# 3'X14''X18'' Hi Tech ADA Style Planted Tank



## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

3X14X18

Some pics of the ADA products I'll be working with 










I was working on some layouts tonight and came up with the following



















thinking of going with this one










im not happy that the wood is so light, but in a few months it will become very dark.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

And now I started adding soils :/

Add ADA powders









Add Powersand









Add Duplarit G then cover with Aquasoil









Wah lah









Setup some equipment, alah test run of lily pipes, clear tubing, co2 mock setup. Still need to find a good diffuser or reactor...


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## MrJG (Feb 21, 2007)

mmmm sweet setup. That wood piece is awesome! Can't wait to see the progression of the tank.


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## RedIrocZ-28 (Oct 24, 2006)

Sweet Jesus that must be a typo! 3'x14'x18' ?! 

 

Looks good so far.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

I think i learned a valuable lesson since keeping tanks for a long time and rushing many things, is that the longer you wait to get everything you need, to nicer the finished product tends to be, or at least the maintainence becomes less with upfront planning.

This tank has taken nearly a month to gather all the parts and I'm not even there yet (lights to come)

Anyway I would like to riff a little about ADA soils 

* ADA Soils *

*Powders (Bacter 100, clear super, penac W, tourmaline and bacter ball)*

To be honest I was a little skeptical at first like many people would be that the powders would help.

However, I think that they will help seed the substrate with what it needs to mature faster. There is definitely a thought process going on behind this, Tom Barr and many others have riffed on the fact that mature substrates are much better than new substrates, and if I can get bacterial colonies started earlier, then I am all for it.

In anycase, I will give it a go for this tank, and hopefully my substrate can mature faster.

*Powersand *

I read that you don't need this, but after spreading it out on the ground, I think everyone should get this as a bottom layer substrate, I think it is a concentrated fertiliser, mixed with pumice and peat. I feel alot more comfortable knowing I have a long term fertiliser down there, and you don't need that much I only used a 2l bag. Note I also added some Duplarit G I had lying around to add some iron to the substrate.

To those who use just aquasoil, power to them, but I have always believed in giving plants access to highly fertilised substrate below the main substrate.. whether this has been my own DIY mix, clay balls or Tetra initial sticks I think this is one reason i have always had crypts thrive.

*Aquasoil *

It's not as crumbly as I expected, it is quite a firm bunch of soil bits, I would definitely not be pressing on it all the time, but i can't imagine it losing its form in years to come

It smells like real earth which is something new, and it looks really natural,

I definitely recommend it, after considering eco complete, flourite, plain gravel and mixing my own, for the look and the results of others, I think aquasoil will be the winner.

I think people have to be careful with aquasoil though (and those that have stuffed up with it i think weren't careful and used it like gravel, which i stress, it is NOT) and follow the following tips:

a) Spray water on the top layer a few hours before planting to prevent the top layer floating.
b) fill water up to top of the aquasoil before planting
c) spread newspaper all over the bottom before filling up the tank to prevent any movement.


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## KDahlin (Mar 12, 2007)

Slipper Little Suckers??! Anyhow, I like your driftwood arrangement. What plants are you planning?


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## SOLOMON (Nov 19, 2006)

I like your lily pipes! Ive been interested in trying out ADA too, cant afford it at the moment, maybe my next tank. Your not going to buy a ceramic diffusor? would complete the ada look. Good Luck looking forward to seeing some updates


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Hi guys, 

Solomon : Yes I'm going to get a rhinox I think  
KDahlin: Slippery little suckers is a LFS in Sydney that sells ADA and some pretty cool plants 

*Design elements of the hardscape*

I want to speak a little about how i ended with the hardscape that I chose.

I have always used triangles and the golden ratio in my designs, and hopefully I can explain how I came up with this one.

I will also post a copy of one of my design articles in the main ADA forums.










If you initially look at my tank, the wood does not fit the general 3/5th golden ratio rule, however it does have triangles and it is assymetrical which gives the viewer instant complexity in the aquascape. Depth is initially hard to create in the hardscape, and it is a collaboration of variations in height of substrate, hardscape and clever plant selection and pruning that allows perspective and depth to be created.

