# Quarantine



## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Comes up a bunch with folks wondering what to do. I was no different starting out. 
Here's my bomb to date on what I do trying to protect my 14 current tanks. 
(updating this post 12/17/2011. currently up to 24 flooded water boxes LMAO) 
All reviewing this thread *PLEASE READ and fully understand the following paragraph.*

*Disclaimer!!! * I am a hobby breeder and keeper of water weeds and tropical fish. While I have played with fish tanks for >30yrs. I am NOT a vet or have I ever attended any medical training classes other than basic first aid and CPR training. I am not an educated chemist. Included in my QT thread is my opinion and my personal experiences. What's included also are the posted experiences of others in an effort to share. It needs to be stated and understood that what we include here is based on personal experiences and input mainly from breeder related websites. 
*Verify any information contained to your comfort level before following any advice included in this thread.
* Ask questions!!! I am truly sorry that in trying to share information that I learned through hard lessons that somebody found out it wasn't enough. Ultimately Shawn found he was dealing with fish Mycobacterium. The thread makes a great read on a worst case scenario. 
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/156350-help-me-diagnose-disease-thats-killing.html

*Entry quarantine* (imo a real one)

Fish are first placed in a bare tank. 
First day here nobody new gets fed and the tank remains dark. After 24hrs. I feed lightly and go from there.
3-10 days later (time in my schedule) they are placed in the established long term quarantine tank.
My long term entry tank is a 20g *T*all placed far away from all my established systems. 
The 20T quarantine is loaded with plants and cycled before the fish arrive. Once new fish are in house daily I check ammonia and nitrite to make sure the plants and the HOB filter are keeping up with the livestock load. 
This is the first week adding fish and changing the bio loading on the tank.
After a week I'll first treat with flubendazole then move to the next plant safe parasite med. Without anything exciting after 45 days I can add them to my tanks.
It may be harder on me if things go south starting with a planted introduction/quarantine but the fish drop stress fast calming down really fast. They settle in so much faster with a furnished tank. Even though exposure to a planted quarantine may be adding things to the tanked environment of the newcomers thats where they end up here anyway,,, a planted tank.
The plants do help with the water quality too. Helping balance with the changing bio-load. All the plants are low light fast growers so if I have to break things down because I receive a truly nasty surprise with new fish all I lose is time because I reload with trimmings from the other tanks. I can't even imagine anymore doing an extended quarantine in a bare tank. Dealing daily with siphoning the waste and water changes. Not to mention species like pandas, otto's, abn or loaches that feel better with cover. They stay stressed the whole time in a bare tank.
PVC tubes aren't much better. 
One somewhat disposable quarantine/introduction system and the patience to use it is the only way to protect all the hard work of a display tank.
(in my opinion)

UV sterilizers sized correctly to the flow rate for parasite kill are great for knocking out free swimming parasites. Not a cure all but it does reduce exposure and help with not spreading problems.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*Details*

Hopefully adding all this up I get it here where it still makes sense to somebody.

Hardcore Quarantine FYI 
________________________________________
With established long term quarantine I have added 25 panda's and 25 otto's in a single purchase. (Again this tank is pre-set and always fully cycled.) Using smaller tanks like 10g tanks I would suggest a sponge filter and bare bottom so you can keep them clean and use partial to 50% changes from your main tank daily or new water daily. 10g tanks can have the water quality go south very quickly.

Entry quarantine for me is about 45 days. Separate EVERYTHING for the QT. 
Nets hoses etc. need to be treated/cleaned before touching your other tanks.

Have any sea salt? Rock salt for a water conditioner?
Tall Tupperware or extra bucket? Add salt to the water until the water column reaches saturation and no more salt will dissolve. Some salt lying on the bottom of the container that won't do anything but sit there in crystal form tells you you're at saturation. Drop tools into this bucket to soak a few minutes and very few things can survive rinse the tool and on to the next tank. I like H2O2 but the reaction can be in question with the organics breaking it down so fast. Salt doesn't evaporate only the water so this 'kill bucket' is good until you get tired of looking at it or it gets smelly. (pet store trick) 
I use H2O2 for cleaning hoses by mixing 1qt H2O2 with 1g of RO water placing both ends of my siphon hose in the bucket with a power head shoved in one end. I cycle the peroxide solution through it overnight once a week on my longer main tank drain hose and use a separate shorter hose for the QT tank. Bleach is used by many but I stop at peroxide. HP is a strong enough oxidizer (imo). 

Worked hard establishing my systems and like the fish I have.
I would not expose them to other acquired fish without a full quarantine including parasite and deworming treatments. Sick fish are very hard for a hobbyist to treat so I avoid the potential being very careful.

Some of my personal experiences posted to the web and my thoughts handling fish. (learning the hard way)
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/117216-how-long-new-fish-holding-tank.html

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/general-planted-tank-discussion/119268-completely-confused.html

The treatment most miss all together is to WORM YOUR FISH! We treat our dogs, cats, pigs, horses, cows,,, the list is endless. But not our fish. Not anymore for this fish keeper.
I now start internally with all new fish and go from there.

