# shalu's 100 gallon tank-updated 04-17-2005*bandwidth warning*



## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

I have 13 discus in my 100g planted tank. There are some odd bunches of bunch plants on the right side because I just bought some new plants, still growing them out










This is the only wild discus and only adult. He is The BOSS.









Pure snow flakes. This one is as white as it gets. The picture clearly shows that GE9325 tube produces pink light. Sorry about the spot algae, need to keep up with PO4 dosing 









My favorite, golden leopard snakeskin. It is starting to show some spots.









blue diamond









red spotted green. More stripes than spots . I don't like its shape, did not know how to pick a discus at that time.









Golden sunrise. My second biggest fish, its a pig.









red melon. Might be a runt because it eats normally but grows much slower than the rest.









turq. A $5 purchase when it was tiny.









OK, some of the other fish I have.
A few rummy nose. An impressionist photo :icon_bigg 









cardinals. brilliant color.









spawning blue rams.









bolivian ram pair









bolivian ram baby, as big as its parents.









angelfish. I only have one in the tank but it spawns regularly anyway :tongue: 









bosemanni rainbow









conglo tetra. its a male.









THE CULPRIT. This bristlenose pleco damaged my plexiglass tank surface. You can see my pictures seem out of focus somewhat, because the tank surface is blurred. You can see it is working hard here. Need to get rid of it soon if I can catch it. 









Just to prove that I used to take clearer pictures of the tank. Here is the glosso lawn I USED TO have. The glosso became too unmanageable and I got rid of it. Now I want to try it again but limit it to smaller area.


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## Inzeos (Sep 10, 2004)

Beautiful discus you have there. Really enjoy his colorful patterns. Most discus I run across I just think look odd, but he looks or she who knows, very nice!


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## Edouard (Apr 30, 2004)

VERY beutifull discus indeed!
You seem to grow plants nicely too! The R. Macrandra in the back keeps its red colour.
Could you post a pic of the entire tank?

Congratulations again roud:


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Beatiful discus you have there - great looking striations, nice round forehead, good symmetry and coloration. Is it a Tefe green?


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## Kimbo (Oct 30, 2004)

wow that discus looks awesome!!


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## Momotaro (Feb 21, 2003)

Beautiful Discus..that Angel is no slouch either!

I gotta hand it to you Discus people, you really have some beautiful fish!

Mike


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## pphx459 (Jun 25, 2004)

:drool: Post a pic of your whole tank!


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

thanks for the kind words. ok, added more pics :icon_bigg


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

wow very nice, love the discus! How many do you have in the tank and whats your water parms? and is your tank made of Plexi-glass?


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## sn8k (May 24, 2004)

Yes - very nice tank - quite excellent in fact roud: 

The golden leopard snakeskin & golden sunrise discus have expectional shape and just look awesome in there. All in all, it's a very happy tank indeed  .

Thanks for the pics - they made my day :icon_bigg


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Nice rundown of the collection. roud: 

Some comments:
Awesome looking bosemani (that guys has some heft on him; one of the largest that I've seen) and congo tetra...any reason why there's only one of each?

Love the look of that blue diamond (very partial to them, since it was one of the first varieties that I kept).

Red spotted green: nice coloration and patterns. Too bad the shape is a bit off as you have stated. Same applies for the turquoise, although at $5, that's a steal.

Thanks for sharing; good to see what each one looks like in a planted tank (makes it easier to decide what to pick up). :tongue:


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Thx for the compliments.

pufferfreak, yes, it is a plexiglass tank, so the pleco really did some damage. temp 83F, ph 6.6, kh=4, tds=290, CO2 with pinpoint controller. 3x60% per week water change(more than most people are willing to do, but hey, discus are messy :tongue: ) to remove excessive NO3. Dose TMG/PlantexCMS+B/Iron10%/PO4/K.

Eric, I am a collector by nature, so I have a lot of species in the tank both in terms of plants and fish :tongue: . I would love to have more bosemani and congo tetra but as it is, the tank is grossly overstocked with 13 discus and 80 other fish. :icon_roll Some of the fish suffered a bit(somewhat stunted now) while in Bare Bottom tank, I thought that was the best way to grow out discus. Well, bare bottom tank does not automatically solve all the problems. It has been more trouble free since I moved them to the planted tank.


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

Did you make the tank yourself? I bet it cost alot to make that tank since the plexiglass would have to be very thick right? Do you think its stronger then glass or Acrylic? thanks


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

pufferfreak, I thought plexiglass=acrylic? Anyway, it is a off-the-shelf Truvu tank.


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

hmm idk. I just know theres Acrylic and Glass. I thought they were two differnt things but i'm most likely wrong. lol Sorry about that. I didnt know placos caused problems to acrylic tanks!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Plexi is synonymous w/acrylic.


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

opps, my bad, sorry guys! I love the tank though, looks so great, love the White Discus! ITS so Beautiful!


