# how do you mix EI dosing with water?



## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

so i'm looking at the EI dosing and it state dry ferts but how do you make a solution for the EI dosing in liquid form? just hate having to keep scooping one item at a time to does every day.... it gets really boring really fast lol....


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Bryanmc1988,

I used to mix my EI ferts with water but it was too much work and I found it to be unnecessary. Now I dose all of my EI ferts 'dry' except for the CSM+B which I dilute with water. 

I mix my CSM+B solution adding three (3) tablespoons of CSM+B in 500 ml of water. I dose 1 ml of solution per 10 gallons once a week.


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

you does CSM+B once a week? but doesnt EI sayed to does 3x a week?


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21944


also i have to dose 3 tanks with EI so mixing all the fertz every day is a pain in the A, it would be much faster to have a liquid then have it in a pump bottle wouldnt you agree?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Bryanmc1988,

I dose 3X a week. For example for my 75 gallon (60 gallons of water) I dose 2.0 ml three times a week.


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

so how did you come up with 3 Tbsp for 500 ml of water?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Bryanmc1988,

I use a program called Nutri-Calc V1.9.3 (note: link will allow you to download and save the executable Nutri-Calc program) which was developed by Quenton over at The Barr Report. Mixing my solution at that level, and dosing as I indicated allows me to add 0.1 Fe which is what I am targeting for my iron content. Actually it gives me the dosing levels for whatever tank / water volume I chose to enter. Hope this helps!


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

what are the level that a planted tank needs to be? this is a co2 injected medium lighting tank with heavily plants


wouldnt this website work the same as the program? http://calc.petalphile.com/


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi Bryanmc1988,

I use the following target nutrient levels (typically near the top of the ranges):
NO3 = 10-20 ppm
PO4 = 0.5 - 2.0 ppm
K = 10-20 ppm
Ca = 10-20 ppm
Mg = 2.0-5.0 ppm
Fe - 0.1 ppm

The calc.petalphile calculator gives results in milligrams and although I have a gram scale I don't want to weigh chemicals any more than necessary. I use a set of dash/ pinch/ smidgen/ nip/ (1/8 tsp; 1/16 tsp; 1/32 tsp; 1/64 tsp) spoons (available on Evilbay less than $10) so I prefer my calculations in teaspoons which the Nutri-Calc calculator provides. Also the Nutri-Calc calculator allows me to input my target ppm and it provides the dosing quantity in teaspoons. It is not perfect, it only provides calculations for the 'typical' dry ferts (KNO3; K2SO4; KH2PO4; MgSO4; CaSO4) and not the less common nutrients (for those I use the APC Fertilator). (BTW, I am currently dosing my Fe a little heavier than the calculator output due to a deficiency (chlorosis) I am having with my Microsorum pteropus 'Trident'.)

Here is the output from the Nutri-calc program for my 75 gallon









My tank has CO2 and is heavily planted as well which is why I dose the higher end of the nutrient ranges


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## Raymond S. (Dec 29, 2012)

I trhink the solution given already is the best one. I only give what I have as an alternative should it sound good to you. This link has a "Kit" which provides two 500ml bottles(both links do) and the dry ferts to go in them. They make a liquid which you dose instead of an individual nutrient dose so it's measured by them and just mixed with water by you.
The EI requires three doses of Macros on Mon./Wed./Fri. and three doses of Micros on
Tue./Thur./ Sat. and so does these. But at least you won't need to do each nutrient
individually any more.
On this one it's not quite down to the middle and called "EI Liquid ferts"...
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=506393&highlight=
And on this one it is called PPS pro fert pack(which is not EI)
http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquarium-fertilizer.html


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## TekWarren (Oct 6, 2013)

The easiest solution is to get a cheap pill organizer and measure the amount of each nutrient you need to dose daily and set it up for the week. No messing with water calculations, just dump and go each morning.


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

i found this quote on another thread which sounds to be a more easier to understand on mixing dry with water to make a solution, 

what are your thoughts on this? 
will it work? 
is it even right? 


Quote below...




> the easiest way to do a premixed fertilizer is to first decide how much liquid I want to dose at a time. That could be a syringe full, a cap full, or something like that. For example, in my case I wanted to dose 1 ounce per dose. Next, based on the size of the bottle, figure out how many of those doses are in the bottle. In my case it is a 16 oz bottle, so I have 16 doses in the full bottle. Next I calculate how many tsp of KH2PO4 I need per dose (for example). If it is 1/8 tsp, I multiply that by 16, and that is how much KH2PO4 I put in the bottle with 16 ounces of water. Now, my one ounce dose will contain the right amount of fert for one dose.