1st flubendazole, 2nd levaisole hcl and metronidazole, most everything's covered for parasites.
Flubendazole and Levaisole hcl are water column dosed and help even when fish hunger strikes.
Flubendazole is a plant safe parasite treatment but has to be ordered online (to my knowledge). It covers a broad range of bugs too. (not all but a bunch) *** it also kills snails but is safe for shrimp by user reports including folks here on TPT.
Velvet and Ick are also covered by a flu treatment Doc sells as little or as much as you want.
Other sources are out there in the UK and maybe others via the web but I’ve ordered from ‘the Doc’.
http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html
Article links;
http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/FlubendazoleTreatment.pdf
http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/FlubendazoleArticle.pdf

Bare tank treatments during quarantine if trouble is discovered.

External treatments include H2O2 and salt. (salt use is really rare for me)
Initial bacterial treatment (bare tank scaled fish only) if indicated is a 3% HP bath. 
Standard over the counter 3% hydrogen peroxide mixed to 10mL per gallon.
*Maximum Dosage Information Provided!!!!*
1 U.S. Teaspoon = 4.92892159 milliliters
2 teaspoons of H2O2 per gallon is perfect! 

2-3 hour soak then 50% WC, 24hrs. later another 25% WC and the treatment is complete.
This treatment is the dose used to kill algae and practically all bacteria and parasites, protozoan’s, etc. 

3% topical hydrogen peroxide treatment in an established quarantine tank.

Treatment of 10mL per gallon is still the dose used. Established treatment at this dosage is to isolate the filter (shut it down) allow for circulation with a power head or air stone. 3-5 hour stand time (longer due to tank bacteria, gravel etc,) on the treatment then do a 50% water change followed by a 25% water change after 24 hours. The filter can be restarted after the 50% water change. Delicate plants can melt.

This is the highest dosing of HP recommended by fish breeders on my other favorite website. I've used this dosing level twice to good result and followed the water changing recommendation. Not a chemist or Vet this stuff is personal experience.

HP has strong oxidizing properties. The oxidizing capacity of hydrogen peroxide is so strong that it is considered a highly reactive oxygen. (Wikipedia)

*H2O2 effects the slime coat and really weakened fish don't handle it well. Scaleless fish are burned bad enough not to survive. Cory, Loach and pleco’s have reacted badly to high level HP baths.*

Back in 2009 I treated my Angels with H2O2 and antibiotic's both gram negative and positive. Thought it helped. Knocked back the external signs but left latent parasites internal to the fish that destroyed them from the inside out over time. 


Salt dip:

I asked JP for his recipe as I don't use it much.
This bath is in a separate container with a close eye on the fish.
Many different methods, Ted just uses his brine shrimp solution (if that’s like mine it’s 1/2cup per gallon).

I prefer to start with 2Tsp per gallon and increase at 10-minute intervals until I get to 6Tsp per gallon total. That way they’ve been in the salt longer and my logic tells me that the parasite, etc. has been exposed longer. With Ted’s method, I would think fish would roll in a few minutes. With my method, they will generally roll within a few minutes @ 6Tsp per gallon – some roll at 4tsp/gal.

Pre-dissolve the salt and add slowly from side containers. 
Set up your gallon container (bucket or whatever) with the first 2 tsp dissolved in it and have cups holding the remaining salt in solution. 
Watch the fish the whole time.
When the fish heels over (rolls belly up, on its side in distress) net it and put it back in the tank.

**** This is angelfish treatment information. Scaleless fish such as loaches, Cory do not tolerate salt well at all and salt baths generally kill them.*

Hopefully some of this will be useful to you or tucked away until it is.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*Feeding options*

If fish are fed medicated foods and as some folks state they won’t eat them well,, In a bare QT tank after 3-4 days any fish you have in there will eat cardboard. A fish being off its feed for two or three days is not an issue for concern. We’re not talking about a hunger strike here but preferred diet. 

Medicated food is another way to worm a fish. 

Metronidazole - Anti Protazoan Flake for internal parasites.

Feed Anti-Parasite Medicated Fish Food Active Ing.-> metronidazole 1.0%, praziquantel 0.5%, levamisole 0.4% 

Anti-Bacteria Medicated Fish Food Active ing.-> sodium sulfathiazole 2.3% & nitrofurazone 0.13%. Feeding twice a day, 5 days of one, then 5 days of the other.


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

great info mike. QT is essential. if you dont think so, it will bite you in the rear one day.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

Thanx D. Had the thought that stuffing all this mind numbing info in one thread with a clean title might make it easier to share. At least I'll know where I put it LOL.

