# AquariumPlants Electronic CO2 Regulator?



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

I know this has come up a few times in the past, but I wanted to see if anyone was actually using one since it's been a few months since it was introduced to the market.

This is the product I"m talking about: http://www.aquariumplants.com/AquariumPlants_com_s_Electronic_Co2_Regulator_p/co2-2.htm

It's AP's fully electronic regulator where you can adjust the bubble rate electronically, so there's no needle valve required. There's also a solenoid with the setup.

And, please no "Go with XXXX brand regulator, it's so much better!" I've used quite a few different ones on the market, but I want to know specifically if anyone has used this one.


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

I have this regulator. I'll be setting it up next week. I wanted to set it up before now but had a few things come up so it took a back burner. It may be great or it may not be I'll know after a while.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Veloth said:


> I have this regulator. I'll be setting it up next week. I wanted to set it up before now but had a few things come up so it took a back burner. It may be great or it may not be I'll know after a while.


Awesome. I'd be interested in know the ease of setup of the bubble rates as well as how accurately it maintains the bubble count over time. 

Thanks!


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

I plan on writing a review on the regulator for another thread.


----------



## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Isn't we usually measure at a faster rate? bubbles per second? it seem like it's not really important to have an accurate reading when the rate is so slow, 10 seconds per bubble, who care if it's 9.5 or 10.5 second?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

epicfish said:


> Awesome. I'd be interested in know the ease of setup of the bubble rates as well as how accurately it maintains the bubble count over time.
> 
> Thanks!





khoile said:


> Isn't we usually measure at a faster rate? bubbles per second? it seem like it's not really important to have an accurate reading when the rate is so slow, 10 seconds per bubble, who care if it's 9.5 or 10.5 second?


It says that it's accurate DOWN to one bubble per second. I'm assuming they claim it's accurate is much higher rates also.

And I'm mostly interested in bubble rate drifts...problems I've had with past needle valves.


----------



## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

Please do let us know... It's look interesting enough, if it can do higher rate, I may buy it as well. I got a big tank so probably need 5 bps or more.

The most important feature?
Manufactured in America by American workers 

epicfish, they claimed:
"Count can NEVER vary more than 1/1000th of a second!"
I assume that if you set to 1 second it's 1+/-0.001 FOREVER! bold claim.

Also, anyone know what's the LCD screen is for? is it to for bps or in this case spb adjustment?


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

There is no LCD on the one I received two weeks ago. This must be a new model. When I looked at the link the picture doesn't show an LCD until you view the larger photo.


----------



## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

I think you should call them as ask about the LCD model. As I don't think the 1/1000th claim can be met without an LCD screen for you to select exactly what bubble rate you want. Let say I want 2.401 seconds per bubble (just because they claim 1/1000th second accuracy). I don't think there's enough accuracy in the dial knob to select precisely that, just imagine dividing the space between 2 and 3 by 1000, can your hand really be that accurate?


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

I'll give them a call tomorrow but from the way the photos look they replaced the led with a counter LCD. The control is still done with a knob.


----------



## Minsc (Jul 9, 2006)

That's not a bad price at all if it delivers.
Too bad there is no option for multiple outputs:icon_sad:


----------



## Guest (Sep 7, 2008)

Where is this LCD model? All I see is a LED to count the bubbles.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Click on the photo and it'll show you larger photos.


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

If you look a the enlarge picture you'll see two photos that show a faceplate that has a LCD
Epic beat me to it


----------



## Guest (Sep 7, 2008)

ahh I didnt even see it. yeah I was looking at this one before but wasnt to sure how it would or wouldnt work. I am getting ready to start a large tank soon and might give it a go.


----------



## Guest (Sep 7, 2008)

Veloth said:


> If you look a the enlarge picture you'll see two photos that show a faceplate that has a LCD
> Epic beat me to it


yeah it looks like they had 3 models. One with a lcd and led then one with a lcd and one with a led. I guess they werent sure which would work best and seems like the led might be there last choice per description.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

You know...looking at this, it says "Seconds Per Bubble".










Say you wanted to run at least 1 bps, you'd need to turn the knob from 0 to 0.1 seconds per bubble. Anything higher than 1 second per bubble converts to less than 1 bubble per second.


Or did they just word it wrong?


----------



## Guest (Sep 7, 2008)

yeah I think they worded it wrong cause that is not even on the other two models.


----------



## khoile (Jan 27, 2005)

I think they worded it right, just that they designed this to be used on smaller tank where slower co2 rate is desired. Still I maintained that at slower rate, the error is more relaxed and can be measure with just a stop watch, that is good enough to get within the accuracy that is needed in our application.

I'm just curious on how they do this and it seem to me it's just a simple timer, that control the solenoid (similar to an aqua controller if you program it to cycle on/off every x seconds). If this is the case I think reliability is an issue with higher bubble rate, since the solenoid is cycling at 6x a second (0.1 setting).

