# Lighting question for Low tech 10 gallon



## Toney (Oct 29, 2016)

I think cfl's are better


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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

Why would you say that exactly?


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## Toney (Oct 29, 2016)

I tried two of the 5w screw in leds, I didn't think they were enough.

I've got 13w cfl's, but they started a bad brown algae blume I'm just getting over.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

BrandonCosme said:


> Will a single 3 watt 5000k daylight LED bulb (25 watt incandescent equivalent) be suitable enough to grow the basic low tech plants like swords, anubias, dwarf sag and jungle val? Would I need to buy another of the same bulb so that I have two 3 watt LED bulbs?
> 
> This is the bulb - (Meridian 25W Equivalent Daylight (5000K) A15 Non-Dimmable LED Replacement Light Bulb-13182 - The Home Depot)


I'm running a pair of 10 watt LED A19 TCP bulbs in shop reflectors over a 20 H tank. It's been doing pretty good but the light levels are intense enough to need some CO2 injection. I'm also limiting the lamp's on times to about 7 hours. I would think those 3 watt bulbs would be fine, if this is a low-light, low-tech plant tank. Are you going to use a clamp on reflector or the old tank's lamp hood?


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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

Bump:


GrampsGrunge said:


> I'm running a pair of 10 watt LED A19 TCP bulbs in shop reflectors over a 20 H tank. It's been doing pretty good but the light levels are intense enough to need some CO2 injection. I'm also limiting the lamp's on times to about 7 hours. I would think those 3 watt bulbs would be fine, if this is a low-light, low-tech plant tank. Are you going to use a clamp on reflector or the old tank's lamp hood?


It's neither actually. It's a desk lamp. This one Hampton Bay 22 in. Black Architect Desk Lamp-LAMP1EQBKR - The Home Depot

I have a clamp on work light but don't really like the look of it. I will use it though if I need to. I just plan on running low tech plants but I want it to be lush for the most part. I can add another of the same bulb on another desk lamp or a clamp reflector if need be. Just worried that I don't have enough lights right now.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

Well not sure about the light spread, some desk-light reflectors are given a white surface that disperses the light a good deal. Which would be good as some of the mirrored, reflectored shoplight domes would make the light more of a spotlight.

Lamp esthetics aside, you want your light to be spread somewhat evenly around the tank. You could also just buy another, stronger lumen output LED bulb.

I'm really surprised at how cheap these have become lately. Our local BiMart has 40 watt equivalent 5000K daylight A15's now for $1.99.


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

I have a quad t5 strip over my ten gallon and only use one bulb. 4 bulbs will last you a long time.


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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

Krispyplants said:


> I have a quad t5 strip over my ten gallon and only use one bulb. 4 bulbs will last you a long time.


These household LED's have a working life of over 25,000~33,000 hours. What's the working life on a T5 bulb and replacement cost of said T 5 bulb, and the price of the fixture altogether?

The OP has already got the desk-lamp. You want that they spend more money?


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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

GrampsGrunge said:


> Well not sure about the light spread, some desk-light reflectors are given a white surface that disperses the light a good deal. Which would be good as some of the mirrored, reflectored shoplight domes would make the light more of a spotlight.
> 
> Lamp esthetics aside, you want your light to be spread somewhat evenly around the tank. You could also just buy another, stronger lumen output LED bulb.
> 
> I'm really surprised at how cheap these have become lately. Our local BiMart has 40 watt equivalent 5000K daylight A15's now for $1.99.


You're correct, the inner dome of the lamp is white which I didn't know would work lol. Also, I could do that. I already have a spare work clamp light and another desk lamp which I could house another bulb. I was just worried initially that I would have too much light thus causing algae (I don't plan on using a CO2 system as a beginner) and now I'm worried that I won't have enough light to grow the lush Jungle val forest or a foreground dwarf sag. I was following guides about WPG and how since I have a 10 gallon standard tank, I would need to have 2.5 wpg MAX. Since I bought a 25w incandescent equivalent, I always thought I had more than enough light lol.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

That light isn't going to grow really anything. You can't go by what the equivalent is. You would probably need triple that to grow most low-light plants in a 10G.