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Enough fish for the time being. let's talk a bit about plants.
There are a lot of confusion about rotala indica/rotundifolia. I've got two distinct cultivars in this picture, not sure of their proper species:









Rotala magenta has eluded me for some time. The bunch from 8 months ago was down to the last black, leafless stem. At least it is sprouting new growth now, there is still hope:








I bought another bunch of magenta in my recent plant purchase, and it looks like this!








This looks almost exactly like emersed rotala macrandra. Maybe I should not be surprised because magenta is considered a "mutant" of macrandra anyway, it might reverse back. I am anxious to see how this bunch turns out.

Ammania bonsai is quite rare in the US. It is a cute drawf plant. I suspect I got the emersed stems:








One stem is producing orange new leaves, like its cousin A. gracilis. Can't wait to see how this one turns out too.

Ludwigia ovalis, it is interesting that this leaf color is not due to nutrient difficiency(low N/P):









red cabomba, wow, can't believe I waited this long to get this plant.









M. umbrosum, it is not very common in the US and its name is often confused with M. micranthemoides. Its leaves are more round and growth is more upward.









Ludwigia 'pantanal'. I can't believe they sent me a few puny little stems 2-3 inches long, the stems are thinner than rotala wallichii. well, time to practice the macro mode of the camera:









I ordered Nesaea sp, not realizing it is the "Red leaved" variety.









oh yeah, my goal is to jam as many species(especially the red/orange plants) as possible into the tank while trying to make it look not too crapy, so normal rules of aquascaping do not apply here :icon_bigg


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

ok, one more discus,  








Scorpion snakeskin. I quite like its shape.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

That scorpion snakeskin looks great! 

You're correct that's R. macranda that you have there. Also, where did you get that Nesaea sp. red from? I've been looking for this stuff for awhile now, but haven't seen anything that colorful in awhile (mine got nuked awhile back due to some negligence :icon_frow ). Same applies for that red cabomba.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Eric, this whole plant order came from aquariumlandscapes.net. Their shipping/handling is rediculous, but they do have some uncommon plants. If I can grow enough plants, I will take some to future plant swap meetings, never been to one before.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Sounds good. For some reason I love the look of Nesaea sp. red. You weren't kidding when you were talking about prices, but they do have some very nice stuff (if it holds up to those pictures). Great collection of crypts...


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## teddo10 (Nov 9, 2004)

Sorry to butt in like this, but isn't 100 gall a little small for 13 discus. I've always learned 50 lit (13 gallon) for one adult discus? Unless you have a super filtrationsystem?

Ed


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

There is no hard rules, just rough guidelines. All depends on filtration, feeding, and most importantly, water change. Some breeders get away with much higher fish density by doing far more water changes.


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## rayhwong (Aug 6, 2004)

Hi Shalu,
Do you take into consideration open space for your discus to swim in when you plant your tank? My plants are growing to fast and they crowd out the room to swim. The discus seem more stressed when this happens.
-Ray


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## GulfCoastAquarian (Jul 30, 2002)

shalu said:


> There is no hard rules, just rough guidelines.  All depends on filtration, feeding, and most importantly, water change. Some breeders get away with much higher fish density by doing far more water changes.


 So just what is your water change regimen? Since you mentioned it!
That looks like a gorgeous tank!


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Ray, I try to keep the plants shorter to get more open space. Sometimes I let it go a bit too long, though  . Now I love those "meaty" stem plants that is slower in gaining height, like Limnophila aromaticoides, Eusteralis stellata. But they have short internode and lots of leaves, so the rate of gaining biomass is still high. Still weekly trimming is almost mandatory, but not too bad. I made trimming much easier by using plant weights instead of planting stems. It saves a lot of time for me. I am glad Tom Barr figured out that one can rely completely on water column nutrient dosing. Plants like hornwort can grow 20 inches in a week in my tank, and they are out of there.

Sam, more than 99% people on this board : 3x60% per week. but less than some discus fanatics :icon_bigg And I don't store the water before hand, just use lukewarm tap water, Python and water conditioner.


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## rayhwong (Aug 6, 2004)

Which water conditioner do you use Shalu? Do you add enough to treat 100g water? I was always concerned about how fast can it get the chloramine out.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Ray, I use the Tap Water Conditioner(super strength) by Aquarium Pharmaceutical. At one drop per gallon of new water. One gallon conditioner will last me years. I am not concerned about any ammonia released from chloramine unbounding. My wet/dry filter can handle that without any problem. I am not seeing any fish stress after each water change.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

I have to admit the GE9325K bulb is growing on me. I have never seen my lotus leaves this red before,









Here are couple of slightly better pics of fish,
the blue diamond









the $5 turq,


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## greentetra (Nov 14, 2004)

I have 3 male rams
Where did you find a female
My LFS told me they dont get many becuase the fish farms keep them
Great Looking grass stuff. What is it :icon_bigg


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

greentetra, some of LFS do have the females. I also got some from a local breeder. The "grass" is hygrophila difformis, water wisteria, a very common plant. It grows horizontally under bright light, making an easy foreground.


