# What is the best PWM light controller/app for DIY?



## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Bluefish mini is all you need.

Forgot to mention bluefish mini only works with 3.3v pwm so basically meanwell ldd only. If you are using something else then you will need the full bluefish unit.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

gus6464 said:


> Forgot to mention bluefish mini only works with 3.3v pwm so basically meanwell ldd only. If you are using something else then you will need the full bluefish unit.


It would be easy to build something similar with arduino. afaict, the can have 10+ 3.3v pwm outputs.

Just looking for ui code to see how much work would need to be done. 

Also unclear if there is enough current to support multiple LDDs.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ChrisX said:


> It would be easy to build something similar with a NodeMCU arduino. afaict, the nodemcu can have up to ten 3.3v pwm outputs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Bluefish mini can handle multiple ldds per channel easy. I've done 4 per but it can do way more.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

BF mini outputs a 3.3V PWM signal...to low for many Meanwell ldd-l drivers (3.5V min.)
I own one and like it BUT...
Only 4 periods like most of the others..

Nodody's put "good" software in any....

Tc-420 ..as crude as it is is more "advanced" than most others..

Until someone ports over the Radion "system" I really have no loyalty to any..
If shopping for one "today" I'd be hard pressed to get any really..

Of course that is just my opinion..


Oh btw, and probably "me" centric.. Bluefish mini "Blynkup" to get it started was a royal PIA...

Prob. would look into a DIY w/ the likes of some "hand crafted" programs..


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Well bluefish was mainly designed for LDD-H so that makes sense. LDD-L was not common at all until very recently and kind of a moot point since most boards out there are for H only. I have 2 mini's which I've used on multiple lights with multiple LDD-H boards on one light and no issues. The mini software is way more than useful for our purposes.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> BF mini outputs a 3.3V PWM signal...to low for many Meanwell ldd-l drivers (3.5V min.)
> I own one and like it BUT...
> Only 4 periods like most of the others..
> 
> ...


lol.. I have the LDD-Ls. I guess the BF mini is out. I didnt' realize they have different voltage ranges for PWM control.. weird.

What I really want is the ability to test quickly changes. I've considered buying 5x of those manual PWM dimmers. My DIY light has a cat connector so I could just unplug the 421 and plug in the manual PWM module. That would address the major problem with the 421, which is that it can't make changes in real time. I would use the analog dimming solution I built earlier, but it only works in the 20-100% range.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Hmm why you using LDD-L? You are running diodes at 1.5 amps?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ChrisX said:


> lol.. I have the LDD-Ls. I guess the BF mini is out. I didnt' realize they have different voltage ranges for PWM control.. weird.
> 
> What I really want is the ability to test quickly changes. I've considered buying 5x of those manual PWM dimmers. My DIY light has a cat connector so I could just unplug the 421 and plug in the manual PWM module. That would address the major problem with the 421, which is that it can't make changes in real time. I would use the analog dimming solution I built earlier, but it only works in the 20-100% range.



NOT ALL LDD-Ls are incompatible.. Believe the 1 1.2 and 1.5A ones are "ok"...
If you are running the larger ones you are fine..

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ec-47593.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2S0PIo-z02QEdG1vki1ASc


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> NOT ALL LDD-Ls are incompatible.. Believe the 1 1.2 and 1.5A ones are "ok"...
> If you are running the larger ones you are fine..
> 
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...ec-47593.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2S0PIo-z02QEdG1vki1ASc


Cool, thanks. Im using 1200 and 1500.

Bump:


gus6464 said:


> Hmm why you using LDD-L? You are running diodes at 1.5 amps?


Yes. And the Ls support analog dimming.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Ohh hmm the 1200 and 1500 will be no issue with the mini.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> Oh btw, and probably "me" centric.. Bluefish mini "Blynkup" to get it started was a royal PIA...
> 
> Prob. would look into a DIY w/ the likes of some "hand crafted" programs..


Is bluefish mini based on public Blynk server? Thats unfortunate.


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

As far as I know it's not. There's a link-up procedure that uses blinking lights on the module to sync with your control device (phone, tablet, etc) that has been a bit of a pain in the arse for some. I don't believe it uses Blynk for public server, but it's been a while since I messed with them. I've set up a few, they work very well and are easy to use. I just wish they had a few more features, and maybe a provision for simple On/Off switching for fans or other accessories. They are admittedly pretty expensive for what they are.

