# Erythromycin



## Wasserpest (Jun 12, 2003)

If you click "Search" and type Erythromycin you will find that this has been discussed a few or more times.

But here it comes again: Most EM tablets are 200mg. Instructions say to dose one of them for every 10 gal for 5 days.

This is the dosing for bacterial diseases. About 50% of all EM dosers think that to kill BGA you need only half dose.

That would be 100mg/10gal. In your case, that would be one tablet each day for 5 days. Or two per day if you want full dose.

I dosed full strength the first day (200mg/10gal) then half strength for four days.


----------



## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

Thanks for the answer. I will try and search harder next time.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

Search for:

maracyn bga

...and you'll find the most info. Maracyn is the brand name of erythromycin made for aquaria, and is what people more commonly refer to.


----------



## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

I actually searched for both. I kept running into maracyn but I had no idea how much EM they put into each tablet.

Also someone that talked to me said that maracyn is bascially EM that has expired for human use and is being used on animals as a less potent antibiotic. Since I am using new EM, I was wondering if I should further reduce the dosage since it is more potent that the normal fish treatments.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

:bounce: Come on folks, help the poster out.:thumbsup: 


Killing algae is fairly easy, either blackout or EM works(both take the same amount of time, one is free though). 
But it comes back again unless the poster changes *why it showed up in the first place.*

They need to add some KNO3 other wise they will keep having this issues pop up.

Clean the tank, clean the gravel if it's older than 1 year, clean the filters etc.

Do these two things and you'll never need EM or a black out again.
If you see any traces of BGA, simply do a large water change, clean, and add more KNO3.

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

I dose 1/8 tsp KNO3 everyday since starting up my tank. I add a full tsp on larger water changes. This is the same stuff from Boun's OH. I went for a few periods dosing much larger amounts but the algae seemed unchanged. I did the 3 day blackout method and it sprang back on me and lost a few plants in the proccess. 

I vacced the area and I even siphoned the top layer of substrate out of my tank. I sucked the stuff off leaves and removed all the moss in my tank. I got rid of all my dwarf lobeilia. I did daily water changes.

The tank is new. Only one month running with a new filter on it. This tank started off with a bunch of hygro, macranda, rotala indica and other stem plants. Every plant I introduce goes into my shrimp tank first and the only thing my shrimps don't touch is hair algae but that stuff was never present in my 50 gallon. 

I only used EM since I have been fighting this thing since start up. After I read your post on the SFBAAPS forum, I followed your advise and persisted to keep on sucking and cleaning the gravel but no way is it that dirty after only 1 month of being up and being understocked with an xp3 rated for a tank 3 times the size running on the 50 gallon tank. I used new turface that I washed 20 times over. 

I might have screwed something up during the blackout or didn't adequately vac and siphon it out but to be honest, it wasn't worth the trouble. I only went through it despite knowing I could get the meds for 5 dollars was because I respect your opinion that I do it the way you said.

I am not disputing whether your method works or not even, just that I failed to kill BGA while attempting it.


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

jimmydrsv said:


> I actually searched for both. I kept running into maracyn but I had no idea how much EM they put into each tablet.
> 
> Also someone that talked to me said that maracyn is bascially EM that has expired for human use and is being used on animals as a less potent antibiotic. Since I am using new EM, I was wondering if I should further reduce the dosage since it is more potent that the normal fish treatments.


Maracyn is 200mg erythromycin per tablet.

I was unable to find any reference to the "expired erythromycin" claim anywhere on this forum, the WWW, or Usenet. And I've never seen anyone altering their dose, or noting different results, based on where the erythromycin came from. So it's probably best to discount that advice, and proceed based on the stated content.

And remember to treat for the full five days, regardless of how quick the BGA seems to go away.


----------



## plantbrain (Dec 15, 2003)

Jimmy, you'll keep having it unless you address the cause. If the KNO3 is not addressing it, then something else is definitely very wrong. 

The tank is near new, 1 month old, so it's not the build up of dirt, you say you add 50ppm a week of NO3 from KNO3, how is the plant density?

And why would any plant at all suffer from a 3 day blackout?

I mean, if they die from that, you cannot even ship the plants anywhere(which would be in thwe dark during that time), so something has to be up you are defintiely missing.

Plant biomass is likely very low if the tank is 1 month old. Did you add enough plant biomass from day one? Did you add some mulm from another tank prior to set up to the filter/gravel?

I do not care how you kill BGA, what I do care about is solving the long term solution.

