# 57 Gallon Tank (Learning from my first planted tank)



## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Part 2: My process
*
I’ve tried to purchase items outside of retail so I can maximize my student budget.

I found a stand on Craigslist. It's a hardwood stand that sat under a marine tank. Covered with salt-water stains, I cleaned it; added brushed metal handles from the hardware store and applied black paint to polish it up.

The filter was also a used filter – an Eheim 2028 Pro II filter. The specifications are fantastic and a nice upgrade from an HOB filter. I cleaned it up and it worked well – I primed it on the old tank for a few weeks. 

Unfortunately, at the 11th hour, when I was attaching the plumbing the double intake cracked and I was left with an unusable filter. The fish had been bucket bound for 7 hours - I had to scramble – I called a few places with no spare parts available I had to get another filter - I rented a zip car and drove to a LFS to purchased a Fluval 406 or a Rena xp4. After making sure the 5/8 hoses work on the filter (I HATE the Fluval vacuum cleaner hoses and the fugly hoses on Renas) – I settled on a Fluval 406. Drove home – swapped the primed biomax and Purigen packets into the Fluval from the Eheim and set it up. Very easy – works very well.


I purchased an Aquaticlife’s 4 bulb fixture because it allows me to have 4x39W lights I can dial up the light to provide 156W for ~2.7W/gallon or dim down to 2 bulbs for ~1.4W/gallon. The unit has a built in timer, which allows me to manage the light banks independently, and it has one power cable, all of these things I love.

I am using prebuilt hangers because I looked into getting conduit and pipe benders/cutters but the project was prohibitive because I’d have to rent/borrow a car, buy the tools and I have little out door space to work.

The rest of the equipment was purchased through the forums, Craigslist and a couple of really helpful retailers – I’ve had fantastic customer service. PM me and I’ll let you know who helped me out.

*Equipment:
*
Tank - (nearly new) Illuminata 57
Stand – Used black hardwood stand
Filter – New Fluval 406 (The used Eheim 2028 needed a part during set up Monday night), 2 packs of Seachem Purigen and Fluval Biomax. Input/output through 5/8” hose, metal clamps, and PowerMen (TM) 17mm glass Lily pipes. 
Light – Aquaticlife 36” four lamp T5-HO fixture with moonlight LEDs, 6500K, and 5000K roseate bulbs. The unit will be hung with Universal Fixture Hangers.
Substrate – Up Aquasoil 4x9L (88lbs) I will use some of the old Ecco complete to seed the new Aquasoil and give more depth.
CO2 System - Atomic paintball CO2 regulator V2, 24oz (2lb) paintball tank, Atomic inline diffuser (16/22mm), CAL AQUA "Oracle" drop checker, Atomic bubble counter, brass check valve.
Heating System: Hydor ETH 300 In-Line Heater UL 300W (16mm).
Hoses: 5/8" clear with stainless steel automotive clamps.

*Plants:
*Moving over:
•	Onion Plant (Crinum thaianum)x2
•	Crypt. Balansae x3
•	Dwarf Anubas (Nana)
•	Amazon Swords (trying to decide if I want to bring them over) x3
•	Rotala H’ra (3 stems)


*New Plants:
*•	Tiger Lotus (Nymphaea lotus 'Zenkeri') X3
•	Rotalia Indicia X5
•	Crypt. Balansae x5
•	Dwarf hair grass x5
•	Christmas Moss (driftwood)

I’ve had the Eheim priming on the old tank for the last 3 weeks to make sure it gets seasoned with bacteria.

1.	Putting the driftwood together
2.	Plumbing the heater, CO2 on the Eheim
3.	Attach the background
4.	Attach the hangers to stand
5.	Moving fish
6.	Move Tank
7.	Set up the substrate
8.	Setup the wood and rocks
9.	Plant
10.	Fill and ready
11.	Add the fish


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Part 3: Driftwood
*
I purchased some driftwood on the forums last year. I didn't touch it till last week. Soaked it for a week and gave up and decided to just attach to slate. I boiled it first and then used stainless steel screws and a masonry bit to attach it to the slate.

3 hours of "sculpting" and trying to make it look good while remaining natural...


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Part 4: Tank Prep
*
So I purchased some tinted window film online and had it cut and shipped to me. using soapy water you attach and squeegee it to the glass. Pretty simple stuff - 2 layers got the desired black and it's removable. I have 2 extra layers incase.

I also attached the hangers for the lights. I would have gone the DIY way, but living in an apartment with no car means everything is shipped to me or I rent a car to get to Home Depot. It's just more production than I was willing to invest. The hangers were ~$95 and built for this purpose.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Part 5: Where the rubber meets the road
*
I had to call a friend to help with this on Monday. The tank is too heavy to move.

He arrived at noon. At 7 I was up, working on the plumbing, staging the equipment, and then dismantling the old tank and putting the fish in a bucket with the filter, some plants and a heater.

We moved the old tank and stand, swept up and moved the new tank and stand into place.


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## psalm18.2 (Oct 16, 2010)

Like it already.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Part 6: Aquascaping *

If you have OCD do not do attempt this 

I layed out a base layer of old ecco complete with as much mulm from the old tank at the base of the new. The old stuff will be high in nitrogenous matter and old bacteria from the tank.

Placed the driftwood on the old stuff.

Poured 2.5 bags of the Up Aqua Soil - Great stuff so far. Sculpted the substrate around the wood.

Ate lunch... 

Started grabbing the plants from my temporary 10 gallon incubator tank that I set up to hold the new plants - 6 Watts/gallon and CO2 injection with ferts.... I needed to make them happy till the transition.

Dwarf hair grass separation is an exercise in pain...


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Part 7: Add water and pray...*

So I saw this on Oliver Knott's Youtube videos.

You add newspaper and plastic foil (garbage bags) to soften the blow of water. I don't have a pump or a ginormous hose to pump water across the room so buckets and hands for ~57 gallons... It felt like hours


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Part 8: Where it hit the fan...*

Removing all the paper and plastic and wow, it was intact, a few small pieces needed to be replanted but *amazeballs!*

Grabbed the filter/etc to plumb into the cabinet. I had precut and attached the heater/CO2 diffuser, lily pipes, reactor, etc... Staged it all - I just needed to place them and attach the hoses - Easy, right!