This last post of information really caught my attention for IDK treatments. (IDK = I Don't Know)

This one is posted over on FishGeeks. Most of the time we tankers see symptoms not the real cause and don't treat correctly with the fish dying, money wasted, problems spreading. Toxic soups are almost as bad. This combination is as broad based as can be attacking a problem blind. Its well thought out and has great detail. (imo)

Treating Bacterial Infections with Maracyn/Maracyn 2

There are multiple symptoms that bacterial infections can cause. These include finrot, tailrot, mouth “fungus”, flex, septicemia, and sometimes, depending on the cause, popeye, dropsy, and swim bladder disease. First line of defense against infections is good water conditions. Most infections and other health problems are opportunistic; meaning they will most often show themselves only on already weakened fish. The best way to prevent this from happening is regular water changes and good water conditions. If a bacterial infection does show itself, most, but not all, of these are easily treatable with a combination of Maracyn and Maracyn 2. The reason for using both at the same time is that one will treat the current infection, while the other will prevent a secondary infection from setting in on the weakened fish while the first is being treated. Some strains are resistant to the maracyns and may require a different or stronger antibiotic. If there is no improvement after 1 course of the maracyns, a change to a different antibiotic is recommended. If there is improvement, but the infection is not gone, a second course of the maracyns is recommended. 

Maracyn and Maracyn 2 both state on the box that they do not harm the bacterial filter. I have not had any problems with it harming a bacterial filter, nor have I heard anyone else say it wiped out their bacterial filter. However I do still recommend quarantine when using these meds, for 2 reasons. First, it will prevent the infection from spreading further to the rest of the fish, as well as allow the fish a low stress environment in which to recover. Second, I am hesitant to fully trust broad-spectrum antibiotics not to damage a bacterial colony. A qt tank can be as simple as a Rubbermaid tub with lid that has not had soap in it, with a heater and sponge filter.

To treat with the Maracyn combo, you first want to do a large water change to get ammonia/nitrite/nitrates as low as possible before starting treatment. Try to treat for the full 5 days with no water change. Do test water daily for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate. If you see results of ammonia greater than 0.25, nitrite greater than 1.0, or nitrate approaching 20, you will have to do a partial water change. In this case, simply redose the meds to the level they were at before the water change. For example, if you have done 3 days of treatment, with 1 tab each day to the water, you have added 3 tabs to a 10 gal. tank. If you do a 5 gal. water change, you would add 3 days x .5 tabs (5 gal. instead of 10), or 1 ½ tabs to the replacement water. Then continue with your regular dosing schedule. After the 5 day treatment, do 2 large water changes, 50% each, 12 hours apart. This will remove most of the meds from the water, and give the fish a much-needed break from the meds. If the infection is gone, there is no need to retreat. Continue to watch the fish for a week in the qt tank to make sure there is no reoccurrence. If it is not gone, follow the recommendations in the first paragraph regarding resistant strains of bacteria.

Things to keep in mind when treating with the maracyns: First, it will cloud the water, maybe even make it quite murky. This is normal. Second, it will reduce the level of oxygen in the water. Therefore increased circulation in the tank is necessary to increase the oxygen level. This can be done either with a bubbler or by lowering the water level so there is more splash from the filter return. Third, these meds are sensitive to light. Keep the light off during treatment. Fourth, make sure to remove any carbon from the filter, as it will remove the meds from the water. Replace the carbon when treatment is complete for the same reason. Fifth, when treating for finrot/tailrot/mouth “fungus”/flex/columnaris: the same bacteria, flexibacter columnaris, cause all these diseases. This bacteria spreads faster in temps over 76. When treating for these infections, lower the temp below 76, but not much more than 2 degrees per day to avoid shock to the already ill fish.

Note to remember when treating for popeye, dropsy, or swim bladder disease. There are many different things that can cause these diseases; from poor water conditions being the most frequent offender, to constipation, parasites, genetics, and also bacterial infections. Antibiotics will only help if it is a bacterial cause. Therefore when treating for these diseases, it is imperative to find the cause in order to successfully treat these conditions. This is why these diseases so frequently cause mortality, because by the time you see the dropsy or swim bladder problems, there is often not enough time left to find the correct cause of the disease and treat it. There are supportive treatments that can help get the fish through until a cause can be found. These vary depending on the disease.
It is my hope that this will help you successfully treat your sick fish, and increase your understanding of bacterial infections in fish. Good luck, and happy fishkeeping!
Note: _Published at FishGeeks with permission from the author._

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/f...ium-medications-their-active-ingredients.html


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## The Dude (Feb 8, 2011)

Awesome thread. I'm bumping this up for my personal use. I was advised to use Maricyn and Maricyn 2, but I don't have a QT tank. I'm going to get one tomorrow. I thought it was best to use use a bare tank?


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

How about larger potted plants in an otherwise bare tank? Places for the fish to hide and easier to remove than substrate planted tank.


