# Is this amano pregnant?



## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I think so. The babies won't survive in freshwater though. You'd have to introduce them in brackish/sea water with lots of plankton for food.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

So, amanos aren't wild bred correct? They're wild caught?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

yes, it's cheaper to catch them wild.


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## valthegreat (Jun 14, 2016)

Looks preggers to me!


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## JuanSan (May 20, 2014)

Yes it does look preggers! Like other users have mentioned, it is highly unlikely that you will get babies as they need to have a brackish/saltwater stage for larval development and then a transition into freshwater once they are baby shrimp!


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## Doppelgaenger (Jul 20, 2015)

If you want a challenge, amanos have been bred in captivity. You're going to need a really fine mesh filter cover!


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## FreshwaterAdvice (Jun 15, 2016)

You'll need an extremely fine mesh filter cover along with a cover on that power head. I recommend buying some filter mesh on Amazon, especially the ones that are bags with drawstring. You can put those around the filter intake and the power head. 

As stated, Amano shrimp need to have brackish / saltwater as babies and then transfer to freshwater when they grow up. This is a difficult task as it involves capturing the baby shrimp which are extremely difficult to see and then transferring them to another aquarium you have setup. The only good way to do this is by using a breeding net that is fine enough to hold the baby shrimp. You can then capture the baby amanos and transfer them to a new aquarium. However, you will need a new aquarium setup. I don't know the parameters off the top of my head.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

FreshwaterAdvice said:


> You'll need an extremely fine mesh filter cover along with a cover on that power head. I recommend buying some filter mesh on Amazon, especially the ones that are bags with drawstring. You can put those around the filter intake and the power head.


sponge filter with air hose should keep everybody safe.

Bump:


FreshwaterAdvice said:


> As stated, Amano shrimp need to have brackish / saltwater as babies and then transfer to freshwater when they grow up. This is a difficult task as it involves capturing the baby shrimp which are extremely difficult to see and then transferring them to another aquarium you have setup. The only good way to do this is by using a breeding net that is fine enough to hold the baby shrimp. You can then capture the baby amanos and transfer them to a new aquarium. However, you will need a new aquarium setup. I don't know the parameters off the top of my head.


You can separate the momma, wait will she release the babies, remove the momma and gradually increase the salinity.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

That's very interesting. If I had more time on my hands, I'd definitely give it a go. I've never had an excuse to fool around with salt water. Anyone interested in trading for the little fella?


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

Great news everyone! Instead of getting started on a final project due in two weeks, I borrowed a friends Q tank and isoloated the pregnant shrimp! Huzzah! Screw school!

Anyway, my setup is very bare bones. No substrate yet or a light. I'll probably pick up some play sand and clamp light today. I know I have some spare CFLs somewhere.

I've read the fry need diatoms so I need to figure out how to get those growing.

Could anyone recommend some reading?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I'd leave the lights on 24/7. You can buy green water and plankton http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/...cfm?c=3468+2190&cmpid=IB-_-HP-_-062416-_-FTR1

The lights should keep the green water alive.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

Going to get some green water from a local reef store and get see if I can get it to stay alive in a gallon bowl.

Question about the light being on 24/7. I've read that before, this means to leave the lights on 24/7 after the fry hatch in the freshwater tank? The fry haven't actually hatched yet.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

yes, the 24/7 light is for the green water. This is how some people raise daphnia.
You might want to get a cheap TDS meter or a cheap hydrometer to keep track of how much sea salt to add. Reef keepers use a refactor to check salinity but they're expensive.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

So, just to be clear, the fry in the freshwater don't need 24/7 light when they hatch but they must be moved to the salt water within a few days. Think I read in at most 8 days but I'll probably do 4. Once in the salt/green water, they'll need light 24/7. How long must the 24/7 light continue? And I'm assuming the light must be a high K bulb suitable for growing plants?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Any light bulb is fine. Regular spiral compact bulb should work too.
Why not just add salt to the tank? No need to catch and move the fry. Add the salt gradually over days.

You know you're successful when the larvae looks like mini shrimps. The larvae should look something like brine shrimp larvae.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

My initial idea was to hatch in the spare 10 gal then add salt directly but the more I read, the more it sounded like transferring after hatching to a breeder tank would be easier. Biggest problem I foresaw was what to do after they've become shrimp? My other fish would feast on them in the main tank. This approach also has the advantage of me setting up another tank after I promised myself not to do so.

For the shrimp tank itself, I'm thinking of going filter-less initially but am still worried about water flow. I have a spare elite mini and plan to stuff it full of a fine filter pad. Would this be sufficient to keep the fry out of the filter? Or is a sponge filter really the only way to go?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I dont know said:


> My initial idea was to hatch in the spare 10 gal then add salt directly but the more I read, the more it sounded like transferring after hatching to a breeder tank would be easier. Biggest problem I foresaw was what to do after they've become shrimp? My other fish would feast on them in the main tank. This approach also has the advantage of me setting up another tank after I promised myself not to do so.
> 
> For the shrimp tank itself, I'm thinking of going filter-less initially but am still worried about water flow. I have a spare elite mini and plan to stuff it full of a fine filter pad. Would this be sufficient to keep the fry out of the filter? Or is a sponge filter really the only way to go?


Any shrimp larvae yet?