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## aquakev (Nov 5, 2004)

Shalu, Got some questions for you since I am about to introduce discus to my tank.1) What is feeding like, I saw the worm cone but are you just feeding 1/day? 2) How do the plants handle the higher temp(what do you have it at)? 3) In one of the pics I sow Glosso. but then not in any others, did you have problems with it or just didnt like it?

Thanks,

Kev


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Hi Kev, 
1) I use two feeding cones to feed frozen blood worms, which is the only food I use right now. I feed quite heavily, use about 3-4 ounces of frozen bw each day. I fill the cones before going to work in the morning, then do the same twice in the evening, so three feedings. Frequent water change is therefore necessary. I do at least 3x60% water change per week, dose back plant nutrients after wc. One feeding would be ok for adults, but mine are still not fully grown.
2) most of the info about plants not doing well in high temp is not true. I grow any plant I want to try and none failed due to high temp(I set it at 83F). I have tried at least 50 species. There are only a few I have not completely mastered, but I am sure it had nothing to do with high temp. But at high temp, plants are less forgiving about lack of nutrients or CO2, so have to make sure you supply ample amount of those.
3) yes, I had a beautiful glosso lawn once, but glosso is very fast growing and aggressive and piles on top of itself soon. My arm can barely reach the bottom of the tank so it became very hard to manage/prune. So I got rid of it. Now I want to grow it again, but only in a small area.


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

I thought it was the other way around with H. Difformis. With lower light it grows horizontally and with bright light it grows vertical.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

pufferfreak, you got it backwards, I've got it growing in both conditions.


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

so under bright light it grows sideways? WTF


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

yes, or when shaded by other plants, it grows upwards.


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## pufferfreak (Oct 19, 2003)

not cool, no wonder my wisteria wasnt growing up, dangit lol


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Time to post pics of some of my less favorite discus. This one is a LFS runt, never grew a bit after I bought it. Its body is badly deformed if you look at it headon. My wife has asked me more than once what I was thinking when I bought this fish :icon_redf . It has colored up though, and has spawned repeatedly, acting as if it were the queen of the tank.









The runt paired up with the GoldenSunrise, here they are at it again, 

























Of course, the eggs have no chance of hatching in such a community tank.

This is an expensive leopard snakeskin, unfortunately, it ate too much and developed constipation(intestinal blockage) long time ago. This problem is quite common among discus. I treated it for months in epsom salt without much success, so I gave up and put it back. It still eats and poops a bit daily, but its stomach is always like a little balloon. I have another fish with the exact same problem. As a result, they are now severely stunted, as evident in the big eyes.









I just can't have enough of this fish, my favorite









I have a passion for stem plants, and have been collecting a lot of them so far. I am slowly incorporating the newly aquired ones into my hodgepodge aquascape









For a long time, I have had trouble growing a few rotala species, r. macrandra, r. magenta, r. wallichii. They would grow a little, then develop stunted leaves and the shoot tip dies. Then they try to send out side shoots and repeat the cycle. My GH =8, and both water report and my own measurement shows there is no lack of Calcium. However, I also observed calcium deficiency symptoms in some other plants: Ammania gracilis grows distorted new leaves. New leaves on L. 'Cuba' is slightly distorted sometimes. New leaves of A. reineckii are twisted and cupped downward. H. zosterifolia new leaves are whitish. I have read the debates about too much k interfering with calcium uptake and I am only dosing K moderately. I finally convinced myself that it can still be calcium deficiency afterall, so I started dosing CaCO3. Calcium carbonate does not dissolve in water quickly and clouds the water for a while after each dosage. I happen to like this effect and I think my tank looks like a foggy morning in golden gate park in San Franciso  









I started slow and gradually increased dosage of CaCO3 after each water change. I see a marked improvement in r. macrandra. For the first time in two years, I am getting those big, fluffy, bright red leaves :icon_bigg ,









the r. magenta is also showing some signs of new life. Still not much improvement in wallichii yet. The L. 'Cuba' leaves are no longer twisted/bent. New growth on stargrass is green, not whitish anymore. I am going to further increase dosage of CaCO3 and see what happens. So far the lesson seems to be:if it looks like calcium deficiency, it probably is; If hard water(gh=8) does not work, try making it harder. I think Tom Barr is right once again: he believes many so called "soft water plants" actually do better in harder water.


