# Pond soil topped with...?



## fuzz_16 (Oct 28, 2011)

or do flourite cause the foreground will mostly be covered anyways...blah. 

so many options....simple is what i want


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm bias, but why not do a dirt tank? I would steer clear of pond mud...most ponds smell and goodness knows whats growing in there. If you go this way all you need is a bag of Miracle Grow Organic and whatever rocks/sand you want to cap it with. It's cheap, it works, and hey...plants like dirt. 

Add MGO to about an 1" to 1-1/2" deep, level it out, add rocks/sand to about an 1" deep for the cap, add water, add plants, and began filtering. I was able to add fish 24 hours later. (Hint for aesthetic purposes, you can get a credit card and "lean" the dirt away from the glass a bit and let some rocks/sand fall behind the card when capping.)

Here is a little 5 gallon I did like this...
View attachment 37154


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## fuzz_16 (Oct 28, 2011)

super! so pass on pond soil and go organic? which then i could just use my current gravel on top?

thanks so much! researching subsrates for a couple hours and this answered it within minutes. ha


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

fuzz_16 said:


> super! so pass on pond soil and go organic? which then i could just use my current gravel on top?
> 
> thanks so much! researching subsrates for a couple hours and this answered it within minutes. ha


Well, there are many many options when it comes to substrates...Miracle Grow Organic just happens to be _my_ favorite. I would definitely pass on the pond soil though. You can absolutely use your current gravel. Only real downside to dirt tanks is that when planting you have to be gentle. You don't want to kick too much of the dirt above the cap. 

Here is a thread one of the members is working on giving pros and cons of each available substrate. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/substrate/153412-substrate-choices-pros-cons.html


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## fuzz_16 (Oct 28, 2011)

thanks so much  what part of ks do you live?


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

fuzz_16 said:


> thanks so much  what part of ks do you live?


In Dodge City right now. I live in Mission for a while, and the OP for a spell. :icon_mrgr


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## fuzz_16 (Oct 28, 2011)

lol im in lenexa...small world. grew up in olathe though and ill prob never be more than a few minutes away.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

I miss the greater Kansas City area all the time. Great place to live.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Daximus said:


> I would definitely pass on the pond soil though.


Hoppy used only soil from a lake or river. He had excellent plant growth. Con is that it may have critters in it. Baking it can cause a fowl odor that lasted a week for someone. Thus handle it with gloves on. Hoppy poured boiling water over it and let it sit for a few days, then poured it off, and let it dry out.

I don't understand why you want to put gravel over it.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

Hilde said:


> Hoppy used only soil from a lake or river. He had excellent plant growth. Con is that it may have critters in it. Baking it can cause a fowl odor that lasted a week for someone. Thus handle it with gloves on. Hoppy poured boiling water over it and let it sit for a few days, then poured it off, and let it dry out.
> 
> I don't understand why you want to put gravel over it. It is finer than the gravel thus will seep up through the gravel


Maybe it's a geographic thing, but where I live rivers/lakes are much different that stagnant ponds. I'm not saying it wouldn't work at all, just seems a lot easier to get a $5 bag of dirt from the store that you know is loaded with stuff plants like and relatively clean. Granted, I'm in Kansas...it's not the land of a 1000 lakes, lol. :biggrin:

As far as capping goes, Miracle Grow is finer than gravel as well, I don't see anyone having issues keeping it down. You could totally do a dirt only (no cap) tank, but seems to me like the slightest current, a single disgruntle fish, or the slightest human input as far as maintenance would cause a dirt bloom that might take some time to settle down.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Daximus said:


> You could totally do a dirt only (no cap) tank, but seems to me like the slightest current, a single disgruntle fish, or the slightest human input as far as maintenance would cause a dirt bloom that might take some time to settle down.


I was thinking that the top of the pond dirt may be like river sand that I get from a landscaper for $3.


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

Hilde said:


> I was thinking that the top of the pond dirt may be like river sand that I get from a landscaper for $3.


That makes sense...I was thinking rotting black crud from the bottom of a cow pond, lol. :hihi:


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## fuzz_16 (Oct 28, 2011)

i already have gravel so it works

buuuut my dad gave me a thought...since you have to replace it every now and then with plants, do you in aquarium too? or as much does it hold nutrients?

and three kinds of organic...blood meal, bone meal, and all-purpose. i got all-purpose. that right?


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

fuzz_16 said:


> i already have gravel so it works
> 
> buuuut my dad gave me a thought...since you have to replace it every now and then with plants, do you in aquarium too? or as much does it hold nutrients?
> 
> and three kinds of organic...blood meal, bone meal, and all-purpose. i got all-purpose. that right?


How long it lasts is a subject always up for debate...mostly because every single aquarium is different. Some people have lots of plants, some have a few, some have lots of fish, some have a few, some add fertilizers, some....etc...you get the point. Even MGO will vary bag to bag on what's exactly in it. Best I can tell a good MGO aquarium will last 1-2 years. Some probably much longer than that. That said, all substrates will eventually lose their "stuff", after all it's not nature, it's a little glass cube. :biggrin:

All Purpose sounds right to me.


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## fuzz_16 (Oct 28, 2011)

blah....maybe ill move by then and upgrade to a giant shrimp tank mwuahaha just cause i could...


