# Sump or Canister Filter



## jellopuddinpop (Dec 12, 2016)

I was facing the same dilemma as you are, and chose a slightly different route. I have an FX6 for all my filtration, and a separate loop for my CO2 reactor and my inline heater. This keeps everything out of the tank while still using a canister filter. Check out my journal here for photos and the general plan.


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## astex (Aug 13, 2009)

I have a 180g low-tech planted and LOVE my sump. Make sure to give yourself enough headroom in the stand to get items in an out of the sump, be careful planning the plumbing lines, and the rest is gravy. Did a bean animal setup on the drains and with a DC return pump, it is dead silent. I sit 5' away in the living room and only hear it if I have the stand doors open, or if the water level in the sump is too low. 

I did one divider (made section for heaters/return pump), no bubble traps etc....and used poret foam as a divider between sections, as well as media itself. I now hate maintaining the canisters on the 40g tanks after dealing with the sump. Figuring out the setup takes a bit of thought (I overplan everything anyway), but I wouldn't go back now. 

I had my tank built with an external coast to coast overflow, but as long as you can get your new one drilled and/or avoid the "reef ready" setups, you should be able to use whatever drain setup you want.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Since you do seem to be somewhat leaning toward a canister and seem to feel more confident with them, what about adapting some of each, sump and can? 
With a can, you do get things in the tank but that can also be said of the sump as it does take inlet drain, etc. But those are often concealed behind a shield of some sort. I don't feel a can takes much more actual space for the equipment in the tank but it does show more if we don't work to avoid it. 
I find I can combine the input from the can with the heater, probe from the PH monitor, probe from the temperature controller all behind one cover in one corner and the outtake to the can in another corner. I do black paint on the back glass and if the cover is also black it is very difficult to spot it while keeping the equipment hidden completely. 
When in doubt, I often go for the simple solution rather than venture into unknown territory. One point that does make this work better so that I don't have to get to anything like the heater, is that I use a heater that has the controls outside the tank rather than on the heater top. But then I feel that has some major advantages on other points so that would be the style I used on all tanks.


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## aja31 (May 25, 2013)

Once you have a sump properly set up it should be fairly hard to make it flood. In a well constructed sump the only way to have a flood is if you only have a single overflow and it gets clogged. You can also design a sump that is impossible to flood. 

There are only two ways your sump can flood. Either it takes in more water then it can hold or it pumps out more water then the main tank can hold. The latter can be solved by making the return chamber only hold enough water that even if it pumps dry your tank doesn't flood. The former can be accomplished by keeping the returns above the water line and only filling the system to a point where after fully draining and having the return pump off the sump is filled but not overflowing. 

If you do those things then you physically can't get a flood.


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## osmosis (Apr 19, 2017)

I have run both canisters and sumps at this point. One sump with a wet dry trickle filter and one with my reef tank that had a protein skimmer and live rock. I had bean animal overflows on the reef tank. I am personally convinced that the canister filters are quieter than even a properly working overflow, but both were quieter than the fans on my lights. The trickle filter was easily heard 20 ft away. You really dont need to worry about flooding if you carefully layout the sump or use a professional sump as aja31 explained. You can put a lot of the equipment inline with canister filters or a separate pump line. I love the even water level in the tank when using a sump. I think the water oxygenation with the sump, particularly with the wet/dry was superior. I love the space in my stand with my new canister setup. Basically it is a bunch of tradeoffs with no wrong answer.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

What Osmosis say is what I see also. I just kind of lean toward the canisters as I feel there are lots of design things already worked out and that leaves me to worry other points. Then I also like to take my maintenance beatings in smaller doses! Sumps are great for running a long time but when they do need a knockdown/cleanout done, it is a real grimy, slimy job. 
When I look at what it takes to mod a normal tank for sump use or mod a tank to hide the heater, etc. with a shield to cover the stuff, I go simple.


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## Bobbybills (Nov 30, 2015)

I had a canister on a 90 and changed to a sump because I got tired of changing filter media in the canister. A drilled tank will allow an overflow box in the main tank and maintenance now takes 30 seconds. Put the DC pump on "feed", feed fish, rotate sponge in overflow boxes. Also have pond filter pads cut to fit in the sump, change them every so often but lately more so than often. But even those take less than a minute of time without having to carry the canister over to the sink. And if you do go with a canister, make sure the spouse does not see you pour the brown liquid in the kitchen sink.

CO2 is affected but after changing to CO2 resistant tubing, 10G canister lasts twice as long than before using the canister and regular tubing.


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

I always see the concern of flooding a sump, but the only flood that I have ever had was with a leaking canister.

