# Testing out some 10W Chinese LEDS



## aweeby

that looks pretty bright, considering the depth of a 55g. how much did you end up paying for the four modules, if you don't mind my asking?


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## tentacles

No idea which ones he has but 10w chinese modules are like $6 shipped from dealextreme.. Of course, XML's are $6.80 each from ledgroupbuy, and put out at least as much light, although drivers are hard to find. 

I'm curious about 2 things, are those 6500k? And, are these the square emitters, or the round ones? It looks like if you ever need more light, all you'll have to do is put reflectors on.


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## Naekuh

which ones did u get?

the circle or the square?










i have made this bold statement many times on this forum..

when it comes to LED's i dont think anything beats the chinese 10W in our DIY's

Ive been getting excellent growths off them.


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## blackdog76

they are square, 10,000K 

were around 7.99 shipped each, and each one has a driver that was around $5 each


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## Dragonfish

Can you post a link to the ones you bought?


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## Brian10962001

Yes, links or PN's please. So no optics, you just let the LEDs shine?


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## blackdog76

LEDS









DRIVERS









Never seen optics for 10W LEDS, this site wont let me post ebay links


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## zoklor

I actually have the 65ook round ones from deal extreme. They work pretty good and have some nice growth under them. I will be adding a third one over my 29g tank, even though I do pretty well with just 2, I think it could use more light.

This is the one- http://www.dealextreme.com/p/10w-led-emitter-11v-12v-500-lumens-white-6500k-5876

Along with a 4"x4" extruded aluminum heatsink from - http://www.heatsinkusa.com/

Although, you could get one from deal extreme, I have only seen round ones. I like the squareness of the extruded ones due to ease in mounting them.


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## scapegoat

blackdog76 said:


> LEDS
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> DRIVERS
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> Never seen optics for 10W LEDS, this site wont let me post ebay links



you can post the auction id though. so you used a driver per led? can we see the wiring?


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## [email protected]

scapegoat said:


> you can post the auction id though. so you used a driver per led? can we see the wiring?


AC goes to the two wires of the same color, on the left. The tilde indicates AC. 
The wires on the right side are + and -. 
Those go to the + side of the LED and the - side of the LED. 
We're fortunate that the wire color is actually correct. 

Of course, I've had prior experience guessing. 
I got a bag of drivers with pink, brown, and white leads once. That was interesting.


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## scapegoat

[email protected] said:


> AC goes to the two wires of the same color, on the left. The tilde indicates AC.
> The wires on the right side are + and -.
> Those go to the + side of the LED and the - side of the LED.
> We're fortunate that the wire color is actually correct.
> 
> Of course, I've had prior experience guessing.
> I got a bag of drivers with pink, brown, and white leads once. That was interesting.


it'll take a 100-240volts ac?

meaning i could literally plug one right into a socket? 

each 10w LED requires a driver, how would one wire multiples to a single receptacle?


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## blackdog76

Yes, one driver per LED. Kind of a pain in the ass and a lot of wiring but I wired it all into one heavy gauge power cord.


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## Naekuh

lolz...

ummm just to let u guys know those drivers handle 1 LED.

If you guys are going to do a chain of 2 or more, you can get a more reliable meanwell, and set the driving current to 900mA. 

I have 4 tied to a ELN-60-48P, the next thing i want to do is tie that on a dusk / dawn controller next.

Second thing i should note.. the circles have a smaller firing arc vs the squares... the lights intensity from the circle is a bit more focused because of the smaller arc. 

Other then that, they are all great LED's.... as i said ive been playing with them for a while, and they are far better then any cree's ive played with with the exception of the XP-L @ 3Amps.


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## fishykid1

Did you really just say they're better than Cree? I would like to inform you that the Cree LED's are also only 3W LED's compared to the 10W. Also, they are XM-L not XP-L. 

Other than that, this looks promising as long as they hold up...


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## Brian10962001

fishykid1 said:


> Did you really just say they're better than Cree? I would like to inform you that the Cree LED's are also only 3W LED's compared to the 10W. Also, they are XM-L not XP-L.
> 
> Other than that, this looks promising as long as they hold up...


He's talking about over driving the XM-L's and you're correct XP-L is a typo. I don't think its that hard of one to make, Crees went XP-G, XM-L.


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## silvawispa

The X-LM is rated for 3A, it is a 10W LED. (The XP-G is 3W though, if I remeber right.)
Overdriving XM-Ls up to 4.5A has apparently been tried, but proved pointless. Although it didn't destroy the unit, which gives a good indication as to the build quality and potential longevity.

Personally I underdrive mine at 2.1A on a passive (at the moment, I'll get around to sealing the water leaks one day, I promise!) heatsink.

I would be surprised if the chinese 10W LED's put out anywhere near the same PAR, the efficiency of those larger die units is not as good as the top of the line CREEs, and more surprised if the CRI (colour rendition index) was even in the same league.

I'm happy to read evidence to the contrary as it will make the rest of the conversion of my tank that much cheaper.


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## Profector

How many of these LED's do you think you need over a standard 55g tank to acheive high light/PAR? These might look good with a couple low watt 10000k mixed in.


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## Profector

I guess the answer would be four.


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## tentacles

cree makes 1, 3, 5, 10, 20 and 25w emitters. XML are 10w.


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## blackdog76

You can talk about this crap all you want. I'm not worried about PAR numbers. My Cuba likes the new LEDS and results are all I'm worried about.


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## sendthis

Good to hear positive comments on these... I was worried. I just bought two warm white and two cool white 10W LEDs (square) and another five 3W red LEDs on eBay. I am probably going to underdrive them... so running the 10W at maybe 5-7W and the 3W at about 2W. 

I got my first one in today (I like to order them from different sellers - although some of them look like the same guy with different seller names). Waiting on the rest...


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## Naekuh

blackdog76 said:


> My Cuba likes the new LEDS and results are all I'm worried about.


+1 yup my cuba loves the 10W's too. 

so you can talk all the crap about them you guys want... but i still stand behind my statement. 
These 10W's i like them much better then the 3W non XM-L Cree's. 
And lets not get started on the bridgelux wannabe's.... there great... but... there not 10W. 

But when u see growth like this, your sold...










My moss loves it, and so does a anubis that thinks its a sword plant in growth speed:










This is where it started:


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## Adkins.its

I'm really thinking about trying one of these out for my 11.4 gallon. Do you guys think one of these a foot or so over the water would do well? Its 11.8x18.9x11.8".

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk


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## Naekuh

Adkins.its said:


> I'm really thinking about trying one of these out for my 11.4 gallon. Do you guys think one of these a foot or so over the water would do well? Its 11.8x18.9x11.8".
> 
> Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk


they have a wide arc.. i believe its somewhere between 160 degree's on the square, and 140 degree's on the circle.

on a 11.4 i dont recommend u using anymore then 2.... 3 and ur asking for it with algae no matter how much co2 you inject.


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## Adkins.its

Well I was considering just using a single light if that would cover the spread of my tank.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk


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## Chlorophile

Naekuh said:


> +1 yup my cuba loves the 10W's too.
> 
> so you can talk all the crap about them you guys want... but i still stand behind my statement.
> These 10W's i like them much better then the 3W non XM-L Cree's.
> And lets not get started on the bridgelux wannabe's.... there great... but... there not 10W.
> 
> But when u see growth like this, your sold...
> 
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> My moss loves it, and so does a anubis that thinks its a sword plant in growth speed:
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> This is where it started:


And so does your algae!


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## samamorgan

blackdog76 said:


> You can talk about this crap all you want. I'm not worried about PAR numbers. My Cuba likes the new LEDS and results are all I'm worried about.


Talking crap on a good solution is complete retardation, and anyone who does so is just anti progression. That aside, I would love to know the PAR output of these vs XM-L T6. Just for objective comparison, since both emmiters cost about the same. Another couple emmiters I would like to see tried is the CREE MC-E and MT-G. The MT-G in particular looks very interesting, made to replace MR16 bulbs.


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## tentacles

I have, sitting here in my lap, a box with 4 18w Citizen 5000k 85CRI emitters in it.. I'll have a chance to test one later (although not over a tank, as I'm in north dakota right now). They cost me $9.53 each from a USA based vendor, so the price is quite reasonable. The emitters themselves are superb quality. They're rated for 1380 lumens at 18w, but can be driven as high as 29w (no lumen data provided for that, probably like 2000?). 

Biggest problem with them is the driving voltage of 38.2v, but that is no problem for an ELN60-48.


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## sendthis

I'm kind of surprised no one has tested these out yet. I would do it if I had the equipment.

hehe, I guess most people that have the equipment to test these out might also be the same people who are willing to spend the money on brand name LEDs  

I'm not really into planted aquariums, but the reason I looked into LEDs was so I could build an algae turf scrubber and/or have supplemental lighting (I have a t5 on a 20G that's having a hard time even growing moss so I was hoping modifying it to use two of these) for my shrimp tank.


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## hcker2000

I'm glad I ran across this post. I have been looking at a 50 Watt LED for my 29 gallon tank and after seeing this I think that might be a bit extreme for that size of tank. The worst part is that two 10 Watts are almost as expensive as the single 50 Watt.


