# BGA Help!!!



## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

I have had BGA before in other tanks but for some reason my 55 is not responding to any of the treatments....

I don't think light is the problem. We have added drawn the shades completely and cut back the photo period with no observable response.

I don't think flow is the problem. The canister is filter is rated for an even larger tank and I also added an old powerhead from a salt water setup to move the water nearer to the substrate.

I have also dialed back the temp, added an airstone to increase oxygen, and stepped up water chages dramatically.

So what gives???

I have heard of ppl overdosing excel to kill the stuff but I don't wanna melt my Vals or riccia. Is there a safe way to do this?

I have also seen ppl use Peroxide but no one seems to agree on the proper dosage. Any one do this successfully?

Any other Suggestions?


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## jmowbray (Dec 20, 2009)

I use a syringe and put the H2O2 directly of the source. After a day it should turn red and die.


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

what are your nitrate levels?

if none of the other treatments work have you tried maracyn?


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

jmowbray said:


> I use a syringe and put the H2O2 directly of the source. After a day it should turn red and die.


The source is now everywhere haha... its on the gravel, the plants, the wood...

I just added about 1/5 cup (app. 1ml per gallon). That seems to be a general consensus from what I have read as a safe/ effective level.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

timwag2001 said:


> what are your nitrate levels?
> 
> if none of the other treatments work have you tried maracyn?


Nitrate looks to be about 5 ppm

I would rather not use maracyn and nuke the tanks biological filtration.


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

some plants dont respond well to h202. i'm surprised that h202 doesnt nuke the bio filter. bga is a bacteria and if you are using enough to kill that i wouldnt be surprised if it did the same to other bacteria


low nitrates might be an issue. do you dose?
http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

I dose excel and API leaf zone.

What is a good source of nitrate?


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## timwag2001 (Jul 3, 2009)

potassium nitrate. you can buy it at online stores like aquariumfertilizer.com along with many other online stores. you can find it at either lowes or home depot (cant remember which) in a product called Spectracide stump remover. 

or you can read this
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/2819-EI-light-for-those-less-techy-folks

and you can buy everything listed at aquariumfertilizer.com


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

Peroxide seems to have a great affectz!!!! (APP. 1ml/gallon). I added some KNO3 as well today to try to deal with the causes and not just the symptoms.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

Ok, spoke a little soon there I think... Deffinately slowed the growth of the stuff but it is still coming back.

Any other suggestions?


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

*Second post down!*


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

You don't say what type of light fixture/how many watts you have nor what the photo-period was and is now. What about CO2? Maracyn will not kill the filter bacteria either btw.
If you have decent lighting and don't supply a non-limiting supply of CO2 and nitrate, phosphate, potassium and micro nutrients you are likely to have problems with algae. I believe that high organic levels along with a lack of the former items tends to grow BGA. I haven't proven it scientifically but based on personal experiences that's my belief.


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## littlefish (Aug 6, 2010)

I found this:

Cause: Often caused by very low nitrates. It is fairly common to have it growing in the substrate against the front glass from where it can spread. Sometimes it appears with new setups that have had light and ammonia present at some point. Dirty substrates and filters may also bring it on. Poor water circulation is another possible cause.

Removal: A blackout is the best method for this. Clean out as much of the algae as you can and do a 30 to 50% water change. If your nitrates are low then add some potassium nitrate to get levels to 20ppm. Remove CO2 and add an airstone. Turn off lights and cover the whole tank so no light can enter. Leave it for 3 to 4 days. No peeking and no feeding - fish will be fine without food for this period. After 3 to 4 days remove the covers and do a 30 - 50% water change. Remove airstone and start CO2. You will need to dose nitrates to keep them dropping too low again. Make sure your substrate and filter doesn't become too clogged up with mulm and also make sure you have good water circulation around the whole tank.
Another option is to treat with Maracyn which is an anti-biotic. Seems to work well but may affect the biological filter. In the UK it is illegal to purchase Maracyn without first getting a prescription for it from a vet.
If the BGA is originating from the substrate place some dark tape on the glass to hide the substrate from direct light.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

LittleFish - thanks, I have read that article too but have yet to try the blackout.

MarkMc - the fixture is a 108w T5HO, the photoperiod is approx 9 hours. No co2 is injected.

Over the past week I have continued to battle this. Peroxide has done a good job keeping it at bay but the problem still remains.
I know I can treat it with Maracyn if i want but I would like to find a more natural solution.
I now feel my real issue lies with the plants themselves. They (the riccia in particular) just aren't growing at the rate that I have experienced in previous setups. My tank has a 11dKH reading and my guess is the GH is close to 0 (b/c of the well water and water softener I use). I also imagine that sodium levels are extremely high (again b/c of the water softener). I have read on numerous sites and forums that these two things (elevated KH and Sodium) are not good for many species of plants. I just spoke to a guy with Culligans about bypassing the water softener to get untreated water. Over the next week I will step up water changes with the unsoftened water to see what affect this has on plant growth.


