# Help quick please!!



## grizzly_a (Sep 9, 2014)

I think that coloration will result in a pretty warm/orange coloration with the absence of blue & greens. 
Have you considered adding a lime green, and blue into the mix to give the spectrum a little more depth?


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

My most recent DIY build included 3 watt full spectrum LED beads.
4:3 ratio, whites:full spectrum. I used 10K for whites to cut the pink/purple look of the full spectrum LED's.

I felt this eliminated the need for reds and warm whites.


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

I'm not eliminating the 6500k, so I'm looking for a recommendation to coincide with the 6 existing 6500k. So with 6x6500k what would you recommend to use for the remaining 12 available LEDs?

Yes, on my 120 I have reds, greens, violets. What ratio or what do you suggest quantity wise or what to replace the green/lime with?



grizzly_a said:


> I think that coloration will result in a pretty warm/orange coloration with the absence of blue & greens.
> Have you considered adding a lime green, and blue into the mix to give the spectrum a little more depth?


Yes, refer to the previous post, forgot to quote. Sorry


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Your channels are 12 and 6 so I assume the 6 one the one channel are the 6500k
Next question, what diode types?


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Correct! The jbj has two channels. The one channel controls the 6x6500k and the other controls the 12 additional LEDS I'll be modifying. As for the diode type, I'm not sure. Do I need to take the power supply apart to find out?



jeffkrol said:


> Your channels are 12 and 6 so I assume the 6 one the one channel are the 6500k
> Next question, what diode types?


Omg I quoted like last time, just doesn't like me. Sorry, refer to previous post again.



jeffkrol said:


> Your channels are 12 and 6 so I assume the 6 one the one channel are the 6500k
> Next question, what diode types?


Sorry, brain fart! Don't care what brand I'll use, don't care the cost, as for what's existing they are a 6 diode circuit board that says Edison-optics on it. So I'm assuming that's the brand of LEDs also.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Yea I missed the "keeping" the 6 part in the beginning.. Still which brand of diodes..? Or are you just throwing out the board w/ the 6 each blues??
Brand determines color availability..each brand ansd styles of brands have a "footprint" that is different.. 
Generally speaking, some are easy to identify. If they used an off brand or OEM type diodes you may not be able to just unsolder and replace..
Ther are lot of little bits that one needs to know..

OK found this: Looks like Bridgelux "eggs"..
http://www.jbjlighting.com/pdfs/prod-unibody-data-sheet.pdf
eliminates easily using "lime"..


So you can do the "full spectrum" diodes..which are basically blue w/ red and deep red phosphors.
Add cyan if you can find them in bridegelux style.
381649522446

One of each,, so either 1pr (full spectrum plus cyan)(centered) or 2 pr (ends) w/ the remaining slots w/ a high white 10000-15000k
That is one possibility.

simpler w/ no possible "disco"..
Just mix warm white w/ more 6500k.. so 12 6500k and 6 warm white (3500k) total..
Should give you about 5500K and high CRI..
Again if you want to use the boards it does matter.. Can't stick a pin base bulb in a screw socket.. Obviously everything is re-workable but I assume you want to save some work..

Pick Edison in "items" and play w/ this if you want to see what type of spectrum you get:
http://spectra.1023world.net/

Can't guarantee the footprint is the same as Bridgelux..
edison








http://www.dx.com/p/edison-opto-klc8-3w-led-emitter-4282#.V57TcjUeUVY
bridgelux:








Type of CREE for comparison:


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Yea I missed the "keeping" the 6 part in the beginning.. Still which brand of diodes..? Or are you just throwing out the board w/ the 6 each blues??
> Brand determines color availability..each brand ansd styles of brands have a "footprint" that is different..
> Generally speaking, some are easy to identify. If they used an off brand or OEM type diodes you may not be able to just unsolder and replace..
> Ther are lot of little bits that one needs to know..
> ...


Your the man! You helped me with my big 120 diy led back in 2014! Greatly appreciate your help! 