In the end I would just get a Milwaukee controller ($80.0) + a cheap solenoid regulator combo ($90 - $110) where you don't care much about accurate co2 rate as the controller will handle everything for you.

*Edit* 
The specs mentioned "no solenoid" so I guess it must be a electric rotary type, if that's the case, it's not that bad.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Even on a 10 gallon tank, I ran 1-2 bubbles per second. 1 bubble per 10 seconds? How small of a tank would that be on? 0.1 gallons?

I've seen a 5 gallon cube use 2 bubbles a second.


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

I just hooked the regulator and let the co2 bubble into a jug. I was getting 5 bubble per second half way between 1 and .01. At .01 one it was way too fast to count. I don't know other regulator work but on this one if I increased the working pressure the bubbles got larger. A increase from 10 to 20 to 30 to 40 psi resulted in the same amount of bubbles just larger.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

What if you put it to "5".

Does it take 5 seconds per bubble?


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

Yes, as close as I can tell.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

So I guess the design of the electronic controller leaves something to be desired for.

I don't know of anyone that runs it slower than 1 bubble per 3-4 seconds. And the range where I want fine control, 2bps-10bps, is set in such a narrow range of the controller that it would be very difficult to get the bubble count correct.

Sad.


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

When I tried to go lower that 5bps the control was very sensitive it wasn't bad up to that point. I agree it would have been better if the controls were reversed where multiple bps had the finer control. But once I get it setup I'll be better able to let you know how it works. Right now it on my kitchen counter top with the hose just sticking in a bottle and I didn't play with it very long.


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Veloth said:


> When I tried to go lower that 5bps the control was very sensitive it wasn't bad up to that point. I agree it would have been better if the controls were reversed where multiple bps had the finer control. But once I get it setup I'll be better able to let you know how it works. Right now it on my kitchen counter top with the hose just sticking in a bottle and I didn't play with it very long.


Sounds good.

Thanks for testing it out for us.

I might shoot them an email and see if they can reverse the controls in future editions...or something.


----------



## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

I have that regulator and so far it has been running a perfect one bubble every 3 seconds for two weeks. I love it. :bounce: Oh and FYI to anyone in Tacoma WAPacific gas on Center street refills Co2 tanks same day.:fish:
CO2.jpg.


----------



## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

The regulator knob needs to have a larger sweep to make it more controllable, easy to fix with a finer rheostat. :thumbsup:


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

die2win said:


> The regulator knob needs to have a larger sweep to make it more controllable, easy to fix with a finer rheostat. :thumbsup:


Meaning easier to control the bubble rates?


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

What company manufactures this electronic needle valve for AP.com?

What is the model number too?


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Left C said:


> What company manufactures this electronic needle valve for AP.com?
> 
> What is the model number too?


Looks like AP sourced the parts and stuck it in a plastic box themselves. Probably won't find an answer to your question unless someone is willing to dismantle their unit.


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

epicfish said:


> Looks like AP sourced the parts and stuck it in a plastic box themselves. Probably won't find an answer to your question unless someone is willing to dismantle their unit.


That's interesting because they have more than one version.


----------



## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

epicfish said:


> Meaning easier to control the bubble rates?



Yes:fish:


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

Left C there are no marking on the control or the regulator as far as I can see.


----------



## Left C (Nov 15, 2003)

Bummerstilskin!


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

I had thought about a finer rheostat but that will come at a later date I'm still playing with the original setup. Trying a bunch of different things before I write a review.
Mike


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

The regulator has been up and running for about a month. The only problems I encountered where from my own inexperience . The regulator was shipped quickly and well packaged. The first problem I encountered was that there were no setup instructions. This may be the case for all regulators but for someone that has never used one it would have been nice to have a general guideline. When I started to mount the unit to the CO2 tank is when I discovered that I needed a washer to go between the regulator and the valve on the tank. It seems to me someone, the regulator people or the tank people would have mentioned that. Once the washer was obtained the assembly was a snap. I powered the regulator up and set the working pressure at 15 psi (random number I picked because of no instructions) set the bubble count at 1bubble every two seconds and waited and watched. My drop checker quickly(2.5 hours) turned green and proceeded to turn yellow. I reduced the bubble count to 1 bubble every three seconds. My drop checker changed to greenish yellow. Most of the things I’ve read on the forums state somewhere around 3 bps as a good starting point so I called the manufacturer and asked about my setup, Mark(the person I spoke with) told me that the working pressure should be 6 to 8 psi. Mark was very professional and polite, he acted like I was his only customer he asked about my tank setup, the plants and fish in the tank. So after dropping the working pressure to the suggested psi I adjusted the bubble rate to 3bps, which put my drop checker into the yellow. My final adjustment ended up being 1bps for a good yellowish green. I continued to play with the regulator at different settings, it worked flawlessly, At a working pressure of 20 psi the regulator makes a funny buzzing sound when it cycles, probably close to over load. I put the regulator on a timer to come on an hour before my lights and I noticed that the first few bubbles are huge because when the timer turns off the unit the working pressure goes up to about 15 psi after the first few bubbles it back down to normal. So far I would recommend this unit to anyone. It’s a good solid unit. Will it die in six months? I have no clue but as of now it works great. I plan on getting another one for my other 55 gal as soon as I can convince my wife that she really needs it.lol If anyone has any questions I would be happy to try and answer them.
Mike


