# CalmSeasQuest's 12G Long Iwagumi



## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

My Journey From Reef to Planted...

For the better part of the past twenty years, I've kept reef tanks, mostly SPS. As did many, I got my start in aquaria with freshwater tanks. In my case it was 55 gallon tanks with Oscars and Jack Dempsys in my bedroom some 40 years ago. While I was certainly aware of planted tanks, I never really paid much attention, that is until a couple of weeks ago when I stumbled across Takashi Amano's builds at the Sumido Aquarium in Tokyo. These were different. While I knew they were an incredible and complex undertaking, they instilled a calmness and serenity that I found irresistible. I truly love my reef tanks, but I HAD to try this.

I have a few Mr. Aqua 12 longs and stands on hand that I had purchased for other reef builds that I imagined would provide nice proportions for an Iwagumi -style build, so I started my research which inevitable led me to TPT and many others 12 long builds. Enough of the backstory - here's the beginning...

This will be a peninsular build visible from 3 sides using the Mr. Aqua Elm stand stained ebony (just a hint of grain) and finished with Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane - Satin. All equipment will be hidden in the stand with only the clear drain, return, top off and CO2 lines visible.


Tank - Mr. Aqua 12 Long (36" X 8" X 9") 
Lights - 23W TrueLumen Pro 8,000K, R2 LED Moonlights
CO2 - Aquarium Plants Carbon Doser, ADA Pollen Glass Type 3
Filtration - Eheim 2215 with Lily Pipe Outflow P-2 13mm and Lily Pipe Inflow MINI V-1 13mm, Cabochon Ruby check valve
ATO - YTBD (I travel a lot so an ATO is needed)
Substrate - Power Sand>Aqua Soil- NEW Amazonia Regular>Aqua Soil- NEW Amazonia - Powder
Hardscape - Ryuo stones
Flora - YTBD
Fauna - YTBD
Heater - Hydor ETH200 200W Inline (much larger than needed, but the smallest inline I could find.)
Controller - I have an Apex Aquacontroller managing two reef tanks in the room where this build will reside that can also manage/monitor this tank, I can easily add a temp probe (heater failsafe), pH probe (CO2 failsafe) and perhaps ORP if I can deduce some usage in freshwater IF I can figure out a way to hide them without having a sump. It will also manage lighting sunrise/sunset and Lunar cycles.
 Test Kit - API
 Water - Well water with 0TDS RO/DI available if needed
I have the tank, stand (waiting to be finished and assembled) CO2 tank regulator, Eheim 2215 and controller - The rest is being ordered with the ADA components coming from ADG. Due to my lack of planted experience, I decided to largely use ADA recommended equipment, supplies and dosing regimes understanding that while it surely could be done less expensively - it might help me avoid "nooby" mistakes.

I am slowly working my way through the tremendous differences and dichotomies between planted and reef and greatly appreciate any comments and/or advice on the overall plan and equipment chosen.

Thanks for following!


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## FlyingGiraffes (Jan 30, 2011)

Sounds good to me. Looking forward to it.

Are you going to DIY some leds? I just thought this up, but you could try two 16" finnex ray II leds.

If you did want to save some easy bucks you could purchase dry ferts. Buy a set of measuring spoons and you can dose on the cheap.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

FlyingGiraffes said:


> Sounds good to me. Looking forward to it.
> 
> Are you going to DIY some leds? I just thought this up, but you could try two 16" finnex ray II leds.
> 
> If you did want to save some easy bucks you could purchase dry ferts. Buy a set of measuring spoons and you can dose on the cheap.


Thanks!
I like the Ray IIs, except for having to rig a way to use 2 X 16". I've also been watching Interzoo to see if there's anything relevant coming. Lots of new pendant offerings too. I've got AIs. ReefBrite and Maxspect LEDs on hand, but none in the FW spectrum. I'll get something figured out by the time all this comes together


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

CalmSeasQuest said:


> Thanks!
> I like the Ray IIs, except for having to rig a way to use 2 X 16". I've also been watching Interzoo to see if there's anything relevant coming. Lots of new pendant offerings too. I've got AIs. ReefBrite and Maxspect LEDs on hand, but none in the FW spectrum. I'll get something figured out by the time all this comes together


Finnex is making ray2 36" :icon_smil


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

sayurasem said:


> Finnex is making ray2 36" :icon_smil


I did find a post that indicated they are making a 3' fixture but no eta. It looks like it might be a good fit


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

btw what kind of stand your making?
I want to make ada style but afraid its not going to be stable


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## FlyingGiraffes (Jan 30, 2011)

sayurasem said:


> btw what kind of stand your making?
> I want to make ada style but afraid its not going to be stable





calmseasquest said:


> this will be a peninsular build visible from 3 sides using the mr. Aqua elm stand stained ebony (just a hint of grain) and finished with minwax helmsman spar urethane - satin.


^ :d


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Thanks FG 

Here are a couple shots of the Mr. Aqua Stand (not my photos)










While I like the minimalist style, the fit and finish are lacking. The stand requires a lot of filling and sanding prior to finishing to come anywhere near furniture grade. There are many finger joints visible hence my use of ebony stain....










Still, I think it will work well for my installation once "tweaked" a bit.

I'm hoping to finalize the equipment today and get things ordered. Frank at ADG indicated most of the ADA items currently out of stock should be arriving this Friday.

I'm still struggling to find a way (other than drilling the tank and adding a sump or adding a HOB filter) to use my controller and still be able to hide all probes. The temp probe could be hidden in the substrate(although the wire would still show.) There's really no way to completely hide the pH and ORP probes with my intended minimalist design. Although obviously they are not needed, it just seems a shame not to to utilize them as the controller sits within a few feet of the tank.