I haven't had good luck with Blynk at all, so I understand your reticence entirely!



How many channels and time slots do you need? If six channels will do then the bluefish will be a good fit, especially if you don't need too many complicated timetables. For larger channels and more complex tables there is a pretty nice sixteen channel controller project over at ultimatereef-

https://www.ultimatereef.net/threads/simple-multichannel-up-to-16-led-controller.784531/

The controls are very basic (you get a rotary encoder/knob, and a single button) and a little fiddly, and the display is a basic 20X4 LCD, no app connectivity, but it's a very powerful controller if you need more time slots and channels than most controllers offer. I have one running my reef tank (two channels) and my planted nano (four channels) with CAT6 cable carrying the four channels 25 feet along the baseboards to the opposite side of the room. You can pre-load the code into the controller as well to set the times/levels without having to fool with the knob. If you need less channels, just code the loadout for as many as you are using, and just install as many outputs as you need.

I use 1/8 stereo (headphone) connectors to carry PWM, so its very easy to use CAT6 cable to make up custom patch cables as needed to feed multiple fixtures/tanks, and simply add a jack to the fixture as needed. My controller is set up for up to sixteen channels with the associated jacks, but I simply leave the others unused, I'll code the channels as I need in the future. Could be very useful for propagation/fishroom control


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Lingwendil said:


> As far as I know it's not. There's a link-up procedure that uses blinking lights on the module to sync with your control device (phone, tablet, etc) that has been a bit of a pain in the arse for some. I don't believe it uses Blynk for public server, but it's been a while since I messed with them. I've set up a few, they work very well and are easy to use. I just wish they had a few more features, and maybe a provision for simple On/Off switching for fans or other accessories. They are admittedly pretty expensive for what they are.
> 
> I haven't had good luck with Blynk at all, so I understand your reticence entirely!
> 
> ...


Besides additional channels, how does this improve upon a TC421? The problems with the 421 are:

1) There is no real-time adjustment of the channels. Changes are made to the program, they are uploaded to the 421, and then programs are selected using the hardware up/down buttons. It needs either hardware controls or app with sliders for adjustment.

2) There is no day of week functionality. Your light program runs the same way every day.


Regarding the Bluefish, does it have a battery backup to retain the clock? Otherwise a power outage might require resetting the clock to resume proper operation, or perhaps it gets it from the network.


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

No real time adjustment, unfortunately 


The Bluefish is a network device, so I believe it needs to be connected to wifi after power loss if I'm not mistaken.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

It takes the time from your network. In the event of loss of wifi it does not lose the time so keeps on going. In the event of a power failure it will still retain it's time when it comes back up but it will need to eventually connect to WiFi to resync. If you are planning on using the bluefish without WiFi ever then it's not the device for you.

Also I have 2 units and have never had an issue pairing the blink card. I've even paired the card using the bluefish app on my computer through the Android emulator.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

gus6464 said:


> It takes the time from your network. In the event of loss of wifi it does not lose the time so keeps on going. In the event of a power failure it will still retain it's time when it comes back up but it will need to eventually connect to WiFi to resync. If you are planning on using the bluefish without WiFi ever then it's not the device for you.
> 
> Also I have 2 units and have never had an issue pairing the blink card. I've even paired the card using the bluefish app on my computer through the Android emulator.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


I don't know much about Blynk other that it appears to be a (paid) toolkit for rapid prototyping UIs that is backed by a server for managing user accounts and application state. 

Is it's footprint so large that it needs an SDram card? I was curious why the Bluefish mini has a socketed sdram card, considering that the UI runs from the mobile phone, unless it is running a Blynk webserver on the device?

Bluefish mini looks cool, but not sure about Blynk.

Edit: Blynk is icky. No wonder BF mini costs so much.
https://www.blynk.io/plans/


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Had the same reservations myself but got over it. 
I get notices from the Blynk server of network maintenance or outages..
don't part. like things out of my control though the whole "networking" thing has err issues..

Even "simple" blue tooth can be annoying w/ some OS versions/types..

I.E bought a cheap led programming unit via bluetooth but would only work w/ certain "flavors" of Andriod, which at the time, didn't own..
and you can't (easily) upgrade it w/out "magic" ie. "root" your device w/ all the associated risks..

