# ADA Amozonia, ammonia, cloudiness, and water hardness



## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

Day 3: ammonia around 1ppm. Ended up doing a complete water change (wanted some pictures without the cloudiness)
Day 4: ammonia 0.5ppm. Clarity was much improved. I could easily see all the way across the 36" tank. Didn't bother with a water change
Day 5 (today): ammonia 0.5ppm. Clarify a bit better than Day 4. Just did a 50% water change.

I'm starting to suspect that the ammonia leaching has stopped, but my beneficial bacteria took a big hit with all the water changes and filter disruptions, so they aren't really doing much. They had been used to 78 degree water with 8.0 pH. The first water change dropped the water to 64 degrees and 7.3 pH. It's pretty much has stayed there, partly because my water heater is busted so I haven't bothered heating it. I think I might start adding ammonia soon to help get it fully cycled again.

Chris


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## parkman7 (Dec 28, 2008)

I tested some of the ADA Amazonia in a 22Liter. I have very hard water, and PH of 7.5 from the tap. No problem with cloudiness for me, just have a sponge filter. I have only done 3 or 4 water changes in the past month, no problems yet. My only issue with this substrate is the little sticks that float to the surface when you first add it, but a net will take care of that.
Oh, I use small 2-3mm river sand on the bottom about 1cm deep before I added the ADA soil. I used the sand with some fish for a month to cycle the tank which housing some yellow shrimp currently.
My advice on the ammonia is to keep the filter running, and check the media/prefilter. If the prefilter is clogged change out some of it, but not all. This will reduce the particles in the water, but save the bacteria. Thus clearing your water from excess bacteria and algae.

Regards


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

I've been meaning to give an update. I guess I'm on day 11 now. I've done 5 water changes so far, only two since day 3. Starting around day 5 or 6, I'd say it was about 95% clear, maybe a bit more. Just a slight grayish haze. Not really a concern at this point. If it doesn't clear up in a couple of months, maybe I'll try some of the charcoal suggestions.

Yes, I did need to clean the filter a 2 or 3 times. The prefilter doesn't seem to catch much of the smaller stuff very well. I found a lot of gray stuffed rinsed out of the bio-media, and a lot was in the polishing pads. Last time not much was in there, so I probably will not bother with filter cleaning for a while. I need to plant next (whenever they arrive), which I'm sure will stir up a lot. I'll clean the filter again after that.

The ammonia is a different story. It is still around 1ppm. If a water change brings is down to .5ppm, it's up to 1ppm the next day. If I add ammonia to bring it up to 5ppm, it back down to 1ppm after a day or two. My conclusion is that the filter is keeping up, but the AS is leaching ammonia so fast that it's not possible bring it down to 0ppm. It's kind of like if have something very smelly in the room, and put a fan in a window to keep it aired out. You'll bring the level of smell way down, but if it is strong enough to start with, you'll always smell it a bit.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

I started up my first tank using ADA amazonia 1 about three months ago. Tap water is 8.3 pH, GH 7, KH 17. I had no cloudiness issue once the tank settled after initial (heavy) planting (which kicked up tons of dust). I had two established filters on the tank one of which contained a lot of fresh zeolite and some Purigen and waited over a month before beginning to clean my filters again. I did lots of water changes, first one (90% +) an hour after filling the tank, one the next morning after planting (90% +) and then daily changes of about 70% for the first 12 days. After 12 days the morning ammonia reading was no longer 2-3 ppm, it had dropped to less than 1 ppm so I switched to 50% water changes for two days... after the 14th day I had no more detectable ammonia and started doing 50% water changes every 5th day. Tank parameters are now pH 6.2-6.4 depending on how much CO2 I am injecting, KH dropped to 5–5.5 and GH for some reason went up a point to 8. While I did not experience cloudy water after the first day I did have an issue with certain plants loosing leaves to melting and lots of brown diatoms. I don't think you can overdo the water changes when starting up an aqua soil tank, the more work you put in up front the quicker the tank should stabilize though based on reading about others' experiences it seems that the amount of time it takes a tank to stabilize can vary quite a bit.


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## MedRed (May 20, 2008)

I usually don't get clouding with AS at startup. I plant with tongs which doesn't kick up much of anything. I soad the top layer of the AS with a spray bottle before flling to keep it from floating up as the water rises. I also fill with airline tubing to so i don't disturb anything. AS tends to cloud up something nasty if it's really disturbed... but it tends to settle pretty quickly.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Others can flame me for posting this if they want, but I believe that this whole ADA Aquasoil Ammonia threat has been blown out of proportion and does nothing but spread FUD. Just because your test kits shows elevated ammonia levels is no reason to press the panic button. Your test kit may well be reading ammonia in its non-toxic form - ammonium(NH4) vs toxic Ammonia(NH3). You also have to look at the bigger picture.

Here is why I feel that way:

Ammonia only takes on a toxic dangerous form at higher temperatures and "higher" ph levels. ADA Aquasoil by its very nature buffers the PH to the lower end of 6.5(average)

If you use a water conditioner like Seachem Prime, it tends to change ammonia into a non-toxic form as well.

If you do all of this and have a tank packed full of fast growing stem plants and some floating plants, any threat of ammonia poisoning to fish if it even exists will be nullified.

Fish are not all the same when it comes to their tolerance of elevated ammonia levels. Bettas, whitecloud minnows, black skirt tetras, and zebra danios among others tend to be more tolerant and for that reason are often used to cycle tanks where initial elevated ammonia levels would kill most fish. 