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## Naekuh

Chlorophile said:


> And so does your algae!


doe.. yeah cuz i was going too much light..

at one point this entire fixture was over that tiny 10gallon..









i got greedy in a bad way... and bam... paid for it hardcore.

im only running 2 x 10W on it now... not so much algae problems, however i have green dust algae that broke out.... and i need to do the 3 week wait time to kill it...


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## sendthis

hcker2000 said:


> I'm glad I ran across this post. I have been looking at a 50 Watt LED for my 29 gallon tank and after seeing this I think that might be a bit extreme for that size of tank. The worst part is that two 10 Watts are almost as expensive as the single 50 Watt.


If you restrict your eBay search, you can find 10W LEDs for less than $5. I bought four of them for $20 (shipped).

Also, I was looking through some specs, and I think it might make more sense (for me at least) to get the BridgeLux. The test power on some of them are at 7W (which is where I want to run them) and the cost per LED is the same EXCEPT the spec/datasheet is available and you can drive some of them with currents to bring them reliably to a higher current.

Oh, and instead of buying from China and waiting 3-4 weeks, you can get them from an online electronics store within a week.


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## hcker2000

You would think some one would be importing the 10 Watts and selling/shipping them from in the USA. I have not heard much about the bridgelux's got any seller links here in the USA?


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## RandomMan

For someone who is new at this, mind if I ask some stupid questions?

Is this what one would need to buy to get this working:
- LED
- Driver
- Heat sync (required?)

Then you just solder the LED to the driver wires, and run the AC into your nearest wall receptacle? Anything else required?

If doing multiple LED's, instead of running 1 x 10W driver per LED, could you just wire them in series (or parallel) and run them back to a single larger driver. So, say 2 10w LED's to 1 20W driver?


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## hcker2000

That is correct just pay attention to the driver.

In my case I want to run three 10 watt leds off a single driver. Each led is rated at 10-11v so three in series would be 30-33v. So I need a 30watt driver that outputs 30-33v.

Heatsinks of some sort are required. Keep in mind the cooler you keep them the longer they last.


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## RandomMan

Thanks so much.


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## Naekuh

RandomMan said:


> For someone who is new at this, mind if I ask some stupid questions?
> 
> Is this what one would need to buy to get this working:
> - LED
> - Driver
> - Heat sync (required?)
> 
> Then you just solder the LED to the driver wires, and run the AC into your nearest wall receptacle? Anything else required?
> 
> If doing multiple LED's, instead of running 1 x 10W driver per LED, could you just wire them in series (or parallel) and run them back to a single larger driver. So, say 2 10w LED's to 1 20W driver?


depends on the driver...

if its a constant current driver, you wire them up in a series.
if its a constant voltage driver, you wire them up in paralell. 

Constant current will tend to have a variable voltage which changes on fly but holds current constant.

Constant voltage psu's, the good regulated ones will hold voltage steady, but can change current on the fly... nature of led's


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## sendthis

hcker2000 said:


> You would think some one would be importing the 10 Watts and selling/shipping them from in the USA. I have not heard much about the bridgelux's got any seller links here in the USA?


On eBay, there is one guy selling them for about $10.

You can get the Bridgelux at Digikey.com



Naekuh said:


> if its a constant current driver, you wire them up in a series.
> 
> if its a constant voltage driver, you wire them up in paralell.


Just remember though, even with LEDs from the same manufacturer with the same exact specs aren't PEFERCTLY matched. If it's a constant voltage driver and you wire in parallel, each branch can still have different currents. So there's a chance that if you're running 2A through the entire setup and you need 1A to each branch, that it's possible that 1A++ can go through one branch and the rest goes to the other. So one might be slightly overdriven and one slightly underdriven. This probably won't be an issue, but with operational stresses and temperature changes, it could effect it. 

Running a series resistor PER branch helps.

The plus side to running them in parallel though is that if one branch breaks, it doesn't kill your entire light.

I'm currently going to run two 10W LEDs in series for my 10G setup, but when I build my 75G setup, I am going to run my white and reds off two different drivers. Each set will use constant current mirrors (basically, it maintains the same current in each LED given a reference - so I can set it for 500 mA and they'll ALL have 500 mA going through them).


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## Naekuh

sendthis said:


> Just remember though, even with LEDs from the same manufacturer with the same exact specs aren't PEFERCTLY matched. If it's a constant voltage driver and you wire in parallel, each branch can still have different currents. So there's a chance that if you're running 2A through the entire setup and you need 1A to each branch, that it's possible that 1A++ can go through one branch and the rest goes to the other. So one might be slightly overdriven and one slightly underdriven. This probably won't be an issue, but with operational stresses and temperature changes, it could effect it. .


sorry but this doesn't apply with DC and constant voltage.

DC circuits only draw the amps it requires *if you match voltage*.

Saying u cant tie up 1 parallel 3V LED with a 12V led, unless u serial 4x3V = 12V.
You need to keep the voltage on each parallel array the same... 

If you have 2 different arrays strung up in parallel.. one array draws 3A... and the other draws 2A... the psu will output a total of 5A, where 3A will go to the 3A portion and 2A will goto the 2A portion.
Again this is looking at constant Voltage. 

constant current doesnt work like that, because of the nature of LED's themselves.... LED's can variate Voltage yet the driver forces constant current though them.

Hence why Constant current does run a tad bit cooler then constant voltage.


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## sendthis

Naekuh said:


> sorry but this doesn't apply with DC and constant voltage.
> 
> DC circuits only draw the amps it requires *if you match voltage*.
> 
> Saying u cant tie up 1 parallel 3V LED with a 12V led, unless u serial 4x3V = 12V.
> You need to keep the voltage on each parallel array the same...
> 
> If you have 2 different arrays strung up in parallel.. one array draws 3A... and the other draws 2A... the psu will output a total of 5A, where 3A will go to the 3A portion and 2A will goto the 2A portion.
> Again this is looking at constant Voltage.
> 
> constant current doesnt work like that, because of the nature of LED's themselves.... LED's can variate Voltage yet the driver forces constant current though them.
> 
> Hence why Constant current does run a tad bit cooler then constant voltage.


I'm about to go to bed... but I wanted to answer this real quick and I'll come back to it just in case I'm misunderstanding what you're saying...

The reason you want to limit the current even with a regulated DC voltage source is because as your device heats up, it causes a shift in the nominal foward voltage. So while you maintain the voltage, there is a disproportionate shift in the current. So nominally, at 25C, a Vf=3.5V may have 350mA, as it heats up it will begin to draw more current without changing Vf. As it pulls more current, it'll generate more heat, until finally it reaches breakdown (device failure).

The key here is that diodes are current driven devices. If you take a look at the ideal diode equation, you will notice there is a thermal voltage term. This parameter is in the exponential --- small variation can lead to large current change.

So, why would one be overdriven and one underdriven?

In the above situation, let's say you have a 10W 10V regulated constant voltage source. That means it can supply 1A and let's say it is a limited power supply / driver.

Let's say your LED devices operate at 10V, but needs 500 mA.

In the above situation, if one of your devices is slightly mismatched (via manufacturing or operation), it's possible that one will be driven with a larger current, exceeding the value for your driver is designed to handle as well as your device. 

But this goes back to parallel being safer b/c only one branch breaks.

On the flip side, a constant current source running through a series of LEDs is 'safer' because it will never allow more current (when well deisgned) than the diodes can handle. The problem with this is that your LED in the string may break for other reasons and you have to replace it or bypass it to get the other LEDs to work. This is probably less likely than the above situation, but still possible.

Hopefully I answered that and it was coherent, but I'll come back to it tomorrow when I'm more awake.


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## sendthis

Oh, I should add that functionally a constant voltage source is just a constant current source with a resistor in parallel. Also, functionally, a constant current source is just a constant voltage source with a resistor in series.

So basically, by putting a resistor in series with a constant voltage power supply and the LED, you're basically converting your source into constant current. 

The reason you need to put a resistor in each branch is that since your LEDs drop a different forward voltage, your resistor takes up the slack and maintains the ideal current in each respective branch. If you only put one resistor in series before the LEDs, then you're going to limit the total current but not control the current in each loop.

Ideally, even if you had tightly binned LEDs, their characteristics will vary over time. Also, I believe manufacturers bin their devices with current and not voltage (as LEDs are current driven devices).


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## sendthis

Naekuh said:


> If you have 2 different arrays strung up in parallel.. one array draws 3A... and the other draws 2A... the psu will output a total of 5A, where 3A will go to the 3A portion and 2A will goto the 2A portion.
> Again this is looking at constant Voltage.


Okay, now that I'm awake and full of coffee... 

That's correct. The problem is (as mentioned in previous post) is that the branch that the circuit WILL maintain voltage IRRESPECTIVE of current. So when your device heats up, it's possible that it will start to draw more current. So one loop will put 2A and the other will put 7A and then your PS is supplying 9A assuming that your device can handle the additional 4A. Since this works as a feedback system (device gets hot, pulls more current, gets hotter, pulls more current.. etc) then you will overdrive the device. It may not be immediately noticeable but it will eventually happen especially if you run them for the durations required for planted aquariums. 

The problem with a slight mismatch in LEDs is that even with a constant voltage, even without thermal runaway is that it will drive the devices with different currents to maintain that voltage. One will always see more current while the other will see a different current. So in the case of slight mismatch, you will always have one either overdriven or underdriven if not both in any combination of those states. It's highly unlikely they will ever be perfectly matched. Even if they are, you run back into the thermal voltage issue.