Bottom line.. assume nothing is really safe or foolproof..
so bought a BFM

Actually prefer wires.................like for using the TC-420... until my notebook died..
Then went BFM.. 
There is something to say for the simplicity of the likes of Typhon/Hurricane/Storm/Storm X.............and associated controllers.


Sadly "the market" trends to phones and tablets so a "compromise" system i.e GUI networked on board isn't a priority for anyone.
nor "complex" programming w/ multiple ind points..


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

ChrisX said:


> I don't know much about Blynk other that it appears to be a (paid) toolkit for rapid prototyping UIs that is backed by a server for managing user accounts and application state.
> 
> Is it's footprint so large that it needs an SDram card? I was curious why the Bluefish mini has a socketed sdram card, considering that the UI runs from the mobile phone, unless it is running a Blynk webserver on the device?
> 
> ...


The blink process on the bfm is not the same as blynk. The creator calls the pairing process of the bfm to your account blink-up. You are thinking the two things are the same when they are not.

Bfm is electric imp based.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> Had the same reservations myself but got over it.
> I get notices from the Blynk server of network maintenance or outages..
> don't part. like things out of my control though the whole "networking" thing has err issues..
> ...
> ...


Check that link I provided above for "pricing" of Blynk.

Apparently there is a monthy charge to the business to support up to a certain number of devices. For instance, up to 2000 devices costs $299/mo.

This is all well and good, but what if Bluefish decides its no longer profitable to maintain the service charge, because in the next year or two a better product appears at a lower price? Does that mean that all the old devices stop working (no longer can access their server)?

Basically, there is negative incentive for Bluefish to keep paying the monthly server fees. And worse, their fees seem to increase with the number of devices sold. Basically it doesn't appear to be a sustainable model.

Whole thing seems very sketchy. Basically its $5 worth of hardware and maybe 100 hours of work building a Blynk UI, and they charge $100 for it!! 

This fails on so many levels.

Bump:


gus6464 said:


> The blink process on the bfm is not the same as blynk. The creator calls the pairing process of the bfm to your account blink-up. You are thinking the two things are the same when they are not.
> 
> Bfm is electric imp based.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


You are absolutely certain that the BFM in no way uses or associated with Blynk? It appears to be a blynk app. Jeffkrol owns it and apparently he has had issues with the Blynk server... 

What an unfortunate choice of words, to call pairing "blinking".


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> Actually prefer wires.................like for using the TC-420... until my notebook died..


If you had a 421, you could use your phone to program it. Not bad for $25.

Although filling in 100s of cells with sliders is probably a royal PITA. I just use the phone app for testing color combos and use the PC app to program it.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Blynk needs open websockets of raw data for the connection. Electric Imp does not support this. This is straight from the electric imp forums.



> Turns out it’s not that easy; Blynk expects the device to be able to open a raw socket to their service, over which they send and receive binary packets.
> 
> This is unlikely to ever be supported; websockets are likely from the agent, but a raw socket could be abused too much (and isn’t easily traceable as there are no headers).
> 
> I suspect they listed us without actually trying it…


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ChrisX said:


> Check that link I provided above for "pricing" of Blynk.
> 
> Apparently there is a monthy charge to the business to support up to a certain number of devices. For instance, up to 2000 devices costs $299/mo.
> 
> ...



Well had the same concerns, even wrote to Bluefish about it...
Of course what were they going to say.... 
My biggest question was what you fear.. Eventually the "server" will be an annual subscription fee.
Bluefish isn't the "host"...and like I said blynk servers are or HIGHLY suspect as to where you "are"... 





I haven't had problems w/ the servers per se themselves.. Because the unit chugs along on autopilot if the network is lost.. No issues.
Where I had "MY" difficulties is the initial pairing of the unit w/ the server via the "blinkup"


Screen resolutions ect seem to be "my" difficulty.. or timing issues.
I had to sit there and attempt to "connect" for over 3 hours (on day 2, gave up after brief attempt on day 1).. tilting tablets, various devices ect..
finally got it to go.


all of this was more device idiosyncrasies than anything I suppose though some might have been server timeouts.


for some its.. "snap" and done, for some like me not so much..


https://aquarium-led-controller.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/bluefish-mini-manual.pdf


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> Well had the same concerns, even wrote to Bluefish about it...
> Of course what were they going to say....
> My biggest question was what you fear.. Eventually the "server" will be an annual subscription fee.
> Bluefish isn't the "host"...and like I said blynk servers are or HIGHLY suspect as to where you "are"...
> ...


