# how much excel to use on 260gal.



## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

hi im setting up a lowtech 265gal tank. it will be heavily planted from day 1. about 200+ bunchs in plants total. 

i have safetsorb 400lbs for substrates. got dry fertilizers for water dosing. 
will be running 6x54W T5 HO bulbs.
all i left to buy is seachem excel.
do i follow the direction on the label? 
should i get the 4L one since mine such a big tank?

by the way, is my lighting too much for a lowtech tank? will it cause algae issues? should i just do 4x54W?


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

i dont want massive growths and dont wanna trim weekly.
i want like once a month maintenance. and may keep high prized discus and dont wanna take a chance on co2 overdose.


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## chou (Feb 23, 2012)

dkreef said:


> i dont want massive growths and dont wanna trim weekly.
> i want like once a month maintenance. and may keep high prized discus and dont wanna take a chance on co2 overdose.


265g and once a month maintenance for 200+ plants. good luck with that.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Bunches of plants - stems? Get Anubias, crypts, java ferns and moss instead. 

If you are determined to use Excel look at using Metricide 14 instead. It is a stronger solution of the same stuff in Excel and costs less. Use the amount it tells you on the label, 5ml per 50 gallons [1ml per 10 gallons] so 26ml a day.

Light depends on the shape of the tank. If it is tall you may need more light than if it is shallow. See the sticky thread in the Lighting forum.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

im getting bunch of annubias, crypts, ferns, hc, wisteria, vals, ludwigia, etc. all in all about 200 pieces. 

Kathyy, 
where can i get metricide 14 from?
do u think i should go with 4x54w or 6x54w?
i do wanna try some med to high light plants.


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## Bluek24a4 (Mar 16, 2010)

If you buy Excel you might as well just drop $100 bills into that tank a few times a week. Definitely go with one of the generic gluts. If you want to try those higher requirement plants, maybe start with the 6x54 and if you run into (algae) problems then turn it down to 4x54.

Make sure you aren't using plants that are sensitive to glut.


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Congrats on such a nice tank! I do respect your decision not to use pressurized CO2 if you don't feel comfortable with it. You're correct that it will reduce the trimming aspect.

I do agree with using Metricide 14 from a cost point of view. As far as excel, according to the label, dose 5mL per 50 gallons every day or every other day. On initial use or after a large water change, use 5mL for every 10 gallons. Keep in mind the substrate, plants, ornaments etc. will reduce the water volume which needs to be accounted for. Using daily dosing ONLY the 4L bottle should last about 160 days.

The lighting is another issue. The amount of light depends on too many factors to say if it's too much. I highly recommend you read this sticky in the lighting section. If you have questions not answered there Hoppy would be the one to ask.

BTW the vals may melt with excel use.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Zorfox said:


> Congrats on such a nice tank! I do respect your decision not to use pressurized CO2 if you don't feel comfortable with it. You're correct that it will reduce the trimming aspect.
> 
> I do agree with using Metricide 14 from a cost point of view. As far as excel, according to the label, dose 5mL per 50 gallons every day or every other day. On initial use or after a large water change, use 5mL for every 10 gallons. Keep in mind the substrate, plants, ornaments etc. will reduce the water volume which needs to be accounted for. Using daily dosing ONLY the 4L bottle should last about 160 days.
> 
> ...


so im assuming metrcide 14 will last me about less than a year for me correct?


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

Maybe more. It's more concentrated. That is about the only difference besides being less than half the price. I'd have to do the math lol


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## pmcarbrey (Jan 19, 2013)

You're looking at about $350 a year to dose with metricide 14, just buy a co2 rig....


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

just ordered a gal of merticide 14 on ebay for $20.99 shipped. i love this forum.
excel would have cost me ~4 times more.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

pmcarbrey said:


> You're looking at about $350 a year to dose with metricide 14, just buy a co2 rig....


how did u come up with this calculation?

im assuming i get almost a year worth with 1 gal of metricide 14.


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## Kathyy (Feb 22, 2010)

That much? A gallon of Metricide 14 can be found for as little as $21 online with free shipping [fleabay]. A gallon is 3.7 liters or 3700ml. If you dose half as much Metricide as Excel that would be 13ml a day and the gallon would last for about 280 days for that $21. The stuff is definitely not as expensive as pressurized gas, I pay $15 for 10 pounds every other month for the 180 gallon tank. Metricide or Excel is not as good as CO2 but it is easy.

Good, glad you are getting some of the plants I suggested. I was picturing a tank planted with just Cabomba, Rotala, Ludwigia and the like. Nice plants but they take more work and light than the ones I mentioned.


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## pmcarbrey (Jan 19, 2013)

dkreef said:


> how did u come up with this calculation?
> 
> im assuming i get almost a year worth with 1 gal of metricide 14.


Sorry, grabbed the wrong price, google price checking sucks. 

