# Plants



## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

So my plants never seem to do all that well; they grow very slowly and, for my cabomba and foxtail, the bottoms always seem to die off and I'm left with a long stalk and leaves? (if you can call them that) at the top half of the plant. I only have a 10 watt cfl for my 5 gallon which I read should be sufficient enough for the tank (at least 2-3 wpg right?). Is my light not the right spectrum or something? I was reading about these DIY co2 things around here too. Could it be that theres not enough co2 for the plants? I have some of that liquid fertilizer stuff I put in once a week like it says and I leave my light on for about 8-10 hours per day. What am I doing wrong?
gimme a break too I'm a newbie, just decided to make an account when I was lookin around here for a bit and I started to have a few questions.


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

On a five gallon tank a 10 watter isn't all that bad, maybe upgrade it to a 15W. Also the light bulb should be a certain Kelvin rating, you want one around the 6500K rating, can usually find these in Lowes/Home Depot. Any addition of Co2 or carbon wouldn't hurt. DIY Co2 isn't all that hard to set up just requires more upkeep (In my opinion) because you have to keep replacing the Yeast/sugar/H2O mixture. You mention liquid ferts, but what are they? is it Excel? which is a source of carbon or is it micro nutrients? or Macro nutrients such as: Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphorus?

Oh yes, Welcome to the TPT!


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Chafire said:


> On a five gallon tank a 10 watter isn't all that bad, maybe upgrade it to a 15W. Also the light bulb should be a certain Kelvin rating, you want one around the 6500K rating, can usually find these in Lowes/Home Depot. Any addition of Co2 or carbon wouldn't hurt. DIY Co2 isn't all that hard to set up just requires more upkeep (In my opinion) because you have to keep replacing the Yeast/sugar/H2O mixture. You mention liquid ferts, but what are they? is it Excel? which is a source of carbon or is it micro nutrients? or Macro nutrients such as: Nitrogen, Potassium, Phosphorus?


It says 5100K on the box from the bulb. I dont know if anything bigger would fit in there tho? But I'll try and see. I wouldn't mind the extra work for co2 but I read it wouldn't be as effective if I didn't disperse it throughout the tank, I don't have room, or money, for a powerhead. Is there any better suggestion to go about setting one up that would be better for the tank? All I have is a bottle called leaf zone.

ty I've been meaning to make an account for a bit but I never got around to it.


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

5100k isn't all that bad but I would recommend the 6500k bulb, just more similiar to mimicking daylight, hence why its called a daylight bulb. In a 5 gallon tank there wouldn't really be a need for a powerhead, as long as you have a hang on the back filter you could rig up the DIY co2 so the airline tube entered into the filter intake then the bubbles get broken up by the filter propeller and are dispersed through those means.

I personally have never used leaf zone, this is my first time hearing of it...ahahah. From a quick google glance it seems to mainly contain micro nutrients. Where you also want to be adding macro nutrients. The Seachem line is a nice one and fairly cheap. It all depends on your budget.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Chafire said:


> 5100k isn't all that bad but I would recommend the 6500k bulb, just more similiar to mimicking daylight, hence why its called a daylight bulb. In a 5 gallon tank there wouldn't really be a need for a powerhead, as long as you have a hang on the back filter you could rig up the DIY co2 so the airline tube entered into the filter intake then the bubbles get broken up by the filter propeller and are dispersed through those means.
> 
> I personally have never used leaf zone, this is my first time hearing of it...ahahah. From a quick google glance it seems to mainly contain micro nutrients. Where you also want to be adding macro nutrients. The Seachem line is a nice one and fairly cheap. It all depends on your budget.


The filter is built in to the top, I assume the co2 would still work eh? I'll check out seachem tho, any specific product I should be looking for that would do micro and macro? Oh, and another thing, how much do those lights run usually? Only problem I have is I'm afraid it might not fit in the fixture because it came with one of those tube lookin incandescent lights.


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

Hmmm...Is your tank a fluval one? I was under the assumption it was just a normal CFL bulb. 

Here is the Seachem line on Dr. Foster & Smith..
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3746+12787&pcatid=12787

when I began the adventures of planted tanks this is what I started with and I thought it worked well. I had both the fundamentals kit and enhancer kit. but I think you would be able to get by with just the fundamentals kit.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Chafire said:


> Hmmm...Is your tank a fluval one? I was under the assumption it was just a normal CFL bulb.
> 
> Here is the Seachem line on Dr. Foster & Smith..
> http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3746+12787&pcatid=12787
> ...


