# My situation...(now solved)



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

How much total wattage I will need?

You should aim for 40-60 Watts, depending on the plants that you want to grow, the quality of the reflectors, and the maintenance time and money that you are willing to put into this.

How many tubes and their wattage?

Even lighting is good, so depending on the type of bulbs you might want at least two.

What Kelvin is and means to plants? 

Kelvin is the overall color temperature of the light. High = bluish, low = reddish. Doesn't mean anything to plants, however bulbs with a low K of 2700 - 4100 K usually promote algae growth, and give a yellowish tint to the tank.

What's appropiate for me?

Between 5000 and 10000 depending on personal preferences... although there are also plant growth bulbs with 18000K available, so this is difficult to answer...


What the whole rage about GE 9352K bulbs?

More than Kelvin, the color spectrum of the bulb is important. Plants use more of the blue and red part of the spectrum (think rainbow), while most common bulbs are heavy in the yellow/green area, where the human eye is more sensitive. The 9325K bulb has a spectral distribution which promotes plant growth, but keep in mind that the light level (watt/lumen) is more important than the exact color spectrum.

Anything else I need to know?

Yes, there is a lot, and you can get a jumpstart by reading over one of the good plant-dedicated websites like Chucks pages or the Sceptical Aquarist. Once you have done that you can get into modifying hoods or buying new lights.

Will I have to modify my hood? Or buy a new one? (I'm sure I will need more than one tube).

See above... read a lot and you will get a good idea...

Plus, I don't really appreciate the "bleached out" appearance of some bright white lights make on plants. Are there lights that don't do this?

If you are referring to the blown out highlights in many images of planted tanks? Don't worry, this is just due to the limited contrast that film/CCD's can handle, in reality you will not notice...


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

Well without knowing what plants you are planning on and taking your word that you are going to have bright light plants I would say you need in the range a 3-4 watts per gallon. That means 60-80 watts. Now the question is how are you going to do it? Well normally I would send one to www.ahsupply.com and you could get a 55 watt kit. That and your current strip would get you where you want to be. But I don't know if you have a canopy or not.

The other method would be to see if you want to try and tackle the ODNO method (see the sticky post at the top of this forum). But again you would need a canopy. If you went with 2x OD you would need 2-3 bulbs.

If not that then you could try and pick up a PC fixture from EBay. 

As far as kelvin you would want bulbs in the 5000k to 10000k range. The GE bulb is the best plant bulb I have ever used. You can get it in a 55 watt PC (think AH Supply kit here) or in standard NO tubes.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

To anwer your question Rex, I do have a black plastic conopy where the light strip is made to fit securely. The ballast is only up to 22W. So what are you suggesting I do?

What are PC bulbs? NO bulbs?
ODNO? (I didn't find the sticky about ODNO)

It seems that I missed an important topic of lumens/watt and color spectrum. I thought kelvin was color spectrum, right or wrong? The GE bulbs seem quite pricy, I'm just entering this hobby so would rather go for other good bulbs for less until I really get into it, any examples?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

That article has been moved to the FAQ section here. You are going to have to replace the ballast or add another one. PC bulbs are Power Compact fluorescent bulbs, NO are Normal Output fluorescent bulbs like you have now, ODNO is Over Driven Normal Output fluorescent bulbs. 

The GE bulbs might cost a bit more but are well worth the money. I have never priced them in NO tubes only in 55 watt PC and they were just a few dollars more when we did the group buy here.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Rolo737 said:


> I thought kelvin was color spectrum, right of wrong?


Wrong. There is no measurement for spectral distribution of colors, it can only be displayed in a curve. You won't even find a Kelvin number on some plant growth bulbs, which emit a pinkish light (lot's of red and blue, less yellow/green). Another example is the famous 9325K bulb, which according to the Kelvin rating would look bluish white, but instead shows some pink hues.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

My Hagen aqua-glo tube is rated as 18000K.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

I plan on doing the 55W PC kit from AHSupply for my 20 gallon(24X12X16), but I'm having second guesses. I'm concerned if it will be to much light. 

-First its a PC and I read in this forum that a 55W PC will put out more light than 3x20W normal tubes. Just getting at the point that PC is more.
-I also read here that the watt/gallon rule only applies to 30-90 gallon tanks, so my 20 gallon sould require less light. :!: I guess I was wrong about this, thanks to Wasspest for correcting, a 20 gallon should require MORE. :!: 
-Anyway, if I use the watts/gallon rule, I'm getting about 3 (but this is probably more because it is PC)
-Also, on the AHsupply they say the light out put is greatly increased because the of the high quality reflectors, increasing it by about 167%. (So this too will greatly increase brightness on top of 3W/gallon).
-Lastly, on the website www.aquahobby.com, the author recommends 1watt/2liter, where 20 gallons = 78 liters, that means about 39 watts for my tank. The author seems to know what he's doing; his tanks are stunning and full of growth.