I am a really big fan of having a large sump and treating it as a second tank or pond that you don't see. I like being able to do water changes from the sump without having to turn off the return pump too. While Wet-dry filters are likely a little noisy (ie trickle), there is really no reason why you need one, especially with a planted tank. I like HMFs, but don't want one in my tank, so I have used the same approach in my sump, using poret foam as a tank divider. 

A question for you is will you be injecting CO2. If you go with a sump, using CO2 will alter your design some.


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

I went with a baffle-less 55-gallon (48" x 14=5.5" x 17.5") sump on my 135 using a CPR102 overflow box. It's quieter than the sunsun canister filters on the other tanks that are in the house.



from right to left:

200 micron 7" felt filter sock for mechanical filtration. wash it every week / rotate in a clean one.

30 ppi blue foam, 45 ppi black foam, 15 lbs of pumice (rolled up burrito/sushi style to try to get as much water to flow into it) , 45 ppi black foam again.

4.5" x 20" cerges reactor is on a separate loop, powered by a jecod dct 6000.

main pump is a jecod dcp 8000. the DCP series is a hell lot quieter than the DCT series.

it's pretty hard to flood a sump lol. as long as you leave enough of your sump tank empty you wouldn't have to worry about the sump flooding.

here's another idea for a baffless sump: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...e-community-build-thread.423425/#post-5207432
attaching a tetra pond box or something similar to your pump and setting the bio-media on top will ensure that almost no water bypasses your bio-media


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> here's another idea for a baffless sump: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/...e-community-build-thread.423425/#post-5207432
> attaching a tetra pond box or something similar to your pump and setting the bio-media on top will ensure that almost no water bypasses your bio-media


That is the post that I read that caused me to refer to my setup as a pond. I also have a smaller pond filter box on my return.


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## Magem (May 11, 2017)

I was also in the same boat in 2010, when I decided to jump from fresh water to saltwater and I had doubts about a Sump or not because the same concern: risk of a flood...
In 7 years I have not have any problem. The only think you have to do is to plan your setup in order to avoid any possibility of flood. This is possible and you will sleep [emoji42] well. 


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

astex said:


> I have a 180g low-tech planted and LOVE my sump. Make sure to give yourself enough headroom in the stand to get items in an out of the sump, be careful planning the plumbing lines, and the rest is gravy. Did a bean animal setup on the drains and with a DC return pump, it is dead silent. I sit 5' away in the living room and only hear it if I have the stand doors open, or if the water level in the sump is too low.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you astex,
Interesting that a surprising number of people don't provide the self with enough room to get their elbows into their sumps and that must be "extremely" frustrating". I've got a few months to get this done before my fish are too big for their current tank. 

Another key realization that I was discussing with a LFS owner was the height of my stand. He was saying how he loves a higher stand that's between 3 - 31/2' high, and how much better it looks, not to mention all the room it allows for one to get pull up their sleeves and get their hands into the sump if need be up to your elbows without too much trouble. I'm definitely a firm believer in making my life easier. So much to learn and so much fun. 

Thank you for sharing and taking the time to comment, I appreciate it.

DD


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DigityDog70 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking at two different sized tanks as my severums will soon outgrow their current tank..That said, I'm going back and for between a sump and a canister. This will be a planted tank!
> 
> ...




Thank you all for the most helpful responses, I am very appreciative, and I will be sure to journal my process and am taking a little from everyone responses. 


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

astex said:


> I have a 180g low-tech planted and LOVE my sump. Make sure to give yourself enough headroom in the stand to get items in an out of the sump, be careful planning the plumbing lines, and the rest is gravy. Did a bean animal setup on the drains and with a DC return pump, it is dead silent. I sit 5' away in the living room and only hear it if I have the stand doors open, or if the water level in the sump is too low.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks Astex. You have make some good points. Do you happen to have any pics, That you wouldn't mind sharing? I'm really into setting up the sump, but since I haven't built my own yet, and I know I will make mistakes if I don't plan plan plan, I'd love to check out your setup. This preliminary setup part is one of my favorite parts about the hobby admittedly. Research, plan and execute. That's a pretty solid statement, about having to now maintain your canisters now that you have your sump. A sump just keeps coming back as the most sensible solution for me. I have a really am determined to plan this out thoroughly and invest my time wisely. 

Cheers and thanks again!
DD


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

SingAlongWithTsing said:


> I went with a baffle-less 55-gallon (48" x 14=5.5" x 17.5") sump on my 135 using a CPR102 overflow box. It's quieter than the sunsun canister filters on the other tanks that are in the house.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Very nice and thanks again for sharing, much appreciated. That just looks sweet. Appears that you also gave yourself the much needed spaced required to get your arms into the baffle to work. This is what I need to do. How tall is your stand. I'm really starting to like at least 36" high and maybe even 42" tall. This way you have more room to work in the sump and your tank sits up higher, which I can't I appreciate enough. In my opinion, for aesthetics, many tanks simply sit too low. 


