# Baby otto`s



## Eden Marel (Jan 28, 2010)

Wow that is a fat otto but don't tell her I said that. Great job!


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

I wont tell her, :icon_lol: she and her friend are even bigger now just had that pic on the pc allready.
cheers.


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## tuffgong (Apr 13, 2010)

Great shots!! Are the females noticeably bigger than the males before she fills up with eggs?


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## J.farrand (Jul 12, 2010)

I've had plenty of females that fat but never noticed babies. Did you have to do anything special to aid in the ottocinclus baby making process?


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

tuffgong said:


> Great shots!! Are the females noticeably bigger than the males before she fills up with eggs?


Thanks.
mine were, their bellys had a slightly bigger silver tummy then they balloned out also they were/are darker than the males.


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

Please share all tips you have on breading!!!! I want to breed these guys so bad but I can't get a good stock to even get started. What are you water params, temp, lighting? Do you let the temp drop a bit when you do water changes? How many did you start with? 

Please help me get started. It seems like the breeders of this species are few and far between and the lfs around here it's to reliable. I'm hoping next time I will get a good stock and get a lot of them. Last time I went there they were feeding on a dead molly; which can't be a good sign so I didn't get any. 

Also any tips on picking out healthy stock besides picking the fatter ones?


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Ok, here goes,
PH 7.2
nitrite 0
nitrate 5
temp is normally 76 to 77
running 2 x t8 on a 350 ltr 4 ft tank, thats 12 months old but seeded from an mature tank.

go for the ones with the biggest bellys as the will be more healtly and should survive when introduced to a new tank, lots die soon after buying them.
the females should be bigger in all ways when young.
i was experimenting with waterchanges at a lower temp, i bought the temp down to around 72f ( thats the fresh water not the tank ) and nothing happened that i no of but i read that moonlight cycles can induce breeding in most fish so i got 72 leds with adjustable brightness.
i had them on full power and the powered them down gradulary.
and thats all i can tell you as i stopped trying due to the corys breeding like mad. had 4 now 36, so bought a new tank and will be continuing my research when it is cycled.

just make sure you dont have fish that wont tollerate low temps.

hope this may help you some how and good luck. :icon_smil


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

Thanks for the information!

The only thing that seems different is the pH. Mine runs about 6.7-6.8. 

I run blue LED's on my tank all night so that may help. My temp. is around 78F.

When you say "just make sure you dont have fish that wont tollerate low temps." how low are we talking?


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

No probs.
I would not go below 72f i allways add cold water to my tank but make sure it dont drop to much, it will soon heat up again and dont bother my fish, aim for a 4f drop at changing.
You are one step ahead on the Ph as below 7 is better, thats my next experiment.
i have mine on allnight to so turning them of might start them, mine spawned early the next day, so keep alook out.


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

I'll have to try as soon as I get some more. Any idea on how many otos I should have to get them to bread? I have a 72 gallon planted tank but they will first be in a 10 gallon quarantine tank for a while. I had eight last time and the last one just died two days ago. That one was only about 2-3 weeks olds in my tank.


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## sewingalot (Oct 12, 2008)

Thank you so much for the valuable insight on breeding these guys. If people can start breeding these, maybe we could get some hardier ottos in the future. Oh, and congratulations on the new fish!


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

jmowbray said:


> I'll have to try as soon as I get some more. Any idea on how many otos I should have to get them to bread? I have a 72 gallon planted tank but they will first be in a 10 gallon quarantine tank for a while. I had eight last time and the last one just died two days ago. That one was only about 2-3 weeks olds in my tank.


i bought 6, 2 female and 4 male but they went straight into the tank no quaritine as it would just add more stress when moving again.
they are in a 77 gallon, heres their tank.
if they get to 6 weeks old they should be ok.
aculuminate them for 2 hours min to allow them to adjust fully and slowly. :icon_smil


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

sewingalot said:


> Thank you so much for the valuable insight on breeding these guys. If people can start breeding these, maybe we could get some hardier ottos in the future. Oh, and congratulations on the new fish!


No poblem, your right and they do get a hard time, on you tube there is a vid showing how their caught in the wild and im not surprised most die poor little things, i wont buy them again because of that.
cheers.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Oh yer i took a picture of the tube, i never noticed it before they layed so it must be something that develops when their ready.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

holy cow, that oto is a beast. Thanks for the tips on breeding them. Do you feed them any special other then algae?


