# 65g paludarium (converted aquaplantarium)



## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Here is the base of the false bottom, the two right sections will have lava rock rubble the far left one will remain empty to house the pump a heater and air stones to increase humidity.










Here is the top with the 2 planters in between will be a small river fed by a pump. 



















Bump: For the river I decided to use pond foam as I have never used it except to patch holes in my goldfish pond. I also foamed the front of the top and secured lave rock to hide the front of the first planter. This turned out great, the foam looks so much like the lava rock once you peel outer layer away. I read about a guy pressing sand into the foam while it is curing to give it a more textured look so I tried it out, worked pretty good. All and all I was very satisfied with the overall look.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Next I carved out the river and removed excess foam. I peeled this using my fingers and carved with a sharp knife. Peeling away the foam gives a better texture and make it look alot like the lava rock.



















Here is the pond area with the tube that feeds the river.










Bump: While the foam was curing I mixed up my clay using a electric drill with a paint mixer.  It is a mixture of redart clay, calcium and sodium bentonite, argonite sand, calcium carbonate, peat moss and milled sphagnum moss. If anyone want the ratio let me know.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Ok finished the initial build, hopefully now I can get more than 0 comments lol.

Here is the base with a access hole for the pump and heater (here's to hoping I never have to use it). Extra support was given in between sections holding the lava rock to prevent buckling. Here is the base in the tank with lava rock added.



















Here it is with the top on and the HMF in place. Also you can see the top access panel in the left corner, this is mainly to run airline and power chords, any maintenance to the heater and pump will be done thru the hole in the side of the base.



















Bump: Next I chose placement of the lava rock and driftwood.




























Bump: The lava rock is sitting on extra HMF I was left with to give extra support / height.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Next came applying the clay wall I have to say this was some of the most fun I have had ever in the hobby.

This method was popular in the dart frog community several years ago but has fallen out of favor in place of GS coco fiber backgrounds. I think mainly due to people not using the right clay mixture. So far so good although I need to monitor water quality to make sure its not affecting pH too much.



















Next I put some seed pods filled with sphagnum moss as well additional lava rock and cork bark into the wall. To do so I just pressed them right in and added additional clay around them, I chose very light lava rocks to do this. Some of lava rock and cork bark I used had moss slurry on it that I had started about a month before I added them to the clay.

Seed pods










Moss slurry on cork bark / lava rocks



















In clay wall


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## Noxxm (Apr 18, 2016)

I have not constructive feedback other than saying that this is probably one of the most interesting and exciting builds to watch on here! I love seeing it come together!


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Woah just found this thread. Really good job on the DIY stuff it looks great, especially with those driftwood brances. Can't wait to see this planted. Not familar with viv/paludarium techniques so can't really give feedback either. For the next update could you put a full tank shot please? [emoji16]


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Thank you for the kind words. Ha yeah when I was doing the build I had so much stuff on the floor I could not back up far enough to get a full tank shot and the tank is only 3' long lol. Sorry about the annoying 2 part shots. I plan on putting a video up on youtube showing the entire tank as well.


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## toadpher (May 25, 2015)

I never thought of using modeling clay. I'll have to look into using that for when I redo my 60g.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

toadpher said:


> I never thought of using modeling clay. I'll have to look into using that for when I redo my 60g.


If you do I suggest researching thoroughly. Since you seem to be a amphibian guy I would recommend joining dendroboard if you haven't done so already. A wealth of knowledge over there for vivs and paludariums.

After researching (or ask me I can tell you what I know) I say go for it. It was one of the most oddly satisfying moments I have had in the hobby.

Bump: Oh disclaimer about dendroboard, it will make you want to own Darts. That is my next project ha ha.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

thedudeabides said:


> Bump: Oh disclaimer about dendroboard, it will make you want to own Darts. That is my next project ha ha.


Yeah I was paroosing on there one day because I have had an interest in darts from really young, but the forum amplified them by a million. Especially when you see some of the amazing vivariums. Oh well something to aspire to do when I have the time and space.




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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> Yeah I was paroosing on there one day because I have had an interest in darts from really young, but the forum amplified them by a million. Especially when you see some of the amazing vivariums. Oh well something to aspire to do when I have the time and space.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I had some darts about 15 years ago and now realize I had no clue what I was doing. It is amazing how much has changed in that hobby.


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## bsantucci (Sep 30, 2013)

Nice start! I have a new exo terra 18x18x24 and I've been toying around with using just a cork mosaic and filling the gaps with clay. 

Dendroboard for sure will make you own darts haha. I set up my current azureus tank November of 14 but started searching the board about a 2 months ago. Ended up upgrading my lighting to 2 current satellite plus pros and installing a mist king system. 

I have a killer piece of wood for my next build. 

Looking forward to updates here. Do you have a journal on Dendroboard? 

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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Yeah I thought about the cork mosaic too. It seems that alot of people now using clay are doing just that.

No journal on there yet was planning on it shortly.