I was just gonna ditch the boards and add the pucks with a single led on them. So honestly since your the master and my 120 looks and grows crazy, I'd go with what you personally would do in this case. As far as brand, spectrum, etc.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Thanks.. and yea if you do the cool white warm white replacement of all the blues it should give you a decent spectrum and color w/ little fuss..
The light configuration and size really does not lend itself, in my mind, to a lot of color fiddling..
Fun to try I guess.. but fiddling 
As I said the bridgelux eggs and Edison look compatible so you can usually readily remove and replace. Just need to check polarity.
Oh and there is a chance the current eggs won't come off the board in one piece..
People that did Beamsworks found some are soldered in the middle (making removal a bit more destructive) some aren't..

Using an electric fry pan you may be able to remove and replace all fairly easily. Depends whats all on those boards..
Best to try to remove w/ a soldering iron first though..


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Thanks.. and yea if you do the cool white warm white replacement of all the blues it should give you a decent spectrum and color w/ little fuss..
> The light configuration and size really does not lend itself, in my mind, to a lot of color fiddling..
> Fun to try I guess.. but fiddling
> As I said the bridgelux eggs and Edison look compatible so you can usually readily remove and replace. Just need to check polarity.
> ...


10-4!! Greatly appreciate it! Any recommendations on where to get the Bridgelux and relatively quickly? Have my kessil a350w tuna blue with the blue channel way down hanging over it now. What do you think of that spectrum for a planted? BaaahhahahHahahahaha


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Thanks.. and yea if you do the cool white warm white replacement of all the blues it should give you a decent spectrum and color w/ little fuss..
> The light configuration and size really does not lend itself, in my mind, to a lot of color fiddling..
> Fun to try I guess.. but fiddling
> As I said the bridgelux eggs and Edison look compatible so you can usually readily remove and replace. Just need to check polarity.
> ...


One more thing Jeff, you steered me to try the ocean coral whites pucks before. I have 3 that I never put into service. What do you think about adding four of those?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Fine but you are moving far beyond what I assumed you wanted to do (simple reconfig).
If you run them in series should work


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Fine but you are moving far beyond what I assumed you wanted to do (simple reconfig).
> If you run them in series should work


Well it's easier to unscrew that 6 led board and paste down some new pucks then trying to redo 12 chips in my opinion! So you think that would be a good spectrum/setup. So 4 ocean whites and 6x 6500k?

Bump:


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Getcusome said:


> Well it's easier to unscrew that 6 led board and paste down some new pucks then trying to redo 12 chips in my opinion! So you think that would be a good spectrum/setup. So 4 ocean whites and 6x 6500k?
> 
> Bump:


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/388465-ocean-coral-white-leds.html

Overall should end up a bit on the cool side but most do seem to prefer it..
In my opinion worth a try..

NOW that the spectrum part is decided, we need to figure out drive compatibility
Specs for an OCW board:


> The LEDs on the board are wired in series which needs 8.6v @ 500mA (40w 700mA driver and a POT will achieve this easily). If need be, each LED can also be separately wired to different drivers.


2 in series will require 17.2V...
Problem may be that the current drivers are constant current @700mA.. you will be overdriving the OCW's a bit..
If you have a VOM w/ dc amps it may be worth putting it in line to the blue strips and see the amp output.

Adding a 0-10v power supply to the "dim" plugs will allow you to effectively cut the output..(no not below full amps but pulsed full amps)
a 10k pot may work if the drivers are designed "universal"

OPP's dimming is built in right??? Keep the pots low for a bit after assembly..


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10-lighting/388465-ocean-coral-white-leds.html
> 
> Overall should end up a bit on the cool side but most do seem to prefer it..
> In my opinion worth a try..
> ...


Yeah it has slides to dim the blue and white channels independently. Was gonna get a controller eventually for the 0-10v ports. Wanna order asap as I have no patience once I get into build/tinker mode. So can I just use the existing manual dimmer slides or do I need a external unit for the 0-10v of i do the OCW?

Yeah I was trying to see if I could find the ma output for the controller without luck. Was gonna do Cree xp-l or the xm-l2. Are they actually worth the double+ price tag? Just want to have enough light.

Bump: Dummy me, duo 700, so it's "700ma-variable output-18-54v"


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Getcusome said:


> Yeah it has slides to dim the blue and white channels independently. Was gonna get a controller eventually for the 0-10v ports. Wanna order asap as I have no patience once I get into build/tinker mode. So can I just use the existing manual dimmer slides or do I need a external unit for the 0-10v of i do the OCW?
> 
> Yeah I was trying to see if I could find the ma output for the controller without luck. Was gonna do Cree xp-l or the xm-l2. Are they actually worth the double+ price tag? Just want to have enough light.
> 
> Bump: Dummy me, duo 700, so it's "700ma-variable output-18-54v"


18V low end huh.. May need to stick a 3W diode between the 2 pucks to get the V(f) up..
The pucks should run higher than 17.2 @ 700mA but if the driver goes into freak out mode (flash the LED's on and off, usually).. one added diode will fix that.

