# co2 regulator recommendation for beginner



## PortalMasteryRy (Oct 16, 2012)

*edit*

Aquatek (on amazon.com) and Co2art both sell affordable single and dual stage regulators. 

I've owned the aquatek paintball regulator. While it did work, at one point the high pressure gauge got iffy and was pointing at way below the zero mark. It still worked though =) 

One thing I will say is that spending the extra money on a 2nd hand or used custom dual stage with a quality solenoid and needle valve will be better choice. 

I see it every time where people just get stuck in the "troubleshooting" mode because their regulator is giving them all kinds of issues. CO2 regulators is a piece of equipment that IMHO one should not skimp out if they can avoid it. It is just not worth the time and effort to be spending too much time worrying, tinkering and troubleshooting your regulator. We wanted planted tanks so we can grow plants not waste too much time being an equipment troubleshooter. Our focus should be growing plants and trimming weekly =).

CO2 is already a bitch and having a faulty regulator will increase your stress levels 100 fold. LOL

I've seen awesome deals here for dual stage regulators going for $250 range. You might want to try the ROAK section and do a WTB for a 2nd hand dual stage regulator. I don't know if you can get something below $200.


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## longgonz (Feb 13, 2016)

PortalMasteryRy said:


> Aquatek (on amazon.com) and Co2art both sell affordable single and dual stage regulators.
> 
> I've owned the aquatek paintball regulator. While it did work, at one point the high pressure gauge got iffy and was pointing at way below the zero mark. It still worked though =)
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice. That confirms what I was thinking- I just cant afford a dual-stage regulator right now. You mentioned Aquatek and co2art- if I get one of their single stage regulators, how can I prevent EOTD? Just by watching and getting the tank refilled before it gets too low?


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## desteoh (Aug 26, 2015)

i do have have 2 aquatek paintball regulator on my cube nano tank with 1 to 2 bps.... that last me for 4 to 5 month on a daily 6 hours run.....
im very happy with single stage regulators as i can see the plant are growing so healthy and green.....


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## MrFishTank5372 (Dec 18, 2015)

IMO Co2art sells some affortable 2 stage reg, better than aquatek.


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## harrynolan27 (Dec 31, 2015)

I just recently ordered a single stage kit from co2art, I've read good things about them and they are fairly affordable. This will be my first time with co2 also and from what I've read is if you keep an eye on your tank pressure you won't have to worry about EOTD.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Aquatek does not make a dual stage regulator, and there's a recent thread documenting really poor craftsmanship in the CO2Art dual stage regulators, coming from many users. For now, until people have chimed in about quality over the next few months, I strongly recommend avoiding CO2Art. For the record, the economy dual stage regulator that CO2Art sells is more of a stage-and-a-half regulator.

A paintball cylinder and something like an Aquatek Mini, the link you posted from F&S, or a CO2Art paintball regulator, are about the only way you'll come in at or under $150 total. Unfortunately, for that price, you're going to have to sacrifice quality. While it's theoretically possible to keep the total cost of a dual stage regulator, including cylinder, under $150 if you're very careful and know exactly what you need, and how to search for it, on Evilbay, the chance of that happening is very slim. Likely you'll find yourself in the $200-250 range, assuming that everything works as it's supposed to, and there aren't any unfortunate surprises.

Edit - here's the CO2Art thread:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...e-regulator-working-pressure-fluctuation.html


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

Buy a used industrial dual stage reg on evil bay for cheap and get a solenoid and needle valve. It's very easy to do, if that's the way you go.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

kevmo911 said:


> I strongly recommend avoiding CO2Art.http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...e-regulator-working-pressure-fluctuation.html


In all fairness and AFAICT.. it is just the "budget" 2 stage that is having problems..
Also when it was introduced no such problems were reported..
There is a lengthy pre-release of that new model thread here somewhere and the current issues were not seen.

BUT YMMV....
thread:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/2...o2art-2-stage-prototype-regulator-review.html


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## longgonz (Feb 13, 2016)

any of these regulators look good?

