# glutaraldehyde solution bad for mosses and shrimps?



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

i want to know how to dilute glutaraldehyde in water to make a proper solution to dose. I also want to know that i read on wikipedia that it is bad for mosses. and also read somewhere that it is bad for shrimps. i want to know that has anyone ever had any experience with this? i dont get Metricide here where i stay so ill have to purchase glutaradehyde 25%.


----------



## RandomMan (May 31, 2011)

I've never had a problem when using normal dosing with any of my mosses. I've got java, Christmas, Rose, and Flame. I've been direct dosing some flame moss in one of my tanks to try and kill off some hair algae that's been growing, and it doesn't seem to have done them any harm.

I do believe however it caused my Foxtail to brown when applied too close to it.

I've also heard it may kill shrimp, and is best left out of a shrimp tank.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

i just have shrimps in my tank as i breed them, no fishes. not using co2 coz mya parents are against as it blasted.


----------



## Sharkfood (May 2, 2010)

Gluteraldehyde isn't good for any animal. It is beneficial to plants in low concentration, but will melt anything in a concentrated enough solution. I've melted sword leaves when spot dosing.

It's famous for melting Vals, but I don't know about mosses.

It's very effective for spot dosing algae however.


----------



## guppygolucky (Nov 9, 2009)

Isn't glutaraldehyde the active ingredient in Excel. Don't people dose it in their planted and shrimp tanks?


----------



## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

From what I read, excel is roughly 2.5% polycyclogluteracetal by weight. 

You're actually making something closer to API's CO2 Booster which is a 1.6% solution of gluteraldehyde in water. You should be able to make a 1/15th dilution of your 25% solution (1 part of your solution to 14 parts water) and it ought to work just fine. Dosing according to their instructions is 1 mL per 40 liters daily. I've been using this product in conjunction with DIY CO2 and have seen a significant difference in the growth of my plants and things like pearling in the afternoon/evening. It hasn't bothered any of my shrimp.

Take care with the 25% solution. The 1.6% solution is nothing to laugh about, but it takes less than a mouthful of the stronger stuff to kill a child. (LD50 for gluteraldehyde is only 134 mg/kg, so roughly 10mL of the 25% solution would be enough to kill 50% of 20kg children who swallowed it.) It's also fairly nasty stuff on your skin and inhaled. Like many things, it's perfectly safe if used and stored properly, but it's fairly awful if not.



guppygolucky said:


> Isn't glutaraldehyde the active ingredient in Excel. Don't people dose it in their planted and shrimp tanks?


More or less, excel contains polycyclogluteracetal, basically polymerized gluteraldehyde. I imagine it's a stability issue, both in the tank and in the bottle. In any case, if you spray it onto the plants it can cause problems, and it's reasonably toxic stuff.


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

I've been dosing 2-3 mL of Metricide 14, once a day, in a tank slam full of red cherry shrimp, a few Crystal Reds, lots of dwarf saggitaria and LOTS of subwassertang. 

The tank holds maybe 8 actual gallons of water.

Everyone told me the subwassertang would melt. 

Nope. 

It grows for me just fine. 


Start your dosing slow. Stop increasing the dosage if you see any signs of deterioration you don't like.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

wel can i grow all plants using just glut.? i no longer have pressurized co2 as it blasted and my parents arnt allowing.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

what will be the ratio for me to dilute as im getting glut. 25%


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

in msds its polycycloglutaracetal not glutaraldehyde.


----------



## chiefroastbeef (Feb 14, 2011)

You can try it in a shrimp tank, but expect to easily kill them. Back when I dosed Excel, the shrimp wouldn't survive in my tanks, I've tried 5 times, each time around 10 shrimp or so, each time, they would all disappear within a week.

Finally I tried again for the sixth time, without diy co2 or excel, and after 4 months, I have 80+ shrimp now in my 17 gallon. 

I wouldn't risk putting glut/excel in the tank, you may start with minimal amounts and all is well, but eventually you will get greedy and start to increase the dose in hopes of "helping" the plants, before you know it, you've killed the shrimps.


----------



## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

I lost nearly all shrimp in a 3g using Metricide.

I've also killed 4 BNP's in my 90 after spraying it on a couple pieces of exposed driftwood during a WC. 4 BNP in the tank along with at least 35 cory cats. Only the BNP perished. It's strong stuff and I'm done with it for in tank use.


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

I guess we'll all just have to experiment, or not take the risk. 

I've had no shrimp deaths and I do have a bristlenose ancistrus in my 45g tank which gets about 10-15mL per day of Metricide 14.


BTW most folks consider polycylcoglutaracetal to be roughly the same thing as glutaraldehyde. Folks get about the same results as long as the concentration/dosage is kept in mind.