Not so fast.

Eheim inputs cracked and leaked - Thank G*d all right in front of me - If it had happened a few hours later - disaster. 

I scrambled to get a spare part, but no luck and I was beyond the *"go or no-go"* stage, so I rented a Zip car online, hightailed it to a LFS to check out a Fluval 406 or Rena xp4. I chose the Fluval and it seems like a pretty well built, very quiet filter. 
Moved all the primed media to the new filter and she started quickly and magic... 

Set up the lights (with the help a level and my roommate) and *BAM* it looks like a tank with water, rocks, pants, and soil... You'd think I won the lottery....

I lost 2 neons and an oto in the bucket - poor guys were stressed 

I made sure everything was running, adjusted the temp to match the bucket temp.

I quickly bagged up the new fish and placed them in tupperwear, acclimated and added them.

*New Tank Below:*


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Part 9... Does it ever end??* 

I woke up to a slightly tinted tank. I checked the water conditions and did a 20% water change. fish were hungry buggers, got fed.

Adjusted the CO2 - the diffuser's little bubbles get dissolved before they make it into the tank. 2-3bps and the two drop checkers are green. I will remove one, but I wanted to make sure the CO2 was even.

I also mounted the old filter to add to the bio cleaning and bacteria seeding. lastly at the advice of the LFS I added some Smart Start Complete and went to work and class...


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Final thought thus far*

Today the water was crisp - Daily water changes after testing conditions.

In a week, I'll remove the extra filter and drop checker.

I am also going to push the timing of the lights and CO2 back so the tank lights up at 12 so it's on when I get home from work/school. 

Currently I have:


3 Angels
1 oto  his/her buddy died in the move
2 corys
3 neons  two of their buddies died in the move
1 hillstream loach

When the tank stabilizes and the conditions are good, what critters to add??

12 piraña, muhahaha :icon_mrgr

No seriously, probably another 15 neons or a mix of neons and another colorful schooling fish.
I know the Angels are supposed to eat them but thus far, they are too fat to bother...
A few more oto cats to clean...

I don't want to over populate. I actually like sparsely populated tanks - it feels right. The school of neons is probably 90% gonna happen and 2-3 more oto cats as well.

Suggestions, comments, feedback (please be kind :redface

Here's a video of it this morning Day 2

P.S. You can see a video of the tank this morning with the CO2 in action here.
Someone wanted to see how the diffuser works and I took a video to demonstrate.

P.S.S. The Tiger lotuses is are on their way as is more dwarf hair grass for the right side of the tank. There's some Christmas moss coming as well for the driftwood. I couldn't stage everything to arrive at the same time.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

psalm18.2 said:


> Like it already.


Thanks


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## orangelss (Sep 28, 2009)

That is a very nice set-up! I like the rimless look and like you found a great deal on craigslist for one. Good luck, everything looks well on its way. What in-line diffusor are you using?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

orangelss said:


> That is a very nice set-up! I like the rimless look and like you found a great deal on craigslist for one. Good luck, everything looks well on its way. What in-line diffusor are you using?


Thank you  It's in the middle of the living room so I wanted it to look a bit more "professional" and less like I'm 5 and I have a goldfish bowl :tongue:

I'm still waiting for some additional plants that are in transit - The tiger lotus will be a cool centerpiece plant and in 1-2 months things should be green 

Any opinions on fish?


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## orangelss (Sep 28, 2009)

I love South American cihlids so I'm bias. Red Arc Pencilfish are very striking but a little delicate. The same with Rummy Nose Tetras but they make for a beautiful display.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

orangelss said:


> I love South American cihlids so I'm bias. Red Arc Pencilfish are very striking but a little delicate. The same with Rummy Nose Tetras but they make for a beautiful display.


The Red Arc Pencilfish looks beautiful! *edit* I just did a little research and they look like a lot of work


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

orangelss said:


> That is a very nice set-up! I like the rimless look and like you found a great deal on craigslist for one. Good luck, everything looks well on its way. What in-line diffusor are you using?


I'm using an Atomic inline diffuser from GLA - it's small and works pretty well thus far.


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Sweet tank! roud: Very simple/clean looking. Fish stocking wise, I would add some more cories. They love being in groups.


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## The Gipper (Sep 9, 2003)

Where did u get the light hanger


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Sweet tank! roud: Very simple/clean looking. Fish stocking wise, I would add some more cories. They love being in groups.


Thanks! I am resisting turning it into a circus show of plants and fish  I have two and the previous tank wasn't big enough for more. I can probably get 2 more and 2-3 more oto cats. I'm waiting for the water conditions to get stable and a little algae to appear - no starving fish


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

The Gipper said:


> Where did u get the light hanger


I purchased it through Petstore.com/Marinedepot.com - Their customer support treated me well - They messed up and thought they didn't ship it on time so I got a call with an explanation and they next day air'd me another hanger at no charge. I got the first one yesterday, lol. I got a return UPS label and I'm sending it back.

It's designed to hold up to 25lbs per hanger so 50lbs for two. Very adjustable and it's painted a nice black powder coat. Here's the link for it's specs


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Update: Day 3*

Happy Thursday!

*Tested the water:*
pH:6.4
NO2: .25 ppm 
NO3: between 40 and 50 ppm 
Did a 20% water change 
*Retested and:*
pH: 6.6
NO2: 0-.25 ppm
NO3: 20-30 ppm

Fed the hungry buggers - once I see no NO2 and a stable NO3, I'll remove the old Aquaclear and consider adding more fish. I'm glad the Hydor is doing it's job keeping the water at a steady 80 degrees.

I'm gonna try to head to the *GWAPA* meeting this weekend and see if I can get more *hairgrass* - I inquired about my order for extra *hairgrass* and apparently they are back ordered. I asked for *HC* or nothing. 

Do you think *glosso* or *HC* would look better with *hairgrass*?

I'm just not sure I want the maintenance and I've read *glosso* is a pain in the a** to grow even with high light and CO2


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## bighollywood (Nov 27, 2011)

I love that angel.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks  I got her from a LFS about 2 years ago.

He has a breeder that makes them bright orange. His Angel tank is full of them. 
Let me know if you want his deets in PM. You can purchase some.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

I'm seriously considering Discus. Saw a Pigeon Blood on Youtube and fell in love. I contacted an online retailer and started asking requirements and compatibility etc. 