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

Easiest is to let the larvae hatch in fresh water but only fill the tank 1/2 way. Remove the mother and then add double strength saltwater. Problem is with feeding. I have tried 3 times and only had 2 shrimplets ever survive and morph into shrimp but they did not grow up and I never saw them again once I added them to a fresh water tank. Getting them used to fresh water has to be done very slowly over several days by removing a little bit of water and replacing it with fresh water. Very time consuming.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

Yes actually! I saw the first fry on the night of June 28th. Left them in the freshwater tank till July 3rd so 5 days in freshwater. 

The night of July 3rd I moved them to a saltwater and plankton bowl I set up. Salinity was around 33/34 ppm. The mix was double salinity salt water from a local reef store mixed in with green water from the same store.

I've had a light on the green water since but I believe the original plankton died. Instead of green water, there is just brown dust on the bottom of the bowl. Perhaps due to lack of water movement? I only had a weak airstone in the bowl and definitely forgot to stir the water around. I've never dealt with alive green water before. I've since supplemented the water with half cap-fulls of seachum phytoplankton. 

I can't say that all the fry have survived in the bowl but a good number have so far. Plan is to wait for them to morph and slowly bring to freshwater. I've read about a system using mason jars and adding 50% more freshwater every day but I'm not set on a method yet.

Any suggestions going forward? Should I add another food source or clean out the brown dead plankton at the bottom? Should the light remain on 24/7?


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I'd leave the lights on 24/7.

Whatever you're doing, it's keeping the larvae alive. The dead planktons might provide food or nutrients to the surviving algae. Just check for ammonia. If that's an issue, then clean up the dead plankton.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

One person allows the larvae to hatch in brackish water, and once they hatch, they move the mother back to freshwater. 



I have amanos, but no experience with raising and breeding them.


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## 691175002 (Apr 28, 2009)

I recall reading a story of someone accidentally raising Amano shrimp while treating their tank with aquarium salt.


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## garfieldnfish (Sep 25, 2010)

I would not buy that story. They were likely not Amano shrimp. Aquarium salt is not the same as sea salt and the salinity would ever get high enough.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

I'll keep an eye on the amonia. I lost a lot of hope when I realized the green water was dying. The Seachum plankton isn't alive so perhaps the fry are living off the dead plankton?

Think my two biggest concerns going forward are getting the fry to actually go through metamorphosis and the salinity of the water changing as I move fry out.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

I'm sure some microscopic buggers are living in there that the larvae are feeding on. You'd need a microscope to see what's swimming in there. I'm sure Seachem Plankton helps.


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## Doppelgaenger (Jul 20, 2015)

the algae doesn't have to be alive. it just has to be suspended in the water column.

I can't speak from experience with amanos because I've never kept them, but when my ghost shrimp bred the larvae were free floating and I spent a good time watching them.

They swim by fluttering their swimmerets which pushes water down past their mouth and claws, and they feed on whatever food is carried along in this water flow. So as long as you can keep the food in suspension, they'll be able to feed. The green water is probably dead because of the salt you added. If I were to try this out I'd probably try with 5-50 micron golden pearls.

You really need to keep an eye on water quality at this point or the ammonia will spike and they'll all die.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

Bad news guys, our grand experiment has ended in failure. In short, we were wrong to play god.

I'm not totally sure what happened but I'm thinking I may have been overzealous when I stirred the water the final time. There was a lot of sediment at the bottom of the bowl that I was trying to move around. I had checked the ammonia levels that morning and they seemed good, a 2 at highest on the API freshwater test kit.

I will most definitely try again and try to remember to update this thread.

Thanks for the help and encouragement everyone!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

That's too bad. You'll need a sponge filter for next time.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Sorry to hear that.



I'll be going through a similar experiment as one of two females has become berried. I suspect that I may have similar results as I've never ventured into the realm of salt water before and with the heat the way it's been, well I'm not counting on it being a success... but I can't not try!


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

I'm trying to do the same. I had two berried females. One hatched before I could separate her and the other was so stressed by quarantine she dropped all her eggs. This is the third clutch that has been missed. 

I set up a brackish water aquarium and it is just getting diatoms. I ordered plankton from Amazon. I thought it would be neat to grow a fused trunk mangrove bonsai, so I have this set in the brackish and another set in a freshwater quarantine tank. These are the instructions I'm following: https://gabhar.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/breeding-amano/

I have to say... just trying to get the larvae in the right place at the right time has been a HUGE PITA so far.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Boothie, here are a couple of other articles that may be worth reading. One mentions that the zoes should be in full marine water, not brackish.


https://gabhar.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/breeding-amano/


Where as the other mentions that different strains of amano can handle salinity differently.

Amano Shrimp | Care, Diet & Breeding - AquariumInfo.org


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

Hi Zoidburg The blog I followed listed 34ppm salt in the water. I assumed it is brackish - that is what my salinity is at; 1.02 or somewhere around there. Mike's Whatever blog - it seems to be successful. 

I'll review it again if I ever manage to get the zoe into a different tank. Haven't gotten there yet, but I did find out about some fine mesh nets used for rinsing out artemis so I'll try again next hatch without separating the females and stressing them out. Patience, eh?


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## sfshrimp (May 24, 2016)

*fun read*

This was a really cool thread, and fun read. Too bad it didn't work out - thanks for sharing this..


