# Algae problems



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Most of what you posted looks good, so a few more details are necessary:

1) Are you using a 4DKH solution in the drop checker?
2) What is the distance between the PC bulbs and the substrate?
3) What is your photoperiod?
4) What fish and other fauna do you have in the tank?
5) Can you post a picture of the black/green algae?


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

> 1) Are you using a 4DKH solution in the drop checker?
> 2) What is the distance between the PC bulbs and the substrate?
> 3) What is your photoperiod?
> 4) What fish and other fauna do you have in the tank?
> 5) Can you post a picture of the black/green algae?


1. Im using 4dkh solution
2. distance is about 20 inches
3. Photoperiod is 10am till 7pm, 9 hrs thought it was 8.
4. Fish is angel fish, siemese algae eater and a few ottos not sure how many only see them once in a blue moon. I have Ambulia not sure if its asian or red, willow leaf hygro, and some type of crypt, and java moss on a piece of drift wood.
5. I'll get a picture of the black algae tomorrow when I can get a camera.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

on crypt.









green dust after 5 days









brownish algae









black algae?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

This doesn't appear to be a simple case, so I will run down every possibility I can think of, no matter how remote.



latchdan said:


> 2. distance is about 20 inches
> 3. Photoperiod is 10am till 7pm, 9 hrs thought it was 8.


I've never used and am not terribly familiar with PC lighting, so I had to look up a few things.

First, from this thread, I see that a single 36W AHS PC light gives about 40 PAR at 20" from the substrate.

A 55W PC is longer, so the PAR at the substrate should be virtually the same. Given your tank dimensions of 30-1/4" x 12-1/2" x 22-3/4", and that you have two PC lights, you probably have them in this orientation, side-by-side:










Which doubles your PAR to 80, the lower threshold of high light.

A nine hour photoperiod isn't excessive, and barring any unusual PC quirks I may be unfamiliar with, neither is your intensity; but as GSA/GDA on the glass can be a symptom of excessive intensity or photoperiod, I'd suggest going ahead and bumping it down to eight.



latchdan said:


> 1. Im using 4dkh solution


Great. Between this, yellow-green drop checker color, and your pH controller, I think we can disqualify CO2 as an issue.

You're using EI dosing for 20-40G high light and heavily planted tanks, plus some extra iron. This should be more than enough macros/micros to disqualify any deficiencies in these nutrients.

Given your tapwater parameters of 12°KH and 10°GH, and after dilution with RO water down to 7°KH, there should be plenty of GH left. However, we don't know what that GH is from. Normally I'd expect a healthy ratio of calcium and magnesium, but it would be nice to know for sure. Can you get a water report from your city that lists this?

Tapwater so high in mineral content may also contain high levels of other things, like phosphate. I've seen enough reports from people who had high tapwater phosphate levels to believe that in some cases, it acts quite differently than the phosphate we dose, inducing algae whereas KH2P04 will not. Have you tested your tapwater for phosphate? Since you already have an RO unit, it might be a worthwhile experiment to try doing water changes with it alone, using a GH Booster to bring your GH back up.



latchdan said:


> 4. Fish is angel fish, siemese algae eater and a few ottos not sure how many only see them once in a blue moon.


Only the angel fish worth considering here. If you have a lot of them and they're fed heavily, then in combination with dosing EI for a heavily planted tank when it's only moderately planted, you may have excessive nitrates. I ran into this problem, at 140ppm nitrates I had symptoms of insufficient phosphates (despite them being at 30ppm), uncontrollable GSA/GDA, and plant stunting. If you believe this is a possibility, a nitrate test may be in order.



latchdan said:


> 5. I'll get a picture of the black algae tomorrow when I can get a camera.


A nice little potpourri of algae. :hihi: A full tank shot would be beneficial too, so we can see the extent and locations, which may reveal additional possibilities.

Some of this looks quite unusual, and I suspect a lot of it is in part BGA. It comes in a variety of forms and colors, not just the most commonly encountered blue-green. And it can form symbiotic relationships with various algae, which can further change its appearance, or even totally mask it. Symbiosis with GDA is fairly well documented, and if BGA is involved, killing it alone leads to the decline of the GDA. BGA is also notorious for altering its own environment to make it hospitable to algae, regardless of your attempts to correct it. I would suggest a thorough manual cleanup to remove as much algae as you can, followed by treatment with erythromycin.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

I just trimmed a bunch of the plants and threw away parts that were covered in algae. I definitely need some more fast growing plants.