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

dubvstudent said:


> LittleFish - thanks, I have read that article too but have yet to try the blackout.
> 
> MarkMc - the fixture is a 108w T5HO, the photoperiod is approx 9 hours. No co2 is injected.
> 
> ...


Look, don't waste your time doing a blackout. With that much light and no CO2 for a 9 hour photo-period it WILL come back. If for some reason it does not then some other form of algae will. I guarantee it. A 108 watt fixture with T-5HO bulbs is a LOT of light over a 55 with no CO2. You also have a serious situation using water from a water softener-plants will not do well with a lot of sodium in the water. Your biggest problem is way too much light with no CO2. It's a great way to grow algae.


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## VadimShevchuk (Sep 19, 2009)

I used some H202 on my 37 because of BGA. Dose 2ml per gallon with filters shut off. I did get a little melt from my jungle vals/UG but at least my algae is gone.


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## anda (Sep 8, 2010)

-Reduce light OR add co2
-Make sure flow is very good
-Add NO3 somehow

I had cyano issues myself and flow + NO3 fixed it in days...

You can't have that much light without co2.


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## Seattle_Aquarist (Jun 15, 2008)

Hi VadimShevchuk,

I am glad to hear the H2O2 worked for you! Don't forget that you have just treated the symptom, now you have to deal with the cause or it will return.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

anda said:


> You can't have that much light without co2.


X2... this is the root of the problem and fixing the root of the problem is the solution. Killing the algae will only be a temporary fix unless you fix the root of the problem too.

Reducing your light intensity will make it easier to provide proper fertilizer and CO2 levels. 

I use 108 watts of T5HO over a 50 gallon tank that is only an inch shorter than your 55. My lights are suspended 27" above the substrate and I still need to use pressurized CO2 and dose ferts to keep plants healthy and algae in check.

Don't underestimate the intensity of T5HO lighting especially if you have a fixture with good reflectors.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

I have suspected that lighting intensity was an issue. I have however had even more light over the same size tank without this issue (160 watts over my old 55 planted). This tank however uses t5s (had a t12 shop light setup) which I have no experience with. Is there that great of a lumen difference between t5 and t12?

Additionally I agree that pressurized CO2 would go a long way to balancing out the needs of the plants, but they are pricey. Do you think a diy system is worth a try?

Lastly, (new issue) what is killing my riccia? It is losing its color and falling apart? BGA (not as bad as it once was) or sodium from water softener? Or excel maybe?


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

dubvstudent said:


> I have suspected that lighting intensity was an issue. I have however had even more light over the same size tank without this issue (160 watts over my old 55 planted). This tank however uses t5s (had a t12 shop light setup) which I have no experience with. Is there that great of a lumen difference between t5 and t12?
> 
> Additionally I agree that pressurized CO2 would go a long way to balancing out the needs of the plants, but they are pricey. Do you think a diy system is worth a try?
> 
> Lastly, (new issue) what is killing my riccia? It is losing its color and falling apart? BGA (not as bad as it once was) or sodium from water softener? Or excel maybe?


Yes, T-5 HOs are a lot brighter than T12s. A DIY CO2 system won't generate enough CO2 consistently to run an algae free tank with that much light. As for your riccia it's hard to say which one is causing the most damage (I have no experience with that plant and Excel) but too much light and not enough CO2 can cause a variety of symptoms that a lot of people think are nutrient deficiencies. Wait a minute...CO2 _is_ a major nutrient! mmmmnnnn...


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## bkrivera (Feb 16, 2010)

Over dose flourish nitrogen with excel works like a charm.

Also, remove as much BGA as u can.


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## bkrivera (Feb 16, 2010)

And make sure u have enough co2 in the tank and try to keep nitrate level around 20ppm to prevent future outbreaks


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## Fat Man (Nov 2, 2006)

What is your bioload? If you can stand a few more fish I've found platies love stuff.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

So the general concensus Im getting here is (causing poor plant growth and BGA) is too much light w/o high enough CO2....

I might be able to rig up CO2 in the future, but for now I will try to dial back the light. Even though I have the cables, I cannot suspend it where it is because of the way the ceilings are... I guess my only real option is to cut back the photoperiod again... Its at 9... lets try 7?


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

You can make yourself a DIY ADA style light bar cheaply and easily and hang the fixture. That would give you infinite control over light levels, helpful even if you do use CO2.

Do a search for "DIY ADA style light bar" in the DIY forum, there is a great thread about how to make one.