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## roadmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

My quarantine tank is twenty gallon with Heater and borrowed sponge filter from established tank(s).No food or light for first 24 to 48 hours, no substrate,fake plant's (fish don't care).
Fish remain in quarantine for two to three weeks.
Medicate only for symptoms presented.
Have tried live plant's but some meds,salt treatment's, kill plant's which then foul the water.
Even a rubbermaid tub can be used for quarantine in a pinch.


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## audioaficionado (Apr 19, 2011)

The clear Hefty storage tubs in Costco are pretty nice too.


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## ncharlie (May 20, 2011)

How do you treat constipation in a FISH?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

ncharlie said:


> How do you treat constipation in a FISH?


epsom salt


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## kamikazi (Sep 3, 2010)

ncharlie said:


> How do you treat constipation in a FISH?


feed it mushed, shelled peas


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## nonconductive (Jan 29, 2010)

epsom salt works better than peas IME


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## ncharlie (May 20, 2011)

Regarding finding the cause of a fish illness .. .

How do you know?

Not you can't really do a blood test and cultures.

I have a otto succumbing to popeye. (I am about to pull him from the tank). 

I did salt, water changes (water was fine) and doxycycline. I could not get Marasyn Plus (recommended) in time.

Alot of threads says you need to know the cause of the illness.

I am guessing folks just look at the fish and look for symptoms or signs, but there are no "tests"

Thanks


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

ncharlie said:


> Regarding finding the cause of a fish illness .. .
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> ...


Unfortunately most of the time treating sick fish is guesswork other than the simple stuff or external parasites/fungus. That's why entry quarantine is a must on an established system. Rarely do local vets even have the training. Use of a microscope and proper training is beyond most so broad spectrum treatment and guesswork for the only choice. 

Entry quarantine, worming, good foods and proper tank care eliminate most disasters before they start. A few folks on the forums desire to know and have dedicated themselves through self training with trial and error to find the answers. I rely heavily on my breeder friends on TAFF II Carol and jpdevol among others. ReefkprZ here and MatsP on PlanetCatfish have also been helpful on occasion. 

good luck with your fish


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

I'm posting this here per wkndracer's request. This is my experience with treating camallanus worms in my 29 gallon tank.

Just wanted to share my experience recently with Camallanus worms, so that maybe my info will help some other people in the future. 

Brief background. I have had a 29 gallon tank set up for 3 years now. Over the years I have never dealt with any parasites or really any sickness, that I know of. Within this last year, I finally got my tank planted and scaped to my satisfaction ( I need to do a journal on this thing). Also, I finally got it stocked with what I feel is a good mix of fish, some might say overstocked. lol The stock has changed a few times. Gave some fish to friends, moved some to another tank, some died of old age, and some died from a heater malfunction, but nothing to disease.... at least to my knowledge, nothing has died of a disease.

So to get the with the story. I have had my bristlenose pleco that I got from a member on here (toddnbecka for a year, my school of cardinal tetras for almost a year, some hatchet fish and bolivan rams for about 6 months and a marbled angelfish for a few months. 

I noticed when I added the bolivian rams that one had something weird by it's vent, but thought maybe it was part of the fish. You'd have to see it to understand. Anyways, after several months I came to realize that it wasn't natural, and indeed was camallanus worms. 

I had purchased some pancur with fenbendazole a while back and after consulting another member on here for dosing size, decided to try it out on the camallanus worms. 

To prepare I did a large water change and removed my nerite snails to my 10 gallon tank. I had read that nerites would die from fenbendazole, so I took them out. I left in my amano shrimp. Next I took a water bottle and put in some tank water, and poured in the fenbedazole. I next mixed in some freezed dried bloodworms, flake, and an algae wafer. I let them soak in there for several hours. 

After the food and fenbendazole had mixed together I poured it slowly into the tank. Every fish in there ate as usual. I left the lights out and tank undisturbed for 48 hours after they ate. After 48 hours I turned on the lights and inspected the tank. All fish were alive and well, along with my amano shrimp and mts, but the bolivian ram showing the camallanus worm was still there. I fed the fish and they ate as normal. Did a huge water change and observed for the next several days. All fish remained normal acting, but the worms never did pass.

So I decided to order some Levamisole. I dosed it directly in the tank on monday. Today, 48 hours later.... NO MORE WORMS!!! It's also worth mentioning the lights were left off the whole time as well, as I have read that levamisole is light sensitive. No ill effects on the plants from lack of light I might add.

I will follow up with a treatment again in 3 weeks, incase there were any eggs that hatched between now and then.

I have read on the net that some people had the opposite luck from me. They used levamisole and it didn't work, so they then used fenbedazole. 

By the way, I purchased the levamisole from this site. http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html The guy was quick to respond and answer my questions and shipped the stuff out on the same day.

Also, I'd like to note that I truly believe a quarantine tank is a necessity. I've been lucky to not have had anything major happen and wipe out my fish. Buying a 10 gallon tank and a sponge filter with a pump or something similar for a quick setup quarantine tank is definitely something I think we should all invest in. I plan on doing so.