Its a marineland. The light is exactly like this.
http://www.pets-warehouse.com/pic-a/AMLPA0419.JPG

also, if they're the same price would it be better to get the enhancer kit?


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

Alrighty so it is a screw in type bulb I was talking about these:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_296889-371-...pl_Lighting+Fans_4294935637__s?Ntt=cfl&page=2

So it would work in your fixture, granted there is enough room to screw it in.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Chafire said:


> Alrighty so it is a screw in type bulb I was talking about these:
> 
> http://www.lowes.com/pd_296889-371-...pl_Lighting+Fans_4294935637__s?Ntt=cfl&page=2
> 
> So it would work in your fixture, granted there is enough room to screw it in.


I see it says 60 watt ... the warning sticker in the fixture says like 15 watt max I believe.


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

It's 60W equivalent, but only uses 15W.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Chafire said:


> It's 60W equivalent, but only uses 15W.


so I'm not limited to 15W bulbs then?
lol I have no idea about all this stuff

btw ty for the awesomely quick responses <3


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

You should be fine with using that bulb I don't think there will be any serious issues.

Hey your welcome!


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Chafire said:


> You should be fine with using that bulb I don't think there will be any serious issues.
> 
> Hey your welcome!


Well now I can happily go to bed.
I just hope the bulb fits when I go and get it.
I'll keep you updated but it probably wont be until Friday when I get a paycheck!
:biggrin:


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm pretty confident that it will, I'll check back to see how it gos.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I would also get some plants more suited for low light like Wisteria and ferns.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Hilde said:


> I would also get some plants more suited for low light like Wisteria and ferns.


I thought I remembered seeing foxtail and cabomba in a post as good low light plants (at least cabomba) I think and that's why I chose them.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I thought I remembered seeing foxtail and cabomba in a post as good low light plants (at least cabomba) I think and that's why I chose them.


Here see Cabomba is medium to high light. Here see Foxtail is medium to high light. The list you read from was not accurate. 

I have tried to grow those 2 in low light, 2 T8s, and not able to do so. The Green Foxtial I can grow in medium light, 3 T8s or 2 T5NO. Wisteria rarely fails me. Got it from Hong Kong in bad shape. Cut plant down to 5-5in stems and it became a bush. It likes potassium nitrate. Ferns and Anubias I have kept in a tank in front of south window.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Well I picked out a wisteria, there were 2 different kinds at my lfs I think? One had more of a broad leaf, and the other was smaller like needles almost but not quite. Either way, they were both marked at hygrophilia something or other. I'll see if I can find a pic, but, while I was there I tested a display model of my tank to see if a reptile CFL would fit in it (I assume they're the same size?) and it doesn't  Won't even screw in straight and it would be touching the metal plate guard thing.


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## redchigh (Apr 10, 2010)

I have cabomba in a 10G with 20W cfl lighting, and it's growing extremely well. I even manage to keep cabomba furcata going strong (although it's green.  ) 

There are the regular and the "mini" cfls- get the minis.

Also, on CFL packaging, you have to kind of look sometimes for the ACTUAL wattage. Most will have 60W in big letters, and off to the side is the 15W actual.

They're labeled that way so that people used to incandescents won't get confused.... a 15W CFL is as bright as a 60W incandescent.

Finally, do not use a reptile CFL. They put out lots of UV light, and are often not the right color spectrum.

Just buy a little daylight cfl at wal mart.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

redchigh said:


> Finally, do not use a reptile CFL. They put out lots of UV light, and are often not the right color spectrum.
> 
> Just buy a little daylight cfl at wal mart.


May work for I forgot some with 10G grow plants I can't in my 29G with the CLF daylight bulbs.
Here are 2 10G tanks using the CFL bulbs.


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## Chafire (Jan 6, 2010)

Its fine if the bulb is touching the metal reflector, as long as it's not touching plastic, can't melt metal with a light bulb.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

redchigh said:


> I have cabomba in a 10G with 20W cfl lighting, and it's growing extremely well. I even manage to keep cabomba furcata going strong (although it's green.  )
> 
> There are the regular and the "mini" cfls- get the minis.
> 
> ...


