# How to fix high Ph low KH/GH?



## slb (Aug 15, 2010)

I am new to the forum and have been getting some great information on setting up a low-tech aquarium; thanks everyone.

I am preparing to fill my tank and add plants, and have been bottle testing my tap water. As has been mentioned in the forum in more than one place, water utilities can artificially elevate the ph. This must be the case with my water. With API test kits, my water out of the tap is ph=8.4, KH=3 and GH=6. The readings are the same after the water sits for a day.

What I have not been able to find is the solution. How can I get the best environment for my fish and plants? If I add something to inrease the KH, won't that also elevate the ph and utlimately decrease the CO2?

I plan to use a soil substrate. I bought four different bags of soil at Lowes and bottle tested the water with them also; 3 no-name cheap soils and a bag of Miracle-Grow Organic. The 3 cheap bags all have turbidity issues, but the Miracle-Grow was very clear after 2 days. Two of the cheap bags did improve both the hardness and ph, but unfortunately, the Miracle-Grow had almost no effect so far.

Any suggestions?

Would oyster shell help long term?


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## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

I think that a KH of 3 is sufficient to keep any wild pH swings in check, and I think that a GH of 6 is pretty decent. Is the issue you are concerned with most the high pH? I am having similar issues with my tap water (pH: 7.8 KH:0 GH:26.7 ppm (or 1.5)). 



> What I have not been able to find is the solution. How can I get the best environment for my fish and plants? If I add something to inrease the KH, won't that also elevate the ph and utlimately decrease the CO2?


I don't have a solution for you, but I don't think that you're going to see much pH movement, even adding sodium bicarb to raise KH. I think what needs to happen is we need to lower KH, thereby lowering pH(unless, like me, your util adds chemicals to control pH, then you're SOL). As long as you have between 1-2 KH, you should have sufficient buffering capacity to prevent pH swings, so that's where I would go.

I don't believe that elevating pH removes CO2, it just moves it away from transitioning into carbonic acid(which I think is more bio-available). The gaseous CO2 is still just as available at a high pH, as it is at a low one. 

The only suggestion I have for you is to try and filter your tap water, and see if there is something(present alkalinity aside) that could be influencing the pH in an upward direction. This was my case.. after filtering my tap water, the pH settled out at 6.8. I am still in the same boat though. I have pretty much the same thread going on in the fert/water params. section :biggrin:


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I am dealing with the same problem. Tap water is 8.6 , Gh and Kh doesn't even register. Found that this occurs when the city treats the water with phosphates. Thus trying the use of phosphate remover in canister filter and changing water with distilled water. Easiest but expensive way is to go to RO water system.


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## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

Hilde said:


> I am dealing with the same problem. Tap water is 8.6 , Gh and Kh doesn't even register. Found that this occurs when the city treats the water with phosphates. Thus trying the use of phosphate remover in canister filter and changing water with distilled water. Easiest but expensive way is to go to RO water system.


What's interesting, at least in my case, is that I tested for phosphates, and the test it didn't detect any(not saying that it's not there, just not enough for the test kit to read). That's what has me so stumped.


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## slb (Aug 15, 2010)

Thanks for the information. I may call the water utility to see if this is what they are doing. What does RO stand for?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

slb said:


> Thanks for the information. I may call the water utility to see if this is what they are doing. What does RO stand for?


Reverse osmosis water. 

It is best to just buy plants and fish suited for your water. Don't use the ph down chemical. It just creates a yo yo problem. Also some have success adding boiled peat moss to the filter or put it in a bag in the tank.

I had traded plants for apsitos thus trying to adjust things a bit.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

Suspect that you are not dealing with the water plant adding chemicals. You may be dealing with the natural effects of the heavy amounts of coal in your area.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

PlantedRich said:


> Suspect that you are not dealing with the water plant adding chemicals. You may be dealing with the natural effects of the heavy amounts of coal in your area.