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

That's an easy way to create solutions if you already know your dry dose. Since you have more than one tank you may want a solution for all of them. Something like 1ml per ten gallons depending on the sizes of your tanks.

The online calculator you referenced does a nice job with solutions. You can select the result of my dose and use teaspoons as well. However, the teaspoon measures are incorrect at this time so don't rely on them. I have edited the calculator and waiting for the change to be posted.

If you give me the sizes of your tanks I would be happy to do the calculations for you until the calculator error is fixed.


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

sure thing... i have the following tanks

10g - about 10 gallons of water (including water in the canister filter)

20g long - about 20 gallons of water (including water in the canister filter)

40B - about 35 gallons of water (including water in the canister filter)


need to know how much of each dry ferts to be mixing with


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Add the following to 500ml containers. To reach full EI levels add 5ml per 10 gallons.


KNO3 9 teaspoons

KH2PO4 1 1/4 teaspoons

Plantex CSM + B 6 3/4 teaspoons

That should get you started. When the calculator measures are updated I would recommend learning to use that source of information. I can email you a copy of a Windows calculator I'm in the process of writing that does this. This portion of it is done. PM me if you want a copy.


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## TekWarren (Oct 6, 2013)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> i found this quote on another thread which sounds to be a more easier to understand on mixing dry with water to make a solution,
> 
> what are your thoughts on this?
> will it work?
> ...


It works great, I've dosed dry as long as I've been using ferts I know plenty of others do the same. I have 1 40b that gets full EI 6 days a week, a lower tech 20 that gets doses 4 days a week, and low tech nano (not really EI dosing) but dose a little CSM+B ever week...all dry dosing. I guess I don't really understand the reason to do the water solutions, always thought it was something to do with PPS method of dosing but I'm probably wrong. It just seems easier all around to dose dry using the chart. You can adjust as needed but the point is to have more than enough nutrients so it doesn't have to be exact.

I've always worked off the chart here which is linked to on Green Leaf Aquariums where I buy my ferts: http://www.aquascapingworld.com/mag...ne/Estimative-Index-Fertilization-Method.html


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

ok so i would like to know if i am doing this right or not here as it looks really weird to me 


so from following this 



> the easiest way to do a premixed fertilizer is to first decide how much liquid I want to dose at a time. That could be a syringe full, a cap full, or something like that. For example, in my case I wanted to dose 1 ounce per dose. Next, based on the size of the bottle, figure out how many of those doses are in the bottle. In my case it is a 16 oz bottle, so I have 16 doses in the full bottle. Next I calculate how many tsp of KH2PO4 I need per dose (for example). If it is 1/8 tsp, I multiply that by 16, and that is how much KH2PO4 I put in the bottle with 16 ounces of water. Now, my one ounce dose will contain the right amount of fert for one dose.



if i used a 500 ml pump bottle which each pump is 2ml... so i want to do a pump for each dosing which comes out to about "250" dose per 500ml bottle right? ok so to get each pump to the right amount of ferts say its 1/4 teaspoon per dosing which is 0.25 times that by 250 dose which would equal to "1/4 teaspoon" per pump, and by timing the 0.25 by 250 dose that i can get per 500ml bottle will equal to "62.5 teaspoons" of ferts for a 500ml bottle? is this right cause thats a lot of Fertz ....


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

You are doing the math correctly. However, 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallons is a very large dose. So that high dose "snowballs" when you multiply it times 250. That's one reason to use solutions for smaller tanks such as 10 gallons. Teaspoon measures are prone to error. 

If you want 2ml per dose (2ml per 10 gallons) and a 500ml container the amounts are listed below.

KNO3 22 1/4 teaspoons

KH2PO4 3 1/8 teaspoons

Plantex 16 3/4 teaspoons


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

well i was doing the math for a 35 gallon of water tank not for the 10gallon tank



so confused on how to use the fert calculator now... is there a step by step instructions on how to use it correctly? i'm not sure if i am using it correctly or how you came up with these Teaspoon amount to mix with the water


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Calculate for a 10 gallon tank using the Estimative index dosing method. Select solution instead of dry dosing. Enter 500ml for the container size and 2ml for the dose. Select the fertilizer you want to use and click calculate. This will give you a normal EI dose for a 10 gallon tank. To dose a 20 gallon use 2 doses, 30 gallons use three etc. I know it can be confusing at first but it will become quite boring after awhile.


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

another thing i am confused about is this here... i will explain what i did and what doesnt match up...


so i did this in my version below for a 500ml in 5 ml per dose



> the easiest way to do a premixed fertilizer is to first decide how much liquid I want to dose at a time. That could be a syringe full, a cap full, or something like that. For example, in my case I wanted to dose 1 ounce per dose. Next, based on the size of the bottle, figure out how many of those doses are in the bottle. In my case it is a 16 oz bottle, so I have 16 doses in the full bottle. Next I calculate how many tsp of KH2PO4 I need per dose (for example). If it is 1/8 tsp, I multiply that by 16, and that is how much KH2PO4 I put in the bottle with 16 ounces of water. Now, my one ounce dose will contain the right amount of fert for one dose.


