# Help me understand my GH and KH test results!



## BlazednSleepy (Aug 21, 2010)

So I just tested the GH of my aquarium and tap water and it 5 drops to get to the green coloration. And the Chart says 5 drops equals 89.5 ppm GH.

Is that good?


The chart says 50-100ppm+ Most tropical Fish including angelfish, Cichlids,tetras,Botia, Live plants..

And my KH from the tap took 8 drops for the full color change from blue to yellow. which from the chart is 143.2 ppm

Can someone please explain to me what my test results mean exactly?

Thanks you.


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## BlazednSleepy (Aug 21, 2010)

So to my understanding my results are

GH=5dkh

KH= 8dkh

what do you guys think of those numbers?


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

kH is kind of high, but the gH is quite beautiful!


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## BlazednSleepy (Aug 21, 2010)

Would aging the water or air rate lower the KH?

Would my water be considered hard water?


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

BlazednSleepy said:


> 1. Would aging the water or air rate lower the KH?
> 
> 2. Would my water be considered hard water?


1. No, unfortunately there is little you can do to lower the carbonate hardness of water. I think your only real options are to use rain, distilled or reverse osmosis water.

2. It depends on who you ask, but IMO yes, it is hard water.


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## Nate McFin (Mar 19, 2009)

I wouldn't change a thing. It really isn't worth messing with, as most plants and fish will acclimate just fine. There will be very few exceptions to that.


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## Granny (Feb 23, 2011)

BlazednSleepy said:


> So I just tested the GH of my aquarium and tap water and it 5 drops to get to the green coloration. And the Chart says 5 drops equals 89.5 ppm GH. Is that good?


BlazednSleepy, I know many people would think yours is hard water and be concerned about fixing it. Your water is very soft compared to mine. I'll tell you about mine.

When testing my water, it takes 18 to 20 (or more) drops of test kit solution to change the color for both my GH and KH. I don't bother to test it any more because I already know how hard it is.

I decided many years ago I would use the water I have and not make my life miserable trying to "fix" it to what some book said was perfect. I make no attempt to change it to something else. My fish are healthy and thriving. My plants are healthy and lush. I've only found a couple of plants that don't work well for me, so I just don't get those because there are hundreds to choose from.

The thing about using exceptionally hard water is to be diligent about tank maintenance. Especially water changes. I change half of the water weekly and every month or two I change 75%. If you don't make water changes, as opposed to just topping off, the hardness will increase because the hard water particles just keep building up. You must change the water!

You can work yourself ragged trying for perfection, or you can learn to use what you have, which will work for almost everyone. Good luck


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## alexem (Apr 12, 2011)

Your water is a little hard! 
You can make change water many time at week to reach better Kh. 
When kh are hight, you can have algae problem...



Natural Aquascaping - Planted Aquarium Blog
www.naturalaquascaping.com


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## BlazednSleepy (Aug 21, 2010)

Ya my aquarium is starting to have an algae hair outbreak....Now I know its from the relatively high KH.

DO you think discus would thrive in these water conditions?


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

alexem said:


> Your water is a little hard!
> You can make change water many time at week to reach better Kh.
> When kh are hight, you can have algae problem...


To which BlazednSleepy said:
"Ya my aquarium is starting to have an algae hair outbreak....Now I know its from the relatively high KH.
DO you think discus would thrive in these water conditions?"

This is very typical in forums on probably ALL subjects: a poster is looking for information-gets WRONG information and because some aspect of it appears to make sense ACCEPTS it as fact. Alexem please point us to any scientific study that shows moderately high kH causes algae. BlazednSleepy, please reread Granny's post _repeatedly_ because there is the answer you seek. It's not flashy or "techy" it's just plain good common sense advice coming from someone who sounds like they know from experience. Look elsewhere for your answer to your hair algae outbreak because it's not your kH which is just fine. Sounds perfect for raising discus and I'll bet many professional breeders do just that in water much like yours.


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## BlazednSleepy (Aug 21, 2010)

I really appreciate your help mark. Sometimes I trust forum posts too much. I'll have to work on that. But to my understanding the algae is either from left over food particles building up in the tank, or nitrates and phosphates in the tap water. And obviously the amount of light. I reduced my light to 9 hours a day last night. But thats another topic to discuss.

Anyway Im glad to hear that my water parameters so far seem to be great for discus. My PH is about 7.6, but people seem to say Discus will do just fine in that PH.

I do 30% weekly water changes with a gravel vac. And again you're right granny seems to have more knowledge and insight to my topic at hand. 

I really appreciate the help everyone.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

MarkMc said:


> This is very typical in forums on probably ALL subjects: a poster is looking for information-gets WRONG information and because some aspect of it appears to make sense ACCEPTS it as fact. Alexem please point us to any scientific study that shows moderately high kH causes algae. BlazednSleepy, please reread Granny's post _repeatedly_ because there is the answer you seek. It's not flashy or "techy" it's just plain good common sense advice coming from someone who sounds like they know from experience. Look elsewhere for your answer to your hair algae outbreak because it's not your kH which is just fine. Sounds perfect for raising discus and I'll bet many professional breeders do just that in water much like yours.


kH doesn't 'cause' algae. However, a tank with alkaline water will often develop lots of algae problems because most nutrients are _scientifically_ proven to be less available to plants in alkaline water.