I know not to use a reptile cfl. The main issue, that you must have over looked, was whether a spiral cfl would fit in my fixture, and it does not--assuming reptile cfls are the same size as a regular one I could purchase from Walmart. 
That being said, I'm glad you mentioned something about mini-cfls. There is still hope then unless what you're talking about is what I already have. I'll have to check this out. Ty


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

*?*

OK, I got the mini sprial CFL. It fits! However, when I plugged it in I noticed it doesn't seem as bright as the other one that I had in there, even tho the other one is a 5100K CFL. I made sure to get a daylight 6500K mini CFL (I had to return to Wal-Mart because I got a soft light 2300K or something by accident), but it still seems like it is not as bright as the straight tube CFL I had in there first. Is this normal? Is it just the different spectrum of lighting that I need from the 6500K or something?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Another option is the mini compact fluorescents. I have seen them at some Pet Smart stores.

Two issues:
Light restrike on compact fluorescent reduces efficiency. A linear tube with a good reflector will have much less restrike than a twisted CFL. So 10W CFL does not necessarily equal 10W linear fluorescent.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Hilde said:


> Another option is the mini compact fluorescents. I have seen them at some Pet Smart stores.
> 
> Two issues:
> Light restrike on compact fluorescent reduces efficiency. A linear tube with a good reflector will have much less restrike than a twisted CFL. So 10W CFL does not necessarily equal 10W linear fluorescent.


I had the linear CFL, it was 5100K. Now I have a mini spiral CFL that's 6500K but like you said, too much restrike, does Walmart have the linear CFLs too or are they more likely to be lfs-specific products? I would really love a 15W linear CFL 6500K bulb if I can find one for a good price.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Should I use the 6500K still or the 5100K?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> Should I use the 6500K still or the 5100K?


That really depends on the plants you get, nutrients in water and substrate I have found. When you don't have the highest quality of light you can help the plants to adjust with nutrients. Some just use the bulbs that are pleasing to the eye. Which do you like the best?

I has asked redchigh whom has 10G with CFLs to join in this conversation. Unfortunately he doesn't have a thread on his tank.



SgtPeppersLHC said:


> My cabomba and foxtail, the bottoms always seem to die off and I'm left with a long stalk and leaves?


Remember now that another had that problem. The answer was to prune the tops when they got top heavy. For when they get top heavy the light can not get to the bottom. I have a similar problem with Stargrass. When the bottom gets black I thin it out. Were the plants top heavy?


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Hilde said:


> That really depends on the plants you get, nutrients in water and substrate I have found. When you don't have the highest quality of light you can help the plants to adjust with nutrients.
> 
> I has asked redchigh whom has 10G with CFLs to join in this conversation. Unfortunately he doesn't have a thread on his tank.


I have a bunch of low light plants. A few Anubias, a Wisteria and a Java fern. Apparently what I have for fertilizer is garbage so now I guess I'll have to order some stuff chafire showed me.

Good point with the top heavy comment I do remember the last one was. I don't like clipping plants but I know I should. How do I know what/when to clip? Do I clip java ferns or anubias too? Will the clippings grow into new plants?
Sry bout the plethera of questions but I would like to start learning how to keep my plants  I know about TPT guide but I plan on getting it maybe for myself for xmas and I would like to save my existing plants now. (I don't have a lot of money right now if I have to buy different fertilizers)


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I have a bunch of low light plants. A few Anubias, a Wisteria and a Java fern.


Those are easy to grow plants.


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> Apparently what I have for fertilizer is garbage so now I guess I'll have to order some stuff chafire showed me.


What ferts do you have? My favorite fert is Brightwell Aquatics Multi. I buy it from LNT, for the shipping is $0 to $3. I think to grow the Cabomba and Foxtail Eco-complete substrate would help. 


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> Good point with the top heavy comment I do remember the last one was.How do I know what to clip? Do I clip java ferns or anubias too?


Java fern and anubias I only remove bad leaves. Wisteria, Cabomba and Foxtail, you cut the top off and plant. Where you cut a fork will develop creating 2 stems.


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> Sorry bout the plethera of questions but I would like to start learning how to keep my plants


Been there. Lost 2 groups of plants.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

*@Hilde*

I forgot to mention I have TMS. Which leads me to another question. Would I be better off mixing in some flourite or am I good with just the TMS?
Also about the light, would you suggest using the 10W 5100K linear CFL or the 13W 6500K mini spiral CFL with more re-strike. Like I said the difference is definitely noticeable to me that the linear appears to be brighter but I wouldn't know if there's a different spectrum of lighting put out by either or something random I don't know about.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I forgot to mention I have TMS.Would I be better off mixing in some flourite or am I good with just the TMS?


