# Surface scum



## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

it is a protein bactiera.

i get it horrible in my tank, or used to. overflow box and sump completely negated the need for an airstone run at night which was the ONLY previous way to remove it..
if i hadn't run an airstone for a while. it would take a few days to break it up

mostly its due to food needing to be broken down,

however i rad not to long ago if you burn candles at all, they will leave a hazy film on the surface,
i would imagine other such greasy things like hairspray or air fresheners might do the same


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

It's biofilm. It's excess matter and nutrients that collect at the surface. You can avoid it by increasing surface tension, but invertebrates seem to like it.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> it is a protein bactiera.
> 
> i get it horrible in my tank, or used to. overflow box and sump completely negated the need for an airstone run at night which was the ONLY previous way to remove it..
> if i hadn't run an airstone for a while. it would take a few days to break it up
> ...


Should I cut back my feeding for a few days then? I used to do every other day, but switched to once a day.

We burn candles once and a while, but only upstairs (tank in the basement), but the wife doesn't use hair spray or air fresheners. Plus, the tank is in the basement so none of that stuff is ever down there (if I ever see it in the house to begin with)

I've read running an airstone at night would help, should I try that or just keep puting tubing in the venturi of my powerhead?



ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> It's biofilm. It's excess matter and nutrients that collect at the surface. You can avoid it by increasing surface tension, but invertebrates seem to like it.


Surface tension... do you mean surface agitation? If so, I have a TON of surface agitation. I can upload a video tonight to show how much I have if need be.

No inverts in my tank... angels eat them too quick before they can grow up. Used to have HUGE amanos from msjinkzd, but I think the angels got to all of them


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

before i went sump, i ran an airstone on a time at night. after about 4 nights of 10 hours of airstone, film went away and then stayed away with continual usage

it has a lot to do with food. i still get it if my flow isn't right and a corner of my tank surface doesn't get exchanged enough. i am overstocked and overfeed but i like my fish active and fat, makes me feel good since i can't gain weight i guess



at this point i feel agitation merely masks the issue. i've found that agiation pushes unsoiled water up and makes a section appear to be clean but as soon as it stops the oil takes over. skimmer, or overflow box, or a appropriately stocked tank with slight feeding is a must

too many of us keep species of fish that don't share food well and we feel the need to overfeed so the other's get to eat. so we get tricked into thinkign we are not overfeeding. this is my dilema


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> at this point i feel agitation merely masks the issue. i've found that agiation pushes unsoiled water up and makes a section appear to be clean but as soon as it stops the oil takes over. skimmer, or overflow box, or a appropriately stocked tank with slight feeding is a must
> 
> too many of us keep species of fish that don't share food well and we feel the need to overfeed so the other's get to eat. so we get tricked into thinkign we are not overfeeding. this is my dilema


HD, I think you hit the nail on the head with these statements.

My angels are food hogs and don't like to share so I give extra so the tetras get some as well as my cory cats so they don't starve. I will cut back on food for a few days and see what comes of it. I'll still be putting tubing in the venturi of my powerhead at night to help with the issue.


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

I never could get rid of it in my tank, thats why I tried a Fluval surface skimmer. Love it. 

http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-A240-Fluval-Surface-Skimmer/dp/B000256CGY


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

livingword26 said:


> I never could get rid of it in my tank, thats why I tried a Fluval surface skimmer. Love it.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-A240-Fluval-Surface-Skimmer/dp/B000256CGY


Good to know about this. I'll have to try it out if all else fails. 

The scum only started last few weeks, before that, I never had it. Not sure what changed... but must be something if it came up


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

shinycard255 said:


> HD, I think you hit the nail on the head with these statements.
> 
> My angels are food hogs and don't like to share so I give extra so the tetras get some as well as my cory cats so they don't starve. I will cut back on food for a few days and see what comes of it. I'll still be putting tubing in the venturi of my powerhead at night to help with the issue.



i will say this, cutting back food for a few days wont help much, i ran into that issue

the problem is. a fish stomach is basically a straight run through, they will avidly overeat if given the option. it pushes food out faster than its really. that smartest thing my LFS said is that a hungry fish is a healthy fish. this means that the overall tank conditions are easier to maintain. the excess poop is really the problem. ur fish will eat anything available and even pick it off the bottom, i saw my angels do it.