17.2x.5 =8.6W per puck..

since I was contemplating that voltage minimum I was wondering what other "improvements" you could do. The OCW and 6500k alone aren't really good for CRI or a mainstream K..
The royal blue really do a number on both the K and CRI..
you can mitigate is somewhat w/ adding 3 "neutral white" Leds in- between the 2 pucks per channel..
NW-OCW-NW-OCW-NW
65k-65k-65k-65k-65k
NW-OCW-NW-OCW-NW

So the nine diodes @ roughly 3v =27V..18.9
18.9+11.55+18.9 = 49.35W at the diode guesstimating w/ the above addition..


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> 18V low end huh.. May need to stick a 3W diode between the 2 pucks to get the V(f) up..
> The pucks should run higher than 17.2 @ 700mA but if the driver goes into freak out mode (flash the LED's on and off, usually).. one added diode will fix that.
> 
> 17.2x.5 =8.6W per puck..
> ...


Adding LEDS IS A PLUS IN MY EYES! So the OCW helps me in the end add some additional lumens! Thanks so much!!! But I do like CRI so if you think going the original route is the best. I honestly like building so I'm not afraid of doing any combo. Just want to utilize the fixture and power supply! So honestly what do you think will give me the best growth and CRI? It would be nice to use the OCW but not a must either! And if you think loosing the 6500k to do a full fixture led swap is best shoot me your ideal recommendation for the power supply. I do have two steve's "the single" led drivers and 25v 8amp power supply that I could utilize if need be also. I did find some spare LEDs from previous builds (one salt fixture and the 120 planted you helped me tweak), 2 hyper violet dual core, a spare 6500k, 6 dark violet, spare 4500k, 2 true cool blue, 2x 3-up pick with two blues and a white and a spare 10000k. Sorry to throw a monkey in the fray!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

OK.. the simplest "retrofit" would be using the OCW but take out the royal blue (the 4 on the OCW boards) and add 6500k diodes. Also add the neutral white as above..
Now there are a few "quesstimates" here inc. using 3x fr each diode since they only have 1W Edisons. Also don't list any deep red. Also each "group" uses basically a midpoint for the calculations (i.e:cool white 5000-10000 = 7500K)









Violets will push the K value up but not increase CRI, and eventually as more are added, decrease it..


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> OK.. the simplest "retrofit" would be using the OCW but take out the royal blue (the 4 on the OCW boards) and add 6500k diodes. Also add the neutral white as above..
> Now there are a few "quesstimates" here inc. using 3x fr each diode since they only have 1W Edisons. Also don't list any deep red. Also each "group" uses basically a midpoint for the calculations (i.e:cool white 5000-10000 = 7500K)
> 
> 
> ...


Ok so what diodes do they use on the OCW pucks that I can replace the Royal blue with? Or should I just wire the individual LEDs on the OCW and just add the 4x6500k pucks with the neutral whites?


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Would it be ok to do the Bridgelux solder less for the 4500k and the cree Xt-e cool white even thought they say there 6000k? Don't see anything else in 6500k on group buy. Just would prefer to order from one place if it will work out ok?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

The old OCW's used the bridgelux/edision diodes.









You could use the solderless CREE's.. 3x the cost but 2x the l/w output..and 6000k is fine

re: 4500k..THey don't have the "egg style" anymore.. Replaced w/ the solderless Bridgelux.

There is no pressing need to remove the rb from the OCW
Actually ask LED GB if they got some Bridgelux.. w/out the star boards. They may have some..

As I said, the simplest way.. 
Just doing the CREE may get you to 18520K and 59CRI..
Try it, see how it goes. Worse comes to worse, just bypass the rb on the OCW boards..
95CRI and 6700k w/out the blue but added 6 CREE 6000k..