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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> That light isn't going to grow really anything. You can't go by what the equivalent is. You would probably need triple that to grow most low-light plants in a 10G.


What should I go by then? How much watts (LED) would I need to be able to grow most low tech plants?


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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

GrampsGrunge said:


> These household LED's have a working life of over 25,000~33,000 hours. What's the working life on a T5 bulb and replacement cost of said T 5 bulb, and the price of the fixture altogether?
> 
> The OP has already got the desk-lamp. You want that they spend more money?


Just giving a good classic option here. Money is never an issue with people if you really want stuff done. If money is the issue, expect lower quality. I believe the whole strip was $60 shipped estimated. One bulb is said to last you around 1 year with full intensity. Some lose intensity faster and some last longer. Mines been up 1 1/2 years and I'm still using the same bulb. Everything is still growing so no need to switch to another bulb. Op can do what he wants but I was just telling what I rock. There's no need to be hostile here.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

Generally speaking I think you need around 800 lumens or so that bulb has 225. You can also get a cfl bulb. Usually the 13-18 watt ones are sold as equivalent to 60 watt or 75 watt. Other things comes into play but that's the gist of it.


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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> Generally speaking I think you need around 800 lumens or so that bulb has 225. You can also get a cfl bulb. Usually the 13-18 watt ones are sold as equivalent to 60 watt or 75 watt. Other things comes into play but that's the gist of it.


Is there a benefit for having a CFL over an LED? Always thought LED's were better.


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## Redneck tenner (Aug 21, 2016)

You mentioned looks. Why not just get an led then? Stingray or beamswork?

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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

******* tenner said:


> You mentioned looks. Why not just get an led then? Stingray or beamswork?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


I agree with the stingray


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## Redneck tenner (Aug 21, 2016)

Im happy with my stingray. I almost got a stronger light and honestly now glad I didn't. Its enough for my needs. 

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## GrampsGrunge (Jun 18, 2012)

Krispyplants said:


> Just giving a good classic option here. Money is never an issue with people if you really want stuff done. If money is the issue, expect lower quality. I believe the whole strip was $60 shipped estimated. One bulb is said to last you around 1 year with full intensity. Some lose intensity faster and some last longer. Mines been up 1 1/2 years and I'm still using the same bulb. Everything is still growing so no need to switch to another bulb. Op can do what he wants but I was just telling what I rock. There's no need to be hostile here.


I don't recall being hostile. :| I do have a bit of an issue with folks recommending something expensive when the OP has a fixture that already works. From my own experience, and my tank that has been set up now for over 7 months...










A19 LED bulbs in clamp-on reflectors work quite well. With two 8.5 watt, 60 watt equivalents in reflectors that are actually a bit too strong even with DIY CO2. With the much less required PAR of a less deep, 10 gallon tank, a 3 watt LED in a reflector with low-light plants would be a good starting point, going to a stronger bulb like a 6 watt, 40 watt incandescent equivalent, if needed for better plant growth, is a easier option than an entire new light system. CFL would also be an option, but at least in my area the stores are not selling screw-in CFL's much any more. It's a 10 gallon tank, from my perspective of recommendation to a starter tank owner.


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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

GrampsGrunge said:


> I don't recall being hostile. :| I do have a bit of an issue with folks recommending something expensive when the OP has a fixture that already works. From my own experience, and my tank that has been set up now for over 7 months...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow you're tank is really beautiful. Just an update, I was worried and bought a 8w LED (60 watt equivalent) bulb today. I'm planning on putting my previous 3 watt (25 watt equivalent bulb) in a clamp on reflector on the opposite side of the tank. My new bulb is also 800 lumens as suggested by another reply to my thread.


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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

GrampsGrunge said:


> With the much less required PAR of a less deep, 10 gallon tank, a 3 watt LED in a reflector with low-light plants would be a good starting point..


 A 3 watt LED with 225 Lumens on a 10G is not a "starting point" it's a non-starter.


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## Redneck tenner (Aug 21, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> A 3 watt LED with 225 Lumens on a 10G is not a "starting point" it's a non-starter.