I'll have to get a phosphate test kit and nitrate, mine are either out of code or I ran out. I will also have to see what information I can get about the city water. Although, I do have GH booster and can use straight RO and booster if that could possibly help.


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## JoraaÑ (Jun 29, 2009)

Seems your problem is too much light and less co2...Cut your photoperiod to 6 hours or increase Co2 to max...


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

> Seems your problem is too much light and less co2...Cut your photoperiod to 6 hours or increase Co2 to max...


I can decrease the photo period but I'm weary on increasing co2 more, I've had my fish gasping for air before. Should I add an air stone?

I was under the impression that my lights were not in the high range because I couldn't grow foreground plants (HC/glosso/ ricca(as a mat). I've tried them numerous times and they either get leggy or wilt away.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

> Given your tapwater parameters of 12°KH and 10°GH, and after dilution with RO water down to 7°KH, there should be plenty of GH left. However, we don't know what that GH is from. Normally I'd expect a healthy ratio of calcium and magnesium, but it would be nice to know for sure. Can you get a water report from your city that lists this?


I looked up the city water and this is what the website said.
calcium in ppm 24-130
magnesium in ppm 16-46

I don't no what is normal or what.

Also if i go pure RO with using GH booster should I also add baking soda to keep my kh up?


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

latchdan said:


> I looked up the city water and this is what the website said.
> calcium in ppm 24-130
> magnesium in ppm 16-46


Even at the lower ranges, and diluted with RO water as you've been doing, that's adequate.



latchdan said:


> Also if i go pure RO with using GH booster should I also add baking soda to keep my kh up?


kH is carbonate hardness. Some GH Boosters contain CaCO3, or other ingredients with CO3 (carbonate), and will raise your kH as well. Others will not, and you'll have to use baking soda. Check the ingredients and instructions of whichever Booster you plan to use.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

I have Seachem equilibrium


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## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

latchdan said:


> I have Seachem equilibrium


That one doesn't raise kH.


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## Low_t Tom (Jan 23, 2013)

Get some of these..

http://www.azgardens.com/p-222-nerite-snail-algae-eating-olive-nerite-snail.aspx


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Wanted to give an update on the algae problem since its been about 5 more days. I've reduced photo period to 6 hours. 3 hrs on 1 hour off 3 hours on.

I've started dosing excel for the past 3 days.

This is same spot of the glass as the previous GDA was.










Another focusing on the plants rather then glass, harder to see the algae in this one. 










It is improving quite a bit but its still there. Next week I'm going to see if i can get some more plants, its a far drive so gotta wait mid week.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Low_t Tom said:


> Get some of these..
> 
> http://www.azgardens.com/p-222-nerite-snail-algae-eating-olive-nerite-snail.aspx


I was a fish store today and they had snails labeled zebra snails. I asked if they were nerite snails and he said yes. I have a pic but im on my phone. How many should I get . They are 2.00 a piece


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## Low_t Tom (Jan 23, 2013)

I have 30 in a 75G Tank.


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## fjord (Feb 1, 2011)

Buy them online, they are much cheaper.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

fjord said:


> Buy them online, they are much cheaper.


Yeah I was cruising aquabid and found a seller in orange county... like 4 hours from me but I have family near that area. Selling a wide array of nerite snails ranging from 10 for $12 to 10 for $22. Says pickup welcome might go get some next time I'm visiting family.


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## AlanLe (Jan 10, 2013)

Did you get rid of the algae problem?


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

AlanLe said:


> Did you get rid of the algae problem?


Yes and no. The green dust algae for the most part decreased, I am thinking thanks to reducing photo period. (6 hours)

Although, since I started this post I have moved and I had to drain the tank and refill and I'm having an outbreak of brown diatom algae. Its brown and looks hairy. I am pretty sure its diatom because when I grab it and rub it between my figures it just disolves.

I'm researching how to get rid of it but from what I have read it will go away on its own, but that is in new set ups. Only explanation for it is I caused a mini cycle when moving the tank since the filter was off for an extended period of time. I am doing 50% water changes twice a week with RO water adding seachem equilibrium and baking soda to get 4 degrees kh and 4 degrees GH. (which is what the tank is about)

I'll see if I can get a picture of what the tank looks with the new algae and the added plants I have got.