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> The old OCW's used the bridgelux/edision diodes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So yeah, 95 CRI and 6700k. Not to shabby !!!!!!! I'll shoot them an email!! Thanks again for your Jedi light knowledge!!! It's about to go down!


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Sent them a message...... I'll see what they say, otherwise just gonna place the order....1xocw, 4xcree 6000k, and 6xbridgelux 4500k!! So amped!! 


Noticed you said added 6 Cree 6000k?????????? Now your throwing me off? 

Are you saying use the Cree for both the neutral white and the cool white? That would be 10 total Cree? 6xnw and 4x6000k???

That's what got the 95cri and 6700k?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Sorry for the confusion.. just any combination of this:
NW-OCW-NW-OCW-NW
65k-65k-65k-65k-65k
NW-OCW-NW-OCW-NW
*NW can really be any K in this case 6500-ish or 4000-ish
*
BUT if you can mod the OCW w/ a neutral in place of the blue then NW = 6X00K CREE
IF not then 4x00 to 5x00 CREE (will cut the blue a bit)
ANY way you do it the blue pumps the CRI down 10-ish points but ups the K well past 15000K. Dimming the channel w/ the OCW will bring it down a bit.
Most of this has been designed to optimize full output into a "preferred' range.. Cutting the output of the channel w/ the blue will always start bringing the K down to closer to 6500k (which it would get to w/ both outer channels off)
the 95CRI just assumes you take out the rb from the OCW (but no substitution) and all 6500k CREE (except orig 6500k board)

NW(CREE 6x00k)-OCW(no blue)-NW(CREE6x00k)-OCW(no blue)-NW(Cree6x00k)
orig 6500k board
NW(CREE 6x00k)-OCW(no blue)-NW(CREE6x00k)-OCW(no blue)-NW(Cree6x00k)

IF they have the bridgelux eggs just change no blue to 4x00k in place of blue
*It will change little in terms of anything but output since you are adding 3Wx4 LEDs..

discard the NW (4z00K) as nw sorry about the confusion.

Came about because for some reason the CREE 6x00k seem to really boost the CRI as opposed to the orig thought of the NW(4-5x00k)
Was unexpected.

Either way works fine.. flipping the 6500k w/ 4x00k as long as you have some of both

SOOO if they have any bridgelux eggs and you want to sub. them for the rb you can use either 6500k or 4500k just change the CREE to the opposite.
Normal variation makes worrying about 500k differences pointless 

Anyways hope this is clearer.
Guess bottom line is either 
6 CREE cool white and 1 more OCW (old style) and 4 Bridgelux eggs 4x00k
OR
6 CREE neutral white 4 6500k Bridgelux eggs and 1 OCW
OR
6CREE neutral white no Bridgelux and 1 OCW
OR
6CREE cool white no bridgelux and 1 OCW

Any should work fine

"best of class"
6 CREE cool white and 1 more OCW (old style) and 4 Bridgelux eggs 4x00k


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Sorry for the confusion.. just any combination of this:
> NW-OCW-NW-OCW-NW
> 65k-65k-65k-65k-65k
> NW-OCW-NW-OCW-NW
> ...


Thank you sir!!!! Got it now!!


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Waiting to here back but probably just going to order 1xocw, 6xcree 4500 and 6xcree 6000k for optimal lighting. If they have some Bridgelux diodes then I'll still get everything and have spares/backups


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

you know.. if you are replacing the center 6500k make that spot the lower k CREE's
That way you have a warm and cool channel..

CREE6500k-OCW-CREE6500k-OCW-CREE6500k
CREE 4000k-CREE4000k- CREE 4000k-CREE4000-CREE 4000k-CREE4000
CREE6500k-OCW-CREE6500k-OCW-CREE6500k


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> you know.. if you are replacing the center 6500k make that spot the lower k CREE's
> That way you have a warm and cool channel..
> 
> CREE6500k-OCW-CREE6500k-OCW-CREE6500k
> ...


Wasn't planning on it but should I???? Curse you! Lol


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

> 6xcree 4500 and 6xcree 6000k


thought that was why you said this.. Didn't fit otherwise..
BTW: the above (and leaving the blue in the OCW's) goes to 76CRI and 10530.. Blues really shift CRI rapidly..


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> thought that was why you said this.. Didn't fit otherwise..
> BTW: the above (and leaving the blue in the OCW's) goes to 76CRI and 10530.. Blues really shift CRI rapidly..


