# EI vs. PPS Pro



## Wendy1B (Jan 8, 2017)

Hello, I went to GLA's site to order some ferts. I have experience with EI, but am curious if anyone has experience with their PPS Pro? Which one should I get for my
first high tech, high light, Co2 tank?


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

Ei.


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

They both work great PPS pro is meant to only add the nutrients that the plants are up taking in their proper portions. So you need to measure nutrient uptake and adjust your dosing accordingly whereas with EI you overdose to ensure without measuring that there are no nutrient deficiencies


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## Dman911 (Nov 24, 2016)

I would say EI is easier and PPS pro is more advanced. EI is more wasteful and in most cases requires more work ie. water changes but also a lot more forgiving. PPS pro is probably more effective if you can get the balance right but takes time to balance and dosing is always changing due to growth therefore requires more knowledge. Both are good options depending on your needs.

Dan


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## York1 (Dec 18, 2014)

Ive used both and prefer PPS pro because I dont have to do 50% water changes every week. Other than that both work great


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## Maryland Guppy (Dec 6, 2014)

To add to this discussion in a heavily planted tank regular PPS Pro dose is not enough.
Needed to double the ordinary dose or PO4 would bottom out.
I also reduce KNO3 since the fish load provides 10-15ppm of NO3.

Instead of a 50% weekly WC that would be required with EI, my need is only about 10% per week.
Heck if there is little evaporation, 20% every two weeks.

Buying EI package from NilocG.com and add MgSO4 and 10%Fe to the order.
Dosing recipes are also on this site.
Same compounds are used in either dosing method for the most part.

One must decide what amount of WC's they wish to be committed to?


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## sohankpatel (Jul 10, 2015)

I have used both for almost a year at a time. I saw better growth and less algae with EI, PPS tends to run out of nutrients in a very heavily planted high-light tank.


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## steveo (May 25, 2012)

Dman911 said:


> I would say EI is easier and PPS pro is more advanced. EI is more wasteful and in most cases requires more work ie. water changes but also a lot more forgiving. PPS pro is probably more effective if you can get the balance right but takes time to balance and dosing is always changing due to growth therefore requires more knowledge. Both are good options depending on your needs.
> 
> Dan


Agree! In agriculture, when you plan for responsible nutrient application, it's called using an 'agronomic rate'. This is applying the projected amount of each nutrient the crop will use to prevent needless nutrient leaching or runoff. Personally, using the PPS pro system makes alot of sense to me. I have been using this for a few years with much success. It's easy too!


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## Remmy (Jan 10, 2007)

EI can work fine without weekly water changes, just do a leaner micro dose to avoid buildup. You can also adjust macro dosage if any issues arise


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## Dempsey (Oct 27, 2009)

I have never tried PPS. I may try it some day. I like EI as it has never failed me. 50% WC's? I do 70-80% WC's every Sunday. I like the WC's so I can do other maintenance on the tanks. This works well for me. I also dose higher than EI in some heavily planted tanks with no issues. These are also high light and lots of co2...


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## Willcooper (May 31, 2015)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WxZI8akyxbg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KDdpUe4Olcg

These are videos from Dennis Wong talking about nutrient dosing and another about algae. He talks about ei, pps, and ada style. Merits of lean versus hammer dosing


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

PPS should stand for "pain per squirt" I will be going away from seachem flourish products and using EI. Already so tired of the individual dosing all the required seachem products. 


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## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Remmy said:


> EI can work fine without weekly water changes, just do a leaner micro dose to avoid buildup. You can also adjust macro dosage if any issues arise


Wouldn't that be sort of like PPS.

To the OP, Tom Barr recommends tap water for EI, plants like hard water at 8.0pH. 50% is easy with a python water changer which he recommends. So without knowing your tap water parameters and what fish you want/need to keep, if any, and the depth of your tank, no one can provide a realistic answer to your question. A shallow tank will always produce better growth and nicer growth as more light gets to the bottom of the plants. 24"+ deep tanks will have issues with too much growth since the bottoms will stay shaded. Less ferts = less growth = less trimming. 

From experience, algae can happen with over dosing and with under dosing. Over dosing is ok for plants but bad for fish, while under dosing is ok for fish but bad for plants. All within reason, of course. I use PPS due to tap water in the 600um range and have trouble keeping the algae at bay and while the new growth looks fabulous, the old growth horrendous.


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## Remmy (Jan 10, 2007)

Bobbybills said:


> Wouldn't that be sort of like PPS.


EI prescribed dosage amounts are the starting point, there's wiggle room built in. Use plant health as indicators, adjust accordingly


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## Freemananana (Jan 2, 2015)

They are the same thing to me. You can adjust accordingly with either method and end up at the same place. Neither is full proof nor the most efficient. I'd purchase the dry ingredients. I like to mix my own liquid ferts and dose all willy nilly, but a high tech tank would require regular dosing. Keep track of how you mix the portions and adjust based on deficiencies. Your goal should be the minimum amount of ferts requires for healthy growth.