I agree wont work. 

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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> A 3 watt LED with 225 Lumens on a 10G is not a "starting point" it's a non-starter.


How about a 3 watt LED with 225 Lumens accompanied by a 8 watt (60 watt incandescent equivalent) LED with 800 Lumens?


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## Redneck tenner (Aug 21, 2016)

Im not sure. It be easier for you to post the particular light as odds are someone may have it or have used it. 

What exactly are you trying to accomplish ? Cost? 

Getting low light in a ten pretty easy. Getting med and high pretty easy. Tank only 12 high. Add in two or three inches of substrate and your pretty close to substrate. 

Im probably 35-40 par at bottom and grow plants fine. And at top get red in rotala. 

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## Krispyplants (Apr 15, 2014)

GrampsGrunge said:


> I don't recall being hostile. :| I do have a bit of an issue with folks recommending something expensive when the OP has a fixture that already works.


I never told anyone to buy anything nor was I giving any recommendations. "I WAS JUST STATING" what I use. Matter of fact, it beats a 3 watt led in a clamp on housing. Lol $60 is not an expensive buy at all for a complete light strip and is moderate level for a light strip specifically made for planted tanks. There's many more options with $60 that can give 12 inches low all the way to extremely high light. Especially for a 20" length tank.


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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

******* tenner said:


> Im not sure. It be easier for you to post the particular light as odds are someone may have it or have used it.
> 
> What exactly are you trying to accomplish ? Cost?
> 
> ...


I'm going to be using around 1.5 inches of Flourite. I'm planning to attach the 3 watt bulb on a clamp on reflector to add even more light. I really hope a 8 watt LED and 3 watt LED is enough to grow most low tech plants successfully. 

This is the new bulb I bought to go into the desk lamp - (Philips 60W Equivalent Daylight A19 LED Light Bulb-455955 - The Home Depot)


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## Redneck tenner (Aug 21, 2016)

Should be fine 

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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

******* tenner said:


> Should be fine
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


If I need more in order to make all the low tech plants thrive, I can buy a different bulb to replace the 3w LED. I was thinking of replacing it with a 12 watt LED bulb at 1000+ Lumens so that I'll have a 20 watts of LED on the tank. Hopefully that should be able to grow all the low tech plants with ease.


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## Redneck tenner (Aug 21, 2016)

BrandonCosme said:


> If I need more in order to make all the low tech plants thrive, I can buy a different bulb to replace the 3w LED. I was thinking of replacing it with a 12 watt LED bulb at 1000+ Lumens so that I'll have a 20 watts of LED on the tank. Hopefully that should be able to grow all the low tech plants with ease.


I would thing your going to be good 

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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

******* tenner said:


> I would thing your going to be good
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


So should I hold off on buying the 12 watt LED?


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## Redneck tenner (Aug 21, 2016)

I think 12wt probably put you at high end of low light 

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## houseofcards (Mar 21, 2009)

No one can dial you in perfectly. They can only give you a working range that should provide what you need. The rest is the plants, your husbandry skills/habits, co2, lighting adjustments, stocking levels, the list goes on and on whether things will go well. You just have to start doing it and make adjustments.


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## Redneck tenner (Aug 21, 2016)

houseofcards said:


> No one can dial you in perfectly. They can only give you a working range that should provide what you need. The rest is the plants, your husbandry skills/habits, co2, lighting adjustments, stocking levels, the list goes on and on whether things will go well. You just have to start doing it and make adjustments.


Better said 

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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

I have never measured the light from a LED screw-in bulb, nor have I seen any data from others who have done so. Without that data I'm not sure how we can say whether that is enough light for anything. For sure you would need two of them, one on each half of the tank, but it still might be too little light. I doubt that it would be too much.

You could guess based on lumens, but that tells you very little about how much of that light can make it to the substrate level in the tank. You would need to know a lot more about the reflector, and what distance it would be from the substrate. This is a case where someone would need to use a PAR or lux meter to measure the light from the bulb using the reflector that you intend to use.