Is that Tahitian Moon Sand you are talking about? It has no minerals. I would do El Natural substrate. Use Miracle Grow organic soil then top with the Tahitian Moon Sand. If you have Fluorite put it on the bottom and then the dirt and then the sand. Or use Fluorite on top and forget about the sand. I love the sand look. If your ph is high don't use dolomite as suggested on link on El Natural.

Personally I don't think there is much difference between the 2 bulbs as for as plant growth. Just try the one you like. Best bulb is the mini compact. At LNT $10 and no shipping cost.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Yes black tahiti moon sand.
I have that same style light but its marineland. I checked and my petsmart doesnt have any other like it. Would that be a good price for one of them on that link you showed me? I could just buy it if other PetSmarts around me dont have any.
But no minerals you say? What should I do? Do I need those like tablet things you bury in there? Most of my plants are on DW or lava rock except the wisteria of course and the 1 fern and 3 anubias I have aren't doing as well as I would like. I suppose this would be because my fertilizer was garbage?


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

OK. If I do miracle grow or fluorite, I would have to take out all of the water, remove the sand somehow, and put in the soil and the set everything back up again right?
I wish I knew about this from the start, and if it is truely the best route to take, I will use one of my days off to do this, however, if I could I would love to save one of my days off for relaxing and take an easier route if possible.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> OK. If I do miracle grow or fluorite, I would have to take out all of the water, remove the sand somehow, and put in the soil and the set everything back up again right?
> I wish I knew about this from the start, and if it is truely the best route to take, I will use one of my days off to do this, however, if I could I would love to save one of my days off for relaxing and take an easier route if possible.


Well it is the cheapest way to go. Mix what you have with the dirt so cycle is only mini. Another route is the get API tabs. LNT has them too. 

For Wisteria, anubias and ferns I would just get the Brightwell Multi. Wisteria is a weed. For the foxtail and Combaba best to have substrate with minerals. Crypts you can just use tabs.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Hilde said:


> Well it is the cheapest way to go. Mix what you have with the dirt so cycle is only mini. Another route is the get API tabs. LNT has them too.
> 
> For Wisteria, anubias and ferns I would just get the Brightwell Multi. Wisteria is a weed. For the foxtail and Combaba best to have substrate with minerals. Crypts you can just use tabs.


Lol I wish I knew it was a weed, it kinda takes up a bunch of room in my tank. lol. I kinda wanna stick to plants that grow on things I guess, but do I have to worry about dead water without any rooted plants if I don't churn the sand?

I'm going to order some of the Brightwell I suppose, would it be good for something I plan to get to carpet too? (Either xmas moss, mini pella or just some java moss). Would it be good to get their FluorinAxis Carbon Source too? I was thinking about getting excell and my petsmart doesnt have it, but if the Axis would be the same thing I might as well order it together to save on shipping. Would you know much the 250 mL bottle treats? I want to know what size I should get. I'll order the light too and I'll just return the ones I got or just use them in my house I suppose.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> Lol I wish I knew it was a weed, it kinda takes up a bunch of room in my tank. Do I have to worry about dead water without any rooted plants if I don't churn the sand?


Perhaps you could sell the Wisteria to a member of the Chicago Aquatic Gardeners Association (CAGA), Chicagoland, IL. 

I have never used that sand but it looks like it is very fine thus thinking air pockets could easily escape. If you are worried poke it with a knife weekly. 


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I plan to get to carpet too? (Either xmas moss, mini pella or just some java moss). Would it be good to get their FluorinAxis Carbon Source too?


 xmas moss or mini pella would work. Then there is dwarf hair grass. Here is Tex Gals mini pella. Perhaps it is so big because of injecting Co2. Oh, yes forgot, if you want anything but ferns, moss and weeds to grow need the carbon source. I think 2ml daily would suffice.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

The Wisteria can be trained to stay low by constant pruning.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

@Hilde
You are so awesome 
wow tex's mini pella looks GREAT but I don't have $50 to spare. I would only want a smaller portion so I could watch it fill in (only got the 5 gal remember).
I think I'll try the dwarf hairgrass or maybe HC if I find em for the right price.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Oh hey, so with my anubias it has some algae growing on it, I read I should give it a very diluted bleach bath, what would you say?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> @Hilde
> wow tex's mini pella looks GREAT but I don't have $50 to spare. I would only want a smaller portion so I could watch it fill in (only got the 5 gal remember).
> I think I'll try the dwarf hairgrass or maybe HC if I find em for the right price.


