# Can GH be too high?



## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

I've been searching around and read a few posts here about GH/KH, there seems to be some differences in opinion but many mention that either isn't much to worry about.

However the water were I live in England (Oxfordshire) is extremly hard as we live on top of pure chalk:

KH: 12-13
GH: 20
PH 7.0-7.2 (7.2 in the morning)

I use preassurized CO2 at around 1 bubble per sec.

My question is will those values be so high that they affect my plants and fish? (I'm trying to make up my mind about buying a small RO unit).


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Mine's 24 in these tanks:


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

Are those Myriophyllum Mezianum? That's the ones I'm worried that won't like my water. But from the look of it I have nothing to worry about? 

I guess that answers my question, no point getting a RO unit for the sake of plants and fish? It's just that the plant catalogue I have all show GH20 as the upper limit for just about anything I have in my tank. And my water might even be above GH20..


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## fishykid1 (Apr 5, 2010)

Tom aren't most of the plants that are in that tank suited for hard water? I see what I believe is a Cryptocoryne balansae. May be wrong..



*** Better suited?***


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Golightly said:


> I've been searching around and read a few posts here about GH/KH, there seems to be some differences in opinion but many mention that either isn't much to worry about.
> 
> However the water were I live in England (Oxfordshire) is extremly hard as we live on top of pure chalk:
> 
> ...


It just depends on the fish and plants that you intend to keep. In general, both the fish and the plants that are considered 'difficult' prefer soft, acidic water and thus would not do well in your tap water.


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

*how do you spot?*

How do you spot problems with GH/KH on plants? Is there anything I should be looking for?

I have a lot of different plants, majority of them says they should be ok in up to GH20 but some are GH13. As I'm new to this it's hard for me to spot what problems might be due to hardness.


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## barbarossa4122 (Jan 16, 2010)

Hi Tom,

Do you keep a high GH in those tanks intentionally ? Now, I am thinking that mine (9) it's too low. Amazing tanks, btw.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Golightly said:


> How do you spot problems with GH/KH on plants? Is there anything I should be looking for?
> 
> I have a lot of different plants, majority of them says they should be ok in up to GH20 but some are GH13. As I'm new to this it's hard for me to spot what problems might be due to hardness.


It's not so much plant problems as it is plant death or abnormally slow growth relative to lighting/CO2 levels. Can you list some of the plants you intend on stocking? Then we can provide you with better advice.

Cheers,

Snausage


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

snausage said:


> It's not so much plant problems as it is plant death or abnormally slow growth relative to lighting/CO2 levels. Can you list some of the plants you intend on stocking? Then we can provide you with better advice.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Snausage


I currently have tried to grow:

Bacopa Caroliniana
Anubis Barteri var. nana
Eleocharis Parvula
Hydrocotyle Verticillata (my favourite)
Ludwigia Glandulosa (doing well it seems)
Ludwigia Arcuata
Microsorum Pteropus "Narrow"
Myriophyllum Mezianum (doesn't seem to do very well)
Pogostemon Helferi
Rotala Rotunidfolia (seems to grow fast)
Rotala Wallichii (didn't do well and removed it)
Staurogyne Repens
Vallisneria Americana (grows fast)
Vesicularia Ferriei


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Golightly said:


> I currently have tried to grow:
> 
> Bacopa Caroliniana
> Anubis Barteri var. nana
> ...


IME, high kH seems more detrimental to plants than high gH.

It seems like everything you've tried with really fine leaves (myriophyllum, r. wallichi) hasn't grown well. That may just be due to detritus settling between the leaves.

If the ludwigias start giving you trouble, lower your temperature to around 23C or less, as they seem very sensitive to higher temperatures. 

I have had issues with anubias in hard water, despite it being such an easy plant.

Other plants to try:

bobitis (grows very well in hard water)
crytocorynes (most species)
subwassertang 
pellia
any moss you're fond of
echindorus (most species)
hygrophilias (most species)
lotus lillies 


Are you setting up a new planted tank? I hear that JBL aquabasis is a fantastic substrate additive. Unfortunately, it is not available in the US.

As for the ro unit, it is definitely worth it if you can afford it and you are devoted to the hobby. I balked at purchasing one for a while, but finally bought a very low end model and it has turned out to be the best piece of gear I own.


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

I did end up buying a RO unit, but damn it's slow! Will certainly make water changes a bit more of a hassle. 

I do have a tendency to overfeed, so maybe that's why the fine leaved plants had issues. Could also be that I'm a bit impatient. 

But yes, new to planted tanks. Getting a 2nd larger tank in Feb and going to use ADA substrate + powersand as it's supposed to work very well.

Would recently planted plants often go a bit brown/yellow around the edges then recover? The grasses I have tried including "Eleocharis Parvula" has had yellowish leaves very soon after planting them, but then seems to slowly recover.


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## snausage (Mar 8, 2010)

Golightly said:


> Would recently planted plants often go a bit brown/yellow around the edges then recover? The grasses I have tried including "Eleocharis Parvula" has had yellowish leaves very soon after planting them, but then seems to slowly recover.


Yes, that is the most likely explanation.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

barbarossa4122 said:


> Hi Tom,
> 
> Do you keep a high GH in those tanks intentionally ? Now, I am thinking that mine (9) it's too low. Amazing tanks, btw.


Santa Barbara, CA tap, rock hard liquid nails.
Davis CA, little less GH, higher KH, but the Mg was sky high
Sacramento CA: Sierra Snow melt from the American River, like Sf tap from similar sources, GH maybe 1-3 and then KH of 1 or a tad higher.
Marin: mix of sources, GH 9, KH 5 and high PO4.

So by living in many difference tap water locations, you get a wide feel for what is possible and what is not. If you add RO to these harder taps, then that's a good comparison.

Few will lard on GH, KH to explore harder levels however if they have soft tap to start with.

The Poster should also discuss this at the UKAPS forum, since this will help other locals in that region address the issues and may be more helpful, specific.

I know CA/OR/WA, some of the midwest and FL.
This is a wide range, so most fall somewhere in between.


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Golightly said:


> I did end up buying a RO unit, but damn it's slow! Will certainly make water changes a bit more of a hassle.
> 
> I do have a tendency to overfeed, so maybe that's why the fine leaved plants had issues. Could also be that I'm a bit impatient.
> 
> ...


You realize that there is a lot of waste water brine rejection correct?
I've grown hair grass is hard water without issues.

You might want a different Trace mix, say Tropica's or similar, or spike the trace you have with DTPA Fe.

Several on line vendors in the UK sell it.
You can also discuss power sand, I do not ever use it after tryign it a few times, with/without and found no differences, many have stated the same.
ADA AS I is good stuff however. 

I would suggest that product. 

Ask over at UKAPS.org.


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## barbarossa4122 (Jan 16, 2010)

Thank you Tom.


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## Golightly (Jan 14, 2011)

plantbrain said:


> You realize that there is a lot of waste water brine rejection correct?
> I've grown hair grass is hard water without issues.
> 
> You might want a different Trace mix, say Tropica's or similar, or spike the trace you have with DTPA Fe.
> ...


I use Tropicas fertilizers, but I can't figure out if it contains FE.. does it? 

And yes I noticed there is about 4x as much waste water than you get clean out of a RO unit, terrible waste but I can use it for my garden instead.. not that we are lacking rain here in England though.

I've got ADA powersand and Amazonia substrate ready to use on my new tank I'm setting up, that should hopefully help too.


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