So, I'm not sure about the proper wattage and lighting to use for my tank since its only 20 gallons, because I hear that PC bulbs are actually brighter than what their wattage suggests, becuase the AHsupply reflectors are of high quality, and the recommendation of 39 watts total from a well-experienced aquarist. Plus I also plan on doing a ten gallon and hear especially that the watts/gallon rule doesn't apply.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

One more question, will I need a fan for a 55W PC if I go with it?


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## NFish (Nov 5, 2002)

If you are doing high light plants, are injecting CO2, and are using fertilizers, than you can do the 55 watt. If not, then you may want to go with something else. Atleast you are getting good information, my 1st planted tank I got advice for more than 55 watts on a 20 gallon (the advice was not from here), so I ended up with 110 watt of light on a 20 gallon tank. Needless to say it didn't end up the best. But better than you may think (still not good though).


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

_I plan on doing the 55W PC kit from AHSupply for my 20 gallon(24X12X16), but I'm having second guesses. I'm concerned if it will be to much light._

If you go that route you will need a reliable source of CO2, and a regular schedule of fertilizer dosing. If that is the case, plants will grow like crazy. If not, algae will. 

_-First its a PC and I read in this forum that a 55W PC will put out more light than 3x20W normal tubes. Just getting at the point that PC is more._

That is not true, it just seems that way, because PC lights are very compact. Normal tubes are actually more efficient, which you notice when touching them. Less heat is generated. However, most PC lights come with excellent reflectors, which direct more light into the tank, while with 3 normal tubes without or with inferior reflectors you only get a fraction of the light into the tank. If the same percentage of light goes into the tank, you will get slightly more light from 3 20W tubes than from a 55W PC.

_-I also read here that the watt/gallon rule only applies to 30-90 gallon tanks, so my 20 gallon sould require less light._

It's the other way around, as you get into smaller tank sizes, you need to increase the w/gal, for tanks over 90 gal you would need less. IMO the w/gal formula isn't more than a starting point. I have a 10 gal tank with 20 Watts of PC lights which would be a very low light tank, but thanks to excellent reflectors I can grow supposedly high-light plants like Glosso.

_-Anyway, if I use the watts/gallon rule, I'm getting about 3 (but this is probably more because it is PC)_

No, it's because of the good reflectors.

_-Lastly, on the website www.aquahobby.com, the author recommends 2 watts/liter, where 20 gallons = 78 liters, that means about 39 watts for my tank. The author seems to know what he's doing; his tanks are stunning and full of growth._

This is confusing for me... you say 2 watts/liter, did you mean 1 watt/2 liters? In any case, as I suggested before... between 40 (okay 39 is good) and 60 Watts should be good...

_So, I'm not sure about the proper wattage and lighting to use for my tank since its only 20 gallons, because I hear that PC bulbs are actually brighter than what their wattage suggests, becuase of AHsupply reflectors are of high quality, and the recommendation of 39 watts total from a well-experienced aquarist. Plus I also plan on doing a ten gallon and hear especially that the watts/gallon rule doesn't apply._

It's not only watts/gal. It's how much light gets into the tank, and how efficient the light is (think incandescent lights...).


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Sorry for the confusion wasserpest. You're right, its 1 watt/2liters and I corrected it. Also thanks for correcting my assumptions about PC blubs, I'm still a noob at this lighting stuff.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

NFish,

Sorry for the confusion. I was planning on CO2 and ferts becuase I thought I would need it, since it seemed that 55W PC with excellent reflectors would be too much light. I actually don't care so much to get into a complicated world of ferts, although I'm willing to if need be and instead of CO2 want to use Flourish Excel. So I would rather mold my carbon and fert needs after lighting, not lighting on carbon and ferts. So what wattage do you think I should do? 

Wasserpest,

Thanks for your excellent reply, however im not sure what your conclusion is for what I should do.

In conculsion, I want to have healthy plants that grow rather up tempo, but don't need them to flourishing like crazy and overtaking my rather small tank.


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

If you plan on using just flourish excel I would stay around 40 watts. With the 55 watt bulb I would suggest pressurized over excel.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Rolo737 said:


> however im not sure what your conclusion is for what I should do.
> 
> In conculsion, I want to have healthy plants that grow rather up tempo, but don't need them to flourishing like crazy and overtaking my rather small tank.


