# Driftwood..DIY style



## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

All wood is found outside...at least at some point in its life! And probably much of it was found in someone's proverbial backyard, but most people don't have access to such finds. 

In my opinion, using wood of unknown origin/type could be more problematic than tracking down a nice piece (I know it's near impossible, so I feel you on that one). The potential for mold, rot, disease, etc. is simply too high for my comfort zone. However, with enough boiling, etc., just about anything can be made safe for at least length of time in the tank. 

Lot's of members hunt for their own driftwood, so I'm sure they can give you more advice on what kinds and how to prepare. Good luck, and nice topic...I'll be checking back often.


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## stev0205 (Nov 5, 2007)

A friend of the store i work at brought in a large piece of grapevine covered in java moss today, it seemed to do fine in his tank long enough for it to literally be completely covered in java moss... it looks great too!


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

You want to use dead hardwood, not soft or green wood. The last one is likely to leech poisons into the tank (depending on the wood) and soft wood will rot too quickly. No bark for the same reason (rotting). Definitely no pine or red cedar (poisons).

People have used grape vines- but only those who want the blackwater effect b/c they will leech tannins nonstop. They also would need to be thoroughly dried first.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

i always check out stores for great wood or stones and buy the nice ones. you'll never know if you want to build a new tank or rescape stuff.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> People have used grape vines- but only those who want the blackwater effect b/c they will leech tannins nonstop. They also would need to be thoroughly dried first.






This is my mission for tomorrow: i will go diving in grape vines. i will pick out the most interesting pieces i can find..

Then im gonna get all the loose stuff off of em with a wire brush. if they dont look totally dead i can place them in the oven for 3 hours or so at 250 degrees.(if they fit in there) sound okay? im a bit reluctant to try and cook the wood... i dont know how much heat is okay to use. 



tial and error? error potentially results in wood on fire + smoke alarm and a big mess.

would rather keep this stuff at a safe temp. how high can you really go before the wood will start to smoke? 



anyone tried to dry out the wood this way?



how else could it be dried? (reminds me of making jerky.) i want to put it in the oven because this is probably the only fast way to dry it. otherwise i would have to leave it outside... let the sun do its thing. 



the tannins: they leach out nonstop? the blackwater effect is cool, but not today, not for this tank. If i boil them long enough they have to stop leaching eventually huh?


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## patrock (Feb 21, 2008)

I use to sell fire safes, I know that paper (cellulose/wood)has an ignition point of 410C. I like the sound of 250 for 3 hours, well in the safe zone. If i were going to try this I would put a somewhat thicker piece in with it kinda as a test piece, cook it all for 3 hours then cut the test piece th see if it is dry. My .02


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

I'm telling you I still think this is a bad idea. Doing a quick google search for "grapevine wood in aquariums" yielded me multiple results; all of them said to avoid it. 

Here are just two links that document the problem. 

I'm not saying it can't be done, because I too have heard of hobbyists using grapevine. I just wouldn't do it myself. Lots of potential problems, very little payoff. I'd suggest you hunt for other types of wood besides grapevine to use in your aquarium. 

http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-99665.html

http://www.fishforums.com/forum/general-freshwater/508-driftwood-grapevine.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/45107-grapevine-driftwood.html


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## nonamesleft47 (Feb 2, 2008)

You will probably be alright with the grape, it's soft though so it will rot fairly quick as opposed to hardwoods. Are there not any rivers, forest in the area that you could find driftwood? I've used all kinds and never had a problem, grape, walnut, cedar, hedge apple (osage orange), I've heard people say to avoid these but I've got all of them in different tanks with no problem. The important thing is if it has been aged outside for a long time. 

As for the tannins, Purgin (sp?) is a great product. I've got a big piece of walnut in a 75 gallon that's too big to boil, charcoal would only slightly touch the tannins it produced, we are talking Rio ***** blackwater here. Put a pack of Purgin in the filter on Friday, by Sunday it was crystal clear, plus you can recharge the Purgin and reuse it. 

I don't use green wood though, everything I use has been dead for years usually. If you want to use the grape wood, you could try it, remove the bark, dry it, then soak it. I doubt it would hurt anything. One thing with newer wood, you'll probably get mold blooms, overnight it will start growing hair, it won't hurt your fish and you can either take it out and scrub it or put a bristlenose or two in the tank and they will eat it. 

Drying in the oven: You can probably do it this way but you might want to use a lower temp. At 250 there will be some checking (cracks) that develop in the wood from being dried quickly. OR you can seal the ends with Elmers glue so the moisture leaves from the sides, not the ends (where checks start). Oh, and leave the door cracked to let the moisture escape. Good luck!


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## nonamesleft47 (Feb 2, 2008)

Sorry, forgot to add to run a smell check on it while you are soaking, I've had a few pieces of greener wood fail although maple seems to do OK. I'd soak it for at least a couple of months with smell checks when you remember. If it hasn't turned black and smelly by then, go for it.


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

FYI- southern yellow cedar is OK, just not western red.