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## toadpher (May 25, 2015)

thedudeabides said:


> If you do I suggest researching thoroughly. Since you seem to be a amphibian guy I would recommend joining dendroboard if you haven't done so already. A wealth of knowledge over there for vivs and paludariums.
> 
> After researching (or ask me I can tell you what I know) I say go for it. It was one of the most oddly satisfying moments I have had in the hobby.
> 
> Bump: Oh disclaimer about dendroboard, it will make you want to own Darts. That is my next project ha ha.


I'm a member, but never really go on there. Definitely some amazing tanks on there! I definitely am trying to improve my tank and scapes, with every iteration. I love making stuff, so I think it will definitely be satisfying!

I like darts, but I don't think I'll ever own any. I like my fatty Bufo and Lithobates.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Here are pictures after planting.

Club Moss










Planted




























Water section sorry for crappy picture










Not sure of all plant names but land has various ferns, earth stars, air plants, club mosses and some trailing plants.

Water section has crypt. wendtii green and bronze, anubias barteri, anubias nana petite, narrow leaf java fern and dwarf sag


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

I also had some anubias nana petite growing emersed for some time that I put in.










Here is the tank with sand added and filled.



















After this I waited a few days then seeded the tank with 3 varieties of isopods (tropical white, Costa Rican dwarf purple, and powder blue) and 2 varieties of springtails (tropical pink and temperate white)

I notice that spring tails seem to like all the surface area with the lava rock also seem to like to hang out on the surface of the water.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

It looks sick!
You know what you're going to stock now?


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## TriconTech (Feb 27, 2016)

Love the development of this paludarium and can't wait to see it grow in.
Nice


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## Method (Feb 13, 2011)

This is awesome Dude! Your background looks way better than the original plantarium. Love the selection of terrestrial plants and can't wait until this grows in. Keep sending pics. 

You probably didn't need to add springtail cultures; my paludarium seemed to acquire them naturally. I have no idea what sort they are. They may have come in from outside (I add local moss) or from nursery plants. 

I think you've inspired me to change up my paludarium this summer. Your background seems way more appropriate for long term use than my polystyrene/drylock. 

I may have missed it... are you pumping water up to the top for your terrestrial plants?


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Method said:


> This is awesome Dude! Your background looks way better than the original plantarium. Love the selection of terrestrial plants and can't wait until this grows in. Keep sending pics.
> 
> You probably didn't need to add springtail cultures; my paludarium seemed to acquire them naturally. I have no idea what sort they are. They may have come in from outside (I add local moss) or from nursery plants.
> 
> ...


Thanks will keep updating as it grows in. For the time I am only misting by hand might upgrade this in the future, either with a drip wall (from what I read you have to give the clay a couple months before doing this) or a mist king system. I thought that with all the surface agitation the humidity would be a little higher than it is. Some of the plants are doing great in the clay others not so much so I am interested to see which ones take over.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> It looks sick!
> You know what you're going to stock now?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Vampire crabs for sure, most likely bicolor. 

Some ornamental shrimp deciding what color would look good against the black lava rock and light colored sand thinking sakura shrimp or OEBT shrimp. Amano shrimp. Maybe CPO crayfish.

Either keeping it strictly inverts and adding vampire shrimp or having the only species of fish be epiplatys annulatus. Was thinking about kuhli loaches but am leaning no due to the lava rock.

Also seeding the tank with scuds, daphnia, rams horn snails and black worms. Maybe MTS too. These along with the shrimp will act like a water cleaning crew while the springtails and pods are the land cleaning crew.

Open to suggestions though.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Added daphnia and scuds over the weekend. My snail population has exploded as well. Haven't seen the daphnia too much since I put them in but have not had too much time to observe. Hopefully they will establish in there.

Anyone keep daphnia in their tanks? Wondering how you do water changes and keep them from getting sucked up.

If my daphnia culture crashed I will probably just stick to scuds, I new it was a gamble to add them to a newly cycled aquarium.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Update: Couple of pics I took over the weekend.

Here is a better shot of the planted aquatic section.




























Here is some fissidens that popped up on some driftwood.










Bump: Here are some land shots.



















Added more leaf litter.










Rabbits foot fern



















Random scud pic


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Lookin very sweet


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## APynckel (Jun 2, 2016)

Can you catch a quick vid of things in motion?


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

APynckel said:


> Can you catch a quick vid of things in motion?


Yeah I will get something up soon.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Here is a link to a short video this was shortly after I had finished:

https://youtu.be/a0d4MZhYI4Q

I want to make one with some narration, might wait till I have some crabs in there to make it more exciting.


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## sanilps (Jun 26, 2016)

Hey . I saw the video . Awesome work. 
Why don't you think about a waterfall where the river starts ?
(instead of water springing from down below)

Nice scenery


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

sanilps said:


> Hey . I saw the video . Awesome work.
> Why don't you think about a waterfall where the river starts ?
> (instead of water springing from down below)
> 
> Nice scenery


I did think about doing it this way but was concerned about splash hitting the glass and keeping the substrate waterlogged. I still get a little of the latter even with this set up.