Perhaps that is true. For PH in fish only tank, quarantine, is 7.2. It was 7.6 Aug 7. I am using a canister filter for it. In it I have ammo-carb. In planted tank have river sand, and dosing with Seachem Equilibrium. Also put Phosguard in bag in it. Still ph is 7.6. 

My gold apistos is loosing her color. Told the river sand could be affecting the ph too. Perhaps it has remnants of coal in it too. Plan is to move all into 29 gallon tank and use pool filter sand.


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## slb (Aug 15, 2010)

ONEFANG,

I read your thread in the ferts area and decided to try my own UN-scientific experiment. I attached an old Waterpik charcoal-type filter to my kitchen faucet.

ph dropped from 8.4 to7.4 (I can live with that)
GH only dropped from 6 to 5
and KH only dropped from 3 to 2

No idea why my GH and KH didn't drop off the way they did with your PUR filter.

Then I added some epson salts just to see what would happen. GH went to 12+ as expected; no change in KH or ph.

I'm supposed to get 200 gallon per filter cartridge. So, at $10 a cartridge, this may be a livable solution. The initial fill may be a hassel, but top-offs shouldn't be so bad.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I didn't specify what area I meant about the coal. I hope I didn't cause confusion but I meant the South end of Illinois. It is kind of a little known fact that that area has quite a bit of coal and oil underground. 
I should back out and read more carefully as I can't explain why the coal does what it does to the water. I worked water treatment in that area at one time and found that water could be totally different just a mile down the road here and there. 
Hilde- Do you also have large amounts of coal or am I the one confused????


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## deleted_user_6 (Jun 19, 2010)

slb said:


> ONEFANG,
> 
> I read your thread in the ferts area and decided to try my own UN-scientific experiment. I attached an old Waterpik charcoal-type filter to my kitchen faucet.
> 
> ...



The PUR filter that I am using is a multiple stage filter. I am not exactly sure what the medium is, but it appears to be stripping the water pretty well.
After all the mucking around with testing and whatnot, I decided to just buy an RO/DI system. Not the most economical solution, but I was able to justify it to my wife(no more paying for drinking water). :biggrin:

Unless you are trying to breed certain fish/shrimp, those params should be ok. To bring the pH down a little more, you could try running peat in your filter, and/or adding almond and oak leaves to your tank.


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## slb (Aug 15, 2010)

PlantedRich said:


> I didn't specify what area I meant about the coal. I hope I didn't cause confusion but I meant the South end of Illinois. It is kind of a little known fact that that area has quite a bit of coal and oil underground.
> I should back out and read more carefully as I can't explain why the coal does what it does to the water. I worked water treatment in that area at one time and found that water could be totally different just a mile down the road here and there.
> Hilde- Do you also have large amounts of coal or am I the one confused????


I believe you are correct about the coal in times past. My water comes from Kinkaid reservoir. The water-treatment plant told me they raise the ph to protect the pipes (sodium _something_) per government regulations. They say almost every municipal water utility does this now days.


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## PlantedRich (Jul 21, 2010)

I'm sure about the coal in the area. That's how Carbon- dale got it's name. Carbon=coal in this case. They may need to do something there to raise the PH. I'm sure a lot don't but they may be speaking loosley. Places that have lots of limestone without the coal already have high PH so they would not. Just another little wrinkle to figure. That's part of the reason there is so much confusion about how to manage our tanks. We don't have the same water to start.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

slb said:


> The water-treatment plant told me they raise the ph to protect the pipes (sodium _something_) per government regulations.


Yeh, I had read that when ph is high and gh is low that the water is treated with phosphates. This prevents the pipes from leaching minerals into the water. 

Uncertain about the coal.


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## JimE (Feb 5, 2021)

slb said:


> ONEFANG,
> 
> I read your thread in the ferts area and decided to try my own UN-scientific experiment. I attached an old Waterpik charcoal-type filter to my kitchen faucet.
> 
> ...


 You could put a “whole house” charcoal filter at point of entry, good for 6-months to a year, replace cartridge way less often and a lot less than 5 cents a gallon... 
I think. Check out a larger in-line filter?


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