Note: Don't take numbers literally. As the operating characteristics are just for illustration and actual performance specifications will vary between manufacturers and products. The numbers were just pulled out of my "hat" to show what -could- happen.

Assuming you're lucky and with perfectly matched LEDs in the full range of operational environments, then it's just poor design. It may work in one case, but fail when you reproduce it in another case. If it works now, it may shorten the lifetime and not work later. As far as I know, it's pretty difficult to predict long-term operation and most manufacturers do not know. Current devices haven't been in the market long and they're soon to be replaced by other devices with different material technologies in the years to come. 

I've bought a few LED bulbs from different manufacturers. After they burn out and I take them apart to look at them, they were obviously poorly designed. With the chinese bulbs, one of the problems is putting the devices in parallel and not limiting the devices. My guess, especially for eBay purchases is that the vendor is gambling that the product lasts long enough to get a positive rating. If it dies in a week or more, as long as they have positive feedback, they don't care any more. 

I'm highly hesitant to buy any new bulbs on eBay any more but I'm more adventurous in working with individual components (since I believe most are made in Asia anyway). The reason for failure is less with the quality of the components, but in the cost-saving reductions in proper design.

In any event, even if you disagree and think that it's safe to run each "string" of LEDs without a resistor, isn't it worth the $0.50 per branch to improve reliability of your fixture? In fact, buying the resistors off... eBay, you will probably pay much less per resistor anyway.


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## hcker2000

It really seems the way to go with these are to run them off a current regulated power. I think now rather than using one 30 watt current regulated power supply I will use three 10 watt regulated power supplies as the cost difference is about $5 and its worth $5 to over come the issue with running LEDs in a series.


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## Jasonchen

Looks great. I would like to try it!


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## Naekuh

hcker2000 said:


> It really seems the way to go with these are to run them off a current regulated power. I think now rather than using one 30 watt current regulated power supply I will use three 10 watt regulated power supplies as the cost difference is about $5 and its worth $5 to over come the issue with running LEDs in a series.


no.... if ur gonna run 3, use a meanwell 9-48V constant current and serial 3 of them together for 3 x 12V for a total of 36V, and have the meanwell set the current at 900mA. 

U dont need to run 3 different drivers for up to 4 LED's on that single driver.


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## dirrtybirdy

this is a pretty interesting thread!

I was just about to pull the gun on a diy Cree set up for my 20g and now I'm starting to reconsider. Im a complete noob when it comes to LEDs, any lighting for that matter lol. 

Since this route is cost pretty much nothing, I want to try this out for a bit to see if it works. 

what do you guys think of this? 

http://www. ebay .com /itm/10W-White-High-Power-1000Lm-LED-Lamp-Waterproof-driver-/220908727356?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336f2fac3c (remove the spaces)

Is it possible to add a dimmer to this set up? would I need more light for a 20g? Sorry for all the questions, really trying to learn more about LEDs =D


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## hcker2000

Naekuh said:


> no.... if ur gonna run 3, use a meanwell 9-48V constant current and serial 3 of them together for 3 x 12V for a total of 36V, and have the meanwell set the current at 900mA.
> 
> U dont need to run 3 different drivers for up to 4 LED's on that single driver.


I went with three drivers as thats going to give me the most flexibility and I'm guessing the three drivers I purchased don't cost any where close to meanwell.

With the 3 drivers I'm free to turn each led on and off. I can still dim them all if I wish granted it will be more of a pain in the butt.

The best part is if one of my leds go out I dont have to worry about the others going off as there not in series.


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## boxhead1990

im pretty keen to do a similar set up over my 120 but more of a low tech set up 

i would like to use 2x or 3x of the 20w led's the less leds the better ( i dont plan on using optics and this is for my discus tank) im basically chasing a second opinion as i think 2 or 3 should work really well im gunna give a single 50 watt chinese led a go over my 60g cube which is going to be more a high tech set up( im collecting bits and pices for this set up atm)

but i have been doing a bit of research and so far i think im going to be pretty spot on maybe using 10 wat emiters would create a better spread and i could always add a random red and blue in there somewhere oh and my 120 is 4x2x2feet if tht helps????






Sent from my iPhone


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## hcker2000

The viewing angle on the square leds are about 160 degrees which is wide. The only 20watt+ leds I have seen are the square ones.

I'm sure some one is going to bring up PAR after I mention this but my guess for your 120 gallon tank would be six 20watt leds. 

I think that would be the most flexible way to get good coverage. Also seeing as how the tank is 2 feet deep to get good penetration to the bottom you might need a reflector.

See these links.

Reflector one
Reflector two

Also for any one else who comes to this thread here are the parts I ordered for my 29 gallon.

3 X 10 Watt Led
3 X 10 Watt Driver


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## tentacles

Over discus you might consider the Citizen 5000k LEDs; they are astonishingly cheap, and are 85 CRI. I paid $9.53 ea for the 30w version. There's a 60 watt model for $16 (80 CRI / 5000k) and these came from a US supplier. Reflectors (60 deg) cost me $1.50 ea. I can give you part numbers if you're interested.


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## hcker2000

tentacles said:


> Over discus you might consider the Citizen 5000k LEDs; they are astonishingly cheap, and are 85 CRI. I paid $9.53 ea for the 30w version. There's a 60 watt model for $16 (80 CRI / 5000k) and these came from a US supplier. Reflectors (60 deg) cost me $1.50 ea. I can give you part numbers if you're interested.


If you have links for those leds I would love to check them out as ordering from over sea's is slow.


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## tentacles

Sure do - http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store...=500201&langId=-1&storeId=500201&listIndex=-1

The reflector is "tyra3-ww" (just search it on that site).

The 60w emitter is "CLL030-1212A1-503M1A2" (it says 40w but that is nominal). If you search for "CLL030" it will show all the varieties. There's also a CLL-040 (the 96w is $26) series but the reflectors are hard to find and ledil doesn't make a 60 deg or wider version.


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## hcker2000

Interesting I don't see any higher than 5k color temp though.


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## boxhead1990

hhhmmm 6 20watts on a low tech sounds like alot for more spread i would use 10w emmiters

i started a thread on simply discus and there all a bit discouraging on there haha oh well il be the one laughing when iv only spent half compered to them 

cheers for the imput for the 120 il probably try 4 to begin with i think i can always add more later and i have meterial for a reflector already if i need it 


Sent from my iPhone


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## VW_Factor

[email protected] said:


> AC goes to the two wires of the same color, on the left. The tilde indicates AC.
> The wires on the right side are + and -.
> Those go to the + side of the LED and the - side of the LED.
> We're fortunate that the wire color is actually correct.
> 
> Of course, I've had prior experience guessing.
> I got a bag of drivers with pink, brown, and white leads once. That was interesting.


Going on the labelling for that "driver".

Its a 12v DC power supply. There isn't anything special about them and its hardly "a driver".


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## Adkins.its

OK so I got my 10 watt constant current driver and 10 watt led in the mail today! Just to clarify....I run the + and - led to the red and black of the driver. Then wire the other end of the driver to, say a standard cheapo extension cord?


----------



## Profector

I'm using 5 of these 1000ma 10-12v LED's, in parallel, with a constant voltage power source, and heatsinks. These are amazingly bright. Do you know what temp they need to be kept at to prevent thermal runaway? Right now I'm using PWM @ about 80% and huge heat sinks because I'm worried about the heat.


----------



## Profector

Adkins.its said:


> OK so I got my 10 watt constant current driver and 10 watt led in the mail today! Just to clarify....I run the + and - led to the red and black of the driver. Then wire the other end of the driver to, say a standard cheapo extension cord?


 
Usually black is ground/negative and hot is positive/hot, that runs to the LED. Depending on the driver you might be able to wire with and old PC cable or extention cord and plug it into the wall. But I've send a few that need something between the wall and driver for the AC-DC conversion. Do you have link for the driver specs?


----------



## Adkins.its

Profector said:


> Usually black is ground/negative and hot is positive/hot, that runs to the LED. Depending on the driver you might be able to wire with and old PC cable or extention cord and plug it into the wall. But I've send a few that need something between the wall and driver for the AC-DC conversion. Do you have link for the driver specs?


Yes! - http://www.dealextreme.com/p/330ma-10w-led-constant-current-source-power-supply-driver-90-265v-81781
The bad part is last night I realized I ordered the wrong driver for this led. - http://www.dealextreme.com/p/10w-850lm-led-emitter-metal-plate-10-11v-80022

Noob mistake I guess lol. So I ordered the correct one off of fleabay after I figured that out. I'd link the new one but I know I can't.


----------



## Adkins.its

Hear is the picture of the one I just ordered.


----------



## hcker2000

On the one you just ordered the black is ground for led and the red is positive for the led.

The two blue are labeled N and L which I would say is Neutral and Live. If the AC wire your going to use is color coded I would say black AC would go to L and white AC would go to N.


----------



## hcker2000

They tried to deliver my leds and drivers today but I missed the delivery so I should have mine tomorrow and can start getting them setup. I'm hoping that I will be able to just use a piece of square aluminum tube to mount them on for a heat sink.

If not I will scrounge up some old CPU heat sinks.