*And for the record. If anyone reading this just purchased plants from me, don't worry. I don't sell any plants from this tank. All the plants I have sold come from my shrimp tank and I don't share water jugs, siphons, or anything between the two tanks.


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## DKRST (Jan 20, 2011)

*Flubeandazole and dissolving it in water*

For Flubendazole info, please read the second paragraph. Having fought the Camallanus worms, all I can say is ditto on the quarantine and prophylactic treatment for parasites. I used fenbendazole-dosed food for 5 days a week x 3 cycles and it worked after Levamisole did not. However, I ran my T5HOs the entire time I dosed Levamisole and that probably caused degradation of the medicine. One note - I think it's hard to actually overdose Levamisole, but I don't recommend experimenting too much!

*Regarding Flubendazole* - I had a Ph.D. in Bio/organic chemistry look over the molecular structure of Flubendazole. Based on the Flubendazole molecular structure, it doesn't dissolve in water (sort of). _Qualitatively_, not much/none appears to dissolve in water. However- while flubendazole does not _appear _to dissolve, small quantities do actually dissolve. This small amount of Flubendazole that dissolves is apparently enough to reach therapeutic levels in a tank. After some discussion regarding chemical kinetics (yeech), my colleague and I decided the best dosing method for a tank would probably be to add the Flubendazole powder or a slurry directly to a canister or HOB intake. That application traps the Flubendazole powder "grains" in the filter and helps dissolve them through the kinetic action of water continually flowing across the Flubendazole molecules. 

Heat, alcohol, and Flubendazole - The manufacturers MSDS sheets on Flubendazole (that's Material Safety Data Sheets) indicate that Flubendazole is not soluble in water, but can be dissolved in MDSO and alcohol and by using heat. 

MDSO- is a powerful solvent that should *NEVER *be used for this purpose. It will dissolve Flubendazole 100%, but if you get it on your skin, you will get an instant absorption of the dose, with potentially baaad results! It's also pointless to use DMSO or alcohol because as soon as you dump the MDSO mixture into the tank, the Flubendazole precipitates out of solution.

Alcohol - Like MDSO, the same  thing happens when you dissolve in alcohol. It's safer for human skin contact, but once added to the tank, the Flubendazole will precipitate (come out of solution), that's what gives you the cloud effect as it's poured in. If the Flubendazole was truly dissolved you would not see any white cloud. Again, based on the chemical structure, we estimate a 30% solution of alcohol would be required (in the tank itself!) to keep the Flubendazole in solution. Talk about SWI (swimming while intoxicated :icon_wink ).

Heat - Heating Flubendazole to dissolve is probably not recommended. It may not hurt anything, but there is a part of the molecule that is heat-labile and will break off when heated, changing the molecule slightly. It may make the Flubendazole less effective or more effective, I don't know. Heating probably does make it dissolve more easily based on the molecular structure. 

Long-term (very long term) storage of Flubendazole should take place at 0C to -80C based on manufacturers recommendations. Room temp should be fine for aquarists use, but make certain you keep the Flu powder dry and tightly sealed. It is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs water from the atmosphere and will get lumpy and nasty over time if left exposed.

Hope this chemistry information is useful to folks. I'm not saying anyone needs to change what they are doing. I just wish I had know this chemistry info before I spent two solid days trying to dissolve Flu in water on a magnetic stir plate! :icon_mad:

Note-there are variations of Flu produced that are modified to be more water soluble. Those "variations" of the molecule likely have different manufacturer or chemical names.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

DKRST thanks for the detailed information!
No argument with any part of it and glad to have the reference.

What I've had to work with has been web based information posted on various forums with the breeder sites being the primary source.

Materials and dosing data posted here in the thread are mainly from: 
Charles Harrison, Ph.D
http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html

Dosing into my tanks when the canister or HOB method you mentioned above won't work I do make a soup of sorts. Getting the flu into solution and into the water column is the biggest challenge of applying the treatment. 

I settled on a combination of heat and alcohol after contact with Dr. Harrison.
Dosed dry the first time it took days for it to stop floating in the tank on the waters surface.

Alcohol (vodka) is mixed into the measured dose in a glass container. Only enough to make a paste or slurry out of the flu powder around 1ml more or less, just enough to wet it. Heating a cup of water to boiling in the microwave I wait until the boil settles then add the water in on top of the slurry. Some foaming occurs during the mixing but the majority of the material mixes very well doing this. The liquid is milky in the mixing cup and the tank becomes milky / cloudy as mentioned above but the dilution created by the tanks total volume seems to allow the chemicals to be absorbed into solution and remain suspended by all the evidence following a treatment. My tanks are clear the following morning. Fish have recovered every time I've used the treatment with the exception of two long infested adults. Those fish died with a bloody discharge seeping from the vent. Assuming to much internal damage due to long term exposure to the parasites is my belief. Those losses happened during initial treatment of my tanks when first learning about Flubendazole.

