# Remove 100% of Nitrates in your shrimp tank! (learn how)



## A Hill

You're more normal than me! The reason I got into this hobby was less craziness with stuff like this. There is no reason you should have to be turning over that much water in your tanks with all the plants in them!

I haven't changed the water in my 10g... since I set it up and filled her up a year ago this april vacation!

Just like you say, top off for visual and traces, and easy growing plants.

-Andrew


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## oblongshrimp

It all depends on how heavily stocked your tank is vs how many plants you have in there.


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## HOLLYWOOD

Someone pin this topic! Good stuff... Ive seen LGHT's CRS and wow they look great! Nitrate removal has always been a hot item... thanks for breaking it down and backing it with useful supporting information.


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## BlueRam

Do you find that the other macro nutrients like phosphorus/potassium and dissolved salts still accumulate?


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## Burks

And here I thought he was going to post the sugar/vodka method. :icon_lol: 

Got to love the plants!


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## crazie.eddie

I think there was a long thread on something similar posted by PlantBrain (Tom Barr) around here in regards to zero water changes. Unfortunately, I stopped following it after it got too long.


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## plantbrain

Well, it does not remove 100% of NO3 or PO4, but it should keep things very low.

As far as a plant we actually would use(all those plant are lousy, weedy and ugly) and has been used a lot for breeding operations: water sprite.

Floats, grows well rooted as well, no need for CO2, needs little light, can handle current, grows emergent as well, tough, handles high and lower temps wells(good environmental range). Low light requirements(good for deeper denser mats or cheapy normal aquarium lighting often times) 

While it might seem at first wise to discuss per unit NO3 and compare the weeds, you really need to maintain a good high stable biomass.

Too many plants, they suffer from strong NO3 limitation, too little and not enough NO3 gets removed to meet whatever criteria/gaol you set(a choice/arbitrary decision or one based on CRS data/studies etc).

So maintaining a good biomass is the key and you can alter it to suit whatever needs you might have.
As biomass grows, uptake also grows/increases dramatically.
This places more demand on other nutrients, K+, traces, P, Ca, Mg etc.

If you feed them routinely, just pull out a little Water sprite each day, it's an easy plant "mow" and remove when used as a floater.

There's also the issue of what is your real goal and what trade offs do you want for a CRS tank, : is the only goal to breed and get max brood?
Or do you want a nice tank to look at and then add CRS's as a secondary thing and hope to breed a few as well?

Two very different goals with CRS's and two very different set ups.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## A Hill

BlueRam said:


> Do you find that the other macro nutrients like phosphorus/potassium and dissolved salts still accumulate?


Are you saying to a level where a water change would be needed to remove it? Or enough for the plants still to grow? 

The plants that are used are very easy plants so they don't demand much so you shouldn't see deficiencies of nutrients if thats what you're talking about.

Too much building up shouldn't be a problem because the plants are removing that as well.

Tom I followed that thread for a long time as well and is probably one of the best on TPT. It made me understand that plant mass can be more important that everything being perfect to have a well functioning healthy aquarium. Another great plant to use is moss. All but the most picky willows work wonders. Java being the most common usually but Christmass and Spiky and Taiwan do great as well. The other pro to this is that you can sell/trade the moss for more shrimp so it helps aid to the addictions... It also is denser usually which is a good and bad thing but as long as its in enough light and trimmed it shouldn't die back thus defeating the purpose.

Many plants work well though.
-Andrew


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## Harry Muscle

Could some one post a link to this thread?

Thanks,
Harry


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## A Hill

Harry Muscle said:


> Could some one post a link to this thread?
> 
> Thanks,
> Harry


I think it actually was in one of his CO2 revelations threads but I can't find what I was looking for... Tom you remember where its at?

-Andrew


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## LGHT

I put together the post to show how you can prevent having to do water changes twice a week and still keep sensitive shrimp like CRS. Now things like amount of plants, biomass, amount of macro nutrients where not covered because I basically just wanted to focus on Nitrates for this post. Obviously you need more than 1 plant and of course biomass is always going to be more important, as ammonia and nitrites clearly trump nitrates, but I didn't want to go into multiple directions and end up having 10 discussion in one thread going in 10 directions so I didn't mention them. Those where already covered in how to care and breed shrimp sticky post.

Of course there are also different goals for every tank. Some may have a goal for their tank to look as nice as possible, others goal may be focused solely on keeping and breeding shrimp. The goal of the post wasn't specifically directed toward one tank setup, but was just a way to show how you can remove nitrates from the water without doing twice weekly water changes. Now you can apply the above info and add some of the plants to your tank or you can just keep on doing water changes as their is no one right or wrong way to keep a shrimp tank just what's right for you based on YOUR goals.