They have a one year warranty. So technically, they can disable the server one year after the last is sold.

I suspect what they do is batch them together on multiple "servers". That way they can disable older ones and support the newer batch.

You don't need me to tell you how rotten this is for a device of this type; it's dependent on a server to keep operating.

Maybe they'll do something "clever" like disable the ones that haven't been used in a year.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

NOW THIS IS really embarrassing..

Ignore everything I said a bout Blynk servers through

still maintain the fact that Bluefish is "hosted" by 3rd party could sevices and all the "issues" would still apply..

Will update my EMBARRASSMENT soon...
This is what I get periodically. well not THIS message but related...........




> Electric Imp
> Developer server migration
> New incident: Identified
> We're performing an unscheduled migration of devices and agents on one of the developer servers. This also affects production devices using the fixed IP address for this server.
> ...


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> NOW THIS IS really embarrassing..
> 
> Ignore everything I said a bout Blynk servers through
> 
> ...


Ah, ok. Probably not entirely coincidental that Electric Imp called their card initialization blinkup. Same overall idea as Blynk; hosted IOT. Wonder if blynk has a blinking card too? 

Its weird that they have the app flash the network information to the card instead of configuring in the application. That seems like a way to ensure that endpoints dont get reused.

Both of these companies seem to epitomize the worst of silicon valley startups.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Electric Imp Status

https://www.electricimp.com/platform/how-it-works/

Need to update myself.. 

like I said, prob. no difference..



> Public Cloud
> 
> The Electric Imp Public Cloud is our multi-tenant option, providing readily available, secure, and cost-effective service — currently available on AWS and Azure.
> 
> Electric Imp deals with provisioning, scalability, and availability across the public cloud user base, offering the service for a simple per-device subscription fee. As your business scales, our cloud will scale with you, letting you concentrate on your products and customers.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Bluefish has been around for 5+ years now. He is the only supplier for nanobox now and he sells a lot of lights. Needless to say the bluefish server isn't going away anytime soon since pretty much all the diy sites sell it too.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Point was Bluefish contracts space on a cloud server..
What happens to that is not in their control...

https://developer.electricimp.com/troubleshooting/blinkup

Side note.. Things that really bug me.. Catch 22's
"These adjustments shouldn’t be necessary when the imp-based device has updated to the latest version of impOS, which will take place when the device first connects successfully. "

another way to say it.. "If you can't get connected this will be fixed w/ new software once connected".... LOL


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> Point was Bluefish contracts space on a cloud server..
> What happens to that is not in their control...
> 
> https://developer.electricimp.com/troubleshooting/blinkup
> ...


IMO, what they are doing is trying to monetize cloud storage for the "internet of things" by *device* instead of by transaction or bandwidth. Its a high minded (but low value) way to make more money.

The problem is that they are enticing low-skill development shops to use their tools primarily for developing web UI (but also for security, accounts, etc) for arduino-based hardware, and charging them *by device* when the hosting/transactional costs for something like a Bluefish Mini are negligible.


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

I'm really hoping someone implements a simple WiFi device at some point that is basically a bluefish, but that can be "logged into" like one would a wireless network router or modem. Support of an app or "cloud" services may be fun, but nothing beats putting all the numbers/levels locally and letting it do it's own thing independent of the network. This would be ideal, in my opinion. This would make a simple but intuitive web-based configuration page multi-platform compatible, and not even require an app to be installed.


I have seen a few similar functioning builds based on the ESP8266 wifi boards (arduino supported!) but none with the ease of use of something like the software AI uses, or the app that bluefish used. Simple things like this are supported on the ESP, but it all comes down to how the one writing the code implements it. All one would need for a basic, functioning controller is the ESP board, and an RTC chip (which could even be left out if wifi is available!) and maybe a PCA9685 PWM chip if you want full 12 bit/4096 steps (ESP can do 10 bit/1024 steps, 8 channels natively) dimming up to 16 total channels. It could all easily be done in the footprint of the Bluefish mini for less than $20 for the DIYer, just need the code.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Lingwendil said:


> just need the code.