[link removed]


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

They all might work, but the Harris and the one with the blue handle both would work. They are single stage regulators. Price should be pretty low. Like $50 or even less.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

The brass ones are all Victor VTS-450's. They're dual stages and will work fine. Just know that they're surprisingly big. The gauges on them are, I believe, 2 1/2" diameter. If you're interested, check Evilbay for prices and then throw out a lowball and see what happens.

*edit* that first Harris might be a dual stage, too. Possibly it's a Matheson model 8. Might have a CGA320 nipple and nut already on it, but not sure. Same with the lone Victor-450 that has a few pics of it. But it's missing a gauge cover. The other 3 Victors, pictured a couple times together, will definitely need CGA320 nipples and nuts, and one of them is missing a gauge cover as well. Gauge covers are fairly cheap, but might as well avoid the cost if you can.


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## longgonz (Feb 13, 2016)

Awesome. So I would still also need a solenoid valve, manifold, needle valve, bubble counter, tubing, diffuser, and of course a tank. Am I missing anything?


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

longgonz said:


> Awesome. So I would still also need a solenoid valve, manifold, needle valve, bubble counter, tubing, diffuser, and of course a tank. Am I missing anything?


Yep.. but it is best to understand what one can buy new when it comes to regulators..

So as a baseline I like to post this one:
One would need to swap out the CGA (about $10) 
and add shipping .. but for $200 you got a new 2 stage regulator.. 
Rest of the parts are relatively cheap .

now the point is that used is used...may last forever, may last a week, may not even work or need some cheap parts (busted gauges as an example ar , on average $10 each).

https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1:UNDEF:AND:35-125-540

I have no doubt you can get a used working for less..Those that you posted from craigslist don't actually look the best..

New decent single stage regulators are about $50-$100..

eek #331781894568


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## Doogy262 (Aug 11, 2013)

Hello Long...,where are you in Michigan?Here is an idea for a good starter regulator that the purists will rag on but i have two running for over two years with the only complaint being a cheap needle valve that takes some tweaking.Only other thing you need is the tank for about 50.00-60.00 dollars.
Amazon.com: Milwaukee Instruments MA957 Dual-Valve CO2 Adjustable Flow Pressure Regulator, Dual Reading psi and kg/cm: Industrial & Scientific
Also EOTD is a term used to get you to buy better regulators which is not a bad thing if you can afford it but until me or one of the many friends and their friends have it happen I believe it is a myth..


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Doogy262 said:


> Amazon.com: Milwaukee Instruments MA957 Dual-Valve CO2 Adjustable Flow Pressure Regulator, Dual Reading psi and kg/cm: Industrial & Scientific
> Also EOTD is a term used to get you to buy better regulators which is not a bad thing if you can afford it but until me or one of the many friends and their friends have it happen I believe it is a myth..


This is the same Milwaukee the link goes to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M08hPs-J3SM

I can't say whether this is standard, but I'd guess it's pretty close. It's about a 14 psi increase in working pressure as the cylinder drops in pressure from 800 to 0.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

Doogy262 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-Ins...18621&sr=8-1&keywords=co2+regulator+milwaukee
> Also EOTD is a term used to get you to buy better regulators which is not a bad thing if you can afford it but until me or one of the many friends and their friends have it happen I believe it is a myth..


no, no myth.. just an engineering fact.. 


> Single-stage and two-stage gas regulators have different droop characteristics and respond differently to changing supply pressure. The single-stage regulator shows little droop with varying flow rates, but a relatively large supply pressure effect. Conversely, the two-stage regulator shows a steeper slope in droop but only small supply pressure effects. On the other hand, if gas is being used for a short duration instrument calibration, a single-stage gas regulator with a wide accuracy envelope (supply pressure effect) but a comparatively flat droop should be chosen


http://rmehs.fullerton.edu/_documents/policiesandguidelines/how to select a gas regulator.pdf

It's severity and how often it occurs is questionable..but not the fact that 2 stage will "insure" it is the lowest possible times.. 










Fact you can take a chance on a used 2 stage for the same price as a new 1 stage regulator shift the equation a bit..at least for many..


