# Hacking the Fluval Fresh & Plant 2.0 LED light



## drjustice

Hi everyone,

i am big into Arduino hacking these days, and I wanted, like so many others, to write my own aquarium controller.

Lighting is obviously a big part of it, and I was looking to control the Fluval 2.0 LED ramp.

What first got me into this idea is the fact that the LED fixture can be controlled by a (crappy) touch-sensitive button, *OR* by a wifi gizmo that plugs between the wall wart and the fixture.

The Led 2.0 is a 2-channel light. It has white and blue. When you press the touch sensitive button on the fixture, it goes from WHITE, BLUE, OFF. Touch-holding the button will slowly dim, then slowly brigthen the LEDs.

Apparently, when you plug the wifi controller, the light needs to be in its OFF state for the controller to work.

The connector from from the wall wart to the fixture is some sort of 4-pin DIN connector. With a multimeter, I have easily identified +24V and 0V. 

The two other pins are more complicated to figure out. Because the Wifi gizmo plugs directly into the wiring that has those 4 pins, I figured they could be PWM signal.


Without an oscilloscope, I used an Arduino to peek at the voltage signal coming from the 5V lines. Turns out the 5v turns on-and-off at not-so-steady rate that can range anywhere from 60 to 150 Hz, averaging at a pretty constant 87 hz over consecutive 10 second intervals of measurement.

Voltage on-off cycles typicall range from 6-8 milliseconds at 5v followed by 6-8 milliseconds at 0v, about 46% duty cycle. But a typical PWM should be at around 1000 Hz.

I don't have an oscilloscope here, but I don't think it's PWM. The wave is just too darned inconsistent and nowhere near the frequency of a typical PWM.

Maybe some sort of square or sine wave, though the voltage drops go from 5V to 0V quite quickly.

Going back to the WIFI gizmo that sits between the wall wart and the fixture, I'm guessing it's a self-sustained microcontroller that talks to the iPhone application, downloads the settings, and then drives the lights from the 5v signals of the connector. 

So what I want is basically to reproduce the control of the WIFI gizmo has over the light, but I want to control the light depending on conditions other than just a schedule.

And besides, reverse-engineering stuff is just so much fun.

Anyone has suggestions on where to go from here?


For reference: you can look at the 4-pin plug and the wifi gizmo thing here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UFszuRE30M


----------



## [email protected]

Have you considered the possibility that the Arduino input may not be fast enough to capture a pwm signal? In other words, only capturing some of the pulses? That may explain the inconsistent measurements.


----------



## drjustice

[email protected] said:


> Have you considered the possibility that the Arduino input may not be fast enough to capture a pwm signal? In other words, only capturing some of the pulses? That may explain the inconsistent measurements.


Yes. So I did a test. I hooked up a wire from PWM pin 3 and fed it directly into analog pin 0 (A0) which reads 5V voltage levels as 0 to 1023.

When I do this, I get a rock solid reading from the arduino.

But using the same code on the 5V signal of the Fluval, I get a lot of variability in the signal. 

I used the code at the link below to do my test. It's an interrupt-driven approach to querying the signal, not polling, so should not miss pulses.

Three Ways To Read A PWM Signal With Arduino


I also did tests with the arduino pulseIn() function -- all yield similar results.


At some point I might bite the bullet and buy the wifi controller, spy on the output, try to replicate what it's doing.

But that would be a waste of 150$ and I'm like, ugh.


----------



## Hoppy

Doesn't pulse width power control work by chopping the tail end off of each sine wave, so you get a sine wave start, followed by an abrupt drop to zero? That would show up as a weird wave shape, with the length of the off time being what determines how much the power is reduced.


----------



## theatermusic87

drjustice said:


> Yes. So I did a test. I hooked up a wire from PWM pin 3 and fed it directly into analog pin 0 (A0) which reads 5V voltage levels as 0 to 1023.
> 
> When I do this, I get a rock solid reading from the arduino.
> 
> But using the same code on the 5V signal of the Fluval, I get a lot of variability in the signal.
> 
> I used the code at the link below to do my test. It's an interrupt-driven approach to querying the signal, not polling, so should not miss pulses.
> 
> Three Ways To Read A PWM Signal With Arduino
> 
> 
> I also did tests with the arduino pulseIn() function -- all yield similar results.
> 
> 
> At some point I might bite the bullet and buy the wifi controller, spy on the output, try to replicate what it's doing.
> 
> But that would be a waste of 150$ and I'm like, ugh.


I don't remember all the details, but arginine pwm operates around 1000hz and other pwm operates up to 60000hz (again the details are fuzzy in my memory) but look into controlling pwm PC fans with an arduino fit more details


----------



## drjustice

So I'm in front of an oscilloscope right now, and I feel like a bit of an idiot.

Keep in mind I'm a total noob here and until about 3 hours ago I knew nothing about oscilloscopes other than there was one at work. After a couple of youtube videos about how to use them, I was good to go.

So, the first thing is that I just realized that I was making measurements of the supposedly 5V pins without them being grounded, and what I saw must have been... I have no clue. But when I just look at that signal (not connected to ground) it definitely looks like an AC wave and goes way beyond 5V. It has a frequency of 60 hz (1st picture). Sorry again for the noobiness.


Now, the next pictures show the signal of the two pins with the probe properly grounded. 

On the pin on the right, I read an AC wave of 320 mV differential (+/- 180 mV peaks), and on the pin on the left, I read an AC wave of 640 mV (+/- 320 mV peaks). Both signals at 60 hz, 

It appears there's hardly any voltage there at all.

Certainly, the signal does NOT look like a square wave like you might expect from a PWM signal. 

And it's all the more surprising that what IS there looks like an AC signal.


I'm going to get the Wifi thing tomorrow and I'll see if I can get the Wifi adapter to spew anything of significance out of those pins.


----------



## jeffkrol

Maybe the wrong ground..


----------



## drjustice

Discussing this with coworkers today, we basically concluded that the AC signal described in previous posts was probably the scope reading AC noise/leaks coming from the wall wart and that there was likely no signal coming off of those pins, and that those pins might not even be connected to anything in the wall wart (or, maybe, to ground), who knows.

So, previous posts = garbage.

Anyway, I went and got the wifi controller instead.

And aha! Now we're talking!

After setting up the device, loading up the application and making sure I could adjust the lighting levels, I disconnected the lamp and hooked up the scope to the 0V and the two mystery pins. 

I adjusted the brightness via the application, and looked at how the signal changed on the scope. And now, it the waveform certainly looks like a PWM signal at 500 hz and at 3.3 VDC. The only weird thing about it is that it seems to be negative voltage, going from -3.3v (LOW state) to 0V (HIGH state). I'm not sure why at this point, but the scope doesn't lie, and I tried reversing the scope's ground/measurement tips to see if I'd get a different polarity, and the signals went all wonky on me.

I added pictures of what I saw.

On the first image, you can see the regularity at which the scope sees the many cycles of what appears to be a PWM (I set the light at 50%) going from -3.3v to 0V. The image tells of a frequency of 250 hz, but I think that's because of how "zoomed out" I was on the time scale. When zoomed in a little bit on the individual cycles, the scope clearly shows a solid and steady 500 hz.


The other images below show the scope's results based on the settings of the wifi module/app.

10% brightness, 50% brightness, 90% brightness.


You can see a very constant rising of the wave, then jumps to top voltage for the % of the duty cycle programmed by the app.


So, now that I know what to look for and what to replicate, my next steps are to try to come up with code and circuitry based on an arduino that reads similar wave forms on the scope at the same frequency. Then, hook up the arduino to the lamp and see what happens.

Wee!

Just tested a couple of things with an Arduino. 

1) The good news is that the default PWM frequency is.... 500 Hz. 
2) I can also convert a 5V PWM signal to 3.3v using a simple level shifter like 74AHC125.
3) I can use an ICL7660 to negate this voltage (which I don't have right now)

Looks more and more like a piece of cake, but I'm bothered by the fact that the scope is reading a negative voltage for those pins.

But I'm beginning to form an idea as to why that might be, but anyone cares to offer hypothesis?


----------



## benw

How is progress going on this? I have the fresh & plant 2.0 and I'm interested in trying myself but don't have any arduino experience. Is anything besides the board needed?


----------



## drjustice

Sorry folks, It's been a very busy week, and this coming week I'm traveling. Sorry for the delay.

I've actually opened the wifi box, and I've found that: 

- From the wall-wart going into the Wifi controller, only +24V and 0V are connected. The two other wires are actually cut (!!)

- The 0V and 24V powers a small motherboard that transmits the 0V and 24V at the other end, plus two channels of PWM per light. There are actually markings on the motherboard labeled PWM1 (light 1 - white), PWM2 (light1 - blue), PWM3 (light 2 - white), PWM4 (light 2 - blue).

