# Should I run a Bubble Curtain?



## epicfish (Sep 11, 2006)

If you like how it looks, use it. You don't _need_ it, though.


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## gringostar9 (Oct 11, 2010)

Your not going to want surface agitation with a planted tank, as it will let co2 escape the water easier. Most people (me included) with hob filters keep their water lvl higher so that we get less surface movement.


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## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

So, my fish do not need oxygen bubbles in the water? I'm assuming there's enough oxygen in the tank without injecting air bubbles? I guess I'll return the bubble wall to the store. Thank you for the info


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

gringostar9 said:


> Your not going to want surface agitation with a planted tank, as it will let co2 escape the water easier. Most people (me included) with hob filters keep their water lvl higher so that we get less surface movement.


Low Tech tanks don't normally use CO2. In that case you don't lose CO2 with surface agitation, you maintain normal atmospheric concentration of CO2 in the water much better. And, it helps keep oxygen in the water by increasing the water surface area. Plus, it adds more water circulation, which is almost always a good idea.


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## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Sorry Hoppy but now I'm confused, it don't take much LOL. 

Yes - run the bubble wall? 

Or

No - Don't run the bubble wall?

Hoppy - Would you consider my tank low light?

36" wide x 14" tall x 12"depth (front to back) 30 gallon running a 4' Shop light laying on top of my glass cover on top of the tank with 2 40w Cool White tubes. Not sure if you answered this question in another thread.

I'm not running CO2 & don't plan too.

I only have one Hornwort plant in my One Week Old Aquarium.

I've done some testing & have questions about the results listed below. Is there an ammonia test or are one of these considered Ammonia results? 

Tell me if I should list this question in another forum.

TEST 2	10/30/2010

NITRITE LEVEL	0
NITRATE LEVEL	0
HARDNESS LEVEL	75 SOFT
CHLORINE LEVEL	0
ALKALINITY LEVEL	80 MODERATE
PH LEVEL	7.2 ALKALINE


Thanks for your input. Brian


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## colinlp (Dec 26, 2009)

I think what Hoppy is saying is that because you don't run a CO2 set up your CO2 will be very low. So the bubble curtain will agitate the surface and keep the concentration of CO2 in equilibrium with the atmosphere, therefore low but constant levels along with elevated oxygen levels which is great for the fish. Whether you use the curtain or the return from your filter to achieve this is up to you I guess but the point is that surface agitation is not necessarily bad


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

without co2 there is no reason whatsoever not to run aeration.

It can only benefit the tank in maintaining equilibrium of atmospheric gasses in the water column. you also get the added benifit from the turnover of slightly increase offgassing of ammonia reducing the load on biological filtration marginally.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

The real question is whether it's helpful to aerate when you ARE using CO2. Lot's of different and ambiguous answers on that one.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

Dave-H said:


> The real question is whether it's helpful to aerate when you ARE using CO2. Lot's of different and ambiguous answers on that one.


if your willing to sacrifice CO2. here is my take on it. if your injecting co2 aeration will
1: help off gas co2 (-)
2:help off gas any other gasses that are over atmospheric content (+)
3:absorb any gaseous content from the atmosphere that is higher than the tanks (+\-)
4: off gas any other unstable compounds prone to changing to gaseous form from liquid form (such as ammonia) (+)
5: increased oxygen levels will facilitate aerobic filtration if otherwise oxygen is too low to allow maximum aerobic action. (+)
6: provide a form of water circulation. (+)

if the loss of CO2 doesn't outweigh the other positives to you then there is little reason not to. Me I am willing to keep high circulation and crank up my bubble count for the other positives. I'm not using a bubble wall but my spray bar provied great surface turnover.

and that is my opinion.


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

Prostock442 said:


> Sorry Hoppy but now I'm confused, it don't take much LOL.
> 
> Yes - run the bubble wall?
> 
> ...


You have low light. You can decide whether to use the bubble wall according to whether you like the looks of it or not, and whether you think you can spend the money better for something else.


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## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks Hoppy - I appreciate your time & knowledge on all my threads. As for cost on the bubble wall, it was rather inexpesive at $4.39 but I do plan on returning it and finding a smaller one. I saw an air stone for $1.95 that will work fine.


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## Diana (Jan 14, 2010)

A bubbler does not add oxygen bubbles to the water. 
The bubbles released by a bubble wand/stone/other pop at the surface. They are in the water for such a short time that close to none of the air molecules actually get into the water. Air in these things is atmospheric air: pretty close to 80% nitrogen and 20% oxygen, with only a trace of all sorts of other things. Including the same amount of CO2 that is in the air. 
If you have ever watched the bubbles from a Scuba diver (a real one, not the bubble activated toy) they might dive deep enough for the bubbles to get absorbed by the water. Won't happen in an aquarium, though!