Gee so simple.. 


sorry a little friendly poke.. 



Haven't plugged Rob in a while..


https://www.robo-tank.ca/
https://www.robo-tank.ca/forum/Thread-Robo-Tank-v5-0-Screenshots-and-Flowchart-Ideas-Needed

Or him:
https://www.ferduino.com/

Not sure how they pull it off w/ Arduino and such limited memory..but not my wheelhouse

but neither does wifi


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Lingwendil said:


> I'm really hoping someone implements a simple WiFi device at some point that is basically a bluefish, but that can be "logged into" like one would a wireless network router or modem. Support of an app or "cloud" services may be fun, but nothing beats putting all the numbers/levels locally and letting it do it's own thing independent of the network. This would be ideal, in my opinion. This would make a simple but intuitive web-based configuration page multi-platform compatible, and not even require an app to be installed.
> 
> 
> I have seen a few similar functioning builds based on the ESP8266 wifi boards (arduino supported!) but none with the ease of use of something like the software AI uses, or the app that bluefish used. Simple things like this are supported on the ESP, but it all comes down to how the one writing the code implements it. All one would need for a basic, functioning controller is the ESP board, and an RTC chip (which could even be left out if wifi is available!) and maybe a PCA9685 PWM chip if you want full 12 bit/4096 steps (ESP can do 10 bit/1024 steps, 8 channels natively) dimming up to 16 total channels. It could all easily be done in the footprint of the Bluefish mini for less than $20 for the DIYer, just need the code.


I've been thinking about building something like what you describe. There are plenty of examples of a web interface to an esp8266 to control diodes. They have enough on board pwm outputs for most users. The board runs a simple webserver, serves pages to a browser and control is achieved by parsing the html returned to the board. 

While this is not as performant as a native app, it should be good enough for our purposes.

I suspect the reason no one has fleshed out this "easy" method is because of memory and/or performance limitations. Once control logic, look up tables, web pages are built, its not clear to me that it would fit into the limited ram of an esp8266. And even if it does, who wants to invest that much work into an on board web server and pages that will never be interactive/attractive or performant like a native app?

This suggests that the only way to get something on par with what AI uses is a native application(s), which will be 20x more work and not cross-platform like a web app. I'm not too familiar with the AI Prime software, I'm assuming its native PC/bootcamp.

So basically, to answer your question, the "simple" solution of using an on board web server will not perform well enough, and writing a native app (and integration with on-board software) is too much work and not commercially viable. There are other ways to do it that are cross platform, but still not commercially viable, especially considering hardware is diy.

That is why Bluefish Mini used ElectricImp/Blynk. It leverages their easy UI development and IOT device integration, at the cost of being a part of their cloud and subscription service. That is also the reason not to buy a Bluefish.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

So basically just buy a bluefish

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

gus6464 said:


> So basically just buy a bluefish
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk



I'd say, just buy a TC421 for $25, unless you don't mind being dongled to the internet and Blynk servers. At least the TC has battery backup and will soldier on without a network.

You can connect to the TC421 wifi directly from your mobile, or through a network.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ChrisX said:


> I've been thinking about building something like what you describe. There are plenty of examples of a web interface to an esp8266 to control diodes. They have enough on board pwm outputs for most users. The board runs a simple webserver, serves pages to a browser and control is achieved by parsing the html returned to the board.
> 
> While this is not as performant as a native app, it should be good enough for our purposes.
> 
> ...



What you need is a team effort and a SET limit on where one wants to go..
Ind. come and go and projects keep expanding so they are never done.
Instead of constantly expanding the platform it needs to be models.. Market will sort them out..




Also need to not keep using THE cheapest microprocessor/parts platforms..
That said, if you pay more for parts you do expect more..


> If you're trying to choose a WiFi development board, there are two points to remember:
> 
> 
> *The ESP8266 has relatively few GPIO pins*. It can talk to a couple of external sensors and read a couple of buttons, but if you plan to pile on the hardware, you'll run into the hardware's limits quickly.
> The ESP8266's operating system has to check the WiFi radio every few milliseconds. If it can't, its watchdog timer will crash the system and report a 'wdt error'. Unlike other microcontrollers, you don't have complete control of the hardware, and have to make your code cooperate with the rest of the system.




https://learn.adafruit.com/how-to-choose-a-microcontroller/wifi-boards


sorry, just throwing stuff out there...