- On the board I see 3.3v voltage regulators, confirming the 3.3v pwm output, but I can't figure out, from looking at the board and the components, how they negate the voltage.


The main obstacle at this point is generating the negative PWM which seems simple but happens to not be, because I'm too new with electronics.


Anyway, I have help at work, so I'll post instructions (wiring and code) on how to make this work once I've figured out the negative voltage thing. 


@benw: Arduinos are made for kids learning electronics. They are quite capable little beasts. You should check it out. If you have any programming experience at all it will help, but if not you can probably learn bit by bit by osmosis with all the samples that are available.




Patience, patience...


----------



## drjustice

Btw, figured out what needed to be done.


----------



## jeffkrol

drjustice said:


> Btw, figured out what needed to be done.


share...


----------



## drjustice

I am still away and responding on my phone but basically:

Take a wire from the arduino pinout to the +leg of a capacitor. 

Connect -leg of the capacitor to a diode going to ground and

Connect same -leg of the capacitor to voltage out. 

You end up with pwm going from 0 to +5v from the pin, converted to -5v to 0v to Vout. 

It's half of the standard circuit to convert positive pwm voltage to a sustained negative voltage. 

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-483-microcontroller-voltage-inverter-tutorial/

Now I just have to get back home from my week of travel and go ahead and do it.


----------



## jeffkrol

to be honest, I'm more intrigued by pictures of the inside than how you are modding it...


----------



## benw

Great info, thanks! I'm new to micro controllers, but have a decade or so of coding (mainly java & .Net). Haven't done anything with physical electronics in a long time. Interested to learning though.

A buddy of mine gave me his seeeduino along with his working code, luckily it has a 3.3v setting, though unfortunately no real time clock, will have to get the shield.

I have a guy at work to consult with, he seems dubious of the -3.3v. Are you sure that's correct? I agree with you that the pictures look like it is, but it just seems so strange. Any idea why it would be?

edit: didn't see the video post before, I get it now.
orig: If you were to flip the voltage on it wouldn't mirrored across 0v instead of translated down? I'm just speculating, don't know how that's supposed to work.


----------



## Ben Diss

I'm extremely interested in your work here! I have this light and an Apex controller. It would be SOOO cool to be able to get rid of the buggy WiFi module and control the lights directly from the Apex!

If there's anything you need in any way to assist you, please let us know.


----------



## drjustice

So, today I am back home, and I went to the electronics shop and got a couple of diodes. But silly me, I forgot to get a proper capacitor. I only have way-too-large capacitors in my toolbox, and those discharge too slowly to see any kind of proper pwm going at 500-to-1000 Hz.

Also, I don't have the oscilloscope at home, just a plain old multimeter.

BUT! 

I did try the circuit anyway with what I did have around to prove the concept. I made a small voltage divider to go transform the 5V out to 3.3V, then on the arduino I coded ON-OFF (5V-0V) signals every 5 seconds (to let time to my multimeter to adjust). Sure enough, the multimeter reads about 0V to about -3.2V every 5 seconds. Fun.




jeffkrol said:


> to be honest, I'm more intrigued by pictures of the inside than how you are modding it...


I have pictures, just not handy. I'll send them just a little later. But I intend to remove the innards of the WIFI controller and replace all of it with my own mini arduino. 

In the end, it will probably be an esp8266 (aka Adafruit Huzzah) and not an arduino. The whole thing will have cost about 12$ in parts (9$ for the Huzzah and around 3$ for resistors, diode, capacitor). 

https://www.adafruit.com/products/2471




benw said:


> I have a guy at work to consult with, he seems dubious of the -3.3v. Are you sure that's correct?


Well, three of us double-checked it. Yes it seems to be impulses of negative voltage.



benw said:


> Any idea why it would be?


My best guess so far would be that, from the light fixture to the LEDs (near the switch on the fixture, later down the chain from the wifi controller), there's a constant 3.3V voltage applied to the LEDs, and that makes the LEDs light up fully. Then, the wifi controller, in order to make them dim, would thus need to subtract impulses of 3.3v in order for the voltage to go from a constant +3.3v down to 0 momentarily.




Ben Diss said:


> I'm extremely interested in your work here! I have this light and an Apex controller. It would be SOOO cool to be able to get rid of the buggy WiFi module and control the lights directly from the Apex!



Thanks! It'll be a few more days until I have proof of concept. I'll post a video once I have something going. 

Sorry for the slow progress. Just been traveling, then the kids, then work, then... not a lot of time to myself.


----------



## drjustice

*Progress, progress... a little.*

So, I brought the scope from work tonight, so I could play with stuff at home.

In a nutshell, I've managed to put my circuit together so that the PWM goes from 0V down to -3.3V.

But there was a bit of a curveball in there, in that the diodes I use have voltage loss of up to 0.6V, meaning my 3.3V voltage was not perfectly inverted. Instead of going from 0 down to -3.3V, it went from 0.6V down to -2.4V.

Which was a problem. Going out spec with an extra 0.7V meant that I might damage the microcontroller in the LED fixture (I don't know what they're using, so didn't want to play with fire) and -2.4V might not be enough to actuate the PWM cycle.


So I modified my voltage divider by using different resistances (I must admit, I mostly fudged it) and used another diode to clamp out the 0.6V at 0V. With these tweaks I managed to get cycles going from +0.08V down to -3.24V, which is a much more acceptable tolerance although it causes my waveform to not be perfectly square. Which I am pretty sure is OK.


Next step: I'm bringing the arduino and the circuit to work tomorrow, I'll try to hook it up to see if I get blinky.

I'll post pictures then.



====


EDIT: For those who are into electronics, I am using 1N4148 diodes at the moment. I wanted to get Schottky diodes, but my electronics store was out of stock, and I'm not sure where else to get them except online, and it feels kind of studid to pay 14$ shipping for a 0.38$ part.


----------



## drjustice

As promised, an update.

It'll be a short update: it's not working. Yet.

Turns out that the whole -3.3v thing I talked about earlier behaves differently when the light is plugged in, and I take measurements of the scope on the board. Then, I read a PWM signal of 0-10V. 

I'm a bit befuzzled at the moment. I'll have to ask guys at work tomorrow.

There's stuff I obviously don't understand.


----------



## Ben Diss

I wonder if the Apex VDM 0-10v output signal is PWM as well?

Nope: Analog.


----------



## Sennithgrey

Subscribing to this thread. This project is of interest to me as I have one of the Fresh and Plant 2.0 lights and an APEX controller. So anything that can be done to get rid of the buggy wireless controller would be of interest.


----------



## estebanvel

Hi DrJustice.
Nice thread, I'm an electronic engineer and I into fish keeping too, I already create my own Acquarium Arduino controller, and yesterday I finally got my new Fluval 2.0. So obviously I was looking for upgrade my controller to control the new light too and searching for the pinout of the wiring and I found your post, thanks for the information 

- From the wall-wart going into the Wifi controller, only +24V and 0V are connected. The two other wires are actually cut (!!) --> Now I now that I need to control only the PWM signal in 2 pins leaving the +24 as it is, I was worried thinking about DC power supply dimmering for the expensive commponents.

- The 0V and 24V powers a small motherboard that transmits the 0V and 24V at the other end, plus two channels of PWM per light. There are actually markings on the motherboard labeled PWM1 (light 1 - white), PWM2 (light1 - blue), PWM3 (light 2 - white), PWM4 (light 2 - blue). --> Can you check and tell me which of the two PINs from the 4-pins connector is white and which is blue? 

- On the board I see 3.3v voltage regulators, confirming the 3.3v pwm output, but I can't figure out, from looking at the board and the components, how they negate the voltage. --> I will design a circuit to control the Fluval 2.0 completely isolated (optical) from the controller to de compatible with any controller.
I will share everything as soon I finish


----------



## drjustice

It's nice others picking up on this, because at this point I'm stumped with little time to try to debug the darn thing.




estebanvel said:


> Hi DrJustice.
> Nice thread, I'm an electronic engineer and I into fish keeping too, I already create my own Aquarium Arduino controller, and yesterday I finally got my new Fluval 2.0. So obviously I was looking for upgrade my controller to control the new light too and searching for the pinout of the wiring and I found your post, thanks for the information


Be careful, the original pinout I provided is wrong (the part being +/- 5v). Check the rest of the thread first I guess.




> - From the wall-wart going into the Wifi controller, only +24V and 0V are connected. The two other wires are actually cut (!!)





> Now I now that I need to control only the PWM signal in 2 pins leaving the +24 as it is, I was worried thinking about DC power supply dimmering for the expensive commponents.


Yeah, definitely don't try to route the +24V through the PWM channels you'll fry the delicate electronics on the light.