Anyway back to the harscape. in point no. 1 I've created a point 3/5th of the way along but _ in the open_ part of the tank, I then create it again 2/5th of the way in on the left hand side in the wooded area. 

A triangle is then created between all the focal points at varying heights, now in this photo the height is actually a little too stagnant, which is why i have an arrow next to point 1 where i will actually move the branch slightly lower when i fill the tank.

I'll riff more on triangles and golden ratios when i start planting 

I think one of my biggest challenges will be to use the 14" width to the maximum, in the past all my planted tanks have been a minimum of 18" wide (which i recommend to anyone starting a tank!)


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

i said let there be light and there was.



















getting closer to water


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## jeffboyarrdee (Aug 25, 2004)

im very excited to see this


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

this is a cabinet i built for my 2X18 which is destined to become a open top planted tank (when funds permit, as lights + substrate are expensive things!)

however what I'm showing here is are the filter's i'm seeding that will be going on the 3fter.. plants and ferts arriving tomorrow.

here is another shot of the cabinet.










interior shot









im getting quite attached to the tank, as it's almost like i've 'grown up' in the world of planted tanks.. and hopefully this will be successful. I have to get my water fert dosing right through because in the past I have always just 'underdosed' and used low light


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

im very very tired.. it took about 5 hours.

post my comments soon


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## Green Leaf Aquariums (Feb 26, 2007)

Good stuff,


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## SOLOMON (Nov 19, 2006)

Looks great! where'd you get your plants from?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

tank day 1. no i didnt photochop this pic, its as clear as day, i don't know WHY people are bad mouthing aquasoil.. I didn't even fill and refill, just 1 fill of water... this was taken while adding shrimp more on that later too!!

plants are from a variety of places, ebay/aquagreen/slippery little sucker, I'll pm you details


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

this is a post I had on another forum explaning why I don't think I will have an algae problem (unless the ammonia continues to ring alarm bells)

I hope tom can add his 2 pieces to this discussion 

i've dropped the temp from 26 to 24.. I agre with you on the temp.. btw how do you keep your temps down in malaysia? do you keep your tanks indoors/in aircon? 

I've added around 30 stems of rotala mexicana since that last pic and some more hygrophila polysperma, I'm actually quite happy with the plant load atm, 

roughly speaking I'm going to be keeping my nutrients in the following range (following rexgrigg/ei etc) 

nitrates - 10-20ppm, atm its around 10, and I intend on keeping it down 
potassium - ~20ppm 
phosphate - 1-2 ppm 

You mention aquasoil is rich in nutrients, but I actually would disagree with you, giving it 24 hours to 'absorb' my water had only 0.5ppm phosphates and nearly no nitrates. 

I initially when I first started keeping plants thought the same as you Kev, that stuffing the plants full at the start of the tank would reduce algal blooms, but I now realise it's to do with equillibrium and reducing the key indicators that lead to algal blooms. I first suspected this was possible when I saw Amano's tanks being created in his new 'style' with the decorative sand, which restricts a huge amount of space for stem plants to grow. Then I noticed lots of other hobbyists doing it. 

I suspect the initial algae you are talking about is caused by NH4 being leeched without a sufficient filtration system to turn it to nitrate, I was very surprised to see the ammonia had gone up to 2-3ppm within a night. Algae thrives in an environment of NH4 and Phosphate (see below for explanation), 

This worried me alot, and I was actually prepared for the aquasoil to leech some ammonia anyway, so I had fluidized bed filter that I had been running in tandem on another tank ready to switch over to... today I measured and had some nitrite, so i think there is *some* bacterial activity, but not as much as I expected, and may mean I will hook up a 2211 to it tonight. 