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

boothie said:


> Hi Zoidburg The blog I followed listed 34ppm salt in the water. I assumed it is brackish - that is what my salinity is at; 1.02 or somewhere around there. Mike's Whatever blog - it seems to be successful.
> 
> I'll review it again if I ever manage to get the zoe into a different tank. Haven't gotten there yet, but I did find out about some fine mesh nets used for rinsing out artemis so I'll try again next hatch without separating the females and stressing them out. Patience, eh?


One suggestion is to move the females to the hatching tank (half filled with water) as soon as you see eyes within the eggs. Try and get the water parameters near same as the tank they are coming out of. Once the babies hatch, remove the adults and add in double strength saltwater.


As per one article, anything between 32-35 ppt, or around 1.025 sg is full marine. Brackish water would be less than that.


I think I'll be trying to have the babies hatch within a critter keeper floating inside the aquarium. Once they hatch, remove the females from the critter keeper, then transfer the zoes into a saltwater tank. Have ~3 weeks left for the first zoes to hatch, and near 5 weeks for the rest. Will see if I can manage to get any to adult size.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

Yeah - maybe after hatching a few amanos I can get some sexy shrimp then. they are super cute. I tried moving one amano to a floating hatchery and she dropped all her eggs. I think it was too stressful for her to get netted out. I like the idea of these glass shrimp catchers. Maybe I can make one from some acrylic tubing here. Glass Shrimp Catcher - Medium - Garnelaxia


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

My SO wants me to use a critter keeper and just bait it, and have the shrimp go in there on her own.... only, we now have two berried females due about a week and a half apart! LOL


He's also interested in getting some corals and sexy shrimp for the saltwater tank.... which was originally meant to be temporary.... lol It's a 10 gallon tank with some play-sand, a few live rocks and a sponge filter. Nothing fancy at all... If we add corals or marine shrimp, then it's not a temp tank!


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

Discovered the berried shrimp this morning. This girl is on a schedule, I think. Pretty reliably berried May 27, July 8 and now August 7. Failed the first two times, but this time I'm just going to leave her in there and use lights to get the larvae in a place to scoop up the majority. She hides a lot when she's berried...


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Yes, I've noticed that a lot, too. Even the male tends to disappear. The hornwort forest certainly doesn't help! LOL


I've got diatoms growing in the saltwater tank right now. Read that they're important. Need to get phytoplankton this week, since the babies are now due within the next 2-4 weeks.


Best of luck this go around!


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

Thanks, Zoidburg! If you have a diary on it, I'd like to follow. Feel kind of bad for hijacking this post...


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Here's a couple additional links I have.... 

Breeding Amano / Yamato shrimp | UK Aquatic Plant Society
Diatoms for Amanos - Petshrimp.com Discussion Forum


I have some more research I want to do, as I'm looking to purchase live plankton this week, so hopefully it'll be ready by the time the shrimp are born.


And the tank is still cycling....


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

Hatching day! I was able to net these zoes and put them in the saltwater tank!


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Congrats!!!!


Seems my first attempt has been met with failure.... the first female amano was due in about 5 days, but it appears as if she has decided to drop her eggs.... don't know if it's because she might be first time mother? Or if something disturbed her enough to drop her eggs.... either way, there are no zoes and I can't even find a molt in case she molted them off.... the only thing swimming around in the water are baby cherries. Putting a light on the aquarium doesn't do a thing.


The next set are due around the end of the month or beginning of next month, which is a bit of a bummer, as the tank I set up for the zoes is finally done cycling... on the flip side, I guess I'll have more time to grow food for the zoes??? Once the algae arrives... to make green water.




--- errrr... I take that back! 

I have found a *few* zoes. Not many, at least, not as many as I'm seeing in your pictures. More like as many as I can count on one hand...

And still a bunch of cherries..... all attracted to the light.... I probably need a better light....


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

I checked the freshwater this morning and there are no signs of zoes. I just had extremely good luck with the timing, and caught the zoes while they were being flung out of the pleopods. The Amano had quite a few more, I'm sure but I got a majority of the release and enough to keep me content if I manage to transform 10 out of however many there are right now. 

This is the fourth clutch, so it's been a game of patience.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

hmm, A bunch of these zoae would make good fry food eh?


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## SwissCheeseHead (Dec 24, 2014)

Keep us updated! I have 3 females that are always berried. When the zoes drop, my rainbows go into a feeding frenzy. I'd like to move the females into a 5 gallon hatching tank the next time this happens. I like the idea of a critter keeper with the berried female inside when it gets close. The females would be easy to move around when that happens.

Also, would a cycled tank be necessary? I can't imagine that the bioload of these shrimp require biological filtration.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Checking again in the morning... no signs of any more so far. Guessing perhaps that maybe not many of the eggs were fertilized, since there weren't many offspring. Couldn't even tell if any eggs had eyes, as difficult as that is.

But come morning, she's berried again... lol Nice, dark colored eggs.

The issue could be perhaps because there aren't enough males??? And with only 3 amanos, two of which are female.... well... *shrugs*





mistergreen said:


> hmm, A bunch of these zoae would make good fry food eh?


They probably would!





SwissCheeseHead said:


> Keep us updated! I have 3 females that are always berried. When the zoes drop, my rainbows go into a feeding frenzy. I'd like to move the females into a 5 gallon hatching tank the next time this happens. I like the idea of a critter keeper with the berried female inside when it gets close. The females would be easy to move around when that happens.
> 
> Also, would a cycled tank be necessary? I can't imagine that the bioload of these shrimp require biological filtration.