> - The 0V and 24V powers a small motherboard that transmits the 0V and 24V at the other end, plus two channels of PWM per light. There are actually markings on the motherboard labeled PWM1 (light 1 - white), PWM2 (light1 - blue), PWM3 (light 2 - white), PWM4 (light 2 - blue).





> Can you check and tell me which of the two PINs from the 4-pins connector is white and which is blue?


I don't think it matters for your purposes, the PWM is the PWM, and one or the other is going to effect either blue or white channels. 

On the Wifi board, PWM1 controls the white lights, and PWM2 controls blue lights.





> - On the board I see 3.3v voltage regulators, confirming the 3.3v pwm output, but I can't figure out, from looking at the board and the components, how they negate the voltage.





> I will design a circuit to control the Fluval 2.0 completely isolated (optical) from the controller to de compatible with any controller.
> I will share everything as soon I finish


That would be awesome. 

But I doubt you'll be able to do much if you don't get the wifi controller and an oscilloscope.

The reason being, that when I connect the scope to the pinout but I don't actually plug in the light (just to read the PWM signals), I get PWM voltages from 0 to -3.3v.

But when I plug in the light and measure voltages on the wifi board instead of at the pin, I get 0V to like 10V.

I don't understand why the PWM voltage I measure outgoing from the board is different if there's a light attached or not.


----------



## jeffkrol

err, never mind need a second look..

One thing I'm "fairly" certain of is it won't be very straight forward to get it to work w. an Apex..
The 0-10V "native" dim signal is fairly incompatible w/ this system.. unless you convert it to a PWM signal..

OK found a fair picture of the LED board:









Each column is 6 LED in series and each column is joined to the "bus" in parallel..
Which makes perfect sense at 24V (4v or really less since each column has a current limiting rsisitr which will drop the voltage)

Point is the setup is a typical "constant voltage "array w/ no "drivers" per se..
The PWM is simply chopping the supply voltage..
Thus I assume the large MOSFeTS under the output wires accomplishes using a 3.3V "signal" to the base of it.
Why it has what looks like a 24V bypass circuit is beyond me though..

Anyways it looks like the simplist way to control the lights via an Apex would be to 1)convert the apex 0-10V analog to any 
PWM digital out.. (there are add on boards to do this..
2) USE external MOSFETS to "chop" the power supply to the head unit..
That is how any simple "constant voltage" array would be controlled via an APex. Ther may be different solutions using the analog.. but I'm not aware of them (mostly because 
I've never bothered to look..)
NOW the catch is why the bypass???

also note some "bridging" in the led board that I have no idea why it is there..
Just use my "ass-u-ptions" as a guide for the possibilities..
That box should be nothing more than a wireless "unit" some timing chips, voltage regulator to the logic circuit and output of the timing chips (should be 4 either singles or like a quad timing chip).. and asst .support circuitry..
Looks like they may use transistors on the base of the mosfets instead of a timing chip though. Like this..








I'll let the real electronics guys figure it out and correct any errors..


----------



## drjustice

Any news on this? Myself, I haven't had a chance to look at this any further


----------



## MrMan

The fact that +24V and Gnd both go to the unit suggests that it has it's own circuit to control the LEDs, no real surprise there. But considering the WiFi controller can also control the lights if they are in the OFF mode I would assume that the WiFi controller acts in parallel to the on-board circuit. So all you would have to do is replace the WiFi module with your own controlled by an Arduino.

With the WiFi controller running the show what happens if you press the button? Do the lights just go full-bright regardless of what settings you do on the controller? That would back up my theory. Then you'd just have to do something simple to control it like what I've attached, just use the PWM pin of an arduino and make sure grounds are tied together.

Any chance you can read a part number off T1-T4?


----------



## jrygel

jeffkrol said:


> One thing I'm "fairly" certain of is it won't be very straight forward to get it to work w. an Apex..
> The 0-10V "native" dim signal is fairly incompatible w/ this system.. unless you convert it to a PWM signal..




As usual, you are correct: Apex doesn't work with PWM. But, Steve's LEDs makes a controller that converts 0-10V to PWM that can make it pretty straightforward.


Aquarium Controller Interface Harness - Steve's LEDs, discount DIY LED supplies


-Justin


----------



## jeffkrol

jrygel said:


> As usual, you are correct: Apex doesn't work with PWM. But, Steve's LEDs makes a controller that converts 0-10V to PWM that can make it pretty straightforward.
> 
> 
> Aquarium Controller Interface Harness - Steve's LEDs, discount DIY LED supplies
> 
> 
> -Justin


Once you get those you can just get 2 MOSFETS (and asst. circuitry) and connect the Apex now PWM out to the base ..
Eliminating the Wifi controller all together..
All you need to do is connect the power circuit to them.. 
Trying to hack the controller is a bit redundant since it is nothing more than a "apex" type processor w/ wifi..(well Aduino really)
and since you won't be using the wifi...or the secondary channel .

You just have 2 constant voltage channels to regulate..


----------



## Sennithgrey

What are the connector on the Fluval WiFi controller called and where can I get them?


----------



## benw

It's a waterproof 4 pin barrel connector, I don't know the diameter though (not sure where to measure). The only ones I've been able to get so far have been too big or too small, trying some off amazon but they are taking a long time to come from china.


----------



## MeiklesAndDimes

This is very interesting information! Thank you for sharing. 

I have two 24" fresh and plant LED lights with the wifi controller. I have been having an issue where the lights will suddenly turn blue. The lights will turn off, then briefly flash white, then turn blue. To fix this I need to log back into the wifi controller. As soon as I log back in the lights will return to normal. 

I have noticed that the power adapters for my lights get very hot! Almost too hot to touch. I know this is not good. I have orders two 24V 3A switching power adapters to replace the original fluval branded 24V 1A adapters. 

My theory is that the power adapters are unable to supply enough power to the lights and controller. The power adapters will then temporary switch off, then back on. The lights only seem to misbehave when they are running on full power. 

Has anyone else experienced an issue with the power adapters heating up or lights randomly turning blue with the wifi controller?


----------



## Ben Diss

MeiklesAndDimes said:


> This is very interesting information! Thank you for sharing.
> 
> I have two 24" fresh and plant LED lights with the wifi controller. I have been having an issue where the lights will suddenly turn blue. The lights will turn off, then briefly flash white, then turn blue. To fix this I need to log back into the wifi controller. As soon as I log back in the lights will return to normal.
> 
> I have noticed that the power adapters for my lights get very hot! Almost too hot to touch. I know this is not good. I have orders two 24V 3A switching power adapters to replace the original fluval branded 24V 1A adapters.
> 
> My theory is that the power adapters are unable to supply enough power to the lights and controller. The power adapters will then temporary switch off, then back on. The lights only seem to misbehave when they are running on full power.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced an issue with the power adapters heating up or lights randomly turning blue with the wifi controller?


Yes. I have one 36" Planted 2.0 and occasionally the schedule misbehaves. Logging in to the WiFi module corrects this. I'd love to be able to ditch their controller and use my Apex instead.


----------



## Sennithgrey

@MeiklesAndDimes: I did a review in the Lighting forum on the wireless controller under the Fluval Plant LED 2.0 thread. I suspect that misbehaving wireless controller is due to WiFi or other electronic interference.


----------



## blakers34

Could you supply me with the website where you purchased this 24V 3A power supply?
Mine ended up getting so hot it melted a spot in the casing.


----------



## Martin Nyborg Sørensen

Dont know if anybody did make this work.. i know i did 

Found out that the PWM signal just have to be a GND pwm !! used a TIP122 to do this and then it works like a charm.

The wiring is :

yellow = GND
White = 24v
Red = All whites and red leds
Black = Blue.

So just feed gnd/gnd pwm to red and black and you can control it.

https://youtu.be/kPqia2FrTJo


----------



## jeffkrol

TC-420 should work



> Five CMOS drain -open output Connecting Mode: Common anode Max load current: 4A each color


----------



## Martin Nyborg Sørensen

*Tc420*

Dont know about the TC420.. im building my own controller with 4 channels for light on a Arduino.


----------



## jeffkrol

Martin Nyborg Sørensen said:


> Dont know about the TC420.. im building my own controller with 4 channels for light on a Arduino.


What current is the outputs rated for?
Strip lighting (like the above) PWM-lates the full current draw..
Aduino PWM is like 3-5.5 and capable of little in current draw..

You will need to pwm power MOSFETs if you are planning constant voltage strips..like the Fluval/Beamswork/Sat./finnex..if you are going to control things like a Meanwell LDD
that is a differnt story..


----------



## fishman922

Aha. I was waiting for someone to verify the pins and PWM method in the light. Quick question, when you say ground pwm are you saying that we are controlling the cathode side of the LEDs? (EG if I put the red wire straight to ground i get a lit light?)
Either way a power MOSFET would be necessary, far too much current to pull out of an arduino. Although I wonder if you could just use a motor shield with a high enough current rating...