> The ESP8266 is one example: it's designed to do WiFi at a very low cost. It has few input/output pins and peripherals, but one of the peripherals is a WiFi radio. It has large collection of built-in firmware, and a simple operating system that keeps the WiFi radio running more of less independently of the code you upload.
> 
> Some projects look to use this chip without WiFi solely due to cost. But the lack of input/output pins and peripherals often make it necessary to switch to a more capable chip.
> 
> The ESP32 and nRF52 are also SOCs. The ESP32 is intended to be a one-stop-shopping solution for any device with a wireless data connection. It can do WiFi, Bluetooth Classic, and Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE). The nRF52 focuses on BLE, and can operate as a BLE central device.


for fun, pick something.. 
https://www.postscapes.com/internet...r":"is","field":"field_260"}]&view_218_page=1

go outside the box.. Yea this doesn't have wireless..
https://www.pine64.org/?product=pine-a64-board-1gb
add it:
https://www.pine64.org/?product=wifi-802-11bgn-bluetooth-4-0-module
that and this.. $25...
PINE A64 512MB BOARD

$15.00

– 1.2 Ghz Quad-Core ARM Cortex A53 64-Bit Processor. Executes both 64 and 32 Bit for scalable high performance.
– Dual I/O expansion slots
– Dual Core Mali 400 MP2 Graphics card
– 512MB DDR3 Memory
– Integrated Display engine with HDMI 1.4a
– 10/100Mbps Ethernet Port


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

Raspberry Pi based solutions look promising, but too much "scope creep" in the projects I see. I don't want much more than light tables that can be modified on-the-go, a couple timed on/off switches, and fan control. I don't need or want a full controller. This will easily do what the ESP boards are lacking the RAM to do, but, I'm a hardware guy... the coding is way over my head for any network based functionality.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Lingwendil said:


> Raspberry Pi based solutions look promising, but too much "scope creep" in the projects I see. I don't want much more than light tables that can be modified on-the-go, a couple timed on/off switches, and fan control. I don't need or want a full controller. This will easily do what the ESP boards are lacking the RAM to do, but, I'm a hardware guy... the coding is way over my head for any network based functionality.


I have a pretty elegant solution in mind, but its more of a thought experiment. The part that is most interesting to me is network discovery; is it possible to blindly load firmware to a board and then have a mobile app identify it on the LAN without any configuration from user? Most of the arduinio solutions involve modifying the image with network credentials and then using the console to get its IP.

Blynk handles that for BFM, but it comes at a pretty high cost.

I can't imagine spending weeks/months to develop something that sells for $5 and only sells 439 copies.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

ChrisX said:


> I have a pretty elegant solution in mind, but its more of a thought experiment. The part that is most interesting to me is network discovery; is it possible to blindly load firmware to a board and then have a mobile app identify it on the LAN without any configuration from user? Most of the arduinio solutions involve modifying the image with network credentials and then using the console to get its IP.
> 
> Blynk handles that for BFM, but it comes at a pretty high cost.
> 
> I can't imagine spending weeks/months to develop something that sells for $5 and only sells 439 copies.


lights only/ w a few bells and whistles and semi-comprehensable software retails for $50.


It's "possible" to go as high as $100 if Radion like and a few things added..
Kaide has the gamma dimming ect.
Just needs a GUI...

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...a-raspberry-pi-light-controller-progress.html


Problem is "parts" are still on the "expensive" side ATM..
Thus why I mentioned the alternate above..


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Cept the part where Blynk has nothing to do with the BFM once again.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

gus6464 said:


> Cept the part where Blynk has nothing to do with the BFM once again.


Blynk == ElectricImp, easier to type.

Bump:


jeffkrol said:


> lights only/ w a few bells and whistles and semi-comprehensable software retails for $50.
> 
> 
> It's "possible" to go as high as $100 if Radion like and a few things added..
> ...


The part that he's asking help for is the most difficult/novel part of his proposal. The rest is just a variation of the many DIY arduino projects.


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

Imp is by far the simplest. The wifi and all the the junk is in the card. The pcb itself is just the hardware interface for the pwm. When you add more module cards you add complexity and size.