I might go back to this if I ever set it up to be a drip wall. For now I am leaving it alone and seeing how it grows in.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Springtail Island


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## Doogy262 (Aug 11, 2013)

Got to say this whole project is way to cool and I hate you for getting me thinking about duplicating..lol


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Doogy262 said:


> Got to say this whole project is way to cool and I hate you for getting me thinking about duplicating..lol


Ha, well thank you and I'm sorry?


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## ScubaSteve (Jun 30, 2012)

Awesome job!


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks.

Added some blackworms and MTS to the aquatic section. With the black worms came a good bit of flatworms that from what I'm reading should be harmless, any one know otherwise?


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Some updated photos. It cool to see how much the earth stars are changing in color since they are now in brighter lighting.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

You still gonna get Vampire Crabs?


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> You still gonna get Vampire Crabs?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's the plan, waiting for it to cool down a little here. I am having no luck finding captive bred ones so might have to get WC shipped. Not a fan of getting anything but captive bred so I might hold out a little longer. Luckily I am a patient person.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

thedudeabides said:


> That's the plan, waiting for it to cool down a little here. I am having no luck finding captive bred ones so might have to get WC shipped. Not a fan of getting anything but captive bred so I might hold out a little longer. Luckily I am a patient person.


That's fair might as well wait and not take this risks. Looking forward to seeing those guys in here they are so awesome. They would interact well with all the stuff you have in here as well.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

I broke down a nano tank I have had up for the better part of 3 years. Salvaged a anubias nana and some moss from it and added it's residents (6 Amano shrimp and a male aphyosemion striatum) to my tank.


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## MikeS (Apr 27, 2008)

This is amazing. Never even thought about doing something like this. Love the DIY


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

MikeS said:


> This is amazing. Never even thought about doing something like this. Love the DIY


Thanks, yeah I am doing more and more diy stuff. I find it to be very fun and rewarding.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Bump: Oh disclaimer about dendroboard, it will make you want to own Darts. That is my next project ha ha.[/QUOTE]


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

thedudeabides said:


> Bump: Oh disclaimer about dendroboard, it will make you want to own Darts. That is my next project ha ha.


I totally agree with that. I literally just scrolled through it one day and already wanted to own darts so badly.
Unfortunately I probably won't be able to do it till I'm much older and have my own place and stuff. But a boy can dream...



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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Finally ordered my crabs should be getting them next week


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

thedudeabides said:


> Finally ordered my crabs should be getting them next week


Yes!!!


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Ok got the crabs over the weekend. Starting with 6 of them. Have not seen them out much but did manage to snap a few shots.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

They look so sick! I heard they are supposed to be quite shy. Not sure if this behaviour is just for when they first move in or permanently.
I really am interested to see how this goes. I'm curious how they will play with the shrimp. Do they also munch on the springtails in the soil?


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> They look so sick! I heard they are supposed to be quite shy. Not sure if this behaviour is just for when they first move in or permanently.
> I really am interested to see how this goes. I'm curious how they will play with the shrimp. Do they also munch on the springtails in the soil?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I am hoping they'll be out more once they settle in. There are a lot of nooks and cranes for them to hide in.

I have not noticed any interactions with the shrimp, I would imagine the shrimp would be too fast for them to catch. I hear they will eat snails which I would be fine with and would be an easier meal for them.

As far as springtails they will definitely be eating them although I have not witnessed it yet. At this point my springtail populations have to be in the hundreds of thousands so I am not too worried about that.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Mmm shrimp are pretty nippy and shrimp like Amanos would be way too big for them to mess with I would think.
Ah I was just curious if the springtails offered a good continuous food source for them. I don't think you could even make a dent in a springtail population if you tried hahaha.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> Mmm shrimp are pretty nippy and shrimp like Amanos would be way too big for them to mess with I would think.
> Ah I was just curious if the springtails offered a good continuous food source for them. I don't think you could even make a dent in a springtail population if you tried hahaha.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I would like to eventually get some other shrimp in there maybe OEBT or a babaulti variety. Could see them going after the young but full grown ones most likely would not be on their radar.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Got some underwater shots of one of em.




























I have not seen an isopod since I put them in there months ago so I am probably the only one who will get excited by this photo.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Yup they definitely hunt down snails


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## Brian Rodgers (Oct 15, 2016)

Incredible build with photos and explanations. Thank you for taking the time to do so. I'll follow this with much enthusiasm.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

Pretty Cool! I wanted to do this with my 90G, but its so hard not to fill it up with water!  Takes things to a whole new level of complication that I am not sure I am ready for yet.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Thank you! While a paludarium does bring some unique challenges overcoming them is part of the fun.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

They are starting to get more bold, now I can find around 2 or 3 every time I look in the tank. Everything I have read says they are mostly terrestrial but I find they are in the water a lot, probably hunting down snails.