----------



## jeffkrol

"I" can't say for sure w/ the Fluval. I do know that when a Finnex planted plus was "split"into 3 channels (RWB) it was found that they used "negative" as common but the TC-420 was positive ground.. so, since the tc-420 had built in MOSFETS but of the wrong config, they had to be reversed..thus the external ones.. Just throwing this in for reference sake..








not an issue if building from scratch..

PNP Mosfet or NPN mosfet will depend on the Fluval common ground polarity..

TC-420 is really a "pre-programmed Aduino in a box with MOSFET output"....

http://www.tc420.net/connecting-high-power-LEDs-to-the-TC420.php


----------



## Brian Rodgers

Great project thank you for sharing


----------



## BettaBettas

this project makes a sophomore feel like this


----------



## fishman922

jeffkrol said:


> "I" can't say for sure w/ the Fluval. I do know that when a Finnex planted plus was "split"into 3 channels (RWB) it was found that they used "negative" as common but the TC-420 was positive ground.. so, since the tc-420 had built in MOSFETS but of the wrong config, they had to be reversed..thus the external ones.. Just throwing this in for reference sake..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not an issue if building from scratch..
> 
> PNP Mosfet or NPN mosfet will depend on the Fluval common ground polarity..
> 
> TC-420 is really a "pre-programmed Aduino in a box with MOSFET output"....
> 
> Connecting high power LEDs to the TC420


Maybe I missed this in analog, but how could we tell the common ground polarity of an LED without physically looking at it?
Is it as simple as probing the light between the +24 and the individual channels?

Bump:


BettaBettas said:


> this project makes a sophomore feel like this


I am a Junior (Computer engineering) and while I understand it it's not all fully clear.
You will know all about MOSFETS soon enough...


----------



## benw

Is that a Bluetooth LE module on your Arduino? If it is I wrote an android app that interfaces with mine, just got it all together yesterday. Works pretty decent. Day/Night progress bars indicate current lamp levels.


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

MeiklesAndDimes said:


> Has anyone else experienced an issue with the power adapters heating up or lights randomly turning blue with the wifi controller?


Hi @Sennithgrey,

I started the comparison thread on the Fluval F&P 2.0 and I had that issue when I purchased my second fixture to use on my 75 gallon in conjunction with 2X55W AH Supply power compact fixtures. The new Fluval F&P 2.0 would rapidly cycle between off/all/blue only over and over. 

I found the problem, the electronic ballasts for the power compact fixtures which were mounted inside the fixtures were putting out electromagnetic interference (EMI) that was causing the issue - not running the power compact fixtures resolved the problem. I am in the process of re-wiring my power compact fixtures to relocate the ballasts for the power compact fixtures away from the Fluval F&P 2.0 and eliminate the EMI issues.


----------



## LS6 Tommy

I've been following this even though I know ZERO about electronics. I had (2) original Fluval fresh/plant lights with the standard 3.5mm power plug. One of the power supplies died and Fluval gave me a new 2.0 as there are no replacement power supplies anymore. I had planned on getting a controller next, but now Fluval has changed to a proprietary cable setup. 

In a nutshell, I'm looking for a hack a stooge could do to convert the 2.0 to a 3.5mm plug to use production controllers other than the Fluval wifi unit or a way to rewire it to use aftermarket controllers that are stooge friendly like the TC420.

Tommy


----------



## jeffkrol

https://www.ez-robot.com/uploads/tip120-634981848140986328.jpg

Found out that the PWM signal just have to be a GND pwm !! used a TIP122 to do this and then it works like a charm.



> The wiring is :
> yellow = GND
> White = 24v
> Red = All whites and red leds
> Black = Blue.
> 
> So just feed gnd/gnd pwm to red and black and you can control it.
> 
> https://youtu.be/kPqia2FrTJo


all info is actually here.. He used a transistor as a "switch" on the ground side in which case you may be able to use a tc-420 directly.. Need to verify..
Tc-420 "pulses" ground.. White wire is a power "pass through" I believe..

some more astute geeks need to clean this up..it isn't difficult


----------



## TwistedStems

Hi all i am new to this group and have been watching its progress, Great work !

I have found this module online that may be of use to the Apex neptune users out there.
I havent tried it but it seems to meet the criteria found in the thread. including the 1KHz pwm and open-collector NPN drive. Taken that you could attach this inline with the 24v supply and connect the 0-10v from the apex to the input. you would need 2 of these for the white and blues. 

Quote:
"This is a linear transformation module, processing by the internal chip, the input voltage signal is converted to 0～100%PWM output signal. 
There are two output voltage and two frequency ranges to choose.

Module parameters
1, the working voltage : 9V ~ 24V
2, the input voltage range : 0.00V ~ 5.00V / 0.00V ~ 10.00V
3, the output frequency range: 1KHz / 8KHz 
4, the output duty cycle range: 0 to 100% 
5, the input mode: J1 pads on the circuit board: Open (0 ~ 5V); shorted (0 ~ 10V). default is open. 
6, output: J2 pads on the circuit board: open (1KHz); short (8KHz), the default is open. 
7, drive mode: open-collector NPN drive, the maximum current 200MA, external voltage range of 1 ~ 30V. 
8, Applications: Remote data acquisition and control equipment; 
9, Size: (L) 26mm * (W) 23mm * (height) 10mm 

Module interfaces: 
24V: positive power supply interfaces (9V ~ 24V). 
G: Power to the ground interface. 
IN: positive signal input interface. 
G: negative signal input interface. 
OUT: Signal output interfaces (1KHz/8KHz). 
G: Power to the ground interface. 
Input voltage selection: J1 pad 
Open: Input (0.00V ~ 5.00V) output corresponding to 0 to 100% duty cycle pulse signal. 
Short: Input (0.00V ~ 10.00V) output corresponding to 0 to 100% duty cycle pulse signal.
Output frequency selection: J2 pad 
Open: 1KHz pulse output signal. 
Short: 8KHz pulse signal output."

[Ebay Link Removed] Voltage to PWM 0-5v 0-10v to PWM 0-100% Linear Conversion Transmitter Module | eBay[/url]

Keywords searched : Voltage to PWM 0-5v 0-10v to PWM 0-100% Linear Conversion Transmitter Module

Anyone with a apex tried this ?


----------



## MrMan

TwistedStems said:


> Hi all i am new to this group and have been watching its progress, Great work !
> 
> I have found this module online that may be of use to the Apex neptune users out there.
> I havent tried it but it seems to meet the criteria found in the thread. including the 1KHz pwm and open-collector NPN drive. Taken that you could attach this inline with the 24v supply and connect the 0-10v from the apex to the input. you would need 2 of these for the white and blues.
> 
> Quote:
> "This is a linear transformation module, processing by the internal chip, the input voltage signal is converted to 0～100%PWM output signal.
> There are two output voltage and two frequency ranges to choose.
> 
> Module parameters
> 1, the working voltage : 9V ~ 24V
> 2, the input voltage range : 0.00V ~ 5.00V / 0.00V ~ 10.00V
> 3, the output frequency range: 1KHz / 8KHz
> 4, the output duty cycle range: 0 to 100%
> 5, the input mode: J1 pads on the circuit board: Open (0 ~ 5V); shorted (0 ~ 10V). default is open.
> 6, output: J2 pads on the circuit board: open (1KHz); short (8KHz), the default is open.
> 7, drive mode: open-collector NPN drive, the maximum current 200MA, external voltage range of 1 ~ 30V.
> 8, Applications: Remote data acquisition and control equipment;
> 9, Size: (L) 26mm * (W) 23mm * (height) 10mm
> 
> Module interfaces:
> 24V: positive power supply interfaces (9V ~ 24V).
> G: Power to the ground interface.
> IN: positive signal input interface.
> G: negative signal input interface.
> OUT: Signal output interfaces (1KHz/8KHz).
> G: Power to the ground interface.
> Input voltage selection: J1 pad
> Open: Input (0.00V ~ 5.00V) output corresponding to 0 to 100% duty cycle pulse signal.
> Short: Input (0.00V ~ 10.00V) output corresponding to 0 to 100% duty cycle pulse signal.
> Output frequency selection: J2 pad
> Open: 1KHz pulse output signal.
> Short: 8KHz pulse signal output."
> 
> [Ebay Link Removed] Voltage to PWM 0-5v 0-10v to PWM 0-100% Linear Conversion Transmitter Module | eBay[/url]
> 
> Keywords searched : Voltage to PWM 0-5v 0-10v to PWM 0-100% Linear Conversion Transmitter Module
> 
> Anyone with a apex tried this ?