Oh also forgot I have got new phosphate and nitrate test kit and they are showing some high numbers so I have stoped dosing nitrate and phosphate. Nitrate was around 40 and phosphate was around 5+. I also calibrated the test kits and they seem accurate. (thanks to hoppy http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83545&highlight=calibration+solutions)

I have also added 2 zebra nerite snails and 1 tri colored horned nerite. May get more in the future but is all they had when I went and looked.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Update:
Here is that brown diatom algae I think.



























Full tank pic, it looks good if you don't look real close.










I'm not sure what I should do to get rid of this algae. I've reduced trace to 1/32 teaspoon, and stopped adding macros since nitrate is now 20ppm after 50% water change and phosphates are around 2ppm after water change.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

To help fight this algae problem and maybe help the plants grow could I add some Excel? I have a bottle and haven't been using it for a while. I know it melts some plants vals and I've hard anacharis. Would it be okay if i dosed a lower dosage maybe every other day or somthing like that? For instance I would normally dose 3ml a day could I do 1.5ml a day or 3ml every other day? Skipping the initial dose of course. Or are these plants super sensitive and any would melt them?

I have contortionist vals and I remember years ago I killed them with excel before I knew better. But it seems like a waste to have this excel just sitting around.


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Bump


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## Dx3Bash (Jan 9, 2013)

Excel will help control many types of algae. I use it in my heavily planted aquarium in conjunction with pressurized CO2. Are you EI dosing? If so, don't forget the VERY IMPORTATN 50% water change weekly. After the water change dose 1 capful of Excel per 10 gallons (as instructed on the bottle), then dialy dosage following instructions. I have corkscrew val in my aquarium and they are doing just fine with the excel.


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

I'm having some big algae problems in my 75g since I redid it. I'm just using DIY C02 and quite a bit of Metricide. I purposely haven't added any vals or moss to this tank for that very reason. 
I've got 6 Nerites in here as well. Going to be adding some Oto's shortly. 
Your tank doesn't look bad at all. Personally I'm all or nothing. I would take out anything that Excel will kill and start dosing it pretty good until your plant mass catches up OR add a good amount of additional plant mass. 
Personally I determine how heavily my tanks will be planted based on the point when I have zero algae.


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## Low_t Tom (Jan 23, 2013)

I have 20 of them in my 75G and I hardley notice them. They come out mostly at night. The problem I have now is to have enough algae for them to eat!


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## latchdan (Sep 7, 2007)

Dx3Bash said:


> Excel will help control many types of algae. I use it in my heavily planted aquarium in conjunction with pressurized CO2. Are you EI dosing? If so, don't forget the VERY IMPORTATN 50% water change weekly. After the water change dose 1 capful of Excel per 10 gallons (as instructed on the bottle), then dialy dosage following instructions. I have corkscrew val in my aquarium and they are doing just fine with the excel.


I am doing 50% water changes twice a week. I have also modified my EI dosing by cuting potassium nitrate to 1/8 teaspoon, and cut out adding phosphates. I must have a lot of decaying plant mass because it doesn't go down at all unless I do a water change while the nitrates are being used up.

The diatoms if anything are getting worse rather then better I just want to correct what I can before it gets out of control. I added a lot of plants some died off one being myro I believe it was labed as foxtail at the fish shop. The only two plants that have noticible growth is the amazon sword and the ambulia. 
Just did a 50% water changed nitrates were at 5ppm so dosed 1/8 potasium nitrate. Phosphates were around 2-3ppm so adding nothing. added 1/16 teasponn potassium sulfate and 3ml of seachem iron.

I might add some excel too drop checker is yellow ( surface agitation provided by an aquaclear 50 and spray bar is turned up a little on rena xp1)


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## water-kitties (Mar 19, 2013)

latchdan said:


> Update:
> Here is that brown diatom algae I think.
> 
> 
> ...


I had a lot of this algae when I got a new canister on my 25g. It has been going down some but I think I might need to raise my light up some how after reading this since I've tried adjusting my ferts/co2 around to no avail. Two 30 inch T5HO, 6500k Daylight and a Giesemann Powerchrome Aquaflora. EI dosing and CO2. Seems to have lessened a bit since I swapped a 6500k for the aquaflora though. Maybe a spectrum swap will help after all?


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