Bottom line: If the elevated ammonia levels worry you, pack your plants full of fast growing stems and floating plants from the start and don't go overboard on the trimming, keep an eye on your tank temperature to ensure it does not shoot up to critical levels, stock your tank with more ammonia tolerant fish early on and then later add other fish - do not overstock your tank, use a water conditioner like prime and even double the amount in your replacement water and continue with 50% weekly water changes. Sit back and enjoy.

And if you are still doubtful, then best to stick to flourite, eco-complete, Soilmaster select, Schultz Aquatic Soil, or plain pool filter sand where this perceived threat does not exist.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

There are also nitrites, which measure around .5ppm. pH is around 7.3 (8+ before AS does it's thing).

I'm not worried about ammonia at the moment, because I'm not ready to stock the tank yet. I want to get my plants first, and give them up to a week or so to get well rooted. I don't want to be planting (and replanting) while the tank is stocked. No need stressing the fish when they are currently content in a few smaller tanks. Plants are on order from aquariumplants.com. Not sure when they'll be sent out (ordered Saturday and they haven't been shipped yet). I'll have to assess things again once the plants have been in for a while.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

cjp999 said:


> There are also nitrites, which measure around .5ppm...


If you have not added plants yet, then that would not be unusual as your tank is undergoing a conventional cycle. Elevated Ammonia, followed by Elevated nitrites, with ammonia beginning to drop to zero if did already has not done so, followed by Elevated nitrates(ammonia and nitrites should read zero) followed by elevated nitrates, which are reduced by adding a bunch of fast growing stem plants or floating plants or doing a huge scale(90 % water change).

If you add plants in high enough density including fast growing stem plants and floating plants, your tank should begin silent cycling. You may still get elevated ammonia and nitrites, and possibly nitrates, but the time it takes to go from ammonia to nitrites to nitrates should be reduced dramatically, at least that has been my experience when I have set up tanks with and without plants. And as stated even if ammonia readings remain elevated once you add the plants, it may really be a non-issue for reasons I previously mentioned.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

Homer_Simpson said:


> If you have not added plants yet, then that would not be unusual as your tank is undergoing a conventional cycle. Elevated Ammonia, followed by Elevated nitrites, with ammonia beginning to drop to zero if did already has not done so, followed by Elevated nitrates(ammonia and nitrites should read zero) followed by elevated nitrates, which are reduced by adding a bunch of fast growing stem plants or floating plants or doing a huge scale(90 % water change).


I don't believe this is the tank cycling issue. This tank was already cycled before adding AS, although obviously not as well as before the AS since it has a new substrate and I cleaned the glass.

As I mentioned above, I can add ammonia to raise it to 5ppm, and it's back down to 1ppm after a day our two. If I do a water change to bring it down to .5ppm or lower, it is back up to 1ppm the next day. Nitrites typically stay around .5ppm the whole time. So, my filter has no trouble keeping up with the ammonia leaching, but I believe that ammonia is being added so fast that it can't get it down to zero at any point.


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## Homer_Simpson (May 10, 2007)

When I set up a 15 gallon high tank with ADA Aquasoil II, I jam packed it full of plants including floating plants, never used any seeded filter media. I did not notice any drawn out ammonia spikes or nitrite spikes, fish did well and continue to do well. Water was crystal clear from the start and continues to be. I used Seachem Purigen in the HOB filter. Don't know what to tell you. Perhaps you should just stick to fluorite, pool filter sand, eco-complete, etc., If the Aquasoil is really at the root of your problem, a foolproof way of eliminating a problem is eliminating the source.


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## cjp999 (Nov 18, 2008)

Time for an update. It's been 17 days now. As of last friday (2 weeks) the water looks clear. Water changes after about the 4 day have been about every 4 days. Looks like my driftwood is still leaching tanins, because there is a brownish tinge 2 or 3 days after the water change.

For the first 2 weeks, ammonia quickly leveled off at 1ppm and nitrites at .5ppm. This happend after about 3 days and stayed that way until the 2 week mark. These readings held true 24 hours after a water change and 24 hours after after adding 5ppm of ammonia.

Last friday, after two weeks, things changed. I never mentioned that the tank had been unheated, averaging about 66 degrees. My heater was broken, and the replacement did not arrive until friday. I knew nitrifying bacteria supposedly did a better job at higher temps, so I was curious as to how the heater would change things. I did a 70% water change, turned on the heater, and added 5ppm of ammonia.

Within 2 days the ammonia was almost completely clear (down to maybe .1ppm). However, nitrites have spiked above 5ppm after spending two weeks at .5ppm (even after adding the extra ammonia), so this has me somewhat perplexed.

The reduced ammonia readings could be attributed to more favorable temps, but why the nitrite spike? I know it happens when cycling a tank and the ammonia eating bacteria finally get well established, but this tank is well cycled already. I can think of two reasons:


The temp increase had a short term negative affect on the bacteria that eat nitrites, and it may be a while before they adjust to the higher temps.
The temp increase has cause a sharp increase in the leaching rate of the ammonia from the AS. The ammonia eating bacteria adjusted quickly, and the nitrite eating bacteria are lagging as usual.
Any other theories?


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

That's really not unusual for a cycling tank. The N-bacteria populations often boom and crash multiple times in relation to the available ammonia and nitrite before they reach a stable, sustainable population level. Which will, in turn, affect the ammonia and nitrite levels in the water column.


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