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

All very good info here. I for one am learning so thank you. 


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## slythy (Sep 1, 2015)

I do PPS pro because my water volume on my tank is around 210 total gallons. So doing 105g water changes weekly and fert prices would be very high. I already use a 35lb CO2 tank. when it was my 40B only EI worked well and I didnt have much algae.


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## Wendy1B (Jan 8, 2017)

Bobbybills said:


> Remmy said:
> 
> 
> > EI can work fine without weekly water changes, just do a leaner micro dose to avoid buildup. You can also adjust macro dosage if any issues arise
> ...


I am not using tap, but rather RO water remineralized with a ph of 6.8, KH at 4, GH at 6, and TDS always below 200 ppm. At least that's the goal, as my #1 desired inhabitant is Crystal Red Shrimp. I was recommended a remineralizer which so far has produced KH at 2 with TDS at 356! I am going to try Tom Barr's remineralizer next, unless I get a tried and true remineralizer recommended to me. My tank is new; 2 weeks set up. I have been told by other CRS keepers that many dose EI with remineralized ro water and are successful at keeping CRS in their heavily planted systems. I want to get this all hammered out and consistently testing ideal before I try my first batch of CRS. So knowing myself and my habits, I think EI is s better option.


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## Wendy1B (Jan 8, 2017)

York1 said:


> Ive used both and prefer PPS pro because I dont have to do 50% water changes every week. Other than that both work great


On GLA's site, they recommend a 50% weekly water change for both. (?)


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## Wendy1B (Jan 8, 2017)

Also, my tank is 17" bottom substrate to water surface, with 2 really high mounds about 9" from substrate to surface. These pics are day 1 & cloudy; water has become much clearer. Last pic is with addition of Threadfin Rainbows at day 10; I used a cycling product to make it safe to add them this early.


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## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

Threw out my premixed RO restorer after 2 cycles, I mix my own, also from GLA, less the Epsom salts.

Never kept any shrimp except for Amano's, and they are going on 2 years with CA in the 10-20 range, KH and GH around 2-3, never higher.

I am surprised that GLA would recommend a 50% water change for PPS-PRO, that was the entire reason why it was developed, to avoid unless necessary changes unless TDS rose against a benchmark. I guess as more empirical data comes in, that system is being modified.

All good.


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## DennisSingh (Nov 8, 2004)

Toxicity shouldn't exist in our aquariums. Trace amounts are so low even at ei levels, its pretty ridiculous this comes up. It got into my head too.



WHHOOOPS wrong topic...sorry


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## Wendy1B (Jan 8, 2017)

StrungOut said:


> Toxicity shouldn't exist in our aquariums. Trace amounts are so low even at ei levels, its pretty ridiculous this comes up. It got into my head too.
> 
> 
> 
> WHHOOOPS wrong topic...sorry


 lol, I've done this one before!


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Bobbybills said:


> Threw out my premixed RO restorer after 2 cycles, I mix my own, also from GLA, less the Epsom salts.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Probably to leave room for error for those that still overdose even when using the PPS-Pro. But agree that if advanced enough to use Pro method should not be over dosing. 


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## York1 (Dec 18, 2014)

Wendy1B said:


> On GLA's site, they recommend a 50% weekly water change for both. (?)


https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home/pps-pro


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## Wendy1B (Jan 8, 2017)

I have been dosing EI for 5 days now and already see a noticeable color enrichment on my Red plants, and new growth has been accelerated. I was dosing liquid ferts by Seachem. I'm really glad I made the switch!


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## clownplanted (Mar 3, 2017)

Wendy1B said:


> I have been dosing EI for 5 days now and already see a noticeable color enrichment on my Red plants, and new growth has been accelerated. I was dosing liquid ferts by Seachem. I'm really glad I made the switch!




I know exactly how you feel. I switched over from seachem to nilocG EI and I also noticed a good difference. My growth has been incredible and my red Amazon swords have never had this red of leaves 










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## steveo (May 25, 2012)

Bobbybills said:


> I am surprised that GLA would recommend a 50% water change for PPS-PRO, that was the entire reason why it was developed, to avoid unless necessary changes unless TDS rose against a benchmark. I guess as more empirical data comes in, that system is being modified.
> 
> All good.


Green Leaf Aquariums (GLA) are not making this recommendation. The PPS dosing system was both developed and is updated by Edward at Aquatic Plant Central. He even has a copyright on it. The GLA simply updates their information when any changes are made.

https://sites.google.com/site/aquaticplantfertilizer/home


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## Wendy1B (Jan 8, 2017)

I know exactly how you feel. I switched over from seachem to nilocG EI and I also noticed a good difference. My growth has been incredible and my red Amazon swords have never had this red of leaves 








Gorgeous!

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steveo said:


> Bobbybills said:
> 
> 
> > Green Leaf Aquariums (GLA) are not making this recommendation. The PPS dosing system was both developed and is updated by Edward at Aquatic Plant Central. He even has a copyright on it. The GLA simply updates their information when any changes are made.
> ...


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