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## nikohak (Oct 21, 2016)

I'm in a somewhat similar situation, that due to the reflectors and what not, I am having a hard time guestimating my actual light intensity. The good thing is that I have plenty of it and I just need to adjust it down. 

If one does not have an access to any PAR meters and don't know the amount the light setup produces, is there any magic methods of determing a roughly correct amount? For example if I know my light spectrum is good, could I estimate something if I measure the exposure values from tank bottom using a dslr or photography intervalometer, mobile app etc? I am aiming for higher end of a low tech setup.


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## redchigh (Apr 10, 2010)

I wouldn't use watts at all. For most of my light, assuming 6500k bulbs, I go with lumens.

Over a 10g, I'd go with 18-23 watts of CFL. If you want that in led, go with a 50-80 watt equivilent, in as close to 6500k as possible (usually 'cool white')

My tanks were always medium high light and low tech.
You won't be very successful in this hobby if you constantly try to save a few dollars at every turn.
If you want cheap setup and power usage, put the tank in a window.
If you want a cheap setup with a reasonable power bill (like 12¢ a month) use CFLs- buy a 18-23 watt daylight cfl. 

They're 6-9 dollars, and last about two years before their output starts to droop. They can be used longer though.

I've never used screw in LEDs. If you want to try, like i said, 50-80, even 90 watt equivilent. It might be cheaper. Or it might be an expensive experiment if it doesn't work, yanno?


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## Kampo (Nov 3, 2015)

here is what i'm doing in my fish room and smaller display tanks.

I take a 9watt LED bulD (60 watt equivalent) in my area 4-6 bucks for a 4 pack of daylight bulbs) and pry the diffuser globe off. these have about 800ish lumens, equivalent to a 13watt ccfl. the bonus though is instead of having to deal with restrike and getting a good reflector, all the light is focused down! so my untested opinion is its about on the level with a 18watt ccfl in a 8.5 inch reflector, and just a bit dimmer than a 23watt. they make bright LED bulbs if you need a bit brighter, i've done it with 14watt (100watt equivalent) ones as well but they run about 5-6 bucks a bulb. 

as far as fixtures in my fish room they are in 8.5 inch shop light reflectors hung as pendants, mainly because its the cheapest pendant setup I could get without wiring a bunch, plus they act as a light shield so I don't see the light spill and all the light goes to the tank. on my display tanks I use Walmart Clip Lamps. 1 over a 10 2 over a 20H on the tanks I use them on.

attaching a few pics to show what I mean, the tank pics were when I still had CCFLs in them, but they are both swaped with the 9watt LED bulb now.


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## BrandonCosme (Nov 24, 2016)

redchigh said:


> I wouldn't use watts at all. For most of my light, assuming 6500k bulbs, I go with lumens.
> 
> Over a 10g, I'd go with 18-23 watts of CFL. If you want that in led, go with a 50-80 watt equivilent, in as close to 6500k as possible (usually 'cool white')
> 
> ...


Just an update, I've been thinking about buying a 12-13 watt LED bulb 5000k (100 watt equivalent) to accompany my 8 watt bulb. However, instead of a desk lamp, this bulb is going to be housed in a Fluker's dimmable clamp lamp and a Zoo med adjustable lamp stand (I already owned these from my Panther Chameleon setup years back). I figured I'd just buy a really powerful light so I wouldn't have to buy anymore. If it's too bright or not enough chlorophyll is beign produced, I can always dim the light bulb or raise the lamp. 

This is the lamp stand - (https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Reptile-Lamp-Stand/dp/B000255OUO)
This is the lamp - (https://www.amazon.com/Flukers-Repta-Clamp-8-5-Inch-Ceramic-Dimmable/dp/B003H200QC)
This is the light bulb - (https://www.amazon.com/Philips-455717-Equivalent-Daylight-4-Pack/dp/B00YEMKJE2)


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## aquaBender (Aug 18, 2016)

I have a couple 10 gallon Walstad tanks, one has a strip of 9 watt 7500k LED strip and the other has two 13 watt 6500k CFL's. The CFL tank gets much better growth but the LED does well enough.


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