500ml bottle at 5ml per dose = to 100 dose possible
fertz is 1/4 Tsp-KN03 
so i times 0.25 x 100(dose per bottle) = 25teaspoons of ferts per 500ml of water




but when i used the program it says i needed 31-1/8 teaspoons of KNO3

am i doing something wrong here?


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

I don't see how measuring a liquid amount is any easier than measuring a dry powder that you scoop out and drop in. No calculations required. I have 4 tanks that I dose and 3 are 75g or bigger and hi-tech. Takes about 2min tops.

To each their own I guess. How the simplest things can be made difficult amazes me sometimes. 

Sent with my Samsung S4 via Tapatalk


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

lol you can scoop out and dump in with is easy or make a mix solution and pump in what u need for 3 tanks xD


it seems to me like if i did my kno3 that 1 lb will last me about 7 months which is not bad... for doesing 3 tanks 3 times a week


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> lol you can scoop out and dump in with is easy or make a mix solution and pump in what u need for 3 tanks xD


My point exactly  but with no mixing bottles to buy or the headache you are going through just to "start". I started out your way without calculation problems and after 4yrs and many pounds of ferts later I settled on the method with less headache. Like I said, to each their own.

Sent with my Samsung S4 via Tapatalk


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

How fast do they desolved if dose dry or do they sit on the bottom of the tank?


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## greaser84 (Feb 2, 2014)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> How fast do they desolved if dose dry or do they sit on the bottom of the tank?


Most of the dry ferts make it to the bottom before they dissolve, but they dissolve pretty quickly once on the bottom, in my tanks they are fully dissolved in under 10mins. As long as you have good flow they will get distributed throughout the tank. I find it sooooo much easier to dose dry ferts straight to the tank. I went on ebay and bought "mini measuring spoons", they are perfect for small tanks.


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

I release mine directly in the flow of power heads and don't see them anymore in under a minute.

Sent with my Samsung S4 via Tapatalk


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

well flow is not an issue for me as you can only imagin a fluval fx5 on a 40B lol its like a tornado in there xD


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> but when i used the program it says i needed 31-1/8 teaspoons of KNO3
> 
> am i doing something wrong here?


There is that cumulative effect again. 1/4 tsp. (1,300mg) of KNO3 will raise NO3 to 6.02ppm. The target is 7.5ppm so there is 1.48ppm difference for each dose. The difference for a calculator is 319.7226mg per dose. Multiply that times 100 and the difference is 31972mg. Since KNO3 averages 5,200mg per teaspoon that's a difference of 6 1/8 teaspoons which is why the calculator reports a different value.


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

so what is more accurate? the program i assume ?



also how much iron 10% should i mix into a 500 ml with CSM+B?


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> so what is more accurate? the program i assume ?
> 
> also how much iron 10% should i mix into a 500 ml with CSM+B?


Yes, the calculator is more accurate. However, both doses you listed will work well. There is no need to be overly accurate.

A 2:1 ratio seems about right. Two parts Plantex and one part DTPA. Just calculate for a total iron of 0.5ppm per dose. So that would be 0.333ppm of iron via Plantex and 0.17ppm of iron via DTPA.

So in a 500ml container 2ml per 10 gallons that's

11 1/4 teaspoons of Plantex
3 3/4 teaspoons of DTPA 10%


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## MiSo (Oct 26, 2005)

i have an rimless aquarium, so i need to top it off with water everyday. so i mix dry ferts with water then add it to the aquarium.


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## bigbites (Mar 4, 2014)

Here is how I do it.. I have a small jar that I had cleaned out and keep under my tank.
I put the ferts into the jar and then fill it with aquarium water.

I think put the it on.. and shake it gently until the ferts are as dissolved as I can get them.. then I just pour back into the tank.

Easy peezy


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

i guess every one has their own ways of measuring out the ferts and dosing ways, SO what i am going to do is do what i know and see what happens lol


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## jrman83 (Nov 22, 2010)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> i guess every one has their own ways of measuring out the ferts and dosing ways, SO what i am going to do is do what i know and see what happens lol


lol, have you even figured out what that is yet? Didn't know if you got your amounts down yet or not?