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

shalu - I've had similar experiences with many so-called soft-water plants (well, except for L. pantanal, but I still don't want to talk about that :icon_redf). I keep Afrcian cichlids in my planted tank - no, actually I keep plants in my African cichlid tank - and my KH and GH are 14 and 16 respectively with a CO2 moderated pH of 7.2. I currently have flourishing specimens of Didiplis diandra, Heteranthera zosterifolia, Ammania sp. 'Bonsai', and Cabomba furcata. Like you, I keep the CO2 constant at 25-30 ppm, and dose water column ferts regularly. 25% of my substrate is Caribsea's CaCO3 buffered Cichlid Sand which I originally introduced for the Africans but also serves quite nicely to supplement Ca. A few plants will not tolerate the CaCO3 in the substrate, which can damage some roots, but most have no problem with it. Like you, I don't feel that hard water is as big a concern for most plants as people have been led to believe. Here's a quote from Chuck Gadd that a friend sent me. Chuck is describing a presentation given by Claus Christensen of Tropica at the AGA Conference two years ago:

From Chuck Gadd's APD Post:


> Claus took the entire Tropica crew (50 people!) down to South America. After seeing the crypts of asia, we figured were going to see some South American soft water plants. Well, we did see lots of South American plants. But the water was ANYTHING but soft. The area they went to was in Brazil. I'll need to ask someone who was taking better notes the exact name of the area, but the water was originating on top of a plateau, where it then filters down thru calcium-carbonate rich rock, and emerges in springs which feed into rivers and a huge swamp type area. Instead of tea-tinted soft water, this was crystal-clear water, with a KH of about 18 degres, and a GH at least that high. Most of the substrate was PURE calcium carbonate. A bright white bottom. The plant growth was unbelievable. The plants were all the usual South-American plants. The ones that we are often told are "soft water" plants. Claus made the point that those plants that are typically considered "soft water" plants are simply those that do a reasonable job of surviving and growing in very soft water. These same plants, in rich hard water, grow MUCH better. There were massive swords, huge fields of stargrass, a few species of Ambulia, basically anything that could grow in South America was found there in the very hard water. Claus showed a slide with some water sample analysis numbers, and even though the plants were growing wonderfully without any signs of deficiency, there was ZERO measurable iron in the water. And since the substrate was calcium carbonate, it seems unlikely that the plants are getting any iron from there.


Your point about Ca does not fall on deaf ears. If I can grow it my tank, then I can guarantee that it does not require soft water :wink: 

I love the fish btw. And the San Fran fog look is a great way to describe that picture. It really does resemble heavy fog. I'll have to tell that to people when the iron supplementation is precipitating out of solution in my tank roud: 

Thanks for the great post and pics!


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Interesting read there travis...now if only the Tonina fluviatilis would get that through it's thick membranes. :icon_frow 

Nice pictures of the discus as usual, especially of that wild green. It has some of the nicest colors that I've seen on a wild fish. 

Have dealt w/both stunting and constipation of discus in the past. I lost my cobalt due to constipation awhile back, which was my favorite fish at the time. The runt of my pack happened to be a brilliant green, which was the last discus that I added to the tank. That was a long time ago however, and after seeing pics of discus in both shalu's and ray's tank, gives me the itch...


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## rayhwong (Aug 6, 2004)

Interesting note about the CaCO3. I notice my plants do significantly better when I dose more of it. They look more robust and fuller. I know that might just mean more CO2 for plants when using a pH controller, but i noticed the same result in tanks w/o one and just using DIY co2. I see the result from a 2-3KH bumped to 4-5KH. Ive added CaCO3 coral sand to my filter now.


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## rayhwong (Aug 6, 2004)

Shalu you have some gorgeous discus. I love the green colored wild one. I wish my discus had as nice body shape as yours. I dont have any orange,red, or golden colored discus. Now I want some..hehe. 
Did you notice more black spotting on your discus in high light? Ive bought some pigeon bloods with no spotting but under high light they developed significantly more spots. Do you think stress also brings out more spots?
Do you find that the non blue-green discus cause color imbalance against the greens of the plants?

Do you think white faced marlboro reds will look good in a planted tank?


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

It's normal that your pigeon bloods are developing the spotting. Most pigeon bloods start out w/no black coloration/spotting, until they get a little larger.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Travis, Ray, I am glad I am not totally nuts trying to add CaCO3 to GH8 water :icon_bigg .

About peppering, what Eric said is true in many cases. For example, my Golden LSS is 100% clean at 2", I am seeing some faint peppering at 4", but not bad at all. Another important factor is background color, including substrate color. Darker background color makes discus go dark. I guess it is a natural instinct trying to blend into the environment to avoid predators. For example, my GoldenSunrise looked quite clean in the store, where the tank background is very light color(the owner told me that helps make the discus color clean). I also picked the cleanest fish out of the bunch. Once it was in my tank, where I have a black background, it has much darker peppering immediately. There are also reports that the black color of ecocomplete make discus darker.