----------



## Adkins.its

hcker2000 said:


> On the one you just ordered the black is ground for led and the red is positive for the led.
> 
> The two blue are labeled N and L which I would say is Neutral and Live. If the AC wire your going to use is color coded I would say black AC would go to L and white AC would go to N.


Thanks a lot!



hcker2000 said:


> They tried to deliver my leds and drivers today but I missed the delivery so I should have mine tomorrow and can start getting them setup. I'm hoping that I will be able to just use a piece of square aluminum tube to mount them on for a heat sink.
> 
> If not I will scrounge up some old CPU heat sinks.


Make sure you get a few pictures up afterward. I should get my new driver between March 21 and April 4. I gotta scrounge up a little heat sink and make I nice little housing for it all. I may even through in a cpu fan for good measure.


----------



## jingleberry

Been looking for some cheap lighting for my 12 gallon long. Thinking about using 2 of these 10w LEDs hanging from a shelf or my ceiling. Anyone know of a place that sells rounded aluminum heatsinks like these?

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/443911484/Aluminum_round_heat_sink_led.html

Or maybe some other type of rounded heatsink/housing that wont be too much of an eyesore to look at?

Thanks.


----------



## Secretninja

Here is A place to get heatsinks, don't know if it is the best.

http://www.satisled.com/Wholesale-round-led-heatsink_c126

Definitely looking forward to some more pics as people get these in. I was contemplating buying a 50 pack of 1 or 3 watt leds from that site, but I might end up just doing 2 of these 10 watt guys on my 29. I will probably butcher a cpu heatsink if I end up doing this, I have a few lying around as I never use stock intel/amd heatsinks, nor does anyone I know.


----------



## hcker2000

Adkins.its said:


> Thanks a lot!
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you get a few pictures up afterward. I should get my new driver between March 21 and April 4. I gotta scrounge up a little heat sink and make I nice little housing for it all. I may even through in a cpu fan for good measure.


For sure I should have them tomorrow as I just rescheduled the usps delivery.

It seems like it would be very cool to use the leds as both light and a heat source for the tank. It looks like aluminum is not a good option for aquariums from what I just read. Stainless steel or titanium would be the best bets but those are both expensive.

I do know to never use coper or brass for a fish tank.


----------



## hcker2000

I have confirmed that the package has arrived at my house so I will have some pictures of the raw components tomorrow for you all. Saturday I will start assembly and instillation into my tank hood.


----------



## Adkins.its

Looking forward to it!


----------



## hcker2000

Well here are the pictures of the led and driver. Drivers are way smaller than I figured and the led heats up faster than I figured.


----------



## Adkins.its

What are the specs of that led? The think I like about the one I ordered you can use terminal connectors for the + and -. Soldering isn't a big deal but I thought it would be nice for this since I'm gonna play around with it a bit.

Edit: I guess looking at mine you could easily trim it down to fit. What a dumby, I am!


----------



## hcker2000

Here are some pictures of the final build. Three 10 watt leds provides more light than the three 24" florecent fixtures I used to use. Color tempature is perfect in my opinion at least as far as looks are concerned. The only issue is the aluminum bar heats up so hot it will burn me. So I need to find a better heat sink. As you can see my tank needs some cleanup.


----------



## Adkins.its

Well I'm thinking using a CPU heat sink with a fan for my single 10W, may not be crazy overkill!


----------



## hcker2000

It will keep it cool thats for sure. I'm thinking I may cut an old heat sink in three pieces and attach those to the aluminum bar for more surface are. Would be nice to keep it passive.


----------



## Adkins.its

hcker2000 said:


> It will keep it cool thats for sure. I'm thinking I may cut an old heat sink in three pieces and attach those to the aluminum bar for more surface are. Would be nice to keep it passive.


What size tank is that by the way? Unless you said it and I missed it.


----------



## Adkins.its

Just ordered one of these to try out!


----------



## speerwashere

hcker2000 said:


> Here are some pictures of the final build. Three 10 watt leds provides more light than the three 24" florecent fixtures I used to use. Color tempature is perfect in my opinion at least as far as looks are concerned. The only issue is the aluminum bar heats up so hot it will burn me. So I need to find a better heat sink. As you can see my tank needs some cleanup.


 Need to cut some fins in it, my brother has a small machine shop and he uses a circular saw to cut his aluminum stock. Just put a guide down to get a straight cut and cut as many cuts as you can get leaving fins length wise about halfway+- thru and it will cool quicker, just go sort of slow.


----------



## hcker2000

29 Gallon tank.

I'm a bit skeptical if cutting would help but it would give more surface area. So your saying to cut half way threw the square bar? I mean at this point I have nothing to lose from cutting it.

If that fails I will probably try a 60mm computer fan just blowing in the the LEDs general direction but it would be great to get it to be passive.


----------



## speerwashere

Ya more surface with less metal will draw the heat and cool it quicker The more fins the better but leave alittle meat on them and with a fan on the fins it will cool even quicker. Just cut a little ways then give the saw and blade a break, you don't want to burn either up. Might still get hot but if you get burnt it will be less of an area LOL. I think he uses a carbide tipped blade but I'll check with him aroud 4pm and let you known for sure.


----------



## speerwashere

Got ahold of my bro and he uses a carbide tipped blade, he also said "aluminum is gummy so you have to use transmission oil to help cut it... messy"


----------



## Naekuh

Adkins.its said:


> Soldering isn't a big deal but I thought it would be nice for this since I'm gonna play around with it a bit.


u dont need to solder the square ones.

just get electrical quick connects like these guys and push them in after u crimp the wire:









The circles have a larger square pad... so u may need to trim it a bit if u want to use quick connects.


----------



## Adkins.its

Naekuh said:


> u dont need to solder the square ones.
> 
> just get electrical quick connects like these guys and push them in after u crimp the wire:
> 
> The circles have a larger square pad... so u may need to trim it a bit if u want to use quick connects.


Thanks for the info! 

A side note would there be any way to run my little 12v .09A fan off of my driver?


----------



## hcker2000

Is your driver some where between 10 and 12 volt if so it should have no issue driving the led and the fan.

I think I should have been more specific in that that bar I got is not solid but is hollow which is why I was confused about the cutting fins into it. I'm not sure hollow fins would help much then again it might help as it still allowing air to get into the center of the bar and adding surface area.


----------



## hcker2000

Naekuh said:


> u dont need to solder the square ones.
> 
> just get electrical quick connects like these guys and push them in after u crimp the wire:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The circles have a larger square pad... so u may need to trim it a bit if u want to use quick connects.


Did you have to snip the connector material on the LED to get the quick connects to fit?

I soldered mine.


----------



## Naekuh

hcker2000 said:


> Did you have to snip the connector material on the LED to get the quick connects to fit?
> 
> I soldered mine.


The circle ones yes.. the square no...













Adkins.its said:


> A side note would there be any way to run my little 12v .09A fan off of my driver?


not without a resistor...
Because a constant current driver does just that.. supplies constant current, and most likely you will burn out the DC motor from pushing 900mA on a 90mA motor.



hcker2000 said:


> Is your driver some where between 10 and 12 volt if so it should have no issue driving the led and the fan.


Are you positive? 
Because constant current is not constant voltage.
Constant voltage has variable current, but voltage stays current. 
Constant Current has variable Voltage, but keeps current constant.


----------



## Adkins.its

hcker2000 said:


> Is your driver some where between 10 and 12 volt if so it should have no issue driving the led and the fan.


Thanks! I indeed do have a 12v. Awesome news really. I was afriad I would need another supply.


----------



## Naekuh

Adkins.its said:


> Thanks! I indeed do have a 12v. Awesome news really. I was afriad I would need another supply.


i would wait for a second opinion b4 trying it.

Constant current drivers are not constant voltage drivers. 
If it was a constant voltage, id say yes, your safe and go for it, as the current is variable, and voltage is held constant.

But on a constant current driver, its the other way around.
Current is held constant, while the voltage is variable.


----------



## Adkins.its

Naekuh said:


> i would wait for a second opinion b4 trying it.
> 
> Constant current drivers are not constant voltage drivers.
> If it was a constant voltage, id say yes, your safe and go for it, as the current is variable, and voltage is held constant.
> 
> But on a constant current driver, its the other way around.
> Current is held constant, while the voltage is variable.


Well I'm glad I posted that then. Thank you for the note of caution. I'll wait for another opinion. In the mean time, I will try and sort it out on my own.


----------



## speerwashere

hcker2000 said:


> Is your driver some where between 10 and 12 volt if so it should have no issue driving the led and the fan.
> 
> I think I should have been more specific in that that bar I got is not solid but is hollow which is why I was confused about the cutting fins into it. I'm not sure hollow fins would help much then again it might help as it still allowing air to get into the center of the bar and adding surface area.


 Oh I thought it was solid, so not really no way of cutting fins in it sorry. If I go LED which I may I can have my brother cut some 1 foot peices up and CNC out the fins, but for my 55g I'll have to have him make them so I can attach them together.


----------



## hcker2000

Good point on the constant current I'm so used to working with constant voltage. I would say its worth a shot if you hook it up and it revs up like crazy or gets warm you know its a no go.


----------



## hcker2000

Well I went ahead and order a heat sink from heatsinkusa.com

$21 for the 31 inches of 1.8 inch wide heat sink
$5 handling fee 
$8 shipping

Considering its almost an inch wider than what I'm using and is much thicker I think this should do it.