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## longgonz (Feb 13, 2016)

Doogy262 said:


> Hello Long...,where are you in Michigan?Here is an idea for a good starter regulator that the purists will rag on but i have two running for over two years with the only complaint being a cheap needle valve that takes some tweaking.Only other thing you need is the tank for about 50.00-60.00 dollars.
> Amazon.com: Milwaukee Instruments MA957 Dual-Valve CO2 Adjustable Flow Pressure Regulator, Dual Reading psi and kg/cm: Industrial & Scientific
> Also EOTD is a term used to get you to buy better regulators which is not a bad thing if you can afford it but until me or one of the many friends and their friends have it happen I believe it is a myth..


I'm in SE Mich. Its comforting to hear that you have had success with this regulator, but then I'm scared off again by some of those reviews. Would it be possible to swap out the cheap needle valve? Or would that be really expensive?


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## Doogy262 (Aug 11, 2013)

kevmo911 said:


> This is the same Milwaukee the link goes to:


Hi Kev,won't argue that it is possible but that took place over a course of days not minutes as described in the comments.There are over a hundred videos about the milwaukee and only this one describes this happening also that is either a different regulator or has been changed because the right side dial is different,again this is not to start an argument because I don't have the experience for that.My only real point is that when you have someone who{like me} states that they are on a budget and can only afford so much the replies are to get a build your own or coart dual stage for twice what they can afford.What is wrong with a single stage to start so they can find out if it will work and to educate themselves about co2 than when they can to upgrade.Would you say that EOTD happens but is very rare and something that a person who pays attention to what is going on with there system can avoid or at least stop.I find it funny that while we are discussing this my 10 lb. tank is nearly empty and now you have me checking it every 10 minutes.So again not arguing I have received tons of info from your replies and appreciate what you do here.


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## longgonz (Feb 13, 2016)

Ok, I'm losing my marbles over here. I'll be honest, I'm getting very tempted to buy a cheap POS pre-built, just for the sake of having everything I need, and knowing it was put together correctly. And of course because I can AFFORD one. 
But I know I will regret it. So then that leads me to want to get a nice used regulator, and go buy a solenoid, needle valve, whatever fittings are missing, bubble counter, diffuser, tubing, blah blah blah. 
My issue with that is not knowing what regulator will work and what wont- what kind of needle valve do I need, what the hell is "working pressure" and how should that affect my decision, and what kind of solenoid I need. I googled "cool touch solenoid" just to try to get some prices and none of the search results looked anything like what's on the pre-builts. I'm trying to add everything up and its looking like, to build my own with new or even used parts is going above my price range. This would be so damn easy if I was rich.


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## jeffkrol (Jun 5, 2013)

CO2 Regulator Parts | CO2 For Planted Tanks And Home Brewing. CO2 Regulator Solenoid
One stop shopping for a few parts. Sent you the tank link..

would be fairly hard to build for under $200 (everything BUT the atomizer..) unless you get lucky. It CAN be done, just takes patience and time


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## liquid_krystale (Feb 6, 2012)

Longgonz, I totally feel you. In a similar situation and slowly doing my research. I'm hoping to get a quality build done for under $150.


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## longgonz (Feb 13, 2016)

liquid_krystale said:


> Longgonz, I totally feel you. In a similar situation and slowly doing my research. I'm hoping to get a quality build done for under $150.


Best of luck to you! I'm starting to think plastic plants might not be so bad... >


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## liquid_krystale (Feb 6, 2012)

Lol. It's actually do-able with some patience and a bit of elbow grease!

Scored a used stainless steel dual stage smith regulator for $31 (!). Clippard solenoid + manifold should run you $40 or so, and a quality used needle valve be had for a reasonable price if you look hard on fleabay.


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## liquid_krystale (Feb 6, 2012)

Apologies for hijacking the thread, but does anyone know whether the VCR fittings on the Swagelok 4BMG needle valves are easy to work with in the context of our type of co2 setup?

What type of adapters would we need?