----------



## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

I think my problem in the 90g was a combination of things.
• Spraying more in the tank than I thought I was
• Water level was really low at the time
• Spent some time after the spraying cleaning the glass, filter intakes and center brace

So the fish sat in the water with the stuff dripping down and there was zero circulation.

The 3g may have been an overdose since it wouldn't take much for that to happen.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

diluting a 25% highest concentration. i also want to know that can i grow high light plants like glossostigma too? as im not using pressurised co2 because my parents are not allowing since it blasted at night 2am. iv had success with all plants mosses before. i have seen people abroad soding only flourish excel and graoing all dam plants even under metal halides. since flourish excel is not always available here, the ingridient is glut. thats what seachem declared in MSDS. glut is actually a source that plants extract from co2 for photosinthesys. please let me know if anyone has grown everything successful using only glut.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

any comments on this?
heres a link who has grown everything using just glut and no co2:
http://aquapetz.blogspot.com/


----------



## Capncrunch7 (Aug 11, 2010)

I have used Excel, and I have had plants and shrimp die on me, but I have never had any reason to suspect that the former caused the latter.


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

I dose only glut on my tanks, no CO2. 

Both also have LEDs and only occasionally get fertz.

One tank, everything grows wonderfully. 

The other tank, everything grows much slower, but it grows. Oddly, the light is brighter in this tank than in the other tank (according to the PAR meter on the substrate). But if I drop light levels, plants start to deteriorate. And---- we're talking about largely the same plants. Beats me lol!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 17, 2008)

nanomania said:


> in msds its polycycloglutaracetal not glutaraldehyde.


Chemists will tell you that polycycloglutaracetal is a made up name.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

redfishsc said:


> I dose only glut on my tanks, no CO2.
> 
> Both also have LEDs and only occasionally get fertz.
> 
> ...


do u have shrimps in tha tank too? how much do u add? or do u make a diluted solution? please help me in making a diluted solution as i have 2 30gal 1 15gal and 1 1.5gal. i only keep shrimps and moss and a few carpet plants coz i breed them so no fish.


----------



## jasonpatterson (Apr 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Chemists will tell you that polycycloglutaracetal is a made up name.


It is clumsy name and I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but I'm really surprised that they invented a name and used it on their MSDS. That's kinda asking for a lawsuit, I should think.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

lol. yeah, my family business is pharmasuticals and even they have never heard of this product and i also have an 8 volume set of books on all chemicals in this world and even they dint have it. hahaha.


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

nanomania said:


> do u have shrimps in tha tank too? how much do u add? or do u make a diluted solution? please help me in making a diluted solution as i have 2 30gal 1 15gal and 1 1.5gal. i only keep shrimps and moss and a few carpet plants coz i breed them so no fish.



I do have shrimp and they still reproduce. The shrimp will be coming out soon so I can use the tank to breed some Apistogramma cacatuoides though.



I dose about 2ml of Metricide 14 per day. I don't remember the concentration of Metricide 14 off hand and I'm on my way to work (not texting while driving though lol!), so I can't do the math at the moment.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

redfishsc said:


> I do have shrimp and they still reproduce. The shrimp will be coming out soon so I can use the tank to breed some Apistogramma cacatuoides though.
> 
> 
> 
> I dose about 2ml of Metricide 14 per day. I don't remember the concentration of Metricide 14 off hand and I'm on my way to work (not texting while driving though lol!), so I can't do the math at the moment.


Whats the size of ur tank? u got moss too? herez what i have:


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

Sorry, my bad. It's roughly 8-10 gallons. 

I also put in 10mL in a 45g tank. 

BUT Metricide 14 is WAY WAY WAY less concentrated than what you have. You have 25%. 


Metricide 14 is only 2.6%. 


So if you put in about 104 ml of the 25% stuff into 1,000mL of distilled water, you'd have about a 2.6% solution.

From there you could probably follow my dosing schedule (slowly increasing the dose to this level!).

Basically 2mL per 10g.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

jasonpatterson said:


> From what I read, excel is roughly 2.5% polycyclogluteracetal by weight.
> 
> You're actually making something closer to API's CO2 Booster which is a 1.6% solution of gluteraldehyde in water. You should be able to make a 1/15th dilution of your 25% solution (1 part of your solution to 14 parts water) and it ought to work just fine. Dosing according to their instructions is 1 mL per 40 liters daily. I've been using this product in conjunction with DIY CO2 and have seen a significant difference in the growth of my plants and things like pearling in the afternoon/evening. It hasn't bothered any of my shrimp.
> 
> ...


Well that means 1ml of glut (25%) to 14ml water, that makes 15ml solution which will work for 15days, as mine is 90l so for me will work for 7 days, correct? but what if i dose 0.25ml of glut(25%) directly into the tank??


