# Is 0 nitrates in an established planted tank ok?



## paperlilies

So my 10 gal has been up and running for 5 months. No longer dosing Excel or ferts (except root tabs). The bio load is light - 1 betta, 2 snails, 2 ghost shrimp. My plants are slow-medium growth rate, moderately stocked. 

Could 0 nitrates cause problems? blue/green algae (cyanobacteria) or starve the beneficial bacteria in the filter? My betta, snails seem to be happier when I don't add any KNO3. Which matters more to me than the plants.


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## skystrife

The beneficial bacteria in the filter don't process nitrates: this is the last product produced by them. The process is ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate, and it stops there.

Low nitrates could potentially lead to algae if the plants end up starved for nutrients, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

You could reduce the amount of nitrate you dose. For a slow growth tank like that, I'd recommend using a dosing schedule like this (that post assumes a 20 gallon tank, so just half everything). How much were you dosing before? Nitrate can actually get pretty high before you see a negative impact on tank inhabitants.


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## roadmaster

I agree with skystrife 
With slow growing low light plant's, you might be able to provide nutrient's through fish food and fish waste by product's +root tab's.
Is more difficult than some imagine to have zero nitrates in tank holding fishes. Plant's or no plant's.
Nitrates (nitrogen),is one of key nutrient's for plant's.


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## Smooch

Cyanobacteria is caused by poor husbandry. Plants that are starved develop algae as leaves start to die off. Dead leaves don't use nutrients. This is often talked about, but never actually explained.

Root tabs contain nitrates. So if you have root feeders, they should be fine. If you have plants that prefer ferts from the water column, they will eventually start to show wear and tear starting with color. They will get really pale and sickly looking.

Fish and inverts are not bothered by lean dosing of nitrates. I dose my tanks lean and all my fish, including my rams which are supposedly hard to keep and 'finicky' do just fine. I have one amano shrimp that I've had for over a year and he's happy as well. 

Nitrates in and of themselves are harmless and plants do need them. It is when poor husbandry of a tank comes into play that they can cause problems.


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## OVT

Depends on your plants.

No N + Low O2 + light = Cyano.

Husbandry, as in cultivation of crops and lifestock, is a broad definition that neither pinpoints a specific problem nor offers a specific guidance.

Nitrates are not harmless. In a planted tank, 10 - 40 ppm is a good range to shoot for. Less then that and the plants (and the tank) are going downhill. More then that and the fish are going downhill.


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## AbbeysDad

I agree with what's been posted. I'd say with your very light bio-load, you might want to dose a small amount of liquid ferts to keep the plants happy. Let the plants tell yu if they need it...as mentioned, if they begin to yeloow and/or look poorly.


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## Smooch

OVT said:


> Husbandry, as in cultivation of crops and lifestock, is a broad definition that neither pinpoints a specific problem nor offers a specific guidance.
> 
> Nitrates are not harmless. In a planted tank, 10 - 40 ppm is a good range to shoot for. Less then that and the plants (and the tank) are going downhill. More then that and the fish are going downhill.


When people start growing corn out of their tanks, we'll talk further about the cultivation of crops. 

Tanks that have over 80 ppm nitrate levels are the same ones that often complain about cyano bacteria. I see it all the time around here, on You Tube, ect.... Therefore, husbandy does matter and there is a direct link. 

Context, it's a thing. Drama, not so much. 

Low nitrates, pristine water and beautiful tanks.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/731794-xzs-3ft-high-tech-low-tech-nano-experiments.html


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## roadmaster

Cyano bacteria also seem's to go hand in hand with those who clean their filter's maybe once every six month's ,overfeed, and or overstock.and low O2 levels possibly.
Too much organic input for volume of water, and maybe not enough export via water changes or via plant uptake.
We can take comfort that no dosing schemes require more than maybe 20 ppm.
I personally believe that nitrates from the processing of organic matter is much more an issue than nitrates dosed from inorganic mineral salt's at the level's suggested for dosing the planted aquarium. 
I say this because biological oxidation of organic matter(fish food ,fish poop) must first begin with ammonia, and then nitrites, and finally nitrates.It is the ammonia and nitrites that happen first, that are hardest on the fishes not the end result =nitrates.
If you have high nitrates for example in fish only tank,then it was certainly preceded at some point by ammonia and nitrites.(possibly some tap water contributes also)
This is what is hardest on fish.
Inorganic mineral salt's we use as fertilizer do not go through biological oxidation (ie) ammonia to nitrites to nitrates.
Opinion's vary.