Another thought - I was among a few that pioneered the use of high power lasers for controlling marine pests and algae. I'll be curious to learn if there are any potential applications in planted tanks. I'm new to TPT and am not sure of the rules regarding outside links. If you want to learn more or see videos of the lasers in use, just Google "Use of Lasers in Controlling Pest Algae and Corals"


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

I made a call on the lighting...










Current USA 36" TrueLumen Pro in 8,000K









The tank mounting brackets raise the light about 1.5"

Based on the PAR data contained in samamorgan's LED PAR thread, a single unit at 23W should provide ~75 PAR. I expect the actual PAR numbers to be slightly higher than reported as the PAR measurements used were from tests conducted by AquaNerd using the marine version of the light. The Apogee MQ-200 PAR meter underestimates PAR when measuring very blue light by up to ~20%. I'll share PAR data once set up.

This should provide enough PAR and a very small footprint resulting in minimum distraction. The only think it doesn't provide is moonlighting, but that can be addressed separately.


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## bitFUUL (May 14, 2010)

Nice setup, and welcome to sweet water!


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

bitFUUL said:


> Nice setup, and welcome to sweet water!


Thanks bitFUUL - This should be a fun.

ADA order placed...


101-507	Clear Parts Set	1
104-041	Aqua Soil- NEW Amazonia (9 liters)- Powder Type	2
104-012	Power Sand SPECIAL-M 6 liter	1
104-111	Bacter 100	1
105-021	Clear Super	1
104-113	Tourmaline BC	1
150-005	Penac P 200g (For Plants)	1
150-003	Penac W 200g (Aquarium)	1
102-1014	Pollen Glass Type 3	1
103-001	Green Brighty STEP 1 500ml	1
103-021	Brighty K 500ml	1
103-101	Green Bacter 50ml	1
103-104	ECA 50ml	1
103-103	Phyton-Git 50ml	1
103-102	Green Gain 50ml	1
106-002	Pincettes M	1
RyStone	Ryuo Stone	30 (I won't need anywhere near 30lbs, but it will provide for more options in stone selection)
104-043	Aqua Soil- Africana (9 liters)- Powder Type	1
105-300	Clear Hose (3m) 13mm	1
102-512	Cabochon Ruby	1 (I've got lots of check valves, but this one is beautiful )
102-412	Lily Pipe Outflow P-2 13mm	1
102-433	Lily Pipe Inflow MINI V-1 13mm	1
102-701 Joint Glass 11mm 1
103-302 Drop Checker 1
102-011 NA Thermometer J-05CL (5mm) "Fahrenheit Ver." 1
Frank advised the container was due in Friday, so hopefully these will ship early next week. Lights will arrive tomorrow and I'll try and get the stand finished over the weekend. 

Progress


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Lights and a few other components came in today. I heard from Frank that the ADA order will ship Monday or Tuesday. I've got an idea on how to tie in my Apex and probes in a manner that won't visually impact the tank (I'll tinker with it this weekend to see if it's viable.)

And in a rare moment of clarity, I'm wondering what I thought I was going to do with a 200 watt heater on a 12 gallon tank :eek5: Into the cabinet full of unused/un-needed parts it goes.

My hope is to get the finish work done on the stand and get the tank and lights set up this weekend.


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## Anhvu (Apr 19, 2012)

^^ what light did you buy?


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

May I know how much is the lighting strip cost?


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Anhvu said:


> ^^ what light did you buy?


8,000K True Lumen Pro. At 23W with surface mounted emitters and without secondary optics, I'm hoping for decent spread and PAR ~80 on this tank.



sayurasem said:


> May I know how much is the lighting strip cost?


 $130 for the light, $45 for the power supply and $17 for the tank docking mounts.


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## Anhvu (Apr 19, 2012)

CalmSeasQuest said:


> 8,000K True Lumen Pro. At 23W with surface mounted emitters and without secondary optics, I'm hoping for decent spread and PAR ~80 on this tank.
> 
> $130 for the light, $45 for the power supply and $17 for the tank docking mounts.


I'm stuck between the 12K and 8k now. Please give us the review when you get it


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Anhvu said:


> I'm stuck between the 12K and 8k now. Please give us the review when you get it


I had the same struggle - My background is Reefs and it's hard to accept 8,000K as an ideal - to my eye, the 12,000K+ blue looks much better but...

I know just enough to know I don't planted (yet) so I trust those that say 8000K is _the_ color.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

The Mr. Aqua stand turned out to be more work than anticipated. Virtually every piece needed work having gaps in many of the the board seams and finger joints that needed filling. I managed to get to get it filled, sanded, stained and 2 coats of Helmsman Spar Urathane applied.

The stand is finished in a wabi-sabi like style. The ebony finish appears aged or slightly distressed (which also hides some of the many flaws in the cabinet ) 

I'm hoping 2 coats of Helmsman will suffice so I can get it assembled and the tank placed tomorrow.


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## Anhvu (Apr 19, 2012)

Hey Tom, did you test the light yet? Any pic for us?


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Anhvu said:


> Hey Tom, did you test the light yet? Any pic for us?


I got the stand completed (finally.) The Mr. Aqua stand required so much finish work, I would have been far better off building one from scratch (not to mention the missing hardware.)

I only had a few moments, but I put the tank on the stand, grabbed a few quick photos and PAR measurements. I'm very pleased with the results. My guess at PAR was pretty close. If needed (largely depending on the aquascape) I can dim these to lower the PAR output. The quality of the light is better than I had expected.



















I used an Apogee MQ-200...


