----------



## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

I have been using this set up about a month also and I have to say it really is easy to use. So far with a timer on it to come on two hours before the lights I am getting a very steady 30ppm of Co2 all day long :fish:


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Sounds good so far. How easy was it to dial in the bubble rate since the rheostat is designed a little funky? (The range you want to have the bubbles at is pretty small.)


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

Mine is set at 1bps, but when I was playing with it 6 bps was as fast as I could count. lol The adjustment is easy. To me, counting the light or counting the soft click is easier than counting bubbles. The unit will put out more that 6bps. Instead of increasing the bubble rate I would just adjust the bubble size. I tried it and it worked well the only problem with that is my reactor wouldn't disolve the larger bubbles. I in the process of making a different reactor.


----------



## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

I'm running at about 1 bubble a second in the 55g, to tune the BPS you have to have a light touch on the rheostat. It seems to be a good quality control as you can make some very fine changes in the bubble rate. 

From hit or miss experimenting,I wound up at the 6-8 psi on the secondary side. :fish:


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Adjustment if the working pressure is electronic? Or with a nut/screw?


----------



## Veloth (Jun 25, 2008)

Sorry for the confusion, the working pressure is set by a "T" handle with a locking nut on actual regulator. The electronic portion is a glorified needle valve with a built in bubble counter and solenoid. If I understand how normal regulators work, the CO2 flow is constant adjusted by the needle valve. With this setup the CO2 flow is allowed for how ever long the timer dictates then stops. Flow on, flow off
Mike


----------



## Guest (Oct 12, 2008)

Now my question is has any of the people who own this had a regular regulator to compare this to? Is it worth the price compared to others much cheaper.


----------



## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

I've used the standard regulators in the past. I think this set up is much easier to control or make adjustments. As for it being as rugged as a standard set up? Only time will tell. :fish:


----------



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

Progress reports?


----------



## Bugman (Jan 7, 2008)

AquariumPlants.com sent me two of these regulators to demo at the AGA convention this weekend. We sold them in the auction at the end of the convention yesterday. First I have to say many thanks to Mark (the owner) and his staff at AP.c, this was a very generous donation to AGA!! Mark, Randy and the rest of his staff have always treated me like their only customer as Veloth mentioned. I have had many orders with them and never been dissappointed. Enough of the commercial. They do have two models available. One with the led light and the second with the lcd display. These units are indeed built in house at AP.c. The regulator also comes with instructions that are easy to under stand and follow. In the box you receive the regulator fully assembled the power cord and the instructions. It is not different from attaching any other regulator. It does take some getting use to the seconds per bubble instead of bps. Threw me for a loop until I realized that is what it was. You have two adjustment knobs. One controls the SPB and the second is the working pressure which is designed to increase or decrease the bubble size. More working pressure and a bigger bubble. Lower the working pressure and you get a smaller bubble. We had the regulator running over the weekend until yesterday morning allowing everyone the opportunity to play with it. From what I could tell over just a couple of days it did appear to be very accurate. Everyone who played with it seemed to be quite impressed with it. Enough so that at the auction they both sold for almost full retail. I think the first went for around 175 and the second for around 160. I was hoping to get one on the cheap but it wasn't in the cards, lol. If you are really interested in one of these, give Mark or Randy a call (it is usually one of them that answers the phone). They will both be very happy to talk with you about them.


----------



## die2win (Aug 10, 2008)

epicfish said:


> Progress reports?


My set up has been running for nearly two and a half months without a glitch. I am very happy with its performance. I got rid of the in tank reactor and went with a DIY inline setup. :fish:


----------



## youareafever (Mar 18, 2008)

i also just gotten this new electronic reg. but yet have to set it up.


----------



## -Az- (Jan 2, 2013)

hi all
I've been keeping a close eye on this thread as i'd like to get one unless some ingenious person can come up with a diy build. unfortunately i'm no electronics expert.

I'm guessing measuring in seconds per bubble is easiest as it uses an electric timer.
you probably have more (or maybe coarser) control in regards to co2 delivery by adjusting bubble size.

talking about electronic valves rather than solenoids.
this might interest those of you with a skill in creating.

http://www.ra.danfoss.com/TechnicalInfo/Literature/Manuals/01/DKRCCPBVK1A102_520H4762 CCM DILA.pdf


----------