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## Smooch

There are instances where high nitrate levels are not the hobbyists' fault. Those are rare, but for those that live near farming areas and have well water often to have to deal with farm runoff which leads to absurd amounts of nitrate levels from their tap. 

In those cases, people need to find another water source. Whether it they buy RO water or invest in a RO system as even drinking water that is that polluted isn't healthy for humans either. 

I've never seen a clean, well maintained tank with cyano outbreak.


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## AbbeysDad

A subject I know all too much about. I have a 95 acre farmers field across the road and have 40-80ppm nitrates in my well water! Good RO systems are expensive (the ones you see for $100-$150 are marginal at best), require an additional pump to maintain inlet psi of 50-80 (my well is on a 30/50 psi controller), and produce approx. 4g of waste water for every 1g of RO water.
I originally opted for the now discontinued API Tap Water Filter. The cartridge cost was high relative to the water yield (with my water). I have now converted a spent tap water filter cartridge to use API Nitra-Zorb to filter nitrates out of my well waterfor partial water changes. It is rechargeable using salt water (either aquarium or non-isodized table salt). Note that there are many nitrate filter products available and using a nitrate filter resin followed by activated carbon makes for an excellent filtration system for drinking and for the aquarium.
_(Note: I was also using reclaimed water from my basement dehumidifier until I realized that it was very high in AMMONIA [how I just can't figure!])_

Once my heavily planted tank is fully established I may just mix filtered and some unfiltered water to supply some nitrates during water changes (remains to be seen).

I will confess that I do not know exactly how the Nitrogen in commercial aquatic ferts compares to nitrates created in the tank. (although I do believe that over fertilizing a tank is like pollution to livestock). I do know that although not as toxic as ammonia or nitrites, long term exposure to high nitrates negatively affects fish in spite of some hobby myths. It can impair their immune systems making injuries difficult to heal, make them more susceptible to disease, and shorten their lifespans.

With the possible exception of hungry plants, I don't think zero nitrates in a tank is a problem - at least not for the fish. In nature, where these fish are found, nitrates are so low they cannot be measured! I'm equally not convinced that cyno bacteria in any way results from low or zero nitrates. I'm thinking now of a plant only tank with no bio-load. What would the nitrates be? <rhetorical>

_(footnote: we have bottled water delivered for drinking)_


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## Smooch

AbbeysDad said:


> A subject I know all too much about. I have a 95 acre farmers field across the road and have 40-80ppm nitrates in my well water! Good RO systems are expensive (the ones you see for $100-$150 are marginal at best), require an additional pump to maintain inlet psi of 50-80 (my well is on a 30/50 psi controller), and produce approx. 4g of waste water for every 1g of RO water.
> I originally opted for the now discontinued API Tap Water Filter. The cartridge cost was high relative to the water yield (with my water). I have now converted a spent tap water filter cartridge to use API Nitra-Zorb to filter nitrates out of my well waterfor partial water changes. It is rechargeable using salt water (either aquarium or non-isodized table salt). Note that there are many nitrate filter products available and using a nitrate filter resin followed by activated carbon makes for an excellent filtration system for drinking and for the aquarium.
> _(Note: I was also using reclaimed water from my basement dehumidifier until I realized that it was very high in AMMONIA [how I just can't figure!])_
> 
> Once my heavily planted tank is fully established I may just mix filtered and some unfiltered water to supply some nitrates during water changes (remains to be seen).
> 
> I will confess that I do not know exactly how the Nitrogen in commercial aquatic ferts compares to nitrates created in the tank. (although I do believe that over fertilizing a tank is like pollution to livestock). I do know that although not as toxic as ammonia or nitrites, long term exposure to high nitrates negatively affects fish in spite of some hobby myths. It can impair their immune systems making injuries difficult to heal, make them more susceptible to disease, and shorten their lifespans.
> 
> With the possible exception of hungry plants, I don't think zero nitrates in a tank is a problem - at least not for the fish. In nature, where these fish are found, nitrates are so low they cannot be measured! I'm equally not convinced that cyno bacteria in any way results from low or zero nitrates. I'm thinking now of a plant only tank with no bio-load. What would the nitrates be? <rhetorical>
> 
> _(footnote: we have bottled water delivered for drinking)_