I'm actually liking the idea of an extra setup for the berried female at this point... lol The only other tank I have available is a 2.5 gallon tank, but I worry that the water parameters wont remain stable enough, especially the temperature. Amanos can apparently handle quite cold temperatures, down in the 40° F range, but I don't know if the tank may get too warm.



I have moved the second (and larger) berried female to a smaller critter keeper, and with the tabs on top of it, I can make a nice, snug fit with it at the top of the acrylic aquarium. The larger critter keeper wont fit inside the aquarium, but it does fit enough that it can still rest inside the tank water, with the top above the top of the acrylic aquarium... so I'll probably change it out to that here shortly.



I did find a video that *mostly* goes over the process! And they make it out a *lot* simpler than other methods I've run across!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHDZyeVCm4c


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

They probably would make great food for fish. At ShrimpSpot someone told a story about their amanao flinging the babies off and the tropical fish going nuts over them. They were all over the place. The mystery snails became pretty active in the aquarium also. 

I don't have any fish... Just the snails and shrimp.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

So..... I've just had an interesting observation....


1.) Amano eggs can be hatched like brine shrimp eggs


2.) Even if your female drops her eggs approximately 2 (TWO!) weeks before she is due (take approximately 5 weeks to hatch, as per data), those eggs can *STILL* hatch in less than 12 hours. :icon_eek:


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

Wow that's awesome! You're able to salvage them then? Woohoo! Keep me posted! I was just reading last night about someone that did something like that. The eggs hatched over a period of time. I should have kept those dropped eggs last time.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I've hatched cherry shrimp in a home-made egg tumbler, and I actually do have a 'shrimp brooder', but it's far too small for so many eggs, and I don't even know if it's worth using it with amano eggs, since these eggs are so tiny and the babies, too. I haven't had an actual chance to use it since purchasing it, and seem to have misplaced it now, too.


My SO already had a brine shrimp hatchery back from when he had angelfish that were breeding, so I figured, why not give it a try? Only, I didn't expect for eggs to hatch less than 12 hours later.... in fact, it was probably about 6 hours from the time that I put the eggs into the hatchery to the point that I noticed babies had hatched.... so I don't even know *when* the first one hatched! And I checked the water, too, prior to dumping them into the hatchery.


I'm wondering if a flood, rains or other fast moving current event can cause the eggs to hatch early, thus ensuring their ability to make it to the ocean better?


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

I don't know about the currents. Maybe it's them being fanned around by the bubbling kind of like when the pleopods are fanned? Just a guess... 

I managed to fish out the zoes after cutting the net off a regular fishnet and replacing it with the foot of a nylon. Didn't have to be sewn on, it is snug enough to stay put. It worked really well... If you're looking for a moving zoe solution.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

A female fanning her eggs in still water isn't quite the same as a female fanning her eggs in a fast moving current... and I'm thinking a current or change or something may result in the eggs hatching sooner. I know temperature plays a roll... i.e. warmer water results in faster hatching rates and growth rates, colder water results in slower hatch rates. But, water itself must also play a roll, somehow.


I read how a couple people had females that were "past due", so they performed a water change. After the water change, the females released their eggs/zoes hatched. So there's gotta be something more to it.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

I think you know more about this part than I do. My single experience is my amanos became berried shortly after increasing the bubbling in the aquariums which created more movement. So, my guess is there is something to your theory.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

So, the amanos are three days old. They seem really active.
https://youtu.be/9ymY6IGQ0x4


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

Nice. Interesting to see all those came from one shrimp.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

I made sure the tank was cycled and was growing diatoms as well as have some red mangroves in there to suck up any amonia while the zoes are in the tank. We'll see if this plan bears out.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

There were bunches more, but this is what I was able to sieve out.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Welp... I "kind of" feel like we've been going about this all wrong. I contacted someone who put a lot of time and research into doing this very thing, and as per the information he was able to gather, amano shrimp zoes start hatching around 25 days (or 21 days - or in my case, 20 days), which a major hatch around 5 1/5 weeks, but some taking as long as nearly 7 weeks.

I can't help but think now of how many zoes that could have been missed because there is virtually no information out there on hatching... not unless you read the studies, which aren't necessarily easy to come across either, I would think.

I was sent a lot of information, so I've got a lot of reading to do!


One thing does confirm that diatoms are necessar... as are a couple of other things I'm not really familiar with....


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

I hope the zoes turn out well for you. Better some than none, I think!


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I think I have 30+ zoes who have survived thus far... about a week old


Both females are now berried. One week apart. I'd really love to have an amano only tank now! And to encourage the green algae that grows on glass!


I plan to start watching for zoes at 3 weeks in. Maybe see if I can keep them in fresh water a tad longer, too.


Slowly translating a Japanese document on the Ecology of Amano Shrimp. Well, already translated the entire thing, but it didn't translate as well as it could have... so going back and doing each section piece by piece. A rough translation using Google Translate. Not necessarily fun.... lol


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

Well, I tried to top off the water and managed to kill every zoe. Boo... Next time... Remember NO water changes for a while.


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

boothie said:


> Well, I tried to top off the water and managed to kill every zoe. Boo... Next time... Remember NO water changes for a while.


chlorinated?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Awe. 