I just can't do the daily water changes and he said once a week is okay since I'm not breeding them.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Update: Day 4*

TGIF!

*Tested the water:
*pH:6.4
NH4/3: 0 ppm
NO2: 0 ppm 
NO3: between 20-30 ppm 
Did a 20% water change 

It's cycled! :hihi:

I have had a bad experience ordering plants online. The plants are nothing special: dwarf hair grass, and red tiger lotuses. One delivery arrived with 2 dead lotuses and one with a single leaf. I have planted that with hope. Another place I ordered from last Friday with the knowledge that it was all in stock and gonna ship next day on Tuesday. Didin't hear a peep so I emailed them for more information on Wednesday evening and got excuses about needing special instructions for no reason and- the hairgrass is backordered for two weeks... 

Le sigh...

On the bright side - I ordered some Christmas moss through Aquabid and it arrived on time and looking beautiful - tied some to the driftwood while doing the water change. Can't wait to see how that develops!

But I've done some research on Discus and I think I will be purchasing a few soon. Just trying to decide on which types the Pigeon blood/dragon's are really sweet looking fish.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

SunDragon your tank looks nice and your fish look happy with more room to play but keep checking those nitrates and ammonia you might not be done.

We have a plant group with members all around you and we are having a meeting in Catonsville tomorrow, click the GWAPA logo below and check the website for the February meeting. You are welcome to come at any time but you need to be a member ($20) to get in on the auction, bags & bags of plants for 1,2,3 bucks each, occasionally a bag o shrimp, fish, tanks, filter, etc. plus we do group buys and best of all we eat like pigs and it's usually a great layout of food. I read that you have no car so I know that makes it harder but bring a friend (driver) it's no problem, click below and check us out or sent me a pm if you have any questions.

Keep up the good work on your tank.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> SunDragon your tank looks nice and your fish look happy with more room to play but keep checking those nitrates and ammonia you might not be done.
> 
> We have a plant group with members all around you and we are having a meeting in Catonsville tomorrow, click the GWAPA logo below and check the website for the February meeting. You are welcome to come at any time but you need to be a member ($20) to get in on the auction, bags & bags of plants for 1,2,3 bucks each, occasionally a bag o shrimp, fish, tanks, filter, etc. plus we do group buys and best of all we eat like pigs and it's usually a great layout of food. I read that you have no car so I know that makes it harder but bring a friend (driver) it's no problem, click below and check us out or sent me a pm if you have any questions.
> 
> Keep up the good work on your tank.


Hey 150EH 

Thanks for the advice - I will keep doing that daily for about another week to make sure things stabilize. 

I'm already a member - Renewed my dues last week.
I'm planning on renting a zip car for a few hours and coming up to Catonsville tomorrow. I'm gonna bring a light and 18" Amazon sword that needs a home. I also have an Eheim Pro II 2028 that needs a new home as well. I'll bring that along and see if anyone wants it.

Would it be okay to ask members on the GWAPA forum to see if they have dwarf hair grass and Red tiger lotuses, and are planning to bring them to the meeting?


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## orangelss (Sep 28, 2009)

Three breeders that I have ordered from and really have extreamly high quality fish and excellent shipping is
Macs Discus: http://macsdiscus.com/ 
Discus Madness: http://www.discusmadness.com/
Rocky Mountain Discus: http://www.rockymountaindiscus.com/

The first two have huge selections of colors and sizs. Discus Madness has very good color pictures. I have had fish shipped from all three several times. Great customer service and first rate fish!


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

People ask all the time and it's a good idea to ask in the water flea market and you want to check your light with the new PAR meter, I was wondering about the dead Eheim as they are too good and expensive to throw out and can be fixed somehow.

I sold a 2215 that I owned and used everyday for 7 years, I had just put in a new 2217 impeller and a new gasket for the motor head and I got $35 for it but they will ask if you have a minimum but I didn't. But I used it for 4 or 5 months after I installed the new parts so I feel like it was a good deal all the way around and it will last the new owner for another 7 years.

Well too cool that your already a member and I'll see you at the meeting.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

orangelss said:


> Three breeders that I have ordered from and really have extreamly high quality fish and excellent shipping is
> Macs Discus: http://macsdiscus.com/
> Discus Madness: http://www.discusmadness.com/
> Rocky Mountain Discus: http://www.rockymountaindiscus.com/
> ...


Thank you!!!

I've been in contact with Discus Madness. Great at answering questions. I'm weary of shipping a fish that's on the delicate side, but I guess it happens all the time.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> People ask all the time and it's a good idea to ask in the water flea market and you want to check your light with the new PAR meter, I was wondering about the dead Eheim as they are too good and expensive to throw out and can be fixed somehow.
> 
> I sold a 2215 that I owned and used everyday for 7 years, I had just put in a new 2217 impeller and a new gasket for the motor head and I got $35 for it but they will ask if you have a minimum but I didn't. But I used it for 4 or 5 months after I installed the new parts so I feel like it was a good deal all the way around and it will last the new owner for another 7 years.
> 
> Well too cool that your already a member and I'll see you at the meeting.


I just posted a few questions on the flea market, good advice!

It's a great filter! quiet, no leaks - the double tap unit - Eheim 7444578 - broke and I couldn't let the fish wait for a spare part to ship so I purchased a Fluval 406 from a LFS - not cheap. I won't get rid of the Eheim or let it go for nothing as I can order the part and in a week it will can be up and running. I almost don't want to sell it - but if I keep it I will be tempted to MTS... Resistance is futile :icon_eek:

The Fluval 406, btw, is whisper smooth, easy to setup, and prime.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Update: Almost a week.
*
I added some cardinal tetra to make a school - The remaining 3 neons were really stressed and are now schooling with them - 10 total. I'll consider adding 5 more in a bit to make the school fill out. It's interesting to see the size difference between the mature neons and the young cardinals - The mature female neon is 2x the size of the cardinals.

I also added 2 otos to the surviving one - they like schools and algae cleaning is a must.

I added some Dwarf Baby Tears - which should really be called *"Grown man crying"* - what a pain in the a$$ :icon_evil
The patch will *hopefully* fill out - currently, like the dwarf hair grass, it's hair club for men in bunches a few cm apart. We'll see which one I like better or just keep both. This is all about experimenting.