Here is one eating some flake.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Mucho jealous of this setup and the crabs. Everytime I look at the thread I become even more envious. [emoji24]


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Oh disclaimer about dendroboard said:


>


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Man those darts are so cool.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> Man those darts are so cool.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! F1 Robertus Tincs the blueish one is most likely female the other is hopefully male.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

thedudeabides said:


> Thanks! F1 Robertus Tincs the blueish one is most likely female the other is hopefully male.


What's the plan if/when they start to breed.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> What's the plan if/when they start to breed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably trade for more darts!


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

One eating flake underwater










2 together


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

No more Darts for a while


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Realized I haven't really put up any pics of the tanks growth.

Some moss growth on rocks and foam. Also club moss on clay wall is making a comeback.


























Bump: This club moss is awesome the tips sart as a orange/yellow color then turn red as it matures

















Tricolor fern showing a lot of red


















Anubias growing well emersed


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Full Tank. The Brazilian Pennywort is out of control. I have found this stuff impossible to kill.


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## GreenTerror (Dec 8, 2016)

Very nice! They have one of these tanks for sale at house of tropicals this makes me want to buy it! I'm assuming thats where you got yours.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

GreenTerror said:


> Very nice! They have one of these tanks for sale at house of tropicals this makes me want to buy it! I'm assuming thats where you got yours.


Actually no. That's where I first saw them but they were way out of my price range to buy new. I waited patiently till one came up on craigslist.

Matter of fact someone is selling a 85 gal on CL for $200 (tank only) but says it has a leak. I will admit I was tempted but my wife would probably murder me in my sleep if I brought a new tank home.


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## nyskiffie (Mar 23, 2016)

Are you feeding the darts FF? Or just having a small population and letting them live on the springs and isopods?


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

nyskiffie said:


> Are you feeding the darts FF? Or just having a small population and letting them live on the springs and isopods?


I could see where this would be confusing but I was just showing the darts as they are my newest distraction. They are not in this tank but in their own species specific (no mixing) terrariums and not in the paludarium. The paludarium does not have enough of a land section for darts and I would be afraid of them escaping.

But to answer the original question I do feed them FF but also have springtails and isopods as a clean up crew in their vivariums. I wish I got a video but my giant orange tincs were attempting (not successfully) to eat full grown giant orange isopods the other day.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Mushies


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

I am getting the itch to stock the water area. I want to keep the fish selection to micro fish. I originally wanted to do clown killies and still do, but have had trouble tracking some down. I also like the CPD's and also think scarlet badis are cool too. Then there is the part of me that want to get some freshwater pipefish. Might do pygmy corries or kuhli loaches for the bottom. 

As for inverts I was thinking that it would be cool to get some variety of orange eyed tiger shrimp to match the crabs glowing eyes. I also might get some CPO or vampire shrimp.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

How well do the crabs play with fish and shrimp?
I think any nano fish, but too nano, should be alright, maybe a Boraras species is what I would try. Boraras urophthalmoides?
The tigers would be nice. Just gotta keep in mind that the Vampire Shrimp are filter feeders.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> How well do the crabs play with fish and shrimp?
> I think any nano fish, but too nano, should be alright, maybe a Boraras species is what I would try. Boraras urophthalmoides?
> The tigers would be nice. Just gotta keep in mind that the Vampire Shrimp are filter feeders.
> 
> ...


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## KayakJimW (Aug 12, 2016)

Archer Fish!!! until they out grow the tank, then trade 'em to a LFS for more juveniles...









If you go with micro fish, all the ones you named are cool. Definitely like pygmy cories. Emerald Eye rasbora are cool too


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Yeah Archers would be cool but not for this setup.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

I think one of the air plants has a pup coming off it.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

This Isopod lives in this airplant, always comes out when I soak it.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Haven't updated in a while, been super busy. I am considering tearing this down and restarting. I am not getting the moss growth I was hoping for and I am thinking it might be that I did not add enough peat and milled sphagnum moss to my clay mix.

If I do go through with this I am probably just going to bite the bullet and drill the tank and put in a sump. To do this though I would need to accept in my mind that the glass may crack and I could ruin the tank, something I have not been able to do so far. I would most likely also put in an automated misting system so that if I forget to mist or am out of town I don't have to worry about it. I also might drop the water level a bit.

If I don't scrap it I am going to update the lighting and probably put in some jungle dawn LED's.

This tank was a blast putting together and was really fun after the set up and I have learned a ton by going through the motions. But not having access to the heater and pump with out tearing out some rocks is not the best set up, hence the whole sump idea.

Anyway any thoughts or ideas (or trying to talk me out of it ha ha) would be greatly appreciated. I'll get a few pics to show the progress so far when I get a chance to show what I am talking about.

Although I love this tank I feel like if I changed a few things with what I learned I could make it better. It is just a matter of going through with it but I feel like the longer I wait the less likely I am to actually do it.

Sorry for the book ha ha.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Bump...............Anyone got any advice for me?


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## ScubaSteve (Jun 30, 2012)

Do you have to do a full tear down to apply the things you've learned and think you can do better? Maybe a partial tear down? It would be a shame to tear down such a beautiful tank, but I can understand the need/want to start over.