Post a thread on the swap area and someone may give you something. Never know. I have had 3 give me plants. I will keep you in mind for when my moss grows out. Just gave some away, for got a bunch of messy java moss for free at an auction.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> Oh hey, so with my anubias it has some algae growing on it, I read I should give it a very diluted bleach bath, what would you say?


Can you rub it off. If it is just a little I would wait until you get the FluorinAxis Carbon and spray some of it on it. If you do it just dip it in and then to bucket with water with water conditioner in it.

Glad I have been able to help! Just hoping I can help others ovoid costly mistakes. I have made many mistakes that have been costly. Still do! Now my plants are recovering from string, which is probably due to overfeeding. Wouldn't have stayed in this hobby if it weren't for the help of others.

Hope to see a pic of your tank soon. For inspiration click on your tanks tab.

If you upgrade one day check out Craigslist.org. The 20 long you can put clip on lights on.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

I think I could rub the algae off, do you think an acrylic algae pad would hurt the anubias?
I have another question, I have nothing for one of my smaller anubias (2-3") to attach to so I wanted to attach it to a slightly larger anubias (4ish") growing on a piece of lava rock. What can I do? I also have a piece of DW I could attach it to but I cant seem get it to cling on to it.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I think I could rub the algae off, do you think an acrylic algae pad would hurt the anubias?


Anubias are pretty hardy. Perhaps something that can be used on teflon pans.


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I have nothing for one of my smaller anubias (2-3") t What can I do?


You could glue it with super gel to a paper clip.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Hilde;You could glue it with super gel to a paper clip.[/QUOTE said:


> I don't understand? Just right to the base of the rhizome and just bury the paperclip and the tip of the rhizome?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I don't understand? Just right to the base of the rhizome and just bury the paperclip and the tip of the rhizome?


The rhizome usually shouldn't be complete covered. With sand you can cover it a little. I thinking you could glue the plant on top of the clip and bury the clip.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

How would hydrocotyle verticillata do with say HC or some type of slow growing moss?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Is this what your tank looks like?

Recently read that the Brightwell FluorinAxis gets Co2 from Citric acid and Citrate, thus not as strong as Seachem Excell. Seachem Excel melts some plants like vals when dosed at full strength. LNT has Seachem Excel too. 

Hydrocotyle verticillata will work for in can grow in low light. HM needs good amount of Co2 and medium high light. For moss xmas moss is my favorite. Java easier to find but hard to control.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

No I have a 5 hex. Should I get excel then? I do have a corkscrew val. I wish there was a LNT near me 
Are HC and HM the same thing? Either way, I like the petal look of it instead of the branchy types of moss, and I think it would look good together with the verticillata. Any other suggestions along the lines of this?
From what you said, I probably couldnt have my val with the HC if I do go ahead and get it since I'd have to dose with excel?
I also like the look of the dwarf hairgrass but I dont want to get something that I will have to trim a whole lot and I've heard that it can grow pretty long, I do have a pretty stocked tank full of bottom dwellers and such so maybe they would help keep it in check?


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

this poorly drawn image in paint is what I envision what I want my tank to look like.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> Should I get excel then? I do have a corkscrew val.


No!! Excel is a chemical used for disinfecting medical supplies. The Brightwell FlorinAxis seems to be a more natural source of Co2.


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I wish there was a LNT near me


LNT is only on line now. The stores filed bankruptcy.


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> Are HC and HM the same thing?


 HC need less light and less Co2 than the HM so you could use Brightwell FlorinAxis with it.


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I also like the look of the dwarf hairgrass but I dont want to get something that I will have to trim a whole lot


I have had the hair grass since June in my 29G with 3 Cory's. It is not growing tall. No problems with it. Tank 18 high had 3 T8 18 watts over it until this month.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> this poorly drawn image in paint is what I envision what I want my tank to look like.


Is this the shape? 