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## DigityDog70 (Jan 20, 2017)

I found this video and was wondering what the consensus is? He's saying, wet dry filters deplete co2, "too fast" and create way too much oxygen for a planted aquarium? I am doing preliminary research, so I don't know. https://youtu.be/3SgYWfeHzps


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## SingAlongWithTsing (Jun 11, 2015)

DigityDog70 said:


> Very nice and thanks again for sharing, much appreciated. That just looks sweet. Appears that you also gave yourself the much needed spaced required to get your arms into the baffle to work. This is what I need to do. How tall is your stand. I'm really starting to like at least 36" high and maybe even 42" tall. This way you have more room to work in the sump and your tank sits up higher, which I can't I appreciate enough. In my opinion, for aesthetics, many tanks simply sit too low.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


my stand is 32.75" tall. frame being 32" and ply wood top being about 0.75"

my only regret from making this stand was not using 2x6's for the top part of the frame. if i would of use 2x6's i could omit that center leg blocking the sump lol. 



DigityDog70 said:


> I found this video and was wondering what the consensus is? He's saying, wet dry filters deplete co2, "too fast" and create way too much oxygen for a planted aquarium? I am doing preliminary research, so I don't know. https://youtu.be/3SgYWfeHzps
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


i had a wet dry for awhile, and yeah it did deplete co2 a bit faster, but i also had a mezzei venturi at the end of my return for my oxygen and surface agitation at the time too. i wouldnt worry about having too much oxygen. 

the main problem with my wet dry at the time was that it wasnt totally sealed, im pretty sure i missed some parts while duct taping.

what ever type of sump you go with just make sure that at least the side where water coming down from your overflow is sealed with a lid


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

If it fits the rest of the plan or makes it easier, the tall stand is something that I do really like. On my larger tank, I knew I would want it taller but simply due to the location. It is in a rarely used dining room next to the table. That left me certain that I wanted to see most of the tank when setting nearby but looking over the table! I built it extra tall and find that I like walking up to look at things more at eye level rather than bending over. I often have a bit of coffee just standing there watching the fish wake up as the lights come on in phases. They look pretty much like I feel? 

Very little extra wood involved if building one from scratch. 

If doing a full custom build from scratch, there is another item I might throw in for your thinking. I wanted to use a tank that was less than perfect but I also wanted it to look as near built into the wall as possible without actually cutting studs, etc. to do it. So I went with wrapping the tank to give it a different feel while using matching trim to give it the builtin look. 









I feel it was worth the effort to wrap the corners and trim with a simple false "frame" to give it a more "windowbox" look. I wanted it to be in pieces so that I can take it off the stand to move, so I built the stand, the frame around the tank and the canopy as three separate sections which just set in place on top of each other. 










It takes a bit of extra cutting and fitting but then I only have to do it once, if I move and take the tank along! Stand first, tanks et on , front frame, and then the canopy, so that each item is practical for moves.


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## Bunsen Honeydew (Feb 21, 2017)

DigityDog70 said:


> I found this video and was wondering what the consensus is? He's saying, wet dry filters deplete co2, "too fast" and create way too much oxygen for a planted aquarium? I am doing preliminary research, so I don't know. https://youtu.be/3SgYWfeHzps
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Do you plan on injecting CO2? In a low tech (non-injected setup), the gas exchange will replenish CO2. In an injected system, there are things that can be done to minimize CO2 loss. I believe that Tom Barr is an advocate of using Wet-Dry filters on his high tech planted tanks, but he basically tapes them up to allow little gas exchange.

Bump:


PlantedRich said:


> If it fits the rest of the plan or makes it easier, the tall stand is something that I do really like. On my larger tank, I knew I would want it taller but simply due to the location. It is in a rarely used dining room next to the table. That left me certain that I wanted to see most of the tank when setting nearby but looking over the table! I built it extra tall and find that I like walking up to look at things more at eye level rather than bending over. I often have a bit of coffee just standing there watching the fish wake up as the lights come on in phases. They look pretty much like I feel?
> 
> Very little extra wood involved if building one from scratch.
> 
> ...


That looks great Rich.

When building stands for a tank with a sump, I like to make a front panel that is completely removable to ensure complete access. On a stand for a 110XH that I had many moons ago, I built the front panel (trimmed beadboard) to sit on the floor, and used cupboard catches to hold it on the stand. Made maintenance super easy.


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