Ray, I don't think the bright light brings out the peppering in discus. In fact, I have read a detailed article by an asian breeder about how he uses bright light 24/7 to eliminate stress bar/peppering in the fish. I agree that brightly colored discus might not look harmonious in an all green tank. That's why I am trying to grow a lot of colorful stem plants: r. macrandra, limnophila aromaticoides, eusteralis stellata, ammania gracilis, .... I think the red/orange plants complements the brightly colored discus well. Of course, still need lots of green plants to balance things out. I tend to go overboard with red plants :tongue:


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## rayhwong (Aug 6, 2004)

The background color's effect on peppering explains alot! All my backgrounds are black!
Yes I noticed that your colorful discus are harmonious wiht your plant selection. I think I will give a few a try!
Thanks for the info.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

A few new pics.

Whole tank. 









left side









Rotala vietnam









Ammania gracilis


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## e.lark (Feb 2, 2005)

Amazing tank. the fish, the aquascape, everything. I bet it is a treat to be infront of.


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## Blade (Jul 27, 2004)

Yah, its alright I guess, if you go for that whole completely amazing look.


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## sawallace (Jan 24, 2005)

:drool: Simply AMAZING!


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## GTApuffgal (Feb 7, 2005)

*Shalu's amazing tank*



sawallace said:


> :drool: Simply AMAZING!


Please, someday when I grow up - please provide me with the cajones to try Discus. And a tank that gorgeous to show them off...

Kathy


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## rayhwong (Aug 6, 2004)

wow looks great! looks like your discus grew alot since the last picture!
what is that fuzzy looking green stem plant about a third from the left side?


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks for the nice words, guys/gals. Actually aquascaping is low on my priority list. My main interest is collecting red/rare stem plants  As long as the aquascape does not look like total [email protected] while I stuff 60-70 plant species in the tank, I can't complain.

Ray, there are many green plants in that area, my guess is you are asking about myriophyllum matogrossense 'green', one of my favorite green plants. Yeah, it is a "fuzzy" looking plant thanks to the great job the plecos did on my glass, you know what I mean :wink:. Guess the discus did grow a bit, they better do considering how much I spent on frozen food  Still, I am afraid most of them are somewhat stunted due to my failed attempt initially in the bare bottom tank.


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## Ibn (Nov 19, 2003)

Tank looks beautiful. roud: 

That kind of explains the way those pictures look. Those discus and your collection has definitely grown. Interesting how Ray is mentioning about that plant (if it's indeed M. matogrossense green), since I pulled a chunk of it out with the latest replant.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Those discus sure do put the final touches on that plant collection ! I think you have more varieties in that tank then there is in the Kasselman book and it is working roud: 

Its tough to pass up on a new plant to try aint it ? Lookin great Shalu. Hey one last thing, you got a link to a bigger photo of the full view pic ?


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Buck said:


> I think you have more varieties in that tank then there is in the Kasselman book


you crack me up :icon_bigg nahh, I am only at 60ish, already reduced from 70. Her book has hundreds. We will see when I eventually get my 400gallon tank :icon_bigg 



Buck said:


> Hey one last thing, you got a link to a bigger photo of the full view pic ?


The full size pic is on home computer, will get you a link later. But you are not going to see too much more detail, because my tank glass is all fogged up by plecos :icon_frow


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## unirdna (Jan 22, 2004)

shalu said:


> ...you are not going to see too much more detail, because my tank glass is all fogged up by plecos :icon_frow



:icon_eek: 

You have plecos in that tank, too? [in voice of James Kirk] What's your secret, Man?!

Downright stunning tank. I swear that turquoise in the upper right needs batteries.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

unirdna said:


> You have plecos in that tank, too?


yeah, but not the common pleco. I have smaller ones: bristlenose, rubbermouth, candy stripe and clown. They like frozen food better than plants. But the bristlenose and rubbermouth work too hard on the plexi glass, and fogged it up seriously.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Some more pics, taken a while back.

r. wallichii and pogostemon stellatus 'bread leaf'.









I like the green and red contrast:









Made a taiwan moss wall to cover the prefilter skimmer box. Used Home Depot screen mesh and plastic suction cups. I am considering covering the whole tank wall with mosses









Limnophila aromatica, I am not sure if I have the regular, or the "red" variety









My Goldensurise and the Snowflakes discus decided to spawn on the FRONT glass regularly now, they used to do it on the side glass. Well, the wild green discus decided to force himself upon the eggs, making it a three-some. It is the strongest, what can the other two discus do :wink: 









The wild discus is also very protective of the breeding site, much more so than the other two. It attacked my hand fiercely when I put my hand into the water. The picture looks as if it was kissing my finger. I can assure you it was not, it BIT my finger! ok, it did not hurt much, I kind of enjoyed it :icon_bigg


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## PeteyPob (Apr 26, 2004)

