# Too hot for Neons?



## pferris (Aug 19, 2014)

I would lower it to around 75 I have mine at 78 cuz they have ich so far no deaths and ich is going away


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## Entomologist210 (Nov 16, 2013)

Looks like normal neon behavior to me, though I think they prefer 77-78F. Neons, and especially new neons that haven't been housed together establish a pecking order like a pack of dogs. They'll settle down after a few weeks to a month after they become comfortable. I have mine at 80 with no problems and when I have ich I increase to 87F for one week with no ill effects.


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

I wouldn't say anything is wrong with them or with the temp but let me say this. At 82 degrees their metabolism is increased, which in turn shortens their life. I would bring it down to 78 or so.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Thanks guys, a pecking order would make sense. I recall them doing this at first before finally calming down, then restarting the entire process once the German Blue Rams were introduced. As for the temps, I feel 82 is the best compromise I can do for the Neons, Corys and GBRs- not as cold as the Neons/Corys like, but also not as hot as the GBRs would prefer.


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## ErtyJr (Jun 21, 2014)

StrangeDejavu said:


> Thanks guys, a pecking order would make sense. I recall them doing this at first before finally calming down, then restarting the entire process once the German Blue Rams were introduced. As for the temps, I feel 82 is the best compromise I can do for the Neons, Corys and GBRs- not as cold as the Neons/Corys like, but also not as hot as the GBRs would prefer.



Your right, didn't know you had GBR's as well. Carry on then.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

No worries, I should have added it in the original post.

While we're on the topic of Neons: Does this look like the result of fighting/mechanical injury or the start of a bacterial infection? It's not fuzzy, just looks like a white bruise. Normal swimming behavior, normal appetite. Pictures were too difficult, so here's a few grabs from a video.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

StrangeDejavu, you mentioned having 12 males & 2 females -

Please tell me how you sexed your Neons - I haven't been able to tell which are which, until the females are more or less mature, adult-sized, and obviously full of eggs when they are ready to spawn.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

discuspaul said:


> StrangeDejavu, you mentioned having 12 males & 2 females -
> 
> Please tell me how you sexed your Neons - I haven't been able to tell which are which, until the females are more or less mature, adult-sized, and obviously full of eggs when they are ready to spawn.


You can tell by checking them from the side. Females will have a rounder belly with a bent/crooked blue stripe, while the males are more slender and have a straight blue stripe. As you said though, this method only really applies once sexually matured.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Not that I disbelieve you, but I've been keeping fish for well over 50 years, including having kept probably hundreds of neons over time, and I had never heard of the crooked stripe/straight stripe hypothesis being valid, and I'm not sure that's an accurate approach to sexing them.
I know that's probably been repeated many times by others, but whether it's correct or not is open to question in my view.
I spawned neons many years ago, once, and the only thing I knew for sure was that I had at least 1 male & 1 female, because I actually got fry. LOL

Here's a link to a video which corresponds with my thoughts on the matter:


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

discuspaul said:


> Not that I disbelieve you, but I've been keeping fish for well over 50 years, including having kept probably hundreds of neons over time, and I've never heard of the crooked stripe/straight stripe hypothesis, and I'm not sure that's an accurate approach to sexing them.
> I know that's been repeated many times by others, but whether it's correct or not is open to question in my view.
> I spawned neons many years ago, once, and the only thing I knew for sure was that I had at least 1 male & 1 female, because I actually got fry. LOL
> 
> ...


Interesting, a while back I Googled "sexing Neon Tetra" and that's the illustration I got from a few different websites so I went with it. Since you have experience with Neons, could you look at my pictures a few posts up and see what you think? Just noticed it this morning and the fish is acting otherwise normal.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

Are those pics of the same fish, or is it 3 different fish ?
I suspect it's the same fish, and it looks mature, well-colored and healthy.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it - I feel it's just a genetic abnormality in the coloring of the abdomen.

Getting back to the straight stripe/bent stripe matter, I believe the body shape of a maturing fish, with the fish getting a little rounder & heavier-bodied, is going to naturally skew the shaping of the blue stripe - i.e. produce a slight bend in the normally straight stripe - that's all. Make sense ?

Also, in a group of 14 neons, I think it's quite unusual to have 12 males and 2 females. 
So, I suspect your 2 'females' are simply heavier-bodied than the others. There are likely other females in the group, they simply haven't rounded out as much yet.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Indeed, it's of the same fish, just different angles.

Very true on the bending stripe point as well, that makes sense. So there's really no way to know for sure then until you see a gravid fish, huh?


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

I would keep the Rams in a separate tank. Much warmer than Neons, or most Cories need. 
Better tank mates would be Cards, Rummy Nose, Diamond or other Tetras that can handle that high temperature better.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

StrangeDejavu said:


> Indeed, it's of the same fish, just different angles.
> 
> Very true on the bending stripe point as well, that makes sense. So there's really no way to know for sure then until you see a gravid fish, huh?


 That's my view - that's what I had heard numerous times from experienced egg-layer breeders over many years, and I'll stick with it ! LOL
Matter of fact, it's extremely difficult to sex many, if not most, smaller egg-laying species like tetras.
In many fish outside of live-bearers, it's usually only the coloration of the males vs. females, along with body shape, that gives them away.

Also, I've kept discus for many years and bred them several times, and given their large size as adults, it's difficult to sex them with certainty even when they're right into the spawning process. Angels are somewhat the same.


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## StrangeDejavu (Jun 23, 2014)

Diana said:


> I would keep the Rams in a separate tank. Much warmer than Neons, or most Cories need.
> Better tank mates would be Cards, Rummy Nose, Diamond or other Tetras that can handle that high temperature better.


What about Harlequins? Can they tolerate 82 degrees? My original plan was to go Harlequin and Rummynose but my LFS had neither, so I bought the Neons instead. I don't know where I would rehome 14x Neons but I also don't want them to be wildly uncomfortable either.


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## discuspaul (Jul 27, 2010)

I kept Harlequins with Discus @ 83 F for a couple of years, along with Cardinals, Rummy-Noses & several strains of Cories, and they all seemed to do fairly well.
Who knows though, whether the higher temps shorten the lives of some, like the Harlequins.


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