Anyway I expect little to no algae outbreak due to the following factors: 
* using submersed grown plants, whose leaves will a) not die off and b) be actively photosynthesing and surviving in water. 
* 50% water changes every 3-5 days 
* equillibrium between light, co2 and nutrients (balance of NPK and trace in the water) 
* use of established biological filters 
* use of otos (when ammonia drops down abit) 
* use of algae shrimp - Caridinia longistrosis 
* filtration with purigen 

In regards to ammonia uptake, and why I think it causes algal blooms and is bad compared to NO3 uptake in higher level plants, I'll let Tom Barr do the talking (i actually just searched it just then, I knew in my head its bad, but didnt know the science, so here it is ) : 

' NH4 needs 8 less electrons to be incorporated into 
> Glutamine than NO3. 
> This means it takes less energy. That does not mean a lot 
> to a large plant 
> with plenty of storage space and enzymes already in place 
> to the same 
> degree it does to small single celled algal spore.' 

and 

'> If you add the bacteria or a cycled filter, or also add a 
> lot of 
> plants(over stuff the tank), you also get the same result 
> as an established 
> tank.' 


http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200504/msg00069.html 

All the plants came in with some small amounts of various alga on them, so we will see how they fare. 

I could be all wrong and I might be staring at a green soup, hair algae mess in a week let's see, this is a learning experience for me dealing with high light and high ferts, in the past I could only theorise as I always 'under lit' and 'under dosed' my tanks to prevent algae (and back in 1999, dosing ammonia was considered the bleeding edge of fertilisation... now we know it's *ahem* not so good!)


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Anyway onto another 'topic' now 

* Dosing *

As mentioned above i need to keep my nutrients within a certain range, and this includes dosing nitrates, phosphates (!) and potassium (the most important and most scarce as it is not really 'converted' from any waste going into the tank or from fish!)

So I give you my dry and wet dosing (courtesy of Dave @ Aquagreen):










I have calculated the ferts and the ppm it will move 35 gallons of water (which I have calculated my tank less substrate + wood equals, or 'guesstimated'), and can now dose by the ml or the gram!


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## PeteyPob (Apr 26, 2004)

Looks great! Looking forward to the fill in


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## CJ (Plant Freak) (Jun 1, 2007)

Good start...


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

I've always said "excess: (that faceless nameless concentration level that is oft talked about, oddly seldom measured :icon_roll ) PO4 NO3 and Fe do not induce algae etc.

NH4 is another matter.
Light and CO2 also factor into this as well.
As they rise, so does uptake of NH4, however, it can really screw up the entire cycle and feedback if the CO2 slips, or you get a dramatic pulse of NH4.
In the initial stages, some NH4 is fine.

The ADA As is namely NH4 based in terms of total N, some organic N. The clay balls are hard to leach out, the clay effectively seals most of the NH4 inside.

So you get some aerobic NH4->NO3 and direct leaching into the water column.

After say 1 month, this stops.
Amano tells folks to do frequent, (more than once a week, typically 2-3 x a week) water changes. If you do this many water changes(50% each time or more), you can add NH4. I do not think this is wise for fish.
You can add Zeolite and.or activated carbon, (Amano does some of this as well).

So you have the sealed NH4 locked inside a semisoft clay, that roots can get to.

Powersand on the other hand does not have much NH4.
It does however have a lot NO3.

NO3 is highly mobile in all aquatic systems and moves and leaches.
There is flow in/out of all sediments, it a few days it's going to leach out.

Nothing you can do to stop it.
Cable folks? It'll just leach out that much faster.



1.Adding more and more plants to a new tank: more and more NH4 removed if you have good CO2/light and other nutrients.

That reduces NH4.

2.Likewise, adding zeolite does the same and fosters bacteria colonies which also reduce, transform NH4 to NO3.

Reduces NH4 

3. Water changes: obviously reduces NH4 and algae spores

Reduces NH4.

See a pattern?

Now, go back and add NH4: get algae?

No/Yes?

If no:

Try destabilizing CO2 + adding NH4.

If no still: add more light.

You'll get algae in one of those senarios or you should.

Repeat with NO3, PO4, Fe etc.
No algae.

Garden Soil also does a similar thing, treated with boiling or 3 weeks of soaking in a shallow tray: no NH4 and no algae bloom.

The pattern is wide ranging and applies to virtually every system involving plants.

Try pulling up a lot of detritus and over "pruning". This dramatically affects the NH4 uptake(reduces the NH4 uptake allowing more to remain in the water column). It can also pull up lots of algae spores and exposure them to the light as well as pull up some slow decomposing organic N sources that can release NH4.