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## vca2004 (Sep 7, 2009)

That's a good picture! Congratulations on your baby Otos! What do you feed them? How long have you had them?


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

VadimShevchuk said:


> holy cow, that oto is a beast. Thanks for the tips on breeding them. Do you feed them any special other then algae?


Your welcome, 
they like tetra varitery wafers and algae wafers, i do feed live food every couple of days.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

dont know what i did there but i doubled posted some how.
they do put on weight and size quickly went they are breeding.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

vca2004 said:


> That's a good picture! Congratulations on your baby Otos! What do you feed them? How long have you had them?


the adults were around 6 months for when i bught them from lfs so i guess they were around 18 months old going on the size of the babys, their 7 months and still not half the size of the parents.


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## keithy (Jun 8, 2010)

wow, this is the first time I come accross someone breeding otto's. great job! I am happy and excited for you. Thank you very much for sharing the tips on breeding them with us here.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks and no problem
i will be updating this soon as i have some other things i need to retry and test.
im not giving everything away just yet as i want to see if anyone trys these things with a positive outcome. 
i need to get an algae build up in my new tank and then im adding the babys on their own. cheers.


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## shane3fan (Nov 2, 2009)

Not to hijack your thread but I think I may have a preggers oto also. We are moving and I hadnt been in the old house ( where the tanks are ) since last Friday--got there to see this ;


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Nice one, shes getting there.
keep a eye on them and you might see the male chasing her.


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## shane3fan (Nov 2, 2009)

I guess the term isnt 'pregnant' its 'gravid' is that correct?


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## shane3fan (Nov 2, 2009)

Went home last night to find the otto-----dead. Have no idea what happened.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Manny, I've been breeding O. Vittatus for just over a year now here across the pond. I'd like to compare notes about you harvesting the eggs and putting them in a fry net.

Have some fry and eggs in one of my breeders as I type.

I'm still working on increasing the survival rates of the fry. I've reared somewhere over 100 at this point. But would greatly love to increase that number.

James


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

*Here's a couple shots from me*

This one was taken today. Just a few days old.









This one is by far my favorite. Freshly hatched fry just a couple hours old.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

shane3fan said:


> Went home last night to find the otto-----dead. Have no idea what happened.


sorry for your loss, she looked very healthy, strange. how old was she?


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Hi james, great photos.
by the sound of it i can learn alot from you and you are probely doing everything right.
i know when i breed the corys some died at a month old and everything was the same.
i collect the eggs as soon as i see them and leave them on the leafs, i have a floating breeding trap that i left in the tank so its got algae on it ready for the eggs, i then add crushed algae wafers and tetra variety wafers but suck the left overs out next day with a pipete or sringe. also i add a few leafs so there is some boi film for them.
they stay in it till they are 2 months old then i put them in a tank on their own till big.
hope this is some help.
how do you get them spawning?
cheers.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm getting ready to build out a couple fry habitats. Have more ideas I'd like to hash around. Seems that the breeding thing is second nature now for them. Now it's up to me to successfully rear the fry.

As for the spawing, to be honest, absolutely no clue at all! This little project of mine has been going on for over a year. I can truely say that I have changed so many parameters during this time and still got spawns. 

Even tanks where I'm not doing anything with them, they spawn. For example, my holding tank where I'm keeping the juvies and sub adults. Some are breeding age and they are breeding in there as well.

These are some of the eggs I just found in that tank yesterday.










Everything from lowering/raising temp, lowering/raising pH, fluctuating photo period, addition of CO2 (which I still use on most tanks), colder water for water changes, spring water for water changes, fert dosing, substrate, mixture of flora. Those are just several of the things I've toyed with.

I'm now chalking it up to the plain simple fact that they are "comfortable" in their environment. ;o)

I'm still working with my little guys. Tons of data to sift through.