These PAR measurements were taken in "open air". Based on my experience, they will differ little when measured with water in the tank. The fact that these lights use surface mounted emitters without any optics _might_ provide different results through water - I'll remeasure once the tank is wet.

I had originally planned on setting this up as a peninsular, dividing the kitchen from the family room. I found that it's just to small and didn't provide balance to either room. Instead it's set up behind a couch on the opposite side of the room from the reef tanks.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

A few updates...

Moved the the stand to the garage for a few days to allow it to "outgas" The fumes from the oil-based stain and Helmsman were still a bit much.

I don't like the way the black power cords are so noticeable on the TrueLumen Pro - especially since the fixture itself mostly disappears. I'm painting the the docking brackets white and ordered some vinyl stain to make all the exposed parts of the cords (above the black stand) white and hopefully less noticeable.

Decided on frosted glass (cling film) for the back of the tank

I've been thinking through the aquascaping (I guess it's "hardscape" in planted speak ) I might vary a bit from my interpretation of a traditional Iwagumi design. I really love many of the the Manzanita/Moss trees that I've seen created and would like to try one. I found an interesting piece of Manzanita shaped in a manner I think I can emulate a cliff-side, wind-swept Cypress...









I still have to research the best mosses/plants to use in the creation of the tree.

I also stumbled across some petrified wood tailings that I think might have a couple interesting uses. I'm hoping my DFS-100 (diamond blade band saw used in Fragging corals) will make quick work of these allowing me to create custom sizes/shapes....










At some point I have to start thinking about a planting plan. Likely HC for most of the foreground. I want to maintain some negative space, so, from what I have learned thus far, the challenge will be balancing enough plant mass to avoid algae against - the minimalist design I have in my minds-eye. I'm also trying to come up with a balance between my water options (horrible, tannin-laced well water and 0 TDS RO/DI) with a livestock plan and how I might be able to include a couple shrimp species.

I've decided to hold of integrating my Apex until I get some experience with the tank wet and see just what is needed or desired. I do have a couple extra Cole-Parmer peristaltic pumps that could easily be used to automate the top-off. 

One other observation for anyone considering the the Mr Aqua stand - It has a _very_ small interior with only ~7" usable depth. It will take some finagling just to get the 2215 and it's water lines in there.

Should be fun


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

A few shots of the completed stand. The finish has a "tortured" look to it - Just image the resulting offspring if a black-lacquer baby grand piano mating with a wooden shipping pallet...

Yup, that pretty much describes it 




























The shelf has to be removed in order for the 2215 and 5# CO2 bottle to fit. While this is not a type of finish I would have normally chosen, somehow it seems appropriate for a Wabi-Sabi style cabinet. The shelf has to be removed in order for the 2215 and 5# CO2 bottle to fit. While this is not a type of finish I would have normally chosen, somehow it seems appropriate for a Wabi-Sabi style cabinet. The only somewhat disappointing part is that many hours or work went into creating this and it ends up looking like it was made from a left-over shipping crate :icon_eek:


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## tenzero1 (Nov 29, 2011)

Looks great! I really like the stain on the cabinet. I am also envious that you have a 12long I want one so bad. This is going to be an awesome build!


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

tenzero1 said:


> Looks great! I really like the stain on the cabinet. I am also envious that you have a 12long I want one so bad. This is going to be an awesome build!


Thanks tenzero - I'll get used to it 

I finished testing my water sources this morning. Still trying to decide my options. I was hoping that between my well water, RO-only water (for drinking and ice cubes) and zero TDS RO/DI (Reefs) I would have something close to what I needed for this tank. In looking at the results, I'm not so sure...

Water Parameters - API Liquid Tests	

------Well----Sink RO----RO/DI (aged)
pH	--7.6-----6----------6.4
Gh	--< 1---< 1----------0
KH	--20------2----------0
TDS	310-----21---------0

If I'm interpreting this correctly, it looks like my best option will be to buffer the RO/DI? I was hoping I'd have an out-of-the-tap option 

I've been trying to come up with a shrimp plan, and after reviewing the individual species needs and pairing down what I like - Initially I thought I would target 7.2~7.4pH, 4~5KH, 6~8GH. It appears that would that will provide for the greatest options in shrimp species BUT - It appears that most plants including my intended hc carpet need lower pH levels. Am I better off targeting lower pH and going with CRS like values?

I'm hoping others can provide some advice and offer up recommendations as to specific products or processes. I think I'll try posting this in the water parameters section to see if I can get someone with more experience to assist in coming up with a plan


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## GMYukonon24s (May 3, 2009)

That's a great looking cabinet you have there. I also like the petrifed wood. Can't wait to see this tank up.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

Nice stand!


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

GMYukonon24s said:


> That's a great looking cabinet you have there. I also like the petrifed wood. Can't wait to see this tank up.


Thanks, I received the petrified wood on yesterday and it's amazing. I'm really excited to see how what I have in my "minds eye" translates into this build. 


sayurasem said:


> Nice stand!


Thanks - Initially I was less than pleased, but it's growing on me. One challenge is it will be a tight fit. I got the 2215, CO2 bottle with the AP Carbon Doser in the cabinet and I'm hoping to have space to install a top-off tank. It's going to be a tight fit. I also placed a thin piece of a dense foam yoga mat below the tank. It's probably not needed on a tank this small, but as I've used it on every other build - old habits die hard.

I made a bit of progress today. I managed to get the sections of the lighting power cords that will be exposed painted white. It really helps blend them into the background. They will also be further hidden by running them along the backside of the TrueLumen and down the back corners of the tank - they should all but disappear. I also applied the etching to the back of the tank. I'm very pleased...




