for anything on the bottom, i've started with crab and lobster bites, as they sink and are too hard at first for an angel or tetra to care.

i also feed bloodworms which is great when using a 5 ml child medicine dropper. u can squeeze some out really fast to get to the bottom before other fish grab em all. this way everyone gets a balanced diet of flakes, sinking bites, and frozen food. i throw in some veggies from time to time as i have loaches and they like a few veggie snacks soemtimes


all in all. once the film has started, if its frm food. you have a LONG battle ahead of u if u want to go the natural route and feed less.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> i will say this, cutting back food for a few days wont help much, i ran into that issue
> 
> the problem is. a fish stomach is basically a straight run through, they will avidly overeat if given the option. it pushes food out faster than its really. that smartest thing my LFS said is that a hungry fish is a healthy fish. this means that the overall tank conditions are easier to maintain. the excess poop is really the problem. ur fish will eat anything available and even pick it off the bottom, i saw my angels do it.
> 
> ...


I didn't think that a few days of not feeding would be the cure for it. I figured I had a battle on my hands to get rid of it...

I have noticed that my Angels and Tetras all have quite full/big stomachs, so I'm cutting back on feeding for the time being. I feeding my cory cats sinking pellets, but once and a while the Angels will chase it while it's sinking. I will try just placing it on the bottom of the tank and see how they do. Also will try placing bloodworms or other things on the bottom with a child's medicine dispenser. 

I do syphon my substrate once and a while as well to help with the poop build up, but I don't do a thorough cleaning as I have dirt under my florite and it helps as a fertilizer for the plants.




livingword26 said:


> I never could get rid of it in my tank, thats why I tried a Fluval surface skimmer. Love it.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Hagen-A240-Fluval-Surface-Skimmer/dp/B000256CGY


Now question for you about this... since I'm injecting CO2 into the tank, does this cause any surface agitation/breakage I should be worried about? I don't want to be losing CO2 if I don't have to...


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## ryc120 (Jan 17, 2012)

The only way I can keep mine at bay is with an airstone running at night. The fluval surface skimmer works, but its a pain to keep plant debris from clogging it up.


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

shinycard255 said:


> Now question for you about this... since I'm injecting CO2 into the tank, does this cause any surface agitation/breakage I should be worried about? I don't want to be losing CO2 if I don't have to...


The surface skimmer is totally adjustable. You an have barely a trickle running in it, to most of the water going into the filter, running through it. They say that you need surface agitation for good oxygen exchange, especially at night. I use it for that. So, not I dont think it will cause a co2 problem. And I have never had it clog up, but I dont have floating plants.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

Update... (somewhat)

Came home to a tank without surface scum on it... not sure if it will be there tomorrow or not, but we shall see


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## togified (Apr 24, 2012)

what did you do? ims tarting to get surface skum and bubbles forming.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

I increased surface agitation at night with putting tubing into the venturi of my powerhead. I also stopped feeding my fish. The surface agitation was over a months time and I just stopped feeding this week.

You could run an airstone at night when lights are off as well

Edit: I also cleaning my canister filter's tubing (which weren't done for about 5 months) so I'm sure that had a little something to do with it. I've done regular cleaning of my filter, but never the tubing. I guess it always batter to start late than never.


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## Jeff5614 (Dec 29, 2005)

An interesting related thread over on The Barr Report.
http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...than-others-and-why-some-folks-gas-their-fish


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

Jeff5614 said:


> An interesting related thread over on The Barr Report.
> http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...than-others-and-why-some-folks-gas-their-fish


Very interesting topic there. Well worth a read! Only skimmed through it this morning, but will read throughout the day when I have time


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## specks (Dec 25, 2010)

How about in non co2 tanks? Is it better to have less/no surface agitation to get as much co2 in the water?


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

specks said:


> How about in non co2 tanks? Is it better to have less/no surface agitation to get as much co2 in the water?