Dr. Harrison includes the chemical chain of the Flubendazole he supplies on his website. I have no idea whether or not it varies from the one you tested.
I do know it has been an effective method of treatment.


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## DKRST (Jan 20, 2011)

wkndracer said:


> DKRST thanks for the detailed information!
> No argument with any part of it and glad to have the reference
> 
> I do know it has been an effective method of treatment.


I'm using it from Doc myself, based on your recommendations. I have had no problems with it myself, I just got curious why I couldn't get it into solution when Doc clearly labels it as "water soluble". He's correct from a therapeutic dose standpoint, but it worried me when I had powder all along my tank waterline.


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## karatekid14 (Jan 16, 2011)

I have a 10g that will be a quarantine and I don't know if parasites could survive on plants after cleaning the tank. I thought it would be bare bottom with plants in pots to reduce stress rather than have it be completely empty. Good idea?


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## leegordon79 (Aug 24, 2011)

DKRST said:


> For Flubendazole info, please read the second paragraph. Having fought the Camallanus worms, all I can say is ditto on the quarantine and prophylactic treatment for parasites. I used fenbendazole-dosed food for 5 days a week x 3 cycles and it worked after Levamisole did not. However, I ran my T5HOs the entire time I dosed Levamisole and that probably caused degradation of the medicine. One note - I think it's hard to actually overdose Levamisole, but I don't recommend experimenting too much!
> 
> *Regarding Flubendazole* - I had a Ph.D. in Bio/organic chemistry look over the molecular structure of Flubendazole. Based on the Flubendazole molecular structure, it doesn't dissolve in water (sort of). _Qualitatively_, not much/none appears to dissolve in water. However- while flubendazole does not _appear _to dissolve, small quantities do actually dissolve. This small amount of Flubendazole that dissolves is apparently enough to reach therapeutic levels in a tank. After some discussion regarding chemical kinetics (yeech), my colleague and I decided the best dosing method for a tank would probably be to add the Flubendazole powder or a slurry directly to a canister or HOB intake. That application traps the Flubendazole powder "grains" in the filter and helps dissolve them through the kinetic action of water continually flowing across the Flubendazole molecules.
> 
> ...


I'm not a chemist, but how can a powder that is hygroscopic not dissolve in water?


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## shane3fan (Nov 2, 2009)

> The treatment most miss all together is to WORM YOUR FISH! We treat our dogs, cats, pigs, horses, cows,,, the list is endless. But not our fish. Not anymore for this fish keeper.
> I now start internally with all new fish and go from there.



Ive never done any QT with my fish, nor have I done any treatment for worms/parasites. BUT, I will from now on. 

I recently had some issues with random fish deaths and they would begin with the fish not eating, getting lazy and seperating from the group. Sometimes they would grab a bite of food but spit it back out and move back away from the food. At the same time I had a few hydra showing up in my shrimp tank. So, I began treating with flubendazole for the hydra. I had some extra from the packet that I purchased and used it to treat my other tanks. Within a couple of days the fish that werent eating were back in the schools and eating like pigs. I havent had a dead fish since I treated the tanks.


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## BradH (May 15, 2008)

I meant to report something else in this thread about my experience. When I dosed the levamisole, I got rid of the worms, but 2 of my fish that were eating like pigs before, stopped eating. They just now started eating again today and it's been since august the 9th when I dosed. All the other fish have been ok.


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## DKRST (Jan 20, 2011)

leegordon79 said:


> I'm not a chemist, but how can a powder that is hygroscopic not dissolve in water?


That's something I wondered as well, and I'll ask my chemist colleague. It is noted on most of the FLU chemical data information that it's hygroscopic however!

ok - I checked with my chemist friend about the "hydroscopicity" of a molecule (Flu) that is not particularly soluble. The answer went over my head very quickly, but it has to do with the structure of the molecule, the way the compound is prepared by the manufacturer, and some other things I simply did not understand! Short answer is a molecule that is strongly hygroscopic (water absorbing) _is _usually water soluble. However, there are some molecular structures that attract water and are not particularly water soluble (like Flu).



BradH said:


> I meant to report something else in this thread about my experience. When I dosed the levamisole, I got rid of the worms, but 2 of my fish that were eating like pigs before, stopped eating. They just now started eating again today and it's been since august the 9th when I dosed. All the other fish have been ok.


My cory's were the same way with the Levamisole regarding a reduced appetite and lethargy. No harm done and they perked up after a water change, but my Corys certainly seemed a little more sensitive to it than my angelfish.


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## JasonG75 (Mar 1, 2011)

WOW I am glad I buy from a reputable store that does this before she sells, or I would be out of this hobby..never Q.


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## RAZmonkey (Jul 7, 2011)

Bump. 

Question for those with "stuff" in their quarantine tanks...(stuff meaning plants, gravel, other scape elements)

After your 30-45 day quarantine, assuming it was uneventful and you've moved the fish to the display, do you break down the tank and clean everything and reset up before quarantining a new batch?