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## onlycrimson (Sep 7, 2010)

I don't know for sure, but I've seen other threads where they said the vcr adapters are expensive and harder to find. But if you're willing to go through the trouble it would work.


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## ibebian (Jan 11, 2016)

longgonz said:


> Best of luck to you! I'm starting to think plastic plants might not be so bad... >


To play devil's advocate, why not just go the low tech route? It sounds like you want nice plants but with little maintenance, so why not avoid the additional complexity altogether!

CO2 goes beyond just the hardware component to requiring light on the higher end, which means now you'll have to dose more nutrients so the plants don't starve (and even then assuming they are plants of the high light variety).


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

Doogy262 said:


> Hi Kev,won't argue that it is possible but that took place over a course of days not minutes as described in the comments.There are over a hundred videos about the milwaukee and only this one describes this happening also that is either a different regulator or has been changed because the right side dial is different,again this is not to start an argument because I don't have the experience for that.My only real point is that when you have someone who{like me} states that they are on a budget and can only afford so much the replies are to get a build your own or coart dual stage for twice what they can afford.What is wrong with a single stage to start so they can find out if it will work and to educate themselves about co2 than when they can to upgrade.Would you say that EOTD happens but is very rare and something that a person who pays attention to what is going on with there system can avoid or at least stop.I find it funny that while we are discussing this my 10 lb. tank is nearly empty and now you have me checking it every 10 minutes.So again not arguing I have received tons of info from your replies and appreciate what you do here.


Yes, I agree that the video shows a huge CO2 loss in seconds, while the actual process would usually take days or even weeks. The reason people don't notice is because most people don't run the CO2 high enough for the increased flow to kill their fish. And, because it takes so long, if you pay attention, you can definitely keep it in check by tweaking the needle valve.

I also agree that a prebuilt rig isn't a bad way to start. And I suggested possibilities to the OP that would meet her budget, while pointing out the quality issue. The only point I wanted to make is that an increased CO2 flow *does* happen with the cheap prebuilt rigs. Actually, it happens with all regulators, but it's just worse with the cheapo rigs. "EOTD" is the end result of the increased working pressure, rather than the simple rise that is always present (even when it's too small to notice). Between not having a noticeable increase, not having a significant increase do any damage, replacing cylinders before they're completely tapped, and compensating for increases, yes, I'd say that not keeping EOTD at bay is a fairly rare thing.


longgonz said:


> Ok, I'm losing my marbles over here. I'll be honest, I'm getting very tempted to buy a cheap POS pre-built, just for the sake of having everything I need, and knowing it was put together correctly. And of course because I can AFFORD one.
> But I know I will regret it. So then that leads me to want to get a nice used regulator, and go buy a solenoid, needle valve, whatever fittings are missing, bubble counter, diffuser, tubing, blah blah blah.
> My issue with that is not knowing what regulator will work and what wont- what kind of needle valve do I need, what the hell is "working pressure" and how should that affect my decision, and what kind of solenoid I need. I googled "cool touch solenoid" just to try to get some prices and none of the search results looked anything like what's on the pre-builts. I'm trying to add everything up and its looking like, to build my own with new or even used parts is going above my price range. This would be so damn easy if I was rich.


There are a lot of things to learn, and I can understand how confusing it can be. Have you read the stickies at the top of the Equipment forum? Here's a list of them, and a bunch of others, that I put together a while back:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...plete-compendium-pressurized-co2-threads.html



liquid_krystale said:


> Apologies for hijacking the thread, but does anyone know whether the VCR fittings on the Swagelok 4BMG needle valves are easy to work with in the context of our type of co2 setup?
> 
> What type of adapters would we need?


VCR adapters are pretty expensive. For a BMG series like that one, which aren't terribly good in the first place, I'd pass.


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## longgonz (Feb 13, 2016)

ibebian said:


> To play devil's advocate, why not just go the low tech route? It sounds like you want nice plants but with little maintenance, so why not avoid the additional complexity altogether!
> 
> CO2 goes beyond just the hardware component to requiring light on the higher end, which means now you'll have to dose more nutrients so the plants don't starve (and even then assuming they are plants of the high light variety).