In non-CO2 tanks, get as much surface agitation as you want because you don't have to worry about the loss of CO2 due to surface agitation. You can even break the surface of the water to help with the scum. 

As mentioned before, running an airstone will help break it up. Feeding less will help (over time) as well because it comes from a protein build up. 

Read the whole thread from beginning to end because all this was covered...


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## specks (Dec 25, 2010)

I think you misunderstood me. I am not worried about surface scum. My question was regarding the link above. I was asking if it is beneficial to minimize surface agitation in non co2 setups to preserve as much co2 possible.


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

specks said:


> I think you misunderstood me. I am not worried about surface scum. My question was regarding the link above. I was asking if it is beneficial to minimize surface agitation in non co2 setups to preserve as much co2 possible.


My apologies, yes I did misunderstand

Yes you could minimize surface agitation to hold in what CO2 you have in the water from water changes, but I don't think you'd get much. I also add Excel into my low-tech tanks. Adding Excel is like adding fake CO2 into the tank. I forget what is all in it, but the chemical breaks down in a 24hr period so adding Excel daily would be advised. 

HTH, if not, someone else could hopefully chime in


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## livingword26 (Oct 28, 2010)

specks said:


> I think you misunderstood me. I am not worried about surface scum. My question was regarding the link above. I was asking if it is beneficial to minimize surface agitation in non co2 setups to preserve as much co2 possible.


I've seen a lot of debate, on whether fish created enough co2 that you need to try to keep it in the tank, or whether The plants use that little bit up so fast, that the lack of gas exchange at the surface causes a co2 shortage. To be honest, I have never seen any science either way. But I personally don't think that you will have enough co2, or oxygen in a non injected aquarium, without good gas exchange from the surface.


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## specks (Dec 25, 2010)

livingword26 said:


> I've seen a lot of debate, on whether fish created enough co2 that you need to try to keep it in the tank, or whether The plants use that little bit up so fast, that the lack of gas exchange at the surface causes a co2 shortage. To be honest, I have never seen any science either way. But I personally don't think that you will have enough co2, or oxygen in a non injected aquarium, without good gas exchange from the surface.


In this case I will try to minimize surface agitation in my tank as I have a wet-dry filter. For an 18 gallon, yes, I know its impractical but what the heck.

Even with little surface agitation, I dont get surface scum. Just a bit of dust but no oil slick on the surface.


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

specks said:


> I think you misunderstood me. I am not worried about surface scum. My question was regarding the link above. I was asking if it is beneficial to minimize surface agitation in non co2 setups to preserve as much co2 possible.


no its beneficial to have more, it adds c02.. it doesnt get there on its own.
fish dont add much either


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

specks said:


> In this case I will try to minimize surface agitation in my tank as I have a wet-dry filter. For an 18 gallon, yes, I know its impractical but what the heck.
> 
> Even with little surface agitation, I dont get surface scum. Just a bit of dust but no oil slick on the surface.


wet/dry's whole point is surface water to air contact time. even without the top of the tank having agitation. the filter is doing that for u..


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

And the scum is back...

Haven't been using the venturi in my powerhead at night either... wanted to see if it was gone by chance but nope...

I also started seeing surface scum in my new Evolve4. No food added either, just ammonia to cycle the tank. There is surface agitation in the Evolve4 as well...


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## BruceF (Aug 5, 2011)

I would just note that I have a whitish scum on the top of one of my tanks and that there are no fish and therefore no food goes into that tank at all. The tank does have a bad case of green water and there are numerous "bugs" living in it at the moment. I have been messing around with various ei concoctions in that tank trying to find a method of fighting the green water. The plants are doing fine. 
Check out the post on the bottom of this page. fwiw.

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/aquarium-plants/protein-film-filmy-surface-pics-99214/


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

plants release carbhydrates as well. that is a food source for many things


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## shinycard255 (Sep 15, 2011)

HD Blazingwolf said:


> plants release carbhydrates as well. that is a food source for many things


If it's not one thing, it's something else. I can never seem to win with this hobby :tongue: :hihi:


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## HD Blazingwolf (May 12, 2011)

yeah i just learned that one the other day while reading a book.
it makes sense as plants are primary producers in the food chain


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