If you do a water change(see the mitigation above) and stay on top of that, no algae, or if you add zeolite: no algae.
If you do nothing, 1-2 days later algae starts.

Now try this with adding progressively more and more fish and see how many it takes to destabilize things and get an algae bloom.

Again, same pattern.

The overwhelming evidence has never pointed to NO3 and PO4, yet many like to say that's the problem. Even when shown the evidence, and test and data, somehow they warp reality and still contend that excess NO3 and PO4, ADA among them, is bad for fish and causes algae.

No mention of the most lethal toxic forms of N, NH4/NH3 curiously:icon_excl 

Note: when adding NH4, realize it gets goggled up as fast as it's produced in most systems. So it's very tough to measure it unless you dose it.
If that's a wide range due to light and CO2 variations.

Most aquarists cannot measure their light anyway, few have a PAR light meter. Many cannot measure CO2 effectively as well.

They can measure PO4 and NO3, those can have issues as well, but they can at least get some correlation there, but they also attempt to lay cause with that data, which........is falsifiable. 

You likely will not run into algae, but light is a huge variable for many, CO2 is the next, nutrients on the other hand.........they are small potatoes, yet oddly everyone focuses so much on those and lays blame on them for nearly everything.

Do the frequent water changes, good bacterial, tending the tank etc.

Those have a profound affect.





Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Excellent post Tom, as always!

I noticed Aquasoil over the first 2 days of the tank has raised the NH4 levels from 0 to 2-3ppm on day one, to beyond calculable (6-7PPM) and above!

I added zeolite and have done a water change now, and redosed trace/P and K.

NO3 leeching out is fine, its keeping steady at 10ppm.

now lets see if i can use the basics - frequent water changes, good bacterial, tending the tank etc. and we will see how it all goes!




plantbrain said:


> NH4 is another matter.
> Light and CO2 also factor into this as well.
> As they rise, so does uptake of NH4, however, it can really screw up the entire cycle and feedback if the CO2 slips, or you get a dramatic pulse of NH4.
> In the initial stages, some NH4 is fine.
> ...


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Lookin good. I'm anti-ADA because I don't have it nor can I afford any of it, lol. My rimless finnex will have to suffice for my envy of the aesthetic beauty of ADA products.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

ADA is lovely 

Still have amounts of ammonia, doing 60% water changes once every 2 days. some traces of hair algae, going to sick some otos onto itsoon


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## Harsh (Jan 14, 2007)

looking good.:thumbsup:


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## chaser (Feb 21, 2006)

Nice tank there champ


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

hrmm a few notes

- the rotala macrantha is starting to twist leaves, indicating possible K over dose or calcium underdose otherwise plants are travelling well

starting get lots of thread algae.. which im somewhat worried about... is there a way to quickly dispatch of it?


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## jeffboyarrdee (Aug 25, 2004)

well the twirling and twisting of stem plants, especially rotalas are because of prime. Sometimes prime makes plants twist and grow all funky. i stick with amquel for planted tanks. And the thread algae could be easilly take care of by amano shrimp and manual maintainence and after a period of time it becomes under control and hardly ever comes back.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

jeffboyarrdee said:


> well the twirling and twisting of stem plants, especially rotalas are because of prime. Sometimes prime makes plants twist and grow all funky. i stick with amquel for planted tanks. And the thread algae could be easilly take care of by amano shrimp and manual maintainence and after a period of time it becomes under control and hardly ever comes back.


Jeff- no amano shrimp in Australia, there are about 20 Caridinia longistrosis though, an australian algae eating shrimp, i dont think its as good as amano shrimp though?

oh that is really interestig to know about prime! i might go check out amquel!

time for another update 



















still battling thread algae, 50% water changes every 2 days added cherry barbs and otos


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

*Aquasoil/Powersand Review *

First things first.

I am loving the aquasoil it is hands down the *best* substrate i have ever used... And I have used THE LOT (kitty litter, topsoil, potting mix (!!), vermiculite, tetra initial sticks, tetra hilena, gravel, sand, anything you can imagine!)