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## Hobbes1911 (Mar 2, 2009)

Looks good! Couple of things I've learned from my similar projects:
- An automatic mister is one of those things that (unless you diligently hand mist and keep the humidity high) will make the moss growth better
- The crabs actually don't need much water 
- If you go with more water, hiding the heater in the water works well to control humidity through evaporation
- Lighting is key, and keeping a good spectrum high intensity light also is needed for moss growth. Moss likes more light than you think
- Not sure about the sump, can't say if the glass would crack, but with such a cool tank, I wouldn't risk it. If you're tearing down, I'd go with an exoterra next time for the terrarium aspect, and convert this tank to a full riparium or paludarium but centered on the significant water part
- If you're going with water/land separated paludarium in the future, know that your silicone seal will break eventually flooding the land part
- No waterfalls without algae!
- I'd incorporate tree fern panels into the walls rather than smear the clay with moss mix directly. Not only are there fern spores in the tree fern panels that will sprout eventually, but also can you add moss much easier. 
- Hygrolon is nice, not worth it in my opinion
- Think about building the project in such a way that you can always get to all hardware, and that it's removable. 
- Finally, understand that this is a time-limited set up and everything will eventually fail. It's just how it is sadly, and nothing can be done about it. 
- and finally on the crabs, bicolors are much tougher to keep/breed than red devils. Also, the devils will show themselves a lot more. I've bred/kept both and the red devils are hands down much more fun as animals

Sorry for the sermon. Keep it up!!


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

ScubaSteve said:


> Do you have to do a full tear down to apply the things you've learned and think you can do better? Maybe a partial tear down? It would be a shame to tear down such a beautiful tank, but I can understand the need/want to start over.


Yeah I have given it a lot of thought and the wife and I are talking about moving in the near future so I will probably live with what I have now and upgrade at that time. I knew when I started this tank that a sump would be best. I think I am going to upgrade the lighting for now and by the time I move and have to tear down this tank I will have had got enough use out of it that if I crack it trying to drill it I won't be as upset.

Bump:


Hobbes1911 said:


> Looks good! Couple of things I've learned from my similar projects:
> - An automatic mister is one of those things that (unless you diligently hand mist and keep the humidity high) will make the moss growth better
> - The crabs actually don't need much water
> - If you go with more water, hiding the heater in the water works well to control humidity through evaporation
> ...


You kidding me?!? No need to apologize thank you for all the info!

Yeah there really isn't that much info out there about geosesarma. I like the bi-color a lot more but I can get red devils locally so might consider them.

Do you know anything about the disco crabs? 

Also do you know if geosesarma can hybridize? Not that I want to just curious and can never get a straight answer.

I have the exo terras for my darts and this tank previously held 65 gallons and I don't think I want to go back to that kind of set up. Even if I change and go with a sump I will probably still have a false bottom and will hide the outflow somehow.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

OK so I decided to upgrade the lighting first on this to see if that helps. Going to see what kind of difference that makes and if moss growth isn't improving all that much I will install either a mister or a DIY fogger.

Here is the light I got, its a Tincman herps 22" LED with red and blue LED's along with the white. 










Here is a before without the light:










Here is the after:


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Looks pretty dang nice


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> Looks pretty dang nice
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! I was looking through this thread and realized how much everything other than the moss has grown in. If I could get the moss on board I would be a lot more happy with this tank. Moss is so frustrating!

I forgot to mention previously that I added 2 true SAE and 6 Badis badis. Hardly ever see the the Badis with all the rock work. I am definitely getting some killis at some point either Epiplatys annulatus or Epiplatys dageti monroviae the idea with the Killis is to pick off any fruit flies that make their way into the water area. The Aphyosemion striatum doesn't really mess with them. What I do is I feed out fruit flies for my darts over this tank so any that don't make it into the collection cup fall into the water of the tank. I am wondering if the annulatus will be big enough to eat the hydei or if the dageti will be too big and would go after shrimp when I get them.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

I understand that! You can become fixated on one problem and fail to appreciate everything else.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Here are some photos of the growth:

Overall land section:










Moss on lava rock










Ficus has exploded lately 










One place the moss seems to be doing well is poking up between fronds of club moss (might be hard to see)


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

How are the crabs doing?


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Honestly haven't seen them out too much lately. I think the heater I have in there might not be working and I haven't had the chance to check it out yet (another reason I want to go the sump route). I see one of them almost everyday the others have been hiding a lot. The tank is in my basement so it gets a little chilly down there.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

I heard they are pretty good hiders so it may just be that


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Yeah that could be I saw one in the water molting the other day. They like to hang out on the lip of the HMF behind the rocks. I have to shine a flashlight to see them in there but you can see their glowing eyes. I think if I redo the tank I will focus on not giving them as many gaps to hide in so they stay out in the open more.