Still not bad for the total of the project.

$31 for 3 leds and 3 drivers
$34 for heat sink

I did forget to mention that even with 3 of these leds I'm getting some pearling on the substrate. Its not like a pool in bright sunlight but its there.


----------



## DanCottle

Im setting up a 40 breeder tank soon. I'm looking to have relatively low light but also would like to have the shimmer from the small light source. I was thinking about using 2 of these 10w leds. Would that be enough light- to have low light?


----------



## Naekuh

DanCottle said:


> Im setting up a 40 breeder tank soon. I'm looking to have relatively low light but also would like to have the shimmer from the small light source. I was thinking about using 2 of these 10w leds. Would that be enough light- to have low light?


Yes but your light spread wont look pretty.

id say go at least 3 for a more even distribution of light.


----------



## hcker2000

New heatsink has arrived and is substantial to say the least. I would say three to five pounds of aluminum.

I'm going to cut it down to size tonight and mount the LEDs.


----------



## Adkins.its

hcker2000 said:


> New heatsink has arrived and is substantial to say the least. I would say three to five pounds of aluminum.
> 
> I'm going to cut it down to size tonight and mount the LEDs.


Nice! Please post pictures. Still waiting on mine to show up.

On a side note - I still need to do some learnin' on resistors so I can hook up the fan for my heatsink to the driver power.


----------



## hcker2000

If you have a heatsink like this I don't think your going to need a fan. I ordered 32 inches and will need to cut it down a bit.


----------



## Adkins.its

Im using this guy. its about 2"x2"x.5"


----------



## hcker2000

If it works let me know as thats much cheaper than the method I went for. Just keep on eye on it as the fans have tendency to burn out after a year or two. At least the ones on all my video cards have.


----------



## jingleberry

Anyone know approximately how high I should place these LEDs for a tank that's about 9-10" high if I'm aiming for medium/high lighting. Planning on mounting a shelf on the wall for these and I would rather not drill more holes than necessary.


----------



## hcker2000

Mine are mounted about 2 1/2 inches from the top of my 29 gallon tank. This puts them 12 inches off the substrate. It will also depend on how many you are running as there will be overlap where one led lights the same area as another led.

I would personally shoot for 12 inches from substrate.


----------



## Adkins.its

hcker2000 said:


> If it works let me know as thats much cheaper than the method I went for. Just keep on eye on it as the fans have tendency to burn out after a year or two. At least the ones on all my video cards have.


I will keep you posted. I'm hoping to under power it just a bit. If that won't ruin it. Even if the fan burns up, I would almost think it would be good enough without it. Maybe lol. I got if off eBay for $5 shipped so its a pretty decent deal.


----------



## hcker2000

I don't think that will be enough metal to passively cool it if the fan were to fail. These LEDs get hotter than I figured they would. I have no idea how people are cooling the 100 watt versions that some places sell.

I see no reason you cant under power the fan a bit. You just have to make sure it gets enough power to start up. Thats why a lot of pc's will start with there fans on high and then they drop back down to a slower speed. I would think if you ran it at 9v-10v rather than 12v it would start just fine.

I'm thinking I may mount the led drivers with rubber bands to the heat sink. I have a splash guard so if it falls of it should not hurt any thing.


----------



## speerwashere

I ran 12v puter fans on 6v all summer last year without a problem. Tried 12v but they were alittle loud so I dropped the voltage and it quited them down.


----------



## Adkins.its

speerwashere said:


> I ran 12v puter fans on 6v all summer last year without a problem. Tried 12v but they were alittle loud so I dropped the voltage and it quited them down.


Did you use a separate power supply for your fans or did you run them of your drivers and regulate them some how?


----------



## speerwashere

I used a different power source


----------



## hcker2000

Easiest thing would be to just grab an old cell phone charger most of them are between 5v and 12v.


----------



## speerwashere

hcker2000 said:


> Easiest thing would be to just grab an old cell phone charger most of them are between 5v and 12v.


 Or a transformer from like and old cordless phone or something similar. Thats what I have running my led strip lights and fans on my 55g, on my 29g I have a Wii power suppy.


----------



## Adkins.its

hcker2000 said:


> Easiest thing would be to just grab an old cell phone charger most of them are between 5v and 12v.










speerwashere said:


> Or a transformer from like and old cordless phone or something similar. Thats what I have running my led strip lights and fans on my 55g, on my 29g I have a Wii power suppy.


I know....I'm just trying to use the smallest amount off components. Keep it as clean as I can ya know.


----------



## speerwashere

Ya I see your point there


----------



## kern

wow those are bright!


----------



## jingleberry

hcker2000 said:


> Mine are mounted about 2 1/2 inches from the top of my 29 gallon tank. This puts them 12 inches off the substrate. It will also depend on how many you are running as there will be overlap where one led lights the same area as another led.
> 
> I would personally shoot for 12 inches from substrate.


Hmm, 12 inches. I was thinking that might be too low. These things are so bright. These will cover 36" in length, I'm planning on using 2 but will upgrade to 3 if it's not enough. Currently trying to figure out a way to hang these without putting holes into the wall to test how high I should place these. 

Are you sure yours are 12 inches from substrate? A typical 29 gallon tank is about 18" in height, add 2.5 inches to that and it'll be 20.5 inches, subtract 12 inches for the distance between light and substrate and that would mean you have about 9" of substrate.


----------



## hcker2000

First a video of the light in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDCdPPm1M1s&feature=youtube_gdata_player

As for height I think your correct in it being 18 inches tall. I have 2 inches of substrate and the light is 2 inches from the top edge of the tank. So 18 inches from the substrait.

Also even with the massive heatsink I ordered it still heats it up hot enough I cant hold on to it more than 4 seconds. Its an improvment over the old bar I used to use. At some point I will get an actual temp reading.


----------



## Adkins.its

Looks real good man! Had a question. How warm does the driver get once its on for a while?


----------



## Adkins.its

New heatsink.


----------



## Copernicus

How are you planning to mount those heat sinks, Adkins?


----------



## Adkins.its

Copernicus said:


> How are you planning to mount those heat sinks, Adkins?


You mean, as in to suspended them over the tank?


----------



## Copernicus

Yeah, I ordered my 10 watts and am trying to figure out how to do the setup over my tank


----------



## jingleberry

Is it possible to dim these? That would save me all the hassle of testing how high I would need these.


----------



## Adkins.its

Copernicus said:


> Yeah, I ordered my 10 watts and am trying to figure out how to do the setup over my tank


Well I'm probably going to laser cuts some mounts out of .080ish aluminum. Maybe make an upper piece to mount the heatsink and a lower to attach the to the tank rim/base surface. Put 2 slots the upper with a set of screws in the lower piece. Give 6" of up/down travel. Possibly 3 piece to get front to back travel as well.

I can post pictures when I draw it up on the computer if you guys would like. Should be fairly simple. I want a nice clean look.

I'm still debating making a mini shroud to house the it all. Could cut down on stray light.






jingleberry said:


> Is it possible to dim these? That would save me all the hassle of testing how high I would need these.


If you found a dim capable driver, yes it would be possible.


----------



## ugn

Has anybody used these 10 watt'ers long enough to get an opinion about how good these are for plant growing?


----------



## hcker2000

Adkins.its said:


> Looks real good man! Had a question. How warm does the driver get once its on for a while?


The drivers really don't get hot at all. Maybe slightly warm to the touch. I'm very interested to see if those little heat sink / fans are enough to cool them.


----------



## Adkins.its

Ok cool. I thought about getting a project box for the driver and the power supply for my fan...if I don't run it off of the driver. 

I drilled and tapped the heatsink for the led to day. Still waiting on the driver to get here in the mail.


----------



## Naekuh

ugn said:


> Has anybody used these 10 watt'ers long enough to get an opinion about how good these are for plant growing?


mandatory co2 injection or your asking for algae.


meaning there not meant for low tech setups...

with Good Co2 injection, they rock... they even make anubis grow like wildfire, and HC's go crazy off it.



hcker2000 said:


> The drivers really don't get hot at all. Maybe slightly warm to the touch. I'm very interested to see if those little heat sink / fans are enough to cool them.


active heat sinks are much better then passive ones.
You need roughly 3x the material if not more to match an active heat sink vs passive. 

So yes those chipset heat sinks are raited for somewhere between 15-30W. 
Which means it will keep a 10W LED in check. 

As you go higher like 20W and 50W it wont.. and you'll probably need a CPU heat sink which are raited at 65W and higher with an active fan.


----------



## Adkins.its

Driver is finally here! Just need to find a 12v supply for the fan. Preferably one sitting around the house somewhere lol.


----------



## hcker2000

Sweet get it powered up. If those little heat sinks work I will be using them for my future projects as $31 for a heat sink really adds to the cost of the project.


----------



## Copernicus

Did you find a power supply for your fan, Adkins? My driver should be here tomorrow, but the LED's are coming from China and will be here some time between April 7th and April 23rd :-/


----------



## Adkins.its

I have not yet but hopefully ill get it all this weekend. Super busy with work and physical therapy lol.


----------



## wintu

> New heatsink.


where did you get these ?


----------



## Adkins.its

EBay my friend. I could probably post the auction ID.


----------



## hcker2000

All work and no LEDs make life less fun.


----------



## jingleberry

hcker2000 said:


> All work and no LEDs make life less fun.