As a matter of fact eimp doesnt even charge the hobbyist for having an instance on the impcloud on AWS. So nothing is stopping you from buying an April board and putting together your own bfm.
https://developer.electricimp.com/hardware/resources/reference-designs/april

So $31 buys you the April and imp001 and you are set for your own bfm.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

On a weird side note.. How the heck did they come up w/ 3.3V being a power source????
Any voltage is random sort of..
Do vaguely remember early RAM having different voltages..

Though nice at times.. "legacy" junk can be annoying..


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## gus6464 (Dec 19, 2011)

jeffkrol said:


> On a weird side note.. How the heck did they come up w/ 3.3V being a power source????
> 
> Any voltage is random sort of..
> 
> ...


It's probably tied to the pwm signal somehow. But at least the voltage requirement is wide enough at 3.3-17v. I've powered mine with both 12v and 5v rails off a PSU with no issues.

I found a simple code for setting up pwm with 256 steps. As for the gui there's a toolkit available for easy creation so I might actually give the April board a whirl.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

jeffkrol said:


> On a weird side note.. How the heck did they come up w/ 3.3V being a power source????
> Any voltage is random sort of..
> Do vaguely remember early RAM having different voltages..
> 
> Though nice at times.. "legacy" junk can be annoying..


Its probably the minimum voltage that the MCU/memory can operate at. There are many advantages to having it operate at a lower voltage, especially for embedded devices.

If they could build one that runs at 2V, I'm sure they would. Just my guess.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Ordered one of these to play with:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DKD79Y9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

16 PWM outputs, OLED, battery backup connect, should be perfect.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

Will need to convert PWM outputs for use with 5 VDC drivers.

Bump: Will need to convert PWM outputs for use with 5 VDC drivers.


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## ChrisX (May 28, 2017)

Maryland Guppy said:


> Will need to convert PWM outputs for use with 5 VDC drivers.
> 
> Bump: Will need to convert PWM outputs for use with 5 VDC drivers.


Says it operates from 3.3 to 7v, but idk if that includes the PWM outputs. If not, there is an easy circuit that can raise PWM voltage.


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

These will help and no circuit to build.
https://www.banggood.com/5Pcs-8-Channel-Logic-Level-Translator-Converter-Bi-Directional-Module-p-1030476.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN

I think they are sharing the input requirements as in USB compatible.
Arduino boards I have are 3.3 output on pins.

I am waiting on more parts from China now.
For some reason AirPost stills seems like a boat trip. >

I also have a nice piece of code that may interest you if you are doing moonlight.
It calculates the phase of the moon in just 20 lines of code.
This can be applied to the max moon light setting to have a new moon and a full moon.
It is more accurate than the StormX in regards to moon phase.

RTC is really important with battery back up to implement this well.
The drift of an onboard RTC can be atrocious.
The board you have chosen may be better than most?

IMO 12bit dimming is a must, 16 bit which this board is capable of is kind of overkill.
8 bit dimming absolutely sucks!


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## Lingwendil (Nov 16, 2012)

8 bit has very noticeable steps, and looks atrocious at low level in some instances. 10 bit is a welcome improvement, and natively the defaut setting on the ESP8266, and is noticeable but not too bad unless paying very close attention. 12 bit is barely noticeable until very low duty cycle, I can only notice the incrementing at the last dozen or so steps before lights out using LDD-L drivers down to 0002/4095 steps with the PCA9685 based controller built off of these plans and code. I'm assuming this may be more due to the driver response than the dimming steps at such low levels.

Never seen a 16 bit solution in the wild yet, but don't really think it's all that necessary, unless for a _ne plus ultra_ sort of rig


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Lingwendil said:


> I'm assuming this may be more due to the driver response than the dimming steps at such low levels.
> 
> Never seen a 16 bit solution in the wild yet, but don't really think it's all that necessary, unless for a _ne plus ultra_ sort of rig



no, due to your non-linear eye response..









https://ledshield.wordpress.com/2012/11/13/led-brightness-to-your-eye-gamma-correction-no/




Changing the dim curve is prob. more advantageous to changing ths # of steps...
Problem is when you go this route you lose "PAR" estimates..
Linear 50% is 50% output PAR 

gamma 50% is not.

Easiest way I understand it.. you are more sensitive to small changes in dim light than small changes at high light.










funny though...


> *Again it is just a co-incidence. So somehow the gamma correction is close approximation of human perception the luminance.*


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