I might just be imagining things but I am starting to see some moss growth after putting in the light (not sure if it was there before)


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## IamTracyLee (Mar 20, 2017)

I've been too engrossed in watching what you're doing to comment or even hit "LIKE." That's a good sign I would say. It's awesome, IMHO.

Bump: Me too!! I am fascinated by the whole thing and a bit jealous, too.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

IamTracyLee said:


> I've been too engrossed in watching what you're doing to comment or even hit "LIKE." That's a good sign I would say. It's awesome, IMHO.
> 
> Bump: Me too!! I am fascinated by the whole thing and a bit jealous, too.


Thank you very much......but you're never to engrossed to hit like :wink2:


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Got some pics of a molt I found in the water section. Thought it was cool so figured I would share.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Woah the crab molts are much cooler than shrimp molts. They actually retain colour, and a lot of the shape.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> Woah the crab molts are much cooler than shrimp molts. They actually retain colour, and a lot of the shape.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah at first I thought it was a dead crab but it was hollow and didn't smell.


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## BettaBettas (Aug 21, 2016)

neato


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

So I found a source for Clown Killies! WC from Sierra Leone. Should be coming in on Wednesday.

I also was at a LFS and came across pygmy sparkling gouramis and thought they were pretty cool, anyone here have any experience with them.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Got the Killies in the other week. They were much smaller than I was expecting and am afraid that the striatum might give them trouble (probably going to move him into his own tank). I have the clowns in a temporary tank I had lying around. Their color was pretty washed out when I got them but has been getting better since then.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Terrible pic I know. I will get some good ones once they are in the main tank.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Haven't posted in a while here is some of how its growing in.


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## forrestcook (Jan 25, 2008)

Looks beautiful. I'm curious, do you get fruit flies or other little bugs making homes there?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That is stunning... I'm in awe


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Lookin awesome!


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

forrestcook said:


> Looks beautiful. I'm curious, do you get fruit flies or other little bugs making homes there?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Actually I feed out my fruit fly cultures over this tank. Between the crabs and the fish they don't last too long.


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## firefiend (Sep 3, 2009)

Great thread! We just lost the last of our cobolt tincs a few months ago after nearly 8 years. We're tearing down the viv and doing a redesign. Good inspiration here.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

firefiend said:


> Great thread! We just lost the last of our cobolt tincs a few months ago after nearly 8 years. We're tearing down the viv and doing a redesign. Good inspiration here.


Sorry to hear that. Good luck on the new build.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Sad to say I found one of the crabs dead yesterday. This one had lost it's claw a while back and also one of the back legs so I assume it had been in a few scraps with some of the other crabs. This one was out with much more frequency than the other crabs so maybe it was driven out into the open in battles over territory (guessing prime territory is hidden within the rocks.) Upon closer inspection the bottom of it's remaining claw was missing as well, not sure if this happened while it was still alive or after but I would think if before it could not really eat or defend itself very well with zero good claws. 

Also noticed that the crab was a female, not sure if either gender is more prone to fight with this species so if anyone knows I would be interested. Really a bummer to find her like that, I figured with 6 crabs in a tank that size they would all get along but the evidence shows otherwise.


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## TheMakani (May 31, 2017)

shucks, sorry to hear about the crab
the tank looks amazing, got any new pics?


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

TheMakani said:


> shucks, sorry to hear about the crab
> the tank looks amazing, got any new pics?


Thanks, I have been slacking on maintenance and my algae scrapper got bent up so the water section is looking a little rough. Hoping I can give it a little TLC this weekend.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Might be hard to see in the photos but I have some species of moss that is growing on top of a mat of Riccia and doing quite well. Not sure what species it is cuz I literally threw all kinds of moss to the wall to see what sticks but I don't think it is an aquatic moss. I have java and xmas in there. Anyway thought it was pretty cool.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

I guess no one thought the moss growing on the riccia mat was cool? I was the only one? Anyway here are some pics to update the growth of the tank.




























I love how the roots of the pennywort cascade down the clay. Although I think I am done with scapes involving Brazilian Pennywort. 










Thinking about getting rid of the riccia mat to get some more light in the water section.










Pull this stuff out from under the club moss in there. It was literally crawing with isopods and springtails.


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Ooo it has filled in very nicely. Really like the plants that are cascading down.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That is just killer!! I had some terrestrial mosses in my dart frog vivarium an s it was crazy how different they were. I would touch the riccia. That moss growing on top is so cool. It looks so established and healthy. Just incredible. Living art.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks! Yeah club moss is awesome and way less finicky than true mosses. When I think back to how small the original planters were and how much growth I have gotten it amazes me. This tank has given me such great insights and ideas I can't wait till I do a 2.0 version! Waiting to see if we move within the next few years to do that.