Wording is a bit confusing but it sounds like the output is an NPN collector which would work except it's only rated for 200mA. But you could just use a resistor to turn this into a normal signal that you'd wire up to a larger NPN/FET to run the lights.


----------



## jeffkrol

Like stated above, the dinky MOSFET on that board won't take the current from the lights...



> There are two output voltage and two frequency ranges to choose.


That didn't help either, I assume they mean "input"..


----------



## TwistedStems

I was thinking of passing the 24v from the wall wart straight to the light and just pull a wire to supply this 24v as well using this to generate the pwm signals at 200mA.

Just need to find out what plugs they are to make my junction box.


----------



## jeffkrol

TwistedStems said:


> I was thinking of passing the 24v from the wall wart straight to the light and just pull a wire to supply this 24v as well using this to generate the pwm signals at 200mA.
> 
> Just need to find out what plugs they are to make my junction box.


The PWM for the lights "switches" full current regardless of the "control signal"...

It is just like the strip lighting..which is happy w/ things like this:
555 timing chip circuitry feeding the gate if an internal MOSFET rated at 8A..

This is a $4 hacked PWM dimmer rated at 8A.. just bypassed the MOSFET to feed LDD's. Doesn't apply in this case but this is the "theory" behind most of these dim circuits in strip type lights since they run constant voltage..
You need to pulse each channel at full current..









http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMshyDBzk1/Wi1F3z9PgzPBnjAas2zQPJco= 



> This can be dealt with by using a high power NPN or N-Channel MOSFET, such as an IRF510 used here. This MOSFET is rated for 5.6 Amps which is enough to power about 9 meters with 30 LEDs per meter. The MOSFET acts as a switch which that is opened to all the higher voltage flow to the strip. For more details on how a MOSFET works check out bildr's tutorial. It allows control signals to be sent from the PWM pins on the Edison and for it to be turned on or fade when the Edison tell's it to.


regardless of the control circuit, you need to handle amps..
I can't picture how you can possibly do it your way.. but ??
Intro to LED Strips: 9 Steps (with Pictures)

Using that board you just need to tap the gate leg and run it to a lager power mosfet.. That part runs your lights..


----------



## TwistedStems

I seem to have got confused after the drawing in MrMan post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-06-2016, 08:02 PM. i will look into the Mosfets, fingers crossed i dont blow the fitting !

Thanks


----------



## jeffkrol

TwistedStems said:


> I seem to have got confused after the drawing in MrMan post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old 04-06-2016, 08:02 PM. i will look into the Mosfets, fingers crossed i dont blow the fitting !
> 
> Thanks


Note the large MOSFETS behind the wires. the "control circuit" opens the gates (PWM output) to full current going through them..
controller allows power pass through..AFAICT thus 4 wires not 3..
One side.. one light.. 2 channels each "circuit"..There is an independent control circuit in the light head, which should of course be turned off if using the module..









all of course as I see it.. YMMV..


----------



## TwistedStems

Has anyone managed to find compatable plugs and sockets for the fluval plugs so i dont have to cut the cable?


----------



## spacepost

I ordered several different ones from china off of ebay, but wasn't able to find ones that actually fit. I found some that were similar but they weren't quite the right size. What I ended up doing is opening up the power supply and unsoldering the connector leading out of the brick and replacing it with one of my ebay finds and then I took the connector I removed and reused that for hooking the light up to my raspberry pi.

The power supply was actually pretty easy to open up compared to some of the others that I've opened. I just put it in a vise at an angle and squeezed it until it opened up enough to pry it open with a screwdriver. There were 2 blobs of some sort of white caulking that hold the circuit board to the case. I just used the screw driver to scrape it away and it popped right out.


----------



## LS6 Tommy

I'm still somewhat confused. No one knows if there's a way to cut the end off the connectors, burn in standard 3.5mm male on the power supply and a 3.5mm female on the light so the aftermarket controllers can be used? I see the factory setup has (4) wires. I'm going to take a guess that the power supply sends (1) pair of wires for the "white" LEDs and (1) pair for the "blue"? 

Tommy


----------



## jeffkrol

As posted earlier and all assumptions lead to you have a channel "common", 2 pwm-lated wires and a power bypass to power thecircuitry on the light head.
Should be able to use only 3 wires w/ 3rd party controllers..


----------



## rbennett

0-10vDC to each of the "PWM*" wires will dim the lights. 0vDC = full brightness, 10vdc = off, 5vDC = 50%, and so on.

This is NOT true PWM, using the term PWM for this is incorrect and whomever built the board simply labeled it as PWM even though it is not.


----------



## jeffkrol

Hmmm.. Can't see that being correct..though hard to argue if it works that way and is different than most "simple" constant voltage arrays...
There would be no need for the 4 large power MOSFETS on the board..

nor would 10-0V dimming require such large wires..
Besides few drivers using 0-10v actually work backwards besides constant current buckpucks.....


----------



## jondrums

rbennett said:


> 0-10vDC to each of the "PWM*" wires will dim the lights. 0vDC = full brightness, 10vdc = off, 5vDC = 50%, and so on.
> 
> This is NOT true PWM, using the term PWM for this is incorrect and whomever built the board simply labeled it as PWM even though it is not.


Hi rbennett, 
I saw your post and signed up just to respond. I have a Fluval 2.0 and I am capable of wiring it up with 0-10V signals but before I do, I have to ask - can you share a tiny bit more of how you came about this info? Have you got yours set up this way?

As a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if the input to the controller works with *either* PWM or analog 0-10V. Much easier for a microcontroller to make pwm, and not hard for the controller to have a low pass filter on the input. Maybe the Fluval controller DOES use PWM and thus is labelled correctly, but the light works with either.
Jon


----------



## jeffkrol

I'm going to try this again because I "feel" I'm correct , so bear with me.

These strip type constant voltage lights are most easily controlled when one "pulses" the output.. full load.

in the picture above you see what looks like 4 large MOSFET (T1-4) "switches" on the output.
Each probably driven "open" w/ a 5V or like (could be 10v logic) signal to the gate..
Then "pulsing" the full 24V output.. like any "normal" strip light control..
in other words you PWM the 24v output to the lights, full current..not apply a pwm "signal" to another driver..

You can't use a VOM (normally) to tell since most will average the output i.e 24V @ 50% duty cycle will "look" like 12V to the meter..

At constant voltage arrays there are no proper "drivers" to control..just control the duty cycle of the 24V line..

substute their "black box" circuit for the uno, change voltage to 24v










Tricky part is to determine if the pulse the anode or cathode side..
Many pulse the negative side treating positive as "common" (most likely NPN Mosfets)


----------



## jondrums

jeffkrol said:


> I'm going to try this again because I "feel" I'm correct , so bear with me.
> 
> These strip type constant voltage lights are most easily controlled when one "pulses" the output.. full load.


I'm not so sure you are correct. On my light, the 4 pin connector is simply connected to the power supply, which supplies 24V and GND to two of the pins. There is a small button on top of the light itself which cycles through white or blue and if you hold it down it dims the light. That means there is a full featured controller in the light itself. So it is reasonable to me that this controller could accept a 0-10V signal.


----------



## jeffkrol

jondrums said:


> I'm not so sure you are correct. On my light, the 4 pin connector is simply connected to the power supply, which supplies 24V and GND to two of the pins. There is a small button on top of the light itself which cycles through white or blue and if you hold it down it dims the light. That means there is a full featured controller in the light itself. So it is reasonable to me that this controller could accept a 0-10V signal.


Yes.. there is a duplicate circuit in the light head..but probably run basically the same way.. 
In my way of thinking exactly why you have the "bypass" on the add on controller..

Because of that secondary 
I am leary of offering tests for the controller though if one had the external and not use the light head it would be easy to test..

Put a VOM between "PWM" and positive (assuming common positive ground). Cycle through that channel dimming from 10-100%.. Check voltage.. @ 100% should be 24V AT 10% not 24V.. 
A oscilloscope would show the pulsations..

this is as "full featured" as the light head itself.. well 1 channel..
nothing more than a PWM MOSFET run,controller on the 12V line


----------



## jondrums

I'm almost certain that this is the connector pair on my light. No measurements available, but the photo has exactly the same shapes and features as my connector. Does anyone know where to get a small quantity of these? Looks like minimum buy is qty500

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/4PIN-M14-MINI-Waterproof-Connector-for_60631247828.html


----------



## jondrums

Here's the manufacturer:
M14 2Pin standard Waterproof Connector
4PIN Male:AH-SD03-M14-S-M-04
4PIN Female:AH-SD03-M14-S-F-04

Found a dubious chinese link to order 50 pairs for $75 shipped. Still too expensive


----------



## jondrums

Found the GND and 24V pins on the power supply connector. The other two pins appear to be unconnected on the power supply side.