Got any pictures of the new set up? :icon_smil


----------



## Naekuh

wintu said:


> where did you get these ?


just google motherboard chipset cooler.

Gpu cooler would also do.

They are adaptations of chipset coolers.
The kind u typically find on PC motherboard chipsets cooling the NorthBridge.

However if u guys are going with a full blown array, i really recommend u get a larger sink like this.









it can take quite a bit of LED's... ive had a lot of combinations and up to 4x10 with a simple 120mm fan on top and have it kept in check. 

That array u see is 10x3 + 2 x 10 or a total of 50W and with a fan it doesnt get that warm.


----------



## Adkins.its

Look up seller: tubelight
Then search for heat sink 10w led


----------



## Adkins.its

hcker2000 said:


> All work and no LEDs make life less fun.


Yes...yes it does! Lol


----------



## wintu

> Look up seller: tubelight
> Then search for heat sink 10w led


found it


----------



## Adkins.its

Sweet!


----------



## wintu

also i started looking for some regular heatsink that would have some nice profile like half round or even hollow to run your wires and maybe placing a fan on the end. there is tons of them an alibaba but i would have to order whole cargo ship so anybody know where to get something like this in the US?


----------



## jingleberry

Check aliexpress.com, some items require a minimum purchase quantity tho.


----------



## hcker2000

At some point this weekend I think I'm going to try 60mm fan on my setup and see how much it helps. Still getting a bit warm for my liking but I know for sure should my fan go out my LEDs will survive.

I still think a water cooled bar is the way to go as these things generate way more heat than I thought they would and its sucks to waste the energy.


----------



## Adkins.its

Copernicus said:


> Did you find a power supply for your fan, Adkins? My driver should be here tomorrow, but the LED's are coming from China and will be here some time between April 7th and April 23rd :-/


Will any 12v power supply spin this fan as long as it puts out .09a? Does it only draw what it needs?


----------



## Copernicus

Yeah, the fan will pull the amps. You just need a driver with AT LEAST enough amps, more is ok, and probably better.


----------



## Copernicus

The meanwell dimmable driver came in last night, plus I picked up a heatsink from work. Now just waiting for LED's (hurry, hurry, hurry!!)

The heatsink is a little small, but I think it will be ok with a fan. It's also about 7"X12" so Im thinking of cutting it longwise to make a strip the will span the length of my 20gallon long. I'll post up some pics this weekend.


----------



## Copernicus

So here's the heatsink I got from work, it's a little small, so I will be using a fan for sure. What do you guys think, should I use it as is, and put the lights on the corners, or cut it longwise, and make a strip that will span the length of the tank?


----------



## Adkins.its

Pow!















A decent first attempt for a temporary fixture.


----------



## Adkins.its




----------



## hcker2000

How hot is it getting? The heat sink specifically


----------



## Adkins.its

After about 2 hours it was just barely even warm. The driver is definitely much warmer than the heatsink, as a comparison.


----------



## Copernicus

Looks good Adkins. Have you run the light without the fan to see how hot it gets?


----------



## Adkins.its

Thanks Copernicus! I have not run it without the fan but I will when I get a chance.


----------



## ugn

Is it possible to get a dimmable driver for the 10w?
Tried searching ebay for one but can't find any.. nor any drivers that can handle more than one led.


----------



## Copernicus

The meanwell ELN-60-12D is a 12v 50watt dimmable driver. It will power multiple 10 watt leds. But I wouldn't run 5 at full power


----------



## hcker2000

Adkins.its said:


> After about 2 hours it was just barely even warm. The driver is definitely much warmer than the heatsink, as a comparison.


Well then fans are for sure the way to go with these then. I'm going to go ahead and rig up a 60mm fan on mine to see how much it helps cool it.


----------



## Adkins.its

hcker2000 said:


> Well then fans are for sure the way to go with these then. I'm going to go ahead and rig up a 60mm fan on mine to see how much it helps cool it.


Yeah, it seems to make a rather noticeable difference.


----------



## jingleberry

I ended up getting 10w flood lights. For ~$16 each, it's cheaper for me since I could not find a decent looking housing for them. They just arrived today. No idea how hot these will get, I guess I'll find out sometime this week when I run them for 8 hours straight. Will probably set them up when I get home, too bad I'm still waiting for my tank to arrive.


----------



## hcker2000

I had looked at the 10watt flood lights at first and may consider buying one for my 10 gallon aquarium. Would need to mount it more like a pendant light rather than right close to the top of the water.


----------



## jingleberry

The flood lights run a lot hotter than I had imagined, the casing directly on top of the led is about 130F.


----------



## Copernicus

Got the LED's in the mail today. Now to put everything together...


----------



## jingleberry

Rigged an 80mm fan in front of the flood lights and they are running real cool. Going to pick up a few 60mm fans and try to rig it so it's less noticeable.


----------



## blackdog76

Hey it's me......the OP. The 4 10W LEDs are still going strong at full power. I need to move the outer ones in some and paint the fixture but working well without anything melting or overheating.

As far as the rest of the tank, I've having a hell of a time growing HC. I'm giving it one last shot with some carpet out of another members tank but so far my original HC slowly melted away. The roots don't like my eco complete substrate at all. The HC that becomes uprooted (which is about 90% of it) that gets caught in the christmas moss grows fine, but the second I anchor it down it struggles. 

I've been running pressurized Co2 during the day and tried dosing with some ferts but algae exploded so I stopped. Added a power head to help increase the flow in the tank and blow some co2 down to the front of the tank. With the addition of the new HC transplants I'm going to try to add a thin layer of a different substrate. I also just bought a bottle of flourish excel that I've been dosing it with (should've been doing that from the start) so we'll see what happens.


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## jingleberry

I think HC is just like that, takes a while for the roots to get established. Seems like most people use an emersed start with HC, giving it some time to establish root. Using mesh HC carpets should work better for you, there's no way for it to be uprooted now. How are you liking the LEDs? The area right above your tank and below the light fixture is blinding!


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## blackdog76

jingleberry said:


> I think HC is just like that, takes a while for the roots to get established. Seems like most people use an emersed start with HC, giving it some time to establish root. Using mesh HC carpets should work better for you, there's no way for it to be uprooted now. How are you liking the LEDs? The area right above your tank and below the light fixture is blinding!


It's just the crappy camera that I'm using. Never buy a Kodak EasyShare. The light looks nothing like that in real life and the colors are all screwed up.


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## Adkins.its




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## Copernicus

Lookin good Adkins.

Worked on my setup this weekend, still have a few things to do, but I'm really stoked on the results, so far. I went with the meanwell dimmable driver, so I still need to to figure out how to put about 5 - 7 volts across the dimming leads (they dim the lights based on the voltage) the end goal is to program a sunrise/sunset, but for now I'll just use a constant voltage on a timer. I also need to figure out how to make the whole setup a little more attractive, my girlfriend definitely will not dig the wires and bare fan. Here are some pics:

No plug on the driver, so I cut a computer cable and soldered it on:









Added these rails, so I can sit the lights on the glass top of my tank. They will also be able to hold a splash guard if I ever want to take the glass top off:

















Testing the wiring, before I start soldering. Used an AA battery across the dimming wires, to get it to turn on. Even at 1.5V on the dimmer these things are bright









The whole setup:









The LED's:









Bright! at 7.4V:









Before, 17W 24" T8:









After, 3 X 10W LED's at 7.4V on the dimmer (still need to do the math to see how many amps that is). Super stoked on the results:









Can't wait to get the setup dialed in so I can shelf the T8 and run these full time!!


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## hcker2000

Are you running the fan off the LED Driver? Also I'm seeing very good growth in my tank thanks to the 30 watts of led lighting.

I picked up some Wisteria last weekend and it has grown an inch and sent out roots. I have had it before and never had it send out roots. Also got some hair grass of some sort and a gold fish for my son as thats what he wanted in there.

So far every thing is doing super well.


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## Copernicus

Yeah, the fan is 12V so I am just running it from the LED driver. Good to hear that you are getting good results.


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## DanCottle

I got mine in I only got 2 of the 10ws just to test out. I have a driver for each one but I want to wire it with just one power cord. Could someone explain how to do this? I have no wiring knowledge whatsoever.


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## Copernicus

Which power supply do you have? Do the already have the AC plug or is it bare wires?


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## DanCottle

http://www.ebay .com/itm/Waterproof-10W-Driver-for-10W-High-Power-LED-Light-lamp-/220993730969?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337440b999
Two of these. Getting the leds going one at a time is fine but unsure about two at the same time.


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## Copernicus

If you want to run each led at full power you should be able to just take the 2 AC input wires and pair the negatives and positives and wire to a single plug.


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## blackdog76

That's what I did. Been working great, just make sure you solder and use heat shrink or insulated quick connects. Don't just twist and tape. 



Copernicus said:


> If you want to run each led at full power you should be able to just take the 2 AC input wires and pair the negatives and positives and wire to a single plug.


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## DanCottle

Oh ok thats what i was thinking. What would happen if you wired the drivers together at one wire and then one driver with positive and one with negative? Just curious.