Hopefully the ADA order will come in this week and I get started on the hardscape.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Another decision - I was leaning toward not bothering to incorporate my Apex controller on this tank but - as I've got a lot to learn about freshwater parameters and want to create an environment conducive for shrimp - I've decided to bite the bullet and add the Apex. I'll need to order a long Aquabus cable (basically just a long male/male USB cable) another EB8 and an PM1. That will provide 8 controllable circuits, temp and pH monitoring. It will also provide the piece of mind of having a fail-safe for the heater. 

Now I just have to figure out how to hide the probes. I can probably bury the temp probe, but the pH probe will probably be seen At least it's a pretty shade of blue


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## green_valley (Sep 14, 2011)

I love the tank. Great set up.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

green_valley said:


> I love the tank. Great set up.


Thanks GV, I'm really enjoying this build thus far.

I thought some might enjoy this - Below is an excerpt of a post I wrote in one of my favored reefing forums. In it, I try to explain my first impressions (and how wrong they were) about planted and what I've learned thus far in the journey... 


...I'll admit the planted learning curve is steeper than expected. I incorrectly had the expectation that for anyone successfully keeping Reefs, planted tanks would be relatively simple - Wrong. In marine we take a few things for granted namely water/nutrient levels. We have it relatively easy - just start with 0 TDS water and the salt mix and feeding the fish takes care of most else - maybe some 2-part or CA/Alk adjustments but they are easy to measure and control. In fact, we spend more time trying to _remove_ nutrients form the water column. In planted, pH, Kh and Gh levels are often managed for specific species, as are various nutrients which cannot be easily measured/monitored and there are a thousand different ways to do so - EI, ADA, PPS, PPMD.. plus dozens of other dry and liquid dosing schemes AND the substrate is often another variable that has to be accounted for.

The use of technology in monitoring/controlling all of this appears to be less often used in FW/planted. This is perhaps due to the costs, but also that planted tanks _can_ be very simple - heck often a heater is not even used. As most planted builds don't use sumps instead choosing canister filters finding a place for equipment (probes, heaters, ATO...) is another challenge. Lighting - for plants, 8,000K is about ideal, but not very much. Anything higher than about ~60PAR is considered high light. Perhaps the biggest dichotomy of all is CO2 - In reefing we work diligently to remove CO2 from the water column in an effort to support pH levels (degassing calcium reactor effluent, CO2 scrubbers...) In planted, you intentionally add TONS of CO2 as a carbon source for the plants and to suppress CO2 levels, bubbling the stuff directly into the water column, with many tanks running with pH levels of ~6.

Learning curve aside, there are some wonderful differences in planted and freshwater over marine tanks,

Cost - Virtually every facet of planted is _significantly_ less expensive than maintaining a saltwater tank. Fish typcially range from $2-$10 with plants about the same. Many complain about the cost of ADA products (one of the preeminent brands in planted), but even those pale in comparison to the costs paid by reefers in virtually every way.

More relaxed and less Hype - The general feeling seems a bit more relaxed. No name games, "Limited edition" plants or the elevated pricing associated with it (I fully admit to being part of the name game having a Frag tank full of "gotta have" corals.) Because many get their start in FW, there are more kids involved in the hobby. It's refreshing seeing someone ponder or save up to purchase a $3 plant 

We're not in Kansas anymore Toto....

I would wager that when many (perhaps most) reefers think of a planted tank - they picture an aquarium simply full of plants and perhaps a few guppies or tetras. I too largely had this image hearkening back to my youth and keeping freshwater fish. Let me show you how I see planted tanks now (1080P/full screen is best)...

Top Planted Tanks of 2011

Here's an image that portrays the "style" that I'm striving to acheive...









So much of this is foreign to a long-time reefer, but I'll admit I'm enjoying every new challenge


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

How did you get that back glass frosted?


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

sayurasem said:


> How did you get that back glass frosted?


Etched Glass Film


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

I've been thinking about the hardscape - specifically the substrate design. With the regular and powder Aquasoil and Powersand I'm thinking it might be tough to rescape the million times it will take to finally come up with something I'm satisfied with so...

I dug out one of the other 12 longs I have on hand and I set up a "sandbox" to play in. I used Arogonite left over from a reef build and some rocks on hand (still waiting for the ADA shipment) to begin practicing - getting a feel for the scale and how to handle the elevation changes. Nothing I'm ready to share photos of yet, but at least I'm getting a bit of "scaping" experience before I have to do it for real.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

I completed a mock-up that I think I like. Keep in mind, that nothing except the petrified wood are the actual items that will be used in the tank. I just used some misc rocks, Aragonite and a random piece of Manzanita to create the mock-up. I also believe I'll be able to create steeper gradients with the Aquasoil then shown in the mock-up.










I tried to emulate a wind or current sweeping right to left that would result in the tree being so contorted. This includes trying to guesstimate where sand would be eroded away and where eddy currents might pile the sand higher (windward side of stones.)



















I'm struggling with the petrified wood - I can't decide if they should be more random, as if a natural deposit - or as shown, placed in a way emulating a wall. The individual pieces will be less evident as the Aquasoil will be deeper with a steeper cliff (I ran out of Aragonite.) The smaller pieces will likely be hidden entirely by plants.


















I toyed with creating a sand pathway separating the 2 environs, but I think less may be more.

This is my first attempt at a planted tank - any and all feedback is really appreciated


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

That manzanita looks awesome! Cover it up with moss and it will develop into a tree!


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

sayurasem said:


> That manzanita looks awesome! Cover it up with moss and it will develop into a tree!