Wow Shalu your tank looks great! Congrats on the pairs, I have one pair and they are producing some beautiful fry. Im not to smart with scientific names yet but I take it that CACO3 is the magnesium? I have been adding it recently at 1 tsp, with your advice and increased my K2SO4 to 1 tsp and half also. I was wondering if these two things played a big role in helping you Macrandra grow to look that nice? As we have discussed in a previous thread I am having a little problems with the leaves turning clear. It certainly doesnt look as full as yours does either.
Also your glosso lawn looked very uniform in that it was very level. I am not a pro with the glosso and have been letting it go wild so it could fill in the area I wanted. In prunig your did you take the over lapping strands and replant them? I have some strands also that grow vertical, not alot, a few strands here and there. Did you just cut them and replant those? Kinda of like cutting a lawn...
I just got my pH controller in and keep my pH at 6.5 and am currently dosing Excel to help my BBA problem.
-Pete


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Pete, CaCO3 is calcium carbonate, which raises both GH and KH. I THOUGHT my macrandra was doing better BECAUSE of it, but now I doubt it. It could be that the macrandra was just ADAPTING to my tank condition very slowly. Now I have stopped Ca(calcium) addition, and the macrandra does not care at all. After I got my Lamotte kits, I am pretty much convinced I don't need Mg(magnesium) either. Maybe I was imagining things when I thought epsom salt was helping, LOL. As far as the color of my macrandra, it has always been good once it got going. Nutrient/trace levels affect it somewhat, but not dramatically. K did not affect color, but deficiency caused some holes in the leaves. I think high PO4 did make it redder and the leaves fuller, read it somewhere. Probably true.

You have a pair with fries in the planted tank? wow, how do you do that? roud: and you said your water is VERY hard. I imagine no eggs can hatch in that? I have no interest in breeding them, but enjoy watching them doing it. Eggs got eaten the second day.

Well, I now hate glosso, too messy to maintain. I can only get it looking good for couple of months, tops. It is all downhill from there. They just pile up higher and higher, and if I mow it lower, it just does not look attractive. I have a nice marselia lawn now covering 1/3 of the foreground. Planning to rip out the rest of the glosso and replace it with marselia. Almost no maintainance with marselia, it remains very low with good light. Ripping out marselia runners is easier, the whole patch does not float up like glosso tend to do if you are not careful.


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## PeteyPob (Apr 26, 2004)

Ill try my best with the glosso, my cherries really love it. So basically daily maintaince on the glosso should help?
As far as my breeders, their eggs were food for the angel as soon as they laid them in the planted tank. I have 5-30gals in my garage full of many other strains of discus. 3 of the tank currently have pairs and are with 75% RO and 25% tap. I didnt want to mess around with the whole trace elements and RO Right too much so I let the tap its place. The only thing I add is DiscusTrace and Seachem Prime. The eggs hatches very well with few nonhatchers.


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## igotworms (Dec 1, 2004)

That tank is amasing!! i wish i could have a planted tank that big.


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

I have to agree with you on Glosso. I think I gave you some bad advice when I suggested trimming/giving it a haircut a while back. Well that worked for me about once and then it just got scraggly and started looking horrible. Like you I have now given up on growing Glosso. Like you said, too messy, too much maintenance. I'm looking for another ground cover that will require less work. I'm giving Elatine triandra a shot.

Your tank and fish are looking amazing man  Not many people can manage to keep all of the beautiful plants that you do in a Discus tank. Are you running higher temps (~84-86F) for the Discus and, if so, how does it affect your plants.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Travis, thx for the compliments. You have an awesome cichlid tank. I don't blame you for your advice at all, it is a lost cause in the long run with glosso maintanance anyway 

I do have Elatine triandra in my tank. Similar issues. It gets piled up higher and higher until you yank the whole thing out  Also had baby tears as foreground, no better.

I love marselia as foreground now, it currenly covers 1/3 of my foreground. Attractive deep green, almost no maintanance. You might want to give it a try.

I keep temp at 82-83F, higher in summer. No issues with plants, it is a myth that many plants don't like high temperature(there might be only a FEW). Similar to your findings that most plants don't mind harder water.


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## travis (Nov 17, 2004)

shalu said:


> I keep temp at 82-83F, higher in summer. No issues with plants, it is a myth that many plants don't like high temperature(there might be only a FEW). Similar to your findings that most plants don't mind harder water.


That's good to know. My tank has a tendency to get above 80F regularly in the summer and I can't afford to run my A/C at 62F to keep them down or buy a chiller so I'll take your advice and let the temps go up. My Africans love 80+ water anyway 

And I've managed to get my Rotala macrandra growing fairly well at 12-14 KH now. I've got about a 50% mortality rate when I introduce new R. macrandra plants, but those that survive seem to do well. Can't figure it out.