I actually see a lot of talk about doing water changes every 3 or 4 days or once a week or something....


But I've also read that if you have green water, you don't *need* to do water changes because the algae keeps the water clean. I don't have green water yet... and I haven't even considered the idea of doing a water change. Just don't want to chance it.


I feel as if I probably have more copepods than zoes, though....


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

--- forgot to edit previous post



Just tested the water of the aquarium. Wanted to see how things are going.

pH seems to be around 8.4. Prior to adding zoes, the water was 8.2. Not sure if this is an issue or not.

Ammonia and Nitrites are testing 0. Nitrates at or very near to 0.

Salinity about 30 ppt or 1.022 SG. No water changes, no top offs. I would prefer higher salinity, but afraid to add anything at this point. The salinity was higher, prior to adding the zoes, but then I was using a turkey baster and probably added too much freshwater which lowered it, but still kept it close to or within range?


Sounds like if they make it past 12 days, they have the best chance of survival, but anything could go wrong between now and the time they are adults. Thankfully, have yet to experience shrimp not only out of the aquarium water, but also walking across the floor.


Really would love to have an amano only tank with the green algae growing on the glass. Seem to be an enjoyed food by them (as per other amano keepers), which would be great for young amanos.


Am kind of wondering if I should add a snail to the saltwater aquarium to keep down some algae growing in there. Not really interested in snails.... but.... I don't know.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

I thought about adding snails too, but the snails are really good at eating ALL the algae. Nothing left for the amanos.

Keep posting. One of the amanos is freshly berried again, so I'll be trying again...


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I thought about that, too, but there's green algae growing and seems to be out competing the diatoms. I don't have any plants or anything to compete with the green algae, and right now I don't feel like experimenting with less lighting to reduce the green algae growth.


Wild amano zoes may only get about 14 hours of daylight, so it's not like they need a ton of light, although if you're trying to grow green water, it's recommended to have the light on for at least 16 hours. The phytoplankton that I have culturing may not be ready for another 5 days or so.



My thought process - if I were to introduce a snail to eat the algae (if it would eat it... crabs may be a better option, but they would also eat shrimp), then maybe hopefully the introduction of phytoplankton and whatever else may be growing in the tank may be enough? I can't add any plants that would grow out of the tank due to the hood and the fact that it's on the shelf of a 15/20g stand, so there really isn't any room. Other "plants" that I could think of would make great hiding spots for growing shrimp, thus making it difficult to remove them from the tank when the time comes.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I'm about ready to scrap the tank.... counted 5 zoes past couple of days, now only counting a few.


Did add a snail. Supposed to be really good at eating algae. It prefers hanging on the sides of the tank, near the top. Has traveled further down the walls, but not quite as far as halfway down...


Have noticed other 'pest' creatures beyond just the copepods. Looks like I may have at least one amphipod. When I looked in the container the live rocks came out of, I couldn't find *anything* moving about. Tank has plenty of copepods though...


Keep having an issue with the airlines... Due to a lack of air pumps and not being able to currently get any more, I've had the air from one pump split up to 4 times. Did have a 4 way gang valve, but ended up returning it as it was unreliable. This resulted in a frankenstein 2 way gang valve. It's now down to 3. Had an air pump on another tank and had that split 2 ways. The split went to the brine shrimp hatchery, which doesn't appear as if there will ever be any more eggs, so that split went to the phytoplankton instead.

Not only that, but the sponge filter in the saltwater tank occasionally stops working...




So if I end up scrapping the tank, I'll try going bare bottom with just an air stone for the next batch... with a lot of the phytoplankton.



Been reading some older threads on other peoples attempts at raising amanos. One is actually an attempt at raising 4 different species. Started with one species, and eventually added in others. This person did manage to get 6+ amano zoes to morph state in 1.018 SG, but then lost all in the transition from salt to freshwater. From the sounds of it, the transition was far too slow. Also had zoes hatch out as early as 18 days after female was berried to up to or around 6 weeks. Really feel as if the females have some way of controlling when the babies hatch, but the longer the zoes remain in their eggs, the higher chance of more zoes hatching.


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/88-shrimp-other-invertebrates/151575-attempting-breed-amanos.html
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8...tes/116856-caridina-cf-propinqua-journal.html



In other news, I feel as if the second amano will hatch earlier than the first amano, and they're a week apart in being berried. Keep thinking that maybe I've got them mixed up, but it was the smaller female with lesser eggs that became berried first, then dropped the majority of her eggs(?) around 4 weeks, then the larger female the following day. Smaller female berried up asap, larger one took a week longer. However, the larger female has clearer eggs where-as the smaller female has darker eggs.

I'm guessing this may affect hatching dates. I may also try something a little different with the new zoes. Wont be fun, but interested in trying regardless. Maybe doing a slower transition to saltwater. We'll see.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

That's a bummer, Z. I was hoping you would blaze the trail. I really hate the freshwater amphipods. I tried to get rid of them, but they keep showing up. I think they came in with plants. 

I don't know about the egg development. Not related to temperature? Keep posting


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

boothie said:


> That's a bummer, Z. I was hoping you would blaze the trail. I really hate the freshwater amphipods. I tried to get rid of them, but they keep showing up. I think they came in with plants.
> 
> I don't know about the egg development. Not related to temperature? Keep posting


I do think egg development is probably related to temperature, but there's gotta be something more. I mean, if you can get hatched eggs between 18 days and 50 days, that's a huge gap! I feel that stress or a change in the water can encourage the eggs to hatch at different times.