That's the plan, although I'm not sure if I'm going to use that specific piece. I've got a bunch coming from Tom Barr that might be better  

If I end up using the one shown in the photos, I'll do some reshaping and add a few more branches.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I am loving your attention to detail. Nice to know the Mr. Aqua stands need some work, I have be contemplating one of their tanks and though I am sure I can build a stand, it's hard for me to actually transport material to do so. I will just paint mine.

That light is very slick, and the numbers look good. I think you may want to dim it however, not because they are too much, it just will be easier for your first try with planted tanks. A around 40 at the substrate would be fine, not that I have ever used a part meter or measured my tanks but from research, that seems about where my lights were on my easiest tanks (with co2). Then up it if things are going well.

Love your other touches like the background as well. 

Look foreward to this one. Hardscape looks pretty good, incredibly good for your first time with a planted tank. I know the "dark side" takes scaping to but this has potential you may not even be aware of. One word of advice though, don't get too caught up with your first scape, just let it be and tweek as needed. I still do this, it's more relaxing and I end up with a better result. IMO, it's ready to go hardscape wise.

Good luck and welcome to the planted world.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Thanks Matt - I really appreciate the feedback!

Installing the docking feet on the lights raised it 1 1/2" and slightly lowered the PAR to 69 in the center and ~60 on the edges. I have a dimmer for it as well and I think I'll take your advice and dim it back to ~40 on the substrate (especially considering the elevated ends would get blaster with PAR.) It seems many struggle with algae and I'm trying to avoid whatever mistakes I can. As there will be only plants in this tank for some time, I'm also hoping a freshly-filled 5lb CO2 canister will aid is "gassing" any algae into oblivion 

As for the Mr. Aqua stand - I have another in a box but I'd be tempted to just build a stand if another is needed and avoid the hassles.

Thanks again for your comments.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

CalmSeasQuest said:


> Thanks Matt - I really appreciate the feedback!
> 
> Installing the docking feet on the lights raised it 1 1/2" and slightly lowered the PAR to 69 in the center and ~60 on the edges. I have a dimmer for it as well and I think I'll take your advice and dim it back to ~40 on the substrate (especially considering the elevated ends would get blaster with PAR.) It seems many struggle with algae and I'm trying to avoid whatever mistakes I can. As there will be only plants in this tank for some time, I'm also hoping a freshly-filled 5lb CO2 canister will aid is "gassing" any algae into oblivion
> 
> ...


Trust me, the levels you are getting right now are perfectly fine (well, I haven't had a tank that shallow but should be fine), I just recommend going on the low side of medium light at when you first start. Then raise it up as you go. Lower light is easier to deal with in general but it's extremely easier on a new tank when your plants are still adapting, be it from shipping or emmersed growth, or differences in lighting/co2 conditions. When you are content that you have good balance (no algae issues), up the lights a bit, then again. 

You may want to go higher off the bat if you have colorful plants but if they are growing well enough in lower light and just are not colorful enough, that color will come back. I have yet to find many plants that absolutely require high light to grow, though more than a few will do better, and have better coloration, once you get into the higher light spectrum. 

Other's may say 40 is too low with CO2, or you don't need to go that low, I just am going off my personal experiences.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

I'm really liking my "Sandbox" It lets me play (learn) without worrying about mixing substrates or being in a rush to get things planted. I think I'm getting closer. I shortened the petrified wall and moved the individual pieces closer together. Some of the bases (hidden) still need to be shaped a bit to allow them to "key" closer together. I think this is looking more natural and will look much better when mostly buried in Aquasoil and a larger drop-off...



















I also added more emphasis to wind and erosion premised elevation changes. I'm excited to see what this will look like once carpeted. The balance on the left stones still isn't right, but it probably makes more sense to wait until the Ryuo stones arrive...










It's just as well the ADA shipment is running late - I bet many hours will be spent on adding-to and shaping the moss tree. :biggrin:


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

After much deliberation I decided to remove the Manzanita tree and petrified wood. Although I like both very much and will use them in a future build, I felt (and so did others) that trying to include both concepts in such a small tank ended up with each detracting form the other. So back to the drawing board...

I've looked at so many tanks, trying to get a feel for the balance and what defines a "good scape" Because these tanks are so long, I wanted to take advantage of the opportunity for elevation changes. Here's my concept...














































Again, the rocks and Aragonite substrate are just place-holders until the Ryuoh stones and Amazonian arrive. I like this concept as the elevation changes provide natural environs for different plants (i.e varying carpets.)

The ratios still aren't quite right as the Aragonite doesn't stack well and I think the second rise needs to be "Softened" a bit. While I "think" I like it, I'd really appreciate any and all comments - especially in thinking through how it might impact the planting plan. Specifically, I'm wondering,


How the rises and valleys will impact flow and CO2 dispersal.

Selecting plants to accentuate the front and back sides of the slopes (i.e. HC and UG?) I'd like to keep the number of plant species very limited, and provide subtle variations in carpet.

Is there an opportunity using both Amazonian Regular and Powder to provide contrast or varying scale/distance (or simply use the powder as a 100% top coat to improve the scale?)

Creating these elevations will seemingly require a lot of substrate in a small water-volume tank. I'm curious to see what it does to the water parameters, and as a result which shrimp species will be able to be kept in this tank. 
Thanks all!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I was going to say better rocks will give a much better appearance but then read you have that taken care of. If it's rock based, I would just wait until you get the rocks because you should let their shape/texture dictate placement. 

I personally like the way you did the substrate. However, with the majority of foreground plants, you may loose that from trimming, or have trouble trimming without ruining it over time. Honestly, with many foreground plants, it would be easier to achieve that look by trimming techniques on a flat substrate compared to an actual slope. Not saying it's a good or bad idea, and I do like the look but it will be a pain with HC (yet to try UG).