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## shane3fan (Nov 2, 2009)

manntetra said:


> sorry for your loss, she looked very healthy, strange. how old was she?


she was about 6 months old I guess.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Cool, your lucky to have them doing that so much and with out intervining, thats how i was hopeing would happen but its only when i change something.
did you just happen to have them do it or were you trying?
what PH are your tanks?
to be honest mine might be doing it but the corys are laying everywere and every day so i might be missing the eggs, and i dont see them much as the tanks so planted, they love the swords.
you are the only other person i have come across that has been successfull, so maybe bettween us we might find something important to getting babys.
cheers.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

shane3fan said:


> she was about 6 months old I guess.


that is strange.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

Thanks for sharing. With the ottos I've had I've just thought that unless you can get them to eat food you offer they'll not last long in the tank. The group I have now is well aware of the sinking pellets and algae wafers I feed them. Some in the past only seemed interested in what natural foods they could find. I've noticed several fairly fat ones lately but not sure I be able to find any eggs in the tank even if they did lay.

Wonder what the life expectancy in the wild is factoring out predation?


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Mine would chase the female around the tank while she looked for somewere to lay so i watched and collected that way.
mine eat wafers for about 4 months and now they dont bother with them.
there are some good vids on you tube showing them in the wild and they look a good size so i would think good.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

It can be a sight to see. Especially when you have 1 lady being bombarded by 4-5 guys.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

manntetra said:


> what PH are your tanks?


I'll try and pull some numbers today for the most current readings but may not be until later this weekend. Hatching should be today in the morning for the most part. I don't do any work in the tanks during this time. 

I'm just an observer for a couple days. Wigglers are a joy to watch after the two day mark.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

James no rush as im just gathering some thoughts before i start again in the new tank so anything you can add would be great.
its quite amazing and how they quickly change from wigglers to perfert mini replica`s.
thanks and good luck.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

What i have found (for me at least) is the first week is critical. Most losses are here. After the second week, i would say chances go up to 75%. i haven't lost any after the three week mark.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Hey manny..any recent news?

My latest round of fry are hangin in there. If my numbers are right, I'm around 50% with these last two hatchings.


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## bsmith (Jan 8, 2007)

Great thread, keep up the good work!


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Hi James, nothing of help in that side as i cant get a algae build up in the new tank i might chuck some gravel in for them. but on a good note it looks like i got a female and male from the last lot, one is alot bigger tho still only a 3rd of a fully grown adult.
i might try lowering this new tank to a ph of les that 7 and see if it stays that way and if so i will slowly drop the breeding tank down to that level before swapping over.
only thing that i have read up on that i have not tryied yet.
nice to hear things are going well your side, 50% sounds good to me, well done mate.
any more eggs?
cheers.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

thanks bsmith


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thx B...

Here are the results of water tests today:









Not quite time for mama to lay another batch. Going by the trends, she may be ready next week.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

I woke up to find a baby stuck in the filter inlet, head first, not moving so i pulled it out gently and it swam straight to the side, its lost alittle colour on its head but seems ok.
filter is no gone and think i will get them in the new tank.
nice one for the results, was not expecting such a high ph, i was at 7.2 i think.
thanks james.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Manny, may I suggest a pre-filter over the intake? AC 10 and 20 sponges work great. I use them on all my Oto and shrimp tanks. They can safely work it over without getting sucked in or trapped.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Of course mate, thanks for the tip. i could do that but not sure if its worth it now as im shutting that tank down after the move.
i could put some sponge around it tho.
i will go see what i have got.
cheers.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Found more eggs in the holding tank yesterday. Here's a few of them.


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## Nue (Dec 27, 2009)

Very neat guys! Im Jealous!


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Nice one james, whats that 20 days between laying?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Hard to say with this batch. They are in my holding tank which has about 20 juvies and adults left in it.


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Have you guys tried breeding zebra ottos ? I think with the info here I'm going to setup a species tank for them and try to work with them.how many should I get to make them comfortable and spawn?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

problemman said:


> Have you guys tried breeding zebra ottos ? I think with the info here I'm going to setup a species tank for them and try to work with them.how many should I get to make them comfortable and spawn?


I do have a O. Cocoma tank set up but unfortunately, I have all males. :icon_conf

I'll be placing another order before the cold weather comes in to increase the stock. Hopefully have some females in the next bunch.

Start out with around (6) until you can determin the sex. Then as a beginner aim for 2 males to 1 female.


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

James where do you order your Otos. from?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

The only ones I've ordered where the Cocama's. I got them from AnubiasDesign.com. Waiting for them to come available on the export list again.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

You have them laying in both tanks then?