I'm thinking that if a water change is done, the salt water needs to be aerated for at least 24 hours before doing the water change. This may help survivability.


I'm also wondering if Reef Crystals might be a better option than Instant Ocean? I'm not sure there... and I'm not sure I want to pay the difference in price... (at least not right now) but it might be something to look into, too? The reef crystals just have slightly higher values than Instant Ocean.


I still have to finish 're-translating' the Japanese article I have to see if I can get any more information out of it...


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

If you've ver raised daphnia, you never put in new water. You take mature water from an aquarium. I don't know what it is but prime and other dechlor might actually be bad for the little crustacean. They're really sensitive to chemicals.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

mistergreen said:


> If you've ver raised daphnia, you never put in new water. You take mature water from an aquarium. I don't know what it is but prime and other dechlor might actually be bad for the little crustacean. They're really sensitive to chemicals.


As per some of the guides, they recommend doing water changes - however, it doesn't say exactly how to do a water change. 

Here is one such guide... recommending to do water changes at day 15 and day 28. This one kind of says how to do it.

ShrimpNow !!! - Breeding Amano (Yamato) Shrimp


The issue is that there are a lot of people who may have freshwater tanks with amanos in them, but they do not have any saltwater aquariums, so they don't have any saltwater experience to draw from, let alone a mature tank. Raising amano zoes may be their first experience into a saltwater aquarium, in a manner of speaking... such as myself.

We're kind of going about this blindly because, as specific as the guides may be, they still lack a lot of information!


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## mistergreen (Dec 9, 2006)

You can use RO water, no need to age or use dechlor. That's what salt water people use.

You can buy a gallon of distilled water for $1 at the grocery store and mix in sea salt if you can't find RO water.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Last time I bought RO water, it was $3.33 for 10 gallons. Already ahead of you there!


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

mistergreen said:


> If you've ver raised daphnia, you never put in new water. You take mature water from an aquarium. I don't know what it is but prime and other dechlor might actually be bad for the little crustacean. They're really sensitive to chemicals.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Speaking of sensitive things... I used seachem prime and wiped out almost all of my mystery snails within two water changes. I reverted back to just aging the water.

Bump:


mistergreen said:


> If you've ver raised daphnia, you never put in new water. You take mature water from an aquarium. I don't know what it is but prime and other dechlor might actually be bad for the little crustacean. They're really sensitive to chemicals.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


That may be the way I go. So, I have a cylinder vase as an aquarium with a sponge filter in it. capacity is about 3 gallons. I have an acrylic top with an opening for magroves to fit through. The water evaporates, the salt increases and per other instructions, I added fresh water to the water line. Every zoe died. Very frustrating and now maybe I should start out with lower end salinity and fill in with lower end reserve with a gallon of RO or distilled water.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Seems all the zoes from the first batch are gone. I think it's been at least around 24 or so hours since I saw the last remaining one. The salinity was around 30 ppt (as per hydrometer), so I added more saltwater (not sure of salinity - mixed as per directions on box). Between evaporation and adding maybe 1/2 gallon of saltwater (over *several* hours), the salinity did go up to 32 ppt, which shouldn't be an issue. In fact, the last remaining zoe was still alive 2 days after adding more saltwater.

And now the tank also has tiny jellyfish in it, too...




Round 2 - eggs hatched around 15-16 days after being fertilized *OR* 8-9 days afterwards. Not sure which, since I'm not sure which female the zoes came from. Either way, that's even earlier than what I've read elsewhere. Only got around 4-5 zoes, I think... 3 of which I have now acclimated to fresh saltwater.

Both females still carrying the majority of their eggs, too. I think I got the few zoes from doing a water top off on the tank.

This time around, I used a large(?) critter keeper with water from the tank and added zoes into that. First one was left in it overnight before I added more zoes the next night. Day after, I made up a new batch of saltwater, at, hopefully, double strength and heavily aerated it for a few hours. I then took a smaller critter keeper and added 1 cup of tank water (from large critter keeper), then siphoned out the zoes using an eye-dropper and added them to the smaller CK. I then dripped in 1 cup of the new SW, and after that was finished, added at least 6 or so ml's of phytoplankton.


Since these zoes hatched as early as they did, I'm not sure if they'll have a good chance of survival.



I did come across some information though that stated that best chance of survival was at 25 ppt, although most people seem to have best success at 35 ppt.... so I'm wondering if maybe I should try experimenting with salinity... but I need more equipment for that... which I can't currently get.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

Hi Z - Wow, jelly fish too? wow, that rock sure was live  My lava rock is just plain old lava rock. So, does more equipment mean you're thinking of having two tanks? Could be worthwhile as an experiment.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

Wow! Much props to boothie and Zoidberg for fighting the good fight.

I'm gearing up for my next attempt. Came here specifically ask if I should get a sponge filter for the salt water portion or roll with the air stone again?

I currently have a thriving sponge filtered crypt tank populated by cories and amanos. The tank is barely touched except to top off with water. I first noticed one of the amanos with eggs 4 weeks ago and another a couple weeks after. I expect this amano to hatch within two weeks.

The next step in my plan is to get saltwater and try to grow some algae. Ya'll are saying Diatoms are necessary, correct? Any tips on growing?

