# Shrimps "hanging" near the surface, something to be alarmed?



## GeToChKn

Your params seem more spot on for crs than neos, but some people keep neo's in those params.

I see you're doing CO2, do you have lots of surface agitation though to help keep the O2 in balance with the CO2.


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## Puddles

Could they be hanging on directly beneath the bar as it is the only place in the tank with no current? Maybe you have too much current? I dunno other than that I can't hazard a guess.


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## ravensgate

If it's an oxygen problem I'd run an airstone in there and see if they start to come down. Might help eliminate one explanation. If the pH was affecting them that much I'd highly doubt they would be breeding. But that's just a guess. If I saw it I would add an airstone. I have a spraybar on my tank along with a dual sponge filter at one end. I noticed all the shrimps hung out on the end with the sponge filter, despite a spray bar running the length of the tank. And I don't mean ON the sponge filter, they just stayed on that end. I ran a small airstone at the other end of the tank and viola, they started roaming the whole tank and going to the other end. And I don't do any CO2 but they still apparently weren't happy with the oxygen level in the tank. YMMV


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## GeToChKn

Lack of O2 makes them act weird, sometimes in different ways but as Raven said, an airstone or sponge filter if you're not running one or maybe need more would help elminate it.

I would assume, and only speaking on guessing here, that the water near the top of the tank is more rich in O2 than the bottom, where shrimp normally hang out. If the bottom is lacking, they would move up to get close to more O2 rich water.


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## mordalphus

Sounds like too much flow, what size tank is it?


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## sayurasem

Maybe just weird shrimp? My shrimps like to climb on my aqueon quite flow spout, which is the strongest current at.


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## CookieM

My Yellow die in 5.5-6.0 PH level. Maybe your Neo is uncomfortable in that CRS/CBS environment and needed some air. Try using air stone as suggested by others. Or you might have to find them a new home.


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## I3raven

Is there anything on the suction cups? They might be feeding on diatoms. My Clown Loaches and snails use to hang around the suction cups to feed on diatoms if they are hungry.


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## MsNemoShrimp

Usually at most I would spot no more than 6 up there. Normally about 2-4 at a time only. When its feeding time they would all come down.

Its a tank with 60+ shrimps so with that amount at the top perhaps couldn't be bad water other than pH or O2 as mentioned?

The tank is a 17 Mr. Aqua. It has a strong surface agitation, but its not strong in which the Amazonia is being pushed around or anything. The fissidens would sway back and forth and so does the other moss, again, not crazy like things are blown away.

Realistically though after all the substrate is in, it only took 12 gallons of RO water to fill up the tank. 1 inch waterline from the rim of the tank. This sparks another question. *So when dosing, does that mean I should dose only equivalent to actually how much water is in the tank which is 12 gallons or the whole volume of the tank which is 17 gallon?*

With a little sidetrack on the side, I will definitely try out an airstone. If they all come down then hope that's it!


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## alexopolus

MsNemoShrimp said:


> Usually at most I would spot no more than 6 up there. Normally about 2-4 at a time only. When its feeding time they would all come down.
> 
> Its a tank with 60+ shrimps so with that amount at the top perhaps couldn't be bad water other than pH or O2 as mentioned?
> 
> The tank is a 17 Mr. Aqua. It has a strong surface agitation, but its not strong in which the Amazonia is being pushed around or anything. The fissidens would sway back and forth and so does the other moss, again, not crazy like things are blown away.
> 
> Realistically though after all the substrate is in, it only took 12 gallons of RO water to fill up the tank. 1 inch waterline from the rim of the tank. This sparks another question. *So when dosing, does that mean I should dose only equivalent to actually how much water is in the tank which is 12 gallons or the whole volume of the tank which is 17 gallon?*
> 
> With a little sidetrack on the side, I will definitely try out an airstone. If they all come down then hope that's it!


Try running a air stone (timer) when your lights are off (I do this with all my tanks with CO2), that will oxygenate your water during the night (remember plants also need oxygen at night) and when the lights come on your plants will do the job. I have my planted tanks with neos and It doesn't seem to bug them (I run 3 bps in a 45G). Also keep a eye on your PH ( I'm not sure about this, if some one else could explain it better) and Kh, if Kh is low you will have more CO2 available in the water (someone help me with this thought). 

Now when dosing, I don't know witch method you are doing (EI, etc etc) I prefer to dose or the amount of water ( just to be on the safe side) that way you don't overdose and hurt your shrimp. I usual dose tank volume to planted tanks with no shrimp. Again it depends. I use ADA fertz in my CRS tank, and the ADA rep in Florida recommended me 1/2 dose for CRS.


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## sayurasem

Picture of the tank would be great


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## MsNemoShrimp

I haven't had a chance to try out the airstone method yet, but since last night I raised the spray bar a little so there is a bit more "noise". Its more like water shooting down on the surface and noticed only 2 on the suction cups this morning as opposed to 4-5 that I normally see in the morning. So basically does that confirm its the lack of O2? I really rather use that method than an airstone because the tank is literally 3 feet from my bed and our floor is wood so the sound would definitely travel 

I don't dose any ferts other than perhaps once a month of the Flourish Comprehensive stuff. Dose about 1/2 the recommended amount too. The rest I am referring to is like Stout, Bebi, Shield, etc. if I should dose by volume of the entire tank or just volume of water


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## GeToChKn

Guess you should have stated it was only 4 or 5 hanging out at the top, out of 60. That's normal as all 60 shrimp aren't always going to be in the same spot. With 4 or 5 out of 60, I wouldn't worry about it then. I can see 2 crs right now on my thermometer at the top of my tank, but out of 70 or 80, it's not a concern.


