# Will this ammonia work for a fishless cycle?



## THE V (Nov 17, 2011)

The surfactant will kill the bacteria. I wouldn't use it.


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## annyann (Aug 31, 2013)

Here is a link to it...

http://www.lowes.com/pd_420064-59800-19708815031_0__?productId=3822907


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## WestHaven (Jun 30, 2012)

Yeah don't use it. Do you have an Ace Hardware where you live? Get their ammonia. It doesn't have surfactants or colorants in it.


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## annyann (Aug 31, 2013)

Well darn, I'll have to take it back to Lowe's. I dont have an Ace Hardware around here that I know of. I have Home Depo, Lowe's, Walmart... 
Thanks for letting me know it won't work, that would of been a really bad start...:icon_redf


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## Axelrod12 (Jun 28, 2013)

Check if there are any dollar stores nearby. I found mine at one, a Dollar Tree if I remember correctly. I'm sure many others will have it as well though. The brand I found was Austin's. Avoid anything with surfacants. Ammonia should be the only listed ingredient.


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## annyann (Aug 31, 2013)

Axelrod12 said:


> Check if there are any dollar stores nearby. I found mine at one, a Dollar Tree if I remember correctly. I'm sure many others will have it as well though. The brand I found was Austin's. Avoid anything with surfacants. Ammonia should be the only listed ingredient.


Thanks, I do have a dollar tree and a dollar general nearby. I will definitely check them, hopefully later today.


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## GoKingsGo (Jul 15, 2013)

annyann said:


> Thanks, I do have a dollar tree and a dollar general nearby. I will definitely check them, hopefully later today.


The brand they had here at the Dollar Tree was Pine Glo. I was worried with a name like that that it had additives, but it was pure ammonia, unscented, and no surfacants. I think they have regional brands though as some of their stores carry LA's Totally Awesome Pure Ammonia, but they are both good for fishless cycle.


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## THE V (Nov 17, 2011)

$1.66 is way too expensive for ammonia for fishless cycling. You need to go much cheaper - Got mine at the grocery store for $0.89.


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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

THE V said:


> $1.66 is way too expensive for ammonia for fishless cycling. You need to go much cheaper - Got mine at the grocery store for $0.89.



$1.66 is cheaper than $10 worth fish or fish fish food for that matter to cycle. I would pay $5 bucks for pure ammonia if I needed to.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

That is true, but the $5 ammonia will be the one that has surfactants, perfume and comes in the extra large economy size. 

Aim for the dollar tree sort of stuff. It'll cost about a buck.


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## Couesfanatic (Sep 28, 2009)

Just throw some plants in there and add some cheap fish flakes every day. Give it two weeks and you are good to go most likely. If you are adding plants the cycle will complete much faster.


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## annyann (Aug 31, 2013)

Okay, I went to my local Dollar Tree as suggested above and found the brand LA's Totally Awesome Pure ammonia. It has no ingredients list, the label just says pure ammonia. I think this is what I need right?
So now what? Can anyone tell me about how much I need to add to start with? Should I be adding it by drops or teaspoons? :icon_eek:Thanks


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## danielt (Dec 19, 2012)

Try to keep 5ppm for the first week. Or a value that's piked up by your ammonia test. There's no actual recipe to it since you might have a different concentration of ammonia. My spoon could be bigger than yours 




Couesfanatic said:


> If you are adding plants the cycle will complete much faster.


I would love to see the logic behind that one


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## rininger85 (Jun 30, 2013)

surfactant is like a soap product... you want ammonia without surfactants in it. I just went and bought frozen shrimp and when I start a new tank I toss a shrimp in and let it rot and it gives me an immediate ammonia reaction within a day. In my SW tank I have high enough flow that I just left it until it completely dissolved, but FW tanks I will probably leave it in for a few days (until the ammonia hits 8) then remove it. After 1 day of the shrimp in I'm at 1.0ppm ammonia already, so a couple more days it'll max out, then once I remove it I'll start feeding the tank fish food every day to keep giving it something to decay to keep feeding bacteria.