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## debdp (Apr 9, 2008)

I've had that stuff for awhile and after tons of reading I'm pretty sure it's the lack of N03 dosing and too much phosphate. When I was dosing it started getting under control. I added a DIY Co2 system and the 4dkH drop checker was showing bright green almost yellow... my mistake was adding brighter light and forgetting to dose N03. Before I knew it my tank was one big ball of BBA. I've pulled all the plants, coated the leaves with stress coat for 1 hour, rinsed and placed in a QT tank to get rid of all the BBA separately. I had doubts about the Stress Coat, but all the BBA turned bright red on the treated plants. I haven't quite figured out how to treat my tank though. Lights out didn't work the last time. But pretty sure the low/no nitrates, high phosphates and high lights was the issue...same as it was the first time.


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

dubvstudent said:


> So the general concensus Im getting here is (causing poor plant growth and BGA) is too much light w/o high enough CO2....
> 
> I might be able to rig up CO2 in the future, but for now I will try to dial back the light. Even though I have the cables, I cannot suspend it where it is because of the way the ceilings are... I guess my only real option is to cut back the photoperiod again... Its at 9... lets try 7?


Yes, you have too much light no doubt. If you had a good light/CO2 balance _then_ adding more nitrate would help reduce BGA but just adding more nitrate to the current set up is not going to make it go away. If you didn't have BGA then you would have some other algae with that intensity and no CO2. Making sure that you have plenty of NO3 does help keep it at bay when you have enough CO2. In my tank ( which has a Hagen Glo 108 T-5 HO fixture too) which has compressed CO2 I occasionally get a little BGA on the top of plants at the surface. In that area there is less flow and I think that causes it to grow there but adding NO3 does make it go away.But it won't make it go away with no CO2. How about raising the fixture or using window screen to reduce lighting? You need to lessen intensity as well as duration.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

Well... I have adjusted my photoperiod. I'm trying the split period, about 4 on, 1.25 off, 4 on.

I have also tried to tackle the co2 issue. I purchased a needle valve and ordered a paintball asa on/off adaptor ($15 total). I have a 20oz tank that a local paintball store will fill for 4 dollars. I'm probably gonna set up a diy bubble counter as well. According to some write ups I read if you run it at a low rate (approx 1` bubble/second) even that small tank should last 2-3 months. I will have to wait until the asa gets here but hopefully I will have it up and running by the end of next week.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

dubvstudent said:


> Well... I have adjusted my photoperiod. I'm trying the split period, about 4 on, 1.25 off, 4 on.


Reducing the photoperiod by one hour will help a little but not much, you need to reduce the intensity and reducing the photoperiod does nothing to address intensity. A split photoperiod is fine but not necessarily better and once again does nothing to address light intensity.

It is good that you are going to add CO2 but I really doubt you are going to be able to run 1 bps in a 55 gallon tank and provide adequate CO2 levels for the amount of light you are using. Well, maybe if the bubbles are HUGE but because of the variable size of bubbles due to needle valve type, working pressure, type of bubble counter fluid, someone else's bubble count is not good for predicting how your system will work. At least if you find you are blowing through CO2 refills at a rapid rate you haven't invested much money and won't lose much if you find that you want to upgrade to a standard pressurized system. The fact that you will be adding CO2, though, is a definite plus and puts you on the right track for success... good luck with the tank!


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

I was planning on starting at 1 bbs and then dialing it up over time until I find a level that works for me.

What bbs do you suggest though?


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## MarkMc (Apr 27, 2007)

How are you going to diffuse the CO2 into the water column? I agree that one bps is not going to put much CO2 into a 55. Maybe ok in a low light set up but not a 108 watt T5 HO set up.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm planning on diffusing it by running it through a powerhead.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

The CO2 has been set up for a few days now and I think it is starting to make a difference in plant growth. At least the riccia appears to be coming back. There is still BGA present but I hope that as the plants perk up and return to normal/or even higher rates of growth they will be able to out-compete it.


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## albirdy (Jul 16, 2008)

bga is not an algae.


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## captain_bu (Oct 20, 2007)

I have never grown Riccia but have heard it is an excellent CO2 indicator plant. Your Riccia should start to pearl a couple of hours into the photoperiod if your CO2 is dialed in and circulation is good.


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## dubvstudent (Jan 10, 2009)

albirdy said:


> bga is not an algae.


Yeah, I know. Someone else moved this thread from general discussion to here.

Well... The CO2 has been running for about 2 weeks now and the riccia is definitely coming back, so that is a good sign. I have been adding KNO3, excel 3-4 times a week, and API leaf zone for iron. 

The BGA is still present however. It has diminished to the point though that i feel it will go away on its own as the tank matures provided that it receives good maintenance and upkeep.

Either way it is not my problem anymore. I have accepted a new job hundreds of miles away and my mother will have to deal with these issues on her own. (HAHA, I give it 6 months before she pulls all the plants and goes with cichlids).

I plan on starting a new tank when I get settled down in NY.
Talk to you guys then.


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