A couple of reasons: I've been doing low-tech for a while now, and I'm ready for something more. I'm bored lol. I want to grow a dense carpeting plant, for one, and I know there really aren't any good ones for low light/ no co2.
Also, I just got a new light, one that can be adjusted to high output and I'd really like to use it at it's med-high level. 
Lastly, I'm really banking on a co2 system to clear up my algae. (It's not a lot of algae) 

Bump:


kevmo911 said:


> There are a lot of things to learn, and I can understand how confusing it can be. Have you read the stickies at the top of the Equipment forum? Here's a list of them, and a bunch of others, that I put together a while back:
> http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...plete-compendium-pressurized-co2-threads.html


Thank you kevmo911, I will read those stickies right away.


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## ibebian (Jan 11, 2016)

longgonz said:


> A couple of reasons: I've been doing low-tech for a while now, and I'm ready for something more. I'm bored lol. I want to grow a dense carpeting plant, for one, and I know there really aren't any good ones for low light/ no co2.
> Also, I just got a new light, one that can be adjusted to high output and I'd really like to use it at it's med-high level.
> Lastly, I'm really banking on a co2 system to clear up my algae. (It's not a lot of algae)


That's fair, I know my CO2 phase is in my future for sure!

I'd like to try a carpet as well, I'm thinking Staurogyne Repens since that apparently is lower light with pretty star shaped leaf configurations. You could try dosing Excel to combat the algae (depending on what kind). Lots of people here seem to have had success spot-dosing with a turkey baster/glass dropper right onto stuff like BBA.


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## liquid_krystale (Feb 6, 2012)

kevmo911 said:


> VCR adapters are pretty expensive. For a BMG series like that one, which aren't terribly good in the first place, I'd pass.


Thanks kevmo911. Sounds like you're the resident pressurized CO2 guru!

As per your advice I'll pass on the Swagelok 4BMG then. I read on Reefcentral that the Parker 4Z(A)-NML-V-SS-K metering valve is medium flow and thus ok to use? I'm having a hard time finding a good needle valve that is less than $50 cdn. Is it even possible?! I may have to go with an SMC AS2000 to keep it under budget.


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## charlie 1 (Oct 22, 2006)

You can get a new 2 stage for around 150.00
Used with DOA warranty for around 50.00


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## slythy (Sep 1, 2015)

i picked up my airgas dual stage Y12-215D new for 55 shipped on ebay, i then built a all nickel plated post reg kit at diyco2regulator.com for like 120, i think the brass is 90. Be patient, you can find deals. you dont need dual stage its just a safety precaution i guess.


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## kevmo911 (Sep 24, 2010)

liquid_krystale said:


> Thanks kevmo911. Sounds like you're the resident pressurized CO2 guru!
> 
> As per your advice I'll pass on the Swagelok 4BMG then. I read on Reefcentral that the Parker 4Z(A)-NML-V-SS-K metering valve is medium flow and thus ok to use? I'm having a hard time finding a good needle valve that is less than $50 cdn. Is it even possible?! I may have to go with an SMC AS2000 to keep it under budget.


I've tested a bunch of valves, but unfortunately the NS/L/M valves are not among them. But from what I've read, I'd guess that the NM is a decent valve and will work fine. NS would be better (and probably comparable to a Swagelok S series) and NL wouldn't be useable (like a Swagelok L). F/M NPT ports are easiest (and cheapest) to work with, while compression tubes are more fragile and expensive, and VCR connections I would bother with only if I found an incredible valve at a super-low price.

If decent precision at a decent price is the goal, I'd probably go with a Fabco-Air NV-55-18 (under $50 shipped).

Bettatail has a Metering Valve thread from a few years back that is a decent guide. However, Cv and orifice size are factors, but not the definitive characteristics, of what makes a valve good or bad, or even useful. In fact, I'd argue that handle diameter counts for as much, or more, than anything else. Anyway:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...ves-selection-our-co2-pressurized-system.html


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