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## Brian Rodgers (Oct 15, 2016)

Bump! How is it going with your tank? I would love an update. Thanks in advance


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Brian Rodgers said:


> Bump! How is it going with your tank? I would love an update. Thanks in advance


The latest photos are pretty recent. All and all the tank is going good. I am really getting the itch to change some things around but will probably wait to see if we decide to move any time soon


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## Brian Rodgers (Oct 15, 2016)

thedudeabides said:


> The latest photos are pretty recent. All and all the tank is going good. I am really getting the itch to change some things around but will probably wait to see if we decide to move any time soon


Oh yes. I guess I was on the first page or something when I replied. Your tank is looking so good.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Brian Rodgers said:


> Oh yes. I guess I was on the first page or something when I replied. Your tank is looking so good.


Thanks, yeah I really learned a lot with this one and feel my next will work out some of the kinks with this one


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## Brian Rodgers (Oct 15, 2016)

I can imagine you'll really shine. I am getting more and more encouraged every time I see these beautiful tanks. As inspiration from you as well as many others here I did several changes in my Low Tech system getting plants where they look more balanced. Seriously I do not yet have the eye to know what I want. Someday though, I'll start a biotope or Nano tank.
Thanks 
Brian


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Haven't updated in a while and just did a trim so figured I would. Here is a whole tank shot:










Here is one of the pup on the airplant:










When I did the trim I found some plants I totally forgot about, like this java fern growing terrestrially on the clay wall:










And this anubias was totally covered by other plants but still is looking good:










Also the moss of the lava rock and in the water is going well. This tells me it's not a lighting issue but either misting or the claywall itself that is not supporting the moss. I think it's probably the humidity as moss usually fails if I take it out and put it higher in the tank:


























Also crazy how much this ficus has taken off considering how small it was when it got started:


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Amazing stuff!


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

So I had part of the claywall on the far right side separate from the glass. Instead of risking it fall into the water I removed it by hand. It was completely dry. I sometimes turn on an electric heater in this room during the winter months. I had forgot about it one night and it ran the entire night. I think this might have dried it out. Regardless I think the top of the tank is too dry and will be taking measures to change this for my next build. 

This is getting me thinking of changing this tank up. I found a cyber Monday deal so I went ahead and got a mistking system. I am going to slowly amass the equipment I need to complete the new build. This time of year is always good for a gift card or 2.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

While trimming I noticed some interesting things going on with my terrestrial java fern. First this is a narrow leaf variety yet it busted out a trident leaf. I have had this particular plant for over five years and this is the first time it has done this:










Also Java Fern Seeds!


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## Opare (Sep 9, 2015)

Yeah my submerged narrow leaf spit out a few trident leaves every now and again


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Opare said:


> Yeah my submerged narrow leaf spit out a few trident leaves every now and again
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting I thought it might be because of it being terrestrial. These were buried under a lot of plants for a long time and are now getting more light, maybe thats what did it.......who knows?


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

That is just incredible... I expected brilliance from someone who can appreciate the genius that is Jeffrey Lebowski, but this is on another level.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

The Dude1 said:


> That is just incredible... I expected brilliance from someone who can appreciate the genius that is Jeffrey Lebowski, but this is on another level.


I don't know about you, but I take comfort in that


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## nel (Jan 23, 2016)

It's quite normal with older plants. My microsorium pteropus is shooting some trident leaves now and then too.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

nel said:


> It's quite normal with older plants. My microsorium pteropus is shooting some trident leaves now and then too.


Yeah I have had some java ferns get quite old and it's the first for me to do this. Pretty cool. I didn't notice at the time but one of the leaves with spores on the bottom has a little of this going on.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

Far out man.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

So I am going to be breaking down this tank and creating a new scape. I will definitely be doing a journal on the new build but I was curious if anyone would be interested in me documenting the tear down? I don't think many people do this but it could help shed some light as to what worked and what didn't with this particular build.


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

this is definitely a cool tank. I'd be interested.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

vanish said:


> this is definitely a cool tank. I'd be interested.


Hey well this will be just for you buddy! Ha Ha


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## vanish (Apr 21, 2014)

I'd like to do a huge paludarium, but I don't think DW would be up for it. I've been gathering glass panes from broken aquariums for a year.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

vanish said:


> I'd like to do a huge paludarium, but I don't think DW would be up for it. I've been gathering glass panes from broken aquariums for a year.


Nice always good to plan ahead. My plan is when I get tired of this tank and when my daughter is more grown to do a 48" X 24" X 48" paludarium with glass frogs up top and centipede knife fish or blind cave tetras in the water. This would be like 5 years out but a man can dream.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

So first tear down post. I peeled away some of the dry clay from the wall and attached to it was one of the rabbits foot ferns (which did not grow that great in the clay) that I wanted to salvage. The clay was hard as a rock so I did not want to try and pull it out at that point. I figured this would be a good time to experiment with re hydrating the clay. I put the small chunk (maybe a 2" cube) into a tub and added a little bit of water. It sat over night and in the morning had sucked all the water up like a sponge. From there I added more water. It must have reached its carrying capacity because there was still water left in the tub after some time. Although a tiny bit of clay was lost in the water the chunk kept its shape. 