I've kept Marsilea before and it does well in hard water. I'll have to look into getting some more. I've got several square feet to cover since I got rid of the Glosso, but I am soooo glad it's gone


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## bharada (Mar 5, 2004)

Sha,
You know that you're going to have to volunteer to host an open house soon!  Or are you afraid the rest of us will discover all your secrets? :icon_lol:


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

bharada said:


> Sha,
> You know that you're going to have to volunteer to host an open house soon!  Or are you afraid the rest of us will discover all your secrets? :icon_lol:


hahaha, I want to get the tank in "tiptop" shape before I host an open house. Don't feel I am there yet, give me couple more months :icon_bigg


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Shalu - Your tank is just awesome. But tonight I noticed something for the first time - silly me. Your avatar is your favorite discus. Too cool! I wish I had the guts to take discus on in a planted tank. To be doing both well at the same time seems to represent a fairly rare accomplishment. roud: 

Great stuff pal. I'm jealous, but only in the most complimentary of ways!


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks, Scolley! Actually I used to have a different discus in my avatar, this one is changed fairly recently. You can do something special with your new 75gallon :wink:


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## g8wayg8r (Dec 24, 2003)

Your didiplis diandra looks great. I had some trouble with the bottom half of the stems turning black and the tops would drift away. Lovely plant when it grows well.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

g8wayg8r said:


> Your didiplis diandra looks great. I had some trouble with the bottom half of the stems turning black and the tops would drift away. Lovely plant when it grows well.


I only had it turning black and melt when I had a nutrient deficiency. Keep eye on K level, potassium deficiency might do just that.


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## Lorenceo (Jan 29, 2004)

How about some updates?


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## StUk_In_AfRiKa (Jan 30, 2005)

Update! Update! Update!


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## lousybreed (Mar 18, 2005)

great looking tank, I have just one concern: Did you say that you only feed frozen bloodworms? Won't this be detrimental in the long run just using one food type? I know that some people add peas to their homemade discus food for ruffage. Maybe your discus need some greens!

Anyways great looking tank!!!


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

they are like spoiled kids, you know, it is near impossible to convince them that other foods, especially greens are good for them :icon_bigg Plus other foods tend to make a mess in the tank.


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## Trebs (Jun 15, 2005)

Have you tried feeding live or frozen brine shrimp? these are good for the digestion of the discus and shouldn't pollute the tank too much.


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## Fish_Guy (Jul 23, 2005)

Hello im just wondering where you get those discus fish because i want to get some for my tank.They are beautiful and i cant resist not to buy them..Plz tell me i can order either on a website or dealer...I live in florida so i dont know if that will cause any troubles....


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Some of my discus came from greatlakesdiscus.com and some from sunrisetropicals.com(which is local to me).


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## Sweet Violet (Aug 10, 2005)

This tank is absolutely beautiful~ !! Actually all of your tanks are wonderful~ !! roud:


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks Sweet Violet.

I gave away couple of runted discus recently. Plan to sell off couple that are not round enough in shape. I want to keep only the best ones in the show tank. I have also started to raise more small discus in my planted 55 gallon. I know I vowed that I won't raise any more juv. discus due to the excessive work, but I just couldn't resist the urge. There is something special about young discus: they are extremely active! unlike adult discus, which are slow and graceful.

My goldenrise is now 6.5"+, almost as big as the 7" wild discus. It is the fattest fish in the tank, to the point of obese, about 1" thick. It decided to pair off with the maturing 6" golden leopard, and spawned on my giant Hygro. corymbosa "compact":









another:









Otto is having gourmet dinner  









Bought a San Merah from a local hobbiest. I think its eyes are slightly big, so maybe behind a little on its growth. But it should catchup with lots of food. I like its high body:









As pure white as ever:








Too bad she stopped growing at 5"(but its eyes were big when I bought it). Still a keeper though. Notice the pink color in the right background? I hate GE9325K, while so many people rave about the bulb.


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Shalu that San Merah is a beauty... thats a great find roud:


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## Phil Edwards (Jul 18, 2003)

That's awesome Shalu! Thanks for updating us, I haven't seen your tank in quite a while. Those discus are fantastic . roud: 

Regards,
Phil


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## scolley (Apr 4, 2004)

Shalu - I don't know discus from shineola, but to my eye that blue one with the otto cat on it is stunning!

Gotta do discus someday... gotta do discus someday... Shalu is the inspiration, and gotta do discus someday... roud:


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Thanks, Steve. Yes, that fish has taken on its full adult coloration. Its shiny scale is stunning. Hard to imagine it was grown from a tiny $5 fish.


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## timr (Mar 23, 2005)

wow you actually updated something other than your shrimp tank!! Nice, beautiful Discus you've got Shalu. I'm envious and i will try them again one day, i think my main problem was buying them from the LFS. And i should have stuck with frozen food instead of live. 

how about a full tank shot?


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

timr said:


> how about a full tank shot?


My wife took my digital camera with her on a trip. Will shoot a few when she comes back :icon_bigg


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## turtlehead (May 31, 2005)

The pink is really nice shalu. So are the discus.