If I replaced the center channel I'd need what? 6x4500 and then 10x6000k?


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

Loosing the royal blue on the OCW for sure

Bump: Yeah just gonna loose the original setup all together and do what you said, 6x4500k, 3xocw(delete blue), 10x6000k. Now the question is how to lay it out......orientate the LEDs?🤓🤔


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Getcusome said:


> If I replaced the center channel I'd need what? 6x4500


Well technically you could add as many as the driver will handle.
As is I was assuming just matching diode for diode what was there..
just divide the V(f) into the driver max voltage..
example 56v/3.3 =16.9 or more correctly 16 
space and heating would be an issue..


> and then 10x6000k


No 6.. 3 for each side w/ the OCW pair
cree, ocw,cree,ocw,cree x 2


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> Well technically you could add as many as the driver will handle.
> As is I was assuming just matching diode for diode what was there..
> just divide the V(f) into the driver max voltage..
> example 56v/3.3 =16.9 or more correctly 16
> ...


Thought I could add more since I'm deleting the blues out of the OCW? No heat issue, that little 
Heat sink is nice and has a fan that moves a good amount of air thorough it. You don't think I should spread out the LEDs and mix up the colors some? Opposes to running all the 4500k down the middle and all the 6000k and OCW on the outside?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Getcusome;9441081 You don't think I should spread out the LEDs and mix up the colors some? Opposes to running all the 4500k down the middle and all the 6000k and OCW on the outside?[/QUOTE said:


> no................doing it that way gives you more control of the ultimate K value..
> running just the center and you get 4000k.. adding sides wil only bring your k value up..Even w./ the red/green the amount of blue/white will always raise the k..
> Adding more 6500k on the outside and/or leaving the blue will allow almost unlimited k from 4000 up.
> Well w/ eliminating the blue I guees you'd stop at 6500k-ish (subtract some for red.)
> ...


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> no................doing it that way gives you more control of the ultimate K value..
> running just the center and you get 4000k.. adding sides wil only bring your k value up..Even w./ the red/green the amount of blue/white will always raise the k..
> Adding more 6500k on the outside and/or leaving the blue will allow almost unlimited k from 4000 up.
> Well w/ eliminating the blue I guees you'd stop at 6500k-ish (subtract some for red.)
> ...


I know right! I only have two channels! So I'll do the 4xOCW(keep or delete blue?)down the middle tied in with the 12x6000k as one channel correct? Then just run the 6x4500k on their own channel two and just stratigecally place the remaining around the outside alternating 45k, 6k, etc? I'll draw a diagram when u get to the house. Or just sharpie up the actual heat sink!

Bump: LEDs are on the way at least! Smh


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> no................doing it that way gives you more control of the ultimate K value..
> running just the center and you get 4000k.. adding sides wil only bring your k value up..Even w./ the red/green the amount of blue/white will always raise the k..
> Adding more 6500k on the outside and/or leaving the blue will allow almost unlimited k from 4000 up.
> Well w/ eliminating the blue I guees you'd stop at 6500k-ish (subtract some for red.)
> ...



So lay it out like that? Red-OCW, white-6k, and cream 4K. So keep the blues on the OCW to help boost k correct?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

yes, best estimate w/ the above is 9900k and 78CRI..

8200K @ 87 CRI .. outside channels at 2/3rds power

no blue but all on full 4830k 97CRI..

I'd "do the blue" until you test it and then decide..

You will need to cool at least 52W..............


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> yes, best estimate w/ the above is 9900k and 78CRI..
> 
> 8200K @ 87 CRI .. outside channels at 2/3rds power
> 
> ...


Thanks a million! Well jbj designed it for 54watts so I hope it will do!!! Here is the top view so you get an idea....


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> yes, best estimate w/ the above is 9900k and 78CRI..
> 
> 8200K @ 87 CRI .. outside channels at 2/3rds power
> 
> ...


Thanks again for all your help Jeff!!! It's alive!! Just need some feedback on the aquascape but not to many responders!


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

You do work fast..


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## Getcusome (Feb 17, 2014)

jeffkrol said:


> You do work fast..


One last question....where do you think I sit power wise? Like low-medium or medium-high light? Gonna inject CO2 and want to grow just about anything i choose. Thanks in advance!


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