In a non-planted tank:
The way that a bubble toy benefits an aquarium is by adding surface turbulence. More water surface in contact with the air means more gas exchange. More water movement from water rising with the air bubbles means the low oxygen/high CO2 water at the bottom of the tank (assume fish have removed the oxygen and given it CO2) means that low O2/high CO2 water will lose the CO2 and pick up O2 when it gets to the surface. Then the rising water will push this better water down into the lower areas where the fish will keep breathing and exchange the gasses over and over again. 
Especially when combined with a poor filter, it is easy to see that the added water movement is beneficial in a non-planted tank. This is the increase of O2 that happens when you use anything that makes more water movement. Power head, larger filter, bubble toy. 

Is this good for a planted tank? 

Good question. 
If there are no other questions, I am going to go hand out candy. 

OK, OK... more input... 

When the summer is really warm here, the added water circulation helped my tanks. They get so warm the O2 level was reduced, and the fish were piping. When I added a bubbler this added just enough water movement that the fish were OK. 
I did not need these this summer. Cooler than average, so the tanks did not heat up. 

In a moderate light tank without added CO2, there are several sources of CO2.
1) Water at the surface will pick up gases from the air. Water movement then circulates these gases around the tank. Big question as to how much water movement is best.
2) Fish respiration. More fish = more CO2. Fewer/smaller fish = less CO2. 
3) Plant respiration. Yes, plants respire. They use O2 at night, and release CO2. There are some plants that play weird tricks on this, and the details are interesting, but not part of this discussion (unless your tank is well stocked with these plants). 
4) Decomposition in the substrate. If there is stuff to decompose, and microorganisms to do it. In a new tank this is not well established. Within a month or so this is getting better established. 
5) Some plants use carbonates as a source of carbon. This has nothing to do with water movement, except that with no water movement the KH will get used up right next to the leaves, and diffusion is slow to replace it. Any water movement at all is enough to bring more carbonates close to the leaves. 

So... more water movement or less... that is the question... 

Items 2, 3 and 4 benefit from low water movement. The CO2 is already deep in the tank, and a small amount of water movement is enough to keep these circulating until the plants use the CO2. Too much water movement, and the CO2 rich water will contact the air and lose the CO2. 
Highly active plants (high light, fertilizer) will use up this source of CO2 in just a few hours. The build up from number 3 in the night is not enough, and the plants will remove all the CO2 from 1, 2 and 4 as it is generated. 
Moderately run tanks (perhaps yours) will be more in balance with the CO2 generated. Perhaps 1, 2 and 4 are enough sources of CO2 for the plants through the day, and the excess generated by 3 is a nice extra boost in the morning. 

Of course I realize I have still not answered the question. 
Here is a direct answer:
If your fish are piping, then your tank would benefit from the increased water movement that a bubble wand supplies. 
In most other conditions a bubble wand will probably permit too much CO2 to leave the tank, and the plants will suffer.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

I like the idea of having aeration at night, even though I run CO2 in the day. But, aren't there some airstones that don't need changing out every few months? And what, exactly, is a bubble curtain ?


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## gringostar9 (Oct 11, 2010)

Im interested in this topic... Trying to get my info right. Fish exhale CO2 so would it not be beneficial to do whatever one can to keep CO2 in the tank?


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## Hoppy (Dec 24, 2005)

The CO2 from fish exhalation is so small as to be trivial, unless you have the tank very much overstocked with fish. If your light level is low enough, the plants are growing slowly enough that their CO2 demand is small, and atmospheric CO2 can be all that is needed. Diana Walstad argues that CO2 produced by decomposition of organics in the substrate can add significant amounts of CO2 to the water, but that is with low light, and even then, she likes a split lighting period to allow the CO2 to build back up between lights-on times. That should tell you that the substrate CO2 is produced very slowly.

Plants add some CO2 to the water when the lights are off, but that, too, is so small an amount that it is trivial too.

In a high light tank oxygen from the plants is significant, but in low light tanks I suspect it is also trivial.


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## ReefkprZ (Aug 21, 2010)

Dave-H said:


> I like the idea of having aeration at night, even though I run CO2 in the day. But, aren't there some airstones that don't need changing out every few months? And what, exactly, is a bubble curtain ?


its basically a really long foam air stone and the bubbles make a long line looking like a curtain.


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## gringostar9 (Oct 11, 2010)

As always... Thanks for the info.


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## Dave-H (Jul 29, 2010)

Ahh yes.. does a curtain last longer than a regular airstone? I am annoyed by having to replace the airstones every x months!


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## Prostock442 (Oct 22, 2010)

This link shows you the bubble curtain I had. It measured 18" long, it was a bit over kill for my tank. I returned it to the store & bought a small Aqua Culture bubble stone. Brian

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Regent-Bubble-Curtain-Aqua-Tech-18-in/10313132


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## lauraleellbp (Feb 3, 2008)

How long an airstone lasts depends on how quickly it develops organic and chemical deposits. That's going to be different from tank to tank.


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