If you go with injected CO2 (DIY OR pressurized) rather than Excel, are willing to keep track of and dose fertilizers, and have some time to spent maintaining the tank every week I think the 55W kit is great. You can grow "high-light" plants this way.

If you would rather a low maintenance tank without adding much fertilizer and CO2, I would suggest to go with 2 NO 20 Watt tubes. Some of the more demanding plants might not grow well.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

While the AH Supply reflectors are very efficient they are not magic. If you have 55 watts over a tank with their reflectors most of that 55 watts gets into the tank. They don't and can't "create" more light. They just do a very good job of getting the available light into the tank.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Rolo737 said:


> -Also, on the AHsupply they say the light out put is greatly increased because the of the high quality reflectors, increasing it by about 167%. (So this too will greatly increase brightness on top of 3W/gallon).


If you look at their website you will find that they compare their reflector to one with a very inefficient design. They take that reflector as the basis (100%), and compare that to their own reflector, which gives them and us the 167%. An example to illustrate that a little more... if with an inefficient designed reflector 35% of the light finds its way into the water, with the famous one 167 (or whatever) % of this is directed down, which would be about 58% of the light, unless my math is off. Can't be more than 100%...
Funny how this 167 number gets stuck in heads and ends up being multiplied with the wattage  

Okay, I will shut up now :mrgreen:


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Yeah I know what mean Wasserpest! I just got a little carried away with their hype.

I have decided to go with a 40-50W option. I do think it will be able to grow “bright” plants well, if I use a quality reflector. I probably overexagerated what I originally meant by “bright,” mentioning using CO2, ferts, a powerful PC 55W for a 20 gallon. I have been reading many plant books and over 80% of the species commentaries were listed under “bright.” 55W isn’t necessary. 

Anyhow, now I have to find a proper light strip or retro fix kit. I’m also in the mood for DIY or modification (this seems inevitable since most light strips come with those cheap white plastic reflectors). The only requirement is it has to be about 40-50W and still within a tight budget of about $50. Any DIY articles or sale references would be appreciated.

BTW, the watts/gallon rule applies to roughly 30-90 gallon tanks only and tanks not within this range have to be adjusted. I don't understand why tanks under 30 need more watts/gallon, my thinking being: smaller tank=less water=less space=less obsticals, but more light? :?


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## Ace (Dec 10, 2003)

Less water mean less home for fish..can't you wait for awhile to get your money pocket to expand so you can get the BEST for your fishes and plants?

Nordic also use Aqua Glo?Me too! Hey nordic how about a date? :lol:


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

The wpg rule breaks down on smaller tanks because the plants need a certain amount of light energy to live no matter how much water they are in. If you have a plant that does well in a 4 wpg 55 gallon tank and then take that plant and put it in a quart jar with a 1 watt pea bulb on in it's getting 4 wpg, but the plant is not long for this world because it's not getting enough energy. Also with smaller tanks you normally are talking about tanks that are not as tall as larger tanks and light spread rears it's ugly head here.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

Ace said:


> Nordic also use Aqua Glo?Me too! Hey nordic how about a date? :lol:


Not soon, unless you're at least a 36C.

Well my lighting today went up from 1.5WPG to 3WPG on my 25gal... And CO2 been pumping away 3 days .

Even they one plant I had which has never made a new leaf in the four months I had it is starting to form a new leaf. Wonder which nutrient I will need to top up on first... (I only use tetra blackwater so far)


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

To bad I got a off topic, anyways I really need help finding the proper lighting for this 20 gallon of mine. 40W preferable and 50W max, PC or NO, retrofix or brand new strip, I just need to get lighting period quickly since this tank is going to be a Christmas gift.


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

I am a big fan of AH due to their reflectors, but that means you need to build a hood and all. ...so to get things moving AND in your budget, here are some relatively inexpensive solutions. 

I have no experience with the quality of them though:

23" Aluminum Lighthouse Single 55 watt bulb $45 

23" Metal Lighthouse Power Compact w/1x65W Bulb 
$69 

24" 1x65W Coralife FRESHWATER Aqualight, 1x 6,700K, -Straight Pin 
$65 

24" 1x65W Coralife FRESHWATER Aqualight, 1x 50/50lamp (not a good lamp for planted tanks), -Straight Pin 
$57 ASWO#8541

COMPACT FLUORESCENT STRIP LIGHT- 24" 55W (OAK) - BULBS INCLUDED 
$64 ASWO#13154 (it has the GE® 9325° Kelvin bulb!)