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## hcker2000

The AC lines technically do not have a positive and negative. As far as the AC side of the driver goes it should not matter if Driver A Line 1 is hooked to Driver B Line 1. In other words just hook one brown wire from driver a to one of the brown wires on driver b and then hook the remaining brown wire from driver a to the other brown wire from driver b


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## ugn

Damn these f**kers are bright! .. just tested one with a 12v dc supply here.. 
Any got a tips for ~60 degree lens for one of these:


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## VadimShevchuk

How would you say 4 10 watt leds spread out on a 55 gallon compare to 1 T5 HO bulb with a quality reflector?


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## Adkins.its

I would say no even close.


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## ugn

So if I got this straight, if I wanna get a dimmable driver for 5 of these 10W LEDs I got 2 options:

Constant Voltage driver
-I need a driver that put's out ~8-12V and 1A per each led, so min. 5A for 5 LEDs

Constant Current driver
-I need a driver that put's out from 0,5A to 1A and (1A * 12v = 12 watt) 12w times each led, 60W for 5 LED's.

About correct? And option #2 is the preferred route to go


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## tentacles

You really can't/shouldn't use a constant voltage (as the only control option) power supply with LEDs, because the voltage/current relationship changes with temperature significantly. What you want is something like a meanwell ELN, LPF, HLG etc. Putting 5 on one driver is a bit of a problem, though - a dimmable driver that outputs 60v is going to be nearly impossible to find, or expensive. If you go with 6, you could use an HLG80-36 (36v 2.3A) or an LPF90-36 (36V, 2.5A). IIRC they run about $50-60 at powergate.


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## ugn

The constant current route is the preferred way to go, I know.
But the math was really the question, if I got that one right, as it seem's I don't 

How can 5 units of 10W LEDs need 60 volt, if 6 needs 36 volt? Do you wire 2 set's of 3 in series, and then parallel the 2 set's?

To make the story shorter, my plan was to use 10 units in total. 2 active heat sinks with 5 LEDs on each. I can always add a LED (or to) extra if that makes the driver choice easier 

Any tips is much appreciated!


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## tentacles

Well, yes, I supposer you could get a 5A 12v supply and that would do it, most people seem to go the other way, though. Most drivers will have better efficiency the higher operating voltage they run at, although the difference may only be 5-6%. In fact, meanwell makes 12v drivers if you want to go that route. If you're doing 10, I would suggest getting the HLG120-24B, unless you're doing DIY or something. 

And yes, 36v would be 2 strings of 3 lights.


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## ugn

I feel that you misunderstand me, I wanna get a constant current driver for the LED's.
But in my search it would really help to understand why and how, to be able to pick the right driver.

Is it common to parallel and then serie wire (or the other way around) LED's like that?
The only limit is the number of watt the driver can pump out? As long you stay in the right volt area that the driver likes to operate.


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## hcker2000

There are many ways to wire them up. I will give you some examples.

1. All leds in series. For three 10 watt leds you would need roughly 33 volt - 1 amp driver.

2. All leds in parallel. For three 10 watt leds you would need roughly 11 volt - 3 amp driver.

3. Combination of 1 and 2. For FOUR leds. You could do two sets of leds in series. Your Driver would need to be 22 volt - 2 amp driver.


Just a status update on my setup. Still running it without fans. Plants are loving the 30 watts of led lights. Dwarf hair grass is still healthy. Wysteria is growing crazy still. Going to spread the three main stems out a bit so each gets more light.


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## Naekuh

ugn said:


> The constant current route is the preferred way to go, I know.
> But the math was really the question, if I got that one right, as it seem's I don't
> 
> How can 5 units of 10W LEDs need 60 volt, if 6 needs 36 volt? Do you wire 2 set's of 3 in series, and then parallel the 2 set's?
> 
> To make the story shorter, my plan was to use 10 units in total. 2 active heat sinks with 5 LEDs on each. I can always add a LED (or to) extra if that makes the driver choice easier
> 
> Any tips is much appreciated!


Each 10W LED draws 12V @ 900mA. ~ 10.8W 
if you have 5 of them on serial, they would draw 60V @ 900mA = 54W

Where are u getting 6 needs 36V? 
The LED's would need to be 6V each, and these LED's dont run so well @ 6V.


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## ugn

Naekuh said:


> Each 10W LED draws 12V @ 900mA. ~ 10.8W
> if you have 5 of them on serial, they would draw 60V @ 900mA = 54W
> 
> Where are u getting 6 needs 36V?
> The LED's would need to be 6V each, and these LED's dont run so well @ 6V.


It you read a couple of post's back you'll see.

You can wire 3 LED in serial, so they draw 12v*3 = 36V and you do this twice, but then you wire these two "strings" in parallel. So they still draw 36V, but twice the amp.

Then you still can feed them constant current, as long your driver is in the right amp range.
The advantages, as I see it, is that it's much easier to find a driver.

(Ok, I'm no expert on this, so please tell me if I got this totally wrong )


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## hcker2000

Just wanted to post an updated and let every one know the leds are still going strong. Plenty of light to keep every thing in my tank growing. Even some hair grass which I'm kinda surprised about considering I'm not running any co2.


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## ugn

Thank's for this thread! 

Ordered and tested 8 of these led's (and fan's) like this:



















And in a totaly dark room:



















With a 120mm fan on the backside, running at ~19db (totaly silent), in one hour the heat sinks are running at 42'C/107'F.

Feeling this maybe be a little overkill for a 200L tank.. :icon_mrgr: but again, we like overkill! Have to get CO2 to keep the algae back now?! 

Damn, my eyes are hurting!


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## Sdavis1982

How are you messuring the temp? Infered hand held? From led side or fan side? Base of led?

I also built a three 10w led set up with two 6500k cool white and one blue. Asking so i can see how close my set up is to yours temp wise. Here are some pics. first one right side has led left stock old bulb.









Led on 40mm heatsink and fan.













































Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## Quesenek

If I were to get say 6 of these for my 75g 3 on each side staggered how much better would they be compared to my 1 bulb t5ho light?

And how much would I need to compare to a 4 bulb t5ho fixture?


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## ugn

I used one of these:










Placed the sensor (placed/hammered/punched) about the same position as one of the LEDs. The whole heatsink held about the same temp (measured by hand) so I think it's accurate enough for me and my use.
(Picture is taken now for illustration, the temp is room temp) 

The problem now is finding a driver for this.. 12v/4A - 24v/2A - 48v/1A constant current.


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## Sdavis1982

I used one like this. Same company little smaller. 

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=320908747113 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## madhatter4

This is my setup, and experience with LEDs. 

It started out as 12 10Watt Chinese LEDs over my 90 gallon(24" tall). The heat sink is just angled aluminum from homedepot and does not work well at full power. I only run the LEDs at 75% full power to avoid overheating. To compensate for this I added 2 T5NO bulbs down the middle. I really wish I had a PAR meter so I would have a clue about the amount of light I am producing, all I can do is guess. I have no idea if I have low, medium, high, or ultra high light.








































This picture was taken on 5/20/2011. I had just planted some DHG Belem to be grown emersed. There is a layer of Osmocoat fertilizer under the Eco-Complete.












This picture was taken on 10/27/2011. The DHG had filled in nicely on the right side (due to a white wall on the right side I think). I was running the LEDs at 75% with the T5NO lights on for 10 hours a day during the emersed period. I flooded the tank and planted some Crypticorne Wendtii from another tank. 












This picture was taken on 5/16/2012. The DHG has not spread but has stayed healthy. The Crypts have grown nicely and are spreading but slowly. The Rotala Magenta was planted in January and I have barely been able to keep it alive. I planted some Corkscrew Vals at the same time and they have all died but the one next to the overflow. The LEDs had been running at 75% for 7 hours a day with the T5NO running for 4 hours a day. I fertilized with a low dose of dry ferts about every 8 weeks, and used Osmocoat in Gel caps for the root zone once. No co2 was used. 











From my observations over the past year I would guess that I have low to medium light levels with this setup. While I did get growth from all my plants it was by no means fast, but I did not fertilize much or run co2 so that may have made a difference. I setup pressurized co2 last week and I almost have it dialed in. Im hopping that the addition of co2 and more dosing will get the DHG to actually spread now.

[Edit] I forgot to add that I have some Ricca mini entangled with my DHG. That stuff is growing like a weed and I always have to pull it out of my grass or it will take over.


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## ugn

What driver do you use?


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## madhatter4

ugn said:


> What driver do you use?


Its a custom driver/controller I built just for this tank. Here is the thread for it.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/diy/120879-my-awesome-me-diy-led-setup.html

The thread has all the details but basically it is an event/calendar based controller that drives the LEDs via pulse width modulation of the 12 volt rail. I ran the LEDs in parallel with current limiting resistors inline, each LED gets ~900mA at full power. Full tilt this thing produces 130 watts of LED power.


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## Sdavis1982

Have u made any for people? Are you still happy with its long term use? At $40 i would want to talk about having one made for me. 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## madhatter4

Sdavis1982 said:


> Have u made any for people? Are you still happy with its long term use? At $40 i would want to talk about having one made for me.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2



I have been using this controller for over a year and it has been working great. It controls my LEDs, T5NOs, and now my CO2. The time drift is minimal, maybe a few minutes per year. I would say it is pretty well de-bugged at this point, but there are still a few features I am wanting to add.

I have not built any for others yet. When I get the software finished I will be happy to make some for the folks here. $40 is the cost of parts, I would charge around $80 as it is a process to build the thing.