Besides Diatoms, I have golden pearls en route which would take care of how I killed all the fry first go round and Seachum PhytoPlankton.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

I think Z got further than I did so far. My one amano dropped her eggs again. So, waiting on the other who is a solid clutch performer...

My tank got diatoms just from sitting out for a while. I still do not have algae (that I can see). I had some golden pearls, not sure if the zoes went after it or not.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

What size golden pearls? I think I picked up 50 - 100mm but there is a smaller size.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

It was 100-200 microns, I think. [Ebay Link Removed] Pearls 100 200mm Fish Food for Guppies Swortailes Betta Cichlid Fry | eBay[/url]


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

boothie said:


> Hi Z - Wow, jelly fish too? wow, that rock sure was live  My lava rock is just plain old lava rock. So, does more equipment mean you're thinking of having two tanks? Could be worthwhile as an experiment.


Oddly, I think the jellyfish showed up after adding the snail and adding more saltwater to the tank...

Have two different sized critter keepers, the 10 gallon tank and a 2.5 gallon tank, so technically, I don't need to get more equipment, but it would seriously help! Especially having a refractometer...

Had 3 air pumps, but one I'm now skeptical of using, since it got flushed with water... and there was a valve on the airline to prevent that....

So of the 2 remaining pumps, I've got one split 2 ways (tank & phytoplankton) and the other split 3 ways (tank, zoes, new saltwater).

I would like to try 25 ppt vs 35 ppt, but I don't feel like getting into that without a refractometer available. In theory, I could do it, though... just the same way as I did the, hopefully, 70 ppt saltwater, that, when diluted in half, makes 35 ppt.




I dont know said:


> I'm gearing up for my next attempt. Came here specifically ask if I should get a sponge filter for the salt water portion or roll with the air stone again?
> 
> I currently have a thriving sponge filtered crypt tank populated by cories and amanos. The tank is barely touched except to top off with water. I first noticed one of the amanos with eggs 4 weeks ago and another a couple weeks after. I expect this amano to hatch within two weeks.
> 
> ...


Thanks! 

I don't know if a sponge filter is any better or worse than just using an air stone. Air stone = smaller bubbles, but sponge filter = cycling a tank and beneficial bacteria. I haven't come across anyone who has used sponge filters to try and raise zoes, but maybe it's something I missed?

I'm not sure you can use a seeded freshwater sponge for a saltwater tank, as it might kill off the beneficial bacteria.


As far as diatoms go... and I learned some of this a little late (not sure why I didn't catch it earlier!) - diatoms like low light, silicates (think... play sand or blasting sand) and phosphates. I had light on 24/7, so although I did get some diatoms, I ended up with cyano, then some sort of green algae. (looks like green hair algae with air bubbles) Diatoms might also like excess iodine.


I'm using live phytoplankton as it's supposed to keep the water cleaner (i.e. less ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spikes), vs using dead phytoplankton which may foul up the water. If using that, you may indeed want to use a sponge filter *or* keep on top of water changes... which don't exactly sound easy to do as per boothie's experience.





I dont know said:


> What size golden pearls? I think I picked up 50 - 100mm but there is a smaller size.


I purchased the 5-50 micron size. I kind of wish I would have gotten a larger size now.

I'm growing tetraselmis which may be anywhere from 6 to 24 microns in size. (info varies depending on where you look...)

Also have some other powder foods, too.


Can't really say any of the zoes went crazy for any of the food. I mean, I did see a few swim towards larger pieces of food that they could grab onto, then munch on, but never went crazy for food like the adult shrimp do.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Update from my side.... I'm surprised, 2 zoes still alive in 2+ cups of saltwater and I'm just using an air line into the water (no air stone) for oxygen, at a very slow rate. I may shortly change over to an air stone though!


I've got 10 more that have been sitting in freshwater for a day or so now. (well, at least most of them!) Now also being drip acclimated to saltwater.


Meant to pick up more air control valves, but was unable to as I ended up sitting at home waiting for a package that was supposed to be delivered today and it never came.... so the zoes are currently without "oxygen" as I drip acclimate the newest zoes. Really screws things up...




Setup for zoes atm....

2 zoes in small critter keeper with some phytoplankton (water is green tinted but still very clear)
10 zoes in screwtop 3 cup container with saltwater being dripped in from a coffee cup (transferred from large critter keeper)

Large critter keeper is still being used for all new zoes who'll remain in freshwater for at least a day or so. (most will, at least)


I'm waiting on a large hatch so I can put them into the large critter keeper for "safe keeping" before transitioning to saltwater. 


Still have the 10 gallon, which I want to avoid using, as it's overrun with copepods, has at least one or two amphipods, the jellyfish (which are growing) and now these tiny white snails? And whatever else is living in there... even worms that are "crawling" underneath the surface of the water... as if it's a wall... going to see if anyone might want them locally... if I can figure out how to bottle them up.


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

Zoidburg said:


> As far as diatoms go... and I learned some of this a little late (not sure why I didn't catch it earlier!) - diatoms like low light, silicates (think... play sand or blasting sand) and phosphates. I had light on 24/7, so although I did get some diatoms, I ended up with cyano, then some sort of green algae. (looks like green hair algae with air bubbles) Diatoms might also like excess iodine.


You're saying that play sand would increase the amount of diatoms that would develop? That's interesting. I'll need to add some to my salt water soon.