Took keep a Hydro you will have to keep it pruned. I am still learning aquascaping but have found best not to have main item centered. Dividing the tank in thirds help find focal points to draw the eye to. This I learned from seminar at Tex Gal's house, which was on line. Topic was Golden Rule. I don't know how you would do that. You are off to a good start. Most whom have good scapes start with a drawing. I have just started with what ever plants I could get cheap.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Ok with that being said, I would like to get HC in there with the hydro and my anubias on DW. I also have the 1 val in there, a small snippet of a sword from petsmart that was free which has already started rooting (but I dont think I'll have room for it in there so I'll just have to give it away), and 2 more anubias (one on lava rock and one also growing on the DW with my larger anubias) and 1 java fern on lava rock. Would the hydro be affected by the carpet of HC growing around it?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Here is a 10G hexagon to get ideas from. Here is the golden rule. Here more info on scaping.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Yes you got it, thats the same tank I have.
I have seen the same sort of golden ratio in film and photography.
I didnt even think of setting it up that way, and I wouldnt even know how to with my tanks odd shape and the relatively small piece of DW I have, it almost spans the width of the tank but only takes up about 1/3 of the height.
I suppose I could move it farther back and give away/sell the anubias and java fern I have on lava rock to make some more room for everything in there and get some negative space as well. Right now, comparing it to the golden ratio, my tank is totally fake 
I'll have to ponder on how I should rearrange my stuff in there by the time I do another WC.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Is it possible to carpet with 2 different plants in a smaller tank?
What I was thinking is to carpet the sand with HC and the DW with something else, I was thinking maybe mini pellia but I dont know if that would work. Would one take over the other?


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Ok heres the first idea I had after considering the golden ruleage.

Edit: also poorly drawn with paint


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I think the wood should be angled towards the Vals. The Hydro will more growing room. I wish I hadn't recommended that to you. It is good for cycling the tank. 

If you don't get xmas by spring I will send you some for the shipping cost, approx $3.

What critters are you going to place in there?


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Hilde said:


> I think the wood should be angled towards the Vals. The Hydro will more growing room. *I wish I hadn't recommended that to you.* It is good for cycling the tank.
> 
> If you don't get xmas by spring I will send you some for the shipping cost, approx $3.
> 
> What critters are you going to place in there?


What did you wish you never recommended?
I have a few corys, a friend of mine gave away his 3 tetras he called orange flame tetras, and a few ghost shrimp for now. My tank is good and cycled now I think, I tested it the other day and all that was showing up was a bit of ammonia and some nitrates.
I woul love some xmas moss, but what about having something to carpet the sand and something for the DW, would that work, or am I lookin for a lot of hassle/trouble?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> What did you wish you never recommended?


The wisteria.


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I have a few corys, a friend of mine gave away his 3 tetras he called orange flame tetras, and a few ghost shrimp for now.


Wouldn't add more than 3 of each.


SgtPeppersLHC said:


> I would love some xmas moss, but what about having something to carpet the sand and something for the DW.


Xmas moss could go on the wood. Then for carpet dwarf hair grass would be nice. Most of the time what I see sold as Dwarf hair grass is the average grass


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

I was looking into HC and mini pellia and other stuff of the sort because Im not as into the grassy look, don't get me wrong it looks great usually but I wanted something a little different.

Sent from my Droid


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Perhaps you could do something like this when you get some Pellia.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Looks awesome. How do you think mini pellia would do growing on driftwood with an anubias attached to it?

Sent from my Droid


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

*And the games begin*

Here it is. I don't like the placement right now, but I've changed it around twice now and I don't have any more time tonight.

heres the album

hooray for camera phones


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

I like the main one!! Is this with the new bulb? I give it an 8. I just think it needs something with color. Perhaps a few twigs of Ludwigia repens. Just would need 2ml of Excel daily.


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

2ml? really? I thought it was 5ml/60gal daily and 5ml/10gal on WC day?
I guess I'm under dosing. How many ml on my WC day then?
Oh and yes new bulb. 6500K 10W ... I thought it was 15W I mustve read it wrong


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

Oh and I'm going to let the HC grow in a bit before I add some color


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## SgtPeppersLHC (Dec 9, 2010)

*So I came home to this....*

nearly all of my hc uprooted after planting each one of them. There are a few that are still there in clumps but I was like oh... shoot 

This is the third time... damn corys.


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## Julii Cory (Feb 24, 2010)

That's one plant that I would plant only if I didn't have any fish, and in a semi-wet tank, until it takes up root. I have corys and sometimes they would uproot my freshly planted stems. I don't think they do it intentionally, they are not that kind of fish.

E


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

SgtPeppersLHC said:


> nearly all of my hc uprooted after planting each one of them.


Perhaps putting a some small rock around a few small groups would prevent that. Also leave some space open for the corys to forage.


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