Reason I ask, is that I'd like to add some algae/cleanup crew type fish to my tank....so I'm setting up a quarantine tank. If it all goes well, I'd like to then grow-up some smaller angels to eventually add to my main tank. I wondered if I needed to break down the tank between fish batches if everything was ok?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

I leave mine setup and only in case of ugly break it down.
Only once in 2 years have I felt the quarantine needed cleaning.


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## DKRST (Jan 20, 2011)

I keep my 10g QT up and running. After treatment, there should not be any nasties left in the QT tank. I add plant trimmings, sometimes snails (the Flu kills MTS very quickly), and keep a couple of deformed guppies (too soft-hearted to cull) in the tank to keep it cycled and pleasantly decorated.

NOTE - I now also QT my plants after getting some unwanted snails introduced.


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## fresh.salty (Jul 2, 2010)

This is from a thread I started a couple days ago. Op here suggested it be reposted in this thread in hopes of having an all-in-one QT thread. I agree, so...
*****************************
*
Maintaining a quarantine tank long term*

I've always wondered about the best way to keep a quarantine tank running continuously with minimal power usage.

All that's needed to set one up once you have the need is a tank, filter and heater. Light would be nice but would depend on where the tank is located. If you wait until the need arises I've considered it somewhat counterproductive without a cycled filter to use. If your QT period is as long as it should be the tank would be ready for fish about the time the QT period is over.

For me, space to keep one running continuously isn't an issue. I have room in the garage and room at my business to keep it running. The cost of heating it though only to use it a few times a years has been my concern.

Keeping the bacteria colonies alive with a food source seems easy enough, just a pinch of food every once in a while. Temperature of an unheated tank had me wondering what would happen to those colonies.

Last week I asked these questions of Timothy A. Hovanec, Ph.D. via email. He's the owner of Dr. Tim's Aquatics and formerly of Marineland. I met him briefly about 15 years ago at Marineland's corporate office in Moorpark, CA when I was training for point of sale sales program they had. That was a fun job and I did that for several years.

Anyway, here's the conversation. I'll breakup my two-part question and his answers.

I explained the questions were regarding keeping a QT tank ready and I wrote...


> #1 food source to maintain at least minimal biologic activity. My
> thinking is an occasional pinch of flake food or whatever would
> solve that.

Dr. Tim's response...
Quote:
some fish food or a drop or two of ammonium chloride once in a
while. the bacteria do NOT die if not fed everyday (they are not
human) so periodic feeding keeps them going
I wrote...
> #2 temperature How important is temperature range? If you keep a
> quarantine tank in the garage in SoCal without heat it can still
> get down in to the 50's. When it comes time to make use of the
> tank, say at 77°, how will that effect the viability of the
> bacteria? Is there a tighter temp range that we should aim for?
> Simple thing would be to just keep the tank warm but I prefer not
> to spin the power meter any faster than necessary.

Dr. Tim's response...
Quote:
As long as the water does not freeze being colder is actually better
for 'preserving' the bacteria because it slows them down. Think of
if this way - they are an energy cell with a capacity of X. The rate
they use up X is temperature dependent - the lower the temp the
slower they use X. But they can respond very fast - plug the heater
in and let the temperature rise into the 70's and they will start
working very fast. We did this with the old BioSpira - kept in a
refrigerator around 50 F at the store and then pour into the aquarium
around 75F and they go to work immediately.
I'll glad to see that with minimal ongoing cost I can maintain a tank that would be ready once it's brought out of hibernation in a short time.

Found this interesting and hopefully prevents some from bypassing a QT
period and risking all the other livestock. I know it's not possible for everyone.

But then maybe everyone but me already knew this. lol
*****************

Above from...
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/fish/155362-maintaining-quarantine-tank-long-term.html


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## touch of sky (Nov 1, 2011)

Wkndracer,
Very interesting and informative thread. Thank you for the hard work that went into it.


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## AccidentProne001 (Nov 19, 2011)

Are there any of the pharmaceutical or patent meds ( wormers, antibiotic, antiparasitic ) which would kill the plants ?


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

AccidentProne001 said:


> Are there any of the pharmaceutical or patent meds ( wormers, antibiotic, antiparasitic ) which would kill the plants ?


Yes many do is why I listed those known to be safe and ask members knowing of others that are safe to include them in a post to this thread.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*Receiving fish*

OK most of us know this but some don't so I thought I'd add it to the QT thread. What to do with fish that have been shipped to you. 
More than one method out there and here's one of mine. 

Receiving fish shipped in Kordon breather bags the Kordon company tells you NOT to float the bags. (I'm good with that, their product so they make the rules) 
Standard plastic bags can be handled the same way.

Received today were 6 juvenile L144 ancistrus.
They were properly purged for 24hrs prior to shipping so the water wasn't too bad in the bags.