This is common sense.


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## VeeSe (Apr 16, 2011)

You, sir, have a rather strange definition of common sense. It's common sense that nutrients are less available to plants in alkaline water? As in everybody knows this and the "commoner" should be able to figure it out?


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

snausage said:


> kH doesn't 'cause' algae. However, a tank with alkaline water will often develop lots of algae problems because most nutrients are _scientifically_ proven to be less available to plants in alkaline water.
> 
> This is common sense.


Please post a link to the studies that scientifically prove that. There are a lot of variables in a planted tank so it is difficult to substantiate an _opinion_ as fact. Your statement is only an opinion-not fact. You state that a tank with alkaline water (please provide a kH range so we can see what you mean by "alkaline water") will often (what do you mean by "often" ? 50% of the time? 75% of the time?) develop lots of algae problems (again what is "lots"? and what type of algae? and what is the model we are using? an established tank? 1 year old? 2 years old? 15 years?) because most nutrients (which nutrients?) are scientifically proven to be less available (point us to the study so we can draw own conclusions) in alkaline water.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Algae is predominantly "caused" by light. The more light you have, the better the algae can grow. But, algae also tend to grow most on dead, unhealthy or just not growing plant parts. So, having lots of actively growing, healthy plants helps to avoid algae. That means we should concentrate on growing healthy plants, and a bonus will be less algae problems. If we do that with no more light than necessary, we again get a bonus of less algae problems.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

MarkMc said:


> Please post a link to the studies that scientifically prove that. There are a lot of variables in a planted tank so it is difficult to substantiate an _opinion_ as fact. Your statement is only an opinion-not fact. You state that a tank with alkaline water (please provide a kH range so we can see what you mean by "alkaline water") will often (what do you mean by "often" ? 50% of the time? 75% of the time?) develop lots of algae problems (again what is "lots"? and what type of algae? and what is the model we are using? an established tank? 1 year old? 2 years old? 15 years?) because most nutrients (which nutrients?) are scientifically proven to be less available (point us to the study so we can draw own conclusions) in alkaline water.


Here is one such chart. There are zillions that show the same thing if you google 'ph nutrient availability'. 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=r7HFTaT-G4LqgAeF67nKBA&ved=0CCkQ9QEwAw

Why are products specifically tailored to planted tanks like aquasoil designed to make your water acidic and reduce carbonate hardness?


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

snausage said:


> Here is one such chart. There are zillions that show the same thing if you google 'ph nutrient availability'.
> 
> http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=r7HFTaT-G4LqgAeF67nKBA&ved=0CCkQ9QEwAw
> 
> Why are products specifically tailored to planted tanks like aquasoil designed to make your water acidic and reduce carbonate hardness?


So based on studies on terrestrial plants and soil pH you've arrived at the conclusion that "higher" alkalinity in aquatic environments causes algae? As for substrates like aquasoil I believe the goal of them is to supply NKP and traces to the root systems and lowering kH is a side effect, even if it is a beneficial one.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

MarkMc said:


> So based on studies on terrestrial plants and soil pH you've arrived at the conclusion that "higher" alkalinity in aquatic environments causes algae? As for substrates like aquasoil I believe the goal of them is to supply NKP and traces to the root systems and lowering kH is a side effect, even if it is a beneficial one.


No, there's also several hydroponic studies as well that have produced similar findings. If the nutrients aren't supplied via a medium (in this case, water) where they are available to plants, algae will gladly fill that role. 

Many substrates that are similar to aquasoil, in that they lower pH and kH, do not contain much N at all, hence the fact that they don't cause an ammonia spike. They are designed to lower pH and kH so nutrients can be absorbed properly. Some examples include Azoo plant grower bed and the Fluval planted tank stratum. 

If you don't believe me, why not contact one of the companies that produces active soils? I'm sure they'll essentially reiterate what I've been saying.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

BlazednSleepy said:


> Ya my aquarium is starting to have an algae hair outbreak....Now I know its from the relatively high KH.
> 
> DO you think discus would thrive in these water conditions?


I bet its not. I run tanks with KH and GH so high I can't test it at home.... algae free.

Algae is from too much light, too little co2, and too little nutrients. 

KH has nothing to do with it.


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

snausage said:


> If you don't believe me, why not contact one of the companies that produces active soils? I'm sure they'll essentially reiterate what I've been saying.


I think if they were going to reiterate it now, they would have been saying it all along. 

When it comes to our dosing routines, if you are dosing enough (pps pro, ei, rootmedic, pfretz) you won't encounter these nutrient "limits".


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

And the charts seem a little "loose". For instance, Iron availability greatly depends on the chelator.


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

"No, there's also several hydroponic studies as well that have produced similar findings. If the nutrients aren't supplied via a medium (in this case, water) where they are available to plants, algae will gladly fill that role."