What I gathered from this is that my humidity at the top of the tank was not high enough to kept the clay moist (which I already knew) and that if I had the patience I could re hydrate the clay on the wall. I am probably going to have a much smaller portion of clay wall in my next build and will definitely have automated misting, I am also wondering if I should also have a drip wall as well or if the misting will be enough.


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## venya (Apr 4, 2018)

Hi Sorry if my Qs sound silly- I love this style. But is this all under water or only part under water?
I am interested in making something like a vivarium (?with a land mass right?), but am not interested in adding any fishes etc. Can I achieve a balance? Am more into the plants rather than pets.
Also the foam you used in your DIY tank- Its super. Can you send me a picture of it? Still dont get what foam it is and what do you mean when you say it is curing?
Sorry am a total newbie in this area so need some help


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

venya said:


> Hi Sorry if my Qs sound silly- I love this style. But is this all under water or only part under water?
> I am interested in making something like a vivarium (?with a land mass right?), but am not interested in adding any fishes etc. Can I achieve a balance? Am more into the plants rather than pets.
> Also the foam you used in your DIY tank- Its super. Can you send me a picture of it? Still dont get what foam it is and what do you mean when you say it is curing?
> Sorry am a total newbie in this area so need some help


No problem. So this style is called a paludarium where you have a defined water and land section so only part is underwater. A vivarium is focusing on terrestrial plants and animals and if there is a water feature it is not as significant. You can most definitely create a paludarium that does not have animals. This actually opens up more options as to what you can do and what kinds of enclosures you can use. 

The foam used is called pond foam it is used in outdoor ponds to create waterfalls. Here is an example.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AQ0FV...t=&hvlocphy=9007714&hvtargid=pla-313874641819

It comes out of the can as a thick liquid and as it dries (cures) it changes into a solid.


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## The Dude1 (Jun 17, 2016)

I love how this has grown in.. I see that there is a top and a front pane that I'm assuming always stays closed to maintain humidity. Are those tillandsia a specific species? Mine shriveled in a high humidity setting... and then did poorly in a full light setting with daily spraying. If you were to install a Mistking system how often would you have it come on and for how long? Would you just position them near the top? Do emersed grown aquatic species need to remain lower near the water? I'd like to try a paludarium again, but I didn't have much luck last time. I plumbed in an ultrasonic humidifier and had it come on for 5 minutes twice a day, but some plants rotted and others dried out. Do you have any tips on placement? 
I've got some emersed Buce, anubias, java fern, flame, java, and vesicularia mini moss, echinodorus xingu, lobelia cardinalis, and I'd like some tillandsia, small bromeliad, and maybe a tiny orchid??? It took a very long time to transition and get these growing. I'm super nervous about placement. What would you suggest for the background wall?? Moss of some sort? I was even thinking about putting a powerhead in the water and using tubing to run it up to the top and making a "spraybar" as a drip wall??


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks I will answer as best I can



The Dude1 said:


> I love how this has grown in.. I see that there is a top and a front pane that I'm assuming always stays closed to maintain humidity.
> 
> *Unless I forget to.*
> 
> ...


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

venya said:


> Hi Sorry if my Qs sound silly- I love this style. But is this all under water or only part under water?


So I think I misread this previously. I am assuming you are asking if there is a division / barrier between the water and land sections. This uses a false bottom meaning that there is water underneath the land mass. There are advantages and disadvantages to this method. One advantage is it increases overall water volume and in my opinion it looks more natural than dividing the land water sections. The disadvantage in this particular set up is that it is difficult to get to the equipment under the land mass. Also shrimp and crabs can get back there (did not see that one coming). There is also the fear that there could be dead spots back there but I have not had any problems, maybe since I used airstones back there.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

So I actually got some time to myself the other day and started the break down of this tank. I started removing plants and chunks of the clay wall. The first thing I noticed was the amount of microfauna living in the clay wall. I found all 3 varieties of isopods I added in good numbers and removed them and put them in a terrarium I just recently built. I also found many springtails (hard to tell what species with them). I also discovered a tiny silver springtail population. This is not one I added so not sure if it hitchhiked on some plants or came from some moss I got from outside.

When removing the plants it was clear that they all had the strategy of growing out from the wall as far as possible. The earthstars the were in the wall were mostly still alive but had been completely covered over, they had also lost all their red coloration. I am going to be more careful in my selection of plants this time around and have all low growing species. 

When removing the clay wall the top portions were bone dry while lover on the wall it was still the same consistency as when I put it in there. At the beginning I thought this might happen but I had no idea how different the humidity levels would be in the bottom and top of the tank. I am planing to mist more frequently with the automated mister and aim it at the top of the tank with my next build.

I will add some pictures I took shortly.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Here are some pics.

Whole tank shot.









Some pics of the terrestrial java fern.

















Saw a crab for the first time in a while. He was hanging out in the flooded top part.


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Here is a link to the rebuild for this tank:

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/12-tank-journals/1281627-remake-65g-paludarium.html#post11126761


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## thedudeabides (Feb 29, 2012)

Tank is officially done.


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