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## maverickbr77 (Feb 5, 2009)

When I did my 55 I went out and dug up some dirt and red clay for the base and capped it with heavy grain sand from my brothers gravel pit. has given me some pretty good growth with no additives.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Read that soil substrates without water dosing often peter out after about 6-12 months here. Nothing is written in stone when dealing with nature. Also you put root tabs in the substrate. Some use jobe stakes for tomatoes, oscomote time release. I had good results with organic charcoal bits pushed under the substrate.

Thus I think it good to have something in the substrate that has a high CEC (Cation Exchange Capacity). CEC is the ability of the medium to absorb cation ions, (minerals from fertilizers), and hold them making them accessible to the plants when the plants need them. I use some Red Bag Kitty litter in my substrate for that purpose.


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

Daximus said:


> I was thinking rotting black crud from the bottom of a cow pond, lol. :hihi:


Ooo! Someone would be in the dog house if they brought that in the house. What a stench.:hihi:


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

another draw back to using miracle grow organic is that it WILL rot under the cap and cause gas pockets, there are ways around it like mineralization but starting with organic soil it would take forever, if you're considering a dirt tank at all i would take a gander at the mineralized topsoil sticky, much safer imo and the results may be better

btw if the gas pocket is big enough and you release it prepare for a not so nice smell to linger around a bit in the room, i won't be going back to dirt because of it, sand works better for me


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## fuzz_16 (Oct 28, 2011)

shrimpNewbie said:


> another draw back to using miracle grow organic is that it WILL rot under the cap and cause gas pockets, there are ways around it like mineralization but starting with organic soil it would take forever, if you're considering a dirt tank at all i would take a gander at the mineralized topsoil sticky, much safer imo and the results may be better
> 
> btw if the gas pocket is big enough and you release it prepare for a not so nice smell to linger around a bit in the room, i won't be going back to dirt because of it, sand works better for me


ya...tried the MGO and it led to a poop smell in my room and bubbles in my tank and all my fish died. cept the bettas.


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## TactusMortus (Jun 28, 2011)

fuzz_16 said:


> ya...tried the MGO and it led to a poop smell in my room and bubbles in my tank and all my fish died. cept the bettas.


You likely had manure based mgo and did you cycle the tank? From the date of your first post in this thread I would think not. If that is the case your fish likely died from an ammonia spike caused by a uncycled tank and mgo. Many members here use mgo without any issues. I personally am not a big fan but many have beautiful tanks without any issues.


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## fuzz_16 (Oct 28, 2011)

the 10g tank was set up for over a year
i transferred everything to the 20g-substrate, filter, decor
just had the added substrate below and capped with the rocks i had. i dont beleive it was a cycle issue as none of the params were over 1 and i did a WC the next day and nitrites were 0 ammonia 0 so as much as people keep saying the tank wasnt cycled...i dont beleive that was the reason.


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## TactusMortus (Jun 28, 2011)

How deep was your mgo?


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## Hilde (May 19, 2008)

fuzz_16 said:


> ya...tried the MGO and it led to a poop smell in my room and bubbles in my tank and all my fish died. cept the bettas.


Ooo!! With a smell like that surprised anything lived. That is what I have read happens when soil is bad. Obviously a bad batch.

Just proves what works for 1 doesn't always work for another. Thus to wait at least a week before adding fish when setting up a tank.

In experimenting with substrates found adding reptile coconut fiber to the base prevents soil from getting that terrible egg gassy smell.


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

its not the soil being bad it is the soil rotting under the cap when submerged, if it doesnt get poked once in a while the gasses build up, which is probably what killed the fish NOT an uncycled tank, though a novel idea I have always started with fish in the tank besides my more sensitive large cichlids, when you use organic dirt in a tank it has wood chips and other organics, where i'm at the miracle grow organic doesnt come with poo. all the organic particles will break down one way or another and it lets out the gas i have grown to hate, i will never use another organic base, much safer using dirt that is already broken down


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## Daximus (Oct 19, 2011)

Too bad to hear about all of that. My MGO tanks are doing awesome, I doubt I'll ever use anything but MGO. I wonder what happened. Mine's been up for a couple months, everything is growing exceptionally well and I haven't lost a single fish. All 0s across the board on mine. 

The only thing I can think of is the planting. I've always read that the MGO method needs to be heavily planted right out of the gate if you want to add fish quickly. Otherwise it needs time to cycle. 

Setting up my 90 with this method tonight.


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

Daximus said:


> Too bad to hear about all of that. My MGO tanks are doing awesome, I doubt I'll ever use anything but MGO. I wonder what happened. Mine's been up for a couple months, everything is growing exceptionally well and I haven't lost a single fish. All 0s across the board on mine.
> 
> The only thing I can think of is the planting. I've always read that the MGO method needs to be heavily planted right out of the gate if you want to add fish quickly. Otherwise it needs time to cycle.
> 
> Setting up my 90 with this method tonight.


=] my plants did absolutely amazingly, too bad for the fish though which is the part of the hobby that I care about


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## fuzz_16 (Oct 28, 2011)

TactusMortus said:


> How deep was your mgo?


it was 1.5" i think it was too deep


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