*The nearly dead Red Tiger Lotus is recovering and I got 3 more tiny ones from the GWAPA meeting. *



















Lastly I added some Christmas moss to the driftwood. I'm gonna see how this grows. I love the way the wood looks bare, but a few patches will make it look more natural. 

*The Rotala H'ra is starting to get red  Which means it's happy - there's enough iron, light, and CO2.*










*Sorry about the bad lighting but here's what it looks like 6 days later right after the additions.*


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

You tank looks nice and the Baby Tears and Dwarf Hairgrass should fill in nicely as long as there are no chiclids in your tank, they like to tug on things and re-arrange the substrate. I would think your Tiger Lotus may spring back too but I'm not quite sure if they melt like Crypts every time you move them or change anything in the tank.

It's too bad you didn't sell your filter and I think the price was fine but the whole auction was unusually small and slow, nobody was in a real spending mood and almost everything sold for $2 with only a couple exceptions. Well now that you know where to get really cheap plants and just about any variety you'll need that filter for your new tank, I think you came in too late too see Cavan's talk on the plant of the month but I think he works for the Smithsonian Institute and most of his plants are one of only a few in the country so that's why the bidding gets crazy when his plants are for sale.

Good luck with your tank and I hope to see you at the next meet.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

I almost forgot, you might want to add a link back to your journal in your signature line, it just makes it easy for people to find you and you'll get a lot more feed back on your tank too.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> You tank looks nice and the Baby Tears and Dwarf Hairgrass should fill in nicely as long as there are no chiclids in your tank, they like to tug on things and re-arrange the substrate. I would think your Tiger Lotus may spring back too but I'm not quite sure if they melt like Crypts every time you move them or change anything in the tank.
> 
> It's too bad you didn't sell your filter and I think the price was fine but the whole auction was unusually small and slow, nobody was in a real spending mood and almost everything sold for $2 with only a couple exceptions. Well now that you know where to get really cheap plants and just about any variety you'll need that filter for your new tank, I think you came in too late too see Cavan's talk on the plant of the month but I think he works for the Smithsonian Institute and most of his plants are one of only a few in the country so that's why the bidding gets crazy when his plants are for sale.
> 
> Good luck with your tank and I hope to see you at the next meet.


Thanks! I have had 2 bites on Craigslist. I priced it low - if it doesn't sell this week, I'll just pay $30 get the part and keep it. I saw some of the pictures that were sitting on the right hand side of the room. Really cool! I'll be back again - I have to rent a car to make it out to the burbs - It was an hour drive from DC this time, but it's great being able to talk to plant/fish people, haha.




> I almost forgot, you might want to add a link back to your journal in your signature line, it just makes it easy for people to find you and you'll get a lot more feed back on your tank too.


Just did that!


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Video update*

Moved the pipes to one side as recommended. Dialed down the CO2 to 2bps cuz I was gassing the angels 

*Youtube: *Only the roseate bank of lights is on 

I'll decide to dial down the CO2 more if they are still timid tomorrow AM.


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Looking good! That light fixture sure looks pricey.  Oh and beautiful angels.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Looking good! That light fixture sure looks pricey.  Oh and beautiful angels.


Haha, thanks! I asked a few "fish" friends and they recommended spending money for a good unit in the long run.

I negotiated a 10% discount when I called the retailer :hihi: It wasn't super expensive and ended up being cheaper than the Coralife quad bulb at the LFS. 

The digital timer and single power cord for 3 banks of lights make it easy to use.


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## 150EH (Dec 6, 2004)

Looks good and I like you journal link, it makes finding you so much easier. If you want to go to the next meeting or one in the near future, make a post at GWAPA that you need a ride because with members in MD & VA you are right in the middle.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

150EH said:


> Looks good and I like you journal link, it makes finding you so much easier. If you want to go to the next meeting or one in the near future, make a post at GWAPA that you need a ride because with members in MD & VA you are right in the middle.


Thanks! Ditto on your tank. I'll ask - I feel bad asking people to go out of their way - I will need to buy a plant book so I can quickly look up the scientific names of the plants - I was busy on my phone trying to google them as all of you bid, haha


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## bif24701 (Jan 3, 2012)

How do you like the Fluval 406? I just purchased one, I've had a 305 for a year now and very very happy with it.


5+ Aquariums
Reef, Planted, African Chiclids, soon to be: Discus


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

bif24701 said:


> How do you like the Fluval 406? I just purchased one, I've had a 305 for a year now and very very happy with it.
> 
> 
> 5+ Aquariums
> Reef, Planted, African Chiclids, soon to be: Discus


Thus far it's been good. No leaks, very quiet and it primes well considering the input/exhaust lines are partially horizontal. 

I wish they would make canister filters wider and shorter so we'd have more room between the top of the filter and the bottom of the tank. I've shortened the line between the filter and the CO2 diffuser so there is less of a bend right out of the filter.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Zaftig otos - I thought I had posted this earlier - guess not.

I was afraid they would be starving with little visible algae (they haven't eaten anything else I've given them) but saw a fat one swim past and land on the driftwood while I was checking the water conditions.


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## AlecFish (Nov 26, 2011)

I saw your Day 9 update on your tank. What do you mean by the Angels being gassed?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

A week after the tank was setup they started hiding and I asked a few people, they said I may have the CO2 turned up too high - I dropped it with no change - brought it back up with no change.

After about a week, they started coming out and eating regularly - It may have been my constant meddling in their tank, lol


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Update Day 18*

Initial algae bloom at two weeks is on full - nothing weird, just green glass and the rocks/wood are showing a dusting.

The dwarf hair grass is looking less like hair plugs for men and spreading in nicely. I'm going to order some more dwarf HG and pull out the HC that I have on the right side - I'm not sure I like the way it looks in this tank, and I keep finding it floating and have to use tweezers to replant every few days.