I had you in mind when I spoke of well water in farming areas as I've read posts of yours talking about that very issue.

I'm not convinced that a tank with fish in it can have zero nitrates in it in the first place. Then considering how inaccurate nitrate test kits are, a person can get a zero reading just from not shaking a bottle hard enough which is ridiculous, but API....

As for the nitrates fish produce, fish absorb what they're bodies need from the food they are fed. What is not absorbed or used is passed as waste. No news flash there, however, when people say to feed their tank fish poop, is that really giving plants all the nutrition they need? I'm going with no unless somebody can show me otherwise.

What bothers me the most about this whole nitrate thing is there is so much crap out there about what causes things like cyano bacteria that people are actually afraid of nitrates. I'm not suggesting that this is the case of OP, but there are people will go to great lengths to avoid them. It's not necessary, but does show that if something is repeated enough, in some minds such bad information somehow translates to fact.


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## OVT

Cyanosite Research Links


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## AbbeysDad

Smooch said:


> I had you in mind when I spoke of well water in farming areas as I've read posts of yours talking about that very issue.


I wish it wasn't so...I had to learn the hard way because I had no idea back in the 70's when I built here...oh well (no pun intended)



Smooch said:


> I'm not convinced that a tank with fish in it can have zero nitrates in it in the first place. Then considering how inaccurate nitrate test kits are, a person can get a zero reading just from not shaking a bottle hard enough which is ridiculous, but API....


I'm uncertain. In a heavily planted tank with a very low bio-load, inasmuch as plants can/will process ammonia instead of beneficial bacteria, it 'could' be possible. I haven't seen it yet, but it could happen I guess. I recently watched a Youtube (that seemed really credible) where the fellow claimed he had high nitrates in his well water, does a 50% water change and by the next day has zero nitrates - he believes his plants along with anaerobic bacteria in his substrate processes all the nitrates very quickly.




Smooch said:


> As for the nitrates fish produce, fish absorb what they're bodies need from the food they are fed. What is not absorbed or used is passed as waste. No news flash there, however, when people say to feed their tank fish poop, is that really giving plants all the nutrition they need? I'm going with no unless somebody can show me otherwise.


I've been an organic vegetable gardener (3000 sq. ft.) for some 30 years. I 'feed' my soil all manner of yard and garden waste, fall leaves, green manures...and let the soil biology and worms enrich my soil.
In the aquarium, with a sufficient bio-load, fish/plant waste and uneaten food decompose and Malaysian Trumpet snails (like worms in my garden) will work to also convert the waste into plant usable nutrients. I believe it may very well be possible in a low tech tank to use little, if any, chemical ferts...just need the right balance.
I saw another Youtube where a fellow with several tanks indicated that he does not use any ferts in his tanks - they sure looked good.



Smooch said:


> What bothers me the most about this whole nitrate thing is there is so much crap out there about what causes things like cyano bacteria that people are actually afraid of nitrates. I'm not suggesting that this is the case of OP, but there are people will go to great lengths to avoid them. It's not necessary, but does show that if something is repeated enough, in some minds such bad information somehow translates to fact.


I'm no expert on cyno bacteria beyond knowing I don't want it! Had it once, don't want it again!
But I do believe (as do experts now) that although not as toxic as ammonia and nitrites, high nitrates, long term, are very bad for fish.


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