As far as my specific tank my main goal was to be able to keep and breed CRS. I also wanted to have a few plants in the tank along with some wood so it looks nice. A secondary goal was to keep the amount of upkeep down to a minimum as I also have 4 other tanks and over 200 gallons to maintain. So basically my tank isn't the best looking, or probably doesn't have perfect water, but I have been able to keep my CRS alive and breeding for a couple of years!! My only problem with the tank now is what to do with all the shrimp?? So now I'm forced to setup yet another 10 gallon tank and try my hand at selective breeding to improve quality! Hopefully I can now start giving my friends and family not just CRS, but high quality CRS for their homes.


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## kvntran

LGHT,

Great post! if you don't know what to do with the shrimps, sell them to me! 
seriously, I'm looking for around 10 crystal red and 10 crystal black. I know this is not a swap-n-shop thread, but I can't help. 

I don't do much water change in my red cherry tank either, I have a lot of moss and anacharis. It seems that anacharis helps a lot, because right after I added them, my nitrate level went down to very little to none.

Kevin


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## fishscale

Would this be an idea you could possibly apply to a freshwater "refugium"? Could you, say, have a sump from your shrimp tank packed with plants like these with a light over it? That is, have a sump which has only one purpose; to grow these ugly plants? I ask because I like none of these plants. I am sure that my indestructible duckweed is keeping the water very clean, but man is it ugly.


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## kvntran

Fishscale,

that's a great idea and I'm sure it can be done. I've seen a reef tank with a large sump with lots of mangroves, the tank owner told me that was the best filter that he ever invested in.

Kevin


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## plantbrain

A Hill said:


> I think it actually was in one of his CO2 revelations threads but I can't find what I was looking for... Tom you remember where its at?
> 
> -Andrew


Oh heck, I'm lucky if I can find my keys:redface: 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain

Well, now we have a clear goal, we now also can have a clear direction.:idea;
Decent looking tank without frequent water changes.

Most of the plants listed are weedy and not that nice.
So they are out already.

Moss is a good one, Xmas moss is particularly well suited, Fissidens is nice and one I prefer.

However, moss has very low demands for nutrients and is generally quite far away from the lights, water sprite is pretty close.

Now a mix of both might be ideal as well.
Bright green weed, darker color moss.
I really think wood is good for shrimps.
The critters that colonize wood decay and leaf decay they seem to relish.

But back to how to avoid water changes and with plants:

Less light is the goal there.
Less light= less plant nutrient demand.
This is a two edge sword, on the one hand, you might think you want fast dramatic uptake, and adding more not less light would do this.

But.........your goal is few water changes, so having less light places less demand for nutrients on plants thus they can exist and grow well at very low levels of nutrients, whereas they need much more at higher light levels.

So food alone and little trace/KH2PO4/GH booster is likely all you need to add and even then, not much at all.

This drives the limitation to NH4/NO3.

Realize that NH4 is at least 200X more toxic as NO3 with Cherries, Ghost and Amano shrimp. I have not done any toxicity test on CRS.
I'd expect them to be the same or somewhat close in the pattern.
Could be wrong, but I have no reason to doubt it either.

CRS folks tend to get all weird and funny like Discus folks do about parameters and what is causing their deaths.
Personally I have not found any issues dosing or keeping either.

I have a few, and am getting more from a local club member.
If I get enough bred to do a test, then I can do the experiment to test for NO3. This means killing shrimps on purpose.
Go complain to Red Lobster if that bugs you:thumbsup: 

Still, if you want fewer water changes, you need to increase export/limit the input(food).

90% of the food you feed them is going to end up as NH4 first, then later NO3. This is different than adding just NO3. With plants doing well, the NH4 will not add much to the NO3 pool.

If you also have plants, they add O2 which the CRS like.
If you use lower light, less and leaner/lower levels of NO3 can be maintained without the plants being too much trouble or 1/2 dying then leaching the N back into the water.

Refuges would work well if you used high light only on that and maintained the biomass of the weeds.

The other rather obvious thing is to have a smaller bioload in your tank, give them plenty of space.

But folks want to intensively culture them due to the $$$.
So if you want that, then consider water changes and focus on making the water change easier and simpler. Plants love frequent water changes and nutrients added back thereafter. 

Less light allows less frequency of water changes and less demand by the plants(thus stability is achieved at a leaner low level of nutrients).

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## LGHT

kvntran said:


> Fishscale,
> 
> that's a great idea and I'm sure it can be done. I've seen a reef tank with a large sump with lots of mangroves, the tank owner told me that was the best filter that he ever invested in.
> 
> Kevin


I used to do something similar when I had a large reef tank and filled the sump with cleaners and shrimp, but never considered it for my 180 gallon freshwater tank. It could be done quit easily with an overflow setup that had connections under the tank, but the biggest problem would be getting the water from the sump back to the tank without clogging the line because of all the plants. I guess you would need to have a section of the sump cut off where you would keep the intake to avoid clogging. I wonder if the empty tank acrylic tank on my patio would fit under my stand?? :icon_eek:


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## kvntran

LGHT,

I wouldn't worry about clogging because like you said you can allocate a small section in the sump for the intake. Also, the sump doesn't have to be directly below the tank either. My friend who had a reef tank with a large sump, ran his pipe from the first floor to the basement! and if you think about it, when you have a very large sump with lots of duckweed, hyacin... it becomes a perfect place for breeding shrimps. As for your 180 gallon tank, man, I don't know how big the sump would be for such a large tank.