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

ok so i have started my mixing and let me know if this is EI dosing worthy cause i just put them together xD


Micro - 500ml bottle
Bottle 1: Dosing 4ml 3x a week for 10g of water
KNO3 - 11-1/8 tsp
Kh2po4 - 1-1/2 tsp


Bottle 2: Dosing 6ml 3x a week for 10g of water
K2so4 - 8-1/4 tsp



Macro - 500ml bottle
Bottle 1: Dosing 4ml 3x a week for 10g of water
CSM+B - 8-1/2 tsp
Iron 10% - 2 tsp




so did i mix everything correctly?


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> ok so i have started my mixing and let me know if this is EI dosing worthy cause i just put them together xD
> 
> 
> Micro - 500ml bottle
> ...


You probably don't need to use K2SO4. The KNO3 and KH2PO4 will provide 5.3ppm of potassium. This is usually enough. If you want the full EI dose (7.5ppm) just add enough to account for the difference of 2.2ppm. The K2SO4 solution would be 3 1/2 tsp. for 2.2 ppm. However, I have never seen it be necessary.

You also probably do not need that much Plantex if using DTPA iron. You want to target a TOTAL iron of 0.5ppm per dose. At a ratio of 2 parts Plantex to 1 part DTPA. That will be...

Plantex 5 1/2 teaspoons (0.333ppm)
DTPA 10% Iron 2 teaspoons (0.17ppm)

To calculate for those levels in my calculator change the concentration edit box to those levels and click calculate.

Otherwise, everything looks good other than reversing the macro and micro. Micro is the Plantex & iron mix


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

is it bad that i already have this mixed? will it cost any problems for me?


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> is it bad that i already have this mixed? will it cost any problems for me?


Not at all! No worries. It's just a little more than necessary. You can always use 3ml for the micros if it worries you. However, it shouldn't cause any problems.


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

well for the micro there is 2 bottles... 1 is a po4 and no3 mix together and the 2nd bottle is just so4 alone... so the bottle 1 i dose 4ml and for the bottle 2 i dose 6ml



whats should the dosing amount be?


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> well for the micro there is 2 bottles... 1 is a po4 and no3 mix together and the 2nd bottle is just so4 alone... so the bottle 1 i dose 4ml and for the bottle 2 i dose 6ml
> 
> 
> 
> whats should the dosing amount be?


Your solutions are fine. You don't even need bottle 2 (K2SO4). However, if you want to add a little extra just use 2ml per dose instead of 6ml. That will account for the missing potassium. Remember the other nutrients, primarily KNO3, provide sufficient potassium.


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

ok so i should only use 2ml instead of the 6.... but how come the calculator says to use that amount i mix for 6ml?


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> ok so i should only use 2ml instead of the 6.... but how come the calculator says to use that amount i mix for 6ml?


Because you are targeting for the total EI dose of potassium. KNO3 provides 60% of the total potassium needed. That is something I want to address in the calculator. Make a running total that sums all the elements so others won't become confused. I know it's confusing but that's how it works. Other nutrients add more than one element. We have to account for those. Does this make sense?


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

it does but what are the elements we need to target for EI dosing per dose 3x a week?


i think its also a good idea when selecting the dosing method for EI that you show a list of what elements it needs to reach for so people like me knwo what we should aim for when mixing


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## DefStatic (Feb 19, 2013)

Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Hi Bryanmc1988,
> 
> I mix my CSM+B solution adding three (3) tablespoons of CSM+B in 500 ml of water. I dose 1 ml of solution per 10 gallons once a week.


Curious, why do you dose your CSM+B this way? I do it dry with all my other ferts. Is this not recommended?


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I do it with a spoon:thumbsup:


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## Bryanmc1988 (Apr 3, 2012)

i hear this a lot, but i didnt want to keep pulling each dry ferts out and having to scoop little out of each every day.... its better for me to put it into a pump bottle and water it down


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## riverrat (Jul 14, 2005)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> i hear this a lot, but i didnt want to keep pulling each dry ferts out and having to scoop little out of each every day.... its better for me to put it into a pump bottle and water it down


By all means then make a solution. What do you want to dose? 10 kno3 .....1.3 p04 and a little more potassium? 

Just figure out the dry dosage multiply by 20 add to 500ml of water and shake.
Does 25ml 3 times a week until gone and then mix up some more. Not to complicated if you are dosing E.I. Co2 is far more of a problem for many depending on how much light they are using.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but have you found a nutrient calc. to use?

Good Luck,
Dave


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## TekWarren (Oct 6, 2013)

Bryanmc1988 said:


> i hear this a lot, but i didnt want to keep pulling each dry ferts out and having to scoop little out of each every day.... its better for me to put it into a pump bottle and water it down



I suggested to you days ago to get a pill organizer and measure out the dry dosage for each day. That way your not "burdened" with scooping every day. Your making EI more complicated than it needs to be.


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