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

redfishsc said:


> Sorry, my bad. It's roughly 8-10 gallons.
> 
> I also put in 10mL in a 45g tank.
> 
> ...


 Can you show me how did u calculate that? im very bad at math. i just added a drop in my 9l nano tank to see what happens, it just has a beta, hairgrass and some java, and toooooo much algae as i dont change water, just topup but today i changed before putting glut, changed 70%.


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

nanomania said:


> Can you show me how did u calculate that? im very bad at math. i just added a drop in my 9l nano tank to see what happens, it just has a beta, hairgrass and some java, and toooooo much algae as i dont change water, just topup but today i changed before putting glut, changed 70%.



Sure. And hopefully someone will correct me if something is wrong. I'm a theology specialist, not math :icon_roll


To find out how to make a (roughly) 2.6% solution, so that you can dose the same I dose (2ml per 10g), here is how I got it. 


Starting with a 25% solution, and using a super-easy amount of water to mix it in (1,000mL) for easy math. Here's how it works. 



"X" is the amount of your glut bottle to add......... (0.25) represents your glut's concentration.......... (0.026 represents the final 2.6% solution after you mix it up). 

Thus you get this equation, and solve for X.

0.25x / 1000mL = 0.026 

Or restated, 

X= (0.026*1000mL)/0.25

Which equals 104mL. Thus you add the 104 mL of your 25% glut to 1,000mL of distilled water, and you have a crude 2.6% solution, which will replicate the Metricide 14. 



All that being said, I'm sure I way overcomplicated the math the same way Don Quixote overcomplicated fighting a windmill lol!


----------



## kuro (May 21, 2010)

add 104 ml of 25% glut and than fill it with distill water to 1000 ml so 896ml of distill water and 104 ml of 25% glut.


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

kuro said:


> add 104 ml of 25% glut and than fill it with distill water to 1000 ml so 896ml of distill water and 104 ml of 25% glut.


Point well taken. 

The final solution needs to end at 1,000mL. So use 896 mL of distilled water, and there is your final 2.6% solution. Don't fret a few mL of distilled water, your equipment may just be easier to measure out a nice rounded 900.

Starting with 1,000mL instead of 896mL would not have hurt anything except to make a slightly weaker solution.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

redfishsc said:


> Sure. And hopefully someone will correct me if something is wrong. I'm a theology specialist, not math :icon_roll
> 
> 
> To find out how to make a (roughly) 2.6% solution, so that you can dose the same I dose (2ml per 10g), here is how I got it.
> ...


 well so if i want to make API CO2 booster, that holds 1.6% glut then would it be like this:
1000ml*0.016/0.25 = 64

so 64ml glut. 25% in 1000ml water. is that correct?


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

That looks just right to me!


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

I edited my first equation, I had it flipped. But the one you used is accurate, the second equation. 

The first one should read

0.25X / 1000mL = 0.026


----------



## Bandit1200 (Dec 11, 2010)

I don't dilute the Metricide 14, it seemed like a waste of time to me to add water to the stuff I'm adding to water... Anyway, I've been dosing up to 15 ml a day into my 29 gallon to try and knock down some bba. The only thing I've noticed is some of the snails dying off and that's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as they don't all die at once. There are no shrimp in this tank yet, but it's full of java moss and several vals as well. I've seen no issues with either of mine at this dosage, just the bba slowy melting away.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

well what is have is a concentrated 25% glut., metricide is way less. so i needed to dilute. im from a country where i dont get metricide.


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

I don't dilute Metricide 14 either, it's quite easy to dose.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

hey, in what water should i dilute it? normal tapwater or a good filtered water? i have a water purifier which has RO, UV, Carbon and tds controler all in 1 filter, i use it for my marine and drinking water.


----------



## redfishsc (Aug 29, 2010)

Definitely use the filtered water. 

I'm not sure what effect tapwater might have on glut. 

It's possible that any chloramine in the tap could wreck havoc on the glut, but if you dechlorinate it, the dechlorinator might also mess with the glut.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

k then, just got a good lab grade 1000ml bottle, gona make my own diluted glut. from 25% to 1.6%. (800ml (distilled water) x 0.016/0.25 = 51ml(25%glut.)) so total ill make 850ml. Any last final suggestions or thoughts? or should i just go ahead.


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

is this ok finally?


----------



## firefiend (Sep 3, 2009)

Here is an excel based calculator put together by SeattleAquarist. Simple to use.

Glut Calculator


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

firefiend said:


> Here is an excel based calculator put together by SeattleAquarist. Simple to use.
> 
> Glut Calculator


 link is not opening


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

just found out this thread, check the last post, its a glut. calculator in xls format. :
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/74784-making-excel.html


----------



## nanomania (Jul 19, 2011)

well iv finally made my diluted glut. solution. 1.5% like excel.


----------