* it looks like real soil and has a great great colour :twisted: 
* it is light and allows proper root growth which is a real breath of fresh air
* it is EASY to plant in, stick in tweezers, let soil fall into place, pull tweezers out carefully, no more crushing roots and #[email protected]#ing around with gravel. no more floaters (if you are careful!)
* did i mention it looks awesome?
* I feel that over the long term, the powersand may provide a plenum filtration action and long term fertilisation.

here is a testament to it's ability - i give you 11 day old glosso bed










To be honest I do not think I will ever choose another substrate to use.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

thanks scott 

4 days later
(repruned the rotala, stargrass, some stray hygro (which i want to replace soon with rotala sp. green *hint if anyone has some for trade), halved the hemianthus and replanted)

I won't have too much time to update as I am currently trying to build my career










i know the co2 diffuser looks ugly there but its in direct path of the outflow, and i cant put the outflow on the other side as it beats down on the stem plants


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## CherylH (Jan 2, 2007)

Your tank makes me think of a meadow at the edge of a forest. It looks great.


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

thanks cheryl that means alot  being able to evoke a feeling of place or a time or a feeling is important in any aquascape, and that is what makes them unique and different. 

update: I've pruned twice so it doesnt like much has chnged, but diandra has been moved to more light, more fish added, and messed with tubes


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

i actually let the plants starve for a little while to deal with some nutrient problems, i think its VERY evident in the macrantha... i think macrantha need high levels of nutrients, N and P particularly (well compared to other plants!)


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)




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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

why did you rip off the glosso carpet?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

ikuzo said:


> why did you rip off the glosso carpet?


glosso grows too fast


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

The tonina's look great. Is that HC?


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

jaidexl said:


> The tonina's look great. Is that HC?


it sure is

in australia we pay $50 for a 2X2cm carpet


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## PasD (Sep 2, 2006)

Your old scape looks good, but it will look better when the hc grows out.


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## ikuzo (Jul 11, 2006)

that is so expensive. here we pay 10x10cm only for $2  planting it individually will spread faster.


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## ebichu (Mar 22, 2007)

ikuzo said:


> that is so expensive. here we pay 10x10cm only for $2  planting it individually will spread faster.


Oh yeah man, here everything is so expensive.

I miss Jakarta, especially the price there


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Back in October










Now



















I've always gone for a sustainable aquascape and plant husbandry and it's paid off... I prune every 6 to 8 weeks, and go for over 3 weeks without water changes to no detriment. I think there is a place for high tech high maintainence tanks, but for me it is more enjoyable to sit back and watch it grow


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

nornicle said:


> i actually let the plants starve for a little while to deal with some nutrient problems, i think its VERY evident in the macrantha... i think macrantha need high levels of nutrients, N and P particularly (well compared to other plants!)


Another way is to simply use less light, this reduces the demand rate and thus you can run things leaner (if you so chose), I've never had issues with R mac unless I allowed things to get too lean.

Another method is use ADA AS, it offers some back up in case you forget to dose etc or go on VACATION. At least you do not need to dose as much this way. Add some decent fish biomass, mostly algae eaters and the main fish, then + lower light, you have far more wiggle room.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

nornicle said:


> glosso grows too fast


It's a weed
HC is as well, but not as bad.
Hairgrass is a good solution for your tank.
It can be mowed and is not as invasive.
It's also easier to maintain a nice front edge than with gloss which piles and piles like HC, Utric and a few others.

Give that weedy grass a cut.
Just like grass.
It will grow back, keep it 3-5 cm tall, slope from front to back.
You can also pull the sediment back away from the front of the glass.
That will help the look also.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

Tom, 

My light is a single 96watt CF, which is actually quite low, I find this is the limiting factor in my success with some plants (note the lack of red on the rotala and the HC that died away, it was shadowed ou by crypts/wood and grass)

I agree with you on AS I use AS and I find that I can go longer between dosing, however I do notice some leaf deterioration (i think its calcium deficiency, our water is very soft here)

I also agree with the harir grass, I will give it a cut next time im willing to deal with the fall out (hair EVERYWHERE!!)