It'll cost about $80 a year. Once again though: a co2 rig would be the much better investment. For 1 year's cost you could get a regulator


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## Zorfox (Jun 24, 2012)

pmcarbrey said:


> Sorry, grabbed the wrong price, google price checking sucks.
> 
> It'll cost about $80 a year.


80/12= $6.66 per month. Darn! there goes that once a month starbucks coffee!:icon_eek:


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

Lol, I say pressurized to avoid using the chemical but if that is the route you plan on going document your travels!


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm anti Excel period. With proper maintenance & planning it just is not needed in a low light tank. Too many collateral damage plant deaths don't justify it's use. Especially since Amano shrimp and Ramshorn snails can handle the on going algae maint.

If you want execrated growth (more pruning) and high light demand plants go CO2.


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## denske (Feb 20, 2013)

What plants are harmed from using Excel? I've never heard that, thanks in advance.


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## BigTom (Sep 16, 2011)

If you're supplementing carbon (regardless of whether its gaseous or liquid) then it isn't low tech. If you want easy maintenance then just forget about it altogether, reduce lighting if needed and adjust your plant list slightly if there's anything very demanding on there.


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## pejerrey (Dec 5, 2011)

Start low light, you are describing a high maintenance low budget tank.

The amount of hassle is determined by your light on the plant/algae side and livestock on water quality.

Pressurized Co2 all the way! Imo, Most algae/growth problems are due to unstable carbon supply. (When light and nutrients are plenty)


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## DogFish (Jul 16, 2011)

denske said:


> What plants are harmed from using Excel? I've never heard that, thanks in advance.


I've hard problems with crypts & java ferns, other forum members have posted their experiences. Do a little search and you'll find several threads & comments.

This is what Excel basically is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde


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## asuran (Oct 12, 2007)

interesting


DogFish said:


> I've hard problems with crypts & java ferns, other forum members have posted their experiences. Do a little search and you'll find several threads & comments.
> 
> This is what Excel basically is:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde


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## jspk (Oct 7, 2012)

Also heard that some mosses are sensitive to Excel. 
Water wisteria will also grow like a weed co2 or not.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

im going co2. u guys win...


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## dj2606 (Mar 27, 2009)

HC (one of the plants you listed) and vals melt with gluts. 

If you are wanting less trimming why would you go with one of the smallest foreground plants? I remember taking 30min to trim all the HC in a 55g can only imagine how long it would take on a tank of that size. I would go with glosso instead. It will look just as amazing in a tank of that size and less work in trimming than HC

just my $.02, take it or leave it


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Good advice about glosso vs hc


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

Guys im still confused if i take the hc out the list, can the rest of my plants thrive without co2 and just the light i have plus fertilizers?
What i mean by thrive is not crazy growth but slow and steady growth but healthy and colorful plants. 
Im not sure if i should do co2 or metricide 14 or no carbon at all. 
Someone organize for me...


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## BigTom (Sep 16, 2011)

dkreef said:


> Guys im still confused if i take the hc out the list, can the rest of my plants thrive without co2 and just the light i have plus fertilizers?


Yes.

(you may have too much light running all your bulbs)


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## shrimpNewbie (May 6, 2011)

I vote no matricide, if you want true low tech go with lower light plants and low light, if you want plants with color other than green you usually need high light, and with high light you NEED co2.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

i want red colors also...which means i need high light and i need co2...sigh~


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## Rainer (Jan 30, 2011)

dkreef said:


> i want red colors also...which means i need high light and i need co2...sigh~


Not necessarily - check out crypt cordata blassli.


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## dkreef (Jan 9, 2005)

this is the plants i already got:

Ammania Gracilis
Bacopa caroliniana
cryptocoryne Balanesae
cryptocoryne Lucens
cryptocoryne wendtii Brown
cryptocoryne wendtii Green
Echinodorus Parviflorus
Hydrocotyle leucocephala
hygrophillia difformis
Limnophillia Aromatica
Ludwigia Natans
Java fern
Narrow leaf Java fern
Rotala Indica
Sagittaria subulata
Vallisneria Spiralis


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## Imi Statue (Apr 6, 2012)

DogFish said:


> I've hard problems with crypts & java ferns, other forum members have posted their experiences. Do a little search and you'll find several threads & comments.
> 
> This is what Excel basically is:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde


Glad to see you know about Excel @Dogfish...:thumbsup:
I never thought anyone, in any forum, would understand this stuff. Check out this thread at APC: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/...ourish-excel-got-rid-all-my-7.html#post643946

This chemical can be used for many things and is quite safe if used by a halfway intelligent adult human. I have several links in that thread at the bottom of one of my posts there for complete information on Excel.


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## Imi Statue (Apr 6, 2012)

For those who must know more:

DOW = http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc
MSDS = http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924161
Wiki = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde
EPA = http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/glutaraldehyde-red.pdf


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