho Gracias,

To all the insightful replies. I would like to attach a JPEG of this 75 AGA canopy. In order to solicit suggestions for a retrofit. Can somebody train me up on getting an image imbedded into my post?

Thanks!

Greg


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Mr. JackFrost, 

We had a discussion about this idea of depth affecting light penetration at this thread: http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5433 
If it's OK I'd like to ask if you would take a moment and tell us how this relates to what you are stating. 

Thanks,


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## Jackfrost (Jan 8, 2005)

In lieu of long winded debate, I would like to point people to reading the article: "The Incredible Being of Lightness" written by Hieber and Mendelux in the April - June 2003 issue of "The Aquatic Gardener".

The article is very "balanced" without getting too scientific.

The conclussion pretty much goes like the discussions here.

Some people believe that the 2~3 WPG rule is in effect and that depth has no impact.

Others believe that depth is indeed a "measurable" coefficient that does play a role and determine light intensity.

Enough said


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## cobra (Feb 4, 2005)

Mucho Gracias,

To all the insightful replies. I have attached a JPEG of this 75 AGA canopy. Anybody have any thoughts on the feasiblity of a retrofit for this thing? Does that center brace pose a problem for installation? I was thinking the wife could cash in another blue chip with the woodshop guys at her highschool where she teaches art and have them install it. Any suggestions you have here will be passed on to the shop class.

Many Thanks,

Greg


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

For the AH Supply kits you would need 22" of open space between the sides and the brace. And the brace does make putting lights into that canopy a bit harder. If you have that amount of space between the brace and the sides then go with AH Supply kits. They are actually about the only thing you can put in there with that brace.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

Unless he installs the T-5 lights under the brace, benefit would be, the lights would not lift up and shine in your face when you open the top, con, the lights would be in the way if you wanted to reach into the tank. I don't think the lights would take up so much space that you couldn't feed your plants/fish past them.


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## cobra (Feb 4, 2005)

Guys,

How about the TEK T5 lighting system? It has a fairly slim profile. I remember reading somewhere where I guy had his laying on his glass with furniture pegs underneath to get it up off the glass? Suggestions?

Thanks in Advance,

Greg


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

You need to retrofit since you have a canopy. www.Reefgeek.com is where you want to look in terms of T5 lighting. But I do recommend you use Workhorse ballasts.


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## cobra (Feb 4, 2005)

Raul-7,

Did you view my posted image of this canopy? What would be the difference between mounting a retro-fit or just laying in a ready-made enclosure? Either way both are going to make things awkward in terms of cleaning, moving stuff around, catching fish, etc. Is it because of the moisture proof endcaps a retrofit provides? Sorry, for all this incessant questioning but, I'm trying to get this stuff right as humanly possible for a first time go at it. Are there any DIY links that show examples in terms of fixtures inside canopies that would be useful?

Thanks!

Greg


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## Urkevitz (Jan 12, 2004)

Cobra, I think you can mount the retrofit to the inside of the canopy, that way you just flip it up to do work in your tank. You would need lights that would be able to fit around the center brace though.


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## SCMurphy (Oct 21, 2003)

I hate to say it but any way you put lights in that canopy, working in the tank with the canopy in place is going to be a major PIA. I'm 6 feet tall and I get my T-shirt sleeves wet when I work in my 75. You will need to be 6 inches taller than me to be able to comfortably reach into the tank with the canopy there. 

I built my 75 canopy to let me get into the tank while keeping the lights in place and out of my face. The Tek system you asked about would work great but I think you'd have to abandon your canopy to use it. You could get the 'cable suspension system' and hang the lights from the celing which would allow you to go open top if you wanted to, as well as have light to work in the tank by.


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## Darrell Ward (Jan 14, 2005)

SCMurphy said:


> I hate to say it but any way you put lights in that canopy, working in the tank with the canopy in place is going to be a major PIA. I'm 6 feet tall and I get my T-shirt sleeves wet when I work in my 75. You will need to be 6 inches taller than me to be able to comfortably reach into the tank with the canopy there.
> 
> Yep, I removed canopies from my reef tanks years ago. They just get in the way! When you remove them to get inside the tank, you also remove your lighting as well. So now you are working without lights in the tank! No thanks, I like open tops, and pendant lighting. That's whats going on my new tank, pendants. Nice clean look, easy to work in the tank, with the lights on! :icon_bigg Oh, and some t-5 fixtures can be hung above the tank as well. Since t-5's with all those high dollar bulbs cost about as much as MH, I feel MH is more bang for the buck. This is JMO though, as most plant guys swear by "them gas filled tubes"! As they say, "there's more than one way to skin the cat"! :icon_bigg


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## Gill Man (Feb 5, 2005)

Yes! Me too. Got sick of my canopy on my 90 gallon tank with the reflector retrofit CF kit. Not only was it a PITA to work on the tank, but the f-ing corners and hot edges were always an issue. So I switched to the new HQI retractable pendants and took the lid off the canopy rim and I couldn't be more pleased with the results and ease when working on my tank any time I want. This is really handy for larger tanks.


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