Materials/equipment list;
Receiving tank - 10g bare tank with cycled Mattenfilter and fresh water in the tank. Heater set 80°F tank temp. for these fish.
Container for acclimating and parameter matching (even a pitcher will do). I have a 'fish box' I use for transporting fish to the LFS.
Prime, air pump and air stone, measuring cup, timer (I need the timer LOL)


















This acclimation will involve between 1/2 to 3/4 gallons of water total so I first add 0.5ml of prime to my container which is enough for 5gal of water per Seachem instruction. Just drops of Prime are all that's required. Because Prime thickens the water I place an air stone in the container then start opening my shipping bags and pouring the water and fish in the container. As the O2 level rises in the water any ammonia in the shipping water is taken care of by the Prime dose so my fish are safe from ammonia burn. The actual water volume at the starting point when the bags are opened and dumped in the box is about 1qt. You can see the bubbles created in the 'thickened' water with Prime at this >5x dosage. It's steadily diluted as tank water is added.










Here's where the timer and measuring cup come in. 
My cup holds 8oz. filled and I start with 4-6oz. adding tank water every 5 minutes. 
After 20 minutes (The water in my delivered fish bags was pretty chilly) 
I add full 8oz. cups every 5 minutes until the water volume is doubled or slightly more in my container.










This is then drained off into the sink and I repeat the filling process again. 
Overkill maybe but the breeder/shipper has hard water and mine is very soft. 
Once this is completed the water is good to go but the temperature is still slightly off. 
I put the fish in a tank box like you see at the LFS and float that in the tank for 15-20 minutes.
Again drain off the majority of the water then release the fish into the tank with the lights off and only room lighting. 


















While they are starving after 24hrs of purge and three days in a box nobody gets fed here the first day. 
Tomorrow morning these guys will get a veggie wafer, fresh zucchini and a piece of driftwood added into the tank. 
After 3 days or a week they go into a planted quarantine tank for worming/parasite treatments and observation.
All things being good into they're own tank in a month. Hopefully a year from now they will be a breeding group of blue eyes.

this works for me :smile: hope it helps somebody


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*24hrs*

24hr update and 6/6

Just adding the day after.
Food,wood, cave and happy fish


























Today is day #1 on my quarantine count down roud:


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## Retrogamer82 (Oct 13, 2009)

Awesome thread man, this thread is as informative as it is persuasive. roud:


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## Jules (May 20, 2012)

@ Wkndracer,
Thanks for this extremely informative thread! I've always known I _ought_ to quarantine, but never really looked into how long I should do it or anything. 

This thread inspired me to finally get my act together: I got an order of wild caught fish in June, and followed the procedure outlined here (worming the fish is such an obviously good idea I can't believe it never occurred to me). As a result I spared my main tank from a case of ich, and probably a variety of internal parasites.


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## wkndracer (Mar 14, 2009)

*kind reply*

Hi Jules! I didn't see this post until today.
Thrilled to hear you think the information helped and congrats on taking the step forward to do a proper entry quarantine for the protection of your existing critters. 
Never gave a thought to things I couldn't see either until my luck ran out and tragedy struck. 

Thank you for the feedback and kind reply on the effort to share roud:


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## SpecGrrl (Jul 26, 2012)

wkndracer said:


> 24hr update and 6/6
> 
> Just adding the day after.
> Food,wood, cave and happy fish
> ...


Great post!

What are those awesome corkscrews skewering your veggies?!?


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## DKRST (Jan 20, 2011)

SpecGrrl said:


> Great post!
> What are those awesome corkscrews skewering your veggies?!?


Those are his "plecoware" food holders. Great item! I have two.


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## SpecGrrl (Jul 26, 2012)

DKRST said:


> Those are his "plecoware" food holders. Great item! I have two.


Hahahahaha! My snail would love those!


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## Tadpole (Oct 10, 2010)

*I know it has been over a year and a half...*



wkndracer said:


> Comes up a bunch with folks wondering what to do. I was no different starting out.


I know it's been a while since this thread was made or used last, but I found it really helpful. I searched through some other threads, but they weren't this one. I felt it was worth the bump to preserve that info for other guys like me, who have been coasting along and suddenly this matters. This is one of the reasons I believe this forum is an invaluable resource to the hobby, even for scrubs like me who don't have a _ton_ of experience or post much, and I just want to say thanks.


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## DKRST (Jan 20, 2011)

Tadpole said:


> I know it's been a while since this thread was made or used last, but I found it really helpful. I searched through some other threads, but they weren't this one. I felt it was worth the bump to preserve that info for other guys like me, who have been coasting along and suddenly this matters. This is one of the reasons I believe this forum is an invaluable resource to the hobby, even for scrubs like me who don't have a _ton_ of experience or post much, and I just want to say thanks.


Haven't used this thread or been on TPT in a while either, but it's my all-time favorite QT tank thread. Good info and deserves an occasional "bump" to the top every year and a half :laugh2:


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