# red crystal in pH 7.5



## Matteo_Italy (Aug 11, 2006)

hi, i have one question fot you...Here i italy many breeders breed red crystal and other shrimps in tap water with success (in example pH 7.5 GH 8 KH 8)....
Well, in many sites it's written that crystal want lower values of pH...

So, why here the crystals reproduce a lot in this kind of tap water?Do you have a positive experience on breeding at pH 7.5 like in example the same water of cherries?
I dont want a reply such as "most of sites the optimal pH is 6.5-7 bla bla bla"...I wont a real experience of that.., not a "dogma"

Can you help me???
bye


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## TAF CAF (Jan 12, 2006)

So far my cherries have breed in 6.8 and in 7.8 but I have not had any of my new 4 crystals berry up in the 7.8 water... however, I am thinking I may have all 4 females, so the PH may not be the problem.

I know this isn't the clarification you were wanting, but if in fact I do have a male and female, I would think the PH is the issue.


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## milalic (Aug 25, 2005)

They will breed in ph 7.5. The highest I have breed them is 7.6.
It is not recommended as most of these shrimp come from acicid water and exhibit their best coloration in that environment.

-Pedro


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## Matteo_Italy (Aug 11, 2006)

hi and thank you...can you give me a validated study who says that?
My italian friend, who is one of most expert of shrimp here in italy, says that isn't true at 100% that rcs have to live at low values of pH...
tanks))


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## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

Crystal Red Shrimp do not HAVE to live in a lower pH but it is proven to be better for them. I have Crystal Reds in a 7.5 pH tank, mixed with my cherry red shrimp, and they do breed, but it is much slower than the ones that I have in a tank that has a lower pH.

I know you dont want to hear what the optimal conditions are, but they are optimal for a reason.

Basically the answer you are looking for is will the breed at a pH of 7.5? Well, in a perfect world the answer is Yes. But, there are far more factors than just pH. 

Crystal Red Shrimp are very sensitive to Nitrate/Nitrite/Amonnia and the higher the pH the more toxic the nitrogen cycle products are. The lower the oxygen saturation is, the more toxic they are as well, so lower temps are a big deal as well. They are also soft water shrimp!

Simple answer, If you keep your water in perfect shape and at the right temperature, your shrimp will breed. The survival rate of the young will be lower in the high pH and the colors will not be as vibrant.


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## Matteo_Italy (Aug 11, 2006)

right explanation))
thank you!


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## rain- (Mar 29, 2004)

I can't say that I would be an expert and I don't have any studies to show you, but I have kept Crystal Red shrimp and selectively bred them from low grade ones to higher grade ones with success. And I suppose you could say that I am one of the shrimp geeks in Finland.

I am getting 30-50 eggs per female in my tanks with pH 6,5-7, I got way less eggs per female and less frequently when I kept some of the lower grade ones with my apple snails in pH 7.5-8. The amount of surviving babies was also lower in the high pH tank. In 6,5-7 pH tanks the shrimp just reproduce faster and better. 

I'm sure you can keep Crystal Reds in high pH tanks too, but it would be interesting if your shrimp expert friend would lower the pH to 6,5 and see what happens.

And btw, our tap water is close to 8, but since the KH is low, it drops to around 7 in the tank and even further down if there's tannins and CO2 in the water. So, what's the tank water pH of the shrimp tanks in Italy? Even with KH 8, the pH should drop a bit after it has stayed in the tank for a while.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2005)

I am by far not an expert in breeding CRS, but I've been succuessfully breeding CRS under 7.4 - 7.8 pH without any problem. You may experience difficulties with the imported CRS. But I am under the opinion that your F1 will adapt to the new pH and will have no problem reproducing as if they are in lower pH.
So there isn't a right or wrong to the pH scale. It's where did you get them from that matters ...


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## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

I disagree with Zebra here. It really doesnt matter where you got them from, pH will allways affect the shirmp. I am at about F10 or so, and the higher pH still slows breeding and growth.


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## dhavoc (May 4, 2006)

yep, the lower the ph the better, kept a tank of them at 7.0-7.5 and no breeding, but once i added co2 and got the ph to 6.2-6.5, they got frisky i guess, and shrimplets everywhere. all my CRS are from people breeding them in the USA, so F+++ or more at least.


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## Zebrapl3co (Mar 29, 2005)

Dwarfpufferfish said:


> I disagree with Zebra here. It really doesnt matter where you got them from, pH will allways affect the shirmp. I am at about F10 or so, and the higher pH still slows breeding and growth.


Can I ask when you say slow breeding and growth. How is that compare to?
Have you observe how long did it take for your CRS to hatch from egg to hatchling? 20 days? 30 days or 40 days?


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## Dwarfpufferfish (May 29, 2004)

I have a decent size hatchery and I have tanks set up with different parameters. The tanks that are in the 7.5 pH range the crystal reds in those tanks have far few babies, the babies grow slower, they have a higher mortality rate, and the adults breed less often. 

As far as how long they take to hatch, that is based more on water temperature. The warmer the water the faster they hatch. But again, temperature is much like pH in this issue. The lower the better! I keep my CRS tanks between 71-74.

Now I have not done a scientific study on this, but what I have noticed is constant. My CRS in my lower pH tanks tend to breed again within a week of hatching its previous berry. In the higher pH tanks, it could be 2 weeks to a few months.

Just my 2 cents


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