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## MsNemoShrimp

GeToChKn said:


> Guess you should have stated it was only 4 or 5 hanging out at the top, out of 60. That's normal as all 60 shrimp aren't always going to be in the same spot. With 4 or 5 out of 60, I wouldn't worry about it then. I can see 2 crs right now on my thermometer at the top of my tank, but out of 70 or 80, it's not a concern.


Should have put that on the OP right? Post #10 is when I clarified. Oppsy! :hihi: Yeah and with the spraybar adjusted to shoot water down at the water surface, they look like they loving it now. Swimming all over the place and gliding across the water like superman until they get blown away by the current at some point. Lol.

Hopefully I don't have to resort to an airstone/pump. Is the adjusted spraybar method the best alternative to no having to use an airstone/pump?


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## GeToChKn

Any sort of surface agitation is fine. Common misconception people have is that an airstone adds O2 to the water, but it doesn't. It just breaks the surface of the water, promoting O2 exchange with the air, regardless if it's the spray bar, and HOB filter, air stone or you standing there poking the water with your finger 24/7, anything that breaks the surface of the water will help add O2 and CO2 and all the gasses that make up our air.


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## ravensgate

Yep it just has to break the surface of the water for oxygenation. Just changing the direction of the spray bar can make a night and day difference. For my situation though I had plenty of water break with the spray bar but they still wouldn't go down on that one end until after I put an airstone in. Wasn't any dead area there, just for whatever reason that airstone made a difference. As with everything else YMMV.


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## MsNemoShrimp

GeToChKn said:


> Any sort of surface agitation is fine. Common misconception people have is that an airstone adds O2 to the water, but it doesn't. It just breaks the surface of the water, promoting O2 exchange with the air, regardless if it's the spray bar, and HOB filter, air stone or you standing there poking the water with your finger 24/7, anything that breaks the surface of the water will help add O2 and CO2 and all the gasses that make up our air.


Thanks for the detailed explanation. Next up, I'll try "_poking the water with your finger 24/7_" :bounce:


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## alexopolus

MsNemoShrimp said:


> I haven't had a chance to try out the airstone method yet, but since last night I raised the spray bar a little so there is a bit more "noise". Its more like water shooting down on the surface and noticed only 2 on the suction cups this morning as opposed to 4-5 that I normally see in the morning. So basically does that confirm its the lack of O2? I really rather use that method than an airstone because the tank is literally 3 feet from my bed and our floor is wood so the sound would definitely travel
> 
> I don't dose any ferts other than perhaps once a month of the Flourish Comprehensive stuff. Dose about 1/2 the recommended amount too. The rest I am referring to is like Stout, Bebi, Shield, etc. if I should dose by volume of the entire tank or just volume of water


The only thing with the spray bar close to the surface is that you are loosing CO2 during the photosynthesis period when your lights are on and your plants need it. 
Food, I dose way less that they recommend (in my case mosura products), a container of gravidas last me more than one year, but I will alternate tonic pro, bio and powder spirulina. Twice a week I'll drop barley straw in the feeding dish and once a week on cleaning day I drop some ADA bee food, I do the ADA food, because it attracts all criters in the tank, including planaria, that wayn I can siphon the planaria out with a air hose.


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## MsNemoShrimp

alexopolus said:


> The only thing with the spray bar close to the surface is that you are loosing CO2 during the photosynthesis period when your lights are on and your plants need it.
> Food, I dose way less that they recommend (in my case mosura products), a container of gravidas last me more than one year, but I will alternate tonic pro, bio and powder spirulina. Twice a week I'll drop barley straw in the feeding dish and once a week on cleaning day I drop some ADA bee food, I do the ADA food, because it attracts all criters in the tank, including planaria, that wayn I can siphon the planaria out with a air hose.


Its not a heavily planted tank or anything so CO2 isn't the biggest concern for them. The CO2 is there to keep pH constant while helping with plants a little. The spray bar as I have realized, does help with O2 if placed properly so perhaps with good CO2 and adequate O2 everything can strive?


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## danielt

My shrimp tends to stay at the surface to pick at the biofilm. Maybe that's why they're up there. 4-5 guys out of 60 is nothing to worry about IMHO.

The shrimp tank has no visible surface biofilm mind you


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## MsNemoShrimp

I want to say its pH related. I moved them out about a week ago, no more deaths, no more hanging near the surface. Neon Yellows aren't meant for pH that is 6.5 or low I suppose. My super Blue Rili, however, doesn't mind


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## mistahoo

I have blue velvets in 6.4 pH. They are all over the tank. Some are even on top of the tiger lotus I have and graze on the leaf half in the water and half out. They're also swimming upside down eating off the surface of the water. They're pretty healthy and haven't experienced any deaths so far. I don't think it's pH that was affecting your shrimp. Tank has been up since Sept 2012.


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## MsNemoShrimp

Mine is lower though. I am thinking only 5.5 - 6


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## doriblue42

The optimum pH range for neon yellow shrimp is between 7 and 7.8, which means they prefer neutral to slightly basic water. They may not die at that pH, but it may stress them out and make them more suceptible to disease.


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