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## Georgiadawgger (Apr 23, 2004)

Nice shots!! One of these days I'm going to get a few of them...with no angels


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## ctmpwrdcamry (May 10, 2005)

Amazing tank. I think i am going to give it a shot with my new 75. I want to get the tank established before i add in the discus, so ill probably wait till spring. 

What type of wet/dry filter do you have? I am thinking about a small wet/dry and a canster, would that be a bad idea?


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## Saints1804 (Oct 27, 2005)

What specifically is the "glasso" plant you have at the bottom in the last picture. Im looking for something similiar or even exact to cover the bottom of an area of my tank. Thanks in advance.


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

ctmpwrdcamry said:


> What type of wet/dry filter do you have?


I have an Amiracle wet/dry, bought online.



Saints1804 said:


> What specifically is the "glasso" plant you have at the bottom in the last picture


Not sure which picture you were referring to. But I have couple of marsilea species in the foreground now that looks very much like glosso, except much lower maintanance.


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## ctmpwrdcamry (May 10, 2005)

Would you recommend the filter for keeping discus over a canester?


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## Betowess (Dec 9, 2004)

Yeah, I have never wandered upon this journal. Absolutely beautiful Discus and Rams etc. and love the variety of flora too! bob


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

ctmpwrdcamry said:


> Would you recommend the filter for keeping discus over a canester?


Either should work fine. I don't have first hand experience with a cannister, but I like wet/dry for these reasons:
a) hide the equipment in the sump
b) no need for additional aeration even with high bioload, during medication...
c) low maintanance relative to cannister.
d) I feel more comfortable with a powerful wet/dry as a BACKUP when anything goes wrong in my planted tank. Under normal circumstances, you don't need to worry much about biofiltration in a planted tank.

Drawbacks, neither is a big deal to me:
a) use a bit more CO2
b) can be slightly noisier


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## Saints1804 (Oct 27, 2005)

Im referring to the very last picture in your first orginial post. Where you stated that the Glasso Lawn got out of control but you wanna try it again. I want something similiar to that or that specifically. so any specifics as to scientific name and care would be much appreciated


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Speakin of photos... any full tank shots lately ? pretty please , always loved your tank shalu roud:


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## shalu (Jan 16, 2003)

Saints1804 said:


> Im referring to the very last picture in your first orginial post. Where you stated that the Glasso Lawn got out of control but you wanna try it again. I want something similiar to that or that specifically. so any specifics as to scientific name and care would be much appreciated


Glossostigma elatinoides is the full name of that plant. Eventually I gave up on it, it just grew way t0o fast to maintain long term. I went with couple of marsilea species, including marsilea minuta, a dwarf variety.



Buck said:


> Speakin of photos... any full tank shots lately ? pretty please , always loved your tank shalu roud:


Thanks, Buck. I introduced a new discus without quarantine and I had an outbreak of columnaris  . After Oxytetracyline treatment, the plants are showing a lot of deficiencies: white/pink/red new growth that is not normal color and the growth is stunted. They are still recovering, hopefully I can take some pics in a few weeks.


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## Wö£fëñxXx (Dec 2, 2003)

Sha.. you're Discus tank kick's ass.. roud:


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## Buck (Oct 13, 2002)

Oh man... thats a bummer.
But ya know... I think that showing the bad times as well as the good times sometimes helps us all realize that nothing in this hobby is easy and that we all have our "trends". Its a fine line we run between "beautiful" and "*Awww No*ooo... :icon_bigg 

Look forward to some photos soon...


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## zelmo (Oct 20, 2005)

shalu, what discus do you have in your tank currently?


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## Alight (Dec 10, 2005)

Shalu, always loved your tanks and posts at Simply Discus as well as here.

I'm wondering if you could give us an update on which red plants have worked out the best in your Discus tank?

Which are the hardiest, most rapidly growing. Which do you think are the most beautiful.

Which plants might work in a low tech, Discus tank, without CO2>

I hear you are off to China, so not expecting a response real soon.


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## Cheese Sandwich (Mar 20, 2006)

shalu said:


> Drawbacks, neither is a big deal to me:
> a) use a bit more CO2
> b) can be slightly noisier


c) Plumbing is more complex, a return pump is required, and flow rates need planned
d) Water level drop due to evaporation is manifested in the sump instead of the main tank - need to take this into account
e) Bad things will happen if the overflow gets clogged (or siphon gets lost, if you are using a siphon overflow system).


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## jastormont (Apr 18, 2005)

I think we need another update! 

I love your Discus!

I keep Discus and I can trully appricate yours. The colour combo's you have are quite hard to find if not impossible here in Australia.

Keep up the good work.

Also would love to see your filter setup.

Cheers...


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## mecgeorgeneo (Aug 12, 2005)

ur fish pics are beautiful. i'd love to keep some rams, angels, and discus but i probably cant. beautiful discus!


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## ccbeauch (Jul 29, 2012)

Any chance your tank is still up and running? Just read throught the whole thread trying to gain some knowledge on discus keeping.


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