----------



## jeffkrol

Right.. they won't be connected in the power supply..
Just powers the logic in the light head(converted to 5V to feed it) and the lights themselves..

If your not using the accessory dimmer the circuitry (and MOSFET switches) are inside..


----------



## jondrums

I've got my hack working great!
Cost $40 + Shipping and a few parts I had laying around (power cord, ring terminals, wire, screws, zip-tie)
I cut the cable/connector off the original fluval power supply, which was a leap of faith but obviously worked out. 

Controller
Power Supply


----------



## Narlyboy

Hi Jondrums, 
Is this setup fully working with the Fluval 2.0 led and tc420? Interested to also try this but apprehensive about trashing my LEDs. Can you setup a full dimming schedule?
Cheers


----------



## sim5000

*Fluval Hack Tried but problem with dimming*

Found this thread and a little similar to what im trying. 
Sorry i dont have an electronics background just electrical.

Basically trying to control this via profilux controller. 

Ive added a interface to convert 0/1-10v from the profilux to PWM.
Its 4 channel. LT-704-5A (Spec can be found online)
Everything work great when controlling via profilux till i seen something not right last night.
The Blue moon was on about 50% dim (Ramp Down) & all of a sudden the white lights flashed on all of a sudden. 
I put a tester on the interface and channel 1 input was 0v but channel 1 output was about 5 volts.
Channel 2 was also at about 5v input & output, which was correct with the schedule.

I haven't grounded the negative as i didn't believe it was necessary but will try tonight & see if it make a difference.

From what i believe
1 channel brings all led's on (white, blue, purple & red)
2 Channel brings only blues on

The power supply im using is mean well lpv-60-24 which should be more than adequate.
Fluval one seems to have over heated under normal use & cracked on the housing making the internals visible (Not Good!)


Any help would be appreciated


----------



## jeffkrol

jondrums said:


> I've got my hack working great!
> Cost $40 + Shipping and a few parts I had laying around (power cord, ring terminals, wire, screws, zip-tie)
> I cut the cable/connector off the original fluval power supply, which was a leap of faith but obviously worked out.
> 
> Controller
> Power Supply


good job.. and how I've envisioned it.. 
0-100% duty cycle on the 24V line..


----------



## Narlyboy

These look like the correct plugs I think?
Search EBay for: Pair 4P Male to Female Waterproof Connector Cable for LED Lamp Light Strips

Might order anyway....


----------



## jeffkrol

sim5000 said:


> Found this thread and a little similar to what im trying.
> Sorry i dont have an electronics background just electrical.
> 
> Basically trying to control this via profilux controller.
> 
> Ive added a interface to convert 0/1-10v from the profilux to PWM.
> Its 4 channel. LT-704-5A (Spec can be found online)
> Everything work great when controlling via profilux till i seen something not right last night.
> The Blue moon was on about 50% dim (Ramp Down) & all of a sudden the white lights flashed on all of a sudden.
> I put a tester on the interface and channel 1 input was 0v but channel 1 output was about 5 volts.
> Channel 2 was also at about 5v input & output, which was correct with the schedule.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't grounded the negative as i didn't believe it was necessary but will try tonight & see if it make a difference.
> 
> From what i believe
> 1 channel brings all led's on (white, blue, purple & red)
> 2 Channel brings only blues on
> 
> The power supply im using is mean well lpv-60-24 which should be more than adequate.
> Fluval one seems to have over heated under normal use & cracked on the housing making the internals visible (Not Good!)
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated



What are you hooking up to the 0-10v side???

On the output side (24V) the voltage "actually" doesn't change (most of the time) but duty cycle does.
At 5V you are 5/24 = 20%.. or thereabouts..

Your output/power side should be identical to the TC-420..


----------



## sim5000

Profilux 4 (similar to apex) is controlling the 2 channels with its 0/1-10v ports.

I connected the grnd last night as you have in the TC-420 and it didn't happen again.
Ill let it run a few more days and see.
Hopefully all is fine.

amazon.co.uk ASIN	B018RSTY4O
I used these connectors. Not a perfect fit, but gently heating it does the trick.
Ordered loads of different types over a period and was about giving up to find one to match the fluval.


----------



## jeffkrol

AFAICT.. 



> Ive added a interface to convert 0/1-10v from the profilux to PWM.


This is unnecessary..


Profilux 0-10V out .. Dimmer 0-10v...


----------



## jondrums

Narlyboy said:


> These look like the correct plugs I think?
> Search EBay for: Pair 4P Male to Female Waterproof Connector Cable for LED Lamp Light Strips


Everything I found on Ebay is the opposite polarity. You could most likely make them work but they won't screw together with a seal.



Narlyboy said:


> Hi Jondrums,
> Is this setup fully working with the Fluval 2.0 led and tc420? Interested to also try this but apprehensive about trashing my LEDs. Can you setup a full dimming schedule?
> Cheers


Yes, it is working and you can do a full dimming schedule for white and blue independently.



jeffkrol said:


> good job.. and how I've envisioned it..
> 0-100% duty cycle on the 24V line..


Yup, you were right. works like a charm - thanks.

Bump:


sim5000 said:


> I connected the grnd last night as you have in the TC-420 and it didn't happen again.
> Ill let it run a few more days and see.
> Hopefully all is fine.


I bet that will work for good.

The light's built in controller overrides the dimming inputs if the ground is active AND you use the button to turn it on. The thing is that the built in controller remembers the last state it was in, so people can use simple AC timers to turn it on and off. I am willing to bet that when you left the ground hanging loose, that the built in controller was sitting ready to turn on the white light whenever it is powered up - then the ground either made contact or the light built up enough static potential (?? or something) to turn it on briefly.

I wired up the ground so that my wife can override the program using the button anytime she chooses. That way she won't open up the cabinet and start pushing buttons on the TC420... :surprise:


----------



## ayrtonreis

*How about using this with two Fluval A3992?*

How would you suggest hooking two Fluvals A3992 into this setup ? Simply "doubling" it all or using one RGBSIGHT and two Power Supplys ?

Btw.... GREAT WORK !!! Kudos !!! :grin2:

Ayrton




jondrums said:


> I've got my hack working great!
> Cost $40 + Shipping and a few parts I had laying around (power cord, ring terminals, wire, screws, zip-tie)
> I cut the cable/connector off the original fluval power supply, which was a leap of faith but obviously worked out.
> 
> Controller
> Power Supply


----------



## jeffkrol

As long as the power supply is rated for the load (2 x the channel) 
and you don't exceed 4-5A per channel (if you "gang" the 2).. shouldn't be a problem.
The TC-420 MOSFETS aren't rated at more than 4A continuous DC if I remember correctly..
Amp capacity rises w/ lower duty cycles (less ON time) ..

Best to use 2 more channels..(3,4)

AS above, apparently the MOSFETS seem to be more robust than their 4A rating but can't recommend anything past "rated" At your own risk.


----------



## ayrtonreis

jeffkrol said:


> As long as the power supply is rated for the load (2 x the channel)
> and you don't exceed 4-5A per channel (if you "gang" the 2).. shouldn't be a problem.
> The TC-420 MOSFETS aren't rated at more than 4A continuous DC if I remember correctly..
> Amp capacity rises w/ lower duty cycles (less ON time) ..
> 
> Best to use 2 more channels..(3,4)
> 
> AS above, apparently the MOSFETS seem to be more robust than their 4A rating but can't recommend anything past "rated" At your own risk.


Thanks, that was exactly what I was thinking.... I will place two A3992 over my tank (big one ! - 300 gl) .. So I was wondering if I should duplicate your setup above or could use one TC420 to allow better control of the two lamps... But I think I will duplicate and sync their clocks.... Still thinking...

Thanks anyway !

Ayrton


----------



## ayrtonreis

Me again... one more question : does anyone have the pinout for the Fluval connectors ? I will try searching for spare connectors and would love to use them instead of opening the original ones....


----------



## Seattle_Aquarist

jondrums said:


> I've got my hack working great!
> Cost $40 + Shipping and a few parts I had laying around (power cord, ring terminals, wire, screws, zip-tie)
> I cut the cable/connector off the original fluval power supply, which was a leap of faith but obviously worked out.
> 
> Controller
> Power Supply


Hi @jondrums,

Very nice clean looking build and layout; the power supply on the right replaces the 'brick' that comes with the Fluval? I assume you can control light intensity but for what color LED's?

Do you possibly have a list of parts and part numbers for your build?


----------



## jeffkrol

Power supply sort of depends on what size and/or how many Fluvals you want to run.. One pictured is 50W 24V..
Match your needs to that
This is an lrs-100-24
So LRS-XX(X)-24
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/260/lrs-100-spec-752931.pdf
Channels are all or just blue I "think" 
Might be all but blue and blue
Whatever you can do w/ the "built" in controller..but more of course..
TC-420's are sort of everywhere.. Cheapest are about $24.. price varies by vendor..