Thanks Fishscale for bringing up the idea, I may look into doing this kinda setup  

Kevin


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## kvntran

Wow Tom,

That's a lot of good infos in just one post! Thanks!!!

Kevin


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## jazzlvr123

i gave up dosing nitrates to my shrimp tanks about a year ago, if you want a lot of healthy shrimps, good turnaround etc. put then in a tank full of plants that are undemanding of nutrients. a tank that will give good growth even if you do not have a full on fertilizing scheme. a tank where you shrimp are the priority, not your plants. Phosphates are all i dose in my shrimp tanks its non toxic to shrimp and it keeps the GSA monster away the occasional CSB+B wont hurt either. my shrimp tanks are full of plants that really only need adequate light co2 and clean water to survive. moss, HC, Liverwarts, fissidens. basically a bunch of weeds that do not require a fertilizing scheme for good growth. CRS are a great indicator of water quality high nitrates/ammonia your gonna loose a couple shrimp. clean water, good light, weekly water changes and lots of moss and you'll have a thriving CRS colony in no time.


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## DKShrimporium

*Hm.*

For the record, guys, I think it was my post you're referring to in which I suggested twice weekly water changes for crystals.

_However_, this was in response to a _college student _keeping them in a FIVE GALLON aquarium. In the end, I thought it was the easiest way to keep them alive in this case. (We're talking a one gallon water change once/twice a week, here.) It's very hard to run a balanced 5 gallon planted tank on a student's budget, and someone asking how to keep crystals alive isn't likely the same person doing high tech 5 gallon nanos. 

LOL, I agree, on larger or more advanced tanks the natural systems are great. Depends also on the characteristics of your water, too.

G-i-G


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## jwarper

kvntran said:


> Fishscale,
> 
> that's a great idea and I'm sure it can be done. I've seen a reef tank with a large sump with lots of mangroves, the tank owner told me that was the best filter that he ever invested in.
> 
> Kevin


I saw a show about a dairy farm in Wisconsin that used multiple sumps filled with aquatic plants to treat dairy wastewater. The water would go in looking yellowish white, and come out crystal clear. I couldn't find anything on it doing a quick search, but I did find a fairly interesting article. 

http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/Water_Pure_WH_01.html

Some of the links are dead on the page, but there are summaries to read.


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## jazzlvr123

jwarper said:


> I saw a show about a dairy farm in Wisconsin that used multiple sumps filled with aquatic plants to treat dairy wastewater. The water would go in looking yellowish white, and come out crystal clear. I couldn't find anything on it doing a quick search, but I did find a fairly interesting article.
> 
> http://www.ecosyn.us/ecocity/Links/My_Links_Pages/Water_Pure_WH_01.html
> 
> Some of the links are dead on the page, but there are summaries to read.



that is very interesting seems like the main plant the use is water hyacinth


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## lauraleellbp

Water hyacinth is *the* nutrient-sink-plant-bar-none, IMO; one of the main advantages is that it grows with the majority of its leaves in the air, and so is better able to take advantage of the higher CO2 in the atmosphere, and only the roots are under water to soak up the nutrients.

It's probably the most common plant used commercially for water treatment.

Major invasive pest here in FL; able to outcompete just about every other native plant b/c it's so efficient.

At least the manatees like it...


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## A Hill

Can't find the post, why not just post another great one.

Your post sounds like my 10g  

The problem I'm probly going to try and fix with leaf litter is lack of food from having too many shrimp in it.. I could just sell though.

Great thread so far.. what more to add? 

-Andrew


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## bibbster

Here is an interesting read on the water hyacinth...

http://technology.ssc.nasa.gov/suc_stennis_water.html


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## Hmoobthor

what about mosses?


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## ravensgate

Zombie thread! Might take a while to get new input on a thread almost 5 years old.


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## eco

Lol interesting read though!


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## BBradbury

*Removing Nitrates*

Hello TPT...

Nitrates aren't difficult to remove and I know of no better way than to emerse the root balls of Chinese Evergreens (Aglaonema) in the tank water. The plants naturally convert the nitrogens produced by the aquatic animals into new leaves, stems and roots. The old leaves turn yellow when they've taken in enough toxins from the water and are removed to generate new growth.

By emersing this land plant in my planted tanks, I've reduced the nitrate levels from 20-30 ppm to approximately 5 ppm in just a matter of days. I've added enough plants to some tanks, I removed all mechanical filtration. The plants maintain fresh water conditions for the fish and all I have to do is every week, replace about 2 percent of the tank volume that's lost to evaporation.

B


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## bibbster

The thread might be almost five years old :icon_lol:, but BBradbury's post above is some good information. 

Which proves that just because it's an old thread doesn't mean new information can't be added.


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## elliotkim

What is your water parameters, like, Gh KH Ph TDS temperature? what kind of substrate and how think is it? Are those important?
Thanks.


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