There are plenty of other options, but these are all quick and in your budget. Perhaps someone can comment on the quality


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## Alex (Nov 6, 2002)

If you want the cheaper, simpler option, the All-Glass twin tube strip lights are only about $35-40 online. This would tend to make more of your light in the back of the tank though.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3800&Ne=40000&R=6767&N=2004+113177

Alex


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## Gomer (Aug 14, 2003)

the 24" strip most likely has twin 15watt bulbs, so that will put you in at the 30watt mark with NO 9325°K bulbs. The ones I mentioned are all PC.

You'll most likely get better coverage with the twin bulbs, but less light.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

A definate downside to the aqua-glo's are short lifespan. 7500 hours


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## George Willms (Jul 25, 2003)

I have two of the aqualight fitures and I like them very much. I do like the all-glass 9325K bulbs, but can't comment on the fixture being as I've never owned one of their PC fxtures.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I wouldn't recommend the AGA fixture. It's cheap, alright, but there is basically no reflector there, and the narrow form blocks the light on the sides, so only a small percentage of the light goes into the tank. I think you would be much better off to DIY, if you have the electrical skills. Build your own hood, paint it bright white inside, get a ballast, endcaps, and your favorite bulbs, screw it all together, and enjoy. You could use a 4 bulb ballast which would allow you to add more bulbs or overdrive the existing ones in the future, when the jungle has grown in, and plants are shading each other.

OR go with one of the 55's... they usually have a decent reflector.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Ok, I'v made my last and final decision for my 20 gallon. Ordering the AHSupply 1x55W bright kit. I thought I was going to do 40W in NO tubes, but it seems almost all were suggesting 55W+ PC fixtures. Anyway, if in the case that the lighting is to strong ? sounds strange I know, that's why originally going with 40W) I was wondering if you can just wrap off a small section of the bulb with Aluminum foil. Does anyone see any problems with this? I was thinking there could be heat build up but AHSupply uses high quality electronic ballasts and claims greater then usual ventilation. Other methods of light reduction?


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

You will be fine. I just placed an order for the same kit for use with a 15 gallon tank. You are only going to be at 2.75 wpg.


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## Nordic (Nov 11, 2003)

dont put foil directly on the tube, it will overheat


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Does anyone know the manufacturer of the 55W bulbs off AHSupply?


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

I think a nice way of reducing light output (not really) and making fish more comfortable is to use floating plants. Ceradopteris (Water Sprite) is really good for that, Duckweed, Salvinia, Riccia, or even stem plants like Myriophyllum that you allow to grow along the surface. Once the rest of the plants on the bottom have reached a certain density you can remove (some of) the floating plants.


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## Rex Grigg (Dec 10, 2002)

I seem to recall that they are Phillips bulbs..... hold on and I will check. Yep. I'm correct. At least the bulbs I got from them are Phillips.


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## Raul-7 (Oct 17, 2003)

Hey, good luck with your tank. What plants are you planning on having? Try some _Phyllanthus fluitans_ as a floating plant, it's stunning! With that light it should trun red, and flower.


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## Rolo (Dec 10, 2003)

Well, here is a large list of plants that appeal to me. Obviously they all won't be going into the tank.

Background
-Elodea (Egeria densa)
-Spadeleaf plant (Gymnocoronis spilanthoides)
-Red hygrophila (Alternanthera reineckii)
-Dwarf hygrophila (Hygrophila polysperma)
-Sunset hygrophila (Hygrophila polysperma rosanervig)
-Giant Hygrophila (Nomaphila stricta)
-Giant ambulia (Limnophila aquatica)

Middleground
-Green ludwigia (Ludwigia palustris)
-Giant bacopa (Bacopa caroliniana)
-Water hedge (Didiplis diandra)
-Stargrass (Heteranthera zosterifolia)
-Cryptocoryne affinis
-Red Ludwigia (Ludwigia Repens)

Foreground
-Cryptocoryne beckettii
-Cryptocoryne willisii
-Cryptocoryne walkeri
-Pygmy Chain Sword (Echnidorus tenellus)
-Dwarf anubias (Anubias barteri var. nana)
-Glosso

These plants will be for a 20 gallon 24X12x16. Does anyone see any that are not suitable? Any favorites or better suggestions will be appreciated since I'm just a noob and choose these plants rather quickly.


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## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

Looks like a nice list. Some of them are real fast growers, others are quite demanding. I think it is a good way to start with the first planted tank: buy a bunch of different plants ("one of each, please") and see how they grow under your conditions. This way you will find the 50 or 70% that like the conditions in your tank, and just as important, that you like to look at. After a few months, from the original 10 or 15 plants that fit into the tank you will have selected the best ones for you.


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## hubbahubbahehe (Sep 13, 2003)

any updates bro on how the 55 watt over a 20 tall is working for ya?

ps were you able to grow the glosso?


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