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## Sdavis1982

That sounds fair 

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2


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## DanCottle

I finally got my led and custom housing up and running. Its a single 10w about 21inches from substrate over my 18inch cube. I may lower it an inch or so but seems plenty bright for now I think. I have mini pellia and fissidens in this tank so high light isnt really needed. I will be making one for a brackish tank soon. Ill post a pic or maybe video one of these days.


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## Mcg177

Any update on the growth you guys are getting?
I just purchased 2 of the 10w led's for my 20long and cant wait to build it.


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## shrimpNewbie

Adkins.its said:


> I would say no even close.


And you would be wrong and surprised, put 90 degree lenses on them and it will out do your t5 single bulb no prob


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## madhatter4

Mcg177 said:


> Any update on the growth you guys are getting?
> I just purchased 2 of the 10w led's for my 20long and cant wait to build it.



Here is a photo taken on June 3rd.









Here is June 7th, 4 days later









I have 12 10 watt LEDs running at 78% duty cycle for 8 hours. I have not been using my T5s during this time, LED only + co2/ferts. Im guessing that I am running around 700mA per LED. I will measure tomorrow and post. 

My tank is 24" tall. MY DHG Belem is spreading, Ludwigia Red (planted on June 2nd) has grown an inch or two, and Rotala Magenta is doing better. I also have had some fissidens and subwassertang pop up out of nowhere in the past two weeks.

For me, the LEDs are doing great. Been running for over a year with no issues.


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## madhatter4

I measured my amperage this morning and was off on my above guess. I forgot I had adjusted the output of my power supply to ~11 volts from 12. At 78% duty cycle my LEDs are using 6.6 Amps (~550 mA each).

So at roughly half the rated power of the LEDs, I am getting measurable growth in a 4 day span.


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## hcker2000

Glad to see this thread still alive. My plants are all doing really well. The dwarf hair grass is spreading and none of it has died. I figured sure some of it or all of it would as I have never attempted to grow it before.

The wisteria is growing very well. Probably an inch a week.

Keep in mind I'm not running any CO2 and only have 1 fertilizer stick worth of fertilizers in there and they are about due for replacement.

The algae bloom that happened has died back which is great. Still havn't bothered with a fan yet. Oh and rubber bands suck for mounting the drivers as they dry out and break.


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## daz4321

any idea on how many i would need to run over a 2ft cube for med to high light? with co2


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## shrimpNewbie

daz4321 said:


> any idea on how many i would need to run over a 2ft cube for med to high light? with co2


Just run one 50w epistar from acrc ebay store, the led itself is $80 however it can be run at 125 watts if you have a driver capable of doing so, it would be more than enough at 50w though trust me


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## Mcg177

Quick question I just bought 2 of the square ones off eBay and was wondering about using old 12v chargers I have around the house as drivers (trying to do it super duper cheap) I have 3-4 12v .7A chargers from old electronics lying around and was thinking I could use these instead of buying drivers.
What's your thoughts?

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


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## madhatter4

Mcg177 said:


> Quick question I just bought 2 of the square ones off eBay and was wondering about using old 12v chargers I have around the house as drivers (trying to do it super duper cheap) I have 3-4 12v .7A chargers from old electronics lying around and was thinking I could use these instead of buying drivers.
> What's your thoughts?
> 
> Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk


You can use them but you will need a ~17.128 ohm series resistor rated for at least 8.3 watts otherwise you may fry the power adapter and or the LED.


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## blackdog76

Had a lot of cuba dying no matter what combinations I tried until I started focusing on the substrate. The Fluval Plant Stratum seems to be the only substrate the cuba is interested in gowing healthy in. It's finally starting to carpet again after all these months of trial and error.

At the start:










About 3 months ago (cuba's leaves are small, roots not extending, and thin stems. Just barely hanging in there):










Current (leaves look way better, roots extending down into the substrate nice and deep, stems are thick and green) :










Light doesn't seem to be the culprit. Lights are still going strong at full power. This was a test after all so I'm running them at max.


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## Mcg177

ok so i bought 2 of these with the drivers from eBay and i hooked one of them up and held it above my tank (20gal long) and it didn't seem that bright? (god forbid you look at the led itself you'll go blind..) my question is do you think i should do more than two on a 20 long?


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## boxhead1990

I was running 12 3 w chineese diodes over my 60 with good results now there going over my 3 footer 

And lets say there bloody bright

When I grt the tank sorted il post pictures

I got mine as a kit on eBay (led's, heats sinks, driver)

Im interested to see how my crypts and hc go in this set up



Sent from my ST25a using Tapatalk 2


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## boxhead1990

So this is day one still need to clean up the substrate a bit tho

Sent from my ST25a using Tapatalk 2


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## csf

I'd think lenses are pretty important here, right?


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## boxhead1990

Wide lenses to bring the spread in a little would help but iv been unsuccesful in finding a lense to suit my aplication tho 

Sent from my ST25a


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## Mcg177

hey boxhead i tried looking for that kit you got on ebay can you pm me the link i need to make another led setup for my 46 bow front


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## csf

Two options here that are simple/easy.

Run two fans in series. You'll end up with about 6V across each if you have 12V main rails.

Or stick a small resistor in series with one fan.

http://www.blackfiveservices.co.uk/fanspeed.shtml

Keep an eye on the heat sink temps as you drop fan speeds to find the right balance.

Also clean your fan - dusty, caked fan blades are noisy.



Adkins.its said:


> Did you use a separate power supply for your fans or did you run them of your drivers and regulate them some how?


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## csf

I got a handful of LEDs w/ 60 degree lenses from [Ebay Link Removed] Trying to get a setup over my 75 gallon planted.

Looking at driver options now. Looking at something around 6-8 LEDs per side of the tank for 12-16 total. I've currently got a 4x55 AHS CF setup.

Bought 10 cool white, 10 warm white. Attempt to get some better CRI this way.

Working on driver options now, I have access to some old computer power supplies, so a buck puck or a meanwell or something. One meanwell could handle a few in a series / parallel grid vs. individual drivers which would be a wiring mess.

Steve's LEDs have some 4 channel drivers that should handle 2 LEDs per channel (24V channels, 2x12V drivers). 



boxhead1990 said:


> Wide lenses to bring the spread in a little would help but iv been unsuccesful in finding a lense to suit my aplication tho
> 
> Sent from my ST25a


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## boxhead1990

Im running 12 3w's over my 40 breeder and neeed more

Sent from my ST25a


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## csf

I've gotten the kit set up with a meanwell 240W, 50V driver. Using 16 LEDS now (8 of each). I have an extra 4 but haven't used them yet. Using about 900mA per LED.

Seems brighter, but tank is having to adjust and CO2 and dosing weren't running right (good enough for 3 old 55W CFs, problems showed up when going to ~170W of LED).

Sitting about 6" over water using the square tube heat sink w/ forced air cooling. Quite warm, but could leave finger on for a while w/o burning (10+ secs).


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## ugn

Have anyone tried: (cheap 10W from thebay)









Having problems with my LED's fried because of water splash.. Maybe this could be a easy solution?


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## jarvitron

I've got two 10w, both currently flecked with water splash on the lens. They work great, different vendors offer different wiring configs, two or three wire and a large variety of lead lengths, but they're all basically the same "outdoor safe" weatherproofing, barely warm to the touch after hours of use and very bright. At $16 and only needing a plug end crimped on, they're basically the only aquarium lights I'll buy from here on out. I'm thinking about redoing my 35 hex as a planted tank and considering the 20/30w units to light it.


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## ugn

Thanks for the feedback 
I'we got two on the way to test out, gonna use them (the plan is to use 4) over a 200L/53Gal. My current LED 'lays' on top of my tank and water is splashing and killing them :/
Tired of fixing them and want to try something different.

The nice ting about there is that they come with a driver, ready just to plugg in.

Do you got any pictures of your current setup? Curious on the angel they spread.


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## james1542

This thread has some examples:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=195589


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## jarvitron

This is a bad pic from my iPhone but you can see how mine are set up (8.5" to versa top, 19" to substrate, lots of floaters). Definitely low light at the substrate in my config. http://twitter.com/jarvitron/status/281863187731730434/photo/1

I'll summarize what I said in a PM reply earlier

The spread on the floodlight is advertised as 120 degrees, I think it's more like 90 degrees on the short axis and 120 on the long axis.

Depending on how close to the top of your tank you want these (right on top of the lid for example), you want to pay attention to that. If you're using something that is very shallow for its length (like a 55 or a 12L) you probably want to set them up landscape-orientation and space them evenly on the top, one flood per foot of tank length.

If you're using a tank that is deeper than 12" (like a 40b or a 50 or 75), you might think about putting them in portrait-orientation, and closer together lengthwise, maybe a flood per 8" of tank length.

What I like most about my LEDs is how directional the light is, spill from the tank on to the floor or splash onto the wall is significantly less than any reflectorized incandescent or fluorescents that I have.

If used on a 12" high tank (the aforementioned 15, 20L) and right on the top, 12 or less inches from lamp to substrate, it could be very bright indeed with just 10w lamps. For 18+" high tanks (40B, 55, hexes and all manner of other bigger tanks) you might think about the higher wattage emitters.


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## ugn

Thanks, thanks!
Got ~15 tanks in the house, from 46L to 250L so I'll try them on different setups and order some with higher wattage also I guess


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