----------



## jondrums

ayrtonreis said:


> Thanks, that was exactly what I was thinking.... I will place two A3992 over my tank (big one ! - 300 gl) .. So I was wondering if I should duplicate your setup above or could use one TC420 to allow better control of the two lamps... But I think I will duplicate and sync their clocks


No need to use two TC420. Add the second light on the next two channels. I suggest doubling the current output of the power supply from the one I selected.



ayrtonreis said:


> Me again... one more question : does anyone have the pinout for the Fluval connectors ? I will try searching for spare connectors and would love to use them instead of opening the original ones....


The pinout for the fluval is further back in the thread here



Seattle_Aquarist said:


> Very nice clean looking build and layout; the power supply on the right replaces the 'brick' that comes with the Fluval? I assume you can control light intensity but for what color LED's?
> 
> Do you possibly have a list of parts and part numbers for your build?


Yes, the brick that comes with the light is total trash and the power supply replaces that. You could almost certainly use that power supply if you were really trying to save $$, but I personally wouldn't because it seems like it is underrated and overheats.

The two channels on the Fluval control white LEDs and blue LEDs. You can control intensity of each from 0-100%. I have the blue light coming on for a few hours in the evening because it looks cool.

There are links in the original post you quoted which show the power supply and controller. I got the controller on amazon and the power supply from Jameco.


----------



## Narlyboy

If you are concerned about trashing the Fluval plug when connecting to the TC420 use these:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...0_QL65&keywords=sourcingmap+4p+male+to+female

I just received it and it works a treat. Took a few weeks to ship but much cleaner install now and no worries about warranties


----------



## jeffkrol

nice find. Plugs can be annoying..


----------



## ayrtonreis

So, finally found some weekend time to go over it. Thanks @jondrums for the fantastic post. Here goes a couple of pictures of my setup, using a LR-150-24 and the TC420 for controlling two Fluval 48 inch.



















I've also put together an excel file to help me with programming the TC420. Quite simple but can be re-used by anyone. It is straight forward ...

https://ibm.box.com/shared/static/hq84q71xhen6a05jq25cy8i09sv2razy.xlsx


----------



## Kaiede

Literally registered to say thanks for the details in this thread. Lots of interesting tidbits in here as I am doing my own LED hacking. 

Thanks to the folks that contributed, like @jondrums for sharing the completed build. It's actually awesome to know that the Fluval Fresh is fairly straight-forward to modify here and take control of. That's rather nice to see. 
@ayrtonreis, thanks for the spreadsheet, with some tweaks, that will be super helpful as I play with some lighting plans myself. 

Thanks as well to @sim5000, since that part is perfect for controlling these common anode configurations from something like a ReefKeeper or Apex setup, Although the cost difference between those and a TC-420 + Ranco is _huge_ for my simple setup, I'll want to keep that part in mind in case I ever do make the jump. 

I'll add that this seems to be a bit of a trend for Fluval though. I've been playing with the stock Vista LEDs prior to finding this thread, and they have a similar setup. 2 channel common anode. Only difference is that the interesting plug is on the other end of the LED controller, meaning you cut it completely out of the loop, and no need for the 4th pin that acts as ground for the LED controller on the Fresh 2.0. So I've got a TC-420 running the stock lights for a low-light tank for me now. Catch is, that like the 4-pin waterproof connector Fluval uses for the Fresh, the Vista uses a 3-pin waterproof connector that is nearly impossible to find a good match for. I've included the pinout just in case someone finds it useful.


----------



## Anakin

Hello, I am from Spain. I have the new fluvial led 2.0 and I am searching how to dimmer the lights. I have read this discussions but I don't find what are the connections between lamp wire and TC420.

I think that I can configure two channels (white and moon) but in which pins I have to connect it?

Any diagram?

Thanks and regards


----------



## Anakin

Anybody can help me?

I need to know how the wires must be connected between TC420 and fluvial led.

Help! thanks


----------



## jeffkrol

Anakin said:


> Anybody can help me?
> 
> I need to know how the wires must be connected between TC420 and fluvial led.
> 
> Help! thanks


It is all here








From TC-420 to light head
Yellow negative (not sure that is needed. Think it is a bypass so you can use the controller on the light unit itself.) 
White positive
black ch1
red ch 2

Power supply to TC-430 "should be " 
yellow negative
White positive

.Positive and negative off the power supply goes to "input" 
VERIFY positive and negative ..

It is your investment.. proceed w/ caution.


----------



## Anakin

Where I can find a compatible connector?
What pins is each color?

THANKS A LOT!!!!


----------



## Anakin

Hello, I have received the TC420, but I didn't cut the wires so I don't know what colour belong to each pin.

How I have to connect the TC420 channels to this connector?

Thanks


----------



## Anakin

I did it!.
Just connect one wire in wich connector. Now it works.

Thanks.


----------



## james211

So did anyone actually figure out how to control with an apex or profilux?


----------



## jeffkrol

CONCEPT is easy.. Easier for the Profilux...

BEST to convert the 0-10V analog on the APEX to a PWM signal.
Use that signal to cycle a high power MOSFET for the regulation of the constant voltage
Profilux states PWM dimming is native so no need for conversion.

W/ the right design ANY type of positive PWM will do..
Should be fairly simple for electronic geeks.










Just substitute Aduino for any PWM source..

All above my paygrade..

There may even be "boxes" out there that will do this.. Not sure..
Well looky here.. Seems it would do the trick for the Apex

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Constant-voltage-0-10V-Dimmable-led_1320221805.html


----------



## Dave Mate

Hello,

Thank you for all the information, i'm not the best with electronics but this thread makes it look doable.

Couple of questions:
I would really like to be able to have different time programs on the weekend, can the tc420 be set up over 7 days or just 24 hours?

If not is there a similar controller i could sub in?

Thank you for your time


----------



## jmr9425

I went through all of this and wired up my lights yesterday. Thanks to all involved. I'm running the Fluval PRO 2.0 series reef lights but the wiring is all the same. I figured I would post my setup as a contribution to the effort and in case it will help anyone else. 

I purchased the following from amazon: UXCELL A16111800UX0041 & TC420 Controller

I used the power supply that came with the lights, eventually I may replace it with a different one, but it's running for now. 

In my configuration, CH1 = White LED's & CH2 = Blue LED's

NOTE: Pin numbers in my schematic are arbitrary and only used to keep things straight. As far as I know these connectors don't have any pin numbering on them. 










I also designed & 3d printed a terminal cover and added 'strain relief' functionality using the zip ties. 

TC420 LED Controller Terminal Cover


----------



## jmr9425

Dave Mate said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thank you for all the information, i'm not the best with electronics but this thread makes it look doable.
> 
> Couple of questions:
> I would really like to be able to have different time programs on the weekend, can the tc420 be set up over 7 days or just 24 hours?
> 
> If not is there a similar controller i could sub in?
> 
> Thank you for your time


From my experience the TC420 is a 24H timer. You could setup a different program for the weekend, but you would have to change back and forth between programs manually. I believe the controller can store something like 50 programs that can be cycled through and activated from the device.


----------



## LS6 Tommy

jmr9425 said:


> I went through all of this and wired up my lights yesterday. Thanks to all involved. I'm running the Fluval PRO 2.0 series reef lights but the wiring is all the same. I figured I would post my setup as a contribution to the effort and in case it will help anyone else.
> 
> I purchased the following from amazon: UXCELL A16111800UX0041 & TC420 Controller
> 
> I used the power supply that came with the lights, eventually I may replace it with a different one, but it's running for now.
> 
> In my configuration, CH1 = White LED's & CH2 = Blue LED's
> 
> NOTE: Pin numbers in my schematic are arbitrary and only used to keep things straight. As far as I know these connectors don't have any pin numbering on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also designed & 3d printed a terminal cover and added 'strain relief' functionality using the zip ties.
> 
> TC420 LED Controller Terminal Cover



Great! This is exactly what an electronics moron like me was looking for! I will probably get a bigger power supply because I don't like the look of blue lunar lights and I have white lunar lights I've wanted to install for a while and would love to be able to dim them.

Tommy


----------



## jeffkrol

jmr9425 said:


> From my experience the TC420 is a 24H timer. You could setup a different program for the weekend, but you would have to change back and forth between programs manually. I believe the controller can store something like 50 programs that can be cycled through and activated from the device.


7 day timer.. Rough dim steps though..
believe it's like $50 or so.