The christmas moss I got on Aquabid was beautiful green, now it's got some brown patches and it's not as bright green. I'm not sure if it's just the initial algae bloom of a new tank or the moss is adjusting. I'm dosing with excel, iron and micro ferts. I'm about to order macros, but the rest of the plants are growing well... I will wait this out. I thought moss was pretty hard to kill 

*Here's a video in HD:* *link*

I ordered more clean up crew:

2 zebra otos (to add to the 3 otos that I have). 
4 Caridina Babaulti green (though, I'm thinking of switching to amanos because they are better at cleaning algae).
6 Cardinals to increase the current population.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Went to CCA (Capital Cichlid Association) and met Msjinkzd! She had come down to attend and brought my critters! Nothing better than hand delivery. The driftwood she had as "leftovers" were really nice pieces. I would have bought a few pieces had I the room.

Switched the Caridina Babaulti green with Amanos! Not as pretty but they work harder. She included a few more in case my angels wanted shrimp. Thus far they are making salad out of the algae and the angels ignore them like the cardinals. The Zebra Otos are really cool, and huge 

Zip car issues required a quick retreat back to the D of C


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Lurving da otos :fish:


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## Bettacrazy (May 22, 2011)

I think a pair of rams would look really nice in there.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Bettacrazy said:


> I think a pair of rams would look really nice in there.


:thumbsup:

Any recommendations?


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## Bettacrazy (May 22, 2011)

german blue rams.


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## omeezy (Feb 3, 2012)

+1 ^^


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## Gookis (Dec 28, 2010)

Agree with the GBR's! I miss them! I have happy group of Apistos now.

I also added a couple of Zebra Otos to my tank recently (same exact tank actually) and love them!!

Nice work and I too love that Angel!

Matt


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks! I have two caves currently occupied by amanos. They formed at the bottom of the driftwood around rocks. I don't know much about apistos but they like caves?

The zebra otos are larger than my other otos.

I've seen a lot of really cool apisto pictures but finding a nice pair - I like the red ones as well. Where's a good place to purchase some?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Gookis said:


> same exact tank actually
> Matt


Your tank looks mighty familiar  Really sweet looking! love how driftwood contrasts the rocks on the other side.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Update Day 25:*

*Here's a video in HD
*

*Plants:*

The dwarf baby tears is growing nice and green but at a glacial pace. I'll let it grow in pockets around the driftwood and stones but I've given up on the idea it's going to expand into a carpet. The dwarf hair grass by comparison has been growing crazy and is slowly overtaking it. There are two bunches on the right that haven't expanded and I suspect I planted them with cotton so their roots are trapped. I'll fix that shortly. I'm also moving the rocks to piles near the driftwood as the dwarf hair grass expands so there are no holes. 

The rest of the plants are growing well, the Anubias hasn't rooted to the driftwood yet, but it's getting there. 

The Rotala are picking up red/pink at their tips and bushing up from the last trim. I'm going to wait till they get a little taller before I do another trim.

Lastly, the Red Tiger Lotus that nearly died in shipping has bounced back, and the other ones from GWAPA are growing well.

*Equipment:*

I'm putting a barbed Y and adding my spare lily intake to have two going into one to increase the flow for the 406. I'd rather have too much flow and dial back then not enough. I'm going to switch out the carbon for Seachem Matrix. I used the carbon initially to remove any toxins from initial setup but I don't use carbon normally. I'm going to swap out the Biomax with Matrix one basket every month. More bio is always good and the Seachem Purigen does wonders polishing.

I'm also going to move the output lily to the front and the input on the back side of it like Amano/Knott's tanks. I wasn't sure how to set it up and now after a bit of study, the output is directed across the front where there aren't as many plants.

*Fauna:*

10 more Amanos en route from Msjinkzd for aglae clean up duty. SO not looking forward to them climbing up the net onto my arm again... :eek5:

I just ordered the two Apistos pictured below. I may add a couple of Blue Rams if I think the tank can handle additional bioload.

I am considering Discus, but it's a big commitment - I'd buy adults so I don't deal with the stunted growth/water quality issue and they are hardier fish. It's the 50% water change 2x a week that's a bit much. *Sundragon* is lazy :biggrin:

Any suggestions on what to put in the background on the right? 

I want something tall and wondering if the crypts will expand out with baby crypts or should I just go ahead and plant a few more.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*New Tank Syndrome after a water change and filter service* 

Not sure what I did - I've owned fish for a while and I know all the rules for avoiding new tank syndrome.

Saturday - did a 20% water change and serviced the 406 by removing the carbon and swapping out the purigen with fresh bags. I rinsed the sponge and biomax in declorinated fresh warm water and added Seachem Matrix to the basket that used to hold the carbon. 

All day things were well, had St. Patty's day party and left the lights on - tank looked great, no weird things going on. At 1:30 I went to bed and switched off the lights manually.

Sunday morning I got up and my Koi angel was dead, upside down. Two amano shrimp had gone carpet surfing, one of the last neons and the chinese Hillstream Loach were dead...

I bought that koi at 1/2 it's size and it was a good 6+ inches nose to tail - :icon_frow

The other two angels were fine, the cardinals were up at the top gasping for air and the otos and corys were making trips up to get air...

Quickly started a water change - and tested the water.

pH - 6.4
NH3/4 - 0 free (Seachem)
NO2 - 1ppm
NO3 - 10-20ppm 

Nitrite spike? What the...?

Did a 50% water change, restested and NO2 - 0 ppm

Went ziplining all day. Came home around 9 and the fish were distressed but none were dead - Started a water change and tested the water again.

pH - 6.4
NH3/4 - 0 free (Seachem)
NO2 - 0.5 ppm
NO3 - 10 ppm 

Changed 50% of the water.

This morning woke up to only the otos going up for gasps.

Tested the water and started a water change.

pH - 6.4
NH3/4 - 0 free (Seachem)
NO2 - under 0.25 ppm
NO3 - 10 ppm 

Changed 20% of the water

tested NO2 again - 0 ppm

Headed to the office today. I'll test it when I get home and do another W/C if necessary.

It totally caught me off guard - I used all the precautions on Saturday - Did my usual routine. Only difference was the water used to rinse the filter material was Prime treated warm fresh water. 

_It wasn't hot, but maybe the warmer water killed the bacteria off? _

They were fine all day from the time of water change (noon) to 1:30 AM and nearly dead at 10 AM. 

I'm trying to trace my steps and I've looked up New Tank Syndrome (NTS) after water changes online and I did everything right as far as I can tell. I'm weary of how long this will progress and I don't want to do whatever that caused this again. 