Not trying to be negative, I just think you should wait for your rocks. Then choose if you want a lot of negative space or not. The rocks will tell you where to go in many ways. 

Good luck and I am looking forward to this one.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

That's a great point Matt - I hadn't considered the increased difficulty in trimming or that it could mostly be replicated by just managing growth. I also agree that everything will likely change when I finally get the stones and see how they impact the design.

Thanks very much for your comments


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

In looking at the ridges created in the substrate, I'm concerned about the flow in thank quickly eroding them away (especially since I have no experience with the ADA Powersand and Aquasoil being used.) I've used acrylic stays and open-box footings on prior reef builds to stabilize elevation changes - but I think these are so acute, that the acrylic alone might not suffice. 

I just ordered some 8X8 316 SS mesh that I'm hoping will help stabilize the peaks of the ridges and allow for more dramatic elevation changes.

Time will tell if the idea will be viable.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

I'm still waiting on my ADA shipment containing 30lbs of Ryuoh stones to cherry pick. It's hard for me to get a sense of what's possible elevation-change wise until I actually get my hands on the ADA substrates (it's also possible/probable I might change my mind entirely...again, based on the stones.) 

I've been giving a lot of thought to trying the DSM. I'm still researching but It seems this tank might be a perfect candidate allowing the carpet to take hold and hopefully help stabilize the Aquasoil Powder. I think I've made a decision on the water - Initially, I was hoping that for the sake of simplicity, I could use my tap water. As I thought through it further, here's why I'm leaning toward remineralizing RO/DI...,

As strange as it seems, over time my well water varies quite a bit. I test is several times a year and find that TDS ranges from ~250 to as high as ~400. I'm at a loss to explain why (aquifer changes, water-softener variations...), but it does pose another variable that might be harder to manage than simply using the known quantity that is 0TDS RO/DI.

Maintaining reefs has my routines pretty regimented. I test a lot and leverage technology (Apex, probes, reactors...) to monitor and allow me to create a stable environment. I find this especially valuable as I travel extensively and Internet access and alerting provides an additional level of comfort. Because I'm so conditioned to having known values and clear targets, strangely I think I might find it more stressful not knowing what's going into the tank (via tap water) vs the comparatively simple process of adjusting RO/DI. This coupled with the fact I already have a RO/Di system in place and can easily incorporate an automated top-off system, I think makes RO/DI a better choice for me.

Hi-tech vs low-tech, lights and CO2 - I designed this so I could go either way, or perhaps more accurately - both ways. I had the CO2 equipment already on hand including a AP Carbon Doser regulator that coupled with the Apex and pH monitoring should make managing CO2 virtually plug-and-play. I chose the LEDs so I could easily vary the amount of PAR (i.e. lots for DSM, than less as needed once submerged.) 

I went this way as I'm just smart enough to know I _don't_ know what I'm doing and it affords me the most flexibility along the way for when I hopefully reach the point that I _do_ know what I'm doing.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

Dry start is good for keeping slopes, depending on how deep the plants root. It also makes planting easier as you don't have to worry about things floating up.

I personally am not a big fan of a long dry start. I will do it with certain plants (HC specifically for a week or two), only to make sure it stays down. However, I find it has two downsides. First, many people seem to have a huge outbreak in algae. It may be inevitable in some peoples tanks (too much light) and it hasn't happened to me, but it just isn't as "simple" as it seems.

The main thing is I have yet to have a plant grow more quickly, compared to CO2 (I have never added extra light, just duration, during dry start). So, I find it slower as well.

Not to say it's a good or bad idea, it has the advantage of rooting and holding slopes better (though they still will level out a bit, nothing will hold them forever), I personally am not a fan. More than a few people who have done it more than once or twice feel the same way, some people use it on every tank. 


As for the water, I think that is a good idea. Honestly, I don't think many people are using tap water over RO/DI water. A lot of us are using it _instead_ but not necessarily out of preference. Some people go 50/50. It's easier to use tap water and it's basically free. Many people use RO/DI water if they are very picky about their water parameters (breeding or picky fish), or they have bad water. I don't think I have heard any regret from people going that route and it is far from uncommon so go for it.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

The ADA order arrived 

I'm very pleased with the Ryuoh stones...










As expected, seeing the tank with the stones and Aquasoil has caused me to rethink the hardscape. I like the stones and I think they look very good in larger numbers (even though they will make maintaining adequate flow more of a challenge.) The Aquasoil is much "rounder" than I had expected and would require much support for the drastic elevation changes I was planning. 

I ordered 2 large bags of regular Aquasoil, 1 large bag of Powersand and 1 Large bag of Powder Aquasoil which combined is _much_ more than needed. Here's the sandbox with just 1 bag of Aquasoil and the stones quickly added to get a feel for what it might look like... 










I'll work on a final hardscape over the weekend and hopefully complete installing the equipment in the stand. I'm still undecided, but leaning toward starting this tank dry to give the HC a head start. 

The planting plan is still a work in progress. Because the tank is so short, I'm planning on all foreground/carpet types and mosses for the rocks. Any recommendations on plants and sources? - I'd like to purchase through the SnS, but I'm going to want a large amount of HC.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

The sandbox has served it's purpose. I _think_ I've got a hardscape that I'm pleased with...














































Getting enough flow with a single return might be difficult with all the stones. If needed, I'll upgrade filters and split the returns. I also tried to make sure each stone was set in a manner that allowed enough light for the carpet between the stones.