----------



## ValiantBear

Hello all! Quick question on this thread: What do the PWM wires going to the light head do? I bought the WiFi Module from Fluval to determine what it is doing, with the hopes of replacing it with my Raspberry Pi. I measured the PWM outputs from the Fluval Module PWM pins and got a representative duty cycle but only a couple hundred mV. After reading this thread, the going consensus is that the MOSFETs on the board cycle ground side to pulse the LEDs, but if this is the case, why do the PWM wires need to go to the light head itself? Shouldnt all the PWM part be contained in the WiFi module if it was only cycling the MOSFETs on the board? I quoted the drawing below because this is what I envision in getting this to work, but I need to know if I need to step up my 3.3V PWM from my Pi to something the light head is expecting? Is the PWM device (Pi, Arduino, TC420, etc) sending its 10V PWM output to the light to cycle MOSFETs in it? Thanks for all the hard work you guys have put in to this, hopefully I can get this thing to work!




jeffkrol said:


> CONCEPT is easy.. Easier for the Profilux...
> 
> BEST to convert the 0-10V analog on the APEX to a PWM signal.
> Use that signal to cycle a high power MOSFET for the regulation of the constant voltage
> Profilux states PWM dimming is native so no need for conversion.
> 
> W/ the right design ANY type of positive PWM will do..
> Should be fairly simple for electronic geeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just substitute Aduino for any PWM source..
> 
> All above my paygrade..
> 
> There may even be "boxes" out there that will do this.. Not sure..
> Well looky here.. Seems it would do the trick for the Apex
> 
> https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Constant-voltage-0-10V-Dimmable-led_1320221805.html


----------



## jeffkrol

MOSFETS are in the wifi module.. 
There is a photo somewhere of the guts..

Basically a dual set..One inside the light head, one in the module..
T1-4 NPN power Mosfets


----------



## ValiantBear

I see those on my WiFi module, just not sure what they are doing for me seeing how the module is sending its PWM to the light via the red and black wires as well as to the gates of those MOSFETs... I am really trying to find out what signal I need to send to the red and black wires from the Pi. Also, what parameters does this signal have? IE, I will obviously need my own MOSFETs (may just harvest them from the module), but what do I connect the Source and Drain of the MOSFETs to and what do I need to give it for the gate signal? And if the module is sending a PWM signal to the light itself, do I need to send the output of my Pi to both my own MOSFETs and to the red and black wires to supply whatever MOSFETs are in the light?


----------



## jeffkrol

ValiantBear said:


> I see those on my WiFi module, just not sure what they are doing for me seeing how the module is sending its PWM to the light via the red and black wires as well as to the gates of those MOSFETs... I am really trying to find out what signal I need to send to the red and black wires from the Pi. Also, what parameters does this signal have? IE, I will obviously need my own MOSFETs (may just harvest them from the module), but what do I connect the Source and Drain of the MOSFETs to and what do I need to give it for the gate signal? And if the module is sending a PWM signal to the light itself, do I need to send the output of my Pi to both my own MOSFETs and to the red and black wires to supply whatever MOSFETs are in the light?



There is no "signal" to the light head. 
Just simple low side switching of the dc power supply..
Probe the 24V and "ground" point to determine polarity..
Probe the PWM wire and whichever comes out positive from the first.


At 50% dimm the meter should read like 12V if it average voltage.
You are making this a lot harder than it is..

It works like any MOSFET controlled line voltage switching


----------



## wallyhall

*I just wanted to say thank-you*

I just wanted to say thank-you guys.

Honestly - if you've got Paypal addresses - I'd love to send you some beer/cola money!

All of ya'lls instructions worked like a charm. I'm based in the UK - found all the parts on Ebay no problem. The connectors were the icing on the cake, it's like a drop-in replacement part.

I nearly ventured into the "Wifi enabled" TC421 - but (and now don't regret!) stuck with the TC420.

Can provide UK Ebay listings for anyone who wants them. All in cost me about £21 delivered (with spares).

Did half expect forum thread to end up like this: https://xkcd.com/979/

FYI I'm running Windows free at home, Linux and OSX only. I pulled up VirtualBox (free/opensource download) and an official MS development VM (https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/) - gives you 90 days of Windows for "development" purposes at no cost. 

Once the VM booted - downloaded the TC420 software (https://makemyled.com/downloads/) and enabled USB pass-through to access the box. Worked first time, like an absolute charm.

A little heat-shrink wrap tidied up the wiring (will post images later - if I remember).

Thanks again guys! Really made my evening. Do feel free to post a paypal.me URL for some thank-you donations!


----------



## fred73

Hi 

I have read all the post regarding the Fluval 2.0 but i Have the Bluetooth version 3.0 and is looking to control the pwm myself.

Has anyone been down that path 

Cheers


----------



## sammy1989

Hello sorry to comment on an old thread but it seems like you guys may have an answer after reading. I have a fluval 2.0n with the wifi controller, has anyone noticed that when the lights are in the programmable "red" mode at 100% both channels, switching to the "blue" manual full power mode with the touch button is brighter? Whats going on there? 

Any feedback would be much appreciated. 

Thanks


----------



## Azzaxx

sammy1989 said:


> Hello sorry to comment on an old thread but it seems like you guys may have an answer after reading. I have a fluval 2.0n with the wifi controller, has anyone noticed that when the lights are in the programmable "red" mode at 100% both channels, switching to the "blue" manual full power mode with the touch button is brighter? Whats going on there?
> 
> Any feedback would be much appreciated.
> 
> Thanks


I know this is a necro post, but I am having this exact issue. Blue mode is brighter, red is dimmer. 

But I noted another thing. I have the 59W model. Stock PSU pulling ~70W. My Mean well LRS75 is pulling 70 as well. 

When I hooked it up to my TC421 it's pulling 86-88W, which is insanely over the rated fixture wattage. I think I'm gonna ditch this whole idea and go back to stock, I'd rather not have to purchase a new light.


----------



## jeffkrol

Azzaxx said:


> I know this is a necro post, but I am having this exact issue. Blue mode is brighter, red is dimmer.
> 
> But I noted another thing. I have the 59W model. Stock PSU pulling ~70W. My Mean well LRS75 is pulling 70 as well.
> 
> When I hooked it up to my TC421 it's pulling 86-88W, which is insanely over the rated fixture wattage. I think I'm gonna ditch this whole idea and go back to stock, I'd rather not have to purchase a new light.



Are you feeding the TC-421 off the same circuit you are measuring?
It pulls "some" wattage though not sure how much atm. The wifi contributes some more than the plain tc-420


I assume the internal MOSFETS are "lossy" as well.
Can't say if 16-18W is "normal" TC losses though but it seems high.
Your lucky day sort of..just was playing w/ my *tc-420.
On idle it pulls about 1W* 0.1A at 9v


One thing though the TC can't add watts to the light , well not in the normal circuit AFAICT.


If yo have a VOM measure the current to the light head in series, voltage across the light. will get you the real power. 

Fluval, nicely, only includes the diode wattages (not even sure if they factor in resistor losses here) and not power supply wattages plus light head as you have seen. 



If your meanwell has a voltage adjustment you can always drop the voltage a bit.


----------



## Azzaxx

jeffkrol said:


> Are you feeding the TC-421 off the same circuit you are measuring?
> It pulls "some" wattage though not sure how much atm. The wifi contributes some more than the plain tc-420
> 
> 
> I assume the internal MOSFETS are "lossy" as well.
> Can't say if 16-18W is "normal" TC losses though but it seems high.
> Your lucky day sort of..just was playing w/ my *tc-420.
> On idle it pulls about 1W* 0.1A at 9v
> 
> 
> One thing though the TC can't add watts to the light , well not in the normal circuit AFAICT.
> 
> 
> If yo have a VOM measure the current to the light head in series, voltage across the light. will get you the real power.
> 
> Fluval, nicely, only includes the diode wattages (not even sure if they factor in resistor losses here) and not power supply wattages plus light head as you have seen.
> 
> 
> 
> If your meanwell has a voltage adjustment you can always drop the voltage a bit.


I've just matched the voltage of my meanwell to the fluval power supply.. But I'm at a loss, since the Meanwell+TC421 is still pulling about 15W more power, and the Fluval light is getting ~5c hotter than stock. (Brightness is the same?)

Somehow I'm getting less brightness and more power draw and heat on red mode(default off for stock PSU). Red mode on the Fluval is dimmer than Blue on the meanwell, and draws about 5W less from the wall, but still 10+W over stock.


Not sure what the TC421 is doing but it seems to be pumping more juice into the lights than just straight with the Meanwell power supply, causing hotter heatsinks.

Stock: 23.7V ~70w @48c
Mean Well: 23.7v ~75W 50c
Mean Well+ Tc421: 23.7v ~88W 55c

Also thank you for the response, it's always great to pick the brain of someone knowledgable like yourself. Cheers for the help


----------