Sigh


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## Erica (Dec 16, 2010)

How long does a paintball tank last you in this setup? I'm getting the same equipment for my 40B, so I'm curious how often I'm going to have to get refills.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Erica said:


> How long does a paintball tank last you in this setup? I'm getting the same equipment for my 40B, so I'm curious how often I'm going to have to get refills.


Currently it's running at 1 - 1.5bps to keep the pH/KH calc to make the CO2 in the 24 degree range - I'd say about 6+ months would be a safe bet. I'd get two filled and when one dies, just swap and take the other in for refill.


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## Erica (Dec 16, 2010)

Wow, I didn't expect it to last that long. Thanks!


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

I will update when it's dead to give an actual idea instead of estimated. If you run a higher bubble count it will die out sooner.


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## Gookis (Dec 28, 2010)

Sorry to hear about the fish troubles; that koi was gorgeous.

Your dwarf hair looks great filled in!

Matt


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks, I know where to get more - I almost would rather buy 4 adult discus once the water is stable and I figure out what's going on. I'll figure it out. 

The Apistos arrived this morning, I thought the hungsloi II would be colorful, but they are still juvies and will develop. the viejita ******** are larger and showing - beautiful color - Wetspot aquatics did a great job in shipping.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

EDIT: I corrected the species of the fish.

Water has stabilized - The nitrite spike and CO2 was too much - I will be more careful to alternate tank cleaning and filter cleaning so they don't happen on the same day. I'm also reducing the CO2 from 1.5bps to 1bps so there is a larger margin of error. At 1.5 bps, it's about 30ppm.

The 4 new Apistos came on Monday and are doing well. The ******* is a mean little bugger - he's the smaller of the two males and pretty much chases anything including the angels and my hand when it gets too near his mancave... 

*Apisto. macmasteri (sold as viejita ******* Male)* 










*Apisto. macmasteri (sold as viejita ******* Male) male on the left. female racing back to the driftwood cave*










*Both giving me 'tude for getting to close to the tank*










I swapped some christmas moss for Fissiden and Staurogyne repens (bib lettuce). Thank you *Gookis*! 

I tore out the baby tears because it wasn't looking as good as I'd hoped. I planted the S. repens. I'm currently trying to decide where to plant the S. repens, I like the dwarf hair grass as ground cover - maybe I can have the repens grow around the driftwood.

I'm looking for a plant to tie to the driftwood near the surface to grow out of the water. Cool leaves/flowers get bonus points. 

Staurogyne repens










Tank this morning - 31 days from start


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Update Day 36: As much as I think I know, I'm a noob*

1. Algae bloom is under control (hopefully). The tank is new and I know they all go through this so I'm trying to be careful to get the water right.

2. The Apistos are not what I expected. I thought the two colorful ones are males... WRONG  (the labels above are wrong)

I figured this out with the help of one of Anthony at WetSpot. This morning one of the "females" colored up and started displaying for the other female... ACK Three male apistos!?!? I sent him photos and he set me straight.

Edit: The Blue is a male A. Apisto. macmasteri (sold as viejita ******* Male) and the Yellow is a female macmasteri. I thought the females are drab, but not in line bread Apistos. 

The two drab ones are just immature hongsloi type 2s and apparently one just hit puberty, lol.

3. With the death of my favorite orange koi  The remaining angels are all doing their mating dance... Well, If they start breeding, it will but a kibosh on my wanting to add Discus or more angels. 

The mature Apisos have also paired up...


Forgive the bubbles, I just did a 30% water change


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## aXio (May 29, 2011)

Very beautiful tank. Love the apistos


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## odie (Dec 29, 2009)

Following along!!


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Thank you, I'm learning a lot.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Update: Growing algae like it's my job! :eek5:

I'm adjusting lights, ferts, and mowing the lawn and yanking weeds... :biggrin:

About to drop the go for an army of shrimp to assist in the deforestation.

I will post pics and updates when things settle down :redface:


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Well, Day 47 and finally the hair algae is slowly going away. 

I learned that I had my lights too close to the surface and on too long. Honestly, they need to sell hangers with T5HO lights because the 4" legs that are included pretty much guarantee too much light 

Moved them up and adjusted photo period and bam hair algae is going away.

The army (30) of amano shrimp are still on their way from Msjinkzd (who rocks). I'm also getting a small school of Coral Red Pencilfish for more color.

I also started dosing macro ferts and rotala among other plants decided to become a weed...

I hope the algae continues to go away... (fingers crossed)

Edit: Sorry for the blurry pics, I need a better camera (SLR) than my iPhone


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## tharsis (Oct 9, 2009)

Very nice! I love the apistos! 

That looks like a perfect little nook for the tank, do you have a shot of the whole room?


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

That's a beautiful tank and colorful fish. Also I like the depth of the tank.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

tharsis said:


> Very nice! I love the apistos!
> 
> That looks like a perfect little nook for the tank, do you have a shot of the whole room?


Thank you, it sits in the transition of kitchen to livingroom next to the fireplace. I'll try to take a better picture


Sent from my iPhone using Carrier pigeon.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

GMYukonon24s said:


> That's a beautiful tank and colorful fish. Also I like the depth of the tank.


Thanks, someone on the thread said they would look great in the tank - never thought of an apisto but after some research, I can't imagine the tank without them. The a. hongsloi are coloring up - cant wait till they mature. 


Sent from my iPhone using Carrier pigeon.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Coral Red Pencilfish! They seem to be acclimating well.

Though, the 30 amano shrimp I also bought aren't doing so well. 16 have died in the last 24 hours. I have a thread up on that trying to figure out what I did wrong 

Mistaken double shipment of Crypt wendtii "Florida Sunset". I contacted the seller and they told me to keep so I'm looking forward to the added color!

The A. hongsloi pair are coloring up nicely.

I'm selling my paired angels to make room for something else 

P.S. I need a new camera, the iPhone isn't cutting it, lol


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

Hey Sundragon! Tank is lookin good.roud:. Sorry to here about the amanos (they look like shrimp cocktail :hihi:....sorry, that was mean). Love the pencils!  Always wanted them. And beautiful apisto! 

Who ever buys your angels is going to be one lucky fella.