And when you say a little light, do you mean a lower wattage of high kelvin light like would normally be used in a planted tank? 

I went with 24/7 light from a random ikea lamp last time. I'll most likely go 24/7 again but I'm considering getting a more appropriate bulb, probably a 6500k, very low wattage cfl in a painter's clamp setup.


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I dont know said:


> You're saying that play sand would increase the amount of diatoms that would develop? That's interesting. I'll need to add some to my salt water soon.
> 
> And when you say a little light, do you mean a lower wattage of high kelvin light like would normally be used in a planted tank?
> 
> I went with 24/7 light from a random ikea lamp last time. I'll most likely go 24/7 again but I'm considering getting a more appropriate bulb, probably a 6500k, very low wattage cfl in a painter's clamp setup.



Yes, sand. Any kind of sand that contains silicates. If you have silicates in your water, you can grow diatoms without sand. I'm not sure how one would check to see if silicates are in the water or not....


Zoes get about 14 hours of light out in the wild and diatoms do not like "high light", so 24/7 lighting may not be necessary. The 10 gallon tank I was using has one of the Aqueon hoods on it with an 18", 15W T8 bulb. (Aqueon standard "full spectrum" bulb) with 8,000K. I did get some diatoms, but I don't think they liked the 24/7 lighting that I had, and was eventually replaced by other algae.... so I'm thinking that 14-16 hours of light may be fine.


If not lesser amounts of lighting, then either raising the light or using a less intense light.




Since I'm "keeping" the zoes in the 30 gallon acrylic tank right now (horrible setup... but it seems to be working?), they're getting indirect light from an Odyssea Dual 6500K T5 lamp. Normally, the light would sit in the middle of the aquarium top, but with the critter keepers floating, I've been putting the light off to the side, or where it's currently sitting, on the top of the HOB... at least, until I can figure out a better setup? Just realized that although I do have a 2.5 gallon tank I could move the zoes to, I'm all out of extra lamps... lol


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Amano shrimp may have a wide range of when they give birth due to the raining/flooding season. I've seen people comment on how their berried females hold their eggs for a really long time, but some people have noticed that once doing a water change, their females release their eggs and they have baby shrimp! Dropped eggs, even without any current, can still hatch. So my thoughts... Flooding season results in the release of babies (and possibly eggs) which will then very quickly travel down to the ocean. About a month later(?), when it's the "dry season", the newly morphed shrimp can then travel back upstream.

It can take anywhere from 15-50 days for amano eggs to hatch.

If my understanding is correct, zoes do not require food while they are in freshwater as they are eating the remains of their "egg yolk". They may not be able to eat, anyway, until after a certain stage in growth, which can only be achieved in saltwater. That is to say that they can't molt and evolve if they are in freshwater.

Japanese have found that highest survival rates for zoes is at 16.9 ppt, where-as many hobbyists notice highest survival rate at or around 35 ppt. In the same study by the Japanese (which I have not read), shrimp metamorphosis faster in higher saltiness. I'm not sure if the difference here is due to nutrient content of the water? As in, the higher nutrient content of the water, the less importance salinity may be?

The water the zoes are in, in the wild, may have .2 to .6 phosphates, 2 to 6 nitrates, although I could be completely off here, too. I'm just thinking in terms of using tank water plus ocean/marine salt vs RO water and salt. My first set of zoes were in RO + Salt with a 30-32 ppt salinity, and the last one dyed around 2 1/2 weeks of age. The second batch are being put in 1/2 tank water and 1/2 RO + extra salty water.

Zoes should probably ideally be kept in temperatures between 68° and 77° F, but no less than 64° F.






Still having issues with zoes surviving, but the newest zoes should be no more than 1-9 days old and I'm still waiting on a hatch from the remaining female. I had 2 berried females, only 1 is now berried, and at most, I only got around 20 zoes...

I think I need more amanos.... and more tanks.


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## boothie (Dec 20, 2015)

LOL... More amanos... and more tanks... Yeah, I have thought about that myself. And the reason I was trying to hatch them was to get amanos for free! It may be cheaper to just buy some more amanos. They have a pretty good life span (says a person who is really frustrated).


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

I only started because of having berried amanos... not because I wanted more amanos. Seems cruel to not try at least...


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

I wish mine would just bust already. They both look so very ready.

I've gotten rid of that breeder box since this picture. Bought it on a whim but didn't like it. Ugly and bulky and I don't know that it would even keep the fry in with the holes. Probably pick a small marina external breeder next time.

What do we know about water flow and amanos? I had an elite mini filter going but turned it off thinking that it would push the fry around too much. Is that something I should actually worry about?


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## Zoidburg (Mar 8, 2016)

Well..... amanos are washed out to sea.... so...... -shrugs-


Do have an AC 50 and a tiny sponge filter in the 30g that the amanos are in, but the AC has been turned off for a couple of weeks at least, for the zoes... the sponge filter, which isn't even designed for such a large tank, still creates quite a flow, on the end of the tank where it's located at.


Should have just left the AC on this last go around...


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## I dont know (Jan 30, 2013)

The shrimp had a meeting last night but have yet to set a due date.

These guys are actually in a 10 gallon with a sponge filter. There was a elite mini water pump in this tank too, but I've had it turn off for quite a while now. I can't imagine I'll turn it back on till after the fry are out.


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