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## customdrumfinishes (Apr 4, 2008)

i dont see any driftwoods that are sold at petsores here that dont rot, leach or get mushy over time. the lfs here has manazata(spelling?) wood , it looks great is very expensive (9.99 lb) and rots in the tank sometimes. the only wood i see not rotting in tanks is some blk african wood , i dont know its name.

i also have wanted to put wierd woods in my tank, only thing i have found to do is coat any wood with epoxy resin to seal it from leeching and rotting. i dont like the brown/black water look myself. this is 100% safe for the fish. go look at any diy backgrounds with concrete and epoxy resin and see there using marine grade epoxy to cover the concrete so theres no jump in ph and last forever. dont take my word go look for epoxy covered diy backgrounds in all these reef tanks


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> You want to use dead hardwood, not soft or green wood. The last one is likely to leech poisons into the tank (depending on the wood) and soft wood will rot too quickly. No bark for the same reason (rotting). Definitely no pine or red cedar (poisons).
> 
> People have used grape vines- but only those who want the blackwater effect b/c they will leech tannins nonstop. They also would need to be thoroughly dried first.


huh?? where did you come up with this infmation? 
using live hardwood is fine, manzanita (a hardwood) works just fine taken directly off a living plant and stuck in the tank with the bark on. i can tell you first hand, cause ive done it. additionally, oaks work fine right off the plant as well, provided you dont use _Quercus suber_ with the bark still on cause it will float!

and people have used grapewood for other reasons than setting up a blackwater tank, although ill never use it again for any type of setup.


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## customdrumfinishes (Apr 4, 2008)

aquanut( using live hardwood is fine, manzanita (a hardwood) works just fine taken directly off a living plant and stuck in the tank with the bark on. i can tell you first hand, cause ive done it. additionally, oaks work fine right off the plant as well, provided you dont use _Quercus suber_ with the bark still on cause it will float!

and people have used grapewood for other reasons than setting up a blackwater tank, although ill never use it again for any type of setup.) aquanut

i have seen oak in tanks to,looked ok! but im sure any hard wood would eventualy get soft or rot over time.

hey i have some petrified wood it wont rot,leech or get soft ever! guaranteed lol.


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> FYI- southern yellow cedar is OK, just not western red.


and unless you are using a regional common name for a plant that is not a cedar; both of these are decidious species which produce copious amounts of sap and would not be suitable for the tank.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

customdrumfinishes said:


> i also have wanted to put wierd woods in my tank, only thing i have found to do is coat any wood with epoxy resin to seal it from leeching and rotting. i dont like the brown/black water look myself. this is 100% safe for the fish. go look at any diy backgrounds with concrete and epoxy resin and see there using marine grade epoxy to cover the concrete so theres no jump in ph and last forever. dont take my word go look for epoxy covered diy backgrounds in all these reef tanks


I'm not questioning your ability to successfully harbor some bizzare-o wood in your tank, especially if you seal it with resin; you could put just about anything in a tank if it were sealed with epoxy resin; pancakes, slippers... You never mentioned this before, so I didn't think it was an option. Personally, I'm not a fan of "sealed" driftwood, it just never looks quite right to me, although I have seen some pieces where it's almost unnoticeable. 
Whatever the case, good luck with your project, and keep us updated as per your progress. I'd like to see some pics of the wood you've found, it sounds interesting. Maybe a new DIY thread - 'preparing weird woods for safe aquarium use'?!


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## customdrumfinishes (Apr 4, 2008)

ColeMan said:


> I'm not questioning your ability to successfully harbor some bizzare-o wood in your tank, especially if you seal it with resin; you could put just about anything in a tank if it were sealed with epoxy resin; pancakes, slippers... You never mentioned this before, so I didn't think it was an option. Personally, I'm not a fan of "sealed" driftwood, it just never looks quite right to me, although I have seen some pieces where it's almost unnoticeable.
> Whatever the case, good luck with your project, and keep us updated as per your progress. I'd like to see some pics of the wood you've found, it sounds interesting. Maybe a new DIY thread - 'preparing weird woods for safe aquarium use'?!


i was just tryin to say that if you wanna use something other than driftwood you can if its epoxy covered, you can get flat finish epoxy and you cant see a shine on it. i love the way real wood looks in the tank, just dont like the potenial ph flux,rot and tannis or high 9.99-14.99 a pound price tag on it. id love to see a pancake and slippers in a tank lmao.


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## ColeMan (Mar 9, 2008)

See, i didn't know about the flat finish epoxy, I'm glad I learned...that explains why some "sealed" driftwood doesn't bother...I must agree with you on some of the drawbacks of real driftwood, but for me it's worth it. I may get some of that flat finish epoxy and seal a pancake and throw it in my tank for ya!


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## customdrumfinishes (Apr 4, 2008)

yeah ask your local boat store about differnet epoxys, they have clear, amber and other colors to


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

aquanut415 said:


> and unless you are using a regional common name for a plant that is not a cedar; both of these are decidious species which produce copious amounts of sap and would not be suitable for the tank.


LOL yep it's a common name- think Southern cedar swamps filled with gators and spanish moss, massive moss-covered trees with their roots sticking out of the water... most ppl who've been to the Southeast would know it? No clue what the scientific name is (suppose I could google but its been a long day). Pretty sure it's a cedar, though. Got plenty growing in my backyard. 