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## evan.m (Feb 28, 2011)

Sounds like its all gonna work out, but what's a Zip car?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Hey Sundragon! Tank is lookin good.roud:. Sorry to here about the amanos (they look like shrimp cocktail :hihi:....sorry, that was mean). Love the pencils!  Always wanted them. And beautiful apisto!
> 
> Who ever buys your angels is going to be one lucky fella.


Thanks, she's a GWAPA member - I hope they get a nice home and make a lot of angel babies!

They smelled like shrimp cocktail, lol

I love apistos - not afraid of anything!


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

evan.m said:


> Sounds like its all gonna work out, but what's a Zip car?


It's a rental car by the hour. They have the all over DC, the closest is a block away. I walk to work and school, and most of DC is walk/metro/cab accessible. If I need a car for a few hours, I just use www.zipcar.com

*commercial over* :biggrin:


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## LetThereBeFish (Dec 7, 2011)

sundragon said:


> Thanks, she's a GWAPA member - I hope they get a nice home and make a lot of angel babies!
> 
> They smelled like shrimp cocktail, lol
> 
> I love apistos - not afraid of anything!


Haha, what I find weird is how the shrimp turned pink. I thought that only happens when they are cooked.... wait...Your not going loopy and eating your own shrimp are you? :wink:


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

LetThereBeFish said:


> Haha, what I find weird is how the shrimp turned pink. I thought that only happens when they are cooked.... wait...Your not going loopy and eating your own shrimp are you? :wink:


I did no cooking - that I know of - LOL 

Maybe someone knows why they turn pink - other than cooking and I'll know why they are dying in 24-48 hours


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## Studman0143 (Mar 20, 2011)

Can I ask where you purchased your pencilfish? My LFS had them for one week and it was before I had my tank setup and now I can't find them anywhere. I hate it!


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

I bought them from Rachel - AKA Msjinkzd.

Her livestock is fantastic and great service. She sells on here as well. Tell her Shahriar sent ya 

My penciflish have started to color up nicely and display for the females.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

The Apisto. macmasteri have chosen a cave and the female is staying in there all the time... I can't see inside to know if there are fry.

The male macmasteri is very fond of shrimp...


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

So a few things have happened.

I found shrimp surviving... LoL Trying to figure out what to do next - order more amano shrimp cocktail? 

The Koralia nano 240 is doing a good job moving water without blowing plants or looking fugly in the tank (I hate seeing equipment or hoses in the water).

The apistos keep doing their tail flirting dance. I'm going to try to record it because it's funny. The male tilts sideways and then flashes his butt at the females... Wondering if this works in a bar situation 

hair algae is sloooooooowly receding but not gone. An army of amanos would have made short work of this but alas, I'm still trying to figure it out.

Oh and I tied an anubias to the driftwood sticking out of the water... The leaves died off, so I'm thinking it has to put out emersed leaves.

Lastly the lily pipe worked better for CO2 - I've had to hike it up with the output jet for some reason. I may switch back and see how it works.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

nice looking tank and sorry to hear about the loss of the koi angel and amanos. Are you still planning on getting discus?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

VadimShevchuk said:


> nice looking tank and sorry to hear about the loss of the koi angel and amanos. Are you still planning on getting discus?


Thanks! Yes, if I do - I will buy adults instead of juvies because they are hardier and I won't have to deal with growth issues. I was told it's a bit more expensive, but they are ultimately easier to keep.


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## CorallineAlgae (Apr 8, 2012)

Any updates? This has been great reading and your tank is beautiful.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

CorallineAlgae said:


> Any updates? This has been great reading and your tank is beautiful.


Thanks! I've been enjoying it for the most part - School has kept me busy so I'm not updating as much.

The Apisto. macmasteri male got hole in the head and died - I didn't realize what was going on and when I realized, I started treatment but to no avail. The other fish including the Apistos seem fine and haven't shown any symptoms. :icon_sad:

I did a 3 day black out because I was still having residual string algae issues. It wiped out the algae and my tiger lotuses - All of them save one. The tank is clean now but for future reference, I will remove the lotuses and place them in a sunny area for 3 days - All of mine melted and never recovered. :icon_sad:

I will be replacing the lotuses and get another male macmasteri - One of the most beautiful fish I've owned. :smile:

I added 8 1" tiger barbs, they are fun to watch. I'll post pictures soon :fish:


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

8 more weeks of school and I've been busy traveling for work. (edit: 8 more weeks till I'm done with Grad School!)

Here's the update... Who notices a difference?

There are 8 Tiger barbs, and a whooooole lot more Staurogyne repens, lol the stuff is growing like a weed. I'm starting to let it take over where the dwarf hair grass isn't doing so hot. I reduced the lighting and all the hair algae issues are gone.

3-22-2012 - Staurogyne repens


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

*Update 8 months*

Update - working on getting the dwarf hair grass to come back thick without bringing on the onslaught of algae - I'm also gonna purchase 4 more cardinals.

As the Staurogyne repens continues to grow, I'm going to replant the cuttings across the left side of the tank and midground. I'm also ordering another Crypt Balansae to place in the back middle where there's open space.

As I've increased the iron the red plants: Nymphaea 'Zenkeri', Cryptocoryne wendtii 'Florida sunset' and have started to show color. 

I'm hoping to get the light balanced to a point where the rotala start getting more pink.


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## garloki72 (Oct 31, 2010)

Nice man! How are your apistos doing?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks! They are doing well - The Hongsloi are not as colorful as I have seen online - I may have 2 females. I will post pictures of the two for positive ID. If that's the case, I'll try to purchase a male.

I have a bunch of Christmas Moss that I trimmed and I need to figure out what to do with...


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

Sweet tank!


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## MyMonkey (Jul 17, 2007)

Love the looks of this tank. Nice work!


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

VERY BEAUTIFUL TANK!!!

SOOOO SORRY to hear about the loss of that BEAUTIFUL Koi Angel, as well as your problems with the shrimp! I too have ALWAYS had problems with shrimp in my 55g! ???? 

LOVE the Pencil Fish!!! I have 11 Golden Pencils, and will be adding them to my 55g soon! 

Is the Co2 atomizer you have inline still working well, and without Co2 bubbles all in the tank? Are there any problems with it you have found in the long run? 