I've actually gone on vacation for 2 weeks at a time with just feeding sparsely ... I've managed to reach a level of stability i like, however I haven't reached the levels yourself or the senske brothers have... 

One day when I feel I have the inclination I might give truly high light a go, I've just seen so many awesome aquascapes go to waste when not well maintained well or managed (e.g. Scolley going on holidays, or even this tank or even Unirda's new stuff) It seems to have a low maintainence high tech tank requires either alot of fore thought on automation, DIY or lots of physical maintainence. 

After trying my hand at even a low tech 6X2.5, no future tank of mine will exceed 4X20"...


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

the tank as part of daily life (my friend on the ps3... and my dog Soxie)


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

oh btw thanks Tom for the EI method, It's a great tool for 'set and forget' and then adjusting by observation rather than by becoming overly concerned with the chemistry, I'll leave that up to the propeller heads like your good self!


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Great tank Nornicle! And great thread! Thanks for sharing.

I love the approach you are taking, and I really like your thoughts on how you planned to hold back the algae scourge. Looks like your planning worked! :thumbsup: 

And it is worth mentioning that you have the side benefit of having one of Tom B's best posts on NH4 that I've seen.

Wow. There are lot's of reasons to subscribe to this thread! Good work, and thanks for sharing!


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

I'm not sure if this is allowed, but it seems useful considering all the information here..

the tank is up for *offer* as an entire package (everything you've seen me put into it, plants, fish, inverts, wood, filters, heaters, dupla co2, lights, tank, cabinet etc)

Please call me 0412 588 389 - pickup from Chatswood, Sydney, *Australia *, I will help you pack the plants and the fish..
Richard


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## nornicle (Dec 29, 2003)

the tank is up for offer as an entire package (everything you've seen me put into it, plants, fish, inverts, wood, filters, heaters, dupla co2, lights, tank, cabinet etc)

Lighting: 96watt 6700k CF AH Supply - comes with 2 spare 96watt CF bulbs worth $30 ea. (another 3 yrs+ worth of light)

Fertilisation: Dry dosing + seachem flourish

Substrate: FULL ADA (!) Aquasoil (2X 9litre), Powersand and 5 substrate powders.

Co2: Dupla 750gram bottle, Dupla Delta regulator, Dupla Magnetic Solenoid, ceramic diffuser, Dupla bubble counter

Heating: Hydor ETH inline 300 watt

Filtration: Eheim 2217 with Cal Aqua Lab Lily pipes and clear tubing

Plants: Christmas moss, hairgrass, narrow leaf chainsword, Rotala macarantha, Didiplis diandra, Crypt sp., Crypt balansae

Fish: Lots! 2 X Apistogramma inridae 1 X Microgeophagus ramirezi ~11 Harlequin rasbora, 4 rummynose, 4 cardinals, 1 glass bloodfin, 10+ Endler guppies, 2m 4f neon rainbows, 3 pearl danios, bristlenose, algae eating shrimp, 1 hastatus cory, 2m 1f cherry barbs, 1m1f honey blue eyes.

It's a quality setup looking for a quality price, otherwise I'll slowly break it down and sell the parts 


Richard


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## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Try posting on Aquariumlife forum or some of the other local Oz forums.
Also, the moss looks a little CO2 starved.

Regards, 
Tom barr


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## lastlaughfoundation (Feb 19, 2008)

beautiful tank! thanks for all the pictures and updates!


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## jaidexl (Sep 18, 2006)

Great looking tank :thumbsup: 

Nornicle, whats' your experience w/ the glass bloodfins, have you kept them for long? I'm trying to find first hand experience that can confirm or discount some things I've read about their hardness requirements. I assumed it was a soft water fish but have read otherwise, and one site (not one I tend to trust to say the least) states they can turn white and die off in very soft water.

I just nabbed 10 for 99¢ a piece


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## rwong2k (Dec 24, 2004)

any updates on this tank? looks really great


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## eyebeatbadgers (Aug 6, 2007)

Judging by the last two posts from the guy, I'd say he sold it!:redface:


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