General guidelines always have some exceptions. What I gave were general guidelines.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

i skimmed the articles that reccomend not using grapevine.

i have also read of a few people using it without problems.
i think it looks nice, and i will use it if there is a way it can be used without being problematic.

i am concerned about the mold, i could stick a small piece in the tank and see if the stuff i have does indeed get moldy, even after it is cooked and boiled and very very dead.

my home is located 1/4 mile south of the san juanquin river
the problem with that is that there are not many good access points; there are houses and golf courses all around the river bank. i dont really want to go prowling around the country club sunday afternoon on a scavenger hunt.

however i do know of a few places with fairly public access, and one day i may go there and collect a bag full of goodies.

anyway, sealing it with epoxy would work, but it sounds labor intensive.
mixing, letting it dry, cleaning up the mess, (newspaper, popsicle sticks, cardboard.......) the stuff gets everywhere too.


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## customdrumfinishes (Apr 4, 2008)

lauraleellbp said:


> LOL yep it's a common name- think Southern cedar swamps filled with gators and spanish moss, massive moss-covered trees with their roots sticking out of the water... most ppl who've been to the Southeast would know it? No clue what the scientific name is (suppose I could google but its been a long day). Pretty sure it's a cedar, though. Got plenty growing in my backyard.
> 
> General guidelines always have some exceptions. What I gave were general guidelines.


your probably thinking of cypress knees sticking out the water? maybe


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## 247Plants (May 10, 2006)

Why not go up into the Coarsegold area? It isnt that far from you and Im sure you can find a bunch of stuff in that area....


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## aquanut415 (Jan 21, 2006)

lauraleellbp said:


> LOL yep it's a common name- think Southern cedar swamps filled with gators and spanish moss, massive moss-covered trees with their roots sticking out of the water... most ppl who've been to the Southeast would know it? No clue what the scientific name is (suppose I could google but its been a long day). Pretty sure it's a cedar, though. Got plenty growing in my backyard.
> 
> General guidelines always have some exceptions. What I gave were general guidelines.


well what good does a common name do anyone, especially when you still dont know what kind of tree you are really referring to? but you are pretty sure its cedar? if the tree you are telling people to seek out is a cedar, its a softwood conifer and is not suitable. your general guidelines in this case aren't even generally correct. infact you contradict yourself within the few posts you made in this thread alone.


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## nonamesleft47 (Feb 2, 2008)

In the east there would be eastern red cedar (Juniperus virginiana), eastern white cedar (Thuja occidentalis) and bald cypress(Taxodium distichum), I think *lauraleellbp *was refering to bald cypress. They are refered to as soft woods in a lumber aspect but are not nearly as soft as say pine species. Also bald cypress is virtually indestructable and will last longer than anyone knows underwater. The only tree commonly refered to as yellow cedar is an extreme northern tree (Alaska, northern Canada)(Chamaecyparis nootkatensis) is the scientific name. 

Any of the three are safe as I have used driftwood from them all (yes I have hauled driftwood from Louisiana and Minnesota to Kentucky). The bald cypress grows in swampy areas in the south and the white cedar fills that niche in the north. I don't have personal experience with western cedar so I can't comment. Also, the above comment is based on long dead driftwood, not green wood. 

Any driftwood that isn't epoxy impregnated is going to decompose over time, it's what wood does, it doesn't matter if it's "iron" wood from 2,000 miles away or grapevine from your back yard. I use bristlenose plecos in all of my tanks and they eat this layer down (coming out as sawdust on the other end). Eventually (years) the wood will be eaten down to nothing and you can replace it with another piece. I've tried sealing wood with epoxy but prefer the benefits of leaving it unsealed over the shine of sealed wood, and the pain it is to seal it. I've got a boat full of wood in my driveway so it isn't like I can't go pick out another piece. 

DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR-take a trip to the river, I'm sure you'll find alternatives for your grapevine with alot less work. Look at a map of the river, below dams, on the outside of sharp bends, anything that constricts flow will gather driftwood by the tons. Good luck on your hunt.


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## DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR (Apr 25, 2008)

it would be awesome to go on a driftwood hunt 
i plan on doing it one day soon. plus who knows what kinds of plants or rocks i may find.

anyway, i looked out in the bins. we use the wood for a restauant/catering business. we keep it in old produce bins out in the parking lot, 3 parking spaces worth. anyway the wood is low now and i couldnt find too many interesting pieces of grapevine, ive got a lot of big cut logs (presumably from almond trees) that look like firewood that are only good to be burned although what i did find was very dead. a guy comes to deliver a load every month... so when he comes hopefully he will bring grape. then i will have something to look for.

otherwise whenever i see a fit opportunity im goin to the river. there are many areas i could go looking, including yosemite, if i can find the time.
i work 7 days out of the week!


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## customdrumfinishes (Apr 4, 2008)

they have some awsome pieces of grapevine at my pet stores in the reptile ailes, its kinda cheap and looks neat but it doesnt say aquarium use like other woods do!


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