Everytime folks have had BGA for several years, a small amount etc, it can be traced to these two items : KNO3 or dirty filters/clogged filters, sour substrates etc.

If it were so prevalent with such treatment, folks would still have it, myself included.

BGA spores take anywhere from 20-60 days to recolonize most any substrate.
Like Fungi mold in your frige or bacteria....does not take long to reinfest.

You have something else going on and start phases are tough.
Plants should nebver suffer from a 3 day blackoput, Gloss will get leggy , but most all plants are totally fine if they were healthy to begin with.

So that's a sign something else is up besides KNO3 dosing. 

Regards, 
Tom Barr


----------



## DarkCobra (Jun 22, 2004)

I've had BGA only once. It was in a small, low-tech tank. Fish, a few real plants but mostly plastic, standard pea gravel, no ferts, no CO2, inadequate light. No desire to upgrade to anything fancier.

A full round of Maracyn and it never came back, even though I never fixed any of the tank's problems.

I've been wondering about Tom's BGA treatment since I heard someone else saying they were going to try it in another thread. Now that I've seen it, I can say it scares me.

It relies on mechanical removal and three days of darkness to remove every last cell of BGA. Which is pretty iffy in itself, BGA is more tenacious than that.

Plus, it blames bad water parameters for the reason BGA got a foothold in the first place. Now, while that makes sense, what is a three day blackout going to do but destabilize the tank even more? You're shutting down the plants completely for that time. And afterwards, even if the plants don't suffer visible damage, they are going to be in shock from such an unnatural event and will take some time to recover. That is also a window of opportunity for other algae to gain a foothold.

After searching a few threads and educating myself further on the method, I'm seeing some people have accelerated BGA growback after this treatment - exactly the kind of thing I would expect.

Tom is both very intelligent and good with plants, and I've slowly come to agree with a lot of what he says. But not all, some of his advice remains paradoxical to me.

He says his BGA treatment is simple, effective, and safe; yet in practice by other people, there are as many reports of failures, recurrances and side-effects on this forum, as reports of success.

In those cases, he replies that the person either didn't perform the treatment properly, or didn't address the underlying cause of the problem. If his advice was followed to the letter and to the best of the person's ability, then there is "something else going on". But I have never seen him suggest using a test kit to try and actually find out what, which would be the logical and productive approach when all else fails. I can only surmise he is reluctant to give such advice, as that appears to be against one of his core philosophies. If that is the case, it is an unfortunate choice - results are more important than philosophy.

And a treatment is not truly free, if it costs time, effort, plants, repeat treatments, and frustration.


----------



## jimmydrsv (Apr 8, 2005)

Most of my macranda grew holes in them during the black out. At the ends where there was growing mass, it turned white. It took a few days after the lights were back on for it to sprout new growth from nodes but at the new growth points the leaves fell off. I did however get a bunch of nutsy branching from it all over the nodes

I can't remember the name but a broad leaf plant melted after the blackout with only the stem left. These stems were branching prior to the blackout but it was the only one that died.

I have mostly hygros in the tank for the startup with macranda, dwarf hairgrass, HC, hm. rotala indica. I stockpiled macranda, rotala indica and hygro prior to the tank start up and I further added green hygro from Cem into the tank. I recently added DD, stargrass and ludwigia arculata. I also grow my macranda to sell to buy new aquarium things too so i just let them multiply and branch.

The livestock in the tank is 2 pearl gouramis, 2 flame, 1 neon, 1 SAE, 5 ottos, 1 bamboo shrimp. I recently added one molly to eat my duckweed.

This is the only algae problem I have in the tank currently. I had diatoms for a short while until I put in some ottos. I expected hair and thread algae but it didn't occur in this tank. I also had green dust algae that went away after the blackout. (thank you for that) The plants pearl pretty much a short while after the lights are on.

I recently pulled out a huge mass of HM to get room for some HC to grow in. I added a small amount of mulm that I recieved from Boun into my 4 inches of substrate but not the filter. After all the vaccing I did, i doubt much of it is left in the substrate.

The amount of nitrate that I was dosing amounted to only 1.75tsp per week which is 30.65 ppm Nitrate according to chucks calculator. I do 20 gallon water changes once a week mainly because I don't want to stop the filter and I belive it should be close enough after accounting 4 inches of turface and plants. I usually vac out 5 gallons worth of water when I am cleaning the substrate. 

I used two 500mg tablets of EM the first day and the green slime that reapeared after my last vac died off and whats left that is visible looks like it is dying after the first day. I doubt I am going to even have to do the full 7 days and I have close to 80 tablets left.


----------