Now all I have to do is re-create it in the actual tank  It will look a bit different when I add the Powder Aquasoil cap. I'll also use more Aquasoil to hide a bit more of the bases of each stone and to increase the grade on the right side. Small strips of stainless steel mesh will be added to support the steeper grade areas as needed.


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## meowschwitz (Sep 6, 2011)

Absolutely love the rocks, but I'm a bit iffy on the formation. The peaks of the highest stones seem to form a plateau, so you don't get a nice variation in height. The rocks also stand a bit too vertical. Visible spaces between each stone disrupts the flow from rock to rock and the overall depth of the scape. You can make some rocks higher than other, some more angled, and some overlapping others. I know that this may not fully accommodate maximal water flow and light spread, but flow should be adequate and, in time, the carpet will fill out the less lit areas.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Thanks Meo,

I'm a bit torn, while I agree the hardscape could be improved - I rather like the current iteration.

It's probably a moot point anyway as the odds of precisely replicating the sand-box hardscape tank in the actual display are probably a million to one.

I think I'll spend a few days staring at it and see how I feel then.


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

My advice would be to adjust things until you are happy. My first 2 rocks scapes didn't look good. I wasn't happy with them when I made them, you at least seem happy with yours. Looking at them after awhile taught me what I didn't like. Then I redid some, or just started over once I got bored. Either way, it takes practice. Some people are naturally gifted, others not so much. For me, personally, I am not very good at visual arts, even though I am a semi-professional musician. I am able to see things I don't like but it's hard for me to visualize what I do. 

That said, I think your stones and layout look pretty good, especially at an angle. I would add some height variation, be it by stone size, or using substrate if they don't differ much. The easiest way to achieve something pleasing is have it make some sort of triangle. Not a perfect triangle, and definitely not an equilateral triangle, just some sort of triangle that fits. 


If you are happy, fill it up. You may choose to move things later, maybe redo in a few months, but you can move stones all day, sometimes you need to have an "ah ha" moment. I personally did and I still have a long way to go but atleast I can now make myself happy.


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## meowschwitz (Sep 6, 2011)

Number one thing is to go with what you like. Doesn't matter what other people say about aesthetics if it doesn't suit your own tastes. :icon_wink


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Thanks all for the comments and suggestions! After a couple hours of staring, I decided to try again. Here's revision # 6,154 























































This "arranging rocks in a box" is hard


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I like that one a lot more. However, I dislike one thing. The two tallest rocks are angled almost the same, at least when you account for the shape of both rocks. I would tweek the one in the middle just a bit. 

I totally feel you on the # 6,154 time lol. It does really let you see how many ways you can position a rock, much less a group of rocks. I find that is helpful as I start seeing what position each rock looks best in, both in shape, texture, and general presence. Then I try my best to position most rocks where they look the best individually, while still maintaining a good feel in the group.

I want to say that I am no expert on this and struggle a lot myself.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

talontsiawd said:


> I like that one a lot more. However, I dislike one thing. The two tallest rocks are angled almost the same, at least when you account for the shape of both rocks. I would tweek the one in the middle just a bit.


HA! I agree and I can make that tweak without a full revision - it will just be 6154.1


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## theblondskeleton (Aug 28, 2009)

This last is great - can I make a suggestion? Maybe separate the rocks into a couple of tighter groups and separate them more - keep the general angles, just play with spacing a bit by placing your open area between the groupings. The stones seem to be a uniform distance from one another, and that makes it feel a touch static. Varying spacing gives it some interesting rhythm. See the Unzan stone layout in Amano's Sumida Aquarium for a great example. The groups are tight but separated by varying distances.

PS- odd numbered groupings look best. Think in triangles.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

theblondskeleton said:


> This last is great - can I make a suggestion? Maybe separate the rocks into a couple of tighter groups and separate them more - keep the general angles, just play with spacing a bit by placing your open area between the groupings. The stones seem to be a uniform distance from one another, and that makes it feel a touch static. Varying spacing gives it some interesting rhythm. See the Unzan stone layout in Amano's Sumida Aquarium for a great example. The groups are tight but separated by varying distances.
> 
> PS- odd numbered groupings look best. Think in triangles.


Thanks very much, your "thinking in triangles" concept was very helpful. Tom Barr had offered similar advice about separating the stones into 2 groups. Here's the result...





































I removed one of the stones and this design might provide for a bit more flow. It also includes a bit more elevation change, creating some nice inter-stone planting areas.

I like it a lot, but then again - I liked most of the earlier designs as well so I clearly have some developing to do


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## theblondskeleton (Aug 28, 2009)

That's much better! Wow, way to take in critique and apply it in your own way - the best artists are able to do that with ease  Everything looks very balanced and natural, with the exception of the tallest stone. It's just a little too vertical. Maybe play with it a touch? As long as it doesn't cost you any height, it should smooth out the lines of the composition. You are very close to a winner, here!


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## talontsiawd (Oct 19, 2008)

I really like the last one. Their is room for some tweaking (I would consider moving the 3 left stones over just a tad and maybe turn the left stone in the right group a bit) but I think you could easily start the tank as is and just move things as you see fit, especially if you are still considering a dry start.


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

nice nice, when its going to be planted?


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## ThatGuyWithTheFish (Apr 29, 2012)

Remember the golden rule of iwagumi though, the oyaishi, largest, stone is placed at 2/3 the length and 2/3 the height of the tank. That is, of course, if you want to be strict about iwagumi.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

theblondskeleton said:


> That's much better! Wow, way to take in critique and apply it in your own way - the best artists are able to do that with ease  Everything looks very balanced and natural, with the exception of the tallest stone. It's just a little too vertical. Maybe play with it a touch? As long as it doesn't cost you any height, it should smooth out the lines of the composition. You are very close to a winner, here!