No, you said that higher alkalinity makes nutrients unavailable to plants and caused algae. You've implied that nutrients that are present can't be used because of high kH.


"However, a tank with alkaline water will often develop lots of algae problems because most nutrients are scientifically proven to be less available to plants in alkaline water."

Please post a link to a study on aquatic plants, not a soil study or one on terrestrial plants grown using hydroponics. As for your comments on some substrates lowering pH and kH I'll say this: there are many ways to lower kH and some substrates will do just that as will RO filtered water. Also some plants encountered in our hobby will do better in lower kH and that kH can be too high for some plants. However, just because a substrate company uses the fact that it's product lowers pH and kH doesn't mean that you can't grow almost any plant in our hobby in the water the OP has (which is a little on the hard side) AND algae free.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

OverStocked said:


> I bet its not. I run tanks with KH and GH so high I can't test it at home.... algae free.
> 
> Algae is from too much light, too little co2, and too little nutrients.
> 
> KH has nothing to do with it.


I run a crs tank with 48 watts of t5HO lighting for 10-12 hours daily and no co2. I purposely limit NO3 and PO4 and there hasn't been any algae in over 6 months. That contradicts everything you just stated. If what you're saying is true, then practically every CRS tank would be loaded with algae.



OverStocked said:


> I think if they were going to reiterate it now, they would have been saying it all along.


If you look at their literature, you'll see that it is essentially a reiteration of what I've been saying in this post..... 



OverStocked said:


> And the charts seem a little "loose". For instance, Iron availability greatly depends on the chelator.


Most people use DPTA iron chelate. I believe the chart for Fe availability is based on DPTA, which nosedives after 6. 



MarkMc said:


> "
> 
> 1. No, you said that higher alkalinity makes nutrients unavailable to plants and caused algae. You've implied that nutrients that are present can't be used because of high kH.
> 
> ...


1. Your point is what? I'm not implying anything, I'm stating it and unlike you providing evidence to support my statements. 

The higher the kH, the higher the pH (common sense), and therefore, based on the evidence I've provided, the reduced availability of nutrients to aquarium plants (again, common sense). 

2. Please post a link that contradicts anything I've said? Plants are still plants and chemicals are chemicals. Replace the word soil with medium (in our case *water*, as I've mentioned) and presto, we're talking about aquatic plants

How many other ways are there to lower kH aside from ro/di and active soils? I don't know any other way. 

And finally, to be frank, most tanks with both a high kH and gH that try to include a wide variety of plants aside from the easy cheesy ones available at petsmart etc are complete failures. Why would people bother buying ro units and aquasoil if it they didn't do anything beneficial?

Does anyone else out there see a correlation between hard water and hard- headedness :icon_roll?


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

You haven't proven anything. High kH (and you've not told us what is the definition of high kH) causes algae. Where is the link? The burden of proof is on you. You made the statement-show the research. It's not up to me to prove you wrong. Or are we playing "cows can fly-prove me wrong"?


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## OverStocked (May 26, 2007)

snausage said:


> I run a crs tank with 48 watts of t5HO lighting for 10-12 hours daily and no co2. I purposely limit NO3 and PO4 and there hasn't been any algae in over 6 months. That contradicts everything you just stated. If what you're saying is true, then practically every CRS tank would be loaded with algae.


All you've done here is contradicted yourself. First you say that nutrient deficiencies caused by pH limiting causes algae, then you you say that you intentionally limit NO3 and PO4 and you have no algae. Sooooo..... 


> If you look at their literature, you'll see that it is essentially a reiteration of what I've been saying in this post.....


I did as you requested and reviewed the lit for aquasoil, azoo, and controlsoil. I might need you to spell it out for me. I don't see any claims that lowering the pH will change nutrient availability or that lowering the pH will change algae. 

Most people use DPTA iron chelate. I believe the chart for Fe availability is based on DPTA, which nosedives after 6. 
[/quote]Most people? I'd be that more people use seachem iron than anything on the market. That would be Fe Gluconate. I use DTPA, Gluconate, and EDTA.


> 1. Your point is what? I'm not implying anything, I'm stating it and unlike you providing evidence to support my statements.
> 
> The higher the kH, the higher the pH (common sense), and therefore, based on the evidence I've provided, the reduced availability of nutrients to aquarium plants (again, common sense).
> 
> ...


LIke I said. I keep a variety of plants that are far from common in basically liquid rock. SOME plants are not as hardy and require RO/acidic, but you could just as easily grow an algae farm in a tank with acidic soft conditions. 

Who says RO units are always beneficial? If you don't know how to use it it would easily be more problematic. Saying you NEED it is nonsense. 


> Does anyone else out there see a correlation between hard water and hard- headedness :icon_roll


apparently disagreeing with you makes us hardheaded. 

How much research have YOU done. I've done several years of it using a variety of controls. None of it said I had to have a low KH to prevent algae.


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## KrazyFish (Dec 23, 2010)

^I love it!^


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