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Yep


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Here's some more I thought I'd share with you. This tank has just went bizerk with fry and eggs. In this pic you will see a ton of eggs on the glass of all places. Also in the pic is a fry that is only a couple days old. Just below these (out of frame) are wigglers that just hatched. Amazing at what is going on in here.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

OMG, they are happy in your tank if they are laying on the glass. great photo.:icon_smil
how many females are in that tank? as there is alot of eggs.
you doing something right, wow.
what you going to do with all these babys?

think i need to buy some more as i cant find my 4 males in the main tank, mums been out and about a few times in the last few nights and she is massive now.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

I have no clue as to the exact number in this tank. There is one pretty big Java Fern in there that has become their refuge. I'll catch them doing laps around the tanks in the early morning hours before the lights come on.

I recently sold most of them. I'm getting ready to sell some more to make room for the juvies in the main tank.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Cool, think i need to replicate your tank.
ive had my lights on for 15 hours a day and am starting to get algae on the glass, planning on moving my babys over at the wk end.
with a lot of luck i might get some eggs soon.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Sounds good. Keep us posted.

I was going to remove the fern at one point due to it taking up almost half the tank. I don't think I can really do that now. This appears to be a major eggs laying ground. I find some on the other plants on the other side of the tank, but judging by the fry appearing, it's not as near in quantity as the fern.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Thought I would share this little diddy with you guys. This one particular tank has just been non stop for the past week or so. Today was definately no exception. Eggs all over and spawing continuing.

Wanted to share this video:

It's a double spawn. Watch it *HERE*


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## problemman (Aug 19, 2005)

Sweet!


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Cool, they are competing alot to.
great vid, cheers.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Fresh from this morning: (teaser pic)










Spawn is continuing. Right now I only saw one female with probably ever male in the tank after her. Poor gal.


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

nice to hear all is well in your tank.
sounds like what happens with my corys, i have 3 females and 30 plus male chasing them.
i moved my 2 young ones in to the new tank about 14 days ago they were very active but they have gone into hiding the last few days and i thinned out my main tank as i only ever see 2 out of 5 and could only find 3.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Let's play a game.....how many babies can you count?

CountTheOtos

:biggrin:


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

More spawing going on right now in the holding tank.


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## irbenson (Jun 14, 2010)

nice ottos
what do you feed the adults and fry?


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

wow, they look well cool, nice one.
wish my tank was busy like that.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

irbenson said:


> what do you feed the adults and fry?


I feed Ken's feeds and fresh zucchini. For the fry, I grind up the flakes and pellet's into a fine powder. Mix with water and pour over the plants.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

And another spawn on tap for today. 41 eggs at the moment but 6 are not viable. Here's a little shot from today. Seems the Bacopa is the hot spot right now. But there are a few on the Java Fern which could actually be more.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Major spawn in the holding tank today. Massive amount of eggs all over the tank.

Here are some shots from today:

Here's some eggs on a couple of small crypt plants:


















Eggs on the sand (yellow balls):









And here is a shot of newly hatched fry with new eggs below:


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## Aubzilla (Mar 2, 2008)

That tank is Otto Orgy Land!


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Have they fallen or are they laying on the sand?
how long are they taking to hatch?
i found 2 eggs today in the corner were the ottos spend most of there time.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

Not really sure to be honest. All I can say is that they are everywhere. They take two days to hatch out.

Awesome on the eggs....I take it they are from your Oto's?


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## manntetra (Feb 18, 2010)

Cool. 2 days, well mine are gone in about the same time. :icon_smil
must be otto eggs as the 4 baby corys would not fit in the gap and they are only 5 months old.


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## whizzle (May 12, 2010)

I know this thread is old but I have a question for james and manntetra. When your ottos started to breed were there other fish breeding in the tank with them? I have heard that can be a trigger and I hope to test it soon.


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

whizzle said:


> When your ottos started to breed were there other fish breeding in the tank with them? I have heard that can be a trigger and I hope to test it soon.


No other fish in the tanks for me. Other Fauna include shrimp and Briggs though.


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## whizzle (May 12, 2010)

Thanks. I'm trying to get all the info I can on breeding these fish.


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## johnny313 (Apr 15, 2011)

I have a question that might have been answered already.... what are you doing with all of the babies????


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## james0816 (Jun 26, 2008)

I find new homes for them.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Too bad your so far away I need 10 or 15 for my tank, btw that's a really cool shot of the fat mommy, good job on the breeding.


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## Cab123 (May 13, 2011)

PGH....
they will breed like mad


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