Thanks very much  I did further "tighten" the 2 groupings slightly and tilt/lower the tallest stone - I'll post pics tomorrow. 


talontsiawd said:


> I really like the last one. Their is room for some tweaking (I would consider moving the 3 left stones over just a tad and maybe turn the left stone in the right group a bit) but I think you could easily start the tank as is and just move things as you see fit, especially if you are still considering a dry start.


Did it - Pics on the morrow 


sayurasem said:


> nice nice, when its going to be planted?


Planted??? Are you _nuts_? You think, that after all this work getting these stones juuuuust right, I would consider messing up the whole thing by adding water and plants?!!?? 

Truthfully, I've barely even starting thinking about plants other than limiting selection to just few varieties - all forground.


ThatGuyWithTheFish said:


> Remember the golden rule of iwagumi though, the oyaishi, largest, stone is placed at 2/3 the length and 2/3 the height of the tank. That is, of course, if you want to be strict about iwagumi.


After the last tweaks, I might be close on the 2/3 length - but with a tank that is only 9 inches deep (before adding substrate) the 2/3 height isn't likely to happen. IIRC, roughly translated Iwagumi means "rock formation" Well.. I got rocks and they are, by some sense of the word in a formation - ergo Iwagumi


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

For the record - I really like what this has evolved into - although I can't take much credit for it. It's more a product of the many suggestion and comments that everyone has taken the time to provide - Thank You!


I shifted the left grouping to the right so the oyaishi sits precisely 12" from the left wall of the tank (1/3 of the tank length.)

I tightened the intra-stone spacing in the the groups

Although it shows poorly in the photographs, I created a ridge that runs the length of the tank, and gently arcs from the front-left corner to the right rear corner. I think this provides a "connection" between the groupings despite their distance.

Strangely enough, the most challenging stone to place was the small "bump" stone that sits by itself. I must have moved, rotated and tried removing that stone a thousand time. Without it - the separation of the groups seemed to "contrived". I'm curious to see everyone's opinion.

Sorry for all the reflections - I was short on time this morning...


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## mattycakesclark (Jun 11, 2010)

I like the tank stain, similar to my aimless stand. Looks great, I like the color of the substrate against the rocks.


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## theblondskeleton (Aug 28, 2009)

CalmSeasQuest said:


> For the record - I really like what this has evolved into - although I can't take much credit for it. It's more a product of the many suggestion and comments that everyone has taken the time to provide - Thank You!


Of course you can - the critique we have given are just techniques. Even the 1/3 "rule" is just a guideline. Technique is about more clearly executing your intent. The intent is always yours. Ultimately, you are responsible for the decisions that create your scape. Take some credit for the quality of your work! Though, you're welcome for the critique  Looks great!


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## sayurasem (Jun 17, 2011)

update please!


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## bigstick120 (May 23, 2005)

Any updates on the tank?

Thanks for posting the PAR data, any new with it filled? Im looking to get this fixture for my 12G long.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

sayurasem said:


> update please!





bigstick120 said:


> Any updates on the tank?
> 
> Thanks for posting the PAR data, any new with it filled? Im looking to get this fixture for my 12G long.


Sorry all, business demands have severely limited my "tank time" over the past 6 months. 

My storage cabinet is now full of the needed freshwater and ADA "parts and pieces" I just haven't had time to complete this build.

I have the tank lighted and on it's stand behind a sofa in my living room...



















This is still the mock-up tank. The actual build will use multiple substrates and substrate-additives. I also frosted the back of the tank that will eventually be used - I just haven't had time to do the transfer 

Even without water or any life whatsoever....I find it beautiful. It's one of my favorite things in the room.


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## Gotcha38 (Apr 13, 2010)

What happened to the frosted backing on this tank?


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## dudebro (Aug 23, 2012)

This looks great so far. Really looking forward to more. 

My next tank will probably be a 12 gallon long. Subscribed.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Gotcha38 said:


> What happened to the frosted backing on this tank?


This is still the mock-up tank. The actual build will use multiple substrates and substrate-additives. I also frosted the back of the tank that will eventually be used - I just haven't had time to do the transfer 

Even though it's still dry without anything growing in it - I really love this tank.


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## bluestems (Feb 7, 2012)

The evolution to this tank has been inspiring... really nice! The final layout looks great :smile:

What plantings are you considering, and I might have missed it, but what are you planning for filtration?

Looking forward to seeing it filled. :smile:

ps- on the etching, would you say it would be difficult to install on an existing tank that's filled?


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## walluby (Dec 3, 2007)

I think the rock that is pointing straight up to the 
sky needs to be angled. I think left would look 
better than right.

Jeff


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

bluestems said:


> The evolution to this tank has been inspiring... really nice! The final layout looks great :smile:
> 
> What plantings are you considering, and I might have missed it, but what are you planning for filtration?
> 
> ...


Thanks - The etching is very easy to install, it's just a vinyl cling film and it looks great.

While I haven't made any progress on this tank, I am rebuiliding the 12 long reef that sits on my desk. I placed a few more corals in the tank today - most haven't opened yet and few are in their final locations - but here are a couple of quick cell-cam photos...



















The photos are poor and don't show the wide variety of colors of the various Gorgs which includes pinks, purples and golds.


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## CalmSeasQuest (May 26, 2012)

Not much to update on this build, I've been largely tied up with work and family. I have all the equipment on hand - I just haven't had time to move it forward. I really love the look of the tank (even dry.) It's now located in the foyer of my home and I smile every time I walk by it. 



I'm currently working on an 8', 270 gallon reef build. Once it's up and running, I think I'll revisit my little Iwagumi tank.


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