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## Nu2Plants (Jun 22, 2013)

I had a hard time finding the proper ammonia too. I went to walmart, homedepot and lowes. No dice. I finally did get it at ACE hardware. Before you use it, no matter what the label says, shake the bottle, but first make sure the top is on tight. If it makes suds, don't use it, those are the surfactants.


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## annyann (Aug 31, 2013)

Nu2Plants said:


> I had a hard time finding the proper ammonia too. I went to walmart, homedepot and lowes. No dice. I finally did get it at ACE hardware. Before you use it, no matter what the label says, shake the bottle, but first make sure the top is on tight. If it makes suds, don't use it, those are the surfactants.


What are you kidding me? I shook it and it did have "suds"! But it says PURE AMMONIA!! So does this mean I can't use it?
Thanks for the heads up Nu2Plants


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## rininger85 (Jun 30, 2013)

Just toss a piece of shrimp in, or a chunk of chicken from you dinner or something. All you need is something that will decay quickly in water.

Sent from my SCH-I405 using Tapatalk 2


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## James M (Jun 21, 2012)

Yeah there's little point in adding actual ammonia.


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## kcoscia (Jul 24, 2013)

I've successfully fishless cycled tanks with fish food degrading since I can't find pure ammonia. Worked fine, no problems.

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## flight50 (Apr 17, 2012)

annyann said:


> Okay, I went to my local Dollar Tree as suggested above and found the brand LA's Totally Awesome Pure ammonia. It has no ingredients list, the label just says pure ammonia. I think this is what I need right?
> So now what? Can anyone tell me about how much I need to add to start with? Should I be adding it by drops or teaspoons? :icon_eek:Thanks


Diana has a nice write that she usually post on how to do the fishless cycle. You can either search thru some threads or pm her to post it here. In a nutshell add enough ammonia to get you 3-5ppm and raise the temp to the low to mid 80s.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

Pure ammonia can make some bubbles when you shake it, but not very many, and they usually pop pretty fast. 
Surfactants would make LOTS of bubbles, enough to fill the air space in the bottle, and they do not pop so fast. 

Here is the fishless cycle:

Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details. 

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium. 

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks. 

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water. 
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine. 
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine. 
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated. 
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful. 
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation. 
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort. 
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required. 
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different. 

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else. 
At the time this was written the right species could be found in: 
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others. 
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast. 

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though. 
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below. 

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm. 

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm. 

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm. 

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours. 

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high! 
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
__________________________

Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1b) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off. 
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better. 
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen. 
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well. 
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations. 

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.


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## annyann (Aug 31, 2013)

Thanks so much everyone for helping me. Diana thank you for the detailed steps in fishless cycling. When I shake the ammonia it has a thick white foam that completely fills the air space at the top of the bottle, so I wont be using it. I have decided to use fish food and put it in a nylon sock and float it in the tank. 
Here's a link to my tank journal if anyone wants to see the tank
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=452129


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## rininger85 (Jun 30, 2013)

if you want to use fish food I would take it and put it in your filter, if its blocked by the filter having flow run over it constantly will help it break down faster which will feed bacteria faster than waiting for fish food to break down on its own (thus why we call filters nitrate sponges in the SW hobby because stuff gets caught in the filter and runs through the nitrogen cycle faster and causes higher nitrates in the tank, vs. just letting it settle in a low flow area of the tank and siphoning it out with water changes).

Just an idea to help speed things up =)


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## jbrady33 (Jun 7, 2012)

danielt said:


> Try to keep 5ppm for the first week. Or a value that's piked up by your ammonia test. There's no actual recipe to it since you might have a different concentration of ammonia. My spoon could be bigger than yours
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:smile: If the plants come submersed from an established tank they will be covered in good bacteria, _possibly _jumpstarting the process.


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## annyann (Aug 31, 2013)

jbrady33 said:


> :smile: If the plants come submersed from an established tank they will be covered in good bacteria, _possibly _jumpstarting the process.


Oh yea! I didn't think of that. So im off to a good start already:bounce:


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