Keep up the GREAT WORK, AWESOME JOB on the Drift wood sculpting, and I am Subscribed 4sure!!!
Drew


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback! The CO2 atomizer is working well - It needs a cleaning - GLA sells a product that you can dip it in for a few hours and it opens up the pores.

I am dropping the light from 33" from the substrate to about 24" from the substrate so I can nudge the hair grass into growth. It's a gradual process. I've upped the CO2 and now you can finally see the bubble mist - not a lot but a fine mist. I think a cleaning will reduce the size - I haven't cleaned the diffuser in 8 months.

I just ordered a male Hongsloi - I figured out that the two I have are females and they could use a male to keep them company (and color them up a bit). 

The Staurogyne repens has gone into overdrive - I've started to prune it weekly and replant the tips - the midground is going to be that for the most part. 

This is the tank with the light 28" from the substrate.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

lookin good


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Updates 

Well, the Serpea tetra are gone - their introduction caused an ich outbreak - None of them showed any symptoms. Luckily, I caught it in the very beginning and wiped it out with Quick Cure. One more treatment and it will be a week of no symptoms.

Here are some pics:


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## mitchfish9 (Apr 30, 2012)

I saw this tank a long time ago when I first joined this site. I have always really liked it!! Great job!!!


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

mitchfish9 said:


> I saw this tank a long time ago when I first joined this site. I have always really liked it!! Great job!!!


Thanks!

Just a little update:

The Coral red pencil males are coloring up and sparring. Here's a *clip*  

I started to dose EI and the plants are pearling for the first time since I set up the tank but only on trace day for some reason.


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## Rbp917 (Dec 9, 2012)

If you are still interested in discus you may want to check out discus Hans in Baltimore and set up a visit.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Rbp917 said:


> If you are still interested in discus you may want to check out discus Hans in Baltimore and set up a visit.


Thanks, I would consider them but the plants in this tank may not survive the warmer water I've read they require.


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## Tomasz (Jan 23, 2013)

Hi sundragon,

I've been reading the majority of this. In your most recent photos I noticed you have what looks to be a fan/wave mover for water. It seems to do a gentle job, what kind/type?


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Tomasz said:


> Hi sundragon,
> 
> I've been reading the majority of this. In your most recent photos I noticed you have what looks to be a fan/wave mover for water. It seems to do a gentle job, what kind/type?


It's just a power head (hydor nano) to help with flow and CO2 distribution. It's at the back of the tank opposite the filter intake driving water towards it. I was told a circular churning of the water is good. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## BoxxerBoyDrew (Oct 16, 2005)

Tank is still looking GREAT!!!

The Pencil Fish are still my Faves! Glad to hear about the diffuser still going good! I am really thinking of going that route! About how long are the CO2 tanks lasting? Just wondering because my Son has a few of them from his Paint ball days, and I hate to see them just lying there when I could be using them!!!  

Anyway keep up the GREAT WORK! 
Drew


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Decisions, decisions...

I wanted Discus a while back - Not sure I want test my plants ability to deal with the warmer water (aside from finding homes for the other fish that can't tolerate the warmer temps)

Help me choose one of the below:

10 Neon Rainbow fish?
15 more cardinals? (I may do this anyway)
6 Peacock Gudgeons? (Just saw these for the first time and wow)
4 more cherry barbs?

*Edit: *currently the tank's residents include 4 cherry barbs, small school of Pencilfish, small school of cardinals, 2 cory sterbai, 3 otos, 3 apistogramma, and a partridge in a pair tree... */Edit*

Any other recommendations? I love schooling fish but I think something personality would be nice.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

BoxxerBoyDrew said:


> Tank is still looking GREAT!!!
> 
> The Pencil Fish are still my Faves! Glad to hear about the diffuser still going good! I am really thinking of going that route! About how long are the CO2 tanks lasting? Just wondering because my Son has a few of them from his Paint ball days, and I hate to see them just lying there when I could be using them!!!
> 
> ...


Thanks  I just switched to EI and I need to post pics (borrowing my friend's Canon camera because my phone's camera doesn't cut it).

24oz (2lbs) tanks last about ~2 months, but with EI dosing I upped the CO2 from 3bps to 4bps so I'm going to say 1.5 months.


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## tomfromstlouis (Apr 2, 2012)

Your tank is looking really nice Sundragon. That tiger lotus looks terrific.

And so do the tiger barbs by the way. I have always liked them but since I keep angels it is not to be for me. I am curious why your list for more fish does not include increasing that school.

As for the discus idea, I would have to vote no for this tank. It would completely upset everything that is working just right here; keep the idea for a larger tank. It IS a good idea, just not for this tank.

Keep the pictures coming!


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

tomfromstlouis said:


> Your tank is looking really nice Sundragon. That tiger lotus looks terrific.
> 
> Keep the pictures coming!


My Apistogramma Hongsloi II had babies! I'm now scrambling to figure out what to feed the little guys.

Thanks! The tiger barbs are gone, I replaced them with cherry barbs - a lot less agressive. 

I'm gonna post a video of the babies and momma, she's done a costume change - looks totally different from the other female.


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

Here's a *video of momma* keeping a watchful eye, and a pic of dad helping her out...


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

REEEEBOOOOT:

Got sidetracked by projects and other obligations. My tank looked horrible so I trimmed it down. The Staurogyne repens carpet had died out so I bought a bunch and restarted it. 
I lost all but two Emperor Tetra to carpet surfing. I also lost a few Cherry Barbs, and a few cardinals. Today, I went and purchased 15 Cardinals, 10 Emperors, 2 Otos, and a few Apisto agassizi Fire Red! looking forward to how this grows out. 
I am looking to give away some of the Tiger Nymphaea as they are over running the tank.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

lovely tank! I am curious did any of the hongsloi fry survive?

lets see some pix of the new apistogrammas


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## sundragon (Jan 10, 2011)

andrewss said:


> lovely tank! I am curious did any of the hongsloi fry survive?
> 
> lets see some pix of the new apistogrammas


Thanks! I just got them today and they are hiding, I'll post a few soon. 
Unfortunately, the hongsloi died. I am tempted to get another pair as our LFS has a bunch.


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## andrewss (Oct 17, 2012)

